S2 Episode 19: San Francisco Uneven Neighborhood Rise

Erica takes the lead in today's discussion with Richie as they explore the uneven development, growth, and excitement over San Francisco's rise. Mayor Lurie is a cheerlead for the city, yet many districts remain left behind. Excitement is here, yet not everyone benefits.

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Transcript

Really, San Francisco? Podcast

Episode 19: The City's Uneven Rise

Hi, this is Richie Greenberg here in the Studio B of  Really San Francisco, the podcast here, broadcasts pretty much weekly, and I have my lovely and talented co-host, Erica Sandberg, with me. How you doing, Erica?


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Erica Sandberg: I am doing well, thank you. We've got the last vestiges of Indian summer pouring into the city, so we're happy here.

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Richie Greenberg: Outside of that, we've got some problems.

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Richie Greenberg: Oh, we have problems. Well, we always like to talk about both good and bad, right? And not everything's bad, not everything's good in the city by the bay.

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Richie Greenberg: And, yeah, this week has been kind of weird, a rollercoaster of things happening. But, you know, there's something that you and I both agree on, and that has to do with how things are

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Richie Greenberg: dealt with, the situations, the safety, the good stuff, also, in the different, various neighborhoods of the city. And you researched this quite a bit in the last, you know, weeks, and you wrote about it in the last couple of days it got published.

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Richie Greenberg: So, that's gonna be our topic today, and how about you introduce the topic, Erica?

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Erica Sandberg: Absolutely, yeah, this is about a polarization that is really kind of intensifying here in the city.

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Erica Sandberg: We hear so many wonderful things that are happening, businesses that are opening, new leases on, commercial real estate, a really hot, market for

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Erica Sandberg: rentals and home purchasing. We have AI continuing to be… to be flooded into the… into the city, all kinds of wonderful… new restaurants, new bars. No, the problem is, and all of that is wonderful.

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Richie Greenberg: It's great, you know, it's… I will never, ever denigrate that, and I don't think that you would either, Richie. These are good things. That's correct, I would not. I mean, anything that's in a positive light, because of these years of everything just being looked at, this doom loop, right?

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Erica Sandberg: That's right.

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Richie Greenberg: Anything that brings up the city, the neighborhood, the morale is important.

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Erica Sandberg: Absolutely, and you know, and turning a, a…

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Erica Sandberg: Bad reputation around takes hard work. It really does. It is…

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Erica Sandberg: Quite a feat, and Daniel Lurie did achieve it in many ways. When I say that, as in, you hear the buzz, you hear… I hear it all the time. I hear it from Uber drivers. I can't hear it from Waymo drivers, they don't talk. But, people who come in from out of town, neighbors.

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Erica Sandberg: Business owners, I hear a lot of, it's getting better, it's getting better. I just did an interview with this wonderful founder of a company. She's saying, it's getting better. They just moved into bigger, a much, much bigger space, adding many more employees to their wonderful fintech company. You know, there are good things happening, but it really does stem from very much

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Erica Sandberg: from this… this good rah-rah excitement, things are happening kind of thing. So, I think that's a really…

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Richie Greenberg: And we see, we see this constantly now online, on social media, mostly being spearheaded by the mayor, Daniel Lurie, who is very much a social media influencer on his Instagram.

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Richie Greenberg: and, Twitter accounts, where he's constantly running around the city, going to cafes and other restaurants and small businesses, as you said, as being the cheerleader, rah-rah, to try and really increase the morale.

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Erica Sandberg: Right, and I will never say that that's a bad thing, because it's not. So, why is this even a topic outside of, yay, good things are happening, right? And the reason is, is because

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Erica Sandberg: That doesn't mean the, the, spike in,

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Erica Sandberg: our reputation, the good things that are happening, is impacting the city in equal ways. Now, now, I don't want anyone to start thinking that I am… Right, exactly, but I say this as in, it is uneven. It's a very uneven rise.

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Erica Sandberg: I do like to think about it as, like, maybe you're baking bread.

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Erica Sandberg: Right? Well, when you bake bread, you have to have that, that dough.

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Erica Sandberg: rise equally, or else you have a brick. It doesn't work.

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Richie Greenberg: So it needs to be, kneaded equally, it needs to be baked equally, and all the ingredients have to be equal.

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Erica Sandberg: Before that, it had to have the same level of warmth.

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Erica Sandberg: and care, maybe sometimes you have to turn it around so that one side gets more. You know, it does take attention, so you need an even rise. Now, that doesn't mean that the top should be squashed down to reach the bottom. Wipe the opposite.

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Erica Sandberg: What we're looking for right now is not this spread. The spread between good and bad is

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Erica Sandberg: It is, rising, or shall I say, widening, and the

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Erica Sandberg: I don't care what you're looking at, that's… that's a problem. That is a problem.

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Richie Greenberg: Now, some take that whole concept and they kind of mess it up, saying, well, you know, this is…

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Richie Greenberg: You're talking about capitalism, and how you have the haves and the have-nots, the rich and the poor, the… And I'm not talking about that! But people will hear that and automatically

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Richie Greenberg: Well, you know, you're talking about.

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Erica Sandberg: Those wicks are getting red.

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Richie Greenberg: Catcher, yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: No, no, I get that, and I'm not. And I'm… number… number one, I will not say the rich are getting richer, and that there needs… and that we have an income inequality issue. That's not what this is about. This is about an attention disparity. Attention.

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Erica Sandberg: I want people to understand this, this is key, which is, if the city is pouring its resources and its wonderful rah-rah attitude into the financial district, the marina, what… I don't care where it is, right, into other areas.

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Erica Sandberg: Some areas are being left behind. They don't have that same kind of attention. We aren't seeing those restaurants opening. We aren't seeing those bars flourishing and small business owners opening.

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Richie Greenberg: Across the whole city, yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: Correct, right. So, so this, this really is about attention. We have allowed

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Erica Sandberg: this is really kind of turning our backs on these areas. And, you know, you and I know what they are, but we can say it. It's the Tenderloin, the Civic Center area, Midmarket, South of Market, certain areas of the Mission District, the Bayview. They aren't…

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Erica Sandberg: Benefiting from the excitement that other areas are.

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Erica Sandberg: That's wrong. That's wrong. Where are their supervisors? Where is the money in terms of, let's help people,

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Erica Sandberg: Right. This is what we want. Right.

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Richie Greenberg: And just to help some people, in case they're not familiar, San Francisco is a very small city, it's 49 square miles, it's 7… 7 miles… 7 miles east-west, 7 miles north-south, a square, basically.

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Richie Greenberg: And it is divided up, into 11 pieces of a pie, 11 slices, sort of.

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Richie Greenberg: And, those are the supervisorial districts. That is the equivalent of a city council, so we have 11 city council people, 11 elected Board of Supervisor members that meet at City Hall, and each one has its own domain, and some of those districts are fairly safe and

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Richie Greenberg: and look great. Other areas are completely blighted and ignored. And that's sort of what we're talking about, is that all 11 sections of the city, all 11 supervisor districts, are not equally rising up.

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Erica Sandberg: Yes, yes. So I'm trying to illustrate this, because it really does need people to visualize it. If you're not here, or if you don't go to certain areas. I do want people to kind of take a moment and to consider what it's like to have some areas of the city

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Erica Sandberg: looking better and better, feeling better and better, getting more exciting, getting cleaner, getting, you know, more good things are happening, while other parts are getting worse. And then, given that.

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Erica Sandberg: Right? Given that vision, which is what you should have, because when I say the bad parts are getting worse, the drug dealing and drug activity in

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Erica Sandberg: certain parts of our city is so…

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Erica Sandberg: terrifyingly bad. It's dangerous, more dangerous now than it has been. It's uglier, more ugly than it has been. It's dirty, more dirty than it has been. And I could just keep going on, but the squalor and the blight is more intense.

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Richie Greenberg: Well, that's in the areas that we're talking about that are being…

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Erica Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: basically ignored, so…

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Erica Sandberg: That's right.

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Richie Greenberg: as you have neighboring districts, neighboring neighborhoods that are on the upswing, and people are talking about how the city is rising up, and Mayor Lurie says, let's go, you know, we're on the rise.

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Richie Greenberg: But right next door, potentially, you have a district that is the squalor, the blight, and all the drug addicts from

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Richie Greenberg: From dusk to dawn.

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Erica Sandberg: So, it feels very unseemly to celebrate when all the good things are happening, when you also know

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Erica Sandberg: that the opposite is happening in other areas. And these are, you know, these are places where people live. They work. These are low-income areas with many immigrants, many senior citizens, many families.

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Richie Greenberg: Children, children, even, yeah. Correct, children, and they're bombarded with the worst of the worst. So.

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Erica Sandberg: Again, I like a good visualization. This definitely has a let them eat cake, feeling. Oh, the people are upset, let… or people are starving, let them eat cake. The people are upset, let them come to these other areas. You know, it's just not okay. And so…

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Erica Sandberg: I would… what I'm hoping for is, let's continue with that sky rise. I love it. Let's keep on building, keep on accelerating, keep on doing all that great stuff. Keep that up. It's important.

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Erica Sandberg: But it's not… It doesn't mean that you ignore those areas that have not

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Erica Sandberg: accelerated. In fact, have gone backwards.

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Richie Greenberg: So, I've got a question for you, then. We see that there are certain activists and members of the Board of Supervisors, the City Council people, who say…

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Richie Greenberg: that, it's a problem that they are… Like…

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Richie Greenberg: creating a no-go zone, warehousing the addicts and the dealers only in certain neighborhoods. And it's part of what we keep saying over and over again, the Tenderloin, Soma, and Civic Center area, right?

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Richie Greenberg: that the…

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Richie Greenberg: one of the… one of the solutions to this, and this is, District 5 Supervisor, Bilal Mahmoud, right? He says, and with legislation, they want to spread around the homeless and drug addiction centers to other

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Richie Greenberg: To other districts, saying that.

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Erica Sandberg: Yes, that's.

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Richie Greenberg: pollution.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, that is precisely the opposite of what I am suggesting, and about, I think, what you also agree with, which is you don't bring an area down

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Erica Sandberg: to meet… the worst of the worst. You bring the bad up so that it…

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Erica Sandberg: At, you know, at the very least has some kind of

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Erica Sandberg: matching, going up, you're trending upwards. So, yeah, that plan is insane. It is backwards. It is absolutely backwards, and I will reject that every single time.

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Richie Greenberg: As would I, as should all San Franciscans. We should all say, this makes no sense at all, what you're trying to do. You're trying to now take this upward momentum that the city is riding on, and instead, just

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Richie Greenberg: put a monkey wrench in the… in the, in the system here and try and try and stop that. Do you have any, any thoughts, any idea, the motive? Why would Mahmoud and others who agree with him

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Richie Greenberg: on the Board of Supervisors say we should spread this problem elsewhere. Why would they do that?

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Erica Sandberg: Yes, well, well, yes, Richie, I do have an idea about that. I didn't speak to that question.

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Richie Greenberg: I'm just asking.

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Erica Sandberg: I think one of the things that I have unfortunately learned and had to accept is that most people in study politics are here

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Erica Sandberg: for a reason, and it has nothing to do with helping their community, representing their district, being good to their constituents. It's literally a ladder to the next step. Therefore, in their career. Therefore, if they think

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Erica Sandberg: if Bilal, Mahmoud believes that this is going to benefit him, Politically?

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Erica Sandberg: in the next layer where he wants to go in his career, this is why. And I do think that that is a huge motivation. I don't know him personally, he's not a friend of mine, so I will not be able to say, yeah, he's sincere, he's not sincere. I'm just looking at it from objective eyes.

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Richie Greenberg: But what on earth, how does that serve anyone by saying,

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Richie Greenberg: Because, and just for context, his neighborhood that he is the supervisor or city councilman for

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Richie Greenberg: Is one of the worst, or if not the worst, area

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Richie Greenberg: neighborhood district of San Francisco with the squalor, with the drug addicts, with the drug dealers. It's the worst. So, what is the benefit of him, exporting his problems?

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Erica Sandberg: Well, I hate to say it, and it breaks my heart to say this, but a lot of people do think very surfacely, right? It can seem like the right thing to do.

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Erica Sandberg: It's the shortcut.

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Erica Sandberg: Right? It's not…

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Richie Greenberg: What does it do? What does it do?

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Erica Sandberg: Well, I mean, hey, why should we have all the homeless people and the drug addicts and this type of thing? It appeals to a different type of nature and to a short-term thinking, right?

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Erica Sandberg: Personnel, the marinas should have them, Pacific Heights should have them, this type of thing. It does nothing to really solve the problem, but it can… it can seem like it does on the surface. So, look, band-aids are… band-aids are cheaper than chemo, okay?

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Erica Sandberg: Right?

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, that's interesting.

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Erica Sandberg: It's true, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: Clearly, as, I, I…

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Erica Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: speak from experience, yes. Now, I mean, just to put things in talking, like, to a two-year-old, as some would say.

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Richie Greenberg: If there are, let's just use numbers… if there's a thousand drug addicts and dealers in his neighborhood, in his district, and there's very few anywhere else, and if he says, okay, we need to now get them out of here and open other districts up to have

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Richie Greenberg: treatment centers, and we're gonna put 100 here, and 100 there, and 100 there. Then.

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Richie Greenberg: He has spread 1,000 down to a hundred all around. That's 900 or 1,000 elsewhere, so it looks like…

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Richie Greenberg: With only 100 left in his own district, it looks like he has solved the problem.

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Erica Sandberg: Sure. That's what I'm saying, right? It's not really a solution, it's a band-aid. Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: That's it. And he has now screwed over the rest of the city, screwed the rest of the neighborhood, screwed over the taxpayers, and the quality of life elsewhere. So he's just spread it around instead of solving the issue.

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Erica Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, so I think that…

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Erica Sandberg: Exactly.

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Richie Greenberg: Franciscans would… I think many understand all of this, but just in case you didn't, this is why you and I, Erica, we kind of help to get the understanding along, right?

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Erica Sandberg: Definitely, I try. And I'm an educated…

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Erica Sandberg: public is better than one that's not, and there are certain things being in, sadly, being deeply immersed into

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Erica Sandberg: The machinations of how the city functions, I want to share them!

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Erica Sandberg: I do! I want to share them, and I also want to… want people to get out there, use your feet, go out to these communities. If you don't live close by, or you never go, go!

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Erica Sandberg: You know, this is… don't believe me, necessarily. Don't believe you, even either, Richie, as much as I do believe you. We don't agree on everything, but at the very least, what we do is…

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Erica Sandberg: encourage… Going out and… Just not… not believing everything you read.

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Erica Sandberg: Or see online.

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Richie Greenberg: Very true, and just a little anecdote, you know, last night, I was with friends and family. We went to see a show, a concert, at the, Herbst theater over, it's in the Civic Center area, right?

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Richie Greenberg: War Memorial, right? Is that where it is? Right on Van Ness and McAllister. It's across the street from City Hall, basically. Ground floor, auditorium, and just as a little side note, that is the location that the…

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Richie Greenberg: founding charter of the United Nations was signed back in 1945, I think it was. So, it was not signed in Geneva or in New York, it was signed right here in San Francisco.

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Richie Greenberg: And you can go in there and you can see a mural, a painting of all of those who were there on hand back then. So, it was a wonderful African Mali group.

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Richie Greenberg: Amadou and Maryam, but Amadou passed away, so it was just his, the widow, Mariam, was there. And, great show, it was over right before 10pm, and then from there, we all got into our cars and took off.

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Richie Greenberg: And then, shortly after that, I saw on… online, that there was some incident that happened within a block from there. There's also dealers that are… and stabbings and shootings right within

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Richie Greenberg: A short walking distance of City Hall. And that is the problem, because at the same time last night, not only was this concert, this show going on, but there was also the symphony, and I think ballet as well. So there were a lot of people, a couple of thousand people at least, right in that area.

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Richie Greenberg: And this is the problem, because it's not all 100% safe, no matter what, the mayor says, no matter what the police department says. Things are going on still, it's just we're trying to

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Richie Greenberg: Go through our enjoyment of the day, of the evening, pretending and hoping, fingers crossed, that it doesn't wound up coming to us.

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Erica Sandberg: Sure. I mean, and I don't expect there's going to be perfection, and no city is completely safe. No community is completely safe. People are bonkers, and I don't… I don't expect it, but we… we do… we do expect the truth. And I… I think what's… what's nice is being able to do this podcast, is

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Erica Sandberg: I have zero reason to pretend one way or the other. You know, I… we all just… me, you, many, many people here, we just…

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Erica Sandberg: You know, we just… we want the truth, we want to be able to see real change. Real change, not fake change, real change. We want to be able to see it, and get excited, right? Be happy. Be happy that things are…

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Erica Sandberg: Are, improving across the city.

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Erica Sandberg: It doesn't have to be in equal increments. I'm not even saying that. I'm not saying that, you know, we get an 80% increase in one area, that means we have to have an 80% increase in all. No, I'm saying 80% up here? Fine. 5%, 10% here, give us something that we can hang on to. And, you know, just…

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Erica Sandberg: Let's leave it there. I think that it's just really…

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Erica Sandberg: It's just bare… just… it's disappointing, but I… I hope things will change. You know, there's… what… what is that wonderful Napoleon Bonaparte quote?

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Erica Sandberg: Hi, Joey.

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Erica Sandberg: I'm telling you, it's actually one of my very favorite historical figures to lean back into when I start to get.

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Richie Greenberg: Napoleon is your favorite Napoleon.

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Erica Sandberg: Yes, oh my gosh, I could just… I could quote many off, off the hand, but one here is, a leader is a dealer in hope. And, that is something that's really true. We want hope. And a good… a good leader gives good hope, so…

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Richie Greenberg: And just a final note also, just so people understand, listeners and viewers, Erica and I, you know, we don't… we're not, like, holed up at home.

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Richie Greenberg: We are out on the streets, we're going to gatherings, we're going to restaurants, and bars, and events, and, I do, like, a bakery!

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Richie Greenberg: and go, we're out all the time, right? We're out looking, we're on the streets, we're seeing things, and we're not just reporting from our home or from Studio B here in the Richmond District, right? I'm out doing things constantly, all the time, so we get to see with our own eyes, our own ears.

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Richie Greenberg: our own noses, we got to see what's happening in these neighborhoods.

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Erica Sandberg: Yes, definitely, definitely. And I… again, that's part of what we do, but I encourage everyone else to do the same. Get out there. This is a gorgeous city. Even when it's disgusting, it's gorgeous. I would rather be in the tenderloin than in the Sierras. Sorry, everyone, that's how it is. I happen to love it. So, on that note.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, go ahead.

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Erica Sandberg: I was gonna say, if you want to read the full op-ed that I did about this, because I do discuss this at length, go to The Voice of San Francisco. It's called… the story is called All In, and oh, excuse me, All Rise. All Rise.

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Richie Greenberg: All right, all right.

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Erica Sandberg: take a look for that, that would be great. And Richie, always good to see you!

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, always, always, and it's fun to… to bring our perspective here to the… to the world, because people from all over the world actually do watch our podcast and listen.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, alright.

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Erica Sandberg: Let's open this up to a quick question. If anybody wants to contact us, I'm always, easily found on X, Erica J. Sandberg, Richie, you are…

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Richie Greenberg: Greenberg Nation, and you can contact me that way as well.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah. So, so, reach out. I want to know, how do you feel about the widening gap between livability in our city, but also, what about your city? I'm curious to know about that, too.

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Richie Greenberg: That's right. If you're watching or want to comment from a different city, different state.

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Richie Greenberg: Alright, so, Erica, thank you. As usual, we had a great podcast episode, and look forward to the next topic very shortly. So, everybody, this is really San Francisco, and, have a great rest of the day.

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Erica Sandberg: Goodbye!

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Erica Sandberg: All right!