S3 E2 Matt Boschetto And Upper Great Highway Prop K

Richie and Erica are joined by special guest Matt Boschetto, who ran for San Francisco District 7 Supervisor (city council) and also co-led the effort to prevent permanent closure of the West Side's Upper Great Highway, a 2024 ballot measure known as Prop K. He discusses the background leading to that measure, the implications and the current lawsuit to overturn. 

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Transcript

Really, San Francisco? Podcast

Season 3 Episode 2

Matt Boschetto and the Great Highway Debate

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Erica Sandberg: Okay, welcome everybody to Really San Francisco, the show about what is going on in our dear, sweet, wild, wacky city. Politics, culture, business, you name it. And then here we are, we've got.

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Richie Greenberg: Of course, the co-host, my wonderful co-host, Reggie Greenberg. Hey, everybody.

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Erica Sandberg: You'll see him everywhere. And Matt Bruschetto. And Matt, you and I have sat in studio before, so it's really great

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Erica Sandberg: To see you here.

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Matt Boschetto: Great, thank you to… thank you for having me back, Erica. Thank you for having me, Richie. Excited.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: So today, this is the, is this the third weekend? Second… third weekend of January, believe it or not, 2026.

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Richie Greenberg: And, we have…

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Richie Greenberg: you know, there's no shortage of controversy and fun stuff going on here in San Francisco. It's a constant factory. Manufacturing all kinds of stuff that sometimes just doesn't get out of certain circles of the city, or certain people who, if you know, you know.

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Richie Greenberg: And, but also as things sometimes make national news, so that's what we love talking about here. And today, we are going to be talking a little bit more local, like,

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Richie Greenberg: hyper-local, if you want to call it, a topic that's been in the news for the last couple of years. And, Erica, what's today's topic going to be?

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Erica Sandberg: Well, it's the Great Highway. It's the Great Question of the Great Highway. So much has been going on with that. There was a proposition to close it. There was, a… the supervisor for that district who was ousted because of his,

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Erica Sandberg: actions with that proposition. There was the fury of the public. Then there was pushback from people like Senator Scott Weiner and,

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Erica Sandberg: other activists who want to have this long, beautiful stretch of the city turned into the only park that is in San Francisco. There is no other. There's no beach, there's no Golden Gate Park, there's nothing. So finally, they were able to

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Erica Sandberg: Take over a stretch of highway and transform it into the world's greatest, most important, Park.

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Richie Greenberg: About that. Once in a generation, I think, didn't they promote it that? They said, this is… we have to pass it… Really? Once in a generation.

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Erica Sandberg: Millions of people go out there every day.

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Richie Greenberg: Every day, millions.

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Erica Sandberg: In fact, it's the most popular park, I think, in the universe, so…

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Richie Greenberg: In the world, at least. Yeah, I know.

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Erica Sandberg: A lot of this is, of course, silly hyperbole, and this is what we're talking about today, which is there's so much pushback against it, because it's not… it just really has not been popular. And so, Matt, why don't you begin, then, with where you stand on this, and, you know, who you are, what your background is.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, thank you.

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Matt Boschetto: So, I live in District 7. I'm in Mara Loma Park. Family's been here 5 generations. I ran for… in Mara Loma Park, so we really love the west side, have, you know, been going to Ocean Beach since I was a kid with my family, so it's been a big part of our…

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Matt Boschetto: of our, you know, lives. It's always been… it's always been there, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Did you surf? Were you a surfer?

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Matt Boschetto: No, I wasn't. My dad… my dad was a big surfer, my uncle, especially when they were kids and stuff, but no, I never… I never got in. I'm a little squeamish about getting in the water. It's cold!

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Richie Greenberg: It's really cold up here.

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Matt Boschetto: I'm more… I'm more scared of what, what, what can go under your feet more than anything, but, so,

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Matt Boschetto: But yeah, I ran for supervisor in 2024, and so I was kind of front and center on a lot of issues, and that is when they put, you know, the proposition on the ballot, and it was just, frankly, so surprising, I think, to most people.

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Matt Boschetto: We have the compromise, which, you know, a lot of people weren't, you know, some folks weren't happy about, but for the most part, enjoyed a pretty good consensus amongst, Westside residents. I would go down there with my family on the weekends, but sort of always acknowledged that it was important traffic.

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Matt Boschetto: artery during the weekdays. I'd use it when we.

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Richie Greenberg: So the compromise, the compromise was what? Regarding what?

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Matt Boschetto: The compromise was it was open Monday through Friday, I think till noon Friday, which some people were upset about it, you know, being closed at noon on Friday instead of.

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Richie Greenberg: This is… we're talking about for cars, the flow of cars, it's open during the week for commuters, right?

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Matt Boschetto: Yes, yeah, and you know, it's 20,000 cars a day, I think, average, so it's not an insignificant amount, right? And then on the weekends, people can enjoy it as a park, right? So it would close from noon to noon on Friday and Monday morning, and people could enjoy it as a park. It was nice, especially,

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Matt Boschetto: you know, during the COVID times, right? Like, when it was fully closed, people loved it. And then,

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Matt Boschetto: So, it was, you know, it's… it's… the compromise was a good thing. I think… I think everybody kind of had the best of both worlds, right? Were people upset, of course, but again, enjoyed a consensus. So, it was just really surprising when it came out, right? And,

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Matt Boschetto: very political, I think, when you look at why Joel, the supervisor in Guardio, former supervisor in Guardio.

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Matt Boschetto: Recalled.

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Matt Boschetto: I mean, it was very political. I mean, it was put on the ballot at the last minute, right? It was, you know, loaded from the beginning.

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Matt Boschetto: you know, it was sort of the tyranny of the masses, right? They… they kind of use our institutions, our, you know, our functions of democracy to sort of push through a…

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Matt Boschetto: a really unpopular thing, you know, with the locals, and kind of stick their hands up and say, well, we allowed the public process through

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Matt Boschetto: letting it be a vote. So it was just kind of rife with… with, I think, like, you know.

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Matt Boschetto: Closed-door politics, you know, really last minute, lack of accountability, and, you know, if we kind of talk about the lawsuit later, actually, you know, sort of an end run around

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Matt Boschetto: current laws in California, which I think is actually probably the most troubling part, and kind of the biggest systemic issue

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Matt Boschetto: With San Francisco that this sort of reveals.

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Richie Greenberg: Now, also, deception. There's so much deception about what the upper-grade highway and the lower-grade highway and that stretch of pavement and what it is, what it isn't, what it really is.

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Richie Greenberg: But even they were promoting it, they were putting out literature, they were sending out flyers and mailers and putting on…

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Richie Greenberg: on social media that that particular stretch of the road is obsolete, it's not used anymore, it's falling apart, and they put images that were not even that stretch of the roadway. It was images from elsewhere that, yes, was under disrepair, but pretending that that was what that was.

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Richie Greenberg: And the messaging, as you said, that, we were kind of joking at the top of the, of the show that, you know, it's the most popular, the most popular, well-attended, park in the universe. Completely false statements, but the problem is because it's a political.

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Richie Greenberg: statement that the law allows you to say and embellish, and it's up to the counter, the other side, to now fight back against it. You can't, like, sue them and say, you lied. Maybe other countries, but not here.

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Richie Greenberg: You know, but it was outright deception and lies.

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Matt Boschetto: No doubt. And I think, like, that was part of the initial opposition, right? It's…

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Matt Boschetto: like, there wasn't really any study, you know, certainly not an EIR, right? That's part of the lawsuit that's going on currently.

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Richie Greenberg: what's ER? Is it environment?

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Matt Boschetto: An environmental impact review, right? And I think within that, you'd have a lot more studying of, you know, things like the sand abatement and all that. I mean, that's a great example of sort of the misinformation that was just really unfounded. Oh, it would save money. I think there's data this year to show that we're spending a lot more money on sand abatement with the park.

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Richie Greenberg: And that's

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Richie Greenberg: That's because this dual roadway is right along the, not only the water's edge, but it's right up against the, the sand of the beach, so…

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Richie Greenberg: It's been a problem forever, right? Forever time that wind, natural wind, just pushes sand out onto the pavement, and it needs to be taken away.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: Matt, I have a question for you. Were you at that DCCC meeting, when people from the local area came out, and they literally begged the Democratic Party to back them, to say, please don't close this, please don't vote for

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Erica Sandberg: Proposition K. And they had person after person of local residents

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Erica Sandberg: who were workers, parents, you know, you name it. A lot of them were of Asian descent, and some of them were in tears.

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Erica Sandberg: And they took the mic, and they each made statements, and begged, begged for support to keep it open. And for me, that was a real pivotal moment, to watch each person come up, make cogent arguments, passionate, true.

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Erica Sandberg: And then it seemed like I watched the people up on…

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Erica Sandberg: on the stage essentially turn away. And it was really shocking and disturbing, and… you know, every once in a while, you do have a political epiphany. And for me, that was… that was a…

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Erica Sandberg: holy cow, who are… who are you representing here? Were you… did you happen to be there, or are you familiar with.

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Matt Boschetto: I think I was. I mean, that was the no-on-K when they… when.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah.

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Matt Boschetto: to get no 1K endorsement. I mean, the room was packed, right?

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Erica Sandberg: We had to limit the comments to, like, a minute. Right.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, that was, really interesting, and I mean, to be fair, I think being on the inside and, you know, really understanding the fight, I walked in that room knowing we were gonna lose because, you know, the DCCC,

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Matt Boschetto: even though they kind of claim to be a moderate board, they are very extreme on some issues. You know, when you look at this current board, when you look at housing, when you look at transit issues, I mean, they're essentially, you know, a board of urbanists, right? You know, who have a very,

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Matt Boschetto: A very, sort of.

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Matt Boschetto: pro… I guess, you know, I want to say, like, pro-park, anti-car, you know, pro-public transit, which, who's not… not… who's against transit, right? It's kind of… it's kind of crazy, right? But,

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Matt Boschetto: you know, that was… it's a… you know, that board was, you know, already skewed. A lot of the special interests that drove

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Matt Boschetto: you know, PropCade to begin with, really drives a lot of the, board, you know, the slate that got on that board, right? So I really question whether they're true moderates, in a lot of ways. I question their seriousness on, you know, some… not some, obviously, like.

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Richie Greenberg: There are, there are some…

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Matt Boschetto: is great on public safety, but I question some of their seriousness about these other issues that are really important to us, right?

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Richie Greenberg: And there are some out there that just say there's no such thing as a moderate Democrat, and so that's… but just to reiterate also, we're talking about the DCCC, that's the Democratic County Central Committee. That's basically the leadership of the Democratic Party for the city of San Francisco.

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Erica Sandberg: I want… my question, so there's a big overall question, is what's the ultimate motivation? I really… sometimes I have to step back and think, well, what is it that you really want? Why close that highway? Why push

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Erica Sandberg: that the people clearly don't want, and that actually ended up with a supervisor getting the boot. Why?

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Richie Greenberg: I think it was a test. I think it was looking at the template to see if they could repeat this elsewhere around the city. That's my…

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, and I agree with that, Richie. I think that, again, when you look at the tech, like, the arguments of the lawsuit, kind of what we saw and what we believed, you know, San Francisco is so…

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Matt Boschetto: fearful about, you know, what Washington's doing, and what they're trying to do, and squeeze by and circumnavigate the laws, but it's clear that happened here, right? I mean, our supervisors are doing it, right? Which is something that's really scary, right? When they can have an end run around,

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Matt Boschetto: you know, state law and regulations in a proper way, procedural way to do things, right? And I think, you know, these real evangelists, around this, you know, it's a really kind of religious, zealot.

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Matt Boschetto: Like, cult, right?

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Erica Sandberg: Hoah!

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Matt Boschetto: They have a break a few eggs, make an omelette sort of mentality, right? They don't… I think they'd be happy to use a loophole if that loophole existed, right? And where, you know, somebody who cares about good governance

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Matt Boschetto: wholly would see a loophole, and no matter if they can use it to their benefit, would want it closed, right? And so…

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Matt Boschetto: you know, I think to your point, Erica, like, the question, where does it come from? It's really…

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Matt Boschetto: like, the top umbrella, I would say, was climate ideology, right?

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Matt Boschetto: you know, and through there, it's kind of this ideology of urbanism that, you know, being in denser places, not being in cars, taking public transit, is actually what's, you know, gonna drive a better situation with the climate, right? And that stems out to kind of, you know, hardcore Yimbyism.

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Matt Boschetto: and, you know, kind of antique car, transit, pro-transit views, right?

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Matt Boschetto: Which is… which is… again, like, I think you can argue that San Francisco, you know, needs more housing, needs reform on its housing process, needs to get out of the way, you know,

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Matt Boschetto: public transit's a civic good, right? The second densest city in the United States should have a very, very good public transit. Should be, you know, the standard for, you know, the rest of the public transit systems, which it obviously is not,

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Matt Boschetto: We need to, do another parcel tax to fund it. But,

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Matt Boschetto: you know, it's… they do it in a way that's, I guess, just so…

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Matt Boschetto: religiously, idealistic that, you know, they end up, again, like, it's more of a stick mentality than a carrot, so they're happy to close a road, right? They're happy to, kind of do things that force people out of their cars, rather than incentivizing them to get out of their cars.

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Erica Sandberg: I think that's so important, and by the way, I think that

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Erica Sandberg: this… this podcast, Really, San Francisco, is clearly local, but

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Erica Sandberg: it really does… I think it's sort of a word of warning to everybody in the United States. Pay close attention

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Erica Sandberg: to the people who are governing your local area, because if you don't, they can… they can… they will take advantage of every, right, of every situation if they… which sounds really terrible, I'm not being anti-government, it's not that. It's just pay attention.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: It's shocking what can happen when you don't.

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Matt Boschetto: Well, you know, we're seeking an appeal for the lawsuit. It was shot down.

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Richie Greenberg: So, can we, can we actually back up for just a minute? Go ahead. For people who weren't, paying absolute close attention to this whole, the saga from the beginning?

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Richie Greenberg: You have a road, the, there was a ballot measure put on to the voters of the entire city to close that specific stretch of a road.

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Richie Greenberg: A lot of pushback, but the pushback did not succeed. So, what wound up happening is the road, that road, the Upper Grade Highway, in a section of, the city on the west side, was permanently closed to private cars.

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Erica Sandberg: Ostensibly to make it into a park.

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Richie Greenberg: They claim a park, but they're required to keep the asphalt, required to keep the pavement. So, that passed, that… the whole uproar, but then a lawsuit came out, and that's where you can talk a little bit about that, Matt. A lawsuit was filed to, to undo that…

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Richie Greenberg: ballot measure. And so, can you let, viewers and listeners know what were the basics? Why was it being, looked to be, on what grounds?

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, well, when you… when we took a closer look at it, and sadly this kind of came, you know, we were so focused on winning the campaign, we weren't so focused on, sort of.

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Matt Boschetto: how it got on the ballot in the first place, right? And when we took a closer look to that, kind of as we, you know, pulled our heads up after the campaigns.

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Matt Boschetto: It just… it just became clear that it… it…

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Matt Boschetto: you know, we had a really good… there's really good reasons to suggest it wasn't legally on the ballot, right? It wasn't legally compliant, and therefore not a legal ballot measure. It shouldn't have been on the ballot. And the first…

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Matt Boschetto: you know, I'd say kind of the first reasons and, you know, where we're still kind of leaning and believe we have a good argument around

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Matt Boschetto: is that the state has plenary authority over the closure of roads, and it doesn't leave it up to citizens' initiatives to… to, or, you know, ballot measures where citizens can choose to close them or not. And that's because, you know, if you sort of think,

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Matt Boschetto: You know, imagine if… We shut down, you know, Marina Boulevard, right? Imagine if, you know.

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Richie Greenberg: Haze.

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Matt Boschetto: like.

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Richie Greenberg: Yep. Embarcadilly.

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Matt Boschetto: LA decided to close Santa Monica Boulevard, right?

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Richie Greenberg: You know, Rhodes, you know, it's like…

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Matt Boschetto: roads are really important for the flow of different municipalities, not just the municipality they're in, right? The flow of goods is really important for commerce. People and goods is really important for commerce. So, you know, it is a…

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Matt Boschetto: it is… you can see from the state's interest that they don't want people to just arbitrarily close things that are kind of, you know, very important for the functioning of, you know, the state, right? And the communities within the state. So, that's sort of the first reason.

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Matt Boschetto: The second reason is that…

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Matt Boschetto: there should have been an EIR, after…

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Richie Greenberg: The Environmental Impact Report.

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Matt Boschetto: as I said before, which is part of, you know, California CEQA law.

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Matt Boschetto: And what's… that's kind of where it gets really interesting. I mean, the judge shot down both arguments. We… but we… what's interesting about the EIR… we do think we have good arguments, that's why we're appealing them and taking it to another…

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Richie Greenberg: So that's the status now, we repeat.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, yes, we are, we are seeking an appeal. We have some very good counsel that will, you know, publicly speak about later down the road, but we're working on putting that all in place right now.

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Matt Boschetto: And… but the interesting thing about the EIR argument was that the judge said that for supervisors.

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Matt Boschetto: putting an initiative on the ballot does not constitute an official action by the Board of Supervisors?

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Erica Sandberg: That's odd.

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Richie Greenberg: That doesn't sound right.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, which is interesting, because, like.

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Richie Greenberg: That's the way it's all… it's all done that way, if it's… if it's…

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Matt Boschetto: Supervisors. We're…

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Erica Sandberg: Elgar.

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Matt Boschetto: Myrna Melgaard, Joel Languardio, Dean Preston.

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Richie Greenberg: Raphael Mandelman.

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Matt Boschetto: Raphael Mandelman, and I want to say Matt Dorsey.

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Erica Sandberg: Hmm.

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Richie Greenberg: We're the ones who put it on. Inside.

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Matt Boschetto: And so what was… like, you know, if we had one more person on this podcast, we couldn't decide to go put a ballot measure on, right? So it's like, those four people have a special capacity, and that capacity is written under the San Francisco Charter. So to say that, you know, them proposing the closure of the Gray Highway does not constitute a

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Matt Boschetto: project under state law is kind of shocking, right? And, you know, subsequently doesn't need EIR. So.

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Matt Boschetto: What's kind of been, I think, exposed is that there is a runaround CEQA, through this avenue, if this is the precedent, that.

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Richie Greenberg: And CEQA is Californian.

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Matt Boschetto: California Environmental Quality Act. Yeah, and I think a lot of people are… you have fierce defenders of CEQA, you have fierce enemies of CEQA. It's like, I'm… I'm not…

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Matt Boschetto: I gotta be honest, I'm not, like, a huge defender, I'm not a huge… definitely not a huge opponent of it, but it's like…

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Matt Boschetto: The law is the law.

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Richie Greenberg: Right? And it's, again, like, it concerns me that.

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Matt Boschetto: There is this, you know, end run around it, and… It's not…

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Matt Boschetto: good. We need to close those, and we… frankly, I don't trust the San Francisco Board of Supervisors.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, at this point…

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Matt Boschetto: Not to abuse it, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Quick question, does this… I get the feeling that the judge that ruled in this case, that he thinks that, the state

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Richie Greenberg: and it's motor vehicle codes and all laws like that. They, they don't…

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Richie Greenberg: Have jurisdiction over city or county roads.

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Richie Greenberg: Basically, and that you could put a ballot measure to close if you wanted, and the state doesn't have the jurisdiction.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, and that was… that was sort of his argument. Yeah, that was his argument that, you know, because it was a full…

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Matt Boschetto: closure, right? And then, you know, he did cite a lot of other… of the data, right? Of the data which, you know, unfortunately, I don't think is skewed. It's their… their city… the same studies that, you know, by the MTA, by different groups in the cities that the proponents were citing, right? And,

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Matt Boschetto: So, you know, the arguments that it's, you know, not a valid road anymore, it's not going to affect traffic, right? Those all kind of really informed, I think, the judge's decision on that, right? And then the other fact that

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Matt Boschetto: one of our other arguments was that if you close a road, you have to close it fully, but it still has access to cars, namely city cars, right? It always will be a road, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Right. Maintenance and emergency.

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Matt Boschetto: vehicles. Yeah, and you know, his argument, which I think was… is… is, good, right? And then the city's argument was that, look, any park

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Matt Boschetto: need city vehicles to go on it, right? So, like, we never fully closed, you know, like, a road that would be used as a park will never be fully closed, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Like in Golden Gate Park.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, okay.

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Richie Greenberg: Drive, yeah.

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Matt Boschetto: And so,

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Matt Boschetto: I mean, it is, like, it's a very deep and nuanced legal argument that I think, I do think it's…

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Matt Boschetto: the state has a lot more interest in ruling in our direction than a city judge would in the city's direction, if that makes sense. I think the, you know, I at first was upset with

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Matt Boschetto: how things went, but the more I looked at it, I do think the judge, you know, did a fair job, right? He was…

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Matt Boschetto: truly engaging with us authentically. But it's just a hard case to win in a sit, right? When a judge is kind of looking at it

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Matt Boschetto: from a city perspective, right? It's much more of a, I think, you know, looking at the total interest of the state, and so that's why we feel like we're going to have a better shot when we bring it up to that level. And I do think the EIR, you know, it's very clear, like, when you look at that argument of what defines a public agency.

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Matt Boschetto: It's… I think that's… we're clearly on the right side of that, and it's something that kind of morally needs to be, addressed. It's not just about the Gray Highway anymore. I mean, it never was for me, but it's clear now it's not just about the Gray Highway.

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Erica Sandberg: Exactly, I mean, this is such a multifaceted discussion, or topic, because you're looking at a lot of different ideologic, philosophies going on, right? So you're talking about, you mentioned, the, getting rid of cars, or reducing

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Erica Sandberg: personal driving, and having kind of a more transit-friendly city. We already have a transit-friendly city, by the way. We have pretty good transit… it can always be improved, but there really is this movement toward,

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Erica Sandberg: reducing

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Erica Sandberg: private vehicles, right? Yeah. So that's one huge motivation, is, like, kind of chipping away at the, making it easy for people to actually drive. So that's one. The other issue, of course, is development. There's been… a lot of people have eyed the area around

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Erica Sandberg: around the Great Highway, the Upper Great Highway, as, you know, potentially we're gonna build up, we're gonna densify it, we're going to, you know, get rid of all these pesky single-family homes with yards and, you know, that type of thing, because it is almost morally offensive to people who

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Erica Sandberg: don't ascribe to that. They want big, fat, dense, whether it's Miami-style housing, or Singapore, or whatever you want to call.

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Richie Greenberg: Hong Kong. Hong Kong, yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, sure, right. So you have that, and then you have,

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Erica Sandberg: equity. You have… you have a lot of different issues that sort of came together all at once to create this disaster of public opinion, because now you have a lot of angry people.

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Matt Boschetto: Right?

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Richie Greenberg: On both sides.

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Erica Sandberg: on both sides, but primarily from residents, right, who just say, wait, how did this all happen? Well, that's how it happened, because it's different… sort of a merging of different philosophies.

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Richie Greenberg: And again, it was…

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Matt Boschetto: I mean.

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Richie Greenberg: People on the east side, voters on the east side of the city, were the ones that were more,

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Richie Greenberg: into, let's just make another park. Another park? That's great, we're gonna vote yes and make another park, and everyone that was actually in the area, us included, me included, and our neighborhoods on the west side were like, no, it's not really creating a park, and we used that road. So it became an East versus West ideology fight.

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Erica Sandberg: Which is really funny, because I have a dear friend who lives in North Beach, and she was a huge advocate for closing the Upper Great Highway. I love… she kept saying, I love parks, parks are great. I'm like, okay, fabulous. She lives in North Beach, and there was a proposition to close off Grant, and I think parts of Columbus, but also around

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Erica Sandberg: Around the church.

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Richie Greenberg: Washington.

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Erica Sandberg: Where? Right. And she was vehemently opposed to it.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: It's just like… and I understand, like, we… are we naturally hypocritical? Is this something that we just sort of have to think…

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Richie Greenberg: NIMBY, that's a NIMBY, not in my… you can't close this in my backyard. There you go. NIMBY, in a sense, in a sense.

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Erica Sandberg: It's just sort of an interesting way of looking at it, which is how introspective are we really about our own ideas? So, what are your thoughts on that, Matt?

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Matt Boschetto: Well, yeah, I think it's interesting. I mean, with the housing stuff, I remember when we were doing Noon K, we kind of… it was such a…

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Matt Boschetto: Such a strong…

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Matt Boschetto: like, opinion of a lot of the people who were supporting the opposition to the closure, and…

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Matt Boschetto: you know, we… I did… I had a lot of understanding for it. I had the same fear, but I really kind of suppressed the message as we were going, because I… you know, you're just going to get labeled like a conspiracy theorist, right?

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Matt Boschetto: But, you know, now that we have a, you know, the Safeway, like, it's clear that that's what's happening. Look at the Safeway and the marina, right? We have, you know, on West Portal, the, 65, just right here on West Portal, we have, like, an 80-foot, 65-unit, building, 9 stories, so it's probably higher than 80 feet, actually.

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Matt Boschetto: I mean…

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Matt Boschetto: you know, and they're both using state programs, they're not using the local program, right? So it's kind of, you know, when you look at sort of all this legislation that's being pushed on the west side, which happens to be in Northside, which happens to be the single-family

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Matt Boschetto: zone, you know, zone single-family areas between, you know, where you need a car, it's like there's less transit connectivity, you're gonna need your car. I mean, you look at it, it's like the Great Highway.

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Matt Boschetto: The upzoning.

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Matt Boschetto: the parcel tax to save Muni. I mean, single-family homeowners on the west side are essentially, like, under siege, right?

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Erica Sandberg: They are.

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Richie Greenberg: Yes, I mean.

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Matt Boschetto: by the San Francisco legislators.

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Richie Greenberg: That's.

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Matt Boschetto: legislators, and it's… it's pretty, like, it's pretty crazy to see, you know, this… and a lot of it's to your point, for the sake of equity, which is, like, you know, maybe makes… maybe, like, you know, a little thought-provoking for somebody like me, right, whose family is, you know, white and west side, from the West Side, right?

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Matt Boschetto: I know a litany of Chinese-American families that immigrated, started in Chinatown in the SRO, right? And within a generation or two generations, had moved out and built a home, you know, owned a home and built a life in San Francisco on the west side.

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Richie Greenberg: And so, like, to kind of say that.

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Matt Boschetto: you know, that doesn't… you know, it's just kind of all people who've, you know, benefited from, you know, historical inequities, and therefore, we're going to just really kind of put the thumb down is… is just not… it's just not accurate, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah. Completely inaccurate.

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Erica Sandberg: It really isn't. And also, a lot of these tall buildings that people do… are really pushing for.

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Erica Sandberg: they're not a… they're not very appealing to… to everybody, right? You even have, like, south of Market, in fact, I think the building that Matt Dorsey, Supervisor Matt Dorsey, lives in, is, I believe, 30-50% empty. It's a beautiful building, it really is. It's a gorgeous complex with lots of amenities and… but…

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Erica Sandberg: It's just…

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Erica Sandberg: it's not always attractive to the people that they say that it's going to be attractive to. Families don't necessarily want to move into an apartment building.

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Richie Greenberg: Especially if there's no parking.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: Garage or parking, too, but…

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Erica Sandberg: You need a mix, you need a mix.

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Richie Greenberg: You do, you do.

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Erica Sandberg: along… along Van Ness, which is, obviously a very long street. There's so much opportunity to build up, build tall. You can definitely do it there. You're not going to get much pushback, because it already is… kind of has that same feel, right? And it can work. You can increase our density by focusing on the areas

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Erica Sandberg: where…

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Richie Greenberg: It makes sense. You know the.

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Matt Boschetto: the new… the new building where the old McDonald's was on Stanion in Haight? Yes.

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Matt Boschetto: you know, and that has zero parking. I think it's, like, 150 units, zero parking. So it's kind of, you know, upsetting with that, right? Because it's such a hard neighborhood to park in, right?

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Richie Greenberg: To begin with, it's possible.

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Matt Boschetto: Fabulous.

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Richie Greenberg: It's right next to Golden Eat Park, Panhandle, all of that, the whole area.

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Matt Boschetto: at least another 200 people to that, right?

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Matt Boschetto: But if you actually look at the building.

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Richie Greenberg: I saw it yesterday.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, and it looks… it looks like, kind of, it looks San Franciscan, and…

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Matt Boschetto: And it's… so it's… I think there's a way that it can be done right. When you look at, you know, the one on West Portal, it just looks like a plastic box, right?

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Erica Sandberg: I know!

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Richie Greenberg: I have a look at that, I'll visit that soon.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, you gotta look at it.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: It has to fit with the neighborhood, which cracks me up, because you did talk about the Marina Safeway, and about the proposed development for that. And very few people really came out. There were some people from out of state, some.

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Richie Greenberg: It's beautiful!

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Erica Sandberg: We love it!

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Erica Sandberg: I love…

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Matt Boschetto: I love looking at the, graphic, and just, like, you know, that kind of cutout in the middle. It looks like, the developer was showing it to city planners, and they were like, oh, we need a view there, and let's knock down a big wall.

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Richie Greenberg: Oh, that's very Miami. That's Miami-ish. They do that, and they put a tree right in the middle. They put a tree, a potted tree, right in the middle of that cut-out area.

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Erica Sandberg: So let's wrap this up in a great, big, beautiful bow. Matt, what do you think the future for all of this is? Are you positive, negative? What do you plan on doing? Just kind of just give us a good roadmap to this crazy road issue.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, you know, we're just… we're gonna… we're gonna push the lawsuit forward. You know, again, we're… we're confirming, to engage with some very, very good counsel for, appeals, you know, the appeals level. I feel very confident that at that level, our arguments will be heard.

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Matt Boschetto: And… and agreed with. You know, you also have the ballot, the Citizens Signature Initiative, to put it back on the ballot.

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Matt Boschetto: I am supportive of it. I do think it's gonna be a lot more of an uphill battle than the lawsuit, right?

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Richie Greenberg: No ballot measure.

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Matt Boschetto: The ballot measure, yeah. I mean, I…

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Richie Greenberg: Especially since we just had, within the last week, the new, appointed District 4, Supervisor Alan Wong. This is to

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Richie Greenberg: to take over for Joelong Gardio, and, and, what was her name? Bea Alcaraz in the middle for one week, right? So, that's another whole issue.

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Matt Boschetto: But, so he could have, the local district supervisor could have, if he had support from his colleagues on the board of supervisors.

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Richie Greenberg: They then could have went ahead and put the ballot measure on for us to vote and have a stab at it again, but that failed, so now it has to become a citizen-led signature gathering to qualify to have it on the ballot.

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Matt Boschetto: Yeah, exactly. And I think this is where, kind of, it's sad. I mean, the other thing that I want to support the lawsuit, even though I support the ballot measure, I'm focused on the lawsuit, is just that I feel like in the, you know, legislative, kind of, in that realm, it's gotten very political, right? This… the…

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Matt Boschetto: The Great Highway, the opposition to the park was a bipartisan issue, right? So the closure was a bipartisan issue. You had

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Matt Boschetto: you had, you know, everybody on the political spectrum in agreement that we don't want this done. And I think what's unfortunately happened, and I don't blame the current supervisor, Supervisor Wong, I think he's trying to do his best. I spoke to him, you know, multiple times, like, kind of in all that, and I really appreciate, kind of.

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Matt Boschetto: him standing up for the district and agreeing with the issue, but I think, unfortunately, there's a lot of politics going on around that, right? So, you have to kind of question, I think, sometimes, like.

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Matt Boschetto: why people are doing things and stuff, and you know, again, it's… we're fighting this battle that we already lost, where we're having to raise money from everyday people, and you have

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Matt Boschetto: you know, special tech, like, special interest billionaires, right? Jeremy Stoppelman, you got, like, you know, the founder of Yelp, right? Like, crypto billionaires, you got all these people piling in a ton of money behind them, right?

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Richie Greenberg: If I could jump in…

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Matt Boschetto: Hard, a hard fight.

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Richie Greenberg: You know, but then they're facing the potential, the billionaire's tax, so they might have already have left San California in general. And there's the also extension of the overpaid CEO tax that's local here in the city, too, that is being resurrected and prolonged.

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Richie Greenberg: So they're getting their, their, their reasons to maybe not be involved and, and leave.

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Erica Sandberg: So, I…

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Matt Boschetto: So much has changed in a year, right? I mean, it's like…

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Richie Greenberg: Oh, yeah.

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Matt Boschetto: We have another gross receipts tax, another parcel tax. It's like, San Francisco just continues to be San Francisco, it seems like.

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Erica Sandberg: It's a great way to end this. Matt, thank you so much. You certainly gave a lot of great background, and .

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Matt Boschetto: Cheers.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, we really appreciate it, for sure, and I'm sure our viewers and listeners do, too. Words of warning to everybody out there, just pay attention. Pay attention, get involved.

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Erica Sandberg: your… the people who are involved in running your city work for you. They just do, right? So…

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Erica Sandberg: That means you have to be out and active. Thank you so much, Richie.

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Richie Greenberg: Thanks, everybody, for listening. It's another, fun episode of Really San Francisco, and we look forward to next time, and we'll see you soon. Thank you. Thanks, bye, everybody.