S3 E17: Mayor Lurie's Homelessness Hype

Richie and Erica unpack the latest homeless numbers reported by San Francisco Mayor Daniel Lurie, looking at recent changes to how individuals are counted, and is moving homeless addicts indoors, out of sight, fixing the problem?

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Transcript

Really, San Francisco? Podcast

S3 E17

Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to Really San Francisco, the show about, well, what's really happening in San Francisco. And I am, of course, with my amazing co-host, Mr. Richie Greenberg.

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Richie Greenberg: Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast episode, and what's today's topic, Erica?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Oh, gosh, we're talking about a little something called homelessness? Street issues, what's going on on our streets, alleys, public spaces here in San Francisco. Is it really getting better?

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Richie Greenberg: Ports, yeah.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's unfortunately.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's right, so say the, the, the politicians who are in office right now, who want to give…

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Richie Greenberg: powers that be.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Sure, why not, right? So, yeah, we're gonna be talking about that, but as a perfect segue, I did go to the Salvation Army's gala last night honoring the Way Out, which is a free

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: program for anybody in San Francisco, but I think you pretty much have to be a San Francisco resident of some kind, to get free recovery services on-site.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: It's an amazing program, super proud of it, and this was a fundraiser for it, and it brought out the, the political stars, that's for sure.

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Richie Greenberg: Where was it held?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: It was held at, One Samsung? I can't say that very well. One Samsum?

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Richie Greenberg: Off of market, right?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's right, and most people will be able to recognize it because it's got these gorgeous columns inside, and it's got a martini bar, beautiful little martini carts that come out. But last night, it was all about fundraising for the Salvation Army. So, it was pretty much everybody. You're talking Daniel Lurie, Brooke Jenkins.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Several supervisors.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: one person who's running for… for Congress, Marie Harabiel, was there, and none of the others, which was really

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: stain.

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Richie Greenberg: That's interesting, I wonder why.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Absolutely.

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Richie Greenberg: It's a big deal, and…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yeah, yeah, so it was a big deal. It was a big deal, and there was a lot. Of course, Steve Adami, who's with the program, and, again, all talking about the success rate. Success, success.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: success. We are helping people on the streets and helping San Francisco

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: have a better, safer, cleaner community. So.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That aside, oh, also, Richie, I will never again wear a strapless dress all night long. Tug, tug, tug. Horrible. Not ever gonna happen again. Okay, that aside… No dancing for me.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Okay, so today's topic. We are talking about the reports that have come out. Of course, Daniel Lurie came out as a shining star. Great, great,

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: poll numbers for him, I think it was 76% or 77%?

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Richie Greenberg: I thought it was 74, but yeah, let's just say… let's put the difference. Mid-70s.

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Richie Greenberg: So, he has been pushing, this, the poll results that he is a very popular mayor.

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Richie Greenberg: And, his PR team came out with messaging saying that he's America's most popular mayor. Well, well, first of all, there was no actual, polls done.

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Richie Greenberg: nationally to, to rank him in the top, but… so, that's an interesting way of spinning his popularity, and but I didn't get asked… I didn't get a poll.

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Richie Greenberg: a phone call or someone on the street asking me about this. I don't know anyone. Did you get a.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: No.

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Richie Greenberg: asking about the polling.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: I didn't, but… but these are sample sizes, they're… that are kind of tested and true. Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: 800.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: I mean, we'll do a national poll for a thousand people, so… and then get the poll numbers, so… or the poll results. But, yeah, I mean, he definitely seems to be very, very popular, and people tend to like him.

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Richie Greenberg: That, that's… that's true. I mean.

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Richie Greenberg: you know, you and I have been, following politics for years. At least one of us has run for, for office, so we know what polling numbers can be, what they can influence, and, whoever it is that runs the poll itself… Stu! God bless you!

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Richie Greenberg: Oops. Okay, it might turn soon, but…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Bless you.

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Richie Greenberg: America.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Thank you, thanks!

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, whoever runs the poll can actually influence the outcome of the, of the…

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Richie Greenberg: called a push-pull, also. But regardless, I mean, there's no doubt that San Franciscans as a whole, even us, you and I, we feel that there is a marked difference in attitude and in the sentiment of the city here. There's no doubt about that.

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Richie Greenberg: Whether or not it's totally meaningful is, is another, another issue. So he puts out this, this, actually, there's two things. First of all, just to say that he is,

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Richie Greenberg: America's most popular mayor, most highest approval, 74%, doing a great job, keep it going, the city's on the rise, right?

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Richie Greenberg: But then at the same time, there was also a press conference where he talked about a report about homelessness, and that's what today's theme is about homelessness, right?

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Richie Greenberg: So, I just have a couple of statistics that I just have printed out over here. First of all, there's the results of the point-in-time count. You know, what is the point in time? Are you familiar with what that is?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Of course, of course. The point in time count is one night or day. This is kind of a big point of contention right now.

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Richie Greenberg: Mmm, yeah.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Where researchers will go out and literally count the number of people in doorways. If there's a tent, they'll ask how many people are inside the tent, they'll kind of peek in, and they're doing a tally. They're just tallying it up.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: How many? How many? How many on this block? How many on that block? How many in this district? So…

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Richie Greenberg: inventory. They're just looking around with a clipboard and going down the street, and they all have teams, and they're all assigned certain areas.

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Richie Greenberg: And it's, like you said, it's point in time, it is a snapshot at one specific time of one specific day of the year. And it's actually done every two years, it's not every day.

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Richie Greenberg: And so, they did this, and the results…

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Richie Greenberg: is what Mayor Lurie and his PR team were just ecstatic about, and put out the press release, the press conference, and it got quoted in the media everywhere.

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Richie Greenberg: Saying incredible progress, That it showed homelessness had dropped over 20% Which…

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, that's nothing to shake a stick at. That's pretty good, right? 22%, actually, to 3,400 people. That's what they're saying. There's 3,400 people who are homeless.

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Richie Greenberg: That's the lowest level in 15 years. Tents, the number of tents that we're seeing on the streets are down 85%. And overall homeless… see, there's a difference between

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Richie Greenberg: People who are living unsheltered, they're on the street, or in a car, versus indoors somewhere, but it's not their own home.

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Richie Greenberg: So that's a distinction between what kind of homelessness you're talking about. So overall, homelessness had fallen, by 4% to just under 8,000. So it's saying that San Francisco has overall…

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Richie Greenberg: Indoors and outdoors.

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Richie Greenberg: Just about 8,000.

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Richie Greenberg: And, that is what they were pushing. Now, Mayor Lurie says that this is proving that his plan, the breaking the cycle plan, which includes aggressive outreach.

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Richie Greenberg: Expanding the number of shelters and their capacities, the treatment centers, and sweeping encampments to get them out.

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Richie Greenberg: you know, to sweep him away, that it was working, his plan is working. More people, this is like a quote from him, more people are coming inside to get shelter and treatment, and we're moving in the right direction. Well, so, yeah, that sounds great, that sounds encouraging, that sounds…

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Richie Greenberg: Positive, it sounds uplifting, but there is a couple of things here, and…

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Richie Greenberg: you brought up part of it, right? For the first time, I don't know if it's in history, or the first time in a long time.

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Richie Greenberg: the… Methodology of counting the people, doing…

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Richie Greenberg: The inventory, doing the point-in-time count.

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Richie Greenberg: is… different than in the past, and as we know.

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Richie Greenberg: When something is done differently for the first time ever, or in a very long time, that can show different results. It can show… result in something at count being quite different. And that is what we're seeing here. It was typically done in the past, the point in time was done…

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Richie Greenberg: At night, at the beginning of the evening, 8 o'clock or so, and went, you know, for several hours into the evening.

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Richie Greenberg: This time, it was done early in the morning.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yes.

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Richie Greenberg: So, the results are, or the explanation, let's say, is that when it's daylight, many people are actually out

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Richie Greenberg: Those who are… would be counted in the homeless would be out at a different center, seeking counseling, and just because one is homeless doesn't mean that they don't work.

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Richie Greenberg: Right? There are working homeless.

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Richie Greenberg: And so they may have been on their way to the job, already at a job.

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Richie Greenberg: So, that is what could artificially lower the homeless count.

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Richie Greenberg: So that is number one. Number two…

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Richie Greenberg: a change in the methodology in counting, is that in the past, they just went up the street, okay, and they just pointed. Here's one, here's another one, here's 3, 4, 5, 6, and they were just taking… taking inventory, as we said.

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Richie Greenberg: But the change now in the method is to…

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Richie Greenberg: Have these individuals who are working

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Richie Greenberg: for the Count, the ones who are taking the count, to actually engage

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Richie Greenberg: With these individuals, these homeless individuals, and spend just a little bit of time talking with them, so it slows down.

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Richie Greenberg: the counting.

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Richie Greenberg: that whole ability to count. So there might have been that were missed, because it just was taking a long time. And by that time, by slowing it down, allowed others to either

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Richie Greenberg: You know, move, move on and move out of their tent, or go to a,

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Richie Greenberg: go to a shelter for treatment, or to go to their job. So, that's what is being…

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Richie Greenberg: I shouldn't say the word blamed, but is a very serious…

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Richie Greenberg: Consideration in the accuracy of the count.

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Richie Greenberg: That's… that's what… what's coming out of this.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Well, I mean, I think you used the right word here, accuracy. This is a very imprecise

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: set of data. It's… you can't… there's so many factors that can influence the number of people on the street. A horrible, rainy, blustery night that the temperatures are down into the 30s, or…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: 20s, whatever the case may be, compared to a balmy day where there's a lot of people out and about. It's… it's… they're very… you… they're not… it's not apples to apples, it's apples to oranges.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: So, it's really hard to get those… that comparison. I think it's good to do, I think it's good for people… for these counts to happen, but just how much you can really rely on the… on the figures really relies… I think it gives them more of an overall sense

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: than a… than… These percentage points.

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Richie Greenberg: But they're using it as this massive point to celebrate how well the city is rising from the ashes, and…

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Richie Greenberg: Now, there's another, another thing that is important to consider here, and I'm, again, I'm just looking over some of the reports that I had gotten here, is that,

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Richie Greenberg: this… Is, potentially, by not seeing

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Richie Greenberg: the individuals out on the street, and getting them inside, indoors, into housing, into a shelter, into, supportive housing, or, you know, single-room occupancy, locations.

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Richie Greenberg: Does it mean that they are free of drug use, drug addiction? And, you know, of course, I mean…

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Richie Greenberg: these are… it doesn't mean that there's a total victory, and now we can go back to our lives, and everything is all… everything is all, unicorns and, rainbows, right? So…

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Richie Greenberg: It simply means that the people who were previously homeless are now indoor somewhere, but there's still potentially severe problem with addiction with these individuals.

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Richie Greenberg: And, moving those out of sight doesn't mean that those individuals are now

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Richie Greenberg: You know, cured, that their lives are back in order, and everything is all fine.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Absolutely, and the word homelessness and homeless just keeps being brought up, and what actually does that mean? Some… because somebody does not have a,

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: A lease to an apartment, or a mortgage, right?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: does that make them homeless? Now, if somebody has…

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, that is one category, yes.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That is, that's right.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: So, but… but you also have situations where a 22-year-old has left home because they've got a drug issue, or they just want to party, right? They leave home, which they do have a home, right? Their parents' home, they just left home, right? And came to San Francisco to hang out on the streets.

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Richie Greenberg: Runs are cheap.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Absolutely. So they definitely are being counted as homeless. Now.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: It's true, they don't have… they don't have their own rent to pay, but they've got mom and dad who live in San Mateo, right, and they're still collecting.

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Richie Greenberg: Or other states that came from…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Absolutely.

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Richie Greenberg: They came from New Jersey, yeah.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yeah, I mean, that's a really, really big, important meatball that's out there that is being counted in a completely wrong way. And it's not…

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Richie Greenberg: What would be great would be to have the results to say, okay, here's those who were chronically homeless that have been in San Francisco for 5 years, 10 years, and they are homeless on the streets. That's correct. And another category, where did they come from if not? So, you know, how many people have been here between individuals between…

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Richie Greenberg: Let's say a week to 6 months, somewhere around there. And where do they come from?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: So what…

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Richie Greenberg: We're not getting… we're actually not getting a full picture. We're not getting an accurate picture.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: And you're relying on people to tell you the truth.

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Richie Greenberg: Yes, that's another thing, too. How many are actually being honest?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: I gotta tell you, Richie, I mean, that is one of the most aggravating aspects of this, because when somebody is addicted to drugs or alcohol.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: One thing you know for sure, They lie.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: I have so much personal experience with this, with family members, love them.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: adore them, they're in my heart, but they lie. This is what an addict does. So.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: if one of these people came and said, hey, you know, I said, are you homeless? Yes, I'm homeless. Are you using any substances? No, just, you know… it's… there's… I would not trust that ever for any reason. So there's… that's one thing.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: The other is a lot of people who are on the streets

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: sleeping on the streets, hanging out with somebody who wears… they are actually… they have a home in one of San Francisco's permanent supportive housing units, and are they telling the truth? Are they saying, oh, no, I've got a place, or are they just saying, no, I'm just hanging out? Again, this is… this is…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Information that you're getting from people who have very serious mental health issues, serious addiction issues.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: 9 times out of 10, I would be, you know, I would just walk away thinking, am I getting the full story here? Am I getting… I'm not.

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Richie Greenberg: Because even though San Francisco has the, the reputation of being the most lax enforcement area, right?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: They're still… they're probably in the back of these individuals' minds that they have to be careful what they say they're afraid of being.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: there are.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: thrown out of their supportive housing. They're afraid of being cut off from their supply of whatever it is they're.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Huh.

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Richie Greenberg: they're partaking in, right? So you, you add all this together, so the lying, there's a very big incentive to lie. We don't, you know…

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Richie Greenberg: It's just… it's a tragedy, Erica and I. We talk about this all the time, about how… and this is just part of the whole topic.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, you have, on the one hand, in City Hall, you have Mayor Lurie announcing, like, this victorious, you know, the results of the poll that look fantastic, yet mere blocks away.

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Richie Greenberg: On Market and 6th, You have that… the videos that we see from JJ and others, Showing, pre-dawn.

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Richie Greenberg: Right? Pre-dawn, massive open-air drug market, with the dealers there throwing around their drugs of meth.

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Richie Greenberg: Fentanyl, individuals hunched over, some in wheelchairs hunched over. Absolutely disgusting.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: It is, Richie, and I think the, I don't want to…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: rain on Mayor Lurie's parade here. I understand.

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Richie Greenberg: They don't either, you know.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yeah, and I think I've made this claim before, and I'm sticking to it, because I do believe it. We are going in the right direction.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: The fact that there aren't tents on the streets as there were before is enormous. Credit, credit, credit, you get the credit, everybody who worked on that, London Breed, basically, I mean, and Daniel Lurie, and Grant Pass, and you name it. I don't even think, at this stage, one thing we know.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: This is not a debatable point, it's not… it's not a statistic, this is visual. You don't see the tense because they're not there. No, that doesn't mean they're totally eliminated, but…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: they're… Almost entirely gone.

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Richie Greenberg: I see it… you know, I drive around the city, right? I go here and there, and I'm crossing back and forth.

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Richie Greenberg: And, yeah, no, I agree. Maybe I'll see one… tent.

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Richie Greenberg: Maybe in one trip from west to east. Maybe one. And then sometimes I'm walking around, I see two or three, a cluster.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: A different day, but it's nothing like how it used to be in.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: No.

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Richie Greenberg: the late teens, 2019, and through, through COVID, the pandemic.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Oh my gosh.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, those were whole, like, whole encampments.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Oh.

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Richie Greenberg: Don't really see that.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: And they were everywhere. They were everywhere. And it wasn't just COVID, it was just, we… policy just let it happen. We just let it happen. In fact.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: I… on a street not… not far from me, and I live in a very nice neighborhood, there was a pervasive encampment, couldn't get rid of it. And I would call the police, and I would say.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Help me! Help me! What can we do? These guys were smoking meth, right… it was right across from a kid's playground, and…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: the answer was always, I have… our hands are tied, can't do anything, can't do anything. And it was…

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Richie Greenberg: And some of this had to do with Chances of Bodine, District Attorney, back then, and his policy to just basically,

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Richie Greenberg: not prosecute anyone. But there was also the,

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Richie Greenberg: the other, laws as well, that were preventing people, and then we have… The nonprofits and other.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Done it for a free box, and…

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Richie Greenberg: They were handing out the.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: We're published on homelessness, handed out.

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Richie Greenberg: Handing them out. So anyone that had a tent that got confiscated wound up just being replaced within mere minutes from one of the nonprofits that would just swoop right in and hand them a new one.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's right, so that is huge. Now, I want to say something, Richard. You tell me if you think this makes sense. So the reason… well, okay, when tents, most of them, are eliminated from the situation, which they have, you don't see them nearly as much, people are still using, they're still on the streets, but they're exposed.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: They're for everyone to see. A lot of those people who are in their own heads, right, they're not thinking about what the rest of the world thinks of them, or the community, or their neighbors right across the street, kids, oh, you know, seniors, they don't care, right? But some do.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Some are embarrassed. Some don't want to be there, like, oh my god, now people can see me. Could that be one reason that we see fewer homeless people? Maybe a portion of them said.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: I don't like being exposed.

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Richie Greenberg: You mean the drug, the drug… the addicts, the user?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Statics, yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: don't want to.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: out in broad daylight.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's right!

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Richie Greenberg: To be, photographed and recorded.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Or just… or just seeing. You want some pride. Some people, if you still have a little bit of pride in yourself, right? You don't necessarily want the whole… people walking by and looking at you. It's embarrassing.

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Richie Greenberg: So that's why they would do it in a tent, and without a tent being there, now you're exposed, right?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Exactly.

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Richie Greenberg: Or you'd find a corner, a dark corner in an alleyway, in a dark doorway, some foyer, foyer of a building.

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Richie Greenberg: or indoors. You know, you've got someone, a friend that has a room in one of these buildings, supportive housing buildings, and if there's no

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Richie Greenberg: policy that is against doing drugs on the premises, which I think the majority don't, right? They don't enforce.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: And if they do.

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Richie Greenberg: That's where they wind up doing it, and, then they can just come back out onto the street and get on their… go on their way wherever they're going next.

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Richie Greenberg: So, yeah, I mean, this is part of the whole interpretation of Lori's report, is that they basically have just moved a lot of these individuals out of sight.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's right. Yeah, and so…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: The net effect, though, is, like, what is our community looking like right now? San Francisco as a whole. As a whole, it's a lot better. I believe it's better. In certain… in certain areas.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: it's as bad, if not worse, because it's starting to get very concentrated… I'm not starting, it is concentrated in certain… on certain blocks, which are…

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Richie Greenberg: Now we see that they're starting to move into parts of the mission that they've had before because of the sweeps and other…

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Richie Greenberg: reasons that the typical areas are expanding or just shifting elsewhere, and this is very problematic as well, so it's not really reducing them, it's just moving a few blocks away, moving a mile away, or what have you.

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Richie Greenberg: And that's the problem. So, I think if we just want to, summarize this whole topic, it's like, yes, San Francisco

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Richie Greenberg: In many… in the majority of the city, looks better, looks cleaner and clearer of the tents and homeless and addicts.

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Richie Greenberg: Mayor Lurie's press conference and his announcement is a bit exaggerated, and the data is manipulated, which, cherry picking, we know how that works. It's,

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Richie Greenberg: It's, a general overview, it's, cherry picking, it's,

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Richie Greenberg: it's incomplete, because it's not showing us who are the individuals, the homeless who are recent arrivals versus the chronic 5 years, 10 years. And, it's basically moved a lot of the individuals off the streets, indoors, where they're still, if they are.

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Richie Greenberg: homeless because of addiction to drugs, then they're just hiding where they're actually doing their.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yeah. And, you know, I think it's… I don't think we can emphasize enough the fact that the people who are…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: living outside.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: it's… this isn't a, you know, they… they lost their job a couple months ago, struggled for a bit, and ended up on the street. It's really… it's just not that. You know that, I know that. Most people in San Francisco know that. So there… the word…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: You know, it's… We have to change. That has to change to reflect accuracy.

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Richie Greenberg: energy.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: The terminology, this is an addiction issue.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Almost 100%, 90% is an addiction issue, and we can overlook that, and…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: You know, we're on our way to doing that, but I tell you, it's still a struggle. I still hear it.

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Richie Greenberg: It's a fight.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: It's a.

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Richie Greenberg: fight in City Hall, because they are just kicking and screaming and don't want

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Richie Greenberg: to make meaningful change. And this is… this could be a whole other topic, but…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Could be.

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Richie Greenberg: And what's interesting is, you know, you have all of these,

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Richie Greenberg: Candidates, yeah, we're in an election year, midterms, and we've got within two

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Richie Greenberg: what is it, two and a half weeks is the primaries, and you don't hear the candidates running, right, for Congress, even though they may not have exactly the ability to make any change.

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Richie Greenberg: quickly locally, they're not talking about drug addiction and how to deal with this, they're talking about other…

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Richie Greenberg: Nebulous concepts, right?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: So,

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: But the good thing about what we're experiencing right now.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, so what's that?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: is we don't have to look at the numbers. We can just go outside.

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Richie Greenberg: That's right, we just go out and.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: And that's what we need to do. We need to keep going outside.

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Richie Greenberg: As we do.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: We do. So, Richie, I want to say thank you so much for always being… I'm just gonna… I'm just gonna give you a couple compliments here for being a truth-teller, right?

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Richie Greenberg: And you too.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Thank you. But you know, you have nothing to gain. We have nothing to gain.

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Richie Greenberg: game.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: by not telling the truth. In fact, we have a lot to lose, because it… unfortunately, it can get people very angry with us sometimes.

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Richie Greenberg: Exactly.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: But we don't answer to anyone, you don't answer to anyone, the…

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Richie Greenberg: The truth of…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: The facts are the facts.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: Neither of us has a personal agenda. Neither of us is bound by agreement or financing to say things in a certain way. Neither of us is running for office. Neither of us is…

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Richie Greenberg: is trying to get onto a board or a commission. Right. So, we're just telling it like it is, like it really is San Francisco.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: That's right. So, thank you so much to everybody who has joined us, joined us for the first time today. Welcome! And please subscribe. This is, this is…

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: wonderful to be able to do every week. We usually do it every week. And, we'd love to.

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Richie Greenberg: And here we are.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: And we want to hear from you, right? So, Richie, what's the best way to get in touch with you and us?

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Richie Greenberg: Well, you can write to us, collectively, podcast at reallySFNews.com, and that's a website, reallysfnews.com.

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Richie Greenberg: You can contact Erica directly if you're on,

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Richie Greenberg: X, formerly Twitter, as they say, and that's, Erica J. Sandberg, and me, you can get in touch with me, also on X,

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Richie Greenberg: Formerly Twitter, at Greenberg Nation.

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Richie Greenberg: And, we look forward to our next exciting, informative, and fun chat.

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Richie Greenberg: very soon, within the next week, I'm assuming, right, Erica?

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: In that language.

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Richie Greenberg: Okay.

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Erica Jennifer Sandberg: Alright, so thank you again, everybody. Until next time. This is really San Francisco.

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Richie Greenberg: San Francisco. Thanks, everybody.