The Right People Protect Your Vision with Tim Calderala

Reece sits down with Tim Calderala of Apex Homes Florida to talk about the money impact of hiring, leadership clarity, and building a bench of talent. Tim shares what four acquisitions taught him about systems, KPIs, and why “right people in right seats” beats any process on paper. You will hear how he launched a custom home company from scratch and what builders can do today to stop letting team gaps wreck margin.

https://www.apexhomesfl.com

Show Notes:
00:00 Right people first
03:43 Tim’s builder path
06:30 Acquisitions lessons
09:51 Clarity and vision
14:23 OKRs and KPIs
17:44 Starting Apex Homes
23:45 Pipeline and priorities
31:00 Build your bench
38:15 Jobsite leadership
43:54 One big takeaway
45:16 Where to follow

Find Our Hosts:
Reece Barnes
Matt Calvano

Podcast Produced By:
Motif Media

Transcript

0:00

Getting the right people in the right seats is absolutely fundamentally critical, no matter how good your systems and processes are, no matter how detailed you are and how much attention you pay to your books, all that's out the window if you don't have the right people in the right seats. Welcome to builders budgets and beers. I'm Rhys Barnes and I started this podcast to have real conversations about money in the building industry, the wins, the mistakes and everything in between. I believe builders deserve to feel confident about their finances, and that starts by hearing from others who've been through it too. This industry can be slow to change, but the right stories and the right tools can make profitability feel possible. Let's get into it. You alrighty. Tim, mics are hot. We're rolling awesome. Tim, thank you so much for jumping on builders budgets and beers. Glad to be here. Appreciate you having me. Yeah, of course. So Well, obviously we'll do just, you know, the standard, like, tell me who you are, what your background is, but I think we start this episode off, because I how you got here, how you got on the podcast, is, is pretty cool, in my opinion. So just for the listeners, Tim actually reached out, because he had been listening to podcasts. He loved it. Tim and I had a phone call. Tim, what's give the give the listeners a little detail in terms of, like, how you heard about us? Yeah, it's been an absolute blast. Race. I and I'm an avid believer in self education, self improvement, ongoing educational, personal development. All those things that I think are have been a massive attribute to my successes in life, and I think just generally, are good habits in business in general. But I started listening to the podcast. You know, I'm very engaged in the builder community, because this is all I've done my whole life. But when I started listening, found you guys started listening, I think the thing that appealed me to most was, first of all, the voice relative to the builder community, but then the diversity that you guys have really been intentional about with the topics and the different guests that you've had on. I've really enjoyed engaging with with pretty much every episode, looking at things from a different perspective. I love it. Do you remember how you came across the podcast? I'll be honest with you. I used AI to Google which, which podcast I should, you know, engage with that are most relative to the industry. And there's one here locally, the two good friends of mine participate in and I've been listening to them for a while, but as soon as I got onto onto you, I was hooked, dude. Okay, so you found us via AI, that's even more fitting. That's right, yeah, okay, I love it. Um, okay, Tim, well, we're, we'll certainly dig into your story. Because, I mean, I just think, frankly, that's, that's the best way to learn is via authentic storytelling, right? It's just, I mean, obviously, tons of builders on the podcast, tons of construction accounting professionals on the podcast. I think the only way to keep it from stagnating is leaning into the fact that although you guys are all building houses, you're all remodeling houses, you're all doing like commercial whatever it might be, it's the story is different. But in the different stories, there are nuggets and pieces that builders can say, I've been there before. I can identify with Tim. I've seen it. So that's exactly what we're going to do today. But before we do Tim Calder, Ella, give the folks, give the listeners a little background on yourself, who you are, where you're at, what you build, yeah, yeah. I, I'm, I'm so excited to talk about all this. I I've been in this business my whole life. The day I graduated school, I went to University of South Carolina, graduated with a business degree, had no idea I'd go into construction. But three days after I graduated, I got a call from a friend of mine in Nashville, and got a job opportunity, and drove as fast as I could to get there to start earning a paycheck, and kind of the rest is history. So I started with that company there as a small mom and pop, local builder. It's actually two brothers. One was a developer, one was a builder, and that's really where I cut my teeth. This was in the late 90s, and I started in the office, kind of just doing a little bit of everything, getting exposure to the business. Really fell in love with it. I mean, I've talked to so many people over the years that joke about how once it's in your blood, you just can't get it out. And it's so true. Totally love it. So spend some time learning the building side a little bit of development. Got into purchasing, believe it or not, back then we were handwriting POS, I believe in three part forms to distribute. You to the different parties. But, man, you want to talk about learning how to build a house from every piece and part and bolt. Man, we were right now, not only cost codes and details, but you know, every single plumbing valve and escutcheon plate and every little detail you could think about lumber packages. You know, stud by stud, size by size. It was incredible, looking back, how fast I was able to grab so much Intel in the business itself. So I love it. I was there. Yeah, one piece, you said you've mentioned a three piece. Po is that, is that, are you talking like the carbon copy? It's like the piece of paper with, like, three sadly, yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. And, you know, it's hilarious, because, like, so I was born in the 90s, not to age myself. I mean, I'm 30, right? So I'm not young young, but I'm young enough to have, just as of recently learned that CC or carbon copy wasn't just an email term. Like, I had no idea carbon copy was, like, a legitimate thing. It's like, it's the carbon copy is essentially, like, the paper that you write on, and then it presses through to the next one, and then it presses through to the next one, and you get, like, three copies. I had no idea. It's hilarious, but yeah, okay, so, side note, total. Side note, okay. So Nashville building houses starting out, yeah, gotten to the field. I was there for about six years. But during that time period, we were actually acquired by the Jones company out of St Louis, which was more production based. So I went through my first acquisition, which was an experience in and of itself, learned about corporate structure and what all that engagement looked like, getting into their systems and processes, integrating software, all that good stuff so that that was pretty nuts, massive changes within the culture within the company, and then learning an entirely different methodology. And we went from building 3040, custom homes a year to building 350, 400 production homes a year in a three year span. So, man, you want to talk about it's kind of been the history of my career is just right time, right place when it came to exposure and experience that was priceless. I didn't feel like that at the time. Totally, it was a lot to endure, but, but looking back, there's no way I'd be where I am today if it wasn't for that so totally, if so fast forward, at the end of that transition, my family and I decided to pack up and move to Jacksonville. Had some family here and and the and the market was booming. This was early, 2000s and it was on fire. Got really fortunate to jump on with another really reputable local custom home builder, one of, one of the biggest at the times, I mean, North Florida builders, was building 4050, custom homes at a million dollar average sales price back in the early 2000s that Was that was cranking so back into operations supporting construction. Did that. I was there for six years again, got acquired by Woodside homes out of Salt Lake, one of the largest privately held builders at the time. Yeah, back through systems and processes and cultural changes and all that stuff, again, on a much larger corporate scale. And again, went, made it through that transition, and it was crazy, but again, great learning experience new software programs, you know, keeping a team engaged through that kind of transition. Learned a lot just watching totally and then ultimately ended up as as VP, the owner sold, transitioned out. Everybody kind of stepped up. So we had a new president. I stepped up to VP, and really got to cut my teeth on the management side. From there, jumped to another local builder, same story, smaller Mom and Pop type business acquired by sentex here locally, I got to do it all over again, and that's kind of been it. And then thankfully, I landed at Collins builders, which is a local custom builder here in Jacksonville, been in business for 20 plus years, and I jumped in as the COO there, and was there for 11 years, up till earlier this year, when I finally made the leap to jump out on my own. Totally well. So I think you know, what I'm hearing over and over is, first off, TIB, you're kind of like the the mom and. Pop. Silver Bullet here, you know, you're like, you're like, hey, if someone wants to get acquired, if someone wants to scale and grow, they just get Tim on the team, and Tim makes it happen. But jokes aside, what I'm hearing is, you say, show me the success. Then you say, show me the processes and systems. Right? Like, that's what I'm hearing generally, is like, you have gone from these Mom and Pop builders, they scale, they grow. There's obviously, like, market conditions that help and impact this. But like, generally, I'm hearing operations, process, implementations, systems. What is like, your just general thesis, or like, the most easy way to explain the importance of processes and systems in the business for the listeners, yeah, you know, it all starts with people, honestly, as ironic as that sounds, you know, process is key, but the process is only good as the people that are in place to allow those processes to function well or at a high level. So that's really where it starts, is getting the right people around you. And I've been unbelievably blessed and fortunate to be surrounded by really good, talented people throughout my career. So that's really it. And then, and then clear messaging, a clear vision. You know, I think going through, I've been through four acquisitions, and two were done really well, and two were a real struggle. And I can tell you, the difference between them was that the two that were done really well, it was very open, very clear and transparent. The message was clear, the vision and the goals were clear, and then management being able to support the team, through that clarity and through that messaging, led to tremendous success. Go the other route, and when you don't have those things, then it's just, it's chaos, It's pandemonium. The culture suffers. You end up with attrition, and that's just not good for anybody. I think that's kind of a short sighted take, yeah, well, and I think what I still want to get back into, like, 100% understand, like the people, like, in order to have successful system and process, you have to have quality people executing right and, like, running in those systems and processes. So we'll get back to that. But I want to touch on the, like, the importance of clarity and vision and message, because that is like, it makes all the sense in the world, right? If you say anyone like, it's got to be a clear message, they'll nod their head and say, Yeah, that makes sense, right? But I think there's a lot of ambiguity in what, what makes a message clear, what makes a vision clear, right? It Do you have any depth that you can add to that, just with your experience of what a clear message is and what it isn't. Yeah, absolutely. I've got to give a little testimony to Cameron Harold. I have been a member of the COO Alliance for the last several years, which he heads up. He's authored several books, one of which is called the vivid vision, and that's the structure for how you develop that, in this case, a one year, a three year, five year outlook, and then you parlay that into what are the goals for the company, and then through KPIs, through doing OKRs, with each member of the team at each level using that those goals and that vision to structure how everybody's role falls into place to meet the ultimate goals and for each individual to have independent success within the structure of all those processes and systems and everything else. So it becomes measured, it becomes clear, which creates accountability and successes. You know, you can coach them up if you need to, you coach them out if you have to. But when the vision is clear, the message is clear. You're consistent with that message. You know, I'm a big fan of the you can only expect from what you inspect philosophy and business totally. So you know, having one on ones, meeting with your team on a regular basis, you know, measuring successes through those KPIs and indicators that you've established to meet your goals. I think those are just critical fundamental tools for successful business. Okay, I think that that makes a ton of sense. And KPI, just for the listeners out here, is key performance indicator, one that I always need a reminder on which I think is good to share with the listeners, is OKR. OKR is what, objective key results. Objective key result, OK, and that's, yeah, it started with Intel, Microsoft, you know, you're probably 20 years ago. They started basically breaking down the goals into these individual objectives and key results for each member of the team, no matter what level of management. In or support you're in. Everybody's got OKRs. And for me, I've found that doing them quarterly tends to work best, because it keeps it front of mind, keeps it fresh. And then I'm a big fan of one on one meetings on a consistent and regular basis, whether it's weekly or bi weekly, really no longer than that, so that you can have that accountability, you can measure successes, and you're not waiting until the end of the quarter to realize, oops, I didn't make it or I needed additional tools or support. That's an ongoing conversation to make sure you're achieving your goals totally, totally and that's where like the objectives and key results and key performance indicators, OKRs and KPIs. That's where, like, that's like the distilled down from the vision, right, right, but in order and correct me where I'm wrong. Tim, but if, like, in order for a leader to communicate a clear vision and a clear message, they need to see, like, Okay, I want to triple in business in the next three years. And then how are we going to distill that down and actually do that on a day to day, week to week, month to month, quarter to quarter, year to year basis. That's where your KPIs, that's where your OKRs are. So that's, I think that's to get to the clear message to the team, as a leader, you need to be able to distill all of that down into something that's that's tangible, palatable, actionable for the individuals that are driving us to that tripling in three years, or whatever the goal is. Yeah, and I think having it in writing is key. I think getting buy in and collaboration within the team to develop and set those goals, ultimately, is a huge attributing factor to success. You know, I can sit here and dictate what I think or what I want, but at the end of the day, if I don't have buy in from the team, then that's only going to go so far, 1,000% I love it. Okay? So, no, this is actually, like, perfectly teed up for what you're doing today, because, to the listeners, they're probably sitting here like, dude, Tim's got this like, insane background of jumping into mom and pop businesses and, like, scaling them up to these huge organizations that ultimately get acquired. And he sees, like, all these big corporate terms floating around and like, how does this resonate with me? That's why I wanted to get you on the podcast. Tim, is because I think, like, the background is incredible, but now what you're doing today is the more exciting part. So before I just, like, blow it for the listeners. Tim, what are you doing today? What is? What is the last six months year of Tim's life look like? What are you working on? Yeah, yeah. So I resigned from my COO role of 11 years back in late spring of this year to finally decide to go out on my own. I started Apex homes Florida back in July took it took me a month or two to study and pass in Florida, the GC exams are brutal. There's three of them. They're intense. It's just a massive pile of books you get to go through tab and prep for. So I spent a solid 30 days doing nothing but just getting my nose in a book and studying and prepping for the exams, was able to pass them on the first try, praise the Lord, and got through them all and got my license in July. Immediately started the LLC and it's been an absolute Blitz and a sprint to get from there to today, where we're a fully operational, up and running custom home building company. So you've got what, 20 years of building experience. Okay, so 25 years of building experience, you're just now starting your own construction company, and you've gone from July, wait, you were probably studying before July and, like, past June. Yeah, June. Okay, so you, like, essentially, in like six months, stood up like a fully operating construction company. Okay, absolutely. So I think let's dig into how you're building this, what you're structuring, what you're prioritizing in the early days. And the reason I want to dig into this because I think it's extremely important for the listeners to understand that it is possible. It can be done from day one, but it's never too late to start transitioning your business into these types of successful practices. So what was step one for you? Tim, like you passed your licenses, you're starting the business. What is like the first three months of that process look like for you? What do you focus on? Yeah, it's a lot, and all those other things we just talked about, vision going. Roles KPIs, all tied to the today, one of starting this business, what I've done everywhere I've been with every role I've been in, is in that in each individual role for myself, I've always established goals, expectations and my own vision to accomplish and achieve and be successful in whatever I was doing, just for my part in the company or the business. So I have become unbelievably solid at reverse engineering, getting everything set up based on what those visions and goals are. So on day one, I just had, I mean, I had a pad full of notes based on different categories. Basically, back to your question about, you know, how do I put all this together? Well, you've got sales, you've got marketing, you've got, you know, so I started to take the things that I identified, the things that would give me the most benefit the quickest. You know, in sales and marketing, obviously, that's that's the foundation, because if you don't start getting revenue flowing sooner than later, and your cash flows out the door, and you're done so, so building the website, getting social media platforms established, and getting the name and the brand out there was, was the first big point of attack. And I say that in reality, there was so much overlap and things happening in conjunction. You know, while I've got that going on, you know, you do that a certain number of hours a day, and then you shift and you focus. And I'm a big fan of time blocking. So all this in the first 90 days was very concise and scheduled out and planned so that every day wasn't just busy, but it was productive. It was moving forward in the order of operations, based on priorities, based on the things that would allow us to be successful as quick as possible, and get to market as quick as possible, while then also preparing for those successes when they happen. So getting legal done, having contracts in place. I was very fortunate to have been in this market for 25 years. So my subcontractor trade and supplier base is very strong. Got great relationships in this market, so that was a big cheat, and the ability for me to fast forward and having my sub base established almost on day one, yeah, however, you still got to get sub agreements and insurance and all that stuff set up and in place. So, you know, using some AI tools to mass generate emails, to get those documents out and back and organized and structured and all that stuff was really important. And then, of course, accounting, you know, getting getting your book set up, getting your your cost codes established, again, a big cheat for me, because I was able to kind of shortcut one just based on my years of experience and learning, oftentimes the hard way. You know, I've heard a couple episodes that you've done where people have way overdone it with cost codes, and then other times where they've way underdone it. And some of that's just attrition and learning through experience over time, what makes sense, what information and data you're trying to really gain insight from that benefits you the most, and I am truly, truly blessed and fortunate that my wife has been in construction accounting for nearly 30 years. So that's my secret weapon, right there? Yeah, totally, yeah. I mean, just having like, so this makes a ton of sense. Like, the first 30 days is like getting the building the funnel right, as we say in business, like your sales, your marketing, right? We've got to start laying the groundwork so that we can start generating revenue and start filling pipeline, right? And then in the interim, you're setting up like, what do our subcontract agreements look like? Do we have our insurance? It's a lot of foundational and fundamental work. And then you obviously bring up the cost code thing, right? Like building a strong set of cost codes that you know that you can operate on, know that you can estimate off of, know that you can start tracking from the very beginning, what these products, these homes that you're building, are actually going to be yielding the business in terms of a profit standpoint. Tell me a little bit about that, like, What are you What do you anticipate the project? I guess. Let me take a step back. How many projects do you have landed? Do you have projects landed? So it's early at this point. So really, August was the first month of on the feet, on the ground. Really, getting moving, getting going. So August, September, October, November. So I'm four months and I've got three, four projects in architecture right now. So we're all in all in design. First one should break ground. And I'm hoping right before the end of the year, right? And these are all custom home projects. They're, you know, average sales price, I anticipate being between two and 3 million exclusive a lot, because we're built on your lot. So whether we're off site or we're in a high end community here in town, we do it all. So, you know, we're, we'd be absolutely shot out of a cannon, ecstatic if we could generate 5 million in revenue in our first year. Yeah, 1,000% that would be an insane accomplishment. I can't wait for that to happen. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so you're in architecture, you're waiting for, really, the end of the year, to get, like, start breaking ground. How, like, what does your day to day look like now, in terms of getting this stuff going go ahead, yeah, yeah. It's, it's constant every day is, of course, analyzing marketing, social media. I kind of have a personal slash professional routine that I've fallen into that has been really critically helpful to me again, personally and professionally. I was an athlete as a kid, so staying active, I think, is really important that keeps your mind fresh early on in this process. Although we are having some early successes. There's a lot of up and downs with being an entrepreneur that I am learning very quickly, not every day is a home run like you want it to be. And so I think finding those things like some form of exercise, I pay attention to analytics every day. I evaluate our annual goals every single day. So where are we? How are we progressing? What are we doing to move towards those things, no matter how small they may be, every day is a step forward. And then I'm an avid reader. You know, obviously, listen to the podcast as well, but try and get into something nonfiction and learn every day. And so, you know, those fundamental things are really critical, and then in the business, it's product development. I'm working with an incredibly young, talented architect out of Charleston. She's definitely an up and comer. Got a marketing team out of Houston that's supporting me with Google ads and all that fun stuff. I've got it here locally. So building that team again, all going back to people and having those right people in place to round out the business, keeping them supported, keeping them engaged, super critical on an almost daily basis. Okay, so you're you've got three projects, four projects, is that right? Okay, are you going to pm all of these. Do you have a pm hired? What's your take on that? What are you going to do? Yeah, again, very thankful and blessed to be in a situation where I've been in a market for a long time. Yeah. So I've actually got some connections, relationships where I've got people almost standing on the sideline. I'm a big believer, no matter where you are in business, of what I refer to as building your bench, keeping those players that you want to engage in your team close at hand, supporting them, engaging with them, wishing them all the best in their current endeavors, but also knowing that, you know, identifying it and knowing that those are folks that you would find valuable as an asset to your team. Totally, I'm ready. I'm ready to hire a pm the second I need to again, my wife's got the accounting function and support role squared away, at least in the short term, and then utilizing the marketing team. They've really done a lot of support. I'm helping with content and organization and structure and that kind of stuff. But they're, they're doing the nuts and bolts for me. So got a good group around me, of course. Yeah, it definitely sounds like it okay. So you've, like, essentially, you've got a project manager just, like, chomping the bet, like, Tim, let's get let's get this rolling. I'm ready to go. What is what? How, like, how does that work? Because I'm thinking, like, is this guy employed? Is this gal employed? Like, are they just, like, ready to jump when like, like, gives them the nod? Do you have depth? Like, what if this person gets cold feet and they don't join? Yeah, yeah. I do have that, you know, got a lot of relationships, worked with a ton of great people in the market. You know, I always wish everybody success, and I don't, I don't poach, I don't go to other builders. I don't, I think that's detrimental to our industry. Yeah, I know tempting with as scarce as resources are now more than ever, but I think having the relationship, being clear about who you are, what your goals are, what you're trying to accomplish, those are the things that I think people gravitate to. Obviously, success breeds success, and my hope is to continue. You to have success and that that allows me to continue to attract talent, 100% okay, so I think that's an awesome comment, because just your comment, of like, the scarcity and resources out there, it is tempting to poach people, but it's also like, it creates this huge head scratching moment for business owners of like, how do I build that depth? Do you think that there's any valid reason why builders that have 510, 15 years in the space aren't just, like, constantly recruiting, or don't have the same access to resources that you do? Or, I guess, like, how would you how would you communicate that to people that are like, dude, Tim's like, just got it made. He's got 25 years in the business. He's like, was a C level guy. He knows everyone. Like, it's just lining up. There's like, of course, excuse is going to be coming out of the listeners. What would you say they can do to combat that? Or how they could start looking at their market and their business to start developing this bench of talent? It it's it should be constant. This is as important to your business today as it has ever been. Everybody you come in contact with is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to build a relationship. It's an opportunity to identify your skill set, their skill set, whatever alignment, even you know, obviously that this business is, it's so tight knit, it's so close, you know, Jacksonville is the largest per square foot city in the United States of America. Really, we are huge. So we have micro markets within our market. You know, we're basically a Duvall county is Jacksonville, and Jacksonville is Duvall county in the four county surrounding area. You know, we're the, I think the third or fifth largest Home Builders Association in the country. So we have a huge network here at the northeast Florida Builders Association, extremely active group. So you got all those connections and relationships within the industry, and then trades, you know, we were a big market, so from almost South Georgia to the St Augustine, you know, south of us, you've got 50 to 100 miles of territory that we're covering, and you need, you need a lot of need, a lot of folks that can manage logistics from one micro market to another, just within our overall market. Totally. Okay, so you're just like, just like, essentially like, the muscle to build for the listeners out there is to start, if you're not already just looking at every person you get in contact as an opportunity, and you don't know when that opportunity is going to present itself, what do you advise, like tactically for The listener to consider in these conversations? And I'll let you answer that, but if you need more depth than where I'm coming from, I'll share it. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Again, I'm at an advantage because I've had so many relationships. I've also been in the market so long that I've vetted a ton of people over the years. So you know, there's certainly people that I've not had the best experiences with that. I'm likely not going to go back to On the flip side, I've identified all my key players and guys that have taken good care of me, and, more importantly, my clients, ultimately, when it's all said and done, you know, I think watching other people in the industry and where they're having successes. That was one of my big draws to your podcast to begin with. But just in general, in the industry overall, I watch what Nick Schaefer is doing up in Boston. I'm watching Brad leave it out in Arizona. I'm watching Patterson out in California. These are guys that are leading the industry and that are really ahead of the curve. And if I can model things that make sense for my business after the things that they're doing well and engaging, you know, really paying attention to what they're doing, watching their videos, watching their social media posts, listening to what they have to say, and then between that, and then just again, avid reading and engagement, taking those things. And then the practical, I think, to your point, the daily practical application. One thing that always just struck me with Patterson is how he really grabbed his group, his team of trades and subcontractors, very early on, got them bought in, and was just like, Let's ride I'm going to take care of you. I need you to take care of me. Here's the vision, here's what I expect, here's what you can expect, and let's just go do this as a team. And obviously he's had tremendous success for decades at this point, taking the same or. Approach. So then you find and build those relationships. The finding part is the hard part right now, obviously, so thankfully, I've got the core group that I don't really have to go dig and search for, but you're always trying to shore up, you know? You always want your B and your C players available as resources. To your point a little while ago about what happens if the guy No shows, or something happens, or he shutters the doors, or who knows what, or you get an acquisition, which has happened quite a bit here lately, with some of the mechanical trades, and all of a sudden what was one of your best trades goes to not anymore, right? So you got to adjust and adapt, and you better have that bench built, even with your sub base, to make sure that you've got the resources you need to support the build, to support the project, to support your client. Totally, totally, I think. I mean, just on this conversation. So I was in, I was just in Chicago this last well, yeah, this last weekend the contractor coalition Summit, which Nick Schiffer, Brad Levitt, Morgan, molotar, Tyler, Grace, Mark Williams, like they've come together, and they just, like, essentially curated this community to get in and, like, share all of these types of business practices and go deep into how they're actually operating. And I think, to your point, a lot of the recurring themes that I saw, whether it was pre con, selling pre con agreements to the client, right, talking about top of funnel, managing subs and relationships there, right? All driving towards like, how do we run more profitable projects? How do we ensure that we are making money and we're not, you know, assuming a 10% net and reality coming in at six, right? Like the general underlying theme between all of those is actually understanding the why and the intention, and that is going to breed the conviction, or the confidence in articulating that to the talent that we're recruiting the client that we're prospecting the subs that we're working with, and establishing that bench. And I think that's really where I'm going to is, I think the majority of people out there, they're going to listen to this episode and they're going to say, Well, Tim has 25 years of experience. He knew a lot of people like he was in a C level position. He could just tap them and bring them in. But I think what think what really you're saying is is because you understand the why, because you have that conviction, you can come through with an authentic story, a fully convicted story, and have that conversation with people. And it's not a poaching conversation, it's not this scrappiness, it's just an authentic story that you're like, hey, this is what I'm building. This is what you can expect. This is the vision. This is why it would be advantageous for you to come along and join the team. So I guess there's not really like, a follow up to that, as much as just like for the listener out there, start thinking about your intentions. Is your intention to be like scrappy and poach someone for self like, self interest, or is this to actually build a legitimate company that's impacting a community, that's driving value to the customer and the consumer and know that the long tail is going to take care of you? Yeah, and I think going back to the relationship side of engaging with people, I think, if you're your business owner, or you're a builder in general, if you are not on your job site and you are not talking to the individuals, I'm not talking about meeting the owner out there. I'm talking about those guys, the craftsmen, or the trades people that are hands on, doing the work if you were not engaging with them, learning their names, understanding who they are, where they came from, how you can support them. You're missing out. You are absolutely missing out, because those guys will make or break you in business, not only from a quality standpoint, from a caring standpoint, from a profitability standpoint. You know, there's plenty of guys out there that will just grip it and rip it and, you know, get in, get out, get on to the next thing as fast as possible in his ability. You want to certainly understand those motivations. And how are these guys making money? How are they making a living? How did they manage their profitability and successes? Because without that happening for them, then I'm in trouble as well. So understanding the fundamental function of what they're doing, why they're doing it, how they're doing it, and then making sure there's that alignment between what I'm looking for as the builder for my client. What does quality mean when you pull up and you see an apex home sign on a job site. I need you to act and think differently than whatever other job site you just came from. And here's why, I want you to go home at the end of the day and be proud of what you're doing, because I'm proud of what I'm doing, and I want my client to be ecstatic in this experience. And here's. How you're contributing to that. And I think taking that extra time, especially on the job site, with those hands on trade guys, to do that, to make sure they're clear on that messaging and that vision is just as important as your in house team that you've got on staff, totally well. And I think this is gold. This is, this is great because this is more of what the industry needs. But I'm also hearing like a lot of patience, a lot of servant leadership, a lot of, you know, doing it right from the beginning, being being focused on, you know, understanding where the dollars are generated and the money is made, and understanding that that's important for the people that are generating those dollars for your business. On the inverse, like, I see a lot of builders that like are essentially making, how do you put this? They're making like, fear based decisions. Or there are like outliers that are preventing them from settling down into a group of subs, talking to them, learning who they are. And they're just like, I gotta get this person in so that this task can get done, so I can get the job across the finish line. We can co it, and then I'm on to the next. And then it just creates this like, very surface level, kind of, like ugly relationship and process. What do you? What do you? How do you center yourself around? This is worth taking the process. This is the process to follow, to learn these people and prevent these fear based decisions from driving this, like, chaotic and erratic decision making. Yeah, it is surprising to me how watered down the word custom has become. There's plenty of national builders here locally. All of them are here in our market, but there's plenty of them that refer to themselves as custom builders, and they're not. They're mass producing production homes, maybe semi custom, where clients have a few more choices, but they're not custom by nature. Well, the reason I mentioned that is one of the defining drivers for me, in my opinion, of a custom home builder, is proactivity, and what you just referred to as reactivity. Fear based decision making is rooted in reactivity. So if you can be proactive in your vision and your message and your clarity and how you're presenting the job site to the next trade who's showing up, versus expecting them to show up, figuring out on their own, which, to your point, is far too commonplace in our industry, and then being unhappy, disappointed or surprised at The result you get, well, shame on you. That's reactive, versus being there to coach, support, guide, train, advise, do whatever you need to do to set that person up for success. I've always seen it as a selfish motivation to achieve what I'm trying to achieve. Ultimately, you know, I want the best experience for my client. I want the best quality I can possibly get, and the only way you can get that is through clear expectations, clear messaging and accountability. And you can only have that if you are physically present. I love it. This is great. I i Okay. So just as like a recap here, like, in the last six months, like, you've essentially just built in, like, the groundwork. For an extremely explosive and and successful business. I cannot wait to have you back on the podcast call it in, like, a year or so and and we can do like, a post mortem on this, and, like, see where you're at, because I think you're going to be an awesome builder to follow around. We're going to do so two things. So first, give the listeners like the number one thing to focus on, the biggest takeaway for them to consider in their business. And then the second, I want to know where builders can find you, follow you and follow your journey. Yeah, I think organization, especially written organization, you know, I always go back to people, because getting the right people in the right seats is absolutely fundamentally critical above all else. Because no matter how good your systems and processes are, no matter how detailed you are and how much attention you pay to your books, all that's out the window if you don't have the right people in the right seat. So that's that, to me, is really the key to where it all starts, in conjunction with making sure those folks are aligned with the vision and the goals of the company, how their role impacts and is affected by that vision and those goals, I think that just kicks everything off on the right foot. And again, that's whether it's in house or it's a subcontractor, or it's a marketing partner, or it's IT support. Everybody needs to understand what their role is and how they can be successful in supporting the success of the business. So that's, that's probably my, my key takeaway, we need more organization. We need we need more. It's. Set down, settle down, lean into a vision or be able to articulate it to a team. Build it. Build it into a KPI and OKR guys, no, this is beautiful. This is great. Okay. Tim, where can they? Where can, where can the listeners find you? Yeah, we've had a blast building my website so you can find us. It's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, Apex homes, fl.com, having a blast. It's continuing to grow and add content and all that good stuff. So find us there. We're on all the social media platforms, meta, you know, LinkedIn, house, we're all over the everywhere you're gonna find the folks in the home building industry, we're there. That's right. Okay. And guys, yeah, I literally, I just, I just shot you a follow, by the way. Okay, so yeah, his website's Apex homes. Fl.com, and I love the synergy and the consistency in your tags, because his Instagram is Apex homes plural. FL Tim, I appreciate you jumping on. I'll let you get back to your day, but can't wait to stay in touch with you, dude and follow your journey along. It's gonna be great, awesome. Thanks so much, Reece. You bet we'll see you, Tim.