The Most Dangerous Prayer You’ll Ever Pray | Jack Deere

The Joycast – 
What would happen if you prayed, “Holy Spirit, I want ALL of you”? Jack was a professor at Dallas Seminar who realized that some of his cherished arguments against miraculous gifts were based more on prejudice and a lack of personal experience than on the Bible. So he took a fresh look at the Scriptures, and invited the Holy Spirit into his life anew—just like we’re doing—and everything changed. 

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www.margaretfeinberg.com/joycast

Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
I'm Margaret Feinberg, and this is the joy cast. Welcome back, friends, and I am so glad you're here. If you're on my email list, then you may have heard me share the story that a few years ago, while battling cancer, I noticed that some of the covers of the greeting cards I received almost seemed tone deaf to the hardship I faced. I mean, saying in sympathy is a kind thing to do, but I wanted something more specific. Something more than just acknowledged where I waas and I needed voices of hope and life in the midst. One night I woke up, I think, prompted by the Holy Spirit. And suddenly I knew what some of those cards should say. I wrote down the words and immediately fell back asleep in the next morning, I woke up when I checked the mail. There was a note from a woman who prays for us regularly, and she wrote, I have been praying, and I really sense, why don't you create some greeting cards For those who are facing ongoing struggles in life? Well, that letter confirmed that the Holy Spirit had been at work in my life, compelling me to do something I'd never done before. And that was the birth of our best selling what to say when you don't know what to say. Greeting cards. Well, just this February, I felt like it was time to create some fresh card designs. And they returned from the printer in mid March just as the pandemic was sweeping across the U. S. When I opened them, I couldn't believe it. A total jaw drop moment. I mean, the messages. They're perfectly timed for such a time as this. Listen to this one. The cover says you are braver than you feel. You are stronger than you think. You are more inspiring than you realize. You are more adored than you know. And inside you are prayed for more than you can imagine. Or this one When people say impossible, you hear a personal challenge When others say the word, Can't you discover away when others call it quits? You've just begun And on the inside life is messy. Yet you're still holding on holding strong, brave, brilliant, beautiful You I am praying for you double time rooting for you like crazy. And so if you're looking for courageous inspiring words to send to those you love. Check out our new cards available exclusively at Margaret Feinberg store dot com. Friends. This is a time to be a people who speak life in part hope and rise up in this moment as joy Warriors. Now, most mornings you'll find me on Instagram in a segment we're currently calling Jammie time with Margaret. And since Easter, we've been focusing on a time in the church calendar known as Pentecost, and that Penta five or 50 it's that represents the 50 days between Christ Resurrection and the Holy Spirit arriving in power as described next to and I'm inviting you to spend these days praying, Holy Spirit, I want all of you in full anticipation and expectation off what he is doing. Why? Because during this time I think so many of us have been stripped of. Our idols are illusions the life as we once do it, many of the systems and the things that we put our trust in other than God. Well, I've been exposed and they're continuing to be revealed, and what I believe is that what is being revealed is are desperate indeed for God, for renewed sensitivity to the spirit of Christ in all of us. In fact, as I was praying about who to have on this episode of the Joy cast, one name came to mind. Jack, dear. You see, years ago I had read his books, surprised by the power of the spirit and surprised by the voice of God. You see, Jack was a professor at Dallas Seminary who realized that some of his cherished arguments against miraculous gifts were based more on prejudice and a lack of personal experience or exposure, but on the Bible. And so he took a fresh look at the Scriptures and invited the Holy Spirit into his life, a new just like we're doing and everything changed. I reached out to Jack's publicist and Wa la in just a few days, was on the phone and able to record this podcast for you and honestly for me, because in the story you're gonna get rich insights and some incredible stories. But there is a mike drop moment waiting for you at the end of this episode, in one of the most stunning examples of God's compassion, love, hope and provision, I believe it's gonna fill you with joy and hope now in a mighty way. So pull up a chair, Jack. It is such a delight toe, have you on the joy cast? Thanks,

spk_0:   5:35
Margaret. Thanks a lot for the

spk_1:   5:36
opportunity. You know, you have been a spiritual hero to me for so many years. I think it was probably around 19 Gosh, 93 or 94 when your original surprise by the spirit released and I read it and it just it spoke so much life and hope for me because I was someone who was just struggling to recognise, you know, the role of the Holy Spirit, the presence of the Holy Spirit. I remember spending probably about six months just reading everything by BB war field in various authors who are both, you know, for the fact that that miracles do happened today, and against that idea and wrestling through that I remember in the middle of the night one night I woke up and I sense just one passage come to mind. And it was Joel three, and I had no idea what it says. And I flipped open my Bible and that truth that, you know, in the last days. You know, my my daughters and sons, they will still have visions and dreams. That goddess still speaking. But But what you did is you created this incredibly rich book that provided a biblical framework for the fact that the Holy Spirit is still active and engaged today. Can you share a little bit with my listeners? Just about how that reality transitioned in your own life?

spk_0:   7:00
Yeah. So, um, Mohamed El Seminary guy actually was raised in a non Christian home. Ah, filled with tragedy and alcoholism. My mom and dad were at war. My, uh, father killed himself when I was 12 years old. I was the oldest of four kids and he left a 34 year old widow with 1/10 grade education to care for his four kids. And we just went south. You know, Mom couldn't Mom became a morning drinker. She couldn't control her sons. We were all in the road, toe alcoholism. We stole our clothes because we couldn't afford nice clothes. None of my friends were Christians. We never went to church. Um, we're just completely out of control. And And on december 18th 1965 I became a believer through the prayers and witness of my one smart friend who got converted and, uh, and that a young life leader disciple me it at all. I wanted to be with young life Leader and I came to Dallas Seminary just to learn the Bible, but it turned it out. Turned out that I was really gifted in Greek and Hebrew and Semitic languages, and I became a professor. Uh, early on it, it's 17. I didn't know a single verse of Scripture. At 27 I was a professor of Old Testament exit Jesus and Semitic languages at Dallas Seminary, which was a great place to study the Bible. But it was also probably one of the leading institutions to argue from theology and from the Bible that God was no longer doing miracles, that he wasn't healing anymore so he could do it one off healing but nothing like in the New Testament. So that's what I told all my students. I was totally against ah healing until I got challenged by a credible witness and I went back. And for the first time, this was in 1986. I hope so. My 10th year teaching And for the first time, I actually studied the Scripture at toe. Ask this one question. God, why did you hell in the first place? And after four months of intensive study, I saw that there were 10 to 12 reasons why got healed. None of them had anything to do with the transition from the Old Testament way of worship to the New Testament. They were all rooted in the eternal character of God. Like a major reason in the New Testament that Jesus heals is that he has compassion on the hurting. So if he's not healing any more word, that compassion go and and I was hit in the face with, like, 10 or 12 of those kinds of reasons reasonings. And after about four months, I believe that God was healing today and that I should be praying for the sick even though I wasn't doing that, Um, And then he sent credible, uh, teachers into my life who were really gifted healers and help me learn how to pray for the sick. But I didn't come to healing because I heard a voice or had some spiritual experience. Uh, I saw somebody healed. I came to it first. Surely, through a belief and what the Scriptures were teaching,

spk_1:   9:57
I think there are many who listen in and think. Okay, I I mentally can give belief that God heals, but he just won't heal me or he just doesn't want to use me to help heal others. What would you say to that person?

spk_0:   10:15
Um, well crave for 50 people. He didn't see what happens after that. But, you know, you don't know how he's going to use you. Maybe you don't have the gift of feeling, but you don't know how he's gonna use you until you step out and try. And also, this is really important. The environment you're in, the spiritual environment you're in makes a lot of difference about whether you're going to see supernatural healing. So it Dallas Seminary. I never saw a miracle. I never heard a teacher tell one story about a person being healed in response to prayer. And I was in that environment for almost 20 years when I went to Anaheim, California, and went on the staff of, uh, John Wimmer's church, the Vineyard Christian Fellowship. When I wanted staff of his church, I saw healing every week. It was amazing. So the environment you're in, what people believe in their practices are super important for Ah, uh, you know how successful you'll be when you pray for people. And also bring for yourself is probably the least effective way of getting healed. Um, you know, in my family, when we get sick, always ask our friends to pray for us. Um, I know 1000 reasons why God shouldn't heal me, right? And, uh, but but my friends don't feel that way about me. They have a love for me in a faith for me that I can't really have for myself. So it's important to have people pray for you when you're seeing, not just pray for yourself.

spk_1:   11:44
What about somebody? You've mentioned the idea and I love this. Go out and pray for 50 people. Let's see if perhaps that is a gift that God has given you what wisdom just practically do you have for someone who may be starting to pray for others for the first time.

spk_0:   11:57
Well, I would, uh it's like everything else. You know, if you want to learn how to study the Bible, you don't just pick up a Bible. You You mean you do pick up a Bible, but you probably read something from others who learn more about studying the Bible. So you want to find a mentor, a teacher. Whether it's through a book, it's best to have a hands on disciple who prays for the sick teach you. But rather than just launching out and praying for people, I mean, if that's all you can do, do it. But it's really good to have some sort of mentor, either in a book or in a hands on way to help you. I learned so much from standing beside John Whimper and watching him pray for people, Uh, market I I stood beside him and saw blind eyes open. It was amazing where I go to a conference and I watch somebody carried in on a cot and Wimmer would in women. I was sitting on the front row. He was gonna be speaking. This was in Australia, 6000 people at the conference, and this lady gets carried in a cot, goes right by, say, set her down in front of the stage. Ah, and whimper turns to me and smiles and says she's got faith to be healed. She'll be walking before this night's over and she danced out of there. I mean, having a mentor like that was one of the most important things in my life. Teaching me out of here, the voice of God teach me how to pray for people. It just gave me a great deal of confidence. And

spk_1:   13:20
I think one of those books is this book. I mean, what's wonderful is you've just re released it. Ah, why? I'm still surprised by the power of the spirit. And throughout it I kept finding examples and just these little mentions Ah, sides almost is. You are moving through the storytelling and the rich biblical examination of those moments when you would have, you know, just kind of a word come to your mind or and just just keep asking, God, what are you saying about that? What is this and being brave to say those things out loud even when there didn't appear to be any responsible?

spk_0:   13:53
Yeah, and and that's really I rewrote the book. This is not like a revision or updating, one of my friends said. I'm not going to get that book your publishers just ah, our issue get under a different name so they can make more money and I don't know, it's actually I rewrote the whole book. It's a 70 80% new book. When I wrote the first book in 1993 had only been praying for the sick for about six years. Now I've got more than 1/4 century experience, and there were so many practical things that I didn't get in the in the first book. So eso, for instance, if you pray for the sick, is a way of life. I mean, if this is something you do just like you witness to people is a way of life. You're going to see demons and we never hunted for demons. We had no experience in casting out demons. We would just pray if we would just be praying for a sick person. Power would come up on them and they might start shaking. Or in one case, a person says so. And I said, what? And they said I just felt something run across my chest. It was it was a demonic power that the power of the Lord was making reveal itself And so we started casting out demons. Well, I didn't put any of that in the in the first book. What do you do when a demonic power manifest itself? How do you get rid of it? And a lot of Christians are scared of demons. I mean, you just mentioned demons and they start shaking or they their face goes downcast. And we're the ones with all the power, not the demons. Jesus nor the Apostles ever showed the slightest fear of a demonic power and they cast them out. And so there's two chapters in the book really practical. How did people come under demonic influence? How do you set them free? Uh, none of that was in the, uh, first book. So there's a lot of practical stuff a ton of new stories like that I counted the other day there 32 news stories in this book that that all reveals something about the nature of healing because I've had so much more experienced than when I wrote the first book.

spk_1:   15:59
I finished actually reading the entire book this morning and have been enjoying it all week. One of the things that I noticed is this this invitation to kind of this deep friendship with Holy spirit Ah, that people aren't often exposed to. You know, it's a the third, you know, facet of the Trinity, but it's almost like Holy Spirit rides almost in the trunk. You know, bitterness. It put in a safe patted cage. Don't want him out too much, cause or, you know, somebody could abuse that. What does it look like to nurture? Ah, friendship with Holy Spirit?

spk_0:   16:31
Margaret, you're so right. And it's not just that people don't know about the Holy Spirit or that they're afraid of the Holy Spirit. It's actually far worse than that. People go their whole Christian life and never understand that Jesus wants to be friends with them. You know, in John, 15 15 he told the apostles, I no longer call you servants, but friends. It's not like they were gonna be servants anymore, but what he was saying is, we're taking your service toe a whole new level. Now I want you to be servants who are friends. Ask yourself what the essence of friendship is. It's not about service, although we'll serve our best friend in a heartbeat. That's not even a question, but that's not why I'm best friends with my best friends. I'm best friends with this one person because of the pleasure I have when I'm with them and because of the way I feel loved by this person. I feel special in a way when I'm with my best friend that I don't feel with anyone else, and Jesus says, I want to take you beyond mere service. I want you to feel my pleasure in you. I want you to enjoy me. I want you to feel my affection, how much I love you. And I think that's the biggest lack in the church today is people will say, Ah, I know God loves me but not very many people feel the love of God. When I was a young life leader, I can't tell you how many young young guys, high school students. I would say they would stare at the ground and they would say, I know my father loves me. Their voice would go down, their eyes would go down and I'm thinking, if that's really true, why are you so sad when you say that sentence and I see Christians do that all the time. Oh, I know God loves me and they say it with this, like four lawn O. R. Wistful matters. And what they're saying is I have a theoretical knowledge that God loves me. I read it in the Bible, but I don't have any really experience of it. And when I wrote that first book, I do not understand this. I was still thinking you got speaking to me because he wants to show me how to pray for people. I didn't really understand that he's pursuing me, uh, to become friends with me and really wants me to feel eyes, affection. And gradually, over the years, I became the most important thing in my life. Feeling the affection of Jesus, praying for it. You can't love someone that you think is irritated with you and most Christians, Maybe not. I think I'll stick with it. Most Christians I know go through life feeling like God is really irritated with him because they know better. They're doing things they know they should do. And the reason he hasn't struck them down is because it's an open question that they might change one day. Most Christian spend their life like that, never realizing that the performance is never going to be all that awesome or great. But it doesn't have to be to feel the affection of Jesus, and they don't know how to feed it. They don't know how to pray for it. No one's ever told him about it. And so that theme permeates the whole book from the beginning to the end. Because I think it's the most important thing in life

spk_1:   19:44
for the person listening and saying, You know what, Jack? I've never felt that. How do I feed that relationship? How do I What are some practical steps just to begin nurturing that relationship?

spk_0:   19:56
There's really only one. Everything starts with prayer from from a human perspective. And I'm not talking about God's mercy and his initiatives and all that. But this farce, what I can do, the most important thing I do is not studied the Bible. Most important thing I do is pray, you know? James said it great, he said, You have not because you ask, not and and so I make. I make it a point every single day to start out the day asking for the big things I'm gonna ask for little things I'm gonna ask for material needs to know that. But I'm gonna start with the very biggest thing and I pray Ephesians 3 16 to 19. It's one of the great apostolic prayers where just quote a part of the verse where Paul is praying for God to root him and establish him and the love of Jesus so that he might experience the full measure of God's goodness and pleasure. Um, everything starts with prayer. So there was a time I didn't feel loved by God. I started praying it and now there's hardly I'm not going to say every day I have some kind of experience of his affection, but it would be rare to go a week and not have some kind of riel definitive expression of his affection. Often where I cry or I laugh and I just say Thank you. Thank you, thank you. So start with prayer. That's the number one thing. Just take take a great prayer like Ephesians 3 16 to 16 to 19. And by the way, take that prayer. But also look at the other opposite Olic prayers. Make a list of the prayers and Scripture and the ones that just kind of leap off the page that you just pray those everyday put him on a list and memorize them and just pray him every single day and you will see God starts sneaking into your life. And the most amazing ways he loves to surprise his Children. He loves to tell us Children and creative ways that he loves them.

spk_1:   21:58
So true. Many molesters, no, Probably has been over maybe a year. You're in 1/4 now. I began just praying every day. Holy Spirit. I want all of you

spk_0:   22:08
Here you go

spk_1:   22:09
and watching and being sensitive. And even in the past week, I, you know, just spent time we spend I want I want all of you. I want experience, all of you. And it was the funniest thing, cause I had my my task list, my to do list trying to create structure and a crazy quarantine cove in world and and and I just sensed like, don't don't look at that. Look at me and I'm gonna I'm gonna task that you're supposed to do You write down on a different piece of paper and it looked like too much to do. And by the end of the day, it was all done. But it was kind of laid out in a different way that I would have done it on. I'm like, Thank you. Thank you, Holy Spirit. Thank you. That you you want my whole day. You want my whole schedule? You want my whole heart. You want my that that living, vibrant relationship is accessible to all of us. Well, that's great. So one of the things that I'm curious about is you also wrote a book sharing about some of your the darker seasons in life and is even in our darkness. Can you tell us more about that in just how that kind of applies today, actually, in the unique situation we find ourselves in?

spk_0:   23:15
Yeah. That's the book I wanted to write for Ah, almost 30 years and couldn't figure out a way to do it. And then I decided to write, write a memoir, but to do an unsanitized memoir unsanitized version of the Christian life. Pre preachers like may we stand on a stage and we tell these great stories about ourselves and we make ourselves look better than we really are. And I did that for a few years without understanding how much damage I was doing because I was creating, um, impression or a vision of the Christian life that didn't really exist. And so I'm telling these great stories about myself, um, and people are listening to it and they're thinking, man, that's not true. My life. I don't experience God like that. Ah, there must be something wrong with my experience. And so it teaches them that their experience was not really authentic, That there shouldn't be this major struggle in the Christian life that they're going through. And it teaches them to go underground with their sin. Ah. And so when finally I got around to doing the member I said, I'm not gonna write. Uh, I'm not going to write a story like that. I'm gonna tell about way I've really lived life. I'm gonna tell about the sins struggles, um, and how God loves me in spite of the sinfulness that things I do wrong. So I make confessions in there that Christian leaders don't confess, and, uh, I'm 70 years old, right? And so nobody is gonna fire me these days. I work for myself If you get in and some people have got offended, I mean, they go Oh, yeah. You know, that guy's a center. Well, that's true. I am. I totally confess. I am, um and I don't live the Christian life. Very well. Um, my performances, subpart best. Always gonna be that way in this life. I'm not gonna be perfect till I step into his. This presents so fine. I don't mind. You rejected me, but other people read it and they get they get so much hope by the Holy Spirit. You know, one of the things I talk about this how how God loves you at the lowest worst point of your life. I'll just tell you 11 illustration that the most painful thing that ever happened to us was our second born son. From the time he was probably 12 he was on drugs and he found him in the church parking lot and did the normal progression from marijuana to stronger stuff. Cocaine tried heroin and we had gone to rehab. You've been a rehab for seven months. Uh, when he was 22 we finally thought he had turned the corner and me. I brought him home to Montana to live with us. And then I was going to get him into school. Ah, the night after Christmas, on December 26th to the year 2000 Scott mixed five things that you that none of them are lethal by themselves. But when you put them together, they will. They form a ah, they formed the former drug that will take you into a psychosis and potentially take your life. And that night, he shot himself in her home in Montana. About five in the morning. I heard the shot. I thought I was dreaming. So I didn't go into this room. I went into his room. Ah, eight oclock that morning and I found him. He had shot himself in the head with the 44 Magnum that we kept in our kitchen in our kitchen drawer to scare away bears that came up on our mountain. We lived in a mountain in Montana and ah, the four of us, Lisa at me by firstborn son Steven and our daughter Elise. We gathered around this body. We laid our hands on him. I held his shattered head in my hands and we prayed for God to bring him back to life. And we said, uh, we're going to pray until God gives him back to us or the police come and make us leave. And after about 30 minutes, the police came, made us leave, and we went in to a darker, more unforgiving world than I had ever known or ever imagined. Uh, I thought I was gonna lose Lisa to insanity. She went so far down this pit of grief, I thought she wasn't gonna come back. And there was nothing to say. I mean, you can't You can't talk somebody out of that kind of grief and there's there's no platitudes. Um, once you've seen and gone through something like that, it is just absolutely horrendous in we couldn't spend another night in her home. We went back to Fort Worth that that's my home. That's where 30 year friends were the people that knew Scott from the time he was a little boy. And, uh, we lived in the in this huge home of one of our friends who just said, Come on, you're living with us. From now on, you take this side. We'll take that. I will grow old together. You don't have to do another thing the rest of your life. And they provided everything force. And that's where the four of us stayed for two months. It's been it been two months. I hadn't gone to church. People like me go to church because you have something to say. I didn't have anything to say. I'm still trying to figure out if prayers even important, I mean, trade more for my son. Then I trade for any other living person, and tohave tend to lose him like that. When I thought he had turned the corner was just a blow. I didn't know if I would ever recover from it. I didn't know if I'd ever stand on stage and give another message. Um, so we were there for two months. No church, just with our closest Christian friends in this church from Amarillo called It was a church that I was on staff at Sets a town in the northwest corner of Texas. Up in the Panhandle Big church, 5000 people. I went there every month spoke Ah went to all their elder meeting, so it's quasi on staff there? Um, they called and they said l And by the way, they were in the middle of a big conference in every single pastor of the church stopped and came to stop their conference and came to our sons. You know, that's how close I was to all these people. So they called, and they said all the senior pastor's ago got a really important guest here this week. Um, super famous. We have nobody to introduce him. Could you just come for 24 hours and introduce him and then and you will be away from Lisa for 24 hours? Um, we need we need the two services on Saturday afternoon and the two on Sunday morning. Fly in, fly right back. And Lisa said Go, Honey, I've got Stephen release here. I'll be fine. That church has been so wonderful to us. Just go. So I went What? Saturday afternoon, five oclock service service is over, and afterwards I'm standing out the front there, 50 people down on the front of the church and they're praying for people. Um, but I'm not praying for anybody. I just always stood down there with him. I used I was spring for people with. But today I'm not praying for anyone. This is my first time to be back in church after I lost after we lost Scott, I look over to my right and I see this pretty blonde lady. She's leading a person by the hand. I can't tell if the person is a man or a woman, a boy or girl, because the person has no face have been she. All of a sudden she's leading him straight to May, and whether should have been eyes air, these two slits, that air just sewn shut. Where there should have been a knows. There's this twisted gaggle. Flesh is, looks horrendous. Whether should have been a mouth. There's this misshapen hole, and then there's a permanent trait tube coming out the throat, and she leads this person right to me. She comes up and says, Hi, my name's Michelle. This is my son, Aaron. Six weeks ago, he put a shotgun under his chin and pulled the trigger. It didn't kill him, but it's taken multiple surgeries to get him to this point. I actually, she said six months ago, it's taken multiple surgeries to get him to this point, he doesn't believe in God. He's come here because I asked him to. Would you pray for my son? That was my first time to be back in church after losing my son. I look at look at that boy and I say, Erin, my name's Jack. Would you like me to pray for you? And he puts his finger over the trade tube so the air will go up his vocal cords and he says, Yes, I put Want my put my left hand over his heart As soon as my right hand touches his back, I feel power come down from heaven. It starts in my head. It ripples down my neck all the way down my back and my legs, and it's vibrating throughout my body. And I know exactly what I'm going to say. I don't even have to think about. That's a Erin. My son pulled the trigger at Christmas, but he didn't make it. You've been spared because God has purposes for your life if you want them. And then ah, Michelle just began to stop and sob. She was saying, I'm so sorry. I know. I didn't know you were the pastor Whose son? If I'm just so sorry. And I see Michelle's don't cry. You haven't done anything wrong. God made this appointment. You're supposed to be here. Um and so I went back and finished the prayer over Aaron. And then I prayed for Michelle had exactly the same experience. And then I watched those two walk away, and I looked up to heaven, and I said, God, you are amazing. Nobody writes stories like you do. I knew exactly what he was telling me. He was saying to me, Jack, stay with me and those places I broken you. If you'll stay with me, I will heal them. And I will give you power to help the hopeless toe lift them out of despair. I don't I'm not sure there is a moment in my life where I ever felt more loved by God than I did at that moment. Right there. He is so amazingly creative in the way he tells us he loves us. Um, no. And won a dent into the story. I tried to find, uh, Michelle and Aaron. After that, I heard they've been on Oprah and I tried to find him I couldn't find him. And I put this story and even in our darkness, and I said, You know, somebody's going to say that's a fake I just made it up And so I really want to find him. And I found him on Ah, found him. They live in Austin, Texas. Erin after that became a believer, and he goes around all these youth groups telling a story today. It was amazing.

spk_1:   34:02
Wow! Wow! Incredible In credible. And so there is so much hope. There is so much power. Um, I feel like as we move through this season of cove, it and it will pass. It will pass, but at the end that so many of us are going to need healing.

spk_0:   34:23
Yeah, true. So somebody asked me. They go. What are you doing differently now that Kobe cheered on go? Nothing, absolutely nothing. That this doesn't change a thing. Now, remember when I was really young reading an essay by C. S. Lewis in Ah, it's one of the great essay books ever called The Weight of Glory. He had five essays in there, and one of them was an essay on learning and wartime because people were. This was in World War Two when he wrote the essay and people were saying, How can you justify teaching at Oxford when people are going to war and getting killed? How can you justify going to the university? And I want a paraphrase Lewis, this is my paraphrase for the cove in 19 thing of what Lewis said, neither war nor pandemics increased the frequency of death for 100% of us will die. But the great service the pandemic does for us is it forces us to think about death, to think about how short our time is on earth and that confront us with the fact that all of our schemes of happiness that air centered in this world have always been doomed to a final frustration. That's the benefit of covert 19. It's not making death more frequent. We're all gonna die, but it makes It confronts us with death in a way that gets us to say what is really important and and what is really important. It's standing before the throne of God and hearing Jesus say, well done, my good and faithful servant. That's the most important day of a Christian's life and the way I live right now, whether there's where there's the pandemic or whether we're ultimate prosperity. Um, the way I live right now is going to affect whether I get to hear him say, Well done, my good and faithful servant. That's what I'm living for, the good and the bad. That's what I'm living

spk_1:   36:20
for. So good. One of the things that we always ask him a joy cast is just for a recipe for life or for faith, or for cooking, or what wisdom Azzawi come to a close. Would you like to give

spk_0:   36:33
to our listeners? I think make the most important thing that you do every day, pray and pray to feel the affection of God and and toe level or Jesus with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Your neighbors yourself and the border is really important. We've got to feel the affection of Jesus before we can love him with all of our heart and soul. It's important for the great great commission that it's important for the great commandment. Feel the affection of a Lord Jesus.

spk_1:   37:07
Thank you, Jack. And thank you so much for being on the joy cast.

spk_0:   37:11
Oh, thank you for having me. It's been a total pleasure talking to you, Margaret.