In their sweariest episode yet, Tami and Dash have Eurovision expert Alon Amir answer all your ignorant questions about the epic and surprisingly political song contest. Plus, Yom Hashoah, the university protest encampments and a Hebrew pronunciation faux pas.
SHOW NOTES
TJI articles discussed in this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/in-defence-of-dancing-again
‘Three Minutes of Eternity’ By Alon Amir. Available on Amazon.
Email your feedback, questions, show ideas etc: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
(You can also email voice memos here).
Subscribe to The Jewish Independent's bi-weekly newsletter: jewishindependent.com.au
Tami and Dash on Instagram: tami_sussman_writer_celebrant and dashiel_and_pascoe
X: TJI_au
YouTube: thejewishindependentAU
Facebook: TheJewishIndependentAU
Instagram: thejewishindependent
LinkedIn: the-jewish-independent/
In their sweariest episode yet, Tami and Dash have Eurovision expert Alon Amir answer all your ignorant questions about the epic and surprisingly political song contest. Plus, Yom Hashoah, the university protest encampments and a Hebrew pronunciation faux pas.
SHOW NOTES
TJI articles discussed in this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/in-defence-of-dancing-again
‘Three Minutes of Eternity’ By Alon Amir. Available on Amazon.
Email your feedback, questions, show ideas etc: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
(You can also email voice memos here).
Subscribe to The Jewish Independent's bi-weekly newsletter: jewishindependent.com.au
Tami and Dash on Instagram: tami_sussman_writer_celebrant and dashiel_and_pascoe
X: TJI_au
YouTube: thejewishindependentAU
Facebook: TheJewishIndependentAU
Instagram: thejewishindependent
LinkedIn: the-jewish-independent/
There's swear words in this episode, so kids are not allowed to listen to it.
Speaker 2:Are you ashamed to admit that you're not across all of the issues affecting Jews in Australia, the Middle East and the world at large? I'm Tammy Sussman and in this podcast series I ask the Jewish Independence Executive Director, dashiell Lawrence, all the ignorant questions that I, and maybe you, are too embarrassed to ask.
Speaker 3:I'm Dash Lawrence and I'm going to attempt to answer most of Tammy's questions in the time that it takes you to get to the front of the queue for Huller at Zelda Bakery on a Friday morning.
Speaker 2:Dash, that's your first little sponsorship insertion into the show.
Speaker 3:Continue. Thanks, Tammy. Sometimes I might have to bring in an expert and sometimes I might have a few questions of my own.
Speaker 2:But together, Dash and I are going to try to cut through the week's chewiest and jewiest topics.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Jewish Independent Podcast. A Shame to Admit. Thanks for downloading this episode, episode six of season one of A Shame to Admit. I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent.
Speaker 2:And I'm Tammy. Hebrew name Rivka Sussman. Do you have a Hebrew name, dash?
Speaker 3:Ooh, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Your in-laws haven't endowed you with one.
Speaker 3:No, I'm just thinking. When we had the bris for the boys, there was obviously the prayers are read and the Hebrew names are used for the children and then for the parents as well. I can't remember what Hebrew name I got.
Speaker 2:Okay, I reckon it would have been David, but like they would have shortened it to Dudu, you know, like how they do in Israel. You know, like Dudu Fisher, the cantor, the singer, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dudu Lawrence.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I reckon that's your Hebrew name. We should let our listeners know that we are recording on the 2nd of May. It's a really special day today. It's David Beckham's birthday today, david. Hebrew name Dudu Beckham.
Speaker 3:He's got a Jewish grandparent. Are you serious? Yeah, didn't you know that? No, yeah, but then againparent, are you serious?
Speaker 2:Yeah, didn't you know that? No, yeah.
Speaker 3:But then again, tammy, yes, all of us have at least one Jewish grandparent.
Speaker 2:That's a pretty big claim to make.
Speaker 3:It'll be a conversation for another episode, perhaps when we delve into my family history.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say it's just a little preview of season two maybe, but we'll just leave that one there to ferment.
Speaker 3:Happy birthday to Bex, who I believe is turning 49 today.
Speaker 2:How do you know that?
Speaker 3:Hey, I'm a child of the 1990s and of English football.
Speaker 2:Happy birthday, doo-doo, doo-doo Beckham. Friend of the pod, avid listener of this show.
Speaker 3:Well, it's been quite the week in the world of the Chewy Dewey subject matter. There have been a number of pro-Palestinian solidarity protest encampments established at the University of Melbourne, at Monash University, been ongoing protests at Sydney's universities as well, and this has led Jewish students to establish their own counter rallies, which I understand have been the subject of some unfortunate and quite heated confrontations between the two groups. So we hope that that tension subsides and that university campuses are once again a place that is safe for Jewish students.
Speaker 2:And then particularly alarming was some footage that came out of an academic in Sydney who was encouraging kinder to primary age kids to chant Intifada. And Israel is a terror state, israel is haram and Arab land. Did you not see that in Melbourne?
Speaker 3:No, I didn't when in Sydney was this?
Speaker 2:Sydney University.
Speaker 2:It was quite shocking. I'm ashamed to admit I didn't realize that intifada was like a word that was used outside of the Jewish community, because I grew up going to a Jewish school where I remember in the noughties there were intifadas and there were people who I knew who were losing people to suicide bombers. So I just was really quite I don't use the word triggered lightly, but I just found myself getting like really unsettled by that. So the world is upside down. Then I was sent an article in the Age which was reporting about these protests at Sydney Uni and there was a quote by E-Kaj and then the co-CEO of the Jewish Council of Australia was quoted. I found this all really weird, mostly because the Jewish Council of Australia, I feel like, maybe represents three Jews in Australia. I don't know how many do you think they represent. Just put a number out there.
Speaker 3:Well, they certainly can't claim to represent anyone more than the handful of individuals that are attached to them officially, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I just found that really odd that the age had gone to them for a quote. I didn't really quite know how to put my I guess confusion slash concern over this into words, but Dean sure did. I read his piece in the Jewish Independent. He wrote an article called the Rise of Fringed Jewish Voices Turns Advocacy into a Personality Contest, and I really encourage our listeners to read that article. He says it does not serve the community to have spokespeople clamoring over each other for comment on every story, and it is clearly farcical when new ideologically charged organizations deliberately choose vague, official sounding names like the Australian Jewish Association or the Jewish Council of Australia in a transparent attempt to boost their credibility in the public sphere. Now I remember in a previous episode I asked you if you thought that the JCA had chosen that name on purpose to confuse people. We thought that maybe that was a conspiracy theory, but people are really angry still about this choice of name really angry still about this choice of name.
Speaker 3:Yeah, clearly I think Dean articulates some of the misgivings and some of the discomforts that I know I, but I'm sure many others have about this question of who gets to speak on behalf of Australia's Jewish community, and he really illuminates the problem of these organisations that carry names that make them seem quite conventional or quite- Legitimate would be the word.
Speaker 3:That's right, but in actual fact, that's really not fair. It's really not quite acting in good faith to carry a name that gives the impression to the wider public that this is a representative body, when it's, you know, in the case of the Jewish Council of Australia, in the case of the Australian Jewish Association Council of Australia, in the case of the Australian Jewish Association, they most definitely are not and instead they carry a strong, clear ideological dimension to their work, to their advocacy, to their campaigning, to their public commentary. And, yeah, dean has done a great job of distilling the discomforts that many of us have and making sense of what the problem is.
Speaker 2:Well said Dash. We are preparing for Yom HaShoah on Sunday begin Sunday night and I felt that this day needed to be acknowledged in this podcast, because I take Yom HaShoah very seriously in this podcast. Because I take Yom HaShoah very seriously and in the last few years I've noticed that my personal focus has really shifted from intergenerational trauma to intergenerational resilience, and I've struggled for years to put my feelings around this day into words, but I've managed to do that for the first time this year. So an article that I've written will be on the platform by the time this podcast goes to air.
Speaker 3:I have managed to read it before it's been published, Tammy, and it's a really moving account that I think will really resonate with many of your generation. Oh, thanks Dash, it's also funny Also terrific photo of Pizza Hut in the early 90s.
Speaker 2:Which many of our Sydney listeners will identify from their youth.
Speaker 3:On the topic of family history, tammy, I did find some quite juicy background material on one, edward Lakofsky. For those of you who don't know who Edward is, go back to our last episode, episode five. I'll leave my discovery, though, tammy, for next week.
Speaker 2:And just to let our listeners know, I don't know what this is. Dash is keeping it as a surprise, so I'm both excited and terrified.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm going to reveal something that just may completely that may have you rethink the entire narrative of your family history. It's going to shatter myths and illusions.
Speaker 2:Was he a bushranger?
Speaker 3:It's all coming in episode seven. Was he a bushranger? No, he was not a bushranger. That's disappointing, all right. Author and owner of a successful PR and management company for singers and songwriters in Israel, and a Eurovision expert.
Speaker 2:That's important because the Eurovision Song Contest begins at 5am on Wednesday, the 8th of May. Dasha's just changed the script last minute. I love it because it was Eastern. It was originally Wednesday the 8th of May, 5 am Eastern Australian time.
Speaker 3:No, you didn't even have Australian time in there. You didn't even mention that it was-.
Speaker 2:Oh Dash has written bagel belt time, which is just perfect.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes so for those of you that want to catch Eurovision this year, you'll have to get up very early on Wednesday morning.
Speaker 2:Okay and look. I understand that some of our listeners might think that Eurovision is a bit of a frivolous topic to be unpacking with everything else going on in the world, but in the same way, that we Will Dance Again is becoming a rallying cry of resilience for Israelis and Jews around the world. Many Jewish people perceive music and song as like a legitimate way to process their grief, to pray for the return of the hostages and enter the war in Gaza. Perhaps, not surprisingly, this year's Israeli representative, Eden could be. Eden Golan and her song Hurricane has been the subject of international criticism and controversy and it was potentially going to face expulsion, and we wanted to find out why and what we can expect from Israel's participation at a time of heightened tensions.
Speaker 3:So here's our interview with Alon Amir.
Speaker 2:Alon, thank you again for joining us.
Speaker 5:My pleasure.
Speaker 2:What has been your role in Eurovision in Israel's delegation?
Speaker 5:Oh, how much time do we have? I started doing Eurovision since before God, and that was in 1995. I was head of press of the Israeli delegation, but not just. I was also head of press for Belarus and Slovakia. Press of the Israeli delegation, but not just. I also had a press for Belarus and Slovakia. I was an executive producer, manager of artists, journalist. I've done it all ever since 95.
Speaker 2:I'm ashamed to admit I'm not all over the history of Eurovision, and particularly Israel's involvement in it. So how long has Eurovision been around, and when did Israel become part of the competition?
Speaker 5:Well, the Eurovision was established by the European Broadcasting Union back in 56, after World War II, in order to unite Europe. Israel joined the competition back in 73. So it's been 51 years for us, for Israel, and almost 70 years for the Eurovision, which is the biggest musical event in the world, and it's a monster. Until you take part in Eurovision backstage, behind the scenes, you don't understand what it takes to mount something. It's absolutely mind-blowing to understand what it takes to make it happen.
Speaker 3:How do Israelis relate to Eurovision? Do a big proportion of the country really get behind the entrant for that year? Give us some idea of how Israelis relate to their entrance each year.
Speaker 5:It all depends on the era. Back in the 70s, 80s, everybody watched it. We had one TV channel, so that was it. That. In the 70s, 80s, everybody watched it. We had one TV channel, so you know, that was it. That was the thing. So it was huge. And you know, back in the 70s and 80s we were doing fantastically well in Eurovision. We had won twice. I came second twice. We were doing very well. Songs from Eurovision became huge hits in Israel. I'm working, for example, with Anne-Marie David, who had bought Eurovision for Luxembourg back in 73, and that was the first year Israel took part. Wow, she has a huge name here thanks to Eurovision. And then in the 90s, like almost in every other country in Europe, eurovision kind of lost its shine, the glamorous side of it. But then, thanks to Germany, the televotes were introduced to Eurovision.
Speaker 5:So the public had a say that was the year that Israel had won the.
Speaker 1:International.
Speaker 5:So we won the televotes, obviously, and we won the contest. But since it was the first year that the televotes system was introduced, every country had a backup jury. In the backup juries, israel finished sixth. Dana International and Diva was a huge hit. Huge hit all over Europe. Like absolutely amazing, this song had changed everything when it comes to LGBTQ rights in Israel. It changed everything for the better, so Eurovision really helped us in Israel that way. This is why I love Eurovision. It's not just a song competition.
Speaker 6:In case you are ashamed to admit that you have no fucking idea who Dana International is. She is an Israeli performer, a trans woman, who was chosen to represent Israel in the 1998 Eurovision Song Contest in Birmingham. Orthodox Jews and others with conservative views were opposed to the choice and attempted to void her participation in the contest. Dana performed Diva at the Eurovision final and won the contest.
Speaker 3:Thanks, dan. It seems like you're touching on something about the way that Eurovision can act to give countries something to aspire to and for it to be a platform to the international community, effectively of the country culturally, and an opportunity for that country to put their best foot forward. Is that, am I overstating that, to say that Eurovision historically has had that opportunity and that's why it's been sort of quite highly regarded by some. Listen, the Eurovision when it was established, one of the first rules was no politics.
Speaker 5:And it lasted like four years and then it all went down the hill and into the drain and it's the most political event in the world and countries have been using that platform very well and I'll give you a couple of examples. Estonia won with the worst ever Eurovision winning entry. That was shit. But anyway, back in those days it was a negotiation with the EU about joining the EU and they used Eurovision and the event and they hosted it in the best possible way to show Europe we belong with you and it did help them join into the EU. Hosted it in 2011. The slogan was fill your heartbeats in order to remind Europe that Germany is the center and the heart of Europe.
Speaker 5:You know small little things, but also Israel had been using the Eurovision to send messages, whether it's inside, you know, within the country or outside, and I'll give you a couple of examples. Back in 1983, when Germany hosted the Eurovision in Munich, israel sent a song called Chai alive with the words I'm Israel, chai. So to sing that on German soil, and the backup dancers were wearing yellow. That's the most emotional thing as an Israeli and as a Jewish person and as a descent of Holocaust survivor. You know, come on, that's. It gives me the shivers. It's so amazing.
Speaker 4:Hi, it's Tammy's friend, Jack, the voice of the non-Jew in all of you. In case it's not obvious to all the listeners, the reason it was significant for Jews to be wearing yellow in Germany is because it's the same color as the Star of David patches that the Jews were forced to wear during the Holocaust by the Nazis.
Speaker 5:And back in 2009, after yet another war with Gaza, we sent a song called there Must Be Another Way by Noah Mirawad.
Speaker 1:There must be another, must be another way.
Speaker 5:An Israeli, a Palestinian Israeli, and I was the head of press that year and it was a campaign about the message of the song. We didn't really care about Eurovision. We had a message to convey and we had the support of Sir Paul McCartney and we did like 300 interviews A lot of them were to Arabic media. We got so many messages from people, ordinary people in Iraq and Iran and Yemen and Syria saying we didn't know Israelis like you exist. We were taught that Israel is the enemy and suddenly we see that it's not true, that some of you are saying different things, that we need to coexist. That was so emotional and we used the Eurovision for that.
Speaker 2:Amazing. So it's like you find little loopholes, in a sense, to get a political message across.
Speaker 5:Of course, and we're not the only ones, by the way.
Speaker 3:But yeah, clearly it makes the point that this is not just a bit of fun, an opportunity to dress up and to move your body around in funny ways and create a song that's memorable for maybe one year. It's an opportunity to exercise some soft power among the European community. Given that, has it faced controversy at all? We'll talk, obviously, about this year's controversy and we'll talk in greater detail about the Song hurricane, but has it been the subject of controversy and potential expulsions before?
Speaker 5:You're talking about Israel or other countries?
Speaker 3:Let's start with other countries. Perhaps Are there precedents for other countries to be the subject of? Yes, of course.
Speaker 5:Back in 2009, when Russia hosted the competition. It was after the invasion to Georgia, I think. Think so. The georgian uh sent a song called we don't want to put in, and it was a very political song and um not stating, implying that they would like to shoot.
Speaker 2:I'm just ashamed of me that it took me too long to realise that. Okay, they'll make Putin yeah, putin Very smart, okay.
Speaker 5:Not very smart, it was a bit too obvious. Okay, so the EBU said well, we got it. Thanks, but change the song please.
Speaker 5:And they said no Because they didn't really want to take part in the contest, which was being held in Moscow. So they were disqualified that year. And when Ukraine hosted the Eurovision for the first time in 2005, right after the Orange Revolution, the song that was chosen to represent the Ukraine that year was the anthem of the Orange Revolution, a very political song, and the EBU said well, you have to change some sentences in it because it's too political. So they did. You know. We need to remember that the Eurovision is the EBU's party.
Speaker 5:They're the hosts, we're their guests and if we want to be in the party, if we want to take part, we need to follow the rules, even if we don't like them, even if we disagree. So what happened this year with Hurricane, which you know? It all began, in my opinion, obviously, the troubles began inside the house in israel. When can the israeli broadcaster had announced that the song this year will be about current events, what we've been through? Fine, you know, it's really the worst time in israel ever, obviously, uh, the song would reflect what we're going through.
Speaker 3:Great. Can I just find out who would have made that decision? Alon, for the song to be about October 7th.
Speaker 5:It was kind of obvious to everyone. You know that when you're doing Eurovision in such a year, the song will reflect how we feel, what we've been through, because it's a major, major event that we have not experienced ever. So it was very obvious, but they didn't need to say that, in my opinion. And then choosing a song entitled October Rain that was the original title and I was like, oh, they're fucking stupid, they want to be disqualified Because, again, no politics. And this is a bit too political If you want to, it's a bit too. It's like, oh, okay, disqualify us. And I got a feeling that the Israeli broadcaster didn't really want to take part this year because they understood that security-wise and we'll talk about that in a second what it's like being an Israeli in Eurovision. It would mean that a lot of special security agents would have to go with the Israeli delegation. That costs a lot of money and the IBIU didn't really want Israel because it's a headache security-wise and we're not liked at the moment in Europe because they're anti-Semitic. Are you implying?
Speaker 2:that Israel was self-sabotaging by choosing that name or trying to.
Speaker 3:Or deliberately provocative.
Speaker 5:In my opinion yes, in order to be disqualified. But then everyone in Israel said we have to take part, we have to, otherwise they won't. Because people in Europe won't say Because you know, we still don't feel like partying. We still have 133 people in Gaza hostages.
Speaker 1:Whether alive or dead it doesn't matter.
Speaker 5:They're there. Our hearts are still broken, we are destroyed each and every one of us. We don't want to party, it's not the time, but we need to be there. So it was very obvious that we even though this is still happening, it's a current event we have to be there because people in Europe won't understand that we chose not to be part or we said we're taking a year off. They would say oh, israel was disqualified or banned from Eurovision because of war, and that could lead for people calling to ban Israel from the.
Speaker 5:Olympics or any other thing, so we have to be there. So once that happened and the EBU said we will disqualify you if you won't change the lyrics, the president of Israel said we need to be there. And then the Israeli broadcaster said but we're not going to change anything, we don't care. It was so childish and stupid. But then they did. I didn't find anything in the lyrics that was problematic or breaching the rules of the Eurovision Song Contest. Friends of mine, former heads of delegations for other countries, not Israel, told me we don't see anything problematic, but the EBU wanted to show the Europeans, in my opinion, that hey, look at us, we're giving Israel a hard time. Don't be mad at us that they're sitting in the Eurovision, you know. So they did that Great. They can't ban us from Eurovision because we haven't done anything wrong. We have the right to defend ourselves. We're not Russia and, by the way, russia was not banned from Eurovision because of the war. It was the excuse. The EBU did not ban Russia because of the war.
Speaker 2:Why did they ban Russia?
Speaker 5:A day before Russia was banned, the EBU issued a statement saying they're in the contest, it's not a contest between the countries, it's a contest between the broadcasters, they're not responsible for the war. And then a lot of other broadcasters said well, fuck you, if they're in, we're out. And, as everything else in life, it's about politics and it's about money, money. And every country pays money to be part of Eurovision. And when you have eight countries saying we will be out and it's a lot of money. So the EBU banned Russia. But it's one of the other rules in Eurovision that the news department of that broadcaster has to be independent, that the news department of that broadcaster has to be independent and to be able to say whatever they want about the government, to criticise the government. This is not the case in Russia and in Belarus for years now. So they were banned because of that the breach of the rules.
Speaker 3:Alon, can you tell us a little bit about Israel's representative this year, Edan Golan?
Speaker 5:In recent years, the method of choosing the Israeli representative is through a TV show called Rising Star. It's like a reality show when the winner gets to represent Israel. So she did, she was part of that and she's a fantastic singer. She's 20.
Speaker 3:She's a kid you know, and she's been brought into this controversy, in effect, at quite a young age.
Speaker 5:You know she's doing Eurovision for Israel in a very prominent times and everything is on her shoulders and whatever. But should it be like that?
Speaker 3:She's a singer, she's not a politician. How much say would she have had in the song and would she have been a part of the decision to change the name of the song?
Speaker 5:That's my problem with this system.
Speaker 2:Was it the entire song that got changed?
Speaker 5:No, no, the melody stayed the same. The lyrics were changed as requested by the European Broadcasting Union. So some sentences, you know they were still there from you know, october and Hurricane. Some of the original lyrics are still there, some were changed, you know it is what it is, but it's the same meaning. It's about what we've been through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has, alon been the subject of a fair bit of criticism in Israel, though, and I just wanted to share with you a couple of the lines that really jumped out at me. So, noah Limone I'm not sure if you know Noah she's a writer for Haaretz, and she wrote quite a negative review saying that she derided the song for a lack of a significant statement, and she said that even AI has more soul than this gibberish. Judy Fatimia of the Jerusalem Post also wrote a negative review, saying the song was boring and more suitable for army radio's playlist than Eurovision. He added that I was hoping for a song that would touch me, make me feel proud and Israeli. This song is really not going in that direction, so it has come in for a fair bit of criticism domestically, hasn't it in Israel?
Speaker 5:Opinions are like buttholes we all have one and you're allowed to say whatever you want and that's great and good for you and the song is really nice.
Speaker 1:It's not in any of my playlists.
Speaker 5:It's generic. It's a nice song. A lot of people here absolutely love it, I think because of the connection to what's been going through and what's been happening and everything. So a lot of people really love that song. I think it's really nice. I think she's a great singer this hurricane.
Speaker 1:Living in a fantasy ecstasy, Everything is meant to be, it does the job.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but you know, would I have picked that song.
Speaker 2:No, opinions are like buttholes. We've all got one, I think. Put that on a T-shirt, if it's not on one already, I'd buy it.
Speaker 3:So, Alon, in this year's contest, Israel will appear, I believe, in the second semifinal, which is scheduled to be on the 9th of May, after Estonia's entrant performs and before Norway's. How are you anticipating Edan? Golan's hurricane will go down with the crowd.
Speaker 5:Let me just say that the Norwegian Entry this year Sounds exactly Like the way my Nightmare sounded after October 7th. Haven't the Jewish people Suffered enough? Norway, and we have. So. In the semi-finals it's have. So in the semifinals it's the viewers, it's 100% the votes by the viewers.
Speaker 5:Who decides who will go to the final. I'm not concerned there. It's a decent song. The Israeli one is good. She's a great singer. I'm not concerned. I'm 100% sure she will qualify. Also, so many of the other songs this year are shit. My concern is the final, when it's 50% tell votes, 50% juries, and the name of the juries will be published after the competition and the name of the juries will be published after the competition. And my fear is that a lot of them will be hesitating to vote for Israel because they will get hate messages and threats or whatever, and they will avoid voting for Israel. That is my fear. Voting for Israel. That is my fear. But having said that, we all understand that there is no chance of us winning this year, for us just being part in Eurovision. That's the victory. We were not disqualified, we're there.
Speaker 2:Are people worried about her being booed on stage?
Speaker 5:Yes, of course, but being booed is the least of the problems. My fear is that people will try to jump on stage while she's performing. So security will have to be tight and I'm not sure, by the way, that she will be performing live. I think that one of the solutions is to have her recorded and show the recording during the live show, not her really on stage on the live show.
Speaker 1:In order to prevent yeah, that's a possibility.
Speaker 5:In my opinion, that could happen, because that's you know, people have jumped on Eurovision stage before. They've dodged security and managed to go on stage, not harming the singers, but in order to convey some messages or whatever it was. That's a strong possibility, and if people in Europe that are planning to do that are watching, I strongly suggest for you not to do that, because you will get shot. They will take no chances, no risks this year. Listen back in 73, when Israel first participated in the Eurovision. It was after the Munich Olympics, where 11 Israeli athletes were murdered and the crowd in Luxembourg were told during the broadcast do not get out of your seat or you will get shot. They were afraid of terrorists.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but would they be shot by an Israeli security person or?
Speaker 5:Yes, Not just Israelis. They will take no chances. If someone will jump the stage at this time when we know that there are threats, people might get shot.
Speaker 2:Oh my.
Speaker 5:God, don't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's being held in the Swedish city of Malmö, so we hope that the peace-loving citizens of Malmö keep to your request, alon.
Speaker 2:So another question that relates to security. Your fictional book Three Minutes of Eternity features-.
Speaker 5:Semi-fictional. Semi-fictional.
Speaker 2:Semi-fictional.
Speaker 5:Based by you know, based and inspired by real events. Yes, exactly, by the way look, I have it right here.
Speaker 2:Oh, fantastic. So it features a protagonist who's the head of press for the Israeli delegation to the Eurovision Song Contest, and they go to a competition in Azerbaijan, and that's a country that has an open border with Iran, and the delegation have to be protected by 15 security guards, and so my question is did this happen to you?
Speaker 5:Yes, we did Eurovision back in Baku in 2012. And again, it's a Muslim country, but it's a very friendly country to Israel. So we were not afraid and we didn't have any fear of the Algerian, but from the Iranians. So we went to Baku with three special agents At the third day it turned out that some were added because of workload. There were threats, so we had 15 special agents with us. Recently I've learned that there were not 15. There were about 40 undercover as well, yeah.
Speaker 5:And they did manage to catch 40 Iranian terrorists who came to kill us. So that really happened. And this is what it means to be an Israeli. You know, stressful enough as it is to be doing Eurovision, adding this type of things, and you know I remember the briefing when we just landed in Baku, and it's the same briefing Don't do this, don't do that, do this. You know, very easy, but we had the whole floor at the hotel to ourselves. And what should we do if we hear gunshots in the middle of the night in the floor? It's all in the book, by the way, so the first chapter is word by word what exactly happened. You should read it. It's funny and scary. We're doing Eurovision. What do you mean if? Are we supposed to be expecting gunshots? It's like sorry, I did not sign up for this shit, but you do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like Tammy. A shame to admit I didn't know that one of the contenders to represent Iceland this year was a Palestinian pop star, bashar Mourad. Can you tell us much about him and about how he came to potentially represent Iceland?
Speaker 5:Look at the irony he's, I think, a gay person.
Speaker 5:Iceland is very much against Israel. Again, they live their lives very easily, with no conflicts and nothing, and isolated, and life is easy peasy and gorgeous and beautiful. And I've been to Iceland and they don't understand what we're going through, they don't understand what we have to deal with and I don't expect them to understand them. I do expect them to shut the fuck up about it, because you don't understand what it's like. So he came second in the national final and you know I don't want to talk about what would have happened if he were to represent us, and who cares?
Speaker 3:uh, the song was not good anyway well, let's hope for a safe and successful ending for israel at eurovision this year I just wanted to thank you, alon, so much for chatting with us.
Speaker 2:This episode is definitely going to need a language warning at the beginning of the show. Oh my apologies.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I tend to curse a lot and I keep forgetting that it's not really. Yeah, it got me into some troubles on TV shows, but you know, intelligent people curse.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we love it. In closing, you get one Eurovision song that is your favourite, one Israeli Eurovision song. Which one is it? Which do you choose it?
Speaker 5:has to be Hallelujah. It has to be Hallelujah because it's not a song, it's an anthem. It's more than a song, it's an anthem. So Hallelujah from 79, which won Eurovision. And I would like to add another one that is not Israeli and that was that would be again because it's not a song, it's an anthem. That would be the British entry from 1997, love Shone Alive by Katrina and the Waves.
Speaker 2:Is the Hallelujah one. The Hallelujah, oh, that was in my Bat Mitzvah video. What a classic. Who knew? Hallelujah, la-oh-la bat.
Speaker 3:mitzvah video what a classic who knew Amazing Alon. I'm so glad we found you. You've been a real catch.
Speaker 5:And I apologize for my English. You know, it's not my first language, so apologies for that. No, not at all.
Speaker 3:Thank you for talking us through Israel's involvement in Eurovision and this year. And yeah, it's been great to meet with you and connect with you my pleasure, thank you.
Speaker 1:On the day of judgment. Hallelujah On what was. And what was not. Hallelujah. I love your podcast. This is the Pronunciation Patrol on Duty. Tammy, you mentioned a word which means if someone is your destiny, you're meant to be partner. The word is bashert, not bashert. It has nothing to do with clothing Bashert. So signing off from Pronunciation Patrol.
Speaker 2:So it seems like we might have a new spontaneous segment on our hands. Dash, you just heard not quite an angry letter, but some pronunciation patrolling and, my apologies, it's not bashert, it's bashert, is that right?
Speaker 3:You haven't learned your lesson, have you? Don't ask me. I did not go through 12 years of Hebrew language education, which I believe you did.
Speaker 2:Not only that, but I actually know the voice of the person who said that and you're not going to believe this, but it's my year seven and eight Hebrew teacher.
Speaker 3:Just another person in your Jewish education history that you've let down, Tammy.
Speaker 2:I know, and that's why that feedback really hurt. It hit home, but no, actually that was Gilda, we did ask for it.
Speaker 3:Let's be frank. I mean, we didn't necessarily ask for feedback on our pronunciation, but we did ask you to send in your memos if you had feedback or if you had anything that you felt needed to be added to the conversation. That's true.
Speaker 2:And that technically counts, and I do really love Gilda. She was potentially the only high school Hebrew teacher that was not a psychopath. Was she eccentric? Yes, psychopath no. Has she since offered to make me some fish balls that do not contain fish because I had a kvetch about Yumi's fish balls being unavailable in Sydney? Yes, did I accept that offer Also? Yes, this podcast is just the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 3:Looking forward to more memos from Gilda, or perhaps from you as well. So just record them on your device and you can send them through to ashamed at thejewishindependentcomau and we may just play them in episodes to come.
Speaker 2:That's it for another week of Ashamed to Admit with Dash Lawrence and me, tammy Rivka-Sussman, this is a TJI podcast. Me, tammy Rivka-Sussman, this is a TJI podcast.
Speaker 3:Today's episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with music by Donovan Jenks. Links to the articles mentioned today are in the show notes.
Speaker 2:And special thanks to Alon Amir and to God for creating produce that grows directly from the earth Beret, peri, ha'adama, potatoes, mushies, hemp, opium poppy.
Speaker 3:You knew what you were doing. If you like the podcast, you're more than welcome at any stage to leave a positive review.
Speaker 2:Or make a f***ing social media post about it. Already so many people saying I love the podcast. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that Also. Where's your social media post about it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll just tell your friends. You can have a qurel or a kvetch via the contact form on the Jewish Independent website or by emailing ashamed at thejewishindependentcomau, as always. Thank you for your support and see you next Tuesday.
Speaker 2:Did you notice the flowers in the background of my video today?
Speaker 3:No, no, I didn't. Lovely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're from Bunnings, a potential sponsor of the show.