Ashamed to Admit
Are you ashamed to admit you're not across the big issues and events affecting Jews in Australia, Israel and around the Jewish world?
In this new podcast from online publication The Jewish Independent, Your Third Cousin Tami Sussman and TJI's Dashiel Lawrence tackle the week's 'Chewiest and Jewiest' topics.
Ashamed to Admit
Legacy, Leadership, and the Long Game: Rabbis Jeffrey Kamins and Jacqueline Ninio
At Australia's largest congregation, Emanuel Synagogue, a historic transition is underway as the High Holy Days approach. Longstanding Senior Rabbi Jeffrey Kamins has announced he is passing the metaphorical shofar to Rabbi Jacqueline Nino. Tami and Dash sat down with this wise and inspiring rabbinic duo to discuss legacy, leadership, and how Jeffrey has played 'the long game.'
Oh, and Tami and Dash have an announcement of their own!
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Are you interested in what happens when one rabbi passes the metaphorical shofar to another?
Speaker 2:In today's episode of A Shame to Admit, we sat down with Rabbi Geoffrey Cammons and Rabbi Jacqueline Nino from Emanuel Synagogue in Sydney, who oversee the largest congregation in Australia. Who oversee the largest congregation in Australia?
Speaker 1:Jeff is about to retire after decades as senior rabbi and Jackie is stepping up to take on the role. We asked them about legacy leadership and whether they've ever confused a Panadol for a Panadine and accidentally performed a Rosh Hashanah service high.
Speaker 2:We didn't ask them that that did not happen.
Speaker 1:Between a farewell, a promotion and a community of thousands, there was definitely plenty to talk about.
Speaker 2:Including a healthy dose of shame at the end.
Speaker 1:Join us as we cut through some seriously chewy and dewy topics.
Speaker 2:You are listening to A Shame to Admit. Hello folks, I'm Dashiel Lawrence from the Jewish Independent.
Speaker 1:And I have abandonment issues only made worse by you, dash Lawrence.
Speaker 2:You're also Tammy Sussman. Tammy, I'm not abandoning you, I'm just stepping down as co-host of our podcast.
Speaker 1:So it's not abandonment. What is it?
Speaker 2:It's moving on. It's starting a new chapter for you and for a shame, to admit.
Speaker 1:That's a very diplomatic answer. It's also not true, in my opinion. The truth is that you took on too much. That's what you did. I knew this was going to happen. When you're like I'm the class representative for my son for the Parents and Friends Association, I was like he's taking on too much. I'm building a house. Then you're like I'm all of a sudden vice president of Hamble Olympics Victoria.
Speaker 2:Secretary of Hamble Victoria.
Speaker 1:And I thought he's going to burn out and it's going to be too much.
Speaker 2:I've also got about half a dozen other commitments in there. I do tend to overload my plate, that's true, but this isn't so much about overloading the plate. We are coming up to well over 50 episodes now. I've been doing this for more than 18 months. It's been a wonderful ride. I've had so much fun with you, so much fun chatting with all the guests that we've had on the program, and there is nothing that gives me more knuckus okay, with the exception perhaps of my kids, but nothing that gives me more knuckus when I'm out and about in the bagel belt or at a Jewish community event and someone says that they listen to us and they love us. That fills me with a lot of joy and a lot of pride. So I will miss this program. I'll definitely miss you and I chatting every week.
Speaker 2:The banter, the banter. Yep, yep. You crack it up, aren't you? Are you going to miss the nudging? Yeah, of course. Yeah, I've grown to love your nudges. We also think that the program has still got a lot left in it. There's very likely to be another co-host that can sidle up with you each week. Who that co-host is, we'll just have to wait and find out.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming along with me on this journey, this ride. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are still going to pop in every so often for a big episode, aren't you?
Speaker 2:Yes, I will absolutely still be popping in every so often, kind of like a co-host emeritus Tammy, if you will.
Speaker 1:First of all, I thought it was emeritus, like arthritis. I'd never heard that word before. I did have to look it up. It came up during today's interview because, Dash, you're not the only one sharing big news of a major restructure.
Speaker 2:That's right, tammy. If you are a Sydneysider, either a member ofmanuel Synagogue or sort of peripherally connected with that congregation, you will no doubt have heard the news that the big J-dog, as he's known on the street, otherwise known more commonly as Rabbi Jeffrey Kemmons. Rabbi Jeffrey Kemmons, as you'll learn, arrived at Emanuel Synagogue in 1989 as a then relatively young rabbi from the West Coast of the United States, and it was not long after that he was made senior rabbi and he has been there ever since. And now, as we approach this Jewish new year, the end of this Jewish year and the start of the new one, he has announced that he's leaving Emmanuel and Rabbi Jackie Nino, known as Jax. Apparently you've popped that into the script. I wasn't aware that she was known as Jax.
Speaker 1:She's not Okay. She's just known as Jax in my heart. Okay, yep.
Speaker 2:Jackie Neneo, one of the first woman rabbis in the country and certainly a pioneer. She is stepping up and becoming the new senior rabbi of Emmanuel and when we heard this it just felt like an interview. We had to have Tammy, because these two rabbinical figures are wise, thoughtful and just good fun. They can have a laugh, they can be a bit silly as well. They're self-deprecating, they're thoughtful and-.
Speaker 1:Empathetic, open-minded. They're just excellent humans.
Speaker 2:We need a bit of that as we go into higher holidays. I think Last year we had Rabbi Rav Ganendi and I loved that conversation and it felt like this would be another privileged opportunity to sit down with a very wise rabbinical duo.
Speaker 1:So if you're listening from outside Sydney or overseas, as Ira Glass would say, stay with us, because I think the conversation that we have is relevant to everyone.
Speaker 2:As we head into the Jewish High Holidays, into Rosh Hashanah only a few days away, we bring you Rabbi Geoffrey Cammons, soon to be Emeritus Rabbi, and Rabbi Jackie Nino.
Speaker 1:Rabbi Geoffrey Cammons. Rabbi Jackie Nino, welcome to the Ashamed to Admit studio.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Lovely to be with you and also to be able to do this with Rabbi Nino.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you for having us together. We don't get to do this very often, so it's a special treat for us. I don't think we've ever done this.
Speaker 1:Really, I'm so thrilled, honored to be a part of that.
Speaker 3:We should say Shehecheyan.
Speaker 1:Let's do it.
Speaker 4:Shehecheyan, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Beautiful and we have some non-Jewish listeners.
Speaker 3:That means it's a blessing and thanksgiving to reaching this first momentous occasion.
Speaker 2:Rabbi Cammons, I believe that you have been at Emmanuel Synagogue since 1989. So we're talking 36 years that you have been at the congregation almost a lifetime, certainly a working lifetime. So you arrived at the congregation as a 33-year-old, fresh out of rabbinical school, more or less.
Speaker 3:Good research. I was just going to say.
Speaker 2:Looking back now, nearly four decades later, what part of that young rabbi remains and is endured?
Speaker 3:And what has changed. The part that remains and endures is my idealism and the values that I want to bring to the community, and I think maybe the things that has changed is I'm not as naive and I realize how difficult that is to stay true to that path.
Speaker 2:The decision to. Are we calling it a retirement?
Speaker 3:Funny. I guess it's retirement as senior rabbi. I think it was a new opportunity as rabbi emeritus.
Speaker 2:Okay. So the decision to step down as senior rabbi and to step into that position of wise counsel, emeritus rabbi, that can't have been an easy one. Tell us why, after all these years, have you decided to make this change?
Speaker 3:There's a few reasons. As everybody can hear from my Australian accent, even though I've lived here more than half my life, it hasn't developed, and all my family, except for my wife, stepson, daughter-in-law and grandson, which is a small little unit and the little bit of extended relatives from there, everybody is in LA, and I just need to spend time with my family in Los Angeles, especially as they're growing and developing, without having to be on the email or call the synagogue. I just need to be able to do that as pure family time. And then the second reason is I am turning 70 next year and I am seeing too many people in that decade and my father was one of them, my first wife, another one of them who gets sick and die. Time is precious and so I need more time with me, with family. And the decision to be emeritus is because I still call Australia home and I still call Emanuel Synagogue home. This is my community, this is my synagogue, and I'm really excited to see how Rabbi Nino takes it into the future as Senior Rabbi.
Speaker 1:Jackie, you're stepping into a huge role at a really significant time of year, and we're curious to know what's the first tradition or ritual that you plan to make your own as head rabbi.
Speaker 4:Oh, that is such a difficult question. When I first came to Emmanuel, I was the first female rabbi that the synagogue had ever had and together with Rabbi Alison Konya, we were the first ones in New South Wales. So I came to the synagogue, I led my first service. I had asked the rabbis what do they sing? What do they read? How did they do it?
Speaker 4:I did it exactly like they do, and people said you've changed everything. And so I didn't change anything, but hearing it come from a female voice in that space, which had been only male until then, it felt different just by me being there. So I think part of it is there's an element of continuing to hold the congregation and to walk together and just having a new leader. Like you mentioned, ash Rabbi Kamens has been in this congregation for half a lifetime like it's 37 years and 27 of those he was the head rabbi, and so I think we need a bit of time for me just to, for people to adjust and for me to adjust to being in that space before I start making any kind of big or radical changes, because I think it's going to feel like change just by hearing things come from me.
Speaker 4:I think I'm going to be a very different leader from Rabbi Kamens just because I'm a different person and it's going to take some time to for all of us to to adjust. But the advantage is that I've been here for those 27 years with Rabbi Kamens and I've had so many opportunities always to be creative and to do like. If I have crazy ideas, he's always given me the space to be able to explore those and try things out. So I don't feel like I'm itching to make changes because I've always felt the freedom to be able to be creative and bring in whatever rituals or events that I want to in the synagogue till now, Okay, so you don't have your sage ready to go and burn it.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I've got the sage Okay. All right 20 hansas that I'm going to hang. You know my family are Sephardi Jews, which they herald from Spain. Their kind of journey was Spain to Turkey, to Egypt. We're very into amulets and you know protective things and superstitions, so I think, yeah, maybe that's what I'll introduce first off.
Speaker 1:Googly eyes everywhere. That's great. Yeah, that won't be off-putting at all during prayer services.
Speaker 4:And no one will notice. It'll be fantastic.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you raised the point about leadership, rabbi Nino, because my next question was about your late father, about Henry or Henri, as I imagine he was known as his birth names. So you and I share something in common we're both from the city of Adelaide and growing up in Adelaide. I knew your father as the Lord Mayor of the city of Adelaide and a very longstanding business leader and a very passionate perfume connoisseur, I believe. So someone who had a lifetime of leadership. Now that you've moved to this next phase of your career and you are the head, you know you are the Lord Mayor of your little community. It's the biggest congregation in Australia of Emmanuel Synagogue. I'm just wondering if you're thinking about him and about his legacy of leadership.
Speaker 4:I think about my dad often. He died just two years ago, just before October 7th, so it's been a really challenging journey, but I watched my dad, my dad I thought you were going to say a very colourful leader, and he was.
Speaker 2:He was, he definitely was.
Speaker 4:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in what way?
Speaker 4:He was very unfiltered, like what you saw is what you got. You know politicians, sometimes they're very measured with their words and whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He definitely was an interesting in the very sort of staid conservative Anglo polite of Adelaide. He was quite a contrast.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you know he loved his time as Lord Mayor. He loved every minute. Then there's all these pictures of my dad and he's dressed in a kilt and he's standing in the mountain with an umbrella complaining about how the water spills out onto the people shopping in the street. Like every opportunity they offered him, he's like, yeah, let's do that. And he was just such a flamboyant personality really, I guess, and I'm not like that at all.
Speaker 4:That's the antithesis of me. Not like that at all. That's the antithesis of me. And I also used to be extremely wary of the press and media and speaking and doing anything, because I saw what they did to him. Sometimes it was great and sometimes it wasn't. I think I recognised pretty early on that having a leadership role is really challenging and I think that's one of the things that I've struggled with in a way that he didn't. He was so confident in his position and his vision and that went through his business, through everything that he did. He'd make a decision and then he'd just go with it. And I think I'm much more cautious in that way.
Speaker 4:When I told my parents I was going to be a rabbi, I thought my dad would struggle with it and I thought my mom would be fine. And I told my dad and he's like fantastic, this is great, it's wonderful. And I was like, oh, okay, maybe this is going to go better than I thought. And I spoke to my mom. She's like oh, I don't think this is a good idea, I don't know. And I'm like why? And she said because you're not going to be able to please everyone and people are going to criticize you and people are going to challenge you and I'm worried about how you, as the human being, are going to cope with that and deal with that and cope with that and deal with that.
Speaker 4:And that continues to be a challenge for me in a way that it wasn't for my dad. So I definitely from my dad and from my mom, but from my dad there was definitely a notion of service to community. He came to Australia with nothing like so many refugee stories and he always felt that he needed to be the one to help other people and to reach out to them and to be there for them. He was incredibly generous but also this idea of service, I think, was a very prominent one for him always, and he never forgot his roots. And that was a very long answer, sorry.
Speaker 2:No, it's a beautiful, beautiful legacy. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go ahead and assume that when you step up to senior rabbi, there will be even more scrutiny and perhaps more pressure to please. I'm just curious to know how you're preparing yourself for that, if you are at all. Are you going to go to therapy twice a week instead of once? Are you going to go to therapy twice a week instead of once? Or do you have a congregant who maybe will just slip you some beta blockers? Or is it just Rabbi Jeffrey Kamens just kind of giving you all the wisdom he's got?
Speaker 4:I think it's all of the above, but maybe without the beta blockers. Okay, but I'm very aware of it being a challenge and the congregations since this announcement have been unbelievable. They have been so supportive and excited and I've just been overwhelmed and so many people have offered help and support and anything that I might need. But I think I'm also going to try and look for some people to help guide me who are not within the congregation, just to give me those skills. You know, I've had times before where people in the congregation have disagreed with things that I've said or thought or championed. Someone in the congregation actually, when we were speaking to them, said you need to work out what your North Star is and then you need to just go towards that and be strong in your conviction and you know, if people don't agree with you, that's okay. And I think one of the challenges in the Jewish community, especially at the moment, is learning for all of us how to disagree and maintain relationships.
Speaker 2:Disagreement and learning to live and work together effectively was actually the next question I wanted to ask you. Rabbi Cabins, you and Rabbi Nino have spent nearly three decades working side by side, which is an incredibly long time working side by side with someone in a role that really tests relationships, I'm sure of that. So can you share with Tammy and I? We've only been working together for nearly 18 months and she's had to up the beta blockers and the therapy sessions. So give us some wisdom, and to other listeners as well, about what you've learned about working together and making an effective partnership, such as the one you have with Rabban Inye.
Speaker 3:Thank you for that.
Speaker 3:And I have to say that when we started the first year we were working together.
Speaker 3:I was not yet senior rabbi and I became senior rabbi I'd only been here 10 years and so Rabbi Nino has seen in real life experience what happened in terms of community expectations the day I took on this new title, in this new role, and also the change in just what I had to do, which, I have to say, and I know it's a hard thing to become the senior rabbi because our passion is teaching and pastoral work and connecting and community building and all of a sudden there's all this organizational management and organizational responsibility and people banging in your ear about this, that or the other thing that half the time isn't either something you knew that was actually going on over in that part of the synagogue or that you actually had any specific involvement.
Speaker 3:Now, given that in the 26 years we've worked together with my being senior rabbi, the incredible support that I've had from Rabbi Nino you know, calling me out when it needed to be happening and especially in the early years, there were times I would, I remember I would make decisions without consultation and we had a whole conversation about that and better communication skills and things. So I've tried to be a good listener and a good learner and I absolutely have the fullness of trust and faith and confidence in who she is as a rabbi. So you know, I've always asked her you know, as a rabbi, to another rabbi for advice, for insight.
Speaker 2:And, like any good relationship, I imagine that it's required both of you to continue to kind of reflect on and to discuss what's going on between the two of you and to have some attunement and awareness of differences of opinion, of tensions, of things that aren't quite working.
Speaker 3:Well, it's even more complicated than that, because we actually work with three other rabbis.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So over the years, as the congregation has grown, we now understand that, with nearly 4,000 members between 0 and 105, we're the largest in terms of serving a community. So we have three other rabbis, but if you work that out it's like 800 to one in terms of a ratio, and all that's been part of this deep belief that we're going to have different streams here. It's unorthodox in its approaches, but it ranges from renewal to progressive to Masorti, which is a very traditional approach, and so what we often do is consult the two of us together about how to work with the team of five and then take it to that next level. Do you want to say from your perspective? What do you think?
Speaker 4:Like I don't remember ever having a conversation with you about, like, about communicating. I just I don't know.
Speaker 2:We're Piscean. It sounds like it's been so sort of instinctive. It's been simpatico.
Speaker 4:That's it. When you were saying know you, would you obviously reflect and you discuss. And it was never you're just hand in glove and I think we've both had to grow together, like we've both grown into our roles and through this together, like it's been very organic in that way. And I think I just realized I've never been a rabbi without Rabbi Kamens next to me. This was my first rabbi job and I've only ever done it with you, so now I'm getting a bit nervous about doing it without you right there.
Speaker 4:Like you said, we've grown in our roles together and I've always had such admiration and respect for you and the way you're a rabbi, the way you are with people, the incredible vision that you've had for this community. That has been. I remember one time saying to you you've been saying this for 10 years and it still hasn't happened. Like how do you keep going? And then people are raising things like it's a new idea, but you've been saying it all this time. Like how do you do with that? You said you've got to play the long game you know you've got to keep.
Speaker 4:And that's the north star thing. Like you had your north star, you knew what you wanted to create and you just kept going, like there were naysayers, there were, you know, challenges, there were all these things, but you had this vision and now I hope that you can see that it's happened. You know like it is and the success of this community is because of that vision and that ideal. Like you talk about being an idealist, you know you had this idea of not breaking into separate groups and dividing them, that we could all be together. And it's involved compromise from everyone, like we've all had to find. And you talk about conflicts and I think that's where the the tension sometimes arises. But I've always been very aware that, as much as this is a collaborative relationship and we've worked together on so many things that in the end, your call is the call, you know, and sometimes I do things that I wouldn't otherwise do, because Perfect example.
Speaker 1:Yes, give a specific example do because Perfect example.
Speaker 3:Yes, give a specific example the issue of patrilineal descent. So the progressive movement said that if a child has a father who is a Jew and a mother who is not a Jew and they have timely life cycle events, they can be considered a Jew. So the timely life cycle is a bit of a gray area, so that it ends up being community by community. Coming as I do now, I went from a secular to a progressive, to a Masorti path in terms of practice and affiliation. The position there is that you actually need to have a conversion experience, which would be the learning bar, bat mitzvah and going to the mikvah. And so we require and this is where the compromise is all our children doesn't matter whether they've entered in through you know a renewal pathway or a progressive pathway to go to the mikvah, and in fact so you asked Rabbi Nino, she was being very quiet on this.
Speaker 3:I actually made a little note. One of her dreams for decades, for decades, has been because the Orthodox bait dean won't allow us to use any of the community mikvah oath that they run and we have to take children and converts to a public ocean or harbor. It's very uncomfortable and a dream would be to have a mikvah here, but this is an issue. Rabbi Nino naturally would not have taken those children to the mikvah. She would have considered them already as Jews, based on their 13 years of involvement and engagement.
Speaker 1:I understand.
Speaker 3:If anybody wants to donate to the mikvah fund to build a mikvah here at Emanuel Synagogue, Rabbi Nino is going to turn it into an incredible place of spiritual connection. I don't mean to explain, but that's.
Speaker 4:Can I talk about that for a minute? So the mikveh is a ritual bath that is used in traditional Judaism for what's called family purity purposes, so when a woman has her period, after she's finished, she goes to the mikveh and immerses in the water. But it's also used for moments of transition. So if someone converts to Judaism, you go to immerse in the water and other sort of transitions in life. Men will sometimes go before Shabbat, every week before the Sabbath, and so that's kind of the traditional use of the mikvah.
Speaker 4:But I have created rituals and done moments at the mikvah. But because we don't have one we can use would be going to the ocean, which is beautiful on a sunny, perfect day, but it's very rarely that and it's a public space. So I've created rituals for people transitioning gender, to mark the transition from one to another. I've done it for people struggling with infertility, completing a treatment for cancer or for some other illness, special birthdays, retirement, celebrating the birth of a child. My dream is to create a mikvah here at the Synagogue and I've been talking about it for many, many years and at first it was a bit jarring for people because they only had an association of mikvah with the family, purity laws and some people in our congregation.
Speaker 4:once a month the women will go to the mikvah. But they also liked the idea that it would be a mikvah that was a little bit more open and that hopefully we can use it then for all kinds of moments and rituals in people's lives. So that's my dream whether we can make it happen. It's looking closer than ever before. So maybe that will be my first act, but it's a pretty big act.
Speaker 1:It's going to happen. I see it.
Speaker 4:You see it. Thanks, Tia. Thank you.
Speaker 2:So we are coming up to the Jewish High Holidays, beginning in just a few days' time. It is a time synonymous with self-reflection and starting anew. Is there anything that either of you could have done better and would like to start from scratch in this Jewish New Year?
Speaker 3:Can I ask for a clarification on the question Done better in life, so my entire life, or done better in this last year?
Speaker 1:Oh, I think entire life.
Speaker 2:This question is particularly pertinent, I think, for you, Rabbi Cammons, as you are entering into this next phase of your life here.
Speaker 3:I could have done so many things better. In fact, I think one of the issues that I have is that I'm hypercritical of myself, have done something better on that day, whether it's you know how I've spoken, how I've reacted, or just internal emotions that I would rather not hold, yeah, so how do I move forward with that? I think it's actually that whole thing about being compassionate and forgiving to oneself. I'm very much that way toward other people, but not as good with myself.
Speaker 1:That was a very vague response, which is frustrating for me because I'm so nosy and I wanted you to be really specific and say one day Tammy, I just let rip at someone and I deeply regret that.
Speaker 3:Well, oh yes, In terms of that you have to understand. My dad was a soldier in the United States Army during World War II. My mom has been out there. Thank God she's still alive. We come from a family of F-bombers, and so I have definitely used profanity in certain circumstances that were highly inappropriate.
Speaker 1:Okay, are you ashamed to admit that?
Speaker 3:I'm not ashamed to admit it, but I was ashamed that I did that.
Speaker 1:Okay, nailed that response, we finally got there.
Speaker 2:What about you, Chakininio?
Speaker 4:Well, you're not going to be happy with my response either but, I think the biggest challenge for me is I have a family.
Speaker 4:I have a husband and a daughter and I think their needs always fall last on the list. This job is very demanding and it's my husband often describes me as not having a job, but it's who I am. So I think to a lot of to a real extent that's true, but that comes with a real challenge at being able to prioritize my family over work, and I very rarely do that. You know they get the worst version of me because this is such a public role and we're interacting with people and connecting with people and carrying a lot for people.
Speaker 4:Actually, especially since October 7th, I feel like the community is really struggling and there's a lot for people. Actually, especially since October 7th, I feel like the community is really struggling and there's a lot of pain and a lot of vulnerability and a lot of fear and anger and there's like this whole mass of emotions and I feel like we carry a lot of that. And then I go home and I just kind of want, I need a space and a moment to just be and I don't give them then what I'm giving the congregation. So I feel like that is a real challenge and to be able to say to the community I'm really sorry, no, I can't do that. Then because?
Speaker 4:well, not even saying because, but in my head because I need to be at something for my daughter or with my husband, or even if it's not an event, to say just being home with family. That's something that I need to do and say give myself permission to do, and not only that, but for their sake and ours and mine, to try and work out how to do that. But I think many, many people have that challenge balancing the two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, out of curiosity, is that something that they have given you feedback about and have they explicitly said you're not there enough for us? Or is that just your own judgment and mum guilt that you're projecting? I?
Speaker 4:think it's a bit of both. My daughter when she was little. She's sitting on my husband's lap and she's typing on the computer, right, and she says, what are you doing? And she says, well, I'm mummy and you're me. And he says, okay, mummy, can we go and play? And she said, no, I'm doing very important work. And she's like typing away on the computer and I was like, well, just take the knife and twist it a little bit, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4:It broke my heart. And another time he said what are you doing? She says, shh, I'm writing a eulogy. It is a eulogy. It's like four years old writing a eulogy and so they're brutal. The conversations we have at the dinner table are not what other people have at the dinner table, but recently she's not complained Like that's all she's ever known. Really is me, and our job is six days a week.
Speaker 3:I have one day off on a Monday. I laughed because I can't think of a Monday to take it off in the last month.
Speaker 4:Right, so it's full on. And she did say the other day a couple of times, you know you work really hard and you do a lot Like it wasn't a complaint, it was just kind of a. It was like the first time she'd really realized how demanding this job is, and I think we're all thinking it's going to get more demanding and so how are we going to work that through?
Speaker 3:Part of the problem is is that we do this because we love what we do and we love people and we want to serve the community, and 24 hours a day is not enough to do that.
Speaker 2:Given that you'll have more time on your hands, how are you looking to spend some of this time that you buy back now?
Speaker 3:So when July comes next year, first thing I'm actually going to do is go to Israel. I was there last year. I wasn't able to get there this year. I have some extraordinary friends that are there and I also intend to do some volunteer work with Rabbis for Human Rights. Then August, September, I'll be in LA and long term I'll probably be in Los Angeles with family, probably about a third of the year. And then when I'm here, the projects that I want to do around the synagogue mostly center around continuing with pastoral work. I have a great fondness for the elders of the community and long-term relationships that just because I've retired, so to speak, I'm not going to let those go.
Speaker 1:My mother's friends are going to be really disappointed to discover that you will not be joining Israeli dancing.
Speaker 3:Israeli dancing is Rabbi Nino. I will hopefully be doing a lot. Yeah, I definitely want to do, if you want to call it body work, keeping you know I love exercising, I love hiking, I love being out in nature. That's what I mean by body work doing that being really physically embodied. I'm not one to really enjoy going out to coffees and dinners and things like that, much rather just be with my wife and hang out and stuff like that. And yes, I will be home cranking up the music when I'm doing a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 1:All I heard was body work, and it's inspired a new t-shirt.
Speaker 3:So I often, I often, no know. I'm talking about push-ups, pull-ups. I know what you were talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just, the listeners are going to hear what they want to hear botox, you know filler brotox. Yeah, that's very on brand because this episode is coming out before russia. Shana, need to ask the two of you if you had to describe yourself as a shofar blast, would you be a tekiah, shvarim or teruah?
Speaker 3:Well, my shofar is out there and I could actually sound it for you.
Speaker 1:Can you please? I'll just whip it out.
Speaker 4:Tekiah Shvarim. I'll just whip it out, that last one, the tequila, which is a big tequila.
Speaker 3:And that one is only normally Russian Shana Yom Kippur.
Speaker 4:And when a rabbi wants to, you know, show up.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So I think I'm a tekiah because I think I'm steady and kind of even.
Speaker 1:Rabbi Cummins is also a Pisces, so maybe he'll choose the same one.
Speaker 3:I was about to. But just to be different, I'm going to go for being a true-I.
Speaker 4:That's what you are.
Speaker 3:Because I have so many, in a way, different personalities that can manifest in different places and different times.
Speaker 4:And you're also the energy of that. Like you're here, you're there, you're always doing it. I might be doing three.
Speaker 3:You know it's not like I'm multitasking, but I might have three or four different things on the go, you know.
Speaker 4:You are multi like. You do a million things all at once and you pack into a day what a normal human being couldn't. So I think 1,000% that's who you are, Very good.
Speaker 1:Great answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So, as we approach Rosh Hashanah, what's one blessing that you wish for the congregation, for your congregation in the next year, and one personal hope for you.
Speaker 1:It can be serious. It can also be frivolous, if you just.
Speaker 3:Rabbi Nino is absolutely the one with the great sense of humour.
Speaker 4:Okay, so my blessing for our congregation is that we all can find a place here that is home, a place where we feel seen and heard and understood, and that we find always the beauty of connection and community and being together in our difference and in our similarities.
Speaker 3:Should we come up?
Speaker 4:with a hope. Do you have a hope, Honestly?
Speaker 3:I hope that I will be healthy over the year ahead, and also, you know, those people that I love so dearly, which is really everybody I know. But you know, health and peace are the things for which I think we all hope.
Speaker 4:And I hope to find the courage and the strength to take on this new responsibility. It's a huge honour to be given to me and I recognise the enormity of it, but also I hope that I can walk my path and that I can help bring that blessing that I hoped for the community into being. And I also hope for lots more Israeli dancing, which is my passion and it's my place where I can switch off. I get caught up in the music and you can't do anything else. You can't think about anything else except what your feet are doing and what your body like. It's a real kind of escape and it's my little haven and I hope that I will be able to do more of that in the year ahead.
Speaker 1:Lovely. Well, I just want to say, Rabbi Nino, you have so many people rooting for you. Everyone just wants to see you succeed.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. That's really kind, thank you.
Speaker 3:I hope that people will tune into our services via our streaming device on Emanuel Plus, our streaming device on Emmanuel Plus, because it's another way of our multi-perspectival approach to Judaism here being extended to the community abroad.
Speaker 1:We'll leave a link to that in the show notes. Rabbi Jackie Nino, Rabbi Jeffrey Cammons, thank you so much for joining us on A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for this opportunity Great to be with you. And to everyone out there, Shana Tova Umetuka, a good and sweet new year.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 1:That was Rabbi Jacqueline Nino and Rabbi Jeffrey Cammons, and that's it for this week.
Speaker 2:You've been listening to. A Shame to Admit with Tammy Sussman.
Speaker 1:And Dash Lawrence.
Speaker 2:This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King, with theme music by Donovan Jenks.
Speaker 1:As always. Thank you so much for your support.
Speaker 2:Tammy will be taking next week off to write her new book Woo. Looking forward to that one, tammy, but she'll be back with you in two weeks time with a special interview for the anniversary of October 7th, and I will be back for one more episode shortly after for what you might say is potentially a mic drop moment On.
Speaker 1:Spilkers. In the meantime, follow the Jewish Independent on your socials or sign up to their newsletter so you can stay in the loop for news about a shame to admit, with my new co-host in potentially a new format coming to your ears, maybe your eyes, in the coming weeks. Bye.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye you.