Ashamed to Admit

Israel, it's Time to Dream Again – a conversation with Sir Mick Davis and Mike Prashker

• The Jewish Independent

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In this one-off interview, TJI's Editor-in-Chief Deborah Stone speaks with Sir Mick Davis and Mike Prashker, founders of The London Initiative—a global network connecting Jewish leaders across the diaspora. They discuss the threat of illiberalism in Israel and what the diaspora's role should be in defending Israeli democracy.

Ashamed to Admit returns in January 2026 with Tami Sussman and a soon-to-be-announced co-host. 

Watch the episode in video: https://thejewishindependent.com.au/reviving-israels-liberal-democracy

Read Sir Mick's address to The Great Synagogue: https://thejewishindependent.com.au/we-must-speak-out-for-a-democratic-fair-peace-seeking-israel

Our editorial: https://thejewishindependent.com.au/israel-decline-democracy-protest

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SPEAKER_02:

Hi there, Dashiel Lawrence here, Executive Director at the Jewish Independent, and former host of Ashame to Admit. You might be wondering, I thought Dash was going. Don't worry, I'm not on the podcast anymore. Tammy and her new co-host will be back again in the new year. But we wanted to give you something a little bit different this week. This is not an episode of Ashame to Admit, but it's an important conversation, a timely conversation, a conversation that Jewish Independent feels needs to be had with Australia's Jewish community. In the last week, we welcomed two very important international speakers, Mike Prashka and Sir Mick Davis. They're the founders of a thing called the London Initiative. You'll hear more about it in a moment. What they've got to say, well, I don't expect everyone is going to agree with it. You might find that you agree with some of it, you might find that you don't agree with any of it. But I encourage you to listen to this conversation with our editor-in-chief, Deborah Stone. As together, the three of them discuss the importance of fighting for a liberal democracy and fighting for the Israel that was envisioned in the Declaration of Independence. That's it from me, and don't forget to come back to Ashamed to Admit in the new year, January 2026, with Tammy Sussman and our soon-to-be named co-host of the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello and welcome. I'm Deborah Stone, editor of The Jewish Independent, and with me are two guests with a deep vision for Israel and a practical drive to make it a reality. So Mick Davis and Mike Prashka are the founders of the London Initiative, an international network dedicated to reviving liberal democracy, to ensuring Israel's societal fairness, and to building a pathway to a secure peace through the shared efforts of Israelis and diaspora Jews. Mick and Mike are visiting Australia as guests of the Jewish Independent to share their call for Diaspora Jews to speak up and out about the kind of Israel we want. Welcome to you both. Israel's Declaration of Independence envisages a state based on the principles of freedom, justice, and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel. To what extent is the current iteration living up to that dream?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think it's challenged. I think we have a situation where in Israel equality is something which is contested. And the statistics bear that out. I mean, we have a scenario where 28% of young people live below the poverty line, and that's not a country that can be fair. Where Arab citizens of Israel are 21 times likely to be faced being murdered than Israeli citizens. That's not a country that's fair. Where there's a contribution by some sectors of society which is below others. VDEM has downgraded Israel as a liberal democracy, and 60% of Israelis are worried about the direction of travel. And peace has been taken off the table, and we have believed for years that we can manage the conflict. And unfortunately, October the 7th showed that conflict can't be managed, it must be settled. So I think we have a long way to travel now.

SPEAKER_01:

Those three pillars: the question of liberal democracy, the question of fairness, and the question of peace, you've called it the triangle that the London Initiative has set up that we need to address. To what extent are they interrelated, that one is dependent on the other?

SPEAKER_03:

They're fundamentally and profoundly interconnected and interdependent. And it's not random that in the Proclamation of Independence there's specific reference to all of those elements. A country that is increasingly unfair, in which there are growing socioeconomic gaps, in which genie coefficients are widening and widening, in which, as Mick said, violence is affecting Arab citizens at levels that are far, far greater than Jewish citizens? That strains democracy. A country, security and peace are not binary opposites. They are actually intimately interconnected. So all of these elements are profoundly and basically interwoven.

SPEAKER_01:

Does that mean that you think the situation with Palestinians, in particular the occupation, is having an effect on the internal politics of Israel, the kind of democracy that Israel is becoming even within the Green Line?

SPEAKER_00:

I have long held that the most corrosive thing within Israeli society has been the occupation. The occupation to have an environment where you are controlling other people requires a regime of control and requires you to deviate from the norms and standards that you apply in your own country. And so what happens over the Green Line doesn't stay there. It seeps back into Israel. And I think it's made it a more aggressive, more fearful society where people have lost perspective and where they've lost hope. And I think that you can't live in a perpetual state of conflict as what we're doing at the moment. And so unless we resolve the issue of occupation and go back to the idea that was accepted by the Jews in 1947 when we accepted Resolution 181 of the United Nations of two states on the land. And the fact that Jewish self-determination was not there at the expense of Palestinian self-determination. And until we go back to that, we will have an ongoing issue unresolved in Israel, and we'll have a country which does not reach its full potential.

SPEAKER_01:

We've got a very strong group of extremists on the far right who've claimed the label religious Zionist, who are very powerful, very outspoken, and seem to be able to gather a degree of passion that hasn't got its equivalence in among the moderates. How do we get the kind of passion for liberalism and fairness that we are seeing among the far right for a very different vision of Israel?

SPEAKER_03:

I think one of the things, and this is not only a struggle of Israel democracy, of liberal democracy in Israel. This we're seeing this in Europe, we're seeing this in the United States, we're seeing this around the world. And that is that we have to really stop being wishy-washy and weak moderates. We have to start being passionate moderates with very, very clear red lines. And those red lines for us are about what liberal democracy means and not being open to negotiation that democracy can be whatever anybody wants, illiberal, ethnic, majoritarian, and that fairness is for all citizens of Israel and a universal principle. It's not first and foremost for white guys or orthodox straight white guys. It's a universal principle. And that secure peace is for all those living between the river and the sea, eight million Jews and eight million Palestinians, of whom 10 million are citizens of Israel, of whom 2 million are Palestinian citizens. So clarity, moral clarity, is absolutely fundamental. In terms of passion, we have to understand that we who are and our data show this part of a majority. And when we're combined, citizens of Israel and world jury are very, very significant majority, that our futures are at stake, our vision for the greatest project of the Jewish people since the building of the temple, the identity of our children, the education of our children, our security, our place among the nations. If all of that isn't enough to fire us up, then God forbid we should have further calamities.

SPEAKER_01:

So you've referred here to the key issue, one of the key issues, which is the involvement of diaspora Jews in this project. To what extent do you think diaspora Jews have a right and a responsibility to speak about the kind of Israel we want? It's always said we don't pay taxes, our children don't serve in the army. Why should we say what kind of Israel Israelis live with?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I I I start off by saying that you know, when we think when we all talk about Israel, we talk about Israel as a nation state of the Jewish people. Well the Jewish people is the Jewish people, not it's not the nation state of the Jews of Israel, it's the nation state of the Jews of around the world. And so I think if it is a nation state of the Jewish people, then the Jewish people have both obligations, which is certainly what most diaspora Jews feel, but they also have rights to participate. The second point I want to make is that when the founding fathers of Israel put together the Declaration of Independence, one of the most important clauses was a call for di Jews in the diaspora to rally around their brothers in Israel for the upbuilding of the state. And after all, Israel is a creature of the diaspora. And so our agency and our right to be involved, to my mind, is not a controversial or debatable proposition. And the idea that we have nothing to bring to the table is preposterous. We have a set of experiences, we have skills, we have the capacity to leverage, we have all these things to do, and our voice should and must be heard. And Israelis who today are out on the streets of Israel protesting about the direction of travel and complaining about what is happening, are looking to us for support. And we should support them. And we can practically do that through our philanthropy and how we direct our philanthropy, and we can practically do that with who we engage with in Israel and how we can assist them in establishing the narrative that Mike was talking about, which reflects the passion of people for liberal democracy, for fairness, for pursuit of a secure peace. Because at the moment, the center and the left has lost that narrative. And the reason why the right that you spoke about is so dominant and so powerful is because they not only kept a narrative, they have enhanced that narrative. And so we can help develop a narrative which can be a counterbalance to that, which can take us forward in terms of the journey we want to travel.

SPEAKER_01:

Do Israelis want to hear from Diasper Jews, Mark?

SPEAKER_03:

Israelis want to hear and they absolutely need to hear. That's all our data show that over 70% of Israelis care about world jury. They need to hear from world jury now, as they are in a struggle, of course, since October the 7th, in a struggle after the brutal attack of Hamas, but since January 2023 in the judicial coup, the attack of their own government on uh Israel's democratic institutions and uh foundations. So they absolutely need to hear that. And it's not only Jewish Israelis who need to hear it, Arab citizens of Israel who are being set upon by their own government, even while they're providing medical aid and teaching Jewish Israelis and playing an important role in society and the economy. They're also being set upon. So they also need encouragement and support. But there's a flip side to that, Deborah, and that is, and we're very much engaged in making sure that Israelis of all backgrounds know just what world jury has gone through since the 7th of October, and what is aggravated when their government is careless or irresponsible with proclamations or with extremist policies that obviously don't cause anti-Semitism because anti-Semitism is a disease of millennia, but aggravate anti-Semitism and make the lives of Jewish young people on campuses around the world less comfortable. So it's a mutual relationship of needing to support each other.

SPEAKER_01:

So, on that question of aggravating anti-Semitism, that is one of the issues that people always bring up when we talk about the need to call out problems in Israel, problems with the Israeli government, that there is a fear that it's, quote, washing our dirty linen in public, that it will aggravate anti-Semitism or give ammunition to Israel's enemies. How do you respond to that?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I guess I respond to it in this way. I think we should be more concerned about not about washing our dirty laundry in public, about who made the laundry dirty in public. And that should be our concern and address that issue. Then we wouldn't have to do any washing if we preempted it. Having said that, I think I need to say that people who hate Jews and who hate the concept of the State of Israel for whatever reason will always hate Jews and always hate the concept of the State of Israel, irrespective of what is said and what is done by me, Mike, or anybody else. They have their own language, they have their own narrative, and they will keep that language and narrative, and they don't actually get anything from us. So the idea that we will aggravate or give them strength to pursue their agenda even more provocatively than they're doing at the moment is just a false narrative. From our point of view, we have to focus on what we should be doing ourselves and put aside, other than being concerned about the safety of people in the diaspora, put aside the views and the thoughts of people who hate us because they will hate us because they hate us without cause.

SPEAKER_03:

I think if I can just also come in on that, beyond completely agreeing with that position, it's hugely important at this moment, as we see the data of generational shift of across world jury, children and grandchildren moving away from Israel and in some senses from their Jewish identity, because of, of course, their Zionism and their Judaism are uh you know intimately connected. And as we see that generational drift, that speaking up and speaking out, even while there are challenges, is critical because we face the possibility, and we're seeing this. We're seeing this in the data, and we're hearing this in very painful stories, where children and grandchildren are either just checking out or they're going to be Jews for Palestine. They're not Jews for what the founders envisaged of a national homeland for the Jewish people, ever fairer to all of its citizens, extending its hand in peace to neighbors, neighbors willing. And so we need to take the initiative on all of that together, because that's also about all of our children's futures.

SPEAKER_01:

So the younger generation in particular seems to be picking up there on a clash of values, a clash between the values of diaspora Jews and of traditional Judaism, really, the humanist values, and the values that are being played out in contemporary Israel. Do you want to speak to that, to the difference in values? Why have the two parts of the Jewish world developed such a different value set?

SPEAKER_03:

I think part of it, and it's really important that we have a, I think, a more mature and sophisticated understanding of this, is contextual. It's very different living as a minority to living as a majority. And for me, who made Aliyah when I was 18 from England, the transition from minority identity to majority identity really sets out what I think is the central moral challenge of Zionism, and that is how to behave well, grounded in the Jewish ethical tradition that has also informed democracy when one has the power to behave badly. And Israel has had successes in that regard, and it's had failures in that regard. And we're also caught up in a tension within Judaism and other traditions between universalism and tribalism. Now, you don't have to be a very smart minority, whether you're the Australian Jewish minority or British or American or any other diaspora community, to think that minority rights and universalism are a good idea. It's a lot more challenging when you're part of the majority. And when that majority is in the Middle East, in an extremely hostile region with countless geopolitical and strategic challenges, it's far, far more challenging. And I think in a mature relationship between all citizens of Israel and world jury, we need to understand the majority-minority perspectives far better. In terms, though, of the moral challenge, we have to, for me, maintain our moral backbone. I refuse to believe that the Jewish contribution to ethics and then to universalism and to democracy was circumstantial to maintain that, which is why I say with respect to Australian Jews and to my family in the UK, please don't check in your universal and democratic and liberal values at Melbourne International or at Heathrow. They're needed in Israel. And those values are not values of weakness. Those are values that will make Israel's national homeland to the Jewish people far stronger, far more attractive to all of our children, and where our founders aspire that Israel would be in a distinguished place among the nations.

SPEAKER_00:

But I think also the other thing which I think is really important, Joe, is that life is complex today. There's much more complexity that the emerging generation has to face. They are faced with the challenges of what is democratic intent in their own countries. There has been a general move to illiberalism in the last few years. So that's the world where young people are entering into. You overlay that with the challenge of actually competing with their value systems, competing with the perception that Israel is failing those value systems. And their natural reaction is to say, this is just simply too much for me. You know, I'm going to check out of this because it is too much. And the minute they start checking out of their connectivity to Israel and their Zionist identity, the next step is to check out of their Jewish identity. And that's a big worry and should be a big worry for all the leaders of institutional jury today. And I think what young people are saying is we want to hear a voice which expresses our concerns and our complexities and challenges in this in this values debate and this values challenge that is taking place. And they're actually asking for leadership to be at the front of that and to show leadership, and they are not being satisfied at the moment on that issue.

SPEAKER_01:

There does seem to be a very strong polarization, and it's also reflected in a very unhelpful kind of left-right politics, in which to be associated with a bunch of other leftist political ideas is to be pro-Palestinian, and to be associated with a bunch of right-wing ideas is to be pro-Israel. How do we break that nexus, which is so unhelpful?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's actually deeply ironic. I mean, I I was the chief executive of the Conservative Party, hardly left in any way whatsoever. And yet, in relation to Israel, I'm considered to be a left-wing pinko. Politics actually is not about what you agree with. Politics is about dealing with the issues that you disagree with. And the things that we disagree with are the questions: is Israel going to be a mature liberal democracy? Is that fundamental to Israel's resilience going forward? Is Israel going to live with internationally recognized boundaries or is it going to continue in occupation of the Palestinian people and not have recognized boundaries? Is Israel going to be satisfied with that sections of the population receive less benefit and less attention, and others give less to the community and benefit greatly? Are those the things that they're going to be satisfied with? And if those are issues which we're not going to be satisfied with, we have to develop a narrative which says how we're going to address that and fight for that narrative and fight for it to be implemented. If we do that, then we can move away from this ridiculous labeling of left-wing communists or supporters of these people and right-wing thinkers who believe in free enterprise and support of those people. It's not that. This has got to do about have you got a narrative which is credible and a narrative which in fact you can take forward.

SPEAKER_03:

We know what fairness means. So when a government is being unfair to progressive Jews because they're progressive Jews, the majority, by the way, of world jury, when a government is cutting back on rights to LGBTQ communities, when a government is seeking to divert funds from Arab tax-paying citizens of Israel to give extra funds to those who are paying less taxes often and getting more benefits, then we know that that's not fairness. And we also know, and if we don't know after the October the 7th, then it's really time to know, okay, that security and peace are not polar opposites. So those are all simple propositions. So we, in a sense, have to set aside the intellectual jungle, which is really, really, really complex to navigate. And that complexity is also intentional in some sense, and get on with these clear propositions. And the fourth proposition is that through partnership, we will be stronger between citizens of Israel, world jury, like-minded world jury and international allies, we can move Israel in the direction as set out by the founders. And that is a win-win-win proposition.

SPEAKER_01:

And why now? Why is now the time we need to do it? What has happened that has made this a matter of urgency at this time?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think first of all, the gerrymandering of the constitutional propositions with in Israel, with the attempt to remove the guardrails of the ability of the Supreme Court to review legislation, of attacking the independence of the Attorney General and all the things that go with that reflects a change of strategy and direction by the right-ling political movement in Israel, which should worry all of us because they are seeking to rewrite the basis in which Israel is run and governed. And that is in the scheme of things, very bad news in terms of Israel's resilience. The horrific event of October the seventh should have said to people in the loudest possible voice, not so much the failures of the security force at that particular point in time, but the failure of the proposition that you can manage a conflict indefinitely. It is impossible to manage. And this in no way justifies what happens, but it tells you that it will always happen and will continue to happen while there is oxygen for extremists to breathe. And the only way that you take away the oxygen is to take away what causes the oxygen to be there, and that is the conflict. And conflicts have to be resolved. And I hear all the time from people who accuse me of being naive that there is no basis of peace because we don't have partners to negotiate with, because the Palestinians inherently don't want us there. You know, their mantra is from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Not true. Not true. There's always somebody to negotiate with. There have been contracts throughout the conflicts without history which have been which people have thought to be intractable, whether it's Northern Ireland, El Salvador, the Civil War in Mozambique, South Africa apartheid regime, I could name dozens of conflicts which ultimately found resolution. How? Because the people involved recognize two important things. One is that the cost of continuing the conflict outweighed anything else, that you could not achieve what you thought you could achieve, whether it is maximalization and the annexation of the West Bank or whatever, you cannot achieve it at a cost which is acceptable. And secondly, that if you have leadership with vision and with principle, the people who are doubtful about whether you can succeed in a peaceful resolution or follow leadership who give them that vision that it is capable of being done. And Israel is a great example of that because in 1974, immediately after the Onkipur War, in 1973, immediately after the Onkipur War, Israelis did not believe that there could be peace with Egypt. In 1977, when Anwar Sadat came to Jerusalem and spoke at the Knesset, a survey immediately after that showed that 80% of Israeli Jewish adults felt that peace with Israel was possible and peace actually happened. Why? Because you had two leaders of principle, a right-wing Prime Minister Menachem Begin, one of the most principled politicians in Israel's history, and a principled politician from Egypt who decided both that the course of direction they were in was too costly, and for the benefit of their own people, they had to find a different way, and that way was peace. And they did it. And it is possible to do that, and that's what we have to hold on to.

SPEAKER_03:

I would just add to that that within the network that we're building are very, very prominent security experts, generals from Israel Defense Forces, because obviously naivety cannot be part of any strategy of secure peace. And it is not by chance that the overwhelming majority of security alumni of Israel and international friends in the US, also security establishment, believe that this has to be the way forward for Israel's ultimate security, which is secure peace.

SPEAKER_01:

So what gives you hope? What makes you think that Israel is capable of democratic renewal and moving to a safe society, a fair society and on a pathway to peace?

SPEAKER_00:

I look at a a civil society that when the government went AWOL after October the 7th, who rose up and basically helped the destitute, you know, gave a safe haven to those in trauma, who went to pick oranges on the kibbutzim because the people were had gone off to war, and who made sure that the country rebuilt itself and resurrected itself. I look at Arab doctors who treat Jewish children and Jewish doctors who treat Arab children. I look at the resilience of a society who can at times soar with the angels in terms of what they can achieve and what they have brought to the world. That tells me that it is totally and utterly possible. And there is such potential there. And the potential is harnessed with hope and with vision and not with hatred and aggression. And we can achieve hope and vision, we will get there.

SPEAKER_03:

There has been a journey, a long, long journey, in which, largely thanks to the work of civil society, in large part supported by the Jewish people and Jewish philanthropy around the world and the generosity of world jury before Israelis had wealth and started their own philanthropy, which is now flourishing, a journey of advancing towards the vision of the founders. I, on the ground, work with citizens of Israel of all backgrounds, and I can assure you that women are not wanting to go back before the 6th of October. Arab citizens of Israel. An Arab citizen of Israel has already been the chairman of Banklumi, Israel's largest bank. My own eyesight was repaired by an Arab surgeon. Thousands of Arab citizens of Israel are now teaching in. Jewish Israeli schools across the school system. So there is progress. The LGBTQ community is freer than certainly anywhere else in the Middle East by a mile. So we are making progress. The occupation, as Mick has said, is a millstone, a tribal millstone, a millstone that is threatening this entire journey. And it has to be addressed. But I am extremely optimistic. The struggle has been incredible. The strength of civil society is inspiring. The courage of our young people, and I think the growing understanding among world jury that you have skin in the game. Because, like it or not, as a liberal Zionist, I absolutely like it. But after the 7th of October, whatever happens in Israel is going to impact world jury. And therefore, if we partner and work together, we will, as the endangered majority, which we are, we will continue Israel's journey and that of Israel's national homeland of the Jewish people and of stronger partnership between Israel and World Jury.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for your inspiration and your vision and your work. You've been listening to Sir Mick Davis and Mike Preshka, founders of the London Initiative. We at the Jewish Independent will continue to cover these issues closely, particularly as Israel moves into an election year. Thank you both for speaking up and out and for reminding us of the importance of using our voices to build liberal democracy, fairness, and peace in Israel.