Why Sleep Struggles Could Be More Than Just Tired Kids

Dr. Layne Martin, initially focused on veneers and crowns, shifted his career after collaborating with dentists specializing in complex cases, particularly influenced by Victor Avis. Avis emphasized the importance of airway issues, which Dr. Martin explored further, realizing that symptoms like teeth grinding and narrow jaws often signal airway problems. This insight led him to pursue specialized training in airway health, enhancing his expertise and reinforcing the crucial link between dentistry and overall health.

They explore common misconceptions about sleep disorders, their impact on children, and the crucial signs to watch out for as parents. Dr. Martin emphasizes the importance of addressing the root causes of these issues rather than just the symptoms, drawing from his extensive experience in restorative dentistry. He also introduced us to innovative solutions like a specialized mouthpiece and the Open Air Pillow, designed to improve sleep quality for both children and adults, including those with PTSD and anxiety.

Takeaways

1. Kids should always be dry, calm, and quiet (in regards to sleep).
2. Sleep habits impact our behavior.
3. Good sleep is an essential part of our body's development.

Timestamps

00:00 Dentists notice airway problems linked to dentistry.
05:58 Sleep impacts growth hormone, brain development, and orthodontics.
07:15 Kids grind teeth due to airway issues.
11:04 Parents should proactively address children's health concerns.
12:57 Pediatric dentist identified airway problem, transformative intervention.
17:45 Pillow trials improve sleep and airway issues.
20:28 Passion for impacting millions over private practice.
23:45 Narrow jaws and bite issues affect treatment.
28:24 Assess acid reflux, heartburn, ear, and jaw issues.
29:24 Sharing treatment message broadly, inspired by My Pillow.

🔗 Connect with Dr. Layne Martin

Email: lmartin@gpsfordental.com
Websites: www.openairpillow.com | www.airvata.com

🔗 Connect with Jessica Anger and Carrie Wiesenfeld:
Instagram | info@parentcoachesunleashed.com
Soaring Hawk Life Coaching |  Ocean Waves Parenting

Transcript

0:02

Welcome to parent coaches unleashed with Carrie and Jessica, where no topics are taboo or off limits. Join us as we let loose and discuss the real raw feelings about parenting. In each episode, we will bring you heartfelt discussions, real life stories, and special guests that will both entertain you and encourage community so no one feels alone in their parenting journey. Thanks so much for listening. Now let's start the show. Hi, everybody. So today, I have a really interesting story for you. Carrie and I have a guest, doctor Lane Martin. Hi, Lane. Hello, Lane. Hi, Carrie. Hi. So Lane and I met at a dinner party at a friend's house, and we just had regular small talk. Oh, what do you do? What do you do? And Lane had a really interesting story where he started out as a dentist and got into orthodontist and eventually became involved with helping people with sleep disorders and disturbances. But what was interesting to me was the child part of it because when you think of a sleep disorder or disturbance in my mind and probably an antiquated way of thinking, but I thought of an older obese person who was having sleeping issues. And clearly that is not the case. And doctor Layne Martin is here to talk to us about the implications that interrupted sleep could have for our children. We really feel that this could be so informative to so many parents as they observe their children and their behaviors. So welcome, Lane. Let's start. How did your journey through dentistry bring you here? Yeah. I have had a very convoluted career and story. So I actually received the scholarship from the US Navy for dental school. I joined the Navy to do oral surgery and ended up getting out of the Navy, did not do surgery, joined a big cosmetic practice in Manhattan, New York. It was great. I was seeing a lot of celebrities. I was working with some amazing specialists. And I kinda went down this rabbit hole where I was doing dentistry at a very high level. And I ended up teaching and I would meet with these dentists that did very complex dentistry. And we we'd meet once a month. And one of the dentists in the group, a gentleman named Victor Avis, every time we would present, like, a very complex case, he'd be like the patient has an airway problem. And I'm like, what the heck is he talking about? I just wanna do my veneers and crowns and kind of live this lifestyle. And after about the 50th time, I was like, alright, Victor, explain to me this airway thing. And once he started explaining it to me, I realized that the things that we see every day as a dentist or even a pediatric dentist, a lot of times are the signs of an airway problem. Things from people that clench and grind their teeth to people that have narrow jaws or recess jaws. So what happened was I started doing these airway residences and I was starting to recognize these things in patients, but I didn't know how to fix it. Okay. So fast forward, it's about 2018, 2019. I start researching how to fix airway problems. And I realized that orthodontics is a way to mitigate a lot of these signs and symptoms. So at the age of 42, I sold my dental practice and I went to do an orthodontic and craniofacial orthopedic residency. And everyone is like, what are you talking about? You're going back to school. I mean, my mentors are like, you're crazy. But it was really an moment for me because I felt like you don't know what you don't know. So I would never sit on a podcast or I would never go on a lecture and and beat up other practitioners. It's just we're not taught that. And until someone pointed that out to me, I never even recognized it. So I went in to do orthodontics. And while I was at my orthodontic residency, I had a patient of mine that passed away from Sleep Act. And the problem was that when I treated him, I knew he had a problem. And I went and I told him to go get a sleep test and he never went. And now he's gone. And I and I think what was the in reality is if it happened in my office, it's happening in every dental office in the country, especially at Sure. And you brought up a great point, Jessica. You know, we thought of it at least when I thought about sleep apnea, I would always think of it as this pick wiki and fat purse. But I mean, I snore. I see tons of fit men and women that snore. And to your point about the children, that's a huge problem. And while I was in my orthodontic residency and fellowship, I was really starting to recognize these things in children because I would see these kids that are coming in from having a cognitive issue to a behavior issue, and all these kids are on stimulants. And that's really a problem in our country is we treat symptoms. Yeah. Right. We don't treat the problem. I mean, I treated symptoms my entire restorative dental career. Someone would break a tooth and I do a crown on them. And what was happening was I was making a lot of these patients worse. And in terms of children, it's, you know, I always say kids should be calm, quiet, and dry. So calm, no hyperactivity. Okay. Dry, no bed wetting or drool. And quiet, no kind of grinding your teeth or snoring. So what was happening is, especially when I was in my fellowship and residency, I would start looking at these children a lot differently. And even something as simple as, you know, if you see a 12 year old and they look like they're 6, you know, they could potentially have an airway problem. They're not producing growth hormone. And that's How is that an airway how is that an airway problem? Because what happens is when you get into a certain part of your sleep cycle, in kids, we produce growth hormone. In adults, it's more reparative sleep. So kids, if they're not getting into that cycle of sleep, they're not gonna produce growth hormone the same way as a child that's sleeping better or that's sleeping throughout the night that's not having an airway problem. So what happens I always talk about orthodontics as really being more about brain development than teeth. Your brain is almost fully developed by the age of 5. So a lot of times what we were doing is we were looking at early intervention orthodontics, addressing a lot of these things in these kids that were having the ADD, ADHD, symptoms like that. And then in terms of the growth hormone, like, this was me. I was this kid. I was 5 foot 2 up until 12th grade high school. You met me. I'm 5 11 now. So I had a big growth spurt, but I was a sick kid that became a sick addict. And a lot of it stems from lack of breastfeeding. So breastfeeding is obviously there's a benefit of the nutritional value, but really the benefit of breastfeeding is help forming your craniofacial complex, your face from the sucking. The other thing is hard foods. I grew up on Gerber baby food, and my mom is a nurse, so I wasn't breastfed. And I never developed properly. And that's kind of the things that we're looking at is, like, if your child has these things, you know. And the other thing is a lot of kids do grind their teeth. And will they grow out of it? Potentially. But I always say no child should snore and grind their teeth. And the grinding the teeth is, you know, sometimes it is the way your teeth come into your mouth and the way they develop, but a lot of times it's grinding is a tonsil and adenoid issue. It's an airway problem. So the simplest way that I explain it to patients is if I ask Carrie and you why someone grinds their teeth, what's the answer that most people give me, you think? Stress. Stress. Stress. It's stress from suffocating. Because my response is, did the 3 or 4 year old have a tough day at the office? Right. No. They're having what I call as an airway problem. The the best analogy is if if you're speeding on the highway and you go past the cop and you look in your rear view mirror and you see the cop pulling out, what happens to your body when you see the police officer? Your heart rate goes up, your blood pressure goes up, and you clench down. You go into fight or flight. So think about how crappy that feels for 20 seconds. Now on the adult side, that could happen 200 times a night. Those are people that are in fight or flight all the time, and a lot of it is probably contributory towards things like bedwetting. So is there a correlation I'm sorry. Is there a correlation between maybe children who were bedwetting to future issues with their airway and yes? Absolutely. I mean, my business partner is a world famous TMJ specialist. When him and I get up and lecture, he talks about bedwetting all the time. He was bedwetting till he was 9 years old. You know, it's something that I see here in New York. A lot of parents on the upper east side couldn't send their kids to sleepwake camp because their kids are bed wetting or sending them to sleepovers. It's a very debilitating problem. Yeah. And sometimes it's something as simple as having the kids have a palatal expander, having their lower jaw come forward because those are things that are contributory towards having an airway problem. So I always look at palatal expansion from an orthodontic standpoint. The roof of your mouth is the floor of your nose. So when we talk about these airway things, the first thing I look at is nasal patency, being able to breathe through your nose properly. The second thing is soft tissue. So that's the tonsils and adenoids. Those are the kids that are sometimes tongue tied and have speech issues. The last piece is what we do anatomically of getting the jaws to have more room or getting the lower jaw forward. You know, this is really feels like an because I was a bed wetter, and I am a teeth grinder. So, you know, I don't know if I was grinding while I was a child. I but based on what you're saying, it's more than likely that I was grinding. Yeah. And and so that's the that that I'm I didn't mean to interrupt, but that's the point that I screwed up royally as a dentist. Every patient would come in, they would grind their teeth. So what would I do? I'd build their teeth up. I'd give them a night guard and be like, here. You know, this is your insurance policy that what I do for you isn't gonna break. But what I was missing was I was missing the rationale and the reason why they were grinding their teeth. Yeah. And that's not what we do. Right? Their education now like, is their education with pediatricians and parents? Like, is this information obviously, that's why we have you on today to try to reach parents. But how would parents know this information, and how would they be guided towards you to see that there's something going on than what they're thinking? Right? They probably go to their pediatrician. Why is my child still wetting the bed? Yeah. So it's a great question, and it's something that the parents need to be proactive. You need to walk into the pediatric dentist. You need to walk into the pediatrician and say, my son or daughter is grinding their teeth, and they're snoring, and they're wetting their bed. And if it's not getting addressed, then you need to find a different practitioner that's going to address it. Because and that's the other thing too. I know a lot of great orthodontists and pediatric dentists now that are doing early intervention orthodontics that really help out a lot of these kids. So when I see a kid with an airway problem, my first referral is the pediatric Ian because I wanna rule out the soft tissue, the tonsils and adenoids. The second thing is I work a lot with what's called the myofunctional therapist, which is really like a speech pathologist for your tongue. And a lot of oral myologists or speech pathologists do myofunctional therapy. We have someone great in Florida that I use. So there's a lot of great people that are starting to become aware of these things. It's a huge hot topic in dentistry now as well. So is it okay. You mentioned teeth grinding and snoring. Are there any other red flags that parents should be looking for that could point to a a sleep disturbance or an airway issue? So for I I would say things like delayed speech, delayed growth, cognitive issues, behavior issues. There's a great, great video that one of the academies made. It's called finding Connor Deegan. It's a mom whose son was at the time, it's not a diagnosis. It's now it was a diagnosis, oppositional defiant disorder and also an add. And the kid was getting shuffled around from one doctor to another. And the mom was, like, really beside herself because she's like, my son is having all these problems. He's really a gifted kid, but just can't focus. And a pediatric dentist in Chicago was the one that really recognized that the kid had an airway problem. He ended up getting his tonsils and adenoids out. He got a palatal of spander and the kid was a different kid. Mhmm. I mean, every time I watch it, I cry because I'm like, that was my story and the impact that you could have. And a lot of these kids are slipping through the cracks. Now, especially when I was a resident and I saw a kid that I thought had a problem, I would always ask the parent. Now, sometimes parents are in denial or they just don't know. So what I would say is do me a favor. Just film your son or daughter sleeping. And when you witness a kid gasping or snoring, that is an eye opening experience to a parent, and that's something that absolutely needs to be addressed. No child should snore. And and I have to imagine so many parents, that's such a hard thing to diagnose just because after their infancy, how many people are actually sitting there watching their child sleep? Exactly. Yeah. So I think it's something as you know, especially in orthodontics now, I I look at faces where I I only looked at teeth. So there's certain angles that I look at that I'm already thinking like, alright, that person might have an airway problem. And and it's kinda this angle under your chin. Now the issue is for kids, our lower jaw grows after our upper jaw. So Okay. A lot of the the problems are really related to tongue and tongue position. So that's why things like tongue tie and that's something I also ask parents. Did the child have a hard time latching on if they attempted to breastfeed? Alright. So when someone finds you or another provider, can you walk us through what you do to help them once we, you know, you know that this is the issue? Yeah. Like I said, the first thing, especially on a child is I refer to a pediatric ENT because I really wanna rule out the tonsils and adenoids. The second thing is I focus on nasal breathing. So there's things that they could do like a neti stick, which is like almost looks like a Vicks Vapor inhaler. Mhmm. So it's saline, sometimes to just lubricate. And then also, we use intake nasal dilators. They look like Breathe Right steps. Okay. And on certain kids, you could use it too. So the the it it starts with nasal breathing and then it goes into the soft tissue. And then a lot of times I refer right to a pediatric dentist or an orthodontist to try to get early intervention. Orthodontics helps out a lot of these kids. Now it's not gonna help out everyone because a lot of kids that do get tonsils and adenoids out still do have an airway problem based on anatomy, based on if their lower jaw is too far back. So then what? What are their options? That's when I would recommend taking the child to the orthodontist. Okay. And then the other thing is for adults, it's a little different. So my partner and I developed a mouthpiece that just got FDA cleared. So people that either use a CPAP or are not compliant on it could wear a mouthpiece, or you can do it in combination. The problem is sometimes those people fail if they sleep on their back. So the other product we developed was a pillow. So I have Okay. I actually have a kid's version of a pillow that we're testing probably within the next month or 2 because it's the same thing. Everyone should sleep on their side. People shouldn't sleep on their back. Okay. Because of that way. If you sleep on your back, gravity takes over, your tongue falls back, and a lot of times, your jaw falls back as well. So I'm just curious with your mouthpiece in adults, have you had reports of adults using your mouthpiece and then sleeping better and maybe resolve issues that have been going on for years with them? Absolutely. I mean, you know, the mouthpiece, we get incredible feedback. The pillow was really more of a necessity because what I would do is I would look at a lot of the patients that were using our mouthpiece, and we had a really good success rate. What I really wanted to see were the people that weren't successful and why were they not successful. And a lot of those patients weren't successful when they were lying on their back. So when I look at a sleep test, it's amazing information, and I could see where they're having the most event. And a lot of times, it was when they were on their back. So one of my best friends is an ear, nose, and throat doctor. We were treating a friend. He told them to put a tennis ball on their t shirt, but I'm like, that doesn't make any sense because if they roll on a tennis ball or use one of these things from Amazon, it'll potentially wake them up. So I he's, what would you do? I said, I don't know. I'd probably design a pillow. People are already sleeping on a pillow, and we kinda designed a pillow. I ended up making the first version of the pillow, and now we have a pillow company. And the fact is the pillow is great. And the reason I love the pillow and I'm passionate about it is everyone's already sleeping on a pillow. Everyone doesn't have the luxury to go to the doctor and the dentist. So right now I'm doing clinical trials on the pillow to see if I could take adults and kids that have airway and sleep issues and see if I could even reduce some of those just with a pillow. And we're getting some pretty amazing results. I didn't think our pillow would work that well, and it's pretty I was on the phone today with a gentleman that just had a hip replacement. He has our pillow. He brought it to the hospital with him, and he's like, Lane, I went from getting up to pee 2 to 3 times a night to sleeping throughout the whole night. And I'm like, that's amazing. Just from our What is what does the pillow look like? What is how does it work? So I'll give you guys the website. It's called right now, it's called the Open Air Pillow. It literally looks like a better version of a pregnancy pillow. It's shaped like an l. We have a patent on it. It's like creating a fulcrum. So when the head part goes down, the back part pops up, and it's a material that is very responsive, and it's very comfortable. I'm signing my husband up for the pillow and the trial. He wants to, because he actually he fits right into the demo, but he already had he was a child with the chin grew, you know, recessed over the nose. As an adult, he had major jaw surgery, then orthodontics again. And so I think the pillow I think we're gonna be a customer. Yeah. I I can't sleep without the pillow. Like, I've hacked my sleep because a couple years ago, I was snoring. I was tired. I would need coffee by 4 or 5 o'clock, and I definitely was starting to get a little bit of the brain fog. So I have our mouthpiece on our pillow. So I've kinda hacked my own sleep. You're gonna need to make a a travel pillow though because right? Or we're all gonna have to stay home. I agree with I'm working on and, you know, part so it's interesting. My co CEO in the pillow is an air force veteran. I'm a navy veteran. We're gonna be donating pillows to active duty and veterans. Part of our brand, which is why as much as I love our mouthpiece and I love kinda teaching, the pillow is really amazing because I even think our kids version of the pillow is gonna be bigger than our adult version of the pillow because that's a big thing. Right? When so many kids don't sleep properly. When you don't sleep properly, that's when the kids are getting a lot of the hyperactivity, a lot of the cognitive issues. And then they're not getting oxygen to a certain part of their brain. Sleep habits start or healthy sleep habits should start at a very young age. Yeah. And so if Layne, have you had any personal success stories like Connor or Deegan? Have you seen such an improvement? Oh, yeah. I mean, you hear it every day. I mean, that's what kinda lights me up is that when you hear a story like this guy that's sleeping on the pillow amazing or a kid that we've treated or someone we did palatal expansion on, that's just a different kid, like, that's that to me is a success story. I mean, listen, we're all everyone wants to make a living, but I'm really fortunate now that I love waking up every day doing what I'm doing. And because, I I mean, I just got pressed a couple of months ago. I ran into a mentor of mine, and he's like, I can't believe you're not in private practice every day, and you are so good. And, you know, personality wise, I feel like your patients really loved you. And I walked away from it thinking like, man, maybe I should go back into private practice, but instead of touching a 1000 people, the opportunity to touch 200,000,000 people, that's what lights me up every day. And, you know, I did training because I realized that I had to start getting on podcasts and getting in front of large groups of people. And I did some CEO public speaking training, and we did it with a guy that played in the NFL. And he's and he said 3 very profound things that I kind of live by now. He said the first thing is I want you to go in the opposite direction of everyone else, which my business partner is a gentleman named Michael Gelb. He's a world famous TMJ specialist. Like I said, he's probably one of the biggest disruptors in dentistry, and rightfully so. Him and his father were pioneers in sleepiness. 2nd, he's like, I want you to be able to walk in a Starbucks and not and have people not be able to look away. And, you know, I think I'm working on that. The other thing is he's like, stop apologizing for being the best. And that took me a little while to understand. And I felt like I've been apologizing my whole life for being good at something. And now to be able to get in front of people and share the message and help, you know, your listeners help their kids like that, to me, is what lights me up. And, you know, I've gotten some pushback from people, and I got up and lectured and I, you know, I even about our mouthpiece because I'm boarded in sleep with this dental organization. And I said, I'm like, every dentist should be able to make a sleep appliance. You know, every dentist makes night cards. That's our sleep appliance. It's just a better night card because that's what people understand and that's what a lot of dentists understand. But if you're making a nightguard for a patient, you're basically saying that patient's grinding and clenching. And when someone's grinding and clenching, they're probably going into fight or flight. And that's kind of the message to even if you have listeners that are dentists or they're they know a dentist, that's the message that we wanna get out. Like, the grinding, clenching, that's a compensation for a bigger problem. For something. So if you're a grinder, what should you be asking your dentist? Is there something specific that we should be asking our dentists about? It it should, and they basically should just look at it a little differently. Because what I was saying before is the issue with grinding and clenching is that I didn't really understand it. I'm just a dentist now. Just look at it differently and treat it different. That's the message. Because what would I do? I'd always make people an upper night guard. Right. That's what I had. But the problem is most of us have a deficient upper jaw. A lot of us have very narrow jaws. So when now if you put in an upper night guard in a child or an adult that has a narrow upper jaw, it's taking up tongue speaks. The only time your teeth should touch is when you swallow food, about 10 to 15 minutes a day. So we get pushed back a lot because with our sleep appliances and other things we do orthodontically, people like, oh, that person's bite's gonna change. You're gonna screw up their bite. And listen, I need people to obviously bite a certain way to be able to eat food. But at the end of the day, your teeth should only touch for 15 minutes a day. You have to breathe for 14 140 minutes a day. What's more important, staying aligned in breathing or how your teeth touch? I think they're both important, but what I'm saying is airway issues trumps anything else that I see in dentistry. The people still need dentistry. The kids still need orthodontics. You just have to look at those patients differently, including yourself, including myself of people that grind their teeth. Sure. So parents that are listening, if they want to get in more information or if they're questioning, wow. I think something's going on with my child. What would you recommend they do next? And how should they reach out to you? Should they first okay. Yeah. You can share my email, which is lmartin@gpsfordental.com. So l1@gpsfordental.com. Yep. And if people are interested in looking at the pillow, it's just openairpillow.com. Okay. We'll have our kids version out probably after the new year. Okay. And it even you know, it's something that we're gonna probably test out on a lot of kids and be able to get feedback from the parents is really helpful for that as well. Because really what we're trying to do, like I said, is really gamify sleep and make it more of how do you have these kids sleeping better. And part of our brand, even for the adult version of the pillow, and I was just with our our co CEO as a gentleman named JD, he's like, what's happening is you can go out and buy a $10,000 mattress, but no one's ever taught you how to sleep proper. I never knew how to sleep proper. That's that's so true. That's a great that's such a great point. And his whole argument is, it's the pillow. It has nothing to do really To do with the mattress. Pillow, and we could sleep on the ground on our pillow. That's how comfortable it is. And does it matter what side you sleep on? So that's a great question. I would say you should sleep on your left side if you have issues with high blood pressure, acid reflux, pregnancy. Right side more if you have cardiovascular issues, heart problem. Okay. And if you have none of those things, it doesn't make a difference which side? You're gonna you're gonna end up tossing and turning in the middle of the night. So if you go to our website, what I do with our pillow is I have it behind me and it almost like hugs me. And in the middle of the night, I roll over, and I actually hug it. And that's kinda what I do for that. I think it's also a great message to send to our parents to watch your child sleep just even for a snippet? Is there a certain time of night they would see this happen? Or It you know, that's also a great question. I would say the latter part of the night is sometimes a little bit better to observe when they're kind of into the REM stage of sleep, the dream stage of sleep. Because what happens in REM is that your our our sleep cycles are around 90 minutes. So what happens in REM is that your body's almost completely paralyzed except for your diaphragm or else you'd act out your dreams. So when I look at a sleep test, the numbers are significantly higher when someone's in the REM stage of sleep versus the non REM stage of sleep. So that's kinda where I wanna see a lot of where what's happening there. If you have an airway obstruct or disturbance, do can you get into a REM cycle sleep? Do does it prevent you from getting into a deep sleep? It it absolutely can prevent you from getting into a deep part of sleep, which is why a lot of people so the questions I always ask now I see a lot of adults now on the sleep side. The questions I always ask, are you aware that you snore? I never ask someone if they snore. It's still considered accusatory, even though 70% of the US population can snore right now. 2, could you be more refreshed? Who's not gonna answer that they could be more refreshed? Right? Right. The other thing is I also ask about acid reflux, heartburn, and then also having to get up and go to the bathroom. And those are a little bit deeper on the medical side in terms of like or certain comorbidities, but that's really important information for me to get. Now on the jaw side of treating a lot of patients with TMJ problems, and I learned that from my partner, it's a lot of ear issues. So things like tinnitus, ringer in the ears, muffled ear sounds. Sometimes a lot of kids are getting tubes in their ears. A lot of times that's from having their jaws being too pushed back. And that could be a whole other podcast for Av talking about ear issues and jaw pain. Well, how you said at the beginning that you felt like you did a disservice to so many of your patients. I'm kind of feeling that way about my kids now. My daughter had ear issues. My son has reflux. I think we're all gonna come pay you a visit while taking the trip into the city. Yeah. Well, this is why, you know, like, I'm one of my partners is in the room here with me that is helping us with the pillow. And it's like, how do you get this message across to the masses? Now what you guys do is incredible, and I'm always willing to kinda jump on a podcast and share our message of how do you get kids treated? How do you get adults treated? The beauty of the pillow company is really going to the masses. So it's so funny because people always ask me, they're like, oh my god, are you gonna be the next My Pillow guy? And I'm like, yeah. I wanna be that guy. I mean, without some of the the craziness, but we you know, my partner and I really have a great story. We we're coming at this from 2 different avenues. He's coming at it from the sleep and bedding side. I'm coming at it from the airway kinda health side. And we have a product that really helps children and adults sleep better with also the part of us donating it to people like veterans, like active duty people that are having issues with PTSD, anxiety, depression, and that's a massive problem. Yeah. Well, Lane, thank you so much for being with us today and for opening our eyes, our ears to these problems we didn't even know were out there. So yep. And we will put, links to reach Lane and to his pillow in our show notes so everyone will have access to him and the information. So Yeah. And you so much. Yeah. And and thank you guys both so much for for having me on, and and please, you know, share my email if anyone has any questions. Absolutely. And and I'm sure a lot of the the viewers and and people listening are in, I'm assuming, Florida. So I I really do know some great providers down there. One of our myofunctional therapists is down there, and she has a great network of people that she could refer to as well. Well, Lane, like you, we hope that we are reaching the millions as well. So Not just in Florida. Florida. That's right. Alright. Thanks so much for being with us today. Yep. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of We encourage you to send us an email with questions and feedback to info at parent coaches unleashed.com. Please remember you are not alone on this parenting journey.