Spirited Discussions: A Podcast by Montgomery County Alcohol Beverage Services

Underage Compliance Checks

• Jocelyn Rawat • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Learn how Montgomery County employs young adults to make sure businesses are not selling or serving alcohol to minors. ABS Compliance Manager Joe Cannon and MCPD Sergeant Patrick Kepp join host Jocelyn Rawat to define the underage compliance check program and how it helps to keep the community safe. Guests discuss what a compliance check looks like, how businesses are succeeding, why preventing underage drinking matters, and how people aged 18-20 can apply for this unique job.

Announcer:

Welcome to Spirited Discussions, a podcast by Alcohol Beverage Services, exploring alcohol products, trends, and policies in Montgomery County.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Thanks for joining us. I'm your host, Jocelyn Rawat, and today we're going to look at the partnership between Alcohol Beverage Services and the Montgomery County Police Department to conduct underage compliance checks at establishments that are licensed to sell alcohol. For that, I'm joined by the compliance manager at ABS, Joe Cannon. Joe has been with ABS for three years after serving 21 years at the Virginia ABC, retiring as a regional special agent in charge. Joe supervises a team of alcohol inspectors who ensure compliance with the rules and regulations. Hi, Joe.

Joe Cannon:

Hey, good afternoon, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Hi. Okay, so I'm also joined by Patrick Kepp, who is a sergeant in the Alcohol Initiatives Unit in the Montgomery County Police Department. He's been in this unit for five years, focused on impaired driving enforcement and education. Hi, Sergeant.

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

Hi, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, so before we um before we jump into today's topic, I just want to check in with you personally, Pat, people may be aware that in October of last year, you were involved in a terrible crash when a dangerous driver struck you, which led to the amputation of both your legs. I understand it's been a long recovery. So how are you doing?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

I'm doing very well. Uh I'm obviously here in some capacity doing some work back with the police department, which is a really, really awesome thing, just you know, a little more than nine months removed from from the crash. Um it's uh it's great to be back in some capacity and be able to work with my team and work with the rest of the department and start to kind of ease back into work. It's certainly not full duty work and and out on the road enforcing those traffic laws and things like that. But I'm able to do other things like we'll talk about today with compliance checks and um some teaching at the academy and some other places. So it's it's great to be back.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Well, we're glad you're back. I'm glad you're back. And I know I've talked to Joe, and he's glad you're back too. Okay, so let's jump into it. Joe, let's start with you. What is an underage compliance check?

Joe Cannon:

Okay, I always like to start off by saying these checks, they're not sting operations. The general public, they always joke and say, you know, they're sting operations or a gotcha moment. These are licensee um checks to where we focus on the underage service and selling of alcohol. Through the compliance check program, we make sure that our licensees are abiding by the laws, our checking IDs. It's more of a science-based program to where it's been validated nationally that these checks are the easiest way to actually ensure compliance with the laws and regulations of serving and selling the underage. It's been set up to where the places that we go into are our normal restaurants, our beer and wine shops, and our ABS stores again to ensure compliance. Um we hire 18 to 20 year olds. We want them to look their age. You know, that's one of the biggest misconceptions. We want um underage kids that look like they're 25 or 30. We want them to actually look their age to make sure that the licensees going to ask that question. How old are you? Let me see your ID. Let me see a second form of identification. But um that kind of summarized the things we look for in reference to our compliance check program. Some of the other things that we want the community to know and the general public to know that when we hire these underage youth, no facial hair for the young men, the young ladies, no excessive makeup or jewelry, we find out that if a young lady may show up with an expensive handbag, then may give the licensee the impression that they are a little older as well. It's one of those things that as a man, we just don't think about. But we've had past problems that were licensees would say they looked older and they had a $2,000 handbag. So when we really start getting into these programs, we remove all of the potential questions or issues from the licensee that were solely based on that face-to-face interaction with them looking at the physical features of this underage to say, yes, they appear to be under the age of 21. I need to verify, I need to check that identification.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, and just to make sure, underage means under the age of 21. You must be 21 years old to buy alcohol in the state of Maryland?

Joe Cannon:

Correct. So the program, again, we hire 18 to 20 year olds, so you have to at least be 21 years of age to purchase, possess, or consume any alcoholic beverages in the state of Maryland, of course, in Montgomery County as well.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, and is Montgomery County the only jurisdiction that does underage compliance checks?

Joe Cannon:

No, in the state of Maryland, all of the alcohol regulatory agencies do some form of compliance checks. There are a few counties that primarily focus on um the administrative portion of that to where they may not issue a summons, but they may still do an administrative charge against the licensed business. Now, nationally, there are approximately 39 states that approve some type of protocol directly associated with compliance checks.

Jocelyn Rawat:

So, Sergeant, what's the police department's role in this?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

So Joe just mentioned uh kind of those other counties in Maryland where they may just deal with the administrative side of things here in Montgomery County. That would be dealing with ABS and the liquor board and um the sanctions that come from those violations of their license. For us, we do deal with the criminal aspect of it too, because serving alcohol to a minor, and some minor being someone under 21, someone under 21 possessing it uh illegally, that is a crime. So we take care of kind of a support role along with ABS and um go in and supplement them to act in or to assist in their investigation and their data collection on the administrative side. But then we go on the enforce the criminal enforcement side and issue citations for providing alcohol to a minor to whoever sold the alcohol to that person. We work very closely with Joe and his inspectors and really just work in a support capacity. The the whole compliance check program isn't meant to be a a huge to-do or a huge focus. We kind of are in and out in plain clothes and just trying on especially on the back end provide education to make sure that nothing bad happens when it's not one of our underage volunteers that's involved.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, so when you go out to do these checks, it's it's a team of three. It's the underage volunteer who's the person between 18 and 20 years old, one of the alcohol inspectors and a police officer. Is that right?

Joe Cannon:

Yes, it can be a minimum of three, but we have recently utilized two underage volunteers going in to assist with some of the more busier places. So where if it may be a restaurant during the evening hours, it may look a little more legitimate to have two people going in to sit down at the bar or at a table as opposed to one person going in. So we do you we have utilized two underage volunteers during certain times.

Jocelyn Rawat:

So what about ABS's liquor stores? Do they automatically get a pass?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

No, absolutely not. We we check, we check all ABS stores, and I believe Joe can talk about it, but it's very difficult, if not be reasonable, impossible to check every licensed establishment in the county. However, all the ABS stores, the county stores do get checked every year.

Joe Cannon:

Absolutely. The 27 stores are checked because that's one of the first misconceptions from the business community is they think that we are giving our stores a pass. So that's why we always make sure that we check every one of our stores yearly. And if there's a violation, that employee is served and is issued a summons by the police officers.

Jocelyn Rawat:

So, what does an underage compliance check look like to an outsider? So if I were a customer shopping at a beer and wine store, or if I were dining at a restaurant, what would I see?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

You really wouldn't see anything. It wouldn't look out of the ordinary. The underage volunteers that go walk into the establishment, they'll either sit down at the bar or, as Joe mentioned, maybe sit down at a table if it's a restaurant to order dinner, or you know, as if they were going to order dinner. They place their order, whether it's at the bar or the table. And if they are served, then they let the inspector know, who then lets us know as law enforcement. And I have one officer that's assigned to the compliance check program, and she takes care of all these. And she'll go in and take, we take the server or bartender or whatever, whoever provided the alcohol, take them aside, out of the view, respect for the business and respect for their livelihood, take them, explain to them what happened, what's going on, that they this person was an underage uh individual that they sold to, they're gonna be issued a citation. ABS does their side, we do our side with the criminal citation, and then it's pretty much done. We can be in and out in five to ten minutes.

Jocelyn Rawat:

So does the community ever get involved? Do you ever get parents or other members of the community who think that there's a problem business and they give you tips and say, hey, somebody's selling to people under 21?

Joe Cannon:

So we receive complaints on a regular basis in reference to the underage alcohol possession or consumption of alcohol. And the compliance check program is probably the easiest way to address those complaints. Because prior to the compliance check program even being formulated, you may have a police officer or ABC inspector that'll have to sit outside and conduct an observation. That can be two and three and four hours just watching people going in and coming out. If they appear to be under the age of 21, approach and verify how old they are. So this compliance check program, it's it's cut out a lot of time with the whole observation piece to where you can set up 15 to 25 checks on any given night. And if there's no sale, you know, it's normally normally going to be a very smooth process. If a sale takes place, it's already been described by Pat exactly how it would be handled. We try not to handle anything out in the general public. We take that employee off to the side, we advise the licensee of what's going on. Normally it's both happening at the same time while the police officer is addressing the licensee's employee, you know, obtaining the appropriate information, issuing the summons. We're normally talking to the licensee at the same time to let them know there's been administrative violation charges against you. We verify the employee, make sure they have their employee records on file. If the employee doesn't have an ID. So we do, you know, take it a step further as we're talking to the licensee to make sure they are a legitimate employee of the licensed business as well.

Jocelyn Rawat:

So it sounds like a safer approach too.

Joe Cannon:

Absolutely. With everyone being in plain clothes, it makes it a lot easier. You know, nobody is going in with uniforms and it makes the whole process a smoother transition.

Jocelyn Rawat:

So, Joe, let me stick with you. I have one more question for you. Is it fair to say that the vast majority of businesses are are successful with their underage compliance checks?

Joe Cannon:

I would definitely say yes, because you know, through the training that ABS has put in place over the years, the required questions that the licensee have to go through doing the Board of Licensed Commissioners application process, it's made that whole process a lot easier and smoother. So the licensees understand and they're doing what they're supposed to do. Checking IDs, verifying how old they are, if they have any questions, ask them how old are you? You know, things like that. It's all parts you know, part of the trait to help licensees to make sure compliance is in place.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay. Most most are passing, but I assume that that some do fail their compliance check. So what happens if they do fail the compliance check?

Joe Cannon:

Okay. So just like we previously mentioned uh employee is charged criminally, the licensee is charged administratively. When we file the administrative paperwork, they would probably be issued one of two things. We always start with like an offer and compromise to where they may receive a notice of hearing of the hearing violation where they may be offered the opportunity to pay a thousand dollar fine in lieu of attending an administrative hearing. It's almost like this is your first offense. You know what the minimum fine is, it's gonna be a thousand dollars. It's almost like plea plea guilty when you go to court. But there are opportunities and there's if the licensee want to be heard, they can request an administrative hearing where they will come before the board of licensed commissioners here at ABS where they would get to offer testimony to the five commissioners, and of course, the proceeding would go through and then the issuance of the findings can be made after that.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, so Sergeant, there's a there's a criminal penalty involved too, right? And that's for the person who makes the sale?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

Correct. So ultimately there is a fine and that a maximum fine, just like any penalty, if you get a speeding ticket, it could be up to $500. There is a maximum fine and a maximum penalty associated with the criminal citation. But much like ABS's role, the court system's role, once it gets out of Montgomery County police's hands and it gets to the state's attorney and it gets to the district court of Maryland, it's education. Um, something that we really stress when we go in and do these checks, especially with owners or license, the actual license holder who may be really upset at their employee or whatever it may be that and they may want to take some action against them. We we stress that that's not the best thing to do. It's a learning opportunity. You're gonna get learning opportunities and education opportunities through ABS to train their people better, to train the licensee better. And then from the criminal side at court, ultimately it's gonna be a training class, an education class. And as long as they complete that, assuming it's not their second, third, fourth, fifth offense, um, which could and has happened in the past, but assuming it's their first offense, they're gonna have to take an alcohol awareness class, and then that case ultimately will be dropped. It'll come off of their record and there won't be a criminal charge associated uh with them on their record.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay. So Sergeant, let me continue with you. I've heard many people say it's no big deal, or I drank alcohol when I was young and I'm fine. Why is it a big deal and why are both of these departments taking it so seriously?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

I think the biggest reason that we take it so seriously is if you look back to what my unit and and my primary role is in DUI enforcement, and not only whether it's alcohol or drug driving enforcement, when any individual, but especially underage individuals and younger individuals go out and consume alcohol or consume drugs and that kind of thing and party, they get in cars. And when someone that, one, doesn't have a lot of driving experience gets behind the wheel, and then two, adds in that other factor of an impairing substance, specifically alcohol, where it's a recipe for disaster. And we've seen that in the past in many crashes within the county. And and thank God we've, I hesitate to say this because you never want to jinx it, but we've been very lucky recently that we haven't had those crashes involving um minors or underage individuals coming from these establishments um or even parties where they might have obtained alcohol from a another, from a business or a a licensed store or whatever it may be. So it's really trying to cut down on these crashes, cut down on these alcohol-related fatalities, and then just keep everyone safe. I mean, if you look at the statistics for admissions to hospitals of people that are under 21 for an alcohol-related issue, and when we say that, we mean like whether it's a slip trip or a fall, whether it's a car crash, whether it's alcohol poisoning. The average BAC, and it's an older study, but from suburban hospital for those that are under 18 is like over a 2.4 for the average BAC for someone that's admitted that's under 18. And then the 18 to 21 range is like a 1.8, and then it's over 21, it's like a 1.4. So I mean, those those BACs are crazy high, and we're trying to avoid those injuries, other issues to people, and then certainly the uh the deaths and and traffic crashes and arrests from impaired driving and things like that.

Joe Cannon:

I mean, just like Pat said, people don't take into consideration the slips, trips, and falls, which are major when they consume alcohol falling down stairs that can result in so many other things. Uh, you take into consideration the brain is still being developed, how alcohol, you know, affects the brain, um, how they're doing in school, you know, normally there's studies that show if they're consuming alcohol at a younger age, they're more likely to do poorly in school, you know, and it it it impacts their grades in ways that they just never think about, you know, from from hanging out with friends. They don't understand the behind-the-scenes impact of those issues.

Jocelyn Rawat:

In our last episode of Spirited Discussions, we talked about what a control model is for alcohol distribution and how that system works in Montgomery County. Is this program specific to Montgomery County?

Joe Cannon:

No, it's not. Just like I said before, it's it's a program to where 39 jurisdictions in states have put in place some type of protocol to address the compliance checks on a national level.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, so the young people that you have working in this program, you're calling them underage volunteers, and and they're a critical uh part uh of making this program work. But I think that's probably a bit of a misnomer because it's a paid job, right?

Joe Cannon:

Yes, it is.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, and and what qualifications do you need and how do you apply?

Joe Cannon:

So we we try and hire, again, one of the biggest things I always like to drive home. We want them to look their age. So we're trying to hire young, young, younger, I hate to use the term kids, but younger adults between the age of 18 and 20. We want them to look their age. I didn't mention it earlier, but they're supposed to have a state of Maryland driver's license or ID card that's gonna be vertical format that's gonna say under 18, under 21 until specifically one of the training things that we provide to our licensees. We want them to be involved in the community, be involved with the schools, be involved with organizations. So we try and find out what else do you do other than take classes? What programs are you involved in in school? You know, are you involved in any leadership roles or you're an athlete? So we kind of try and drill down to find out a little bit more about those uh underage volunteers. And the the biggest thing is um their personality in terms of how do you interact with people, how do you interact with others? Because that's that's paramount to being able to walk into a business by yourself, you know, showing confidence and that you can you can do the job.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, so it's an interesting opportunity for young people. And the job is through Alcohol Beverage Services, right?

Joe Cannon:

Correct. You would be an employee of Alcohol Beverage Services. But the police department also has ways for young people to learn about careers in law enforcement. Isn't that right?

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

Yeah, absolutely. We have our Explorers program, which is kind of like the lowest, youngest level, deals more with those that may be in high school and gives them an overview to law enforcement. They get time up at the police academy working with the instructors at the academy who are in charge of that explorers program and kind of getting that first glimpse into what law enforcement really is. Uh, you know, they have a an explorer's uniform. They come out when we talk about things, they come out with us on checkpoints, they may come out with um with my team and do ride-alongs and things like that. And then we have the cadet program as well, which is more geared towards those college-age kids, individuals, kids. I keep saying, you know, kind of say, but those those individuals who are really potentially on the cusp of actually applying to the police department to be a police officer. So that'll give them more involvement in different bureaus within the department, different units within the department. They may bounce around from an investigative unit to to the traffic division, to the academy, to our special operations. They'll get an actual in-depth kind of overview of a lot of different parts of the department. And then the next step is really becoming a police officer. So all those are those opportunities are stuff that we really encourage people to apply for and take a look on our recruitment website and our website to uh kind of stay involved and get involved.

Jocelyn Rawat:

Okay, thank you, Sergeant Patrick Kepp and also Joe Cannon for participating in today's spirited discussion.

Sgt. Patrick Kepp:

Thanks, Jocelyn. Thank you.

Jocelyn Rawat:

If there's a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, email us at abs.spirited discussions@ Montgomery CountyMD.gov. Thank you for listening.

Announcer:

Alcohol Beverage Services is the alcohol wholesaler of beer, wine, and spirits for Montgomery County. And it operates neighborhood retail stores. ABS also manages alcohol licensing, enforcement, and education for more than 1,000 businesses. Its profits are used to pay for resident services that otherwise would be funded by county tax dollars.