How to THINK About AI Before It Thinks for You (Older kids, parents, & teachers)

AI sounds smart. But that doesn’t mean it’s right. And it definitely doesn’t mean it should be doing your thinking for you.

This week, Dhani Ramadhani joins the show. She’s a mom, a Harvard grad, a GovTech expert, and the creator of aiPTO, a resource built to give families real language for talking about AI at the dinner table. 

Dhani shares the THINK framework, five letters that put YOU in charge when you’re using AI. 

WHAT WE COVER

• The THINK framework: Take time before you believe, How does it work, Intention, Never share private info, Keep your brain in charge
• aiPTO: what it stands for (AI, Parent, Tech, Opportunity) and how families can  leverage their resources 
• Deepfakes: what they are, why they’re hitting schools, and the Take It Down Act
• AI bias: how training data shapes what AI says and who it serves
• Privacy: why your selfie might be training an AI model right now
•  Agency: why YOU matter more in this world than you realize

FOR KIDS: TRY THIS AFTER THE EPISODE

• Pick one thing in your life that bugs you (meal planning, homework, organizing). Try using AI to help, but run it through the THINK framework first.
• Ask yourself: am I using AI to learn or to skip the hard part? No judgment, just be honest about it.
• Audit your screen time. Is the algorithm pushing you toward something, or are you choosing it?

RESOURCES & LINKS

Her children's book: The Power of Pondering: Empowering Kids to Think for Themselves in the Age of AI

aiPTO (aiparenttech.com)

The THINK Framework on aiPTO

AI Everywhere book (feat. Dhani’s chapter)

Take It Down (NCMEC) — deepfake removal tool

Dhani on Instagram: @aiPTO365

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Donna

Amber Ivey 0:30

Hey kids, welcome back to the AI for kids comedy. A lot of adults are kind of freaking out about AI, but today's guest, she decided to actually do something about it. Dhani Ramadhani is a mom of two and Harvard Grad, a tech expert, and she built a whole website called AI PTL to help families figure out AI together. She also just wrote a chapter in a book called AI Everywhere about what it's like to raise kids right now, which I cannot imagine. I am honestly but not a parent. So Dhani, welcome to the show.

This Or That Game

Dhani Ramadhani 1:02

Thank you for really polite and interesting time to be a parent and a child on the first generation, I'd say, to have gone through this together.

Amber Ivey 1:13

That is so real. A lot of perks are coming up right now. But before we get started, I would love to jump into a game of this or that. I ask that you only say the answer. Do not give any explanations. It's going to be hard, but are you ready?

Dhani Ramadhani 1:27

I'll try my pet.

Amber Ivey 1:29

Alright, robot or pet? Okay, rules or creativity. Creativity. AI that helps you learn or AI that just does the work for you.

Dhani Ramadhani 1:42

Helps you learn every time.

Amber Ivey 1:45

Every time I love that. Talk to a chat bot or talk to a parent about technology.

Dhani Ramadhani 1:50

Talk to a parent.

Amber Ivey 1:52

Make something or fix something.

Dhani Ramadhani 1:55

Can I say both?

Amber Ivey 1:57

Sure. You didn't sound until this point. I get you get a chance to say both. And last but not least, books or TikTok.

Dhani Ramadhani 2:07

Books 100%.

Amber Ivey 2:09

I love that. There's also book talk kids in case you're into both. But okay, I know this is going to be a great conversation, Dahani. Um let's just get into it. So you went from working at a huge consulting firm and inside government, building a parenting app or parenting tool for AI. What happened? Like, where did this come from? How did you get there?

The Moment AI Hit Home

Dhani Ramadhani 2:32

As a mom, like honestly, start when I become a mom and everything shifted, right? Like I work in uh leave and breathe technology at work. But when I come home, uh I feel unprepared to have these just the actual conversations around AI with my family, my own kids. Um it started when last year I was using one of the AI tools to plan our summer vacation. And my daughter, you know, a curious kid, just hover around my phone and ask, Mommy, what's Gemini? Who are you texting? And I was like, Oh, oh, it's it's an AI. Didn't really like think through that, of course. It just comes out of a mom's brain. And then she's like, What's AI? And I'm like, it's kind of like a robot. And then that's like the best answer I could provide at that moment. And I realized, oh my gosh, that was not a good answer. She moved on the with a like after that, and then but I truly felt like this is not how I envisioned my first conversation around AI with my kid. And she's like at that point was still in kindergarten, so I was like, I can't explain the technology set. I need an actual kids-friendly language to explain to my kids, and it should come naturally. So if I myself, who feels like I use this technology quite often and had a good feel on how to build with these technology, can't explain it to my own child, the gap is real. And and I I need to do something about it. And actually, I went down a rabbit hole of finding resources, not around AI skills, okay, like around conversation, around language that parents can use in a dinner table. And I really couldn't find a lot. It's either the fear-mongering, like AI is dangerous, blah blah blah, or like AI, you gotta learn it now, or you're gonna like, you know, uh not be part of the future. So it's also like this hype in fear-mongering. And I feel like parents need to have something that is more in between. And my husband pointed out to me, like, if you can't find anything, good what like why can't you just start it yourself? And I was like, you know what, maybe I should. So that's the long story short of why I started.

Amber Ivey 4:39

I love that. And for parents who are listening, as your kids are listening to this, the honey has a background in this and also struggles. So you're not alone. And the honey, when your own kids started running into AI, and I know you mentioned the story of like your daughter looking over your shoulder and your husband thinking and helping you think through actually building something. What was that specific moment where you were like, all right, I need to build something new for this? Was it that you couldn't find any resources out there, or was there another moment?

Dhani Ramadhani 5:08

Yeah, I think it was a good like week or two, right? Just trying to find resources and being able to find like actual conversations and script that that you can use immediately. And I I I just couldn't find it. It's either like a bunch of reports that is provided by research organizations or companies trying to promote their trainings, or and there's a lot of you know, training for parents or also training for teachers and kids. But again, it's like they're trying to tell you how to use AI. And I think the idea should be how you should talk about it, how you should think about it. Um, what is right for your family? And we don't really talk about that piece as much. It's really oftentimes very prescriptive.

Why Parents Need Better Scripts

Amber Ivey 5:52

100%. Even right now, like everyone, to your point, learning about this stuff is reading research papers from OpenAI or these other big tech companies, but there's not a place that's like translating this for families and kids. And I want to get into what you actually built because I want kids and parents and families to be able to use this stuff. Can you explain AI PTO to a kid? Imagine I'm in middle school and just found your website. What is it and why should I care?

Dhani Ramadhani 6:19

Yeah, so the idea is you know how you have a PTO at your school.

Amber Ivey 6:24

I love that name.

Dhani Ramadhani 6:25

The way I think about it, AI PTO stands for parent, tech, and opportunity because I think there is an opportunity out there that we can think about. It doesn't mean you always have to use AI, but it means understanding it, being able to shape it, uh and being able to be aware and make choices. And I'm really big on agency. And that's why I think it's about resources where you can make your own choices.

Amber Ivey 6:48

And you use the word think, and I know you also created something called the think framework. Can you walk us through it right now? Pretend like we're a family at dinner, trying think framework for the first time. Can you provide like a real example step by step of how I would work through that at my dinner table?

What AI PTO Means

The THINK Framework Step By Step

Dhani Ramadhani 7:06

I love that. So it's there's a lot of framework out there. I try to simplify it with uh think and talk. So think here is take time before you believe, right? So whenever you want to start using a tool to find an answer or simply helping you with homework or planning like myself, planning a trip. You take time before you believe. You want to understand that AI can sound very confident, they're trained to do so, they're very good at language, but can do that while being completely wrong or half wrong or part some parts is wrong. So always try to take time before you believe completely. And H is how? How does it work? So you need to get curious, and how do they get to that answer, right? So first take time before you believe, and then how? How did they get to this answer? Do you think they have all the facts? What might be missing when they answer? You know, what is they have a history project, they give you an answer. Mesopotamia was last seen in whatever year, and then you're like, How did you get to this answer? Do they provide you sources? They do walk through their um thought process uh in tools and how they go about this, and then intention. I think it's really important when you understand how it works, then you can go back. Why are you using AI right now specifically? Because it will then define how you're going to use that information. Are you trying to learn? Are you trying to create? Or uh, you know, sometimes you're just using AI to skip the hard part. No shame, um, because sometimes, you know, you just want to get things fast, but be aware of your own intention of using it. And then N is never share secrets or import information. The way I think about this is when you're asking something to I, you don't go, hey, find me the best path for our family to uh look at the best schools in your neighborhood. You don't go say, My family of four living in this neighborhood, you know, you don't provide your personal information. You can shape your question in a way that is objective and doesn't provide that either the question is you. Something I tried when I ask questions or use uh I try to help it role play. Imagine you are something, right? And that you are of this age, and then uh try to figure out this path, but you don't tell that it's you, you don't say that what's your name, you don't actually say your age. You provide a persona to them, like what you want them to think through as, and you can even make it think as if it's not you, right? You can let's say you're trying to figure out a way to uh develop this best recipe that you want to give for your favorite person's birthday, and then you say, Hey, imagine you are the chef of a really famous cooking school, and then you're trying to find a recipe that could be done by someone with little to no experience in cooking, right? It changes the way it's not, it doesn't provide them the information about yourself. And then last but not least is keep your brain in charge. Why? Um, I think it's hard sometimes when you use AI tools, especially beginning to use it, you can get dependent on it. So you need to ensure that you keep yourself, you keep your brain at the driver's seat. Understand. So let's say they give you an answer, you don't have to take it. They're whatever they provide, it's not prescriptive, it's not always right. You can choose and evaluate their answer and also understand if I were a parent, if they give if an AI give me an answer, I try to go back and say, How would I say this in my own words? That keeps me in charge. Because then if they say, like the recipe example, right? And I was like, Oh, okay, they tell me to create a carrot cake, and then like, okay, how would I do this? Maybe I don't really like carrots and at all. I or I know that I don't have carrots in at home right now and I need to make this tomorrow. So I I'm trying to rethink how would I do this myself? It would were me, you know. So you know how like how would Beyonce do it? Then you're like, how would I do it? Give it your name. How would how would Dhani do it? That's how you can keep yourself in charge. Again, that's think, take time before you believe. H is how, understand how we get to that point. I's intention, ensure that you have a clear purpose and when you use it, and never share anything, any private information. And K, keep your brain yourself in charge.

Amber Ivey 11:33

I love that. And the fact that you reference my all-time favorite part as Beyonce makes it even that much better. But no, seriously, um, I love the think framework, and even for myself, one of the things I don't think about as much as I should, especially when it comes to kids, is they should also like do the role playing. Like most prompts should have a role identified, but I didn't think about that to help kids also not share personal information. I think that's like brilliant in the way that you've set that up. And parents will make sure to share all of this in the show notes. So if someone wanted to try an activity or thing on AIPTO this week, what's the first thing you would tell them to do?

Dhani Ramadhani 12:39

I think they should try to find something that is within their life first. Like, don't don't try something fancy. Don't do um some you like create an app to solve for well like hunger. Like that's that's a bit, you know, hard. You need to find something that what is the friction point in your life, or maybe what's your biggest technology use? I would recommend either of those two approach. Um, my friction point was I hate cooking. That's why I like recipes, like meal planning, I hate it. That's when how can I use these tools to help me the most? If you use technology the most, watch something, maybe figure out a way to audit yourself and like why are you watching certain things? Is it the algorithm pushing you to do that? Is it because you actually like it? Being able to sort of, I don't know if kids know the word, but metacognition, like being able to think about how you think is really key, and it's something I'm trying to practice. And that really starts from those two simple things like what is your friction point? What's hard for you? And then what do you use the most?

Amber Ivey 13:44

I love that. I often, when I'm talking to adults about this, I say the same thing as like, what is the thing that's causing you the most pain or something that's quick that if you fix, it would it would make your life happier. Focus on that first. And I love what you're saying there. So it is time for tech trivia. Are you ready? You have to answer very fast, meaning either a one-word answer or a one-sentence answer, depending on how long it is. And remember to keep it in the mindset of how you would say it for a fifth grader. Are you ready? I know a lot of pressure there.

Dhani Ramadhani 14:14

I yes, let's try.

Amber Ivey 14:17

All right, so true or false, AI always gets the right answer.

Dhani Ramadhani 14:21

False. They can sound very confident and be completely wrong.

Amber Ivey 14:25

1000%. What's a deep fake?

Dhani Ramadhani 14:29

A deep fake is when a tool can create a fake video or image of anything, truly, and make it look like they are doing or have done or said something that they've never actually did.

Amber Ivey 14:43

And kids, that's so relevant right now. And parents, we've been talking about this in a newsletter, so make sure you haven't checked it out. Air Africans Weekly, we talk about a lot about deepfakes and what's happening across the world right now. Now, what does AI bias mean?

Start With Real Life Friction

Dhani Ramadhani 14:58

Ooh, um, that means AI carries similar preferences around information or even decisions that whoever the creators is or the base of their information that they're trained on. So let's say if they're trained on American data, then we'll be biased on how Americans think or what American data looks like. If they're trained in Chinese data, then we'll be biased on how the Chinese data think or prefer and whatnot. So it's really interesting. It amplifies whatever its input. So really important to understand again the how in the think framework. Like, how do they get to this? Are they referring to the right websites when they sources? Are they referring to like a fake-ish website? Because you can, there is a thing, you know, in websites before. Um, now I feel old, like SEOs. Uh, now they have similar tools like that for websites to get found or get referred by AI sources. Like it's pretty crazy. So it doesn't mean whatever they put as a resource, it's the best. It just means they have the highest ranking on how AI finds sources.

Amber Ivey 16:10

That's something that's so sad right now. It's a lot of people don't realize that there's ways for people to influence how their websites get to the top, especially in AI search. So I'm glad you called that out. Last quick question, and then I want to dig into deepfakes a little bit more. True or false, everything you type into AI is private.

Tech Trivia On Safety And Bias

Dhani Ramadhani 16:30

Uh-uh. Um, so as much as much as they say it is, please, please don't do not say let's say, let's say they they do keep it private, right? They store it, but in in a in some echo chamber, it's so easy to hack information out. Uh the amount of time I'd say if you were a parent or soon if you have your own email, like it means it's out there somewhere. Somebody have a your email address. Have you ever received a spam email? That means your information is out there. To to believe that uh a company can just like be so secure and not face any hacks is just too naive. Um, so really do not share. And even if let's say yes, they're perfect, uh, they can store it. Again, they will use your information to train and improve your model. They're not gonna share your face, like you take a picture, and then it's they make a fun filter, right? Like now I'm a cute dog and have been able to change my sound a certain way. Sure, they're not sharing your picture, quote unquote, to other people, but they could use your image to create new images, like an AI avatar, that just look like you, and you can figure out how, and that's because of that. Like the more picture you send them, they use it to improve models, and their model then can be used to generate something new. And their defense, quote unquote, this is not you, this is a compilation of images then that creates an aggregate or whatever type it is, profile, to their new avatar.

Amber Ivey 18:11

That is wild. So that's interesting to me for a lot of different reasons because I, as a kid, may just want the puppy dog ears on my face, not realizing that there's an AI that's um learning from me, right? And learning about my face and putting it into the training data. So when we talk about deepfakes, if a kid found out that someone made a fake video of them using AI, what do they actually do? This is in the news so much right now. Kids, I've seen articles for kids as young as seven years old creating deep fakes and sharing them. What should a kid do if that's happened to them? How do they navigate this?

Deepfakes And The Take It Down Tool

Dhani Ramadhani 18:45

Yeah, so thankfully there is an initiative called Take It Down. So, what Take It Down does, it's run by NCMEC. So that is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. They can help you, anybody actually, if you want to help your friend, like it the way it works is you upload your picture. It doesn't actually take your picture, it creates a digital fingerprint of your image that can be detected, sort of like what features and whatnot. And then that will be sent to the social media companies or the companies participating in Take It Down Act, and those companies will take it down. So it is by law, it is an act, uh, a federal act. So please, please, if that happens, go to this website, follow it, and there's help desk there as well. So if you don't know how to do it, do not feel scared, ask your parents as well. Nobody will shame you. This is truly such a horrific use of technology. So you're not alone.

Amber Ivey 19:47

Thank you for saying that because a lot of kids, I've read stories about kids feeling like they have to move to different schools and things like that. And I'm so glad that that law passed so that you all can take it down. So, kids, make sure you write down that website. If this has happened to you or your friend, like Dhani was saying, make sure you do that because we want to make sure you all are safe. And Dhani, for kids listening right now, I want to dream a little. They're in middle school or whatever grade they're in right now, and they're ready to take on this AI world. What's one thing you want them to know that most adults may not think to tell them?

Dhani Ramadhani 20:20

Well, it's something I say to my child is you matter more in this world than you realize. You have agency, you can choose to shape it. When they say it's doom and gloom, or it's one way or another, don't take it to heart. You know, people say they can predict the future. I can't say how many people have been wrong about that, but one thing is true. We all matter, you matter. So be confident about your own capability, your own thought, your own experiences. It is a unique experience. Your view is unique. You need to, you can and should have a seat at the table of your own future.

Amber Ivey 20:59

I absolutely love that. And I like to always leave this last question with everyone on the show. Anything you may have wanted to state today or say today that you didn't get a chance to say, feel free to spend time now talking through it.

Agency Hope And Final Challenge

Dhani Ramadhani 21:11

Okay, I'm a humanist, so I believe that whatever the future it is, we all have a responsibility to shape it, especially around AI. Be take charge with your own future. Don't feel hopeless, don't feel apathy. Find what you're passionate about. And it doesn't have to be about AI, but it's important that you understand how it impacts your life. So my key point is start being aware of the technology around you. In the future, maybe they're not gonna call it AI or whatever it is. Just be aware of that and ensure that you are you have a choice. Um, when there's things that put in within your school that's a default, you don't actually have to accept that. You can advocate for yourself, uh, for parents as well. Like advocate for your child what's right for them if they're having too much screen time at school or you think they're not giving kids more training around literacy, around AI, push for it. There's something that all of us can do if we're doing it together.

Amber Ivey 22:13

I absolutely love that. And if there's one thing you would want a listener to do after this episode ends, what is it? We will, of course, make sure they have access to aiparentech.com and your AI Everywhere book in the show notes and share all those resources. But what should I do after this episode ends?

Dhani Ramadhani 22:32

I think you should start feeling more hopeful and think about how you would like the future of AI to be. And that should help you figure out how your relationship with AI should be. Because oftentimes I realize that it's a default Gemini answer question. Chat GPT creates this, and it's almost like a default, and you don't think about it anymore. So take a step back. And if you were not forced to use anything, we're not told to do anything, how would you like your relationship with this technology or technology in general should be? And um write it down and figure out ways to do that. For myself, is having a more real relationship at home and being able to call out our technology use explicitly. So it's not that we are completely removing technology in our house, but we want technology use to be explicit, we want technology use to be intentional, and with intentional use, you'll find a lot more impact because technology should be a tool for you. So you should be in charge of how it's being used.

Amber Ivey 23:44

And that's such a great way to wrap the show. Kids, I hope you heard loudly and clearly from Dhani. This is all in you all's hands. Dhani, thank you so much for spending time with us today. Kids, make sure you stay curious, keep the critical thinking. Dhani has given you a think method to help you do that when you are working with AI. And we will see you in a couple weeks. Thanks, Dhani. Bye-bye. Bye, thank you. Thank you for joining us as we explore the fascinating world of artificial intelligence. Don't keep this adventure to yourself. Download it, share it with your friends, and let everyone else in on the fun. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast or on YouTube. See you next time on AI for kids.