The Sea Squirt Effect: Tech Tales of Transition

Edoardo Serra: Open Your Heart for Possibilities

• Alla Shashkina • Season 1 • Episode 1

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What if pursuing your childhood passion could unlock a career filled with innovation and leadership? On this episode of the Sea Squirt Effect podcast, we're joined by my friend and former colleague, Edoardo Serra, also known as Edo, who recounts his journey from a tech-obsessed kid in Torino, Italy, to an accomplished professional in electronic and computer engineering. Edo’s story is a tech tale of curiosity and relentless learning, marking the milestones that led him from tinkering with early computers to pursuing higher education in tech.

Edo shares the challenges and triumphs faced during his nearly decade-long career in corporate tech. He offers insightful reflections on transitioning from an individual contributor to a manager, revealing the learning curves and validation felt during this shift. Our discussion dives into the pivotal decisions, such as leaving a secure job in big tech. Edo candidly discusses the factors and emotions that led him to embrace new opportunities, making this segment an enriching listen for anyone navigating similar crossroads in their careers.

And beyond professional milestones, we explore broader themes of personal growth, freedom, and happiness. Edo opens up about the joy of acquiring new skills, the courage to seize new opportunities, and the importance of internal fulfillment. From the thrill of spontaneous travel to the quest for financial stability, this episode underscores the balance between external freedom and inner peace. By sharing personal anecdotes and reflections on life’s unpredictability, Edo provides a compelling narrative that speaks to the essence of happiness through choices and personal growth. Join us for an episode filled with insights, inspiration, and the true meaning of living a fulfilled life.

You can reach out to Edo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eserra/

There is a wealth of information available and only so much time in the day. Therefore, I truly appreciate you spending some of your valuable time listening to this podcast. Your feedback is very important so please reach out to me on LinkedIn or over email: alla@evolvexlabs.com.

You can support us by leaving a review for this podcast, recommending it to a friend or sharing your favorite takeaways by tagging us on IG @theseasquirteffect. Doing so will help us reach more listeners like you!

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Follow me on IG: @evolvewithalla

Music credits & copyright by "Odin v olen'yem parke" ("Один В Оленьем Парке").

Speaker 1:

Hi there and welcome to the very first episode of the very first season of the Sea Squirt Effect podcast, and I'm super excited today to have my friend and my former colleague, Eduardo Serra I will be calling him Edo to this first episode. And before we start, a million-dollar question what makes you feel alive at all?

Speaker 2:

That's a very good question, alla, and I did some type work actually on this question and I didn't have the answer. So I went around and I asked people what do you, what do you think it makes me feel alive? Because I was so lost. There's like a lot of things that make me feel alive, and then I one thing that I heard that was consistent and I think that I that I share. What, uh, that I shared is is that, uh, learning new things and uh, uh, moving and feeling that I'm improving and learning new things is what makes me feel like yeah, amazing.

Speaker 1:

No wonder you are the first guest on this podcast, because that's exactly what it is about growth and learning new things. So, um, no surprise and I love your research approach to this question and you went outwards and asked people around what people think makes you most alive and, honestly, I thought you're going to answer differently, but maybe that will unfold throughout the episode. We'll see. Throughout the episode we'll see um anyway. So edo and I, we are good friends and we work together. Um moved together, actually, from paris to silicon valley back in 2012 to join one of the biggest tech companies in silicon valley and we've been pretty much colleagues for a very long time. And, edo, why don't you go ahead and kind of give us an idea of who you are? How did you get where you are, where you got today? Where are you from? What excites you? How did you get into tech specifically?

Speaker 2:

So I got into tech specifically, so I got into tech. Let's say that I found myself into tech. I was born in Italy and at some point the story goes. The story that I was told because I have no memory back then is that I showed a propension towards technology and I was the one that was operating all everything that had a little bit of tech in the house that probably includes a washing machine. And so I was. I joked to my friend saying that I was assigned engineer at birth. That's a little bit what happened, and maybe that made it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker 2:

I remember liking it. I remember having my first computer and learning basic at the age of four and to a certain extent, being gently pushed and oriented in that direction. I remember enjoying that. I remember asking my parents to learn more, asking my parents to get my first computer when I was a kid and going through school being like the little nerd. That going through school being like the little nerd that was really, that always knew a little bit about computer and was fascinated by scientific topic in general.

Speaker 1:

And then I wonder Sorry to interrupt the first question. So if you remember your first interaction with the computer, how did that feel?

Speaker 2:

Let's start with the computer. How did that feel? The first computer? Just for context, it was a one-liner LED screen with a basic interpreter. You could enter one line at a time and then run the program and of course the input and output was very limited.

Speaker 2:

At the very beginning I was following the instructions that were coming and didn't really make a lot of sense. But I remember having fun in following the instruction and then, after a lot of effort, running the program and seeing the program and doing what it was supposed to do. And I was fascinated by and remember I was four years old so I had no idea what was behind it. I had no idea how this could happen, how this machine could think, and so little by little I started making changes and see how that was affecting how I was teaching the machine and I was thinking. And so little by little I started making changes and see how that was affecting how I was teaching the machine and it was fascinating. That was like I was really teaching a piece of a weird-looking piece of hardware how to think.

Speaker 1:

So you felt fascinated and you want to do more, I guess. So from there, what happened next?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So fast forward when that decision that we are facing, it like okay what? You get a point in time that you need to decide what to do for the rest of your life and back then that's from four years old eduardo to what uh, 17, 16 years old.

Speaker 2:

Yeah out of high school and kind of it kind of really feels and uh, we'll talk about that a little bit later, but it seems that this is like the serious decision of your life, the most important decision, where you decide what your identity is and your family identifies with a specific profession and at that point you have to pick your way and decide. And then am I identifying as a doctor or as an engineer? And at that point the choice unfolded over the course of my childhood, and so I was an engineer. I was set to go into the engineering school of my hometown, torino, which happened to be a good school, the best, I guess. Best in Italy, so to say. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

It happened to be three blocks from where my parents live, so the choice was made.

Speaker 1:

Have you thought about studying abroad? Have you had? That thought cross your mind ever.

Speaker 2:

I developed that thought slightly later. The thought I had was that, in fact, that was an opportunity for me to attend one of the best engineering schools in Europe. That was three blocks away from where I used to live, and even if I was somehow fascinated, I thought it would have been something that would have happened later and for the time being, that was the best option for me.

Speaker 1:

All right. So you got into studying computer science, or what did you study?

Speaker 2:

That was technically electronic engineering. Okay, all right that was the starting point, and then it became computer engineering throughout the course of the studies.

Speaker 1:

So what was the highlight of your study? How did you feel towards the end of the studies? So what was the highlight of your study? How did you feel towards the end of it? Where did you see yourself evolving as someone who can teach hardware how to understand human intention?

Speaker 2:

I have to admit that the study that I did for a while to the studying years of my life were not necessarily very relevant in hindsight. That's why I'm saying that that would seem to be like a permanent decision and ended up being like a non-permanent decision. I what actually shaped me the most is that I decided to start my company while I was, while I was studying, and had something like to do with computers and I actually didn't really know what to do, but I knew that I could do something. So I started doing the website of the bakery next door. And then there was my mom's friend who had a travel agency and so sure, let's do a website. And then I learned how to use a database and then I thought it was a cool thing and then I why did you use html and all that stuff?

Speaker 1:

css, the old thing all of the above.

Speaker 2:

So people that are today, my best friends, were really close to me in building that company and I can think of two friends that were really involved. One was my co-founder and one other was really helping me. And that's what I got the most from my study year, not necessarily from the academics that I so from there, how did it end up in the US?

Speaker 2:

Yeah well, completely by chance, and in fact I didn't want to get to, they didn't want to go to the US not only once, but twice. I tried to escape it twice.

Speaker 1:

Sounds familiar, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So the first time I tried to escape. So I had a company and at some point the opportunity presented itself. So, completely by chance, I got voice from someone who was on the board of advisor of our startup, who talked to michael panger, who talked to me, uh, saying that they someone in the silicon valley working at a big silicon valley needed an engineer who spoke native Italian to work on a project that no one had idea what it was, but this person had to be Italian. And back then I had exited my company and I was actually done with tech in my mind. My mind was set to continue my academic training.

Speaker 1:

So you want to continue your education at the university to get deeper into what mathematics or like what was the-?

Speaker 2:

I was looking for. I was like looking for. I was looking for an MBA, so that was my goal. And I had done engineering, I had done tech. Now I need to learn business and go back doing more companies.

Speaker 2:

And I'm going to try another startup, and so I had. I was on a small sabbatical, applying for the MBAs that I wanted to get into, in Sead in case it was my first choice. And one day I I still decided to give this thing a chance, because why not? But in reality I was just I was not necessarily willing to move to the US or to work for any big tech. But then things happened really fast. I got into the interview process until one day I got an offer that I could, that I had like that. I had a few hours to think about, that. I had a few hours to think about. It just happened that the MBA I wanted to get into gave me my admission letter one week after I had accepted the offer. So big sliding door moment. If things had happened in the reverse order, I don't know what I would have done. Probably I would be in a completely different place. Yeah, and I started.

Speaker 1:

for the longest time I was like, yeah, it was okay, I'm just gonna go give it a try, come back so bring me to that moment, maybe a second, a minute, an hour, whatever that was, when you knew you're gonna move to the silicon, to silicon valley, from Italy to join this big company to work on whatever secret project you were supposed to work like. How did that feel?

Speaker 2:

actually had no idea. I never really, I didn't really game plan that, I didn't really know what I was, what I was doing, and I named the feeling that was excited. Excitement because I was seeing something new and I was for sure I could have learned something new. There was a little bit of I was very scared. Okay, well, all these people interviewed me but do I really, can I really do this, what is really required by me? But okay, let's try also to be fair. Uh, out of those, those interviews, I was understanding 50 of what they were asking.

Speaker 2:

My english was the point that I had to think through the sentence, and when the sentence was fully formed in my head, then we had moved on to the following topic so I can relate to that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like a big room of like 50 people, right, and you got to say something because you have this opinion, right. Like you have this voice that tells you like you got to say this, and you're sitting there like trying to say, oh, yeah, okay, how do I say that? And by the time you're done with your formulation, like those people already moved on. So, yes, as a non-native speaker, I think we all can relate to that. So walk us very briefly through. You've been in your corporate tech career for how long?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's like a little less than 10 years. I didn't make it to the 10 years mark for a couple of months.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so tell us about, like the highlight of your career there. Like, how did that feel in your body? How did that feel in your heart? Like that highlight that you know the feeling where you like, on top of the world or maybe I'm just projecting whatever feeling you felt at that moment how did that feel?

Speaker 2:

I think that there have been. I think I had been too high, uh, the first was uh, so we started, we started a project and I at the very beginning um, I was the only one on on the specific project and I mean you know very, you know very well as you were working on something really parallel to that and when that was done, when that was shipped, when that was released, when the word could use it and when we could see the impact for better or for worse that the product could have, that was exciting. That was, if we name the feeling, really proud of the achievement and excited about what we had done in such a short amount of time. So that was definitely high. And then after that, growing the whole team, building the team, moving to leadership, that was another exciting moment.

Speaker 1:

Did you think for a moment whether you want to make that transition from being an individual contributor engineer to become a manager and a tech leader? What went through your head?

Speaker 2:

Oh, the answer is that for me it was something new to learn and try, and also it is something that you know at some point when you get. That was my. There were like so many new things in there. For me it was the first corporate, it was the first job that was like not my own company, that was the fact that I was considered. It was simply a progression in their career, right? And I think that if I had to look back, did I really ask myself how my work is going to look like? How do I feel? I was like, honestly, maybe I didn't, I didn't really think that much through. That seemed a path forward.

Speaker 2:

That seemed like a logical path forward and a confirmation and a sign of appreciation, of recognition for my role, and so that was. That was where I decided to go.

Speaker 1:

In hindsight, I don't know if I would make the same decision, but and so what was the highlight of that career shift when you shifted from IC to being a manager? When you shifted from IC to being a manager, what was the highlight of that transition? And if you describe that feeling, how did that feel?

Speaker 2:

Well, the most obvious change is that the impact and the delivery was exciting at the beginning. Now the impact was bigger and we could impact more people, build more products. That was the face answer. The exciting one of the exciting part is that I could really relate with people that with people in my team that had just joined. And I could really relate with people that people in my team that had just joined, and I could really see my three years younger self in the people that were on my team reliving that time and feeling the excitement that I, that I was feeling yeah, what else? And then then you know things start happening. Things start happening fast and and team grows and things go well. You keep getting confirmation, you grow, you grow in your career, you're going to all raise your responsibilities and at this point you are kind of like on a wave of it just works out yeah.

Speaker 1:

So let's get to that transition phase. How did you make that decision to make that transition from being in big tech into where you are today? Walk me through that. Maybe there is a specific event or a specific feeling or something that you felt that made you decide okay, today I'm going to make that transition.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's no today. Yeah, well, there is a moment. We keep walking the learning analogy and the trail of the learning all the way to the high of. I was learning something new every day, and it was sometimes it was like about product, sometimes it was like management, leadership, etc. And then there was a, there was a point maybe you should ask those questions every day, but then at some point, at some point, that that that whole thing changed right. So the reality is that I was not really learning, I was not really learning much and at the same, time, the moment I stopped learning.

Speaker 2:

My impact also was not like as great and as good as I wanted to be right. And then I remember that. I remember my old days as a founder of starting my own thing. I remember what was the thrill, so I as I think you would say, I opened my heart to the possibility that that could happen again. And then, once you do that, things happen.

Speaker 1:

Can you like double click on that Once you? What did you say Like once you decide things happen.

Speaker 2:

Once you open your heart to the possibility and that can happen right and for most of the time in my my corporate role, I was not even considering the idea. I had a clear goal in mind and the clear goal was delivering within the organization and and going with specific milestones and goals within the organization. And I had no and basically it was completely closed off to the idea that I could have done anything else and to a certain extent, my belonging to the organization became my identity.

Speaker 2:

I was not necessarily Eduardo, but I was the engineer in that product At some point. The moment I, you know, I just I got back. I just put back things into perspective and opened up to other opportunities than other opportunities presented themselves.

Speaker 1:

So were you scared to make that transition? Because, after being almost 10 years at such a company that pays well, gives you really good bonuses, right and all we all know, like listeners of this podcast, are probably in one of those companies where we feel so secure in terms of finances that it almost becomes our safety net. Right, like we are, we have our bonuses, we have our salaries, we have good paychecks, so you feel so safe and so secure in that area. It's not easy to leave it.

Speaker 2:

Well the answer is no, and I'll tell you why. Well, the answer I came to is no, and I had to get to the answer no in order to make that decision. But here is the thing right here is you do it once, you can probably do it again. The choice back then didn't really feel so permanent. It felt as something that, if I was missing for some reason, could have gone back to and so, within that framework, that helped making the decision. In hindsight I don't think it was a good framework, but back then, back then, that really helped my decision making.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And so you announced you know that you were transitioning into something new. And the first day of that transition, the first day you were no longer being part of that identity at your job and you exploring something new, the first day. Do you remember, when you woke up, how you felt?

Speaker 2:

Well, that I had pre-gamed right. So you say some theory that you dream things, so your body and mind prepares to the worst nightmare. I'm just like, so yeah, I had a lot of nightmares about me quitting.

Speaker 2:

So I knew exactly what to do. I was just leaving what in the nightmares my, my mind had prepared for. It felt exciting. It felt there was like a little bit of okay, now what? And in fact here is what happened. We had a. There was a miscommunication on my last day, and so my last day happened while I was actually at work and was during the pandemic and I was actually in a meeting, and then at some point I see my account being deactivated and everything started airing and I was like wait a minute, it's supposed to be tomorrow.

Speaker 1:

Was that your worst nightmare?

Speaker 2:

Was that your worst nightmare? No, that I didn't play game planning in my nightmares, but I heard of these things happening for other reasons, and so at that point I was like, okay, well, I guess this is done, no-transcript, have everything sorted out. And before I quit, I really wanted there was like a couple of documents, a couple of emails that I needed to send, a couple of knowledge to answer, a couple of right, right, and I was like rushing to get through it and then I can't get deactivated. And so to your question on what on what the feeling was. First feeling was relief. This is it, uh, yeah. And then I I let it settle. I got a notification on my apple watch that my badge had been removed. I took a screenshot of that, still in my library you still have it it's uh, it's a good memory.

Speaker 2:

It's um, I didn't really know what to make of that memory back then, but I saved it because I knew that three years down the line I would look at that memory, yeah, with some eyes and and with some feelings that I wanted to experience, and so I I decided to save it. So first thing was relief, and then I took the day off.

Speaker 1:

I was starting the following day what did you do on day off? What? What did you do on day off? Did you go flying? Did you do something fun?

Speaker 2:

I I think I did what I had done for the two weeks that led me to the decision. I stayed in the bathtub staring at the wall, wondering if that was the right decision. What was going through?

Speaker 1:

your mind. You probably had all kinds of voices there, right like that was the right decision. What was going through your mind?

Speaker 2:

you probably had all kinds of voices there, right like what was the loudest voice at first, everything, everything, honestly, had happened already while I was taking the decision, one one that, once the decision was made, it was like okay, well, now the way, the way is forward, and I was really excited for what I was, for what I was about to do. I right, it was just the only my, the only question that that surface was like will I be able to do it right? This? This looks different. It already looked different, right, and I I thought that, working for a big corporate, it was, you know, as you said, you think that, hey, this is one of the best companies in the world.

Speaker 2:

Then, as a consequence, probably if I'm here, it's because I'm doing good. But let me tell you, startup life is completely different and actually, startup life in the Silicon Valley was completely different than startup life that I had experienced. And so, as soon as I was thrown out in a new job, it was very exciting, a lot of things to learn. At the same time, they're like oh wow, this looks a little different.

Speaker 1:

So what do you do now?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'm the CTO of a company called the Stepful that my friend Karl and Tavessia had piloted and funded a couple of months before I joined, and I joined the founding team with the idea of helping with technology to scale the company. And this company is an education tech company. This company is an education tech company. Our goal is to provide career pathways, regardless of background and circumstances, to people to get into healthcare.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. So you guys are helping people to find jobs in health.

Speaker 2:

Yes, we are an education provider.

Speaker 2:

I think one of the reasons why I decided to join this company is because, underlying this, that was also one thing that really probably affected my previous role at some point. My role was like, so far from the impact that it had on anyone and so to a certain extent, together with with the learning also, the purpose went away. And you know, when there's a day that you realize that if you don't really go to work really changes, and maybe it will change in the long, in the long run, but nothing would change in the world. Things would change in the world, things would change in the team, but the world would still Nothing would change in terms of impact. And then, whereas now what attracted me to this job is that we can really really make an impact and help people getting upskilled and going from unemployment or big economy jobs to jobs that are benefits and full-time, and that's the definition of upward mobility. And that's not only for them, it's for them and their families, and that just seemed something that I really wanted to be part of.

Speaker 1:

There is something like very clear that goes sort of very clearly throughout your career, which is impact. Why is it important to you to have impact?

Speaker 2:

Why wouldn't it be important for everybody? I think it's hard to find a role where impact I mean. I think that it's hard to make it a priority at all stages of your career. There are stages in which you need to prioritize other things and then if impacting is not there. So I consider myself lucky to be in the position that I can make a choice, and the choice is driven from what I really want to do, rather than having a choice that is made by circumstances. And to that extent, I consider myself lucky that my very own could potentially put other people in the same position to make a choice about their life based on what they want to do rather than what they are want to do rather than what they are forced to do.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that and that is so clear throughout your career choices that that is how you make choices right and how you want others to make choices as they are. That's very, very profound and so kind of.

Speaker 2:

I wish I made Not all the choices I made were about impact. I wish in hindsight maybe some would be like more impact-driven, but life is long and I'm happy now to be able to choose.

Speaker 1:

So fast forward, like say 10 years from now. Where do you see yourself?

Speaker 2:

And do not edit that. This is a question I don't like. I have no idea. I have no idea. It's okay. So let's take a step back. If you'd asked me the question 10 years ago where I wanted to be in 10 years, the answer you would have gotten from me. I don't know what the answer would have been, but it would have been like very, very, very far from where I wanted to be in 10 years, the answer you would have gotten from me. I don't know what the answer would have been, but it would have been like very, very, very far from where I am now. So, based on that, my prediction machine, my AI model it's not making any prediction on where I want to be in 10 years. I like what I'm doing, so I don't really need to be anywhere else in 10 years.

Speaker 1:

I like that.

Speaker 2:

I might be solving more problems. I might be solving more other problems, assuming that we manage to solve this one, but I see an organic path that goes and evolves and grows from where I am.

Speaker 1:

I love that I don't need to be anywhere in 10 years. That's so good. And let me slightly rephrase the question to add a little bit more of what's important to me and what I'd like the listeners to kind of get to is what do you want to feel in 10 years? Maybe that will be easier to answer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh gosh, how do I say that without saying that again and again, and again? I think I want to look back to this year and say like, hey, all the time that I spent at the office around in front of a computer writing code, hiring uh and making people works, uh, had a purpose, had uh made something good, like so late, um, improved uh someone's life? Uh, I'm just trying not to say the word, but that's uh. That's where I want to be in 10 years, right? So to look back and say like, okay, we graduated. So far, we've graduated 6,000 students, and it's 6,000 people whose life is different. In 10 years there will be many more. They will be with Stepfold. It might be the next problem we are going to be tackling. That said, there are people that the next problem we are going to be tackling. That said, there are people that I can look back and say like, hey, some people are now better because of something that my co-founder and I did. That's exciting to me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's interesting how in our life we often have goals and we think that's our goal. For example, my goal is to have to become a I don't know manager, three or director, whatever right Like. And then you ask yourself and then what right? And the true goal behind that goal, which is an intermediate goal, really is a goal that starts with so that right like, I want to become a director so that I can support my parents financially or whatever like. My end goal is not really that transition become some something in my career, but really I want to help people and I want to feel accomplished by making other people's lives better. Right, that's the goal. You feel accomplished through that. And whatever the steps in between, those are just intermediate goals and just phases that ultimately lead you to the final goal that you want to do in your life, and I think that is amazing.

Speaker 1:

So I imagine lots of listeners of this podcast are sort of in a similar situation that you've been back then situation that you've been back then. Um, maybe they want to transition into something new, or they want to learn something new and they are afraid of making that decision, of that transition. Or, you know, they want to do something. And there is the field, there is something cooking in them, like they feel that, like intuition popping up here and there saying like hey, let's do something. Like hey, let's, let's, let's decide and do something else. Right, something's calling them, but they are still doing what they're doing. So what would you tell them and what would you tell yourself when you were there?

Speaker 2:

okay, so let me, let me get the question back to you. So, before starting this journey, I remember you called me one day and you asked me this question and this question was like more and more, more from your side, what to do and do you remember the answer?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I do remember what. Do you remember the answer?

Speaker 2:

yes, I do I think you said I wish I had done that earlier. I wish I made that decision earlier. Yes, all right that's that.

Speaker 2:

That's that that still stands, and what that meant is that I, for for a long time, you know, it took me a little bit to open my heart to possibilities, and that time was the time where I had stopped learning already, but still it didn't. I hadn't take the decision to move on, and so I could say that probably I would have taken the decision one year later. One year earlier, maybe even two. I wish I had detected earlier the moment in which I was stopping learning, and I still stand by that and I still stand by that. The other thing I would say is the fear stops the moment you take the decision.

Speaker 2:

Fear is normally a feeling that comes from insecurity. You are afraid of the unknown. Once the decision is there, once you know what you are going to do, then it's not fear anymore. There are other fears uh, as a startup maybe I mean you you can be dead any day for uh, for quite a while. So your changes, but uh, but once you're making the decision and you commit to it, things are much, much easier, unless don't think that they might. And once you are trying to take the decision.

Speaker 1:

You know, I love that because it reminds me on the fact that, before we take the decision right, that kind of question is out in our head all the time and it's consuming our energy and resources so much. It consumes our energy and resources every single time we think of it. And the reason we feel so much better after we take that decision is because all that energy that was stuck there before now can flow and you can use all that energy that you used and wasted on that question, that you couldn't, um, you know, decide for such a long time. And then that's why you feel relieved because you spend so much energy on just doubting and and thinking about like, should I make that or should I? Should I do that, should I not do that? Because it's so like energy consuming and so energy wasting, and we just all we do is just wasting the energy of trying to fight our voices inside. But when we do that, we, we, we experience a lot of frustration and thoughts with ourselves. So we are basically just fighting with ourselves.

Speaker 2:

But at that time, right, also there's a lot of focus. People think like, hey, is that the right decision? I think they need that, that, I. There is no right decision.

Speaker 2:

There is a decision you make it and then you go with it and then you make the best you can from that decision and you can always make another decision eventually, and all the time that you spend trying to think if that, if that would be the the right decision, it's time that you waste. Yes, thank you for naming that. Time is the only limited resource that we have. There are others, but time is the one that is very strictly limited. Other resources can be worked on.

Speaker 1:

Can be reverted, right, like time. We really just can't revert because it's just it's, it's done, what's done is done, like time, ways can't go back and and in time. So, yeah, thank you for naming that. That is so, so true. And um, why don't you just say like to, to kind of uh, to close up the conversation uh, what book are you currently reading and how can people find you? In case they want to talk to you or just wanted to connect to you? You're not reading books. Huh, okay, what if you don't read the book? What's the music like when you get in the car? What's what's playing? I walk home? Okay, when you go on your bike rides or when you go for runs?

Speaker 1:

I know you're listening to something. There's no biking in New York.

Speaker 2:

And someone taught me that you shouldn't run with music.

Speaker 1:

Someone, I know that right. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, I'll get back to you on the book.

Speaker 1:

That's okay.

Speaker 2:

No, there are many books that I wish I was reading a little bit more. But okay, and what was the second question?

Speaker 1:

The second question is how can people connect to you, how can people find you?

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I just put my email address in the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right, sounds good. Linkedin, I don't know. I know you are a pilot, so maybe you can share your piloting Instagram, if you are fancy to do that. You have amazing pictures. By the way, you flew to San Francisco today, or whenever that was, or maybe it was a picture from some other time, but it was so good.

Speaker 2:

I went on Monday and then I came back to New York yesterday and I just missed it so much that I took the plane. I was like, okay, okay, daytime, me and the plane, and and off we went and and yeah, the sunset was amazing and I just decided to share I mean, isn't that what we want to feel at the end of the day?

Speaker 1:

that we can hop on the freaking plane and be whatever we want at our own pace and decision? That we are taking that, that freedom that we get at the end of the day, you know like after, after all these decisions, that we've been through the end, that one moment where we just fly to san francisco to see the sunset at the golden gate bridge and come back to new york for the meeting next day.

Speaker 2:

That's a freaking liberation freedom and happiness yes, and and that and that, and that clearly requires uh, but I think that I think, at the same time, you cannot really enjoy that. So in order to be able to enjoy that, well, of course you need to afford it, you need freedom, there's like a lot of other things. But even but what people say, money doesn't doesn't make happiness. It's true, because even if you had all of that without being accomplished internally, I wouldn't be able to just be in the moment and simply enjoy that. I'm watching a sunset and that's all I care about in that moment. There's a sunset.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to take it in Enjoy. Exactly my mind would be somewhere else, even if all the other needs would be, fulfilled, including financial stability.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, all right. On that note, thank you, edo, for being the first guest on this podcast. I appreciate your time and your wisdom, and I'll see you soon.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, allah, I'm glad. I'm glad to be your.

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Alla Shashkina

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