The Sea Squirt Effect: Tech Tales of Transition
Welcome to "The Sea Squirt Effect" podcast! I'm Alla Shashkina, and in this series, I interview individuals in technology who have transitioned into, out of, or within the tech industry.
You might be wondering why this podcast is called “The Sea Squirt Effect.” The name comes from the fascinating sea squirts—creatures that constantly move and evolve until they stop and begin to digest their brain. This concept of continual growth and evolution has guided my life decisions, driven by the question of what story I will tell my grandchildren. I strive to ensure each decision contributes to my evolution, personal growth, and the betterment of the world.
I want to inspire people in tech to embrace the sea squirt effect, whether in their next career move or in making life-changing decisions. I interview individuals with compelling stories—those who have been in tech for a long time and those who transitioned from completely different industries. These are people who took bold steps to evolve and make the world a better place.
The Sea Squirt Effect: Tech Tales of Transition
Lara Dreis: From Tech Chaos to Vineyard Serenity, Journey of Transformation and Growth
Join us as we sit down with Lara, who opens up about her fascinating journey from a public relations graduate in Florida to a tech industry professional and eventually a wine enthusiast living her best life in Napa. Lara shares her passion for creating meaningful connections and how this has driven her career moves and personal growth.
In our conversation, Lara recounts her early days job-hunting through newspaper classifieds, the evolution of interview processes in tech, and her unexpected detour into marketing procurement. She provides a behind-the-scenes look at negotiating contracts, managing large-scale events, and pioneering inclusion and diversity initiatives. Lara's fearless advocacy for diverse hiring practices and empowering quieter colleagues offers a masterclass in making impactful changes within an organization.
We also delve into Lara’s personal transformation from managing tech industry stress to finding fulfillment in the wine industry. Lara shares invaluable strategies for managing stress, building confidence, and maintaining emotional intelligence in high-pressure environments. She wraps up with practical advice on balancing work and personal life, emphasizing the importance of adding leisure to business trips and the joy of working with trustworthy colleagues. Don't miss this inspiring episode filled with heartfelt reflections and actionable insights.
Connect to Lara on LinkedIn or Instagram.
There is a wealth of information available and only so much time in the day. Therefore, I truly appreciate you spending some of your valuable time listening to this podcast. Your feedback is very important so please reach out to me on LinkedIn or over email: alla@evolvexlabs.com.
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Music credits & copyright by "Odin v olen'yem parke" ("Один В Оленьем Парке").
Lara, welcome, and I would love to ask you this first question to kick off this episode what makes you most alive, lara?
Speaker 2:Great. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Well, I'm a pretty social person, so I would say connections of any kind. So whether it's just seeing friends and family or getting a gathering of people together, I love to piece that together, and whether it's the food, the music, whatever, but watching that kind of come together and making connections between people that I think will get along or have something in common, I love that so much and I love keeping that network that I created when I was working in tech. I'm still in touch with so many people, I'm still mentoring people and I really do get a lot of satisfaction out of making those connections.
Speaker 2:When someone says, oh, a friend of mine recently has a goddaughter who's looking to work in environment and has a million degrees and it's time to get a regular job, and I said, oh, I know somebody here's this person, I'm like would you talk to her? And he's like, of course, happy to. And I said, oh, I know somebody here's this person, you know, I'm like would you talk to her? And he's like, of course, happy to. And I'm like I know that that's going to help her. And it was just me making one overture to one person that I know will open many doors, like I get a lot of satisfaction out of that and makes me feel really useful, you know to other people and very alive, like why keep the information to myself? If I've known somebody that can help you, I want to make that connection for them.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm, I love that. Why don't you talk a little bit about your background, where you're born and where you are right now?
Speaker 2:So I grew up in South Florida, in Fort Lauderdale, and I went to school there as well, and as soon as I graduated from college with a degree in public relations, which I thought was going to be my career, I hopped on up to New York City and really spent the majority of my 20s in New York working a little bit in PR but then quickly pivoting to marketing and events. So, like I said, I spent most of my 20s there and then I decided I wanted to move to California that was always the final destination for me and found a position probably through an ad in the New York Times. I was thinking about it this morning. There was no internet there was no.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn back then. So I probably answered an actual ad in a newspaper and moved to Northern California, and that's where I have been ever since and landed in tech without a plan as such and had a really pretty great career in tech and now in something totally different.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So for people who have no idea how search in newspapers work including myself like, how do you approach, like how is there like a specific page on the newspaper that you go to and you see?
Speaker 2:job offerings. Yeah, back then, I mean, I probably bought the New York Times on the corner near my apartment and there was ads in the classifieds. So you go to the classifieds and there'd be jobs. And that's how I found all my jobs actually in New York was through the classified ads and you'd get, like you know, a small description of the job and probably a phone number to call if you were interested and then you would mail your resume actual paper resume and mail it off and I happened to find another business that was similar to the last job that I had in New York, so they knew the company I was working for.
Speaker 2:They were competitors. So they really wanted me, so they actually moved me from.
Speaker 1:New York to.
Speaker 2:California. That was the best part because I was young and didn't have a lot of money, so they moved me cross country for this event job that I did for them.
Speaker 1:So you did event in the big tech, in the tech company at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it ended up being they had done this partnership with Hewlett Packard, and Hewlett Packard was funding this large event, and it included about five or six other tech companies that also joined in, so it was all of their CEOs and then a bunch of breakouts, and so I came in to manage just the content and within two weeks and I knew the day I got there I called my friend in New York and I said the person that's running this does not know what she's doing. They're going to make me run this whole thing, and it's exactly what happened he was gone and they're like Larry, you're going to run the whole thing.
Speaker 2:And it was huge. It was this really large event, but I met some really great people, because representatives from all those tech companies were part of a steering committee.
Speaker 2:And we met every month in the lead up and I was running those steering committees and I was probably 30, you know, never run a steering committee before, but we had a really great group of people and they didn't always all agree so it was a lot of refereeing between all of them as well. But it is where I actually ultimately got my first job, because two of the people on that steering committee when I decided to leave the company because it was not a great company I did find out after I got here a little unstable they reached out and said there was a position in the events team at the company they worked at and they vouched for me and that's how I got my first real job at a tech company running their events.
Speaker 1:So it was kind of.
Speaker 2:I kind of had a long interview process that I didn't know was an interview.
Speaker 1:I like that. Oh, that's awesome. Right, the interview process back then I can see as being very simplistic compared to what we have right now.
Speaker 2:No, actually no. The company that I went to I interviewed and they were known for this, so they were probably one of the first tech companies that became known for I interviewed with at least 10 people if not more.
Speaker 2:And I think I'd interviewed back in my 20s with one person, got offered the job and then you started two weeks later. This process took almost three weeks, almost a month, and then they made the offer. But I found out after the fact from my manager that they would have hired me anyway because the two people that had recommended me were known for being the most difficult people to work with internally, and so they said, if they like you, we were hiring you. And I'm still friends with both of them, I'm still friendly with both of them today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're great.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god, that's funny. So you had to go through all that trouble to interview even though they already knew they're going to hire you.
Speaker 2:So they had a process that they went through for sure. Okay, I had no idea.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay Sounds familiar.
Speaker 1:So, and and what happened there? How did you progress from that company into one of the biggest tech companies?
Speaker 2:Well, I actually, you know, wanted to get out of events. That's really was the big turn for me. Um, I was, you know, approaching my, you know, wanted to get out of events.
Speaker 1:That's really was the big turn for me.
Speaker 2:I was, you know, approaching my you know 40. And I thought, oh, you know, I'm on the road all the time I was sick, all the time. It was just really depleting kind of job. And I really liked it and I love the travel, but I felt like it wasn't sustainable for the long haul and you really didn't get compensated that well in events. It's not the best place to be in a tech company, really, so I just started looking online.
Speaker 2:Now at least we have the internet, Yay. And I had picked a handful of companies that were smaller, because the company I was at was quite large, like over 100,000 employees and very global.
Speaker 2:All of those were great things, but and they still are. But I was like oh, let me go to a company that's like you know, maybe under 50,000 or you know 20,000 people, like somewhere where you could actually own something and maybe know more people you know across the company in a different way than when you're at a big company like that. And so I applied from the website of the company you and I worked at didn't know anyone and I applied for a marketing procurement job.
Speaker 2:That was my first job because they wanted someone to work with their event team who were known for being difficult and they wanted someone to work on contracts for all their vendors and they said we want you because you know events will teach you procurement and so straight off the internet. I got interviewed.
Speaker 2:I got interviews off of that and, um, and I interviewed with at least 10 people, if not more. It was crazy, uh, but great people, and they made me the offer and, true to true to their word, they taught me how to negotiate and how to be a procurement professional, which I had never done, and I made great strides with their event team because they respected me, because I knew their job. I wasn't going to ask them to do things that were not possible or try to negotiate things that are not possible or try to negotiate things that are not possible to negotiate. In events there are certain things that are just settled, you know. So, um, some of it's union related things that you know. Our teams didn't understand that and they kept thinking they could, you know, negotiate how much coffee costs at a convention center? I'm like no, no, no, no, that's already been negotiated by the union. That's done.
Speaker 2:You know so that job was great, though, because it got me in, but it also meant I worked all over the company, because I initially started with events, but then I started working with the marketing team, and then that extended to affiliate marketing, and then I was working with the education team. So I learned so much about our company at that time because I they kept sending me out to negotiate contracts with anything that was even close to being like marketing, and I mean I was. I was negotiating fixtures at one point, like product fixtures, which I was like I don't know anything about this. This is not good, but you know, if you know how to negotiate, you really can negotiate anything at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:So they have really prepared me quite well. So that's how I started in that role. It was kind of crazy, but it was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed it. It was a very challenging job and I learned a ton in doing what?
Speaker 1:what year was it when you entered that company? 2004, 2004, wow so uh-huh. I heard lots of products that people know today yeah, I'm trying to like put myself in like the timeline of, like, oh, what are the products that were released there? I see so, and you've been there for how long total?
Speaker 2:So?
Speaker 1:I was there for 17 years 17 years, that's such a long time. So how so at the? I guess in between the 17 years years you've been changing roles and teams and organizations. What was your sort of time where you felt the most amazing, like the best time of in your in your career during those 17 years?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'd say there's. There's two in that. One is kind of product related and the other is people related. It'd be great if they were the same thing, but they're really not. So from the product perspective, you know, everything is very team oriented.
Speaker 2:In what we did, a team for one of the events that really launched a very specific interactive piece at the event that the attendees just went completely crazy over, as did our executives.
Speaker 2:It was a very cool way of using the products to show the impact of them visually on site at Moscone and it was so well received that actually we brought the piece it was almost like an art piece really down to campus and we installed it in campus so everybody could see it.
Speaker 2:And that was so fun because we crossed over the entire company to build it, because we used all our own products, software and hardware to do it. So we had to go find a ton of people to help us, and what was so amazing about it was you found the person who knew how to do that one very specific thing and they're like yes, I'm in, when do you need me? How long you know you need me tonight? I'll be there tonight. And it was just this labor of love that was so cool to see it come to fruition, not just for ourselves and that satisfaction, but that the attendees who we did it for were so taken with it and felt that we really cared about the work that they did, that we made it a way to visually show it to the point where they did that same.
Speaker 2:They kept changing it a little bit and upgrading it, but they did it for about four or five years after that first one and we did it in about four weeks. It was a crazy turn as well, Like we were in some abandoned building where the whole team was there working morning, noon and night, and so that part was I mean it was really great to be part of that and then the people piece was something you and I worked on together in my last role around the inclusion and diversity work.
Speaker 2:That I was able to do mainly because I opened my mouth and made a statement about how we were hiring people and all of a sudden it became my side job. So you got to be careful when you speak up. You might get in that. But it was very satisfying. I felt like we made some change happen in some recruiting policies and we had a lot of support.
Speaker 2:So it was one of those moments where you felt like you were doing the right thing. It was still business related, but I felt like we were living the values that the company espoused and that we had the support to do it, and so that was super satisfying in a completely different way, that we were able to make some strides, I think, in the right direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you said you opened up your mouth and you spoke about something that was important to you. Can you kind of get back in time and remember how it felt in your body, how it felt in your heart when you said it? What motivated you to not be silent but actually say what you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in a conversation about hiring and headcount and that was part of my responsibility in that role, and I was in a meeting with some senior executives and somebody was presenting. They wanted to start some new line of work and they wanted to hire eight people, which is a lot to ask. It was a very good presentation. I probably would have said yes, and I didn't even know what the person was talking about in detail, because he did such a good job at presenting it and that is how it landed at the end of the meeting, the senior executive team said yep, makes sense, go forth, we'll find the headcount for you.
Speaker 2:And immediately, like, the executive, left and he was standing there with a couple other people and he said hey, I'm going to call my buddy at Google and I'm going to call my other friend at Facebook. And I was like no, no, and so I listened to that. I stepped outside and I talked to my manager and I said what are we doing about our recruiting? We have a responsibility. I said what are we doing about our recruiting?
Speaker 1:We have a responsibility.
Speaker 2:We're getting this headcount and we can't just keep hiring our buddies who look exactly like we do. I go. Is there a plan? Does recruiting have a plan around this and silence?
Speaker 1:She didn't know.
Speaker 2:And I said, well, that's just not right. Like we not only have, you know, responsibility for the team, but for the work to be better, with more diverse, you know hiring. But to the company who were reporting up these numbers, and we have goals and we can actually make a difference in those goals. And I think my first motivation was I was mad Because I just couldn't believe like that was the automatic and you intellectually, and that's what happens. But to hear it so blatantly like I've already got this worked out and I know exactly who I'm going to hire, without any conversation about looking for people with certain skills and things like that.
Speaker 2:So it was pretty much like a day after that, she came back to me and said oh, we're starting this new work stream off of our employee survey around inclusion and diversity and we'd love you to run it and then you can make it. You know you were very passionate about wanting to make a difference. Now you can really be in charge of it. Yeah, yeah, which I was like.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was like I couldn't say no and I didn't want to say no. I was like well, are people in support of this? Like, what power do I have?
Speaker 1:You know what can.
Speaker 2:I do, and I pretty much was given carte blanche like go make it happen. You have a great partner in your recruiting lead, and that was true. I think there just needed to be some stronger partnership between recruiting and the hiring managers and kind of make people think differently.
Speaker 1:You were the voice to say hey, I'm passionate about this, this. I want to make an impact, I want to make a change. I know how to. I know people, I have the experience and I am the person to run this. And they said go for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they did. And I think, also because I'd been at that point that was the last couple years of my you know time at the company that I was not afraid. You know, I wasn't concerned about my career or getting in trouble in some way or something like that. I mean, I often talk to people during that time who are?
Speaker 2:like you know, who are scared like, fully fearful, to speak up, and I think I had just been there so long and had seen a lot, and had seen a lot of passionate people debate and fight for what they wanted and been able to make things happen that I believed I could. I didn't, I didn't, wasn't in a position where I thought, well, if I'm right, I'm right, like this is the right thing to do, who's going to stop me? Right, and I think.
Speaker 2:I it made me sad when I would talk to people who were too afraid to speak up because I don't know where that came from, whether it was situational, or it was them personally, who they are, which I totally get um, or some combination that they didn't feel comfortable speaking up, and that just always made me sad. Uh, when I would hear that because their voice wasn't being heard and I'm not even sure their fear is valid because it came from them, but I'm not sure it was actually true, in that if they spoke up there would have been backlash or a problem.
Speaker 2:I was encouraged or when I was in meetings, I would always tell somebody ahead of time like I'm going to call on you, I'm going to ask you to speak up. I'd let them know, especially for the people that never did and they're like no, and I go yes, I'm doing it, so get ready. Or I give them kudos and say this was so-and-so's idea.
Speaker 2:Tell us a little bit more about it because otherwise they just melt into the furniture like they just disappear, and they're not. And the loudest people are always the ones that take the floor, you know this is so good.
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, I can relate to that myself. I was the first female engineer in my team back then and I remember not on top of like not speaking English as my native language and having some linguistic barriers, I also felt very strongly about certain things, but I was afraid to say it and I mean I worked for that tech company for 11 years and I think at the end of my career I was, I knew I had the confidence. The confidence for me comes with evidence. You know I I've been able to speak up successfully in the past and, um, it took, it took some time. And I remember, like if I, if I had an advice, like early on in my career, someone like you who told me something specific how to speak up, even though you're afraid, like if you were to give that advice to me 12 years ago, like what would that be?
Speaker 2:I think first I always would tell people to find an ally in the room. That you know if you're not in a one-on-one but if you're in a group setting, have somebody in there that's got your back, you know. So if you do speak up, they're there to agree or concur or just back you up. And everybody always had a buddy like that in the room. But if you had the conversation in advance for each other, like back each other up and then you know, don't speak out of emotion, you know like you said have the evidence, like speak to the experience you have why you think this.
Speaker 2:And it's just any kind of you know debating 101, you know. Have the data to back yourself up you know, especially at the company we were at that. You know, if you have the data to back it up, it's hard to you know. Say no if you can show it.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think it's just allyship, mainly in the space, and whether that's your managers in the room and you say to your manager I want to bring this up you know just kind of prepping a little bit in doing so but being very controlled in the way that you do it.
Speaker 2:I think I've seen people kind of get a little too emotional. If there's such a thing you know at work, it's hard right If you get, you're very passionate about something, but people will tune you out if they feel that it's about you, like if you're making it about you as opposed to making it about the project or the idea, and I think that's sometimes when people get tuned out as well.
Speaker 2:It's like well, they just want to get the glory for this or something like that, and it's perceived that way. It might not be true, but I think having an ally is probably the best, especially if you're very nervous about doing it, knowing you've got somebody in the room to back you up, I think is really key, I feel oftentimes, yes, because we are very passionate, we can be emotional about it and with emotion we can.
Speaker 1:I mean, emotions are important, they are part of the equation. But to get into that, get that window open, get that gateway open for people to think differently in that tech environment. I think data is the entry point that you would have as your weapon and then you can bring in emotion at some point after it. Once people settle with that, you know idea that this is something that we could look into.
Speaker 2:And prepare. Be prepared not just to throw something out there, even if you watch other people do it and they're successful at it. You know it's very frustrating to watch something like that, where someone in the room has a great relationship with the manager or the product lead and they can pretty much say anything and that person agrees with them because they have history. You know where you're like. I'm never going to get past that Well that's because they have history.
Speaker 2:You weren't here, you know you have to build those relationships. So you have history, you know and work on a project together probably another piece of advice, like when you work on a project and you get along with somebody and you never know where that person's going to end up.
Speaker 2:You know, stay in touch, like keep your network strong, build a network early on in your career, um, find people that you have an affinity with and don't just work on a project and walk away. Stay in touch, go have lunch. I mean sometimes it's purely social and you'd be amazed how much that will get you in the long run. They may know somebody who then they, you know somebody calls and says I was in this meeting with so-and-so and they'll be like oh gosh, I worked out, I worked with them five years ago. They were amazing.
Speaker 2:You know it just gives you a smoother entry into a lot of those conversations when you have a strong network of people who know you and respect your work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I'm sure you have an answer to this, because when you enter, say, you're going in a meeting where you know you're going to talk about certain things and you know you have an opinion and you have your ally. What would be the best place to sit in the room?
Speaker 2:Oh, that is a good question. As close to the decision maker as possible? A decision maker as possible. Often in those meetings, the most senior person, somebody's holding a chair for them, Whether it's their chief of staff or maybe even their administrative assistant. You know where they're going to be. I would be as close to them as possible or across from them.
Speaker 1:Don't be on the edges.
Speaker 2:Get there early so you can sit at the table. Sometimes meetings get crowded and you're in a second tier sitting on a bench or something. Make sure can sit at the table. Sometimes meetings get crowded and you're in a second tier sitting on a bench or something. Make sure you're at the table and as close to the decision maker and the decision maker might not be the most senior executive in the room who does that person look to when there's a question under debate? Who do they look at when there's a question under debate? Who do they look at? It could be a product manager, it could be their chief of staff. Like assessing a lot of those things ahead of time is important. Or ask like who's really the decision maker in that?
Speaker 1:meeting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, is the executive just coming in to kind of rubber stamp because they've already heard it and that's for everyone to hear sometimes it's not the most senior person in the room who's the decision maker, trying to assess that in advance and be as close as possible to that person, especially if you're nervous and you might not speak as loudly as you think you're going to and you want to be close to them so they can hear you. Or maybe they're on a Zoom and they're not even in the room.
Speaker 2:So you have to be kind of mindful of that now as well. It's not everybody's in one place any longer. So think about your timing and, you know, raise your hand or, you know, let people know you want to jump in. You have something like hey, when you're done, I've got something to add, and make sure you get your time. You know as well, and let people know you have something to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I recently uh heard mel robbins podcast on social interactions and I think one of the things that one of the guests said is the best place to if you are in a social event, somewhere in a restaurant, the best place to be around people to make connection is when people exit the bar because they're nervous. They write, they get like, oh, I gotta get a drink. So they go to the bar, they get a drink, they turn around with a drink in their hand and now they're able to socialize and connect because they feel more relaxed, they feel more open, and so that's the best place to make a connection I love that.
Speaker 2:I like that too. That's really good. I have to use that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right so kind of like going to where you are today. So how like you made that transition from being in tech to where you are right now, and I'm sure our listeners can't wait to hear what you're doing now. So how did that transition happen?
Speaker 2:Sure. So for me it was a double transition. So I not only left the company, I also left the area I was living. So I moved. I didn't move super far, I moved, you know, an hour and a half, two hours away, up in wine country. That was very intentional. I knew probably 15 years ago that this is where I wanted to live in, semi retire and then fully retire.
Speaker 2:Love the area, love wine and it's beautiful. So I was planning for that for years and had bought a home up here, and so I knew that was happening. What my next chapter work wise was going to be, I did not know. I had visions of maybe I'd consult, maybe I'd do some marketing for wine, maybe I'd work at a winery.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:So when I moved up here a couple of years ago so it's been two years now I did initially find I took a little time off and then I found a role at a little marketing agency here in town that focuses on wine and it was great because it was post COVID. I was one of those weird people that doesn't like working from home, so I was desperate to find an office to go to, which is harder to find, and they had a little house downtown. And they had a little house downtown, it sounded. They promoted me and it was a very small agency.
Speaker 2:I got promoted early and the whole office revolted and that was super uncomfortable and I could feel it. Nobody was out and out nasty. But it did not go over well and I just said to the owner you know you have more problems to solve than me. Like the fact that that happened. Take me out of the equation and go solve your issues with your staff instead of shoving me down their throats. Like I just didn't want to be in that position. I didn't have energy to win over an entire agency.
Speaker 2:I said, oh no, I can't do that. So so I left. I said, oh no, I can't do that. So so I left, took a little time, and during this time I also moved my mother from Florida to California as well. So, I'm the only caregiver for her. So it was really important to take the time to move her, get her settled, and so I'm happy I had time to do that, because that's, you know, about half my life these days.
Speaker 2:So that was also something to consider. Um, and then I started consulting, which a lot of us say when we leave tech well, I'll just do some consulting. And I did that for about a year. Honestly, a lot of ups and downs in pay because consulting comes and goes, so I didn't really know how to manage that very well. I didn't like it.
Speaker 1:I didn't like that.
Speaker 2:For like three weeks I didn't work at all, and then for two weeks I worked a lot and I was like this is not great.
Speaker 2:And then I ended up really consulting and communications and ended up doing the work that I left tech, you know, to get away from. You know, to get away from it really wasn't better. It was just doing the same work for a bunch of different companies. And I just had a moment and where it was in a crisis situation and I said I hate this, I don't want to be in these conversations, I don't want to be crafting, you know, emails and slides for executives, um, because they're not capable of doing it themselves, which is depressing unto itself. And so at that point that was last fall, I said I'm going to go, you know, and I wanted to be there a year. I said I'll give this a year. Very lovely company, wonderful people. I do not regret it. It was great. I got a lot of experience in lots of different companies. I know every bit of software, productivity, software tools. I can do all of them.
Speaker 2:Now it's shocking how many are out there that do the same thing. But that was sort of my plan at that point last fall where I said I'm done, I just have to get out of corporate like this. So for those two years it was hard I didn't find, I didn't land on what I thought I was going to do.
Speaker 2:The move was great. I met a lot of people where I'm living here. Um, that part was super easy. I don't regret the move at all. I love where I'm living. It was a very hard two years of trying to figure out what my next chapter was going to be, and maybe because I didn't have a plan. Ding, ding about what that was. I kind of faltered for a couple years and it was hard it.
Speaker 1:And how did that feel? That moment when you said, okay, this is going to be my last day, and you made an announcement Like how did that? I guess there are two different points of time where you internally decided this will be my day and then you announced it. Both of them how did they feel?
Speaker 2:because it was during COVID. So it was somewhat of an emotional decision at that point because it was when I didn't really want to go back to the office at that point and I kind of knew I was done. So it was a big sense of relief when I actually decided and told my manager that I was going to go and I had a great relationship with her so I was able to let her know pretty far in advance. So she had time, yeah, and she was very supportive and jealous was fascinating because you could feel like the jealousy and happiness coming back in my direction. People were just some people were really surprised, amazed, like what are you doing? How are you doing this? And it was sort of I got the feeling that they were waiting to see what I was going to do. You know what that looks like. Like. If she can do it, can I do it?
Speaker 1:you know kind of thing so there was part of that, but again it was a big sense of relief the relief that people knew relief that well, now it's out there. So I really have to do it right now we're just thinking about it.
Speaker 2:It was actually oh no, now, it's.
Speaker 2:now it's happening Um and I can kind of execute on the plan that I had. Um, that's very satisfying, you know, when you make a decision and you have your milestones and some, somehow nothing stops you from executing on that plan, especially for something personal, you know. So it was, it was exciting, I wasn't scared, but I think that's because I had been planning it for so long and I knew I was financially okay. I knew I was mentally and physically ready to make that big of a change, because it was time. You know, I'd been there a very long time, just felt like I had no more to add at that point. You know, it was a little groundhog day. I had been at the company so long that I had been through so many cycles of products and people and we're up, we're down and you end up in the same conversations over and over. It doesn't really change that dramatically. A lot of things change but a lot of things don't.
Speaker 2:And you're like haven't we already talked about this? Have we not solved this problem? No, we're still talking about it, so after those cycles, those like probably four good cycles of whether it was business or personal or you know going into a new group and making changes. I often, in those changes within the company, went into a group that was a little bit in crisis, that needed to be shaken up a bit, and so I had done that three times and that was hard because you don't come in as being the favorite person.
Speaker 2:You're coming in to tell people what they've been doing is not appreciated the way they think it is, and a senior executive wants to see things different and you're kind of coming, you're coming in to do a little cleanup, and that's really hard and it takes a big emotional toll as well. So I was looking forward to not being in that position, you know any longer as well. You know it was hard, always went well. I mean, fortunately it went well and it wasn't just me. I came in with a senior executive who I worked for, who became, you know, the person who would do things like that, who would come in and you know, up-level a group and really take a look at what was happening and were they operating at the right level and um, and then make changes. And that's hard, it's really, really hard.
Speaker 1:So so change management is really like crisis management is really what you're really good at, I believe. So what is, like, the most important thing when you manage crisis with people?
Speaker 2:I guess yeah, stop and slow down. Ask lots of questions, really assess what's happening and create a plan of what needs to happen next. You know, rushing in when there's a crisis to think you're going to fix something quick. Rushing in when there's a crisis to think you're going to fix something quick very rarely works.
Speaker 2:You know you've got to take a little time to hear everybody out. You know as to what's going on, what people think is going on. You're trying to assess what's really happening and then coming up with a plan and delegating out you know and then coming back together regularly, especially during a crisis. You can't create a plan for trying to solve something and then tell everybody to go and then not come back like same day. You know where you're meeting, maybe three times a day for a week until you get to the end of the crisis. You know, and really just know your facts. Make sure what you're saying is truthful, that you're being transparent.
Speaker 2:You know with, however, you've got to communicate about the crisis and then know what your end goal is. You know, but you have to. In order to be able to do that, you've got to take a breath and really assess what's happening and where. What's the expectation to solve for the crisis. So you need that and even if that time is an hour, just take the hour to figure out what's really happening and find the person who's in charge.
Speaker 2:You know of who's going to make decisions and who's got the power to make those decisions, because things might keep changing during the crisis and you want to make sure everyone knows what's happening. So transparency is super important internally and externally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 1:So do you remember the first day after you left your? You left your job and one and we're transitioning like the first day the first morning. What did you do?
Speaker 2:I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2:I remember that I think I woke up and I was like wait, I don't have to be anywhere, I don't know, it was very freeing, um, at the same time, I think I maybe went for a walk you know, I kind of went outside in the middle of the day and did things that I thought, ooh, I can do this now on a Tuesday at two in the afternoon when nobody else is out doing grocery shopping or you know whatever. It is where you're usually fighting with lots of people, and I had to try really hard not to schedule myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was my other question. Like did you try to get into the structure somehow, some, some way, like your calendar being empty? Did that create anxiety in you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little bit, I think, because I had moved recently. I had lots of projects at the house to do, whether it was unpacking or hanging pictures, planting, plant, you know, making my garden. I mean, I did have a decent amount of home projects to do and I would fill my time with that, but I never. I didn't have a structure and I lasted about six months in that because it was such a. I mean, covid was so stressful, the job was so stressful and after 17 years of doing it I was kind of good with that. Six months I needed it to just really decompress.
Speaker 2:And then, after that was when okay, I got to find something, what am I doing? I got to find a job and it didn't take me. It took me about a month to find that that first role. Um, and it's funny because I had at that time two job offers one was consulting and it was working from home. It was probably more lucrative and but it was at a company I'd worked at before and I was like I don't really want to do this.
Speaker 2:And then the other was that agency and it was local and I could go in the office. So I do kind of think, gosh, what would have happened if I had done the other one would have been a money decision, basically, and I don't think I've ever made a job decision based on money. So I don't know why I would start now. So I didn't. But it wasn't the right call, you know either. But was it? You know what you don't know, you can't, you can't go back. So I stick, I stand by my decision. It did cause a little strife in my life, but it kind of got me to where I am now. So I think every everything's worthwhile. At the end of the day, you always learn. Learn something right so true.
Speaker 1:And so what do you do now?
Speaker 2:so I am doing what? Uh, when I told people I was leaving and moving to napa, they said oh, are you going to go pour wine and I went I don't know, or my standard answer was, I would tell people I was going to be the 911 operator. That's what I wanted to be. I just wanted to like's what I wanted to be. I just wanted to like you know, because I'm good in a crisis and I thought well, yeah, answering 911, I'm totally fine.
Speaker 1:And I actually did look into it.
Speaker 2:I almost took the test to be the 911 operator because I thought wouldn't it be funny if I actually did that after saying that to people as a joke? You're saying that to people as a joke, but the one thing I really, you know, the one thing I really was always interested in but, funny enough, it's hard to get a job at a winery when you don't have wine experience. They are as bad as tech. Not wanting to hire people outside the tech world. The wine industry is exactly the same.
Speaker 2:So I very intentionally really pulsed my network of people that I knew here and said, okay, I'm really ready, I need to talk to people and I want to talk to them about the jobs and what I might be good at and does it make sense? Like pouring wine, it's the lowest level job in some wineries, but I wanted to talk to people that did the job and ask them why they like it. So I was able to make a couple of nice connections with people, and it was winter so it really wasn't a great time to be looking, Cause that's when the wineries are pretty quiet. But I lucked out.
Speaker 2:I met somebody at a party, a friend of a friend, and she and I were about the same age and I said why do you like doing it? What's good about it, what's good about it, what's bad about it? You know how much money do you make? And she's like wait, do you want to come work at the winery? And I was like are you hiring? And that's really how it happened.
Speaker 2:I said well, I need to talk to you more, and I basically interviewed her about all the things I said and I'm like why do you like it? Because it's a physical job too, you know, and I'm not 25. And so I was like I didn't want to work with a bunch of 25 year olds and be the only one showing up consistently and doing all the work that nobody wants to do, right, I was a little concerned about that. It's almost like working in a restaurant in that regard.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So she assured me that it was like you know, there were mature people working at their winery and that she thought I'd be a great fit. She's like you're actually our client, you know you are our customer. We need more people pouring wine that have been on the other side of the table and understand what people are looking for. And it took about three months, but I went through the interview process. There was one interview with three people. And they offered me the job like the next day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I started working at a winery pouring wine.
Speaker 2:So I get to merge my need for social interaction with my passion for wine and it has been great. I really, really like it a lot and I think it's what I probably should have could have done initially, but I had to go through what I went through to get to it.
Speaker 1:Nice, I love it. And do you ever deal with emergencies? Right now, hawaiian emergencies yes a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know people show up early or they show up very late, or people walk in and we're kind of not. You know we're almost full and our policy is to say yes, and so we find a way to make it work. So it can get a little, can get a little hairy, you know, some days, but other than that, no, I mean there's always enough wine to pour and and people are super nice, they're there to have a great experience. So you're really hitting people at a great place. They're there on vacation, they're relaxed and they want you to tell them about wine.
Speaker 2:They're there to be educated, which is kind of nice, and look at a beautiful view. I have the best office in the world now and, um, nobody can send me a slack. It's great. You, you cannot slack me. Please don't slack me.
Speaker 1:That's so lovely. I love it. I love it. Do you ever get this feeling like? I talked to someone recently and he said he also left his job in tech in big tech and moved to small tech he's still in tech, but big to small in big tech and moved to small tech he's still in tech, but big to small. And one thing he told me was something like he bonded over an experience with someone else who was in big tech as well in the same company, and they both shared the same experience in terms of missing the stress, and you always feel like you are sort of not doing enough work and you're going to be getting in trouble because you're not in that crisis mode all the time.
Speaker 2:Do you?
Speaker 1:ever get that feeling of like oh you know, I'm missing this stress, or like I'm missing this adrenaline, or like I'm not doing enough, or whatever.
Speaker 2:That is oh no, no, no, no, I don't, I don't. I feel like I worked at such a level for so many years that, for good reason, I always say you know about our previous company, they got a lot out of me and I got a lot out of them. It was a very even relationship, I think in that regard provided me the life that I'm leading and really great travel and wonderful, wonderful people. You know that I met that I'm going to be friends with forever, but I don't miss the stress. I don't operate on stress that way. I know a lot of people find it motivating.
Speaker 1:I do not.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm a very calm person even when there's a lot going on, so I'm good in a crisis.
Speaker 1:That's why you're so good in crisis. There's a lot going on.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm good in a crisis. That's why you're so good in crisis. Yeah, yeah. So I don't miss that at all. In fact, at this point I think I'd be. It would be a problem for me if I was in that much churn or stress, because I don't really don't want it anymore and it's.
Speaker 2:It's such a huge relief not to live under that kind of pressure anymore, I look better, I feel better, my body feels better, I'm much healthier, I think, than I was, and that's you know. That's a consideration. You know, you watch a lot of people in tech get sick. You know, and I fully think they're sick from the stress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's exactly like what I'm dealing with right now with my program that I'm building is to manage stress, to work with anxiety, to panic attacks, burnout symptoms, all those things that pretty much create a sympathetic overdrive of your nervous system. And we are in that situation where we're always in that sympathetic overdrive and our we and we start viewing things like threats. Like we see something happening to us or with us and we are viewing it from a perspective of a threat, because we're always in that sympathetic fight on flight response. And what I'm trying to figure out is like how can I help people like that to deal with stress really well? Like one of the things with nervous system is like one of the properties of the nervous system is flexibility, right, and we can.
Speaker 1:We can deal with stress really well, but we can come back to that regulated state and deal with stress again and come back to it again. But if we're always in that stressful environment and we can't come back, that's where issues with health start happening and you almost feel like you know post-traumatic syndrome with working in such a stressful environment without being able to downregulate yourself. And that's where I'm trying to figure out how to help people with that. Oh, I love it, and I can imagine you being a wine educator. You are in such a parasympathetic rest and digest environment because people are happy when they drink wine.
Speaker 1:So you're always surrounded by this calm and happy and social engagement, and I can feel how that can be so nourishing to you as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, completely, completely and it's inspiring, you know, on some level, like you're talking to people and they're interested, right, they come in wanting to have a conversation, so I tell them my story sometimes and they're like you're living the dream. I want to know more, you know. I want you to tell me how you did it. I'm like save your money.
Speaker 1:I'm always like all the things.
Speaker 2:I might buy some wine today, of course, buy lots of wine for me. But you know, watch how you're spending your money and that's like conspicuous consumption, Like you won't have it to be able to get the freedom that you're probably going to want at some time you know and sadly I think what happens to people too is I'm sure you know people, as I do, who ended up on a medical leave you know from you know, from tech I mean a lot of people and that started happening, I'm going to say about 10 years ago, because I had a friend that went through it.
Speaker 2:I was like what, like one of the strongest people I know. I was absolutely shocked and she just lost all of her confidence and had a really, really hard time. And I mean, I know two people right now that are out on a medical leave, you know, and that's their only recourse.
Speaker 2:It's their only way to hit the pause button. Course it's their only way to hit the pause button, and that's just horrible, yeah, mental or physical Right, and so that worries me that, like you said, people really need to figure out a way to handle the stress, remove it or ask for help. You know, I always used to say that when I had people working for me that missed deadlines or had some personal thing going on or there was always some drama as we all know when you're managing people lives.
Speaker 2:Lives are complicated and I said why didn't you ask for help? We could have helped, you know, raise your hand. We have a team, you know, and trying to do it all yourself too. I think it's, you know, fear of failing or that you're going to get in trouble. And I was like I would much rather you ask for help and we and we hit our deadline because the person behind us needs the work we're doing to carry on with their work.
Speaker 2:You know you're stopping the whole process, um, because of pride or fear. Those are really dangerous emotions when you work on a team. So you know, ask for help and they just don't. You know, and then they, they take themselves down in the process. So it always makes me nervous, especially with our younger team members, that they don't know. They just don't know how to do it.
Speaker 1:Um, it's really interesting yeah, and know, I think it's so important for leaders these days to acquire skills to identify the symptoms in your team members that deal with burnout, stress and proactively tell them to take a break. Yes, agreed, and I think that emotional intelligence that takes a lot of knowledge of yourself, of how it works with other people, how to identify it, how to read between the lines. It takes a lot of experience and I think if we can teach those people in tech leaders in tech to identify that better, our productivity will be skyrocketing at some point yeah, especially the first time managers.
Speaker 2:I think, that's a whole group of people that desperately need attention and help. They're not often trained. They're made a manager because they're good at their job, not necessarily good at managing people or they don't know because they're a first time manager. And that part. They're often just. They have no idea how to do that and sometimes they don't want to. They don't think it's their job.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, you know and the reality is it A it's your job and B it's going to affect your team. So if you care about your team, not just yourself that's also a problem sometimes Then you know that's what makes a great manager. You know you have to care about the work and the people, but it is hard. It's a hard thing and, like you said, it's a learned behavior, like people have to be educated in it. So it's great that you're doing what you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's also so rewarding if you, as a leader, can help people emotionally. I mean, I'm not talking about being a therapist, right. I'm talking about lending a hand when they need you, right, and allowing them give them the permission that they have. They need to take a take a break, and it doesn't have to be big. Sometimes it can be just one day, like one extra Friday in a week. Yeah, it will come back so much. It will come back so much. They will come back so much stronger. And you know, I go as far as to say that I now not have a formula how to deal with all that. So, um, yeah, we'll. We'll see how that evolves and unfolds, but this is, this is great. I love it. So, wrapping up this episode, lara, what would you kind of, what kind of advice would you give to your younger self?
Speaker 2:I have a few that I thought about on this, because my number one thing is to always trust your gut. Like if something feels wrong, it's wrong. If you meet somebody and something feels off about them, you're probably right. Like if you're the hair stands up on your arms a little bit or you just feel like they're not being honest or something's just not right for you. Like, trust that, be a little on guard, ask questions, but make sure you trust your gut. I often did that, Sometimes I didn't, and it always proved to be the wrong move when I didn't trust myself what my gut was telling me. On the fun side, whenever you have a business trip, always add two days for yourself. You just got a free ticket somewhere. Add a couple days and do something fun in that location. You don't know if you're ever going to get back there again. So I did that a few times. I wish I had done it more.
Speaker 2:I was always rushing back to the office and I never got back to some of these wonderful places that I was able to go. And then my last thing is to always work with good people. Like, the work is one thing, but when you find the right set of people to work with that are smart, that you can trust, that look out for each other, you know, hang on to that. It's really important and it's pretty rare.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that last, like social component to work fills up our cup even more than anything else. Work fills up our cup even more than anything else. Yeah and oh, it's just, it's so important. I love that. All right, lara, where can people find you in case they want to taste wine or just connect to you or ask any other questions you might have?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I'm at odette estate winery in napa, right on Silverado trail. Check us out on talk. You can book a tasting or you can always reach out to me. I'm on Instagram, it's at Lara Lou eight. And I'm sure I will put that into the notes, but you can reach out to me directly as well, and we'd love to talk to you about wine or anything else you want to talk about.
Speaker 1:Awesome, all right, well, thank you, lara, for coming to the podcast and being a second guest. This was amazing. I learned so much and I hope our listeners will also take away a few things from this. Thank you, thank you.
