The Talent Forge: Shaping Workforce Behaviors with Jay Johnson

What Will Your Leadership Leave Behind? Smart Power, Real Impact with Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau

• Jay Johnson

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Feeling pulled in every direction, yet determined to lead well? We sit down with Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau—author of "Who’s in Charge?"—to unpack a practical path for impact that doesn’t cost your health or your soul. Drawing on her experience across the European Commission, consulting, and executive coaching, we examine how culture, power, and purpose intersect in real workplaces where speed and pressure never quit.

We start with power. Not the brittle kind that leans on title and control, but smart power: a blend of systems thinking, merging perspectives, authentic grounding, relational fluency, and transformational intent. Energy takes center stage next. We break it into four domains—physical, emotional, mental, spiritual—and show why multitasking is just fast fatigue. Expect tangible resets: slow down to truly slow down, reclaim focus with single-task blocks, and practice “pause and choose” to prevent resentment from draining your tank. Finally, we turn to legacy. A spoken eulogy exercise helps you name what you want to be true about your leadership and life—then work backward to today. Legacy isn’t a plaque on a building; it’s how people remember your presence and the systems you leave stronger. 

If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a leader who needs it, and leave a quick review to help others find us. What pillar are you strengthening this week—energy, power, or legacy?

Connect with Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau: https://www.smartpowermethod.com/ 

Meet the Host
Jay Johnson works with people and organizations to empower teams, grow profits, and elevate leadership. He is a Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements®, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a designated Master Trainer by the Association for Talent Development. With a focus on behavioral intelligence, Jay has delivered transformational workshops to accelerate high-performance teams and cultures in more than 30 countries across four continents. For inquiries, contact jay@behavioralelements.com or connect below!

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayjohnsonccg/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayjohnsonccg/
Speaker Website - https://jayjohnsonspeaks.com

Jay Johnson:

Welcome to the Talent Forge, where together we are shaping workforce behaviors. Today I'm excited to welcome special guest, Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau, who is the author of a recent book, Who's in Charge? Which is a book for leaders and entrepreneurs moving beyond conventional success. So I'm really excited to dig into this conversation and welcome you to the show, Dr. Sylvia.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Well, thank you, Jay. Such a pleasure to be on your show, which I think is excellent, and I look forward to our conversation.

Jay Johnson:

I appreciate it. So let's get started. How did you get into this talent development space and working with leaders and obviously producing some incredible thought leadership in the area?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Well, I I listened to one of your recent episodes, and I love what you said about your your how you got into it, because it for me it's more or less the same. I didn't plan to, uh it was more by chance. I um study political science, especially international relations and security studies. And I was always very much interested in the psychological aspects of it. So the communication theory, um uh the the sociology also of international relations. And then I my first job was at the European Commission in Brussels in development cooperation. And there I got more and more interested in first, how does this institution, the European Commission, work internally, like departments uh being jealous of each other and all these things that you see in every organization basically. And then um, why do some organizations change and others don't? And at that stage, I got really curious about that, went into consulting because I found that was more practical than being in simply in charge of administering programs. And then um I did a training in organization development, and part of that was coaching, and I did a few um career um strategy programs in the consultancy I was in, and that kind of got me into like into the space between consulting, coaching, HR, and then uh I had a job offer at the European Investment Bank. I was in 2003 as career advisor, which was like a mix between career coach and systemic internal uh um change agent for like to change the career management system, and that was 2003. You remember maybe career management was the antecedent to talent management, and then at a certain stage we went into talent management. And Sylvia, can you make a proposal on talent management? So I worked on that also. And then um um talent management is very much also about leadership development, and I was very much interested in that. So I got more and more into leadership coaching, lead leadership programs, uh, and and a holistic approach to what is good leadership in order to make an organization successful. And that's why I'm today.

Jay Johnson:

That's an awesome story. And uh I, you know, I do find it interesting how many of us share the like, I'm here by accident, but I love being here. So I my my audience may not even know this about me, but I um I am a political science junkie as well. So I studied a lot of political science movements, campaigns, and everything from the communication side. And uh, but I never actually took a look at the international aspect of it. So I I'm curious. I'd I'd love to even just stick on this for half a minute. I'd love to So what was it like with the European Commission? Because you know in the US, you know, when you're looking at some of the political science or anything else, and there's plenty to look at here, even with the two-party system. But when you start looking at something like the European Union or any of those, you've got different countries, different languages, different uh different uh philosophies, different experiential histories that are kind of coming together and engaging with each other in definitely meaningful ways. I've gotten to do training for the European Union and uh a couple of the different commissions. I'll actually be heading to Lithuania to do some training for them uh on a on an EU grant. So um I'm very, very curious what was that experience like in working with or getting a better understanding of leaders from all of these different uh from all of these different cultural backgrounds coming together?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

I love this question. Well, um maybe to start with, I grew up with a very international mindset. Uh my grandmother is actually from St. Petersburg, Russia, and she was um but from a family of of Baltic Germans, huguenots, exactly. So there was like German, French, blood, etc., in it. But she spoke um very fluent Russian and she immigrated to um Germany at like before the the um no at the end of the First Uh World War. And um she was a crazy woman, uh very much uh into like she she basically held court in Berlin, uh knew everyone, etc. And uh she was a very passionate European. She also was a writer. Um her books were very funny, but her journalism was pretty good. And she uh I remember an article by her about um like titled I'm a European. And that was in the 50s, where being a European was not that typical. So I'm very proud of my grandmother, who was already European when others didn't know what that is, really. And so I grew up uh with a very international mindset. My dad also studied um as one of the full first Fulbright students in the US, and then he went to Paris, and we always had people from all over the world visiting and uh conversations at dinner, etc. So our parents basically pushed us to study abroad, um, which I did. So I do my studies, I was in in Switzerland, in the UK, in the United States. And uh so it was for me very clear that I wanted to also have an international career in some in some way. Although ending up with the European Commission was also not planned. I won't go into that story because it would be a longer one. But I I arrived at the European Commission and then I worked on something that was not EU, but it was international, so beyond uh the European Union. And to your question then, in these institutions, you have people, very many people like uh like me who um grew up already interested in doing something in a broader context, in studying um foreign languages and wanting to uh leave their own country to discover the world, etc. So you have um a work environment where people uh are actually quite open-minded and able to converse. At the same time, you do have these cultural differences. So you have um the French culture, which is, I mean, I'm going to go into stereotypes, but there's also truth in it. French culture would be much more top-down hierarchical uh than UK or Scandinavian or German culture today. Um, then there are the um uh the cultural ways of communication. Um German culture, for instance, is quite low context. We sit down in a meeting, a bit maybe like some parts of the US, sit down in a meeting, let's start the meeting. That's not done in Mediterranean countries. So we have to get to know each other so we can uh read each other and take into account how the other people function. I still remember a Spanish colleague making fun of me when I became emotional. And you said, Sylvia, you're not supposed to be emotional, you're a German.

Jay Johnson:

That's funny. I well, I've I I've trained in Germany a number of times, and I was with a colleague who I don't think was prepared for the level of directness, but I love it. Like personally, that is so refreshing because there's you know exactly where you stand. There's no issue with having debate on topics or discussions, and I think it's such a powerful way to navigate some of the learning environments.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Yeah. And it's great at the same time, it has its weaknesses because sometimes, I mean, we are all human beings. So if we don't take into account that there is another person uh across the table who is maybe having a bad day and we didn't even ask how they they are feeling, um, then whatever we're doing uh is taking off on a bad foot. So um like a little bit of that high context, like hello, how are you doing? Um feeling into the person can help indeed.

Jay Johnson:

Absolutely. Well, I I love that I love that experience because and you know, before we kind of shift, and I've got a great way to kind of segue this into some of the topics that we're talking about. You know, from somebody who's from the United States, there was not a huge premium on learning other languages or on travel or anything. I think that's changing in our culture. I think the younger generations have much higher uh needs for exploring and kind of seeking outside of the borders, which is great. But I was brought into sort of an international mindset. I I grew into an international mindset. And I did that from an organization that I belong to called Junior Chamber International. And uh got suspended. So I've now trained in about 40 countries, but I got to travel 27 of those countries through this organization, which is an incredible learning opportunity. One of the things that I found to be really powerful was honestly, in some cases, just sitting back with some humility and really kind of trying to take in and understanding. And you said that so beautifully of like, hey, people are there to learn when they have that international mindset, they have more of this sort of like openness to understanding, to being curious. I think that's such a necessary skill for both leaders and behaviors in a workplace, because in a workplace we're gonna have different cultures. Could you maybe talk for just a moment? What are some of the ways that helped you stay curious in some of those situations where it was more about bringing in an understanding of the different culture or maybe even just getting to know people that maybe had a different perspective? Could you talk to that for just a moment?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Well, it it's the necessity. If you work in this kind of environment, uh whether it's um in an international organization or multi like multinational, like big company, it would be the same. Or if you are in a smaller company and you want to sell something abroad, uh, you will be more successful if you understand uh the subtleties of the other culture or cultures. If you come like bulldozing in, then uh you're not going to be successful as successful. Maybe in the short term, you because you have the power, because your product is fantastic, etc. But uh you will not be able to sustain that success. And so what I learned um maybe with my upbringing already, like it's a good thing to be curious and understand. But uh then also sometimes I didn't understand because yes, I was educated with that curiosity, but it in a German context, like you grew up in Munich, um, with from a northern German uh family, uh northern Germans are in particular quite square. And uh so I was surprised at first to see, like in Brussels at the European Commission, the Italians and French and Spanish people navigating in a very different way. And uh it happened to really um play to my personal ways. I'm more of a creative and and open-minded person, so I loved it, but I had to to learn how to do this because I I was not trained, so to speak, to do it. Um and then it's so like it's it's really a question like I you need to do it in order to be successful. And then um you you simply open your eyes and and listen and learn, and you make mistakes. I mean, I, for instance, I can tell you about one mistake, uh which is cultural, but also simply um a bulldozing question. I was a young manager, he was already in consulting, and I um had a local manager in the project, and uh he had submitted like sent me the draft of the inception report of the pro program, and it was really weak. Um, but rather than finding out what is like what is this problem, uh, what's going on here, I was focusing on that like a bit low context. This report has to be right. And um, I first had a call with him, sent him a mail, and then I flew down to to the location and we worked for a while. And then gradually I found out I'm I'm hammering too much. And it was like short before he stepped out of the program, I really took a step back to understand, oh my God, he needs my support and he needs my personal support. He needs me to listen to him and to give him the feeling that he's not alone because writing is not his strength. Um, and he has problems with one of his uh senior people in the in the program who's not pulling his weight. So, how can I, as the director, help him um like manage that person? All these things. Uh, it's it's a junior manager failure that I had there, but it was also a failing to listen, failing to understand what's really going on, and that is culture. And it's also, and then we're coming really to who's in charge and and smart power. It's not by bulldozing our way through. I mean, I have the power, I can sack him because he's not doing the right job. But what's in it for me to sack him? I need to uh make the project work. So I will use the best of his talents and combine it with the best of someone else's talent and support him where he he can't be so strong.

Jay Johnson:

Such a powerful story because I think that all of us are in different situations where maybe we're uh, you know, we're so focused on the product that we forget about the other context that may have created those conditions and actually approaching that and listening, as you said. And, you know, I really loved what you brought out there in terms of your, you know, that that vulnerability in the story of like, hey, here's where I was at, and this is what I was thinking, and this is how you've shaped and sort of moved to a different perspective. And I think that that's so powerful because our world is is continuing to get even more global. I mean, you and I are in different countries right now, different time zones, having this beautiful conversation. And that's where I want to lead it into your book. So, who's in charge leading with real power and creating an impact in a chaotic world? The world has never been more chaotic. And in your book, you identify kind of like three pillars energy, power, and legacy. I'd love for you to give us a little bit of a give us a little bit of an introduction. Why did why those three pillars? And I'm not gonna ask you to answer the question of who's in charge. I'm gonna encourage the audience to go source that and find that. But let's talk about those three pillars. Why energy, power, and legacy?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Well, thank you. Um the book really comes from my experience um both as uh like already in earlier years, researching power in international relations, and then uh like experiencing and being part of power in um in the corporate world, in international institutions, uh, in consulting, etc. Um, so that is one thing, rethinking power, because very often the way that power is understood is about force and control, and that it's really like taking it in a very limited way. We are lacking the full extent of power if we have that traditional view. So that was power. And then there is energy because um I struggled with my energy, like having more to do and lots to do, so that I wasn't even able to take a breather in between one and the next. And I think most people who work today um in interesting jobs uh have a similar problem. And I saw also then later when I was in HR supporting our leaders and as as a as a leadership coach, that um most senior leaders and also middle managers are suffering from the same.

Jay Johnson:

So like being under immense pressure to deliver, um being passionate to deliver also, and having to find out how they can do not only more with less, but um have an impact and not lose their lives, uh, in the sense of not necessarily dying, but not living a full life, but socially dying, or you know, the the death of the family or uh death of their hobbies, their joy, their love. Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

And that's where then legacy came in, which was like, yes, I I want to sustain myself, I want to have as much energy available as possible. Um, and so how can I re regenerate myself? And how do I understand human energy which is very different from engine energy? And then how do I um how do I have a life that I really want to live? And that's the legacy part. Um because I personally also had um experiences where it came to me, oh my god, if I die today, is this the life that I really wanted to live or is something missing there? And from there I was thinking, okay, so then now how do I make it the life that I really want to live? And that's what I wish for everyone. To not think about that when we are on our deathbed, um, or when we are like 90 years old and too weak to really change anything about it, but to have it as a companion in our life to think, well, if today was my last last day, um how would I feel about my life? And from that perspective, how will I shape my life tomorrow?

Jay Johnson:

So powerful when we when we start thinking about that, like how is my future self going to perceive this? Or you know, what is that gonna be? So I I really love that. All right, there's a lot to unpack there, Dr. Sylvia, and I have so many questions and and thoughts. So now uh let's let's go to the power. Let's start with power, because you you gave a powerful story of hey, I was the manager or I was the junior manager, and I had the authority and the power. And I do think a lot of people sort of misconstrue the the term power. Um and this is coming from uh so uh again, I'm just exploring a bunch of my old past studies, but I loved philosophy. I loved digging into Michel Foucault and uh Friedrich Nietzsche and understanding like the sources of power and how we perceive power. And, you know, we've all heard some of the different terms. Power abhor a vacuum and you know, step into your power. When we think about power, and I love that you've broken that up into sort of like the strong and dominant power versus maybe a little bit more of the soft power, if we were to even think international relations, right? How can we as a manager, what can we look for or what could we be thinking about to really exude that softer side of power, that influence that comes to play?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Yeah. So um I really like using the term smart power, because then people don't conf get confused about that there might be a difference, like an opposition between that strong traditional power, which is about force and control, and then there's the soft power, which is nice, but it doesn't really achieve a lot because it's all about collaboration and sometimes it doesn't work because if we're just nice, I mean, then we can't succeed against these um strong-headed people. And I think it's very important to understand that we can be very powerful um being smart, and that includes, like in my book, I speak about the power of love, which doesn't mean hugs and kisses, it means the power of creativity. So I don't come from fear, uh, and therefore I have to take things from other people because if I don't take it first, they won't take it. And uh so I'm I'm in constant panic mode and I have to oppress in order not to be seen as weak, etc. If I come from love in the sense of creativity, then I will do things because I believe in them, because I um uh I I see that we can create a better outcome. So there is a positive creative force in it, and um it's much more powerful than like being reactive in this sense. And um then SMART uh means also um that for instance that that I can think in terms of systems. Um and SMART, by the way, is an acronym systems, merging, uh authentic, personal, relational, and transformational. So S-M-A-R-T. Um and systemic is really super important when we um look at the world that is today. Like in the past, we could maybe be successful in our careers only knowing our own thing and working in our own little corner. Today, especially as managers, we have to see what's happening left and right, or as as entrepreneurs, we have to see what the market looks like. We have to be more like looking to the future, into the distribution systems, into uh um into the the the the the the customer needs and how they are shaping into the future and all these things. Um so the systems thinking is very important for our power, because power doesn't mean to dominate. Because if I'm just sitting on my power, that is I'm dominating, in the end I don't achieve much. The thing about power is that I do something with it, no. Um and that's like I think there are people who like to sit on the power because they they are motivated really by feeling the most powerful or by accumulating money or something. But I'm I'm not writing and working for these people because um it's difficult for me um to actually uh help them. So I really focus on the people who are passionate, who want to make a difference, who want to um um to really achieve something. So do something with that power.

Jay Johnson:

It's it seems to me, it seems to me that I and I really like this because I think it fits incredibly well with the way that I think about some of the different behaviors is it's almost this balance, right? Like you have to have a balance of being able to shift in the right moment at the right time between, hey, this is a place where I need to exercise a little bit of that hard power, a little bit of that authority, or, you know, hey, uh maybe it's maybe it's uh status, maybe it's title, maybe whatever that is. But then there's other places that we need to shift more towards that sort of softer influence and collaboration. And I really like the idea of smart power because it does give us that space of saying, hey, we're making a choice in what type of power we're trying to exude on another person or in the world or on our workplace or on our career, et cetera. Can you maybe talk for just a brief moment on how do we how do we get better at making the choice of where it's appropriate to maybe lean into some more of that soft power or maybe lean into that hard power to be able to take action with the power that we're given?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Fantastic question. What I can see, and we start started talking about initially about the the chaos in in um in today's world, uh, it's becoming more and more difficult for all of us to be calm and collected and uh make good decisions because like things are flying left, right, and center, um, and it often seems that we're in the middle of a hurricane. And that is why my work with my clients very often is about um like the inner leadership. It's like in the smart power model, it's the A, the authentic personal power. Like how can we be grounded in ourselves, uh, which includes very much the body also, ground in ourselves and our values, um, so that when something happens, we have a solid uh foundation on which to base the decision, first of all. And second, we don't get um overexcited about something because we will not project or we will not make assumptions, or when we make assumptions, we are aware that we are making this assumption. So we are not having a film running, this guy is doing it because they want to kill. No, uh, they are doing something, and what they're doing is not conducive to the outcome we want to achieve. So we have to have a conversation, and if need be, I have to stop this. But I'm not going to take it personal because um maybe he's taking it or they are taking it personal, but I do not need to take it personal. I'm focused on the outcome. I will see the person as a person with their issues and uh dilemmas, etc. But I will not get enraged or um um like into a conflict mode because that's where the what you would call the hard power, um, like the force and control, where it often goes astray, where we we don't only put our foot down, which is good, but we do it uh while hurting someone or while using words that really don't any add anything to the improvement of human society.

Jay Johnson:

We see that a little too often, don't we? So, no, I I I think that's beautifully stated and a lot of great takeaways there. I uh let's shift to the energy question. And you know, this is something that I've I've passionately studied. I would say for at least the last five years, since the dawn of COVID, I have really dedicated a lot of my research, time, and efforts into burnout. In fact, I'm actually launching uh our next iteration of our boot camp this afternoon. So this is like perfect timing. You you bring up energy, and it seems that in our sort of like chaotic world, everything is trying to draw energy. And whether that's social media drawing our energy, whether that's politics, whether that's uh conversations with friends, or you know, you even see uh, especially in the workplace, doing more with less and uh sort of like this this absolute need to run at a thousand kilometers a mile, you know, a thousand kilometers a minute. How do we look at energy maybe differently? Is there is there some things that we can think about in terms of our own energy, our own energy depletion, our own energy renewals? What are some of your thoughts on that?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Well, first of all, the the speed and being um often in the in the control of our um gadgets is very energy draining. So the constant running, and I've I've been there myself, and sometimes I'm still there when I'm getting not only I have to do a lot, but I'm getting overexcited because I'm passionate about it, and then I'm my my mind is going like at a thousand miles per hour.

Jay Johnson:

Uh and that's I see you, I feel you on that one.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

I know that that's a lot of fun, but it's energetically it's not very efficient. So um it's very wholesome to have some practices to bring our nervous system down to a healthy level from time to time because the world is kind of uh pushing us to run. So we have to have a practice to um to calm down from time to time, and then we uh we can do pretty good. I mean, that's what what I do myself, and I see that that works because the world is fast. And it's good to be able to do fast, but in order to like we do not have to be fast all the time. I mean, um, a man of mine, he he he uses the phrase slow down to speed up. And I I challenge him once I like slow down to speed up, but then we are again too much speeding up. How about slow down to slow down? Um, because uh slowing down in this hyperactive world is a value in itself. And then we can we can sprint when it's needed, but we don't have to have a constant um a thousand miles per hour tempo. No, when when it's needed. It's like I'll give you that example. My my younger daughter, she played soccer for many years, and I saw her in the field and she wasn't always running. And first I thought, well, she's a bit lazy, but then it occurred to me she's smart because she runs when she has to run.

Jay Johnson:

Serving.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

And I think that's a very good image for us in any sport. So when it serves to run, then we should run, but not all the time.

Jay Johnson:

I love to slow ourselves down, you know, and that's such a great analogy, too, because you never see one person just running back and forth with no purpose in any sport. They do. They ex- they they use their explosive power when they need to, they take that conservation approach when they're sort of when they have that moment. I that's a great analogy. I never actually thought of that. So that's that's beautifully stated. When we're thinking about energy, and and this is something that I have found to be found to be true in in the burnout research that we've doing, is burnout is actually not about the amount of work that we're doing. Burnout is much more about how we feel about the work, the quality of the work, the purpose of the work, or whether or not somebody is just dumping work on our desk, that resentment that we may have is actually one of the contributing factors that depletes our energy. And that frustration, that isolation, that resentment can just, I mean, just bleed out our energy. Do you have any suggestions or thoughts when it comes to, you know, in leadership, whether you're at the top of the chart, and I got into entrepreneurship because I thought I'm not gonna have a boss. I love being independent. And then I realized that every client is a boss and every worker is a boss, right?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

And we are our own boss, very, very severe boss.

Jay Johnson:

So we we all have these different aspects where maybe we are feeling a little resentment or frustration or isolation. How can a good leader take a step back from that and really kind of rethink well, what am I doing with this energy? What am I doing with this space? And how is this serving me? Do you have any suggestions or thoughts for those leaders and entrepreneurs that may find themselves feeling that uh energy depletion from resentment or from that emotional sort of that emotional degradation?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Yeah, very good, very good. Um the emotional part is something that we can really control when we are aware of it. So that for us humans, there are actually four main parts of energy, which is our physical energy, the emotional energy, the mental energy, and the spiritual energy. Uh, then there are a few extras, but these like it's good to start with these four. So the the physical, most of us of us know about like eat well, sleep, uh uh, hydrate, do some sports, etc. So I won't talk about that. But the emotional is really, really important. And it's about uh, for instance, being aware of what is going on inside me. So one of our company doctors once joked to me and said, Well, everyone here says they are irritated. But they don't have any other emotions, like they they they can't pinpoint what it is. So the first start is actually, what's going on? It's like, first of all, realizing I'm having an emotion here because many people are not aware. They're just like they get a headache or something, or they they they they get tired, they or they should start screaming at someone, mostly at their cat or their wife or their children or something. Yeah, but it's like what is actually going on? And then uh like the this very simple simplified approach is to learn that we can pause and choose. So our reaction is it never has to be a reaction, it can be a choice. And that will make us much more successful human beings and leaders when we have that ability to feel, to be aware, and uh to pause and to choose. And let me say like one very important thing there again is the body, because uh we feel our emotions only because we have a body, otherwise we wouldn't feel them. So to to allow ourselves to feel into our body and uh to know that this is a super precious instrument to uh to feel what's going on and to use that. That's really, really, really helpful. The other part which is like linked to emotional, but it's actually mental, is our um ability to focus. And there we come to the gadgets again, so not to be like multitasking, which by the way doesn't exist. Actually, it's a very like it's a layered um um like task hopping, actually, when we think we are multitasking, and it's it creates a huge fatigue. Um so that's uh that that's what I would say, like really think about uh how you can be more conscious of your feelings so that they don't run you, but you can make choices and also not only choices on your behavior, but what is going on here? And do I have to interpret it that way or do I have a choice? I give you an example of my own life. I once um wanted to have a conversation with my director about a program I was responsible for, and they had uh postponed the start, and I was getting really um like frustrated. I was frustrated about it, and he said, Well, um, it's not going to happen until um three months or something. And that was on Friday evening, and I stormed out of the office more or less, and with this feeling, poor me, poor me, this is a horrible organization, and now I'm going to have a horrible weekend. And then two hours later, I was thinking, Sylvia, now, do you want to have a horrible weekend? Uh no, it's actually not worth it. So, what perspective can I take on this and what action can I take to change this? So I felt like I do not have to make myself a victim of a horrible organization. I, Sylvia, have the power to propose a meeting with my director on Monday to say, let's talk about that, because I believe it's really important that we start earlier and I take the responsibility for that. And then let's see. And with that feeling, I was okay, I I'm in charge, by the way, who's in charge? I'm in charge. Uh, and I will take responsibility because afterwards people might say, Well, Sylvia, it was your fault. You're wrong. But that taking responsibility for what was going on really helped me to feel good about it. So I had a great weekend. Monday we had a talk. Um, and luckily he agreed with me. But even if he hadn't agreed, I would have felt better because I took responsibility and not like, oh my God, they're so bad, they don't understand me, etc.

Jay Johnson:

But I I love that because there's so much, there's so much depth there. And and audience, if you didn't hear it, first of all, naming the emotion, getting an understanding, being aware of it and saying, all right, this is where I'm at. But I love how you transitioned out of like the victim mentality of woe is me to like, no, actually, I have power, I have agency, I can step into this and create a different pathway. And how powerful, because so often we get stuck in our emotions and we just ruminate on it. So being able to kind of take that step back and say, no, I'm I'm gonna own my weekend, I'm gonna have a great time. I'm choosing to do something about this because I I do believe it's the action. You know, burnout is just an early warning system. It's telling us something's off. And when we make the choice to take action, that's where we start to see the relief of those symptoms or that relief of the frustration or anything else, like, okay, I've got a plan, I'm going forward. So, in speaking of going forward, and I know that we're we're nearly out of time here, but I think it's important to bring some awareness, this legacy concept that is that forward thinking, like, how am I going to be remembered? What's the purpose that I'm serving? Can you talk to us just a little bit about that pillar, legacy?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Yeah. So um, what I've seen very often, um, especially as a as a coach to senior leaders, is that someone's a very successful manager, leader. And when they talk then privately to me, there's a lot that they're not proud of or not happy about. Either they are they have lost like the connection with their family, uh, they do don't do the things that they love anymore, or they are um they've become a person that they don't want to be. And um I've seen that uh so often that that was one reason why I said, well, there is this part. If I speak to leaders, what could help them? There's the energy, there's understanding power, and then there's also give um a meaning to your life. So that at the end of the day uh or a few days, you will be at peace with yourself. But if you do that now, you're at peace and thriving already today. And then there's a personal story. I had uh breast cancer in 2010 now, that was a like wake-up call for me to say, Hey Sylvia, uh, death is not a theory. It actually happens. Um and then uh it was also through a very interesting experience I had in my acting training. Uh was later on, where we did uh a eulogy exercise, which is also in the book. Uh, and we did it um not only in writing, but speaking. And I connected really with the things that I want to do in my life, that I still want to do in my life, and realized that's what I'm passionate about, but I have not yet done these things. So I better get going. And um again, uh the end of our lives is not a theory, it kind of happens to all of us. So if we bring that, when we bring that into our consciousness, it's not being morose to say, oh, talking about dead all the time, but to make death death a friendly companion that actually makes us, helps us focus on our on what's good in our life and what we want to create in our life and what we want to be remembered for, because this legacy is not about having a building named after our name uh or making lots of money. Um, we can also be proud of that. But then also having a reason. Why does that make me proud? Could be a very good reason. Uh, but what is my why behind that? And then I think for many people, what is sometimes um comes into focus only very late uh is how will other people remember me? And to to put that in focus earlier on, I think is so precious for all of us.

Jay Johnson:

That I love that because we I do believe that we as a as a species, we we often avoid conversations about death because it's uncomfortable, there's uncertainty, there's a finality to it. But you know, the the and I'm troubling sourcing the the author, and I'm uh it'll come to me before we finish. If not, I'll put it into show notes. But the concept of dying before we die and really kind of exploring like what does that mean? What does my existence mean? How does that go? That can be such a powerful motivator for us to put in perspective the things that we need to prioritize. Because if if we just follow every social media thread or anything else, we're probably not going to be really proud of that at the end of our days. But when we do think about the impact and the legacy that we are going to leave behind, that can really generate some powerful positive behaviors and maybe help us avoid some of those ones that are holding us back. So I really appreciate that.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Absolutely. And then it links back to purpose because a lot of the work that I do and that that that drives me is connected to purpose. So if I have that red thread, I don't need to, or I I will not want to check Facebook and the cat videos all the time because there's no purpose in that. So I will be more the person who who will um create something myself rather than being led and driven by random things that are happening out there because I have a purpose.

Jay Johnson:

Which probably helps you maintain energy and probably helps you step into your power. So I can see that these three things are really powerfully related to each other. Dr. Sylvia, this has been an incredible conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time. If our audience wanted to get in touch with you, how would they do so?

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Very simple. Uh, I'm on LinkedIn, so my name is Sylvia Rodolibina, and then uh through my website also, which is smartpowerweb uh smartpowermethod.com.

Jay Johnson:

Awesome. And we'll make sure that's in the show notes. So this is again, I really appreciate the work that you're doing. It it obviously we share some passion and some alignment on this. So thank you for bringing your perspective, experience, and stories to the talentforge. I really appreciate you.

Dr. Sylvia Rohde-Liebenau:

Well, thank you, Jay. It was a wonderful conversation. I really loved it.

Jay Johnson:

I'll look forward to future ones. And uh thank you, audience, for tuning into this episode of the Talent Forge, where together we are shaping workforce behaviors.

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Jay Johnson, CEO and Co-Founder of Behavioral Elements

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