Leadership, exit strategy & building high-impact teams - Lessons from Stephan Burow

What does it really take to lead a private equity-backed business through growth, exit, and transformation while staying true to your leadership style?

In this episode, Stephan Burow, CFO at Lintbells, shares his journey from Unilever to high-growth scaleups like Gousto, and now to leading finance, tech, and people at a purpose-driven pet wellness company.

We dive into:

🧠 The mindset shift required to thrive as a PE-backed CFO

⏱  Why pace, 80/20 thinking, and intentional time management are make-or-break

🤝 How Stephan builds high-performance, people-first cultures

🧩 Secrets to handling exits and investor pressure

🐾 Why purpose matters

Whether you’re an aspiring CFO, in the middle of a scaleup journey, or leading through a private equity transaction, this episode is packed with insights and best of all - refreshing honesty.

🎧 Listen now and tell us: What’s the hardest part of leading in a PE-backed environment?

Chapters

00:00 – Intro & Background

02:00 – From Unilever to Scaleups

06:00 – Why Pace & Impact Matter

10:00 – Gusto, Growth & the 80/20 Rule

14:00 – Transitioning to CFO in PE

20:00 – Managing Investors & Exit Process

26:00 – AI, Finance & the Future

30:00 – Leadership, Mentorship & Culture

38:00 – Broadening the CFO Role

45:00 – Risks, Cybersecurity & What Keeps Him Up

48:30 – Legacy, Purpose & Final Advice

Transcript

Stephan (00:00)
everything stops with you, the buck stops with you and certainly when you deal with private equity and exit you certainly feel that.

I'm Stephan Burow and I'm the CFO of Lintbells and we're in the space of improving the lives of pets.

Neil (00:15)
The common conversation we have with people looking to get to a CFA role and in particular break into private equity backed businesses as well is you must have private equity experience to be a private equity CFA.

Stephan (00:28)
You don't have a lot of time to do anything lately. So you need to be able to very quickly understand the business, P &L, how does it work, what are the ratios, what are the levers, etc. You need understand your customer base, need to understand your supplier base. So you need to be able to very, very quickly, ideally within 90 days, no more than that, have a view of that to then understand, where do you need to go after, what is a more burning platform and what is working.

Neil (00:53)
What's been the biggest challenge in making that transition for you?

Stephan (01:01)
for a lot of accountants, shall we call them now. The comfort blanket is knowing that one plus one equals two, not a different number. And therefore they uncomfortable when they need to a number that they can't quite reconcile. You're gonna go to your chief people officer and ask for a lot of stuff that you've never asked for before. And I can't really tell you what it's about.

Neil (01:23)
challenging thing you've been asked by an investor. feel like I want to ask you if you have a pet. I don't know why but I've been thinking of a wire while you're

Stephan (01:28)
Thank you.

Yeah,

I mean it would be unacceptable if I didn't.

Neil (01:42)
It's actually afternoon. I should have had another coffee clearly to get started. But thanks for coming in. As a starting point, can you just tell us who you are and what you do?

Stephan (01:54)
Sure. So I'm Stephan Burow and I'm the CFO of Lindbells and we're in the space of improving the lives of pets. So that's what I do.

Neil (02:04)
Fantastic. And tell us a bit about how you, how did you end up becoming a CFO?

Stephan (02:09)
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure I was always destined for it, to be honest with you. So I went to boarding school in Scotland. So that's what took me to the UK. And then after that, wasn't quite sure what I was going to do at uni. And I was going to go down the route of science. And my family were suggesting that might be very interesting, but maybe not that interesting. And so I ended up doing a business degree. And then I was very lucky that I ended up on the uni for grad scheme.

in finance and that kind of took on a journey of its own. And so, yeah, I pursued that and then I felt, know, obviously, math mathematics helps and you get to see lots of the business. And so then I started to think maybe this is the right thing for me and just pursued my career and always sought out opportunities and then then moved on. So yeah, so that's kind of it.

Neil (02:58)
And you moved obviously from a big sort of global consumer organisation like Unilever to move into more sort of startup scale up organisations. How did that come about?

Stephan (03:11)
Yeah, yeah, great, great question. So I think Unilever is a great grounding space to learn actually soft skills more than anything. I mean, you get some great accounting experience and hard skills, but the soft skills of how do you interact with people, all that stuff is great. It's obviously a very large organization, know, 120,000 people at the time or whatever. And I think at a certain point in time, I just felt

You know, you're just a cog in a very, very big machine and you know, can work for another 10 years and another 10 years and then you become VP and SVP. And, you know, and I was just feeling a little bit, I don't want to say disillusioned, but I felt I'd seen enough and I wanted to change and I want to do something differently. want to do something different. And so, you know, I did Unilever for years and then did tobacco and then went back to Unilever for a few more years. And so after 10 years of that big corporate experience.

I felt, as I said, I want to do something a little bit more, not meaningful, but feel like, yeah, get into different space. And at the same time, I friends in the startup scale up world. And so I tried to look for some sort of bridge from that big corporate into a startup scale up place. And I was very lucky to join Dunhumbi, which was and is part of Tesco. And they just acquired two businesses, one in the US and one in Germany.

And they needed someone that was kind of able to stitch them into the Dunhamby fold and ultimately the Tesco fold, which was a very interesting experience. And so that was my first foray into that. Did that for about a year and half. And then Dave Lewis, who was at Unilever at the time, became Tesco CEO. He changed the org quite a bit. A lot of people got made redundant and I was like, well, I probably want to do something else now.

And ideally I wanted to go further down the route of startups. But I couldn't quite find the right thing. And I ended up at Virgin Media and within about four weeks I would call and it was, hey, have you heard of Crystal? And I was like, no idea what they do. And then needless to say, about three or four months later, I ended up starting there for what was a five year journey of quite a bit of growth. Yeah. And then from there I went to where I am now. So, yeah.

Neil (05:30)
Did that, did it kind of fulfill your need to kind of make a difference, have more of an impact? Did you find that, you know, moving from the big corporate to that, it did it?

Stephan (05:39)
did work. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, I'm a very, I value pace. Right. So I'm quite naturally impatient. And I mean, much to the dismay of anyone that knows me, I always want to move quite quickly. get, you know, even my morning commute, we talked about it, very impatient. And so I think for me, it's the pace is just different in a small organization, you know, you decide something today, tomorrow, let's enact by the end of the week, you see a change. Whereas in the big corporates naturally, it

is just a slower process. so for me, as much as I thought it was about having more impact, it was also in the end about you just see a quicker change in the organization as a result of reaction. So it's a bit of both. And I certainly did see that for sure in Gustav, for sure in NetBelts, every day, pretty much.

Neil (06:28)
When you're hiring now, can you help, can you identify that trait in people?

Stephan (06:35)
Great question. So I'll talk a little bit about people maybe as a sidestep. So certainly what I always thought about when I look for a new job that there needed to be three things that were true. So one, I needed to value the culture, which is for me, do I like to beer with a person you know, would I actually enjoy that? Sounds quite enough, but that's important to me. The second one is growth, I value growth, right? It's easier to have a growing panel, more money to spend rather than...

having to squeeze costs out so it makes for more fun environment. And the third one is the product. Can I relate with the product at least to some extent? And I think when you interview people, getting into the motivation for why they want to join your company beyond just the job is the right job for me or whatever helps to unpick some of that. But it's certainly tricky because there lots of people that are in big corporates that want the startup gig.

I'm not sure that everybody really, you the reality is quite different to what they have in their mind, you know, then really it's okay, you know, what have you done about this thing that you talked about yesterday? Not, you know, two weeks on. So, half the time I'm successful, half the time probably not. Yeah.

Neil (07:42)
Yeah,

like you say, it's incredibly difficult thing to identify because lots of people want it. They want to make them but until you see them in action in the environment, it's very difficult to tell.

Stephan (07:53)
Yeah, and it's about can they give specific examples? How do they think about it? Can they think on their feet? Can they effectively prioritize and it's all about to have they got real examples, you know, it's very easy to talk conceptually, theoretically, but have you done this before? And also, what do they do in their private life, maybe if they don't have a professional experience example. So

Neil (08:16)
And so Gusto was kind of, it was hyper growth, wasn't it? It was a bit of a rocket ship at one point in time as well. what did it, in that period, what did you learn?

Stephan (08:29)
Yeah, great. I Gusta was a transformative experience for me. I have nothing bad to say about it. I learned loads. I joined in 2018. The business at the time was already doubling and then COVID happened. And obviously we're all at home. We need to eat. I mean, the business just flew. I think management was really well equipped to do right decisions, but it would be a lie if I didn't say that COVID obviously tremendously helped.

conflation of those things was really great. I think what I learned is really this coming back to pace, The greatest impact is if you move at pace and the quicker you can affect change the better. And the other one is that the real application of 80-20 as in not everything has to be 100 % perfect for us to add value to our organization and being very intentional with.

Where do you need to get it absolutely right? And where actually is 80-20 good enough or even 50-50 or whatever it is, right across financial decisions, hiring decisions, setup of teams, anything really. So those, think, are the two big things that I took away from that experience. mean, there are loads, but those are the biggest ones, know, pace and 80-20 and being very intentional with what you spend your time on and what is it, Timo, our founder, also German.

He always preached focus on the thing that you are best placed to add value to and everything else someone else really should do, you know, the things that I'm really great at. And that's what I should focus on everything else the team should do other people should do. But and if you focus on that, you can really get a great deal done in the nicest sense.

Rory (10:09)
Do you?

Neil (10:10)
Look back on your career and think that having worked in Unilever as a training ground was was it still a great start for you in terms of, you know, lots of people talk about best in class processes, systems, and then being able to translate that into the startup environment. Do think it was still the right foundation?

Stephan (10:28)
I think so. Absolutely. Absolutely. in fact, when I look at both Gusto as well as Lindbiltz where I'm today, most of the senior management are people that have that duality of big corporate experience. They know what a good process looks like, what best in class looks like, etc. And the combination of having got the fast-paced experience. And I think certainly at Lindbiltz we are quite intentional with

seeking those people out and not necessarily being a training ground in the nice sense either as I knew you have to have done it before before you come to us. What I've seen in other places not by way of personal working there, but through friends is that, you know, startups that only have the entrepreneurial, you know, straight from uni into a startup, they great drive, great ambition, very, very smart people, but the lack of what does good look like sometimes then hampers the organizational growth. So some balance certainly helps. Yeah. Yeah.

Neil (11:27)
And then you've sort of moved in on from from GUSTA into number one finance role. Tell us about that transition. And I guess, at that point, the buck stops with you fully.

Stephan (11:41)
Yeah, happily. So I go one back again to Gusto, I was very lucky that I joined under a CFO, Sally, who gave me great freedom. She actually moved to another role within the organization, I then worked for Timo a little bit directly. And then we had Jim come in who to set us up for potentially a bigger exit or whatever that didn't happen. but I was given great degree of freedom and learning. And so the step up from a, you know,

being a trusted partner to the senior leadership team of that wasn't that great. But it is certainly a step up. mean, as you said, everything stops with you, the buck stops with you. And certainly when you deal with private equity and exits, and we might talk about that in a second, you certainly feel that. I do think it comes back to focusing on knowing what you're good at and knowing what you're not good at and how do you solve for the things that maybe you're not so good at. you know, my value, I think it all comes back to people. I mean,

We talk about financial capital, but it all starts with the human capital for me and the people you have. so whenever I've sought out a job, I've always focused on, as I said, culture and product and growth. And the culture part is, can I see myself working with you? Are we clear on what I bring to the table? I'm also very clear as to what I don't bring to the table. And so as I was going through the process for a number of opportunities and I was speaking to Fiona, the CEO of the current place I work in,

I was very open with this is what I'll bring, which is, you know, a great drive, great pace, thinking about strategy in the future and all of that. And I can build a great team. If you need the perfect accountant that, you know, is clued up about every accounting standard, I'm not, that's not going to me. And she was very happy with that exchange, that contract almost. And so that gave me, I guess, confidence from day one that, you know, I'm the right person for the job.

But yeah, was a step up and you try and close any gaps you have as quickly as possible.

Neil (13:44)
The common conversation we have with people looking to get to a CFO role or in particular break into private equity backed businesses as well is a lot of people get very frustrated with you must have private equity experience to be a private equity CFO. Have this conversation every week with different people. What's your take on it?

Stephan (14:10)
Yeah, I mean, it is a bit like the job behind the bar that you're not getting because you haven't worked in a bar before. So it is a bit like that. I would say that nothing prepares you, you know, you can read all the theoretical literature that he lied, you know, four corners of a CFO and all that paperwork, but nothing really prepares you for what it then means because set of stakeholders like environment is different, the stakeholders are different, the deals are different, etc.

So there will always be a learning curve. therefore, having seen that before is tremendously helpful. Obviously, I had not to that extent. But I think if you come back to do the people that you are working with or working for, is there that trust that you're the right person? And are you looking for that? So is the primary angle into the job not one of have you got this experience, but hey, this is everything else that I bring. And therefore, are we happy that that bit I can somehow close? And that's probably the better route in.

rather than getting stuck with, you you haven't got the experience, yes or no, and therefore if the answer is no, you're out. I think that's a helpful angle to potentially get a root in. And in reality, you know, there lots of advisors, there lots of people to help you, there are people making money out of helping you in the process too. So that is there. But yeah, is, and you need a bit of luck as well. It's clearly not that straightforward.

Neil (15:35)
What's been the biggest challenge in making that transition for you?

Stephan (15:40)
I think that particularly in private equity, and it depends who the PE houses, of course, but you know, You don't have a lot of time to do anything. So, you need to be able to very quickly understand the business of PNL, you know, how does it work? What are the ratios? What are the levers, etc. You need to very quickly understand the organisation, you know, who are the

people that sandbag in their budget, who are the people that have a good team and not so good team, you need to understand your customer base, you need to understand your supplier base. So you need to be able to very, very quickly, ideally within, well, as quickly as possible, certainly 90 days, no more than that, have a view of that to then understand, where do you need to go after? What is a more burning platform and what is working? I think that's the biggest realisation maybe that

that I would convey to someone that's stepping into that job. Really think about everything that pertains to the business. You are in charge of value creation across the whole organization, not just what is the P &L and three financial statements. So much more hangs together with that.

Neil (16:47)
Yeah. And I think you talked about the pace and that you don't get much time to do anything. that kind of a bit that's quite hard for some finance people, the 80-20 decision-making, being able to kind of provide an answer, even if it's not the perfect answer to the pH, I guess is really important. They kind of need to know that you've got your finger on the pulse and you can gauge something quite quickly for them.

Stephan (17:08)
Yeah, yeah. And I have lots of conversations with even people in my team around this because I think, Rightly or wrongly, for a lot of accountants, shall we call them now, the comfort blanket is knowing that one plus one equals two, not a different number. And therefore, they are uncomfortable when they need to provide a number that they can't quite reconcile. And I always try and convey that

anything that's a historic actual number, we should have, you we should know the facts. Anything that is there to aid future decision making, ultimately, you know, whatever number I tell you is going to be wrong, because I can't predict the future. And so my guide is always the moment we talk about budgeting or forecasting or planning for the future directional is most likely going to be good enough. And it's just a muscle you have to you have to practice. mean, even today, have conversations with my conversations morning around what's the shape of the plan and

and she asked me some questions and you know I can give her the 60 minute answer or can give her the one week answer and the difference is probably not going to make a difference to the decision in the nicest sense.

Neil (18:17)
Tell us, and again, the other thing we get asked a lot about is the exit process. Obviously you were fortunate enough to be involved in a recent private equity exit and sale process in a time where there hasn't been many of those in the last sort 12, 24 months actually. But what can you tell us about that experience?

Stephan (18:41)
Yeah, I won't tell you how long it really took to get the deal done when we really started. Yeah, it's a fascinating experience. I'm thankful to some of the experience at Gusto because what certainly helped with Timo being ex-banker back in the day is his awareness of you need to get your house in order as far as numbers and data is concerned. so certainly anyone that is thinking about an exit in whatever environment.

you need a certain runtime prep time to get your house in order. so, you know, we were in a decent shape, but there was certainly some fixing to do with regards to certain data points or volume metrics or this or that or the other. And that just takes time. And there's a lot of it, you know, you, you, meet various parties, they come with information request list, you know, it's 250 questions, every question could take

you 10 minutes or an hour. you do the quick maths and you're like, this could take a very long time and sifting through that and come back to 80 20, what is good enough to give where do we need to go deep is, is important. So I think the first one is you get your house in order early and don't, yeah, don't, don't think you can rush it, you really can't rush it. So we did that. I think the other thing that was an experience or learning or something I would convey is that

There are of parties in the mix, right? So I don't just mean who you might sell the company to, but you might have a founder, you might have other shareholders, you have your tax advisors, your legal advisors, the bankers, you have your C-suite, you have your CEO, you have your own opinion. And so managing everyone's opinion and understanding ultimately which ones in the nicest sense matter and which ones might be right, but don't matter.

That is that is also a bit of an art because you do get to a point where you don't have enough hours in the day to appease everyone. And you then need to focus on what what actually will make a difference here and what doesn't. And so that's another learning. Just I guess reading, yeah, understanding who who ultimately makes the calls and what really matters and what what what is a helpful opinion but doesn't. Yeah.

Neil (20:57)
What's the hardest thing about it?

Stephan (21:03)
I think, I would say two things. The first one is you need to be very good at very quickly assessing what are all the requirements in terms of managing stakeholders, data provision, etc. the workload, and being able to disseminate that to who is helping you with what in the most efficient and effective manner so that you get through the most things in the shortest amount of time. That's really hard sometimes.

And I think the other one is you need to do that in a way where most of the work are not in the loop. You know, so you're going to go to your chief people officer and ask for a lot of stuff that you've never asked for before. And I can't really tell you what it's about. Probably going to come for a few days. So that's the other challenge with that. Those two, if you can do that, then you can get through it. Yeah.

Neil (21:55)
And from the sort of investor angle or board angle, what's the most challenging thing you've been asked by an investor that you've...

Stephan (22:05)
Yeah, I'll answer that slightly differently, which is what I think is important is to align with the people that are selling. So your shareholders and the bankers and maybe the chair of the board and whatever is what really is the value proposition that you're putting in front of someone. And if you're going after a potential 30 companies that might acquire you, is it the same for all 30 companies? Or is it slightly different? And therefore, are we going to have literally two different pitch decks? Or are we trying to be one thing for everyone, in which case you might

really not sell the business at all because you're trying to be, you're not specific to what they might be looking for. So the articulation of what the value proposition is, for me is very important and needs to happen very, very early on because otherwise you're still tweaking materials and what you say and how you position yourself when you're already halfway through with someone. And then it's very difficult to course correct or tweak the story. So, and if...

The reason I say that, if you get that right, then the questions from the investors are somewhat easier to answer because they're aligned with what you've been prepping for for quite some time rather than, you're asking me about how I fit into this market or this niche when that's not really what I do. I'm just telling you that's what I do so that you might be interested in buying the company. So that becomes quite hard. I think otherwise, have been no, it's usually not difficult questions because ideally you,

you understand quite early on how well the fit what the fit is, know, between them and us. And then the rest is just volume of questions and getting to diligence, right. And as I said before, if you give yourself some time to get ready, ideally any red flags are issued out beforehand, you know, you don't you don't want to get into process and know that there's some things that haven't been resolved yet, accounting wise or legal otherwise, that's just not that's just not no go. So

Neil (24:00)
And we talked a little bit about people. Obviously we're moving into an era of AI and technology and all these great things that that's kind of unlocking. Is that something you've started to see influencing the business and your role as a CFO?

Stephan (24:02)
Peace.

Yeah, great question. obviously, you know, some people might see it as a direct opportunity to drive costs down. So you know, how do you deploy AI in the way that we answer call center calls, for example, or opportunities like that. I think for me personally, it's not necessarily about cost reduction, actually, it's about how do you get the people in an organisation to add to work on more value adding

work. And so it's not about I'm going to take experts out of the organization, but they can spend their time doing more interesting and valuable stuff. We've certainly been exploring both the how can we leverage technology to do customer care tasks, whatever, as well as deploying things like Microsoft Copilot, etc. to help people be more effective.

And I think with varying success, I mean, the other reality is that any AI company will obviously sell their product as the best thing under the planet and the reality is not quite that yet. But I think it's amazing what how much AI can can help us every day. Absolutely. mean, I probably use various tools every day to just give me a little bit of extra knowledge or help me find something quicker or whatever. So for sure.

Neil (25:32)
Yeah, so we asked this question earlier, actually, but are we heading towards a world where we can expect a very, very small finance function, particularly in some of the smaller businesses, you might only have two, three people in the future.

Stephan (25:46)
Great question. I always, if I was really, I guess, black and white, I would divide finance into two, right? So you have financial accounting control, which is very much anything that happened in the past to today. And that's compliance, that's statutory accounts, etc. And then you have the forward looking commercial business partnering and strategic finance or call it you financial planning. And I think certainly in the the former accounting and control, I'm sure that technology can

do a lot for sure. I think the bit that is forward looking, because it is so much more about relationships and understanding the business and when you say something, what do you mean versus when you say something, what do you mean? I think there the opportunities a little bit less because it is still more aligned on the human element of decision making. But yes, certainly accounting and control those things, technology will make it and already is.

Neil (26:41)
And away from that then back onto people and leadership. You obviously worked for some great leaders on your journey so far. What are the best pieces of advice you've had from leaders and bosses in the past that you've taken forward today?

Stephan (27:01)
Yeah, so I won't regurgitate what I said already around, you know, 80 20 and that. I think a couple of other things are one, really be very intentional with your time. So again, someone once said to me that and I say this to my team, so they might laugh if they hear this, but I always talk about outlook is your performance calendar. So the phrase that we use that cluster, which is when you look at next week or the week after the next four weeks.

when are you at your best in any given day or morning, afternoon, or on a Monday or whatever, and how do you allocate the things you need to do against when are you performing at your best? And so that you're really optimizing the time and you have very little of unintentional activity. Now in reality, not nine o'clock till six o'clock is optimized, but at least the intent and the thinking behind it might yield a better outcome, a bit more productivity. And when you have 160 people or 200 people, it multiplies. So there's a bit of that.

And I think the other one, and this is again in the realm of becoming a CFO is, and I've seen this with more junior people, know, junior people want to demonstrate the knowledge by writing you a very, very long email, very technical, like there's lots of information, but it's probably not as simple to understand as I might want it. And certainly not possible for me to share it with someone more senior or my peers. And so just keep it simple, you know, do all the work and the art is how do you distill it into a simple message and ultimately what.

what's the call to action here? What do need to do? So those are probably the things. 80-20 pace, intentionality and keeping things very, very simple. So, yeah.

Neil (28:41)
Brilliant. Do you enjoy leading team? It sounds like it's a big thing for you. And what what comes where does that come from for you? So the enjoyment out of leading people?

Stephan (28:50)
Yeah, I believe in I mean, the word sounds again, a bit enough, but I believe in subservient leadership. So I certainly feel I'm one of the team not, you know, their boss, so to speak, we all do different things, you know, I have a certain remit to what I do. But we all have remits and we all come together to deliver for the greater good for the business. And I really value giving back to people. I value sharing my experience, I value seeing someone

grow and helping them overcome maybe their self imposed limitations as to what they can do because most of the time it's people's own limitations that stop them not external factors. And so that I really enjoy and I just enjoy being part of a team. And so by virtue of my role, I happen to be the leader of that team. But I think it comes from a very humble subservient starting point that I that I enjoy that.

Neil (29:44)
What's your secret to maintaining engaged teams and keeping them with you on the journey through tough things?

Stephan (29:54)
Yeah, great, great question. I think it's about keeping it real for lack of a better word, which is, I think it's important to call out what we see. if we are going through a, I don't want to say an exit now, you know, through a difficult software implementation, or some things are just hard at the moment, then let's get around the room and let's call it out. hard. And let's focus then on what can we do about it? What is our control to change?

I think people for the most part just want to feel heard, you know, a half the time in my experience, they don't necessarily even want the solution, they just want to feel heard. And that's certainly what I, I always try and listen and give people the time like, how are you doing? Tell me generally, let's talk about it. And then equally though, focusing on what can we do to help? What is in our control and following up with that? So I think

we can all improve the lives of the people that we work with. And so if you commit and you do an action that changes their experience, that is very, very helpful. And that's all. And as long as people feel coming back to the culture and the product, if they feel connected to the purpose and what we do here, and you have a boss that you value, then for the most part, that maintains engagement. Most people don't leave a company, they leave their line manager. So yeah, that's what I would say. Just be real, open, and honest.

Neil (31:18)
Is it hard to balance obviously, sort of, and there are obviously all different flavors and shades of private equity these days and styles within that. Is it hard balancing the quest for value creation, growth, potentially selling a business with being very people-centric and focused?

Stephan (31:40)
Yes and no. Yes and no. You know, it would be wrong to suggest that ultimately it is about driving shareholder value and that is expressed in pound or dollar signs. Yeah, for sure. I think though, if you can convey that there'll always be more things that we can do. And if you therefore can convey that we will do the best we can with the resources we have, and we will recognize and reward people against the work they do, then that's okay. And if

ultimately means the organization changes and some people join or some people leave and therefore the capacity we have changes. It doesn't really matter as long as you just are very clear on what are we going to do with the people that we do have or the financial, you know, the budgets we have or it's not necessarily about people, right? You know, this is how much money or people we have, this is we're to do. Are we happy with that? Great. And then we move. And if that envelope shifts, that's okay as well. And I think again, if people feel

If you can have a real conversation about it and people feel connected to the purpose and it just about works. I think without that, without a purpose or without decent leadership, it becomes very, very difficult very quickly for sure.

Neil (32:52)
We've talked a lot there now about other people and how you lead people and things, but how do you look after yourself in what is obviously a very stressful role as the leader of a growing, scaling private equity?

Stephan (33:05)
business?

Great question. I mean, this would I'll answer this. I'll answer this, but I'm going to go on a tangent. I think the advice I would give, certainly my daughter when she grows up is you should probably do something you really enjoy doing because that helps. And so in my case, yeah, the job is stressful. It's demanding, but I enjoy the job as well. And so I'm not fighting an inherent my god, it is too stressful. I don't

like this, I'd want to get out of here. so, and therefore, it is easier to then manage it. But I'm also flexible with my diaries to come back to intentionality. You know, if I need to do a I'm going to make it up a Friday morning swim that is from eight to nine or 830 to 930. I'm going to take that time and do that for myself because I know that's that gets the best out of me for the rest of the day. And it comes back to culture of the cultural organizations one where

We all understand that life and work can't really be 100 % separated usually. And you have an acceptance and it makes it easier to manage those those demands. That said, yeah, sometimes you have some troughs and it's fine. And sometimes you have some very stressful days. But I think that's also part of the that's part of the equation. I mean, you get paid a great deal of money to do that. So

Rory (34:20)
Did you even?

Neil (34:21)
Also in part that advice through the culture, because certainly I remember earlier in my career, I didn't feel like I could do that. You kind of felt like you had to be there, you had to do this, you were in a certain time in the office. That's changed a bit now, obviously now for us as business owners and for you as a leader, but does that transcend the team or is it still something that...

Stephan (34:46)
No, I certainly, I certainly encourage the team to take the space they need to perform at their best. And certainly I'm not someone that, you know, I don't need you to tell me every time you're going to leave a bit earlier, come in a bit later, what I'm going to, what I'm going to spend time on is what are the things you want to achieve this quarter? And let's get really tight on that really smart. I know that sounds again, a bit, you know, repetitive, but smart objectives, you know, specific measurable, is it in your control?

Neil (34:51)
Tootoo

Stephan (35:17)
And if we're agreed on those, then quite frankly, how you go about achieving those, that is really up to you. And obviously, there's a day-to-day BAU element to your job, which I trust gets done. But if you're able to deliver all these things that I think are needed in a fraction of the time, mean, good for you in the nicest sense. So certainly, I try and imbue the same in our place of work, for sure.

Neil (35:42)
And your role, this seems to be quite a common theme of people that we speak to as well, your role has expanded beyond just the finance remit in recent times. Tell us about that and how you balance that.

Stephan (35:57)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think the motivation here is not necessarily about CFO having a greater control over expenditure. It's not that. It's also about organizational agility and the fact how many, you know, what's the right org structure in terms of reports for the CEO and all of those things and how do you make decisions quicker? So that was part of the context to the decision to move, in my case, technology and people into me.

I mean, technology is very close. Well, actually both technology and people are close to my heart. So I have a natural interest in it. I want to get involved in the conversation. I already said that everything starts and ends with people in a nicer sense. technology, as we spoke about a moment ago, is an ever greater enabler to productivity and change and also, I guess, profitability at the end. And so I'm on this journey of getting ever closer to

you know, what is the technology strategy here? What's the people strategy here? And how do we all bring it together to then ultimately drive shareholder value again, for sure.

Neil (37:00)
Yeah. You've enjoyed that challenge of taking on more. Is that something that's inherent to you now and the future? You know, you kind of want to continue to evolve what you do and how you contribute.

Stephan (37:14)
Absolutely. I think the the acid test for me is always whether you know, this may sound a bit funny now, but ideally, you know, what I do today becomes redundant in a sense, because the people below me have developed the skills to, to do the job and step up into my role at some point in the future so that there isn't a single point of failure if something happens to me. And so I think I was only able to broaden my broaden my scope into technology and people.

because the finance function, you know, I don't want to say it's completely self sufficient, but it's able to stand on its own two feet without my necessarily daily, you know, tweaking and fiddling and whatever. mean, obviously I'm very heavily involved and have opinions and I set goals and objectives and where do you want to go? But you know, I can't be here or I can't be on holidays for a week and the thing doesn't fall apart. And so for me, again, it's about how do I learn and grow and yeah, in the future for sure. I'd like to think that.

there's more opportunity to do that.

Neil (38:14)
Do think you'd always stay in finance?

Rory (38:17)
Thanks for watching!

Stephan (38:18)
Yeah, interesting question. I thought about this. I'm clearly not a hardcore accountant. This doesn't excite me that much. And so I'm more on the relationship forward thinking, get stuff done spectrum. Therefore, there could be root into doing MD or another more broader role. Equally, like finance because in my role, have oversight over the whole organization. And obviously, there's a part of the numbers.

the numbers part of the job that I still enjoy. I don't know, I'm very happy with where I am. I equally I could see myself maybe doing a more broad organization role in the future. Yeah, but that's some time off, I'm sure.

Neil (38:59)
Have you, you've also had some great mentors over the time. you, a lot of people we speak to say it's important to have an actual mentor in getting to top jobs, etc. Is that something that's featured for you?

Stephan (39:16)
Yeah,

so if again, in my time at Gusto, Jim, the CFO at the time, who's still there, was kind enough to connect me with a couple of people and it has been very helpful because it's someone that they've done the job. And so they can give you the conceptual knowledge of these are some of things you want to consider. And they can give you some very hands on support on hey, I'm facing this challenge. And they can be like, well, this is this is where you're going wrong. Or have you considered this or that or the other so

for what is an arguably relatively short amount of time you need to invest, I think you get a lot back. So I would definitely encourage anyone to seek that out. And I certainly always, think everyone that has worked for me knows if they ever need me or I can be of help, they can come to me and I try to give back in that sense.

Neil (40:07)
And this maybe comes a little bit into legacy, kind of what do you when you look back on your career in the future, the kind of 10 years time you what do you kind of want to look back and say that you you did or you achieved?

Stephan (40:22)
Yeah, that's funny. I don't think about that too much, I will be honest. I think, you know, two things maybe if I think about it now is one, I'd like to think that the people that have worked for me have grown their career with me and therefore I've been able to have more choice and options as to what they were doing next. And I'd like to think that when I look back that has happened. So that's one. And then the other one is through the companies that have worked for have we made a

positive difference. There's certainly been a theme and most of my roles and companies that's been that's been a theme, you know, we're doing something that arguably leaves the planet in a better place. mean, again, that sounds a bit sounds a bit naff. But you know, I care for that. So that's about it. Yeah.

Neil (41:07)
It kind of forms into that intrinsic thing of like, why do you get out of bed every morning? What drives you though, doesn't it? And it feels like that's, that purpose is really important to you as well.

Stephan (41:16)
Absolutely, absolutely. And it comes back to why, you know, yes, the job is stressful. But at the beginning or at the end of the day, I still reflect on well, you know, I'm, you I'm, you know, I'm working class, but which I mean, I need to work to make some money. And therefore, if I am going to spend my time at work, I'm doing it in a place that you know, I enjoy the people I enjoy the product, I think we're doing good. And the people that are part of my team or the wider organization where we're getting

better and better equipped and therefore we have we're creating a better future for them. And that helps to offset the the stress or how you feel about it for sure 100%. And I think the older you get, the more that matters. You know, certainly when I was coming on the uni, I'll be honest that mattered a bit less clearly. get good job earn a bit of money and you know, whereas now yeah, now it certainly is more important for sure.

Neil (42:07)
Are you, we've obviously been through some really challenging times in the last five years and the, well, hopefully now we've got some big political things out the way last year. There's a bit more clarity on direction of travel or what the future might look like. Are you heading into this year optimistic?

Rory (42:27)
Thank

Stephan (42:28)
Yeah, I mean, I think so. So when I think about what we do, so as I said, we're in the business of improving the lives of pets, the TAM, so target addressable market is still very, very big. it is one of the most resilient categories there is, you know, in some cases, people spend on their pet before they spend on the children. So that makes it rather resilient. And so from a macro context, in terms of industry, very positive.

Secondly, we devalue for products in the IP, intellectual property. This is very difficult to do what we do if you don't know the IP. so competitively, then we don't really have any concerns that someone would overnight catch up with us on that front. That said, there'll always be something that we can't predict. know, COVID, nobody knew COVID was coming four weeks before it happened. And so then it's about how do you feel about the people around you and the team that surrounds you? do you feel they can weather whatever change and

adversity comes your way. And I feel very positive about that. So whether I look at, know, my finance team or the legal team or technology or HR, I look across the C-suite or our investors too, actually, we're very dedicated, bright and hardworking bunch of individuals. And so that fields fills you with confidence that there will be things that will throw us off course or attempt to throw us off course, and we'll be okay with managing that situation. yeah, personally, very

very optimistic and grateful, I guess, to some extent as well.

Neil (44:02)
Obviously, you've got technology now as well, as we've discussed. Cybersecurity threat seems to be more more, you know, it's going to be an increasing risk for businesses and that's your problem, I guess, in your current role. How do you address that?

Stephan (44:21)
I should start by saying that we, you know, have a very, or the business rather, it's not me, right? The business has a very competent CTO under me. So with, you know, vast experience. so in fact, we had a conversation this morning about penetration testing, believe it or not. And so we are, we're very mindful of the risks. I think some start, you know, some startups are very aware, some startups are not. And so at least from an awareness point of view, this is something we need to

be mindful of and fight every day, we're certainly on that. But again, something might come our way that we can't prepare for and therefore just how do we respond. Certainly, when you think about disaster recovery scenarios, the one you should just plan for what if someone infiltrates your systems, because that usually tests everything, every part of your business, right? It's certainly something we talk about reasonably frequently, how we're feeling, especially given that

you know, 60 % of our business is direct consumers, or lots of individual personal details, a daily operation that ships 1000s and 1000s of parcels out. So it's if something goes wrong, it very quickly goes very wrong. So yeah, that is my problem. But thankfully, you have a good CTO and a good team to help. Yeah.

Neil (45:39)
Are there other things that this year sort of, it's a horrible cheesy phrase isn't it, but keeps you awake at night?

Stephan (45:47)
Yeah, I think probably two things. So again, I keep talking about human capital and for all the, you for my intent to drive an engaged culture and for all me wanting to be real and listening, I'm very mindful that things happen in people's lives, so they might take a different decision. And so I'm always thinking about and hoping for the fact that the people that we have stay in the business in the way they are and they continue to, you know,

push the boat in the same direction, but people might choose to leave and that always creates challenges. So that's one. And I think the other one is that yes, we have a bit maybe a bit more political certainty, but you know, cost inflation and the supply chain is increasing. So you have cost headwinds and just how do you, how do you mitigate those, you know, because you can't necessarily always pass everything onto the, to the consumer. So those are the two bigger things that I think about. Yeah.

Neil (46:43)
I feel like I wanted to ask you if you have a pet. I don't know why, but I've been thinking it for a while.

Stephan (46:48)
Yeah, I it would be unacceptable if I didn't. I'm joking. do. Yeah, I do have a Jack Russell. Long suffering. We do hire people that don't have pets. But it is sometimes funny when you go through the interview process and people almost express a distaste or dislike and I am starting to question what do know what we do here? And so no, have a Jack Russell. Yeah, well, we

Neil (47:11)
that comes in and they're allergic to dogs. Well you

can't really leave out that but if you come in and say I really don't like pets.

Stephan (47:20)
Yeah,

especially as we have, you know, organization. Yeah.

Neil (47:23)
the purpose of the office.

Is there anything really unusual about you that, you know, people don't, or is there anything about you that people, you know, wouldn't assume that's probably a bit different from what people expect? Well, I didn't pick up a Scottish accent at all, considering you said you went to boarding school in Scotland.

Stephan (47:48)
Only

the German one. So I think what happens is, I think I'm very direct, you know, and I'm probably more direct than I like to believe. And so usually when people first meet me there, certainly, you know, that people feel a bit, sometimes a bit of a fresh breath of fresh air. And then they realize I'm actually quite, you know, quite nice and quite

amenable and, that sort of stuff. so apart from that, no, I'm a pretty straight shooter. I tell you what I think I value your opinion. I'm really interested in what you bring to the table genuinely. And then and then we go from there. There's very little hidden, hidden agenda with me. So so no, I'm not I'm not sure there would be that, you know.

Neil (48:29)
Brilliant. Well, I think, yeah, we've covered quite a bit today, but is there anything else important to note that you think we haven't covered today?

Stephan (48:44)
I think in closing, would just say that, you know, for those listeners that are, you know, maybe not even at the step of Next Door to CFO, but early on, I think, you know, in the early stages of your career, you definitely do want various exposures to various things and build the base of the pyramid, so to speak, you know, the bigger the base, the higher the pyramid.

At some point though, you then want to flip into and I think this is where it then comes into your next job as a CFO at a PE company, focusing on what are you really great at? is arguably, I don't want say it's too late, but you know, trying to address all the blind spots and weaknesses is not going to get the best out of you. Focus on what you're great at, find a company that values those things and just be mindful of how you solve for the things you're not so good at. that, that would be my counsel. You know, when you're younger, build the pyramid, build the base.

you're a bit more seasoned, just find a company that values what you're really good at and lean into that. You know, whether it's people or whatever it is, I think going against it, that makes it very difficult, because you're always competing against people that naturally are going to have a greater interest or energy behind what they do versus what you do. that's probably what I'd say in closing. Super.

Neil (50:01)
Stephan, thank you so much for coming Thank you very much. Cheers.

Stephan (50:04)
Thank you. Cheers.