Ep. 57 | Redefining Value with Waste - Sofía Fasquelle

Jack Moran sits down with Sofia Fasquelle, co-founder of SimpleAF, a studio in Panama that designs sustainable accessories from recycled materials. Sofia shares the backstory of how her team turned discarded material into functional fashion items. The conversation dives into the challenges of prototyping, scaling responsibly, and navigating regional innovation gaps. She highlights how intuition and cultural awareness shaped their brand and operational decisions. This episode offers insight for entrepreneurs looking to build purpose-driven businesses from the ground up.

Sofía Fasquelle

SimpleAF

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Welcome to Shakin’ Hands, where we provide the platform for entrepreneurs and thought leaders to share their stories in order to hopefully influence others to get out of the rat race and chase their own dreams. If you have any recommendations for guests or questions that you want to be asked, please don't hesitate to reach out. Anyways, if you enjoy the podcast, please like, comment, subscribe and share in order to keep the podcast growing. Otherwise, I'm your host, Jack Moran and this is Shakin’ Hands. If you're looking for business mentorship, I have a place where you can get feedback on your unique personal development and business growth challenges. Over the last year, I've brought together a group of impact driven thought leaders where we meet every single day to discuss psychology, communication, mindset, and business case studies. We have people who have made millions of dollars, lost millions of dollars, Harvard MBAs and new entrepreneurs like you and I. Entrepreneurship can be lonely. So if you're looking for a support system, please follow the link in the description below for some more information. How long have you been in Panama for? In 2003. How'd you end up coming here? My dad's job. So when I was growing up, my dad made the most for a living. So we went to a country. He made them all. We moved to the next country, made them all. We moved to the next country. And for some reason, Panama just happened to be, like, growing the economy. And there were all these things being made, and it was like such a cool place that they were like, okay, let's make a second mall and then let's make a hotel and let's make blah, blah. And then we just kind of stayed here. But I think that, I loved having lived in so many different countries because I think not only has it made me open minded, but I also feel that it's made me like, sort of adaptable to change because I before I moved back to Panama. So I lived here in Panama, I did from seventh grade to graduating high school. Then I went to study in Scad, Savannah College of Art and design. Then I lived and worked for a year in L.A. for my OpEd, which is a year that you get as an exchange to as a foreign student, not exchange. And, then I moved to Costa Rica, where I started working in advertising, which is what I studied. And, I remember when I told everyone that I was moving back to Panama, they were like, oh my God, I can't believe you're like, uprooting your life and you're starting from scratch. And I was like, no, no, no, that's normal. Like, people move all the time and they. And then I realized like, wow, maybe it isn't that normal that I'm so okay with, like literally selling everything I own and starting from scratch and starting from zero. And then I like a couple of weeks later because the phones spy on us. There was an article that said, like the two most stressful things in a person's life is divorce and moving. And I was like, okay, because that was stressful for me. You know, I was like, one check. The other one having it. Yeah. But, yeah. So that's what brought us to Panama. And then both of my parents were retired here in Panama. So they both live here, and then me and my two brothers, which are actually the co-founders of, simply f with me. They as well went to study to the States. My younger brother, Scott and then my older brother, Purdue. And then we all came back at some point, my little brother, actually, because of the pandemic. So he was doing his opt in Miami. He was, building the hotel chain. Selena, I don't know if you guys have heard of. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, well, poor Selena, but he was, building it and, but, you know, like everyone in the pandemic, you couldn't go out. Everything was very depressing. And he just decided to come back and, here we were only allowed to leave about an hour a day, depending on, like, the last number of your or of your ID. And we used to walk around the park, like every day. And that's when he started telling me about the idea of simply f. So this was actually his, college thesis. He studied industrial design, and he wanted to make, the world's most sustainable product. And in his investigation for his thesis, he realized that, the biggest contaminant was the making of the raw material. So the making of the textile, not the making of the actual product. And, given that we have a surplus of textile waste in the world, I mean, we've read all the articles of the mountains of clothing. He was like, why don't I just fix 80% from the get go? And I upcycle material? So he was telling me about the idea, and at the time I was still working full time, even though remotely. So I had moved back from Costa Rica, but I was still working with the agency that I was in Costa Rica. And, I was like, you know what? I'm going to help my little brother. I'm going to open his Instagram. I'm going to take pictures, I'm going to upload them. And then we were invited to participate in a program, that's called like Incubation Program and City of Knowledge. And we were like, okay, let's like, let's give it a go. We have an idea. Let's see what happens. And in that process, we turned it from a B2C to a B2B. So we realized that the biggest like makers of that textile waste were companies, and they were also the ones who were requiring like industrial amounts of products. So we were like, okay, so they have an issue with textile waste. They don't know what to do with it. They have to upgrade their uniforms every couple of years. If you work with food, you have to do it by law. I think every year or every year and a half. So they have textile ways that every time they print a thousand billboards and then the campaign is over, what do they do with that? And then they also have, a need for products. So events, let's say they give out tote bags, let's say at the end of the year they give out, a gift. It's usually like a textile product. We decided that we were going to, solve those two problems in one go. And, and our first client was actually our dream client. It was a funny story because we were, I can mention brands, right? Yeah. Of course. Okay. Whatever you want. Okay, okay. Because, part of the incubation process, they were like, okay, where do you see yourself in three years? Where do you see yourself in five years? What are your dream brands? And me and Alejandro are huge fans of Adidas. And we went to, beach cleaning and Alejandro, my younger brother and co-founder, he got paired up with, global sustainability director for Adidas. And then he just like, told him about the idea. And he was like, okay, I love the idea of, like, make give me a prototype. And we worked at this time, we were literally in my mom's house and my older brother's an X room with a sewing machine and a lot of dreams. And, so we made the prototypes. We made five prototypes. Four of them were horrible, but one of them was really good, which just so happened to be the, the one where we used his actual clothing. So we got, like, clothing from different people. And then he got one shirt that was his. So we made him a laptop sleep, and he was like, he literally told us like, these four. No, make me more of these. And, he gave us a chance. That was our first client. And after that, it was just it's just been kind of word of mouth, which is really, I think, the biggest advantage of Panama. I mean, it's such a cosmopolitan country that not only can you get like a variety of opinions because there's people from so many different cultures, so many different places, but nobody's too far away. Like, if you want, you want to talk to the CEO of Nike, you're five people away from that. So from there, it's just kind of been, an avalanche of word of mouth and people coming to us and people asking us to work on different products and, and just trying to figure out what that, we call it, kawaii attire. So that like, underlining product is going to be. So are you guys manufacturing the products and the people are white labeling those products? Yeah. So originally we wanted to be a white label. So what we wanted to be was a sustainable design studio that manufactures, products made from recycled or upcycled materials. And for the most part, we are still that. But it's also happened that people really like our brand. So they've asked us to collaborate. So they're like, no, no, no, I want it to be branded by you. So imagine when, like you work at these big companies and one year they give you this generic, tumbler. And then the next day they give you like a Stanley tumbler. So that's kind of what it's been happening. Now. There's see value in our own brand that they kind of want us to use their brand. And that has made us sort of rethink B2C and see if we, we want to go and do a brand of our own. The thing is, B2C is very complicated. It's I mean, anybody who is starting to sell something from scratch knows that it's extremely competitive, extremely hard. And, the effort that I would make to sell one backpack is the same that I make to sell a thousand to a company. So, why would I not go down that route? But, Yeah, for the most part, I would say we are a collaboration. And then there's like a 30% where we're white label, where no one would know that we made it unless they look it in the inside tag. And then we do very specific, like drops from our own brand, like B2C. Gotcha. A lot of people are, I've heard many times, and this might be untrue, but a lot of people say like, there isn't much manufacturing in Panama. Why is that? Well, there isn't almost any manufacturing in Panama. I would say a couple of reasons. The first reason, and the most important reason is we are one of the highest, minimum wages in the region. So when you think of manufacturing, you don't want labor to be your biggest cost. So that is the way old manufacturing is happening. And that's why we have all these issues with, what's going on with labor laws in Bangladesh and in India and, and all these places where people are just not getting a good salary or under terrible conditions. And then the second one is the more developed a country is, the more it leaves manufacturing goes into services. So Panama is a service country. We used to be a manufacturing country thinking like the 70s or the 80s. Given that the canal was there, a lot of the stuff just came out and there were factories all around it. But nowadays it's, it's not very likely. So the reason why we're doing it, the vision, eventually when we grow regionally, we're going to have to move the manufacturing from Panama because it's just not, economically feasible. We're probably going to have to do it in Honduras or what the Mala still paying ethical wages, but relative to the country. But the reason why we do it here is because right now we're sort of learning and inventing this process. So we need to be able to control like the totality of the manufacturing line. And, we did not hire people who knew how to sew. We have trained everyone from scratch. So not only are we teaching people how to sew, but we're teaching them how to sew our way. And so that has been an advantage. Also, we, mostly teach women in disadvantaged positions. So these are women that either have kids with disabilities who can have like a full time job or, women who have survived domestic violence or refugees. And, what we do is that we have around 30 to 35 women that we've trained and they rotate and depending on what the project is and how many days they want to work. And, very risky model, but it's worked out so far because that, is sort of another KPI that the companies can do. So they're recycling my textile waste, they're giving me a sustainable product, and I'm having a social and local impact. So it's kind of three budgets in one. Yeah. And you mentioned a super important concept, which I think a lot of early entrepreneurs don't understand. And they neglect they want to outsource pieces of the process immediately. Or you talked about understanding that process and having the control over it before outsourcing that process. Why do you think that's important? Well, I think, having worked in advertising in my I always call it my past life because although I've only been we've only been doing this for three years, it has absorbed my entire life. So in my past life, when I used to work in advertising, I, I always thought that the best branding is a good product. Like I can do an amazing campaign that is super fun and makes everybody want to try a product, but if it's a bad product, they're going to try it once and they're not going to try it again. So the focus has to be the product. And in order to have a good product, you need to understand how it's made, how the people are going to use it. So for the most part, we would develop all the, all of the prototypes. So we also are in charge of the design and that has given us a lot of information because, I mean, we have a joke with my with my, co-founder Alejandro, that it always takes him three prototypes to get to the final one because he needs to, like, try it out and see how it's sold. And we take a lot of, like, we always think about the limitations that the women who manufacture it have into the design, and that is something that very few people consider. Also, we have to consider the end of life of the product because we are a circular company. So from a big product, we know we can upcycle it to a million project product. And from that medium product we know we can upcycle it to a smaller product. So we take all those things into, into account and also to understand like your cost and your and your margins, like where is most of the money going? Something very, interesting that happened to us. So we have this love brand in, in Europe that does what we do, but B2C. So they upcycled billboards and they, and they make, products that they sell around the world. It's an amazing brand and it's great. So, we had always seen videos of their factories and, we had only seen the part where they, like, get the billboards and they cut the billboards, and we had never seen the manufacturing facility part. So not that long ago they decided to do a live tour of the factory, and we were like, okay, we're going to finally see it. Turns out they outsource it. So we did not learn anything and we were like, I can't believe they outsource it. And I think that they started making it themselves. And once they understood like 100% of what it needs to, how it needs to happen, how you need to make it. And also first you're going to try out 100 products, and then maybe after five years, you're going to realize, you know what? These are the ten that work. These are the ten that I've made perfect. And then maybe those you can outsource. But at the beginning, like, you definitely have to be involved in every step of the process. Also something that, I've always believed in as I'm not going to ask you to the people I work with, me, I'm not going to ask you to do something that I'm not willing to do myself. So I need to understand how it's done. I don't so and yet I speak sewing. Like I can tell you theoretically how to make a bag. Maybe I can do it in a machine. But I can theoretically tell you, because I, I would like to be involved in every step of the process for a company. If you're making the case for them, that they should start upcycling and utilizing sustainable materials to, manufacture their products, what are typically the objections that they see you would see from a company, that would push back on that idea? And then what? How do you get over that objection? What does that long term value proposition of utilizing a sustainable product? Well, the biggest, perception that we're fighting against is, the idea that if something is recycled, it's not good quality. And, I think that there's a couple of reasons for that. I mean, I'm, I'm sure there are other companies in the world that do similar things to what we're doing. I have not seen anyone in the region do specifically what we do. So they tend to because when you think of something that's sustainable and you think of something that is, circular, that means it has to be, slowly done and it has to be very meticulous, and it has to be like handmade, which, ironically, is the way luxury brands make it. Well, not all of them, but some luxury brands make their product. So there's this idea that, like, everything has to be very slow and handmade. So I think nobody has really taken the risk to try to do it industrially like we did, at least in the region. And because of that, it has made us sort of rethink a lot of industrial processes. So we do a lot of the same things that they do in traditional manufacturing. The only difference is that, the textile that is used in a t shirt, there's a reason why it's not used in a bag was because it's thinner, because it's more easily ready. So when you think about bags, you think about people putting them on the floor. You think about people wearing them and the strap having to not like not tearing at all. If we're walking around with it all day. So there is a reason behind each textile used for each thing. And we are grabbing something that was meant for one thing and using for another. So you just have to do a little trick. So and sometimes we put a couple of layers sometimes, you know, we use something for the lining that is thicker than what we use in the bag. So we've had to like compensate in in little ways. But I think that people usually think, oh, it's going to be bad quality. It's going to tear. And that is another, another reason why. Going back to my first point of focusing on the product, we when we started this, the problem we were trying to solve wasn't necessarily, oh, how can I make, a product made from recycled materials is how can I make a good product? And then, oh, I'm going to use recycled materials, like at the end of the day, there's no bigger compliment for somebody to give me than to grab one of my backpacks and tell me this doesn't look recycled, because it shouldn't be because I don't want to be an alternative. I want to be a replacement. And if I want to replace traditional manufacturing, I have to be as good as if a bad was made from scratch with the intended textile. So you haven't always wanted to be an entrepreneur, right? You. This is. You know, I was somebody asked me this not long ago. I, I have maybe not had the thought, but for some reason, every single job I've had has been in a startup, like, has been. And I've been surrounded by entrepreneurs like the branding agency. And I worked in Costa Rica. I started with them when we were four people sharing an office with, the mother of a friend of the mothers, of one of the co-founders. And now it's, one of the biggest branding agencies in Costa Rica. They have like 20 employees or in different countries. And I think that I've always kind of absorbed that. And and maybe I saw myself as like, oh, I'm, I'm good at helping people, like, reach their dreams because I've always I considered myself an executer, although I, I'm a big idea person and I've always thought, like, anyone can have a good idea, that's not the value, the values of you turn that good idea and you like actually make it happen. So I always had this problem with like, oh, that person is a dreamer. They have their ideas. It's like, okay, cool. What? Where are the what has manifested from those ideas? So I think I always saw myself, and I think I fell a little bit in that dynamic with my, with my brother and co-founder, where it was like, oh, I'm helping his dream and I'm, I'm making his dream. But, honestly, it's been it's been really like a partnership because we've realized that although obviously having grown up together, we have a lot of similarities. Those similarities are more like in terms of values and morals, but personality wise and our skill set, we are opposites. Like he is good in what I'm lacking and I am lacking. And when he's good, so we have really been able to complement each other. And I think the most important thing is that we admire each other. So therefore, although I can have opinions in his department and he can have opinions and mine, he respects my final word and I respect his final word. What are the unique attributes of your personality that are valuable to a business? I think that, I well, given this particular line of business, it's been kind of interesting because I, it's very hard for me to ask for help. Like, I usually I'm like, I'm not going to bother anyone. I'm just going to kind of figure it out. And it's been kind of interesting having to collaborate and having to do things with other people and take their opinions into account. Think that's been that kind of, an interesting adjustment. But I think that because I have always been kind of an observer, right now, I tend to be able to sort of think ahead and, sort of be a couple of steps ahead whenever I have like a meeting or something. And it's really funny because whenever we have a meeting, Alejandro says that I'm a witch, something, Panamanian folklore, because he's like, how did you know that? And I think it's just intuition of always having, like, observed people and always been curious about human behavior, where I'm like, but he said this, and I was like, yeah, well, that's not what he meant. What he meant. Did you see this? Did you see this, that you think that you realize? And then two weeks later it's like, oh, you were right. And, I think I bring a lot of that also. Like I said, just I'm not going to ask you to do something that I'm not willing to do myself. So it's been I've been told a lot that I'm, I lead by example. And I think that's very important because I come from, like my parents. They come from a generation where you're you're supposed to be afraid of management. Like, how are you supposed to lead if they're not afraid of you? And that has been the opposite of my experience. I have always been very, very careful of the girls that work for me and always try to respect their boundaries. And just having done that, they stay extra. They have to. They are super committed and they do whatever they need to do. And I think that's because of men and not necessarily because they're like, oh, I love the company. I think it's like, no, you know what? I want to help Sofia. I want to help Alejandro. They are like, I believe in them. And I think that that's been, I think is probably the biggest challenge for every entrepreneur, because at the beginning, the brand is your personality. Yeah. Like that's what it is. And then how do you make it continue, be that when you're growing and there's other people taking on those roles. So for example, right now we're doing Conservatorium how do you say that in English? Consulting. Consulting. Yeah. Well, it was a similar we were doing, a consulting, where we're building our brand culture. So how to, how to turn our personalities into company principles, into a company non-negotiables into how people should speak to each other and how people should treat each other and and what all of that, employee journey will be. Culture. What are the realities of a startup that someone have that has an experience, a startup? What? Know? I think the funniest thing that people have told me is, I want to be an entrepreneur because I want to have more time. You're going to have less time. You're going to have no time. Hopefully, you have really good friends that have known you since you were little, because you're not going to see them for months. That is if especially if you like what you do, you're going to be thinking. If you're not thinking about it, you're doing it. And if you're not doing it, you're dreaming about it. That is just like, a reality. And also, I think people are very here in Panama, people are very afraid to sort of share their ideas because they think like, oh, someone's going to steal my idea. Someone's going to. And I'm not saying that's not going to happen or that couldn't happen. I'm sure it could. But I think the more we have shared our ideas and the more like transparent we've been, the better they've gotten because we've gotten like amazing feedback and amazing suggestions because at the end of the day, if you're thinking of something that is a crazy idea, odds are probably other people thought about it as well. Like there is nothing that it's like, oh, I'm no one's ever thought of this. Probably a bunch of people have thought about it, and then somebody else can give you a different perspective on how to make that idea, better. You said that you had worked in Costa Rica, before coming to Panama to do business. And I'm seeing in the United States a lot of investment moving from the US to Costa Rica. Yet I see Panama as being having the conditions or a lot better conditions for investment. What is the difference between Costa Rica versus Panama and why would you invest in Panama over Costa Rica? Or maybe you would say that the Costa Rica is actually better? While. I don't well, I think Panama as an investor Panama is better because it just has more, more opportunities in order to be able to, like, move money in and out of the country than Costa Rica. Costa Rica is a social democrat government. So there is like some limitations to what you can do and move around. But I think that Costa Rica has done an amazing job. And I realized this once I started living there of, marketing themselves as a go to country for Americans and Europeans. And they do that with, infrastructure in their beaches. So if you compare the touristy parts of Costa Rica with the touristy parts in Panama, like Panama is and in diapers like, Costa Rica has an entire infrastructure for tourism that you would feel like you are in any first world country and also the language. So over there in public school, you learn English here you have to go to a private school to know English. So there is like there's also that's also the reason why there's a lot of call centers over there. And there's a lot of, actually, stem companies. So one, most of my clients Rica, where like Thermo Fisher and Kimberly-Clark, it was a lot of like, companies that had to deal with, medicine because also the education level is a lot, lot higher than in Panama. But yeah, and I wouldn't expect that. I know, but, quality of life and I think entrepreneurial spirit and like a startup culture, I think Panama is more developed in Costa Rica because they're getting good jobs, they're graduating with all the skill sets, and they're working for global companies here. There isn't that many opportunities. So most people are kind of going towards, towards starting something new. And also I think that we get a lot of like influence and globalization because we're in such a like hot spot. But, yes, I would, I would, I would root for Panama. Yeah. No. Before I would say like maybe starting Costa Rica, but now that I've sort of been in this world and I've spoken to enough people to to see that they're thinking globally and not just locally, because that's another thing. Like a lot of people were there that I talked to about, their companies and what they wanted to start. It was always like, oh, my dream is to be all over the country here. They say, my dream is to be all over the world. It's just like a different level. Where do you think the opportunities lie in Panama? Like where is there a lot of opportunity for entrepreneurs? Well, probably being biased, but probably in, in sustainability. Something that happened to us is that when we were first coming up with, with the business model, we thought that we were going to have to add a very huge step of education. So it's like, not only am I sending you a backpack, I have to explain to you why you need to start paying five times as much for this backpack instead of just getting it in China like you were doing before, and that wasn't the case at all. Every company here, there's a lot of headquarters here in Panama from a lot of businesses around the world. They already have sustainability departments. They already have, plans to, to get to, sustainable Development goals. So right now it's becoming sort of an obligation for companies to take that into consideration. So there is a lot, a lot of market there. And yeah, I don't want to say software because that's what that's the idea of like a startup. It's like, oh, just build an app and then sell it. Boring. There's something, there's boring, very boring, except for everyone to a cliche, but I think, we're seeing a lot of more manufacturing. We're seeing a lot more of people making things and physical things. So I think that's been that's been interesting and, Yeah, for sure. Sustainability. You said there's a lot of global companies that are headquartered in Panama. What are some like well recognized companies that are headquartered in Panama that some, most people wouldn't have expected a bigger. I'm trying to think of like my my clients. Well, Adidas has there's a lot of like brands that have their regional headquarters here. So although maybe they don't, manufacture here, they have like their human resource here. So that's, also, I think it's because, Panama has a very high quality of life. So if you're going to bring your executive from Netherlands to, Central America, it better be Panama. Right? So I think, like, maybe that's where where it goes. I can't think of any on the top of my head, but what has been the most difficult challenge that you've encountered as an entrepreneur? The most difficult challenge of it encountered as an entrepreneur, I think probably, Sort of people's small, mindless mindlessness. How do you say that small mindedness, towards, sustainability and where it can go. So, like I said, the perception is it's a person in their house making upcycled bags and selling them. If people are going to buy it because it has a cute story behind it, but they're just going to buy it once. So I, I think we have had to like, sort of fight with that perception. A lot. But we have proven that it is possible and it is possible to be sort of, profitable because then that's another reason a lot of people think that we are, foundation. Once we explain what we do, the fact that we help with, like we work with women, they're like, okay, so you're a foundation. It's like, no, I'm a private company, and I'm growing every year, and I'm doing things the right way and that can happen. Of course, there's a lot of, still, we're a very long way from being equal in terms of like, gender roles. So there's been a little bit of that and also like a little bit of ageism, cause here in Panama, most of the time we've had clients that are like people from a very older generation who have been doing this for 50 years, and they're like, why should I now change the way that I do things? So there's been a little bit of that, but I think it's mostly it's mostly just the fact that there's before us used to be a very like artisanal thing, and now we're taking it as a very scalable thing. And people don't believe it's possible. What's your definition of success? I think my definition of success personally is, I measure it based on the problems that people have around me. So what I mean by that is and this is something that I live day to day. So, for example, one of the girls that started working with us, she came, she lives like five hours away from here. And in four years, she wasn't able to save the $20 that I would take her to go back. And that was her problem when she started working with us. And she was like, you know, I haven't seen my family in four years. I don't have $20. And, now, two years later, she came up to me and she was like, you know, I have a fridge that I bought from my mom. Do you know where I could get a card to take the fridge? And I was like, okay, let's figure it out. So if I'm doing better and I'm bringing all these people with me, my success is based on what problems do they have? Are their problems getting dumber and dumber? That makes me happier. So what is the single most important piece of advice that you would give to entrepreneurs that you've learned through your entrepreneurial journey? I'm gonna say something very ironic, given my past life, but I think creativity is a means to an end. I think that people tend to, tend to think like, oh, I have to be creative, I have to innovate. I have to do something that no one's ever thought of. And it sometimes creativity is the vehicle, but the destination should be a clear, concise and helpful thing. So if you have a good product, if you've validated it, if people want it, it doesn't have to be groundbreaking. It just has to be everything else. That's such an operational perspective. That's hilarious. Yeah. The rate like the opposite in a company. So I'm like innovate, innovate innovation. No, but I need more people like you is ways to innovate. There is ways to be like creative and be innovative with an idea that is like simple. Sometimes I feel like especially in this world, like everyone's always talking about like, okay, but what's different but what's different? And it's like, maybe what's different. There's one little thing like, I'm taking something that is already possible, and then I'm twisting it, and then that is what's going to give me like the sort of the, the, the opening. But at the end of the day, like, the product has to be good for people to rebuy it. And that only is possible with research with, with the day to day and not the eureka moment. Yeah, that's great advice and a unique perspective that we haven't gotten yet on the show. But if people are interested in your business or want to reach out to you, connect. To connect, where could they find you? Well, they can find us in Instagram. Simply have official it's, orange logo. Should be the first one to appear if I've done my job correctly. And, yeah, you can just DM me. I'm the one who reads the messages, so. Yeah. Fantastic. I appreciate you coming on. It's. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. Yep. So. If.