Community of Believers

Why do we need community and what makes Christian community distinctive? We can all attest to times when the presence or absence of Christ-centered community has impacted us. Let's dig in to find out why it makes a difference.

Made For People by Justin Whitmel Earley (apologies to Justin for not getting his name right in this episode!)
Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
The Center for Being Known - Curt Thompson

@thisistrustworthy

trustworthypodcast.com

Email us listen@trustworthypodcast.com

Transcript

0.000000 2.600000 Is God trustworthy?
2.600000 7.200000 Hi, I'm Sarah and I'm Mary Beth.
7.200000 12.520000 Join us as we seek to answer this question through whole-hearted conversation.
12.520000 17.320000 Discover the wit and wisdom that comes from being anchored in Christ and connected to
17.320000 18.820000 one another.
18.820000 20.820000 This is Trustworthy.
20.820000 37.320000 Well, hello there, Mary Beth.
37.320000 38.660000 Hey, Sarah.
38.660000 40.660000 Happy Trustworthy Day.
40.660000 41.660000 Ooh.
41.660000 47.220000 Or should we say, Happy Community Day.
47.220000 48.740000 We should.
48.740000 51.540000 Happy Community Day.
51.540000 54.660000 It sounds a little weird.
54.660000 62.020000 Sounds like there's going to be some fair or festival happening.
62.020000 63.020000 Community Day.
63.020000 64.020000 Community Day.
64.020000 67.860000 Or like a service project day.
67.860000 68.860000 Community.
68.860000 69.860000 Hmm.
69.860000 76.740000 And my favorite thing to do is to share the definition of a word in order to explain more
76.740000 79.140000 about why we're discussing it.
79.140000 85.680000 Okay, everybody, if you at the edge of your seats, I'm getting out the, she has a physical
85.680000 88.100000 actual Webster's Dictionary in her hand.
88.100000 92.460000 A brand of house Websters College Dictionary.
92.460000 100.100000 And this was given to me as a gift upon my high school graduation last year.
100.100000 104.540000 Now, I'm a little older than that in the 1900s.
104.540000 105.540000 Yes.
105.540000 106.540000 If not the 1900s.
106.540000 110.140000 I just like to say that these days, I think we said that in a previous episode, it just
110.140000 111.940000 cracks me up every time.
111.940000 112.940000 Every time.
112.940000 113.940000 Community.
113.940000 120.500000 A group of people who reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common
120.500000 127.900000 cultural and historical heritage, a locality inhabited by such a group, a social, religious,
127.900000 134.140000 occupational, or other group, sharing common characteristics or interests.
134.140000 138.580000 And there are some other definitions as well, but they don't serve us, so we're going to
138.580000 139.580000 leave them out.
139.580000 146.100000 I think those first few capture a lot of what we're thinking that community can be identified
146.100000 152.140000 by physical boundary, but it can also be broader than that.
152.140000 158.740000 I can be in community with someone who is not physically in my town, because of something
158.740000 161.340000 else we might have in common.
161.340000 169.740000 I think that technology has played a positive role in creating community over long distances.
169.740000 177.540000 I don't sometimes always tout the positive effects of technology, but in this case, I will.
177.540000 182.500000 Letters were good, the pony express was good, telegraph was even better.
182.500000 189.340000 Then we had the telephone, then we had a fax machine, and email problems.
189.340000 198.300000 I had a fax machine in college because I worked on a campaign, and we had extra office supplies
198.300000 201.660000 at the end, anyway.
201.660000 204.300000 So I got to take home a fax machine.
204.300000 205.300000 Did I ever use it?
205.300000 208.100000 I'm not sure I did, but I did know how.
208.100000 211.180000 If the occasion ever presented itself.
211.180000 218.780000 When I first started in the car business, in the 1900s, we did all of our applications,
218.780000 220.940000 bank applications, by fax.
220.940000 227.420000 When I was in college, and this is 2003, so not the 1900s, in the 2000s, the congressional
227.420000 233.780000 office that I interned for on Capitol Hill in DC, I mean, that's how people would send, people
233.780000 239.980000 would send them emails, but there was mass distributions of faxes of press releases or
239.980000 245.340000 news articles or letters from other congressional offices, and that was part of our job as interns
245.340000 249.580000 just to collect all the faxes and sort them and distribute them.
249.580000 250.580000 Wow.
250.580000 251.580000 It wasn't that long ago.
251.580000 252.580000 Oh my goodness.
252.580000 254.860000 Do you think they need less interns now that everything's electronic?
254.860000 259.460000 Because you just have the email program distribute and filter.
259.460000 261.460000 They probably have to do more with email, though.
261.460000 262.460000 Yeah, that's true.
262.460000 265.420000 Probably actually get more volume of things now.
265.420000 269.060000 Oh, because there's no physical barriers to sending a message, right?
269.060000 271.300000 Which leads me to this whole other thing.
271.300000 277.300000 We talked about this before, in the past, there was no physical barriers to sending messages
277.300000 278.300000 electronically.
278.300000 284.060000 So, people do it when they shouldn't on social media or email or whatever.
284.060000 288.060000 Or the millions of ones I've been getting in the lead up to Election Day.
288.060000 289.060000 Oh, phone calls.
289.060000 290.060000 Text messages, emails.
290.060000 291.060000 I do.
291.060000 292.860000 And when this airs, it'll be after Election Day.
292.860000 300.100000 But let me just say this, there's something really amazing about election season, especially
300.100000 306.340000 when it's a presidential campaign, my self-esteem skyrockets.
306.340000 309.220000 Because you realize how important your vote is.
309.220000 310.220000 Yeah.
310.220000 315.940000 And I get so many people telling me that they need me.
315.940000 317.780000 And they send me mail.
317.780000 320.620000 I mean, it's just, it's amazing.
320.620000 321.940000 I get a lot of mail.
321.940000 326.820000 I get a lot of mail and I feel so needed.
326.820000 327.820000 Okay.
327.820000 331.660000 A little cheekyness aside, because that was a little tongue in cheek.
331.660000 333.660000 Hopefully you voted.
333.660000 334.660000 I guess at this point.
334.660000 335.660000 At this point.
335.660000 336.660000 No.
336.660000 337.660000 It's not going back.
337.660000 338.660000 Yeah.
338.660000 344.460000 And we're not going to get into any political discussions in this podcast that we know of.
344.460000 345.460000 We don't plan to.
345.460000 346.460000 Let's put it that way.
346.460000 352.220000 However, being that we're talking about community and just the definition said that we share
352.220000 353.220000 a government.
353.220000 354.220000 We do share a government.
354.220000 360.880000 You're in the United States listening to this and you are able to vote because you are a
360.880000 362.660000 citizen of the United States.
362.660000 363.660000 Please do so.
363.660000 368.980000 It is something that we do is part of our identity as American citizens.
368.980000 370.340000 We're four civic engagement.
370.340000 371.340000 Yes.
371.340000 372.340000 Absolutely.
372.340000 374.380000 That's one way to be part of your community.
374.380000 375.380000 Yeah.
375.380000 377.620000 Oh, and here's another thing I think is interesting.
377.620000 381.660000 Civic and civil are only one letter apart.
381.660000 385.240000 Civic engagement should always be civil.
385.240000 390.440000 I was going to say cynic is one, but it's not as too, that's two letters difference.
390.440000 397.260000 But anyway, a cynical civic engagement, I feel like we could go down a path.
397.260000 399.340000 We should not go down.
399.340000 404.860000 So that leads us back to our conversation, community.
404.860000 411.540000 And particularly what's put on our minds is maybe not our physical government.
411.540000 420.540000 boundary communities, but our relational community and what does that look like and why does it
420.540000 425.660000 even matter and how do we build what kind of community do we do we want to have?
425.660000 428.460000 What kind of community should we have?
428.460000 430.820000 So that's the kind of thoughts that have been floating around in our heads that we wanted
430.820000 431.820000 to talk about a little bit.
431.820000 432.820000 Yeah.
432.820000 434.260000 We do.
434.260000 441.500000 I think back to the acts community, it's always been held out or looked to as an excellent
441.500000 446.820000 example of a community of believers in the early church.
446.820000 449.020000 They took everything they had, they had everything in common.
449.020000 452.480000 They cared for one another, they fellowshiped together.
452.480000 454.660000 It's an excellent example.
454.660000 460.100000 Sometimes I feel like it might be a little unattainable in today's world, just because the
460.100000 462.220000 way we live now is different.
462.220000 465.500000 But I think that we can take some lessons from it.
465.500000 472.660000 Yeah, especially when it does seem very countercultural.
472.660000 481.940000 I feel every day that pull for autonomy and staying in your own lane and just this American
481.940000 483.540000 idea of like doing it yourself.
483.540000 484.540000 You do you.
484.540000 485.540000 Yeah.
485.540000 486.540000 I think that by the way.
486.540000 490.620000 And you know, just these pressures to kind of figure out how you want to live your life
490.620000 499.260000 and you live your life and you make it happen and it's just all about our individual goals,
499.260000 505.060000 abilities, whatever and what I see taught in scripture, what I've seen in my own life
505.060000 510.740000 and in the lives of others, so people thrive the most when they're connected to other people
510.740000 515.740000 who are also encouraging them, pushing them towards what is right and good and the ways
515.740000 516.740000 of the Lord.
516.740000 522.380000 Yeah, we're built for relationship, we've mentioned this before in this podcast and when we think
522.380000 527.980000 that we have it all together and that we can go off on our own and handle everything,
527.980000 532.860000 we trust ourselves more than we trust God and then we set ourselves up to be lower case
532.860000 533.860000 GOD.
533.860000 540.260000 Yeah, so I think about the question, you know, why do we need community in a world that
540.260000 549.700000 is ever increasingly more autonomous, more individualistic, more isolated in a lot of ways, you know,
549.700000 551.260000 why do we need community?
551.260000 556.940000 Can we just say because the Bible tells us and then stop the podcast here, Bible tells
556.940000 557.940000 me so.
557.940000 560.220000 There really is a bottom line, right?
560.220000 562.540000 It's how God has created us to be.
562.540000 563.540000 It's who he is.
563.540000 565.060000 He lives in community with himself.
565.060000 566.060000 With himself.
566.060000 567.060000 Yeah.
567.060000 568.060000 Three persons.
568.060000 569.060000 But we need to talk about it because that's what we do.
569.060000 570.060000 Yeah.
570.060000 571.060000 That's right.
571.060000 573.140000 You don't get off that easy listener.
573.140000 576.540000 That would be like our shortest episode ever.
576.540000 583.220000 But yeah, so I mean, why do we need community because we're made for it and why are we made
583.220000 589.660000 for it because we are made in the image of God who is relational and communal himself
589.660000 597.780000 and so that is the best possible scenario for us, whether we believe in God or not, the
597.780000 602.300000 best possible scenario for all humans is living in good community.
602.300000 610.340000 I think it back to the times in my life where I have, well, even now, intentionally building
610.340000 616.380000 a community in my life because I need it.
616.380000 619.060000 I need people keeping me accountable.
619.060000 626.020000 One of the goals I have right now is to continue my level of fitness and that is going to be
626.020000 628.580000 difficult as the weather changes.
628.580000 633.020000 My chosen exercise is bike riding.
633.020000 639.820000 And when the weather gets colder and ice and snow come, that's going to be hard or not impossible
639.820000 640.820000 for harder.
640.820000 649.220000 So I have been working on trying to create a plan and part of my plan is accountability.
649.220000 657.020000 I have planned to take a hike on a regularly scheduled basis with a friend yesterday was
657.020000 661.980000 our first one and although it was rough, we were, it was, it was amazing.
661.980000 663.820000 We really enjoyed it.
663.820000 668.140000 But I would not have gone if I didn't have that accountability.
668.140000 669.140000 And I'm better for it.
669.140000 674.260000 Not only did I have an amazing hike and get to see the beautiful sun coming through
674.260000 680.420000 the trees with a fall leaves and rushing water and all the things, but it's good for my
680.420000 682.300000 body.
682.300000 689.380000 There is an aspect to relational community that we might tend to think it really is more
689.380000 691.260000 about how we're feeling, right?
691.260000 692.940000 And that isn't an important part of it.
692.940000 697.020000 But like you're saying, they're actually physical benefits to interacting with other people
697.020000 700.860000 and having that, like you're saying, that accountability for whatever area of life it
700.860000 701.860000 is.
701.860000 705.380000 I work from home, so I work by myself.
705.380000 714.940000 It's just me that I do consulting and I have found that even in my work, if I have the
714.940000 722.300000 accountability of a Zoom call or whatever it might be, something that gives me interaction
722.300000 727.820000 with my clients and with other humans, it not only gives accountability to like, you know,
727.820000 733.700000 do the work or whatever, but it helps renew that sense of purpose and what you're doing
733.700000 735.820000 because you're not just doing it by yourself.
735.820000 738.180000 You are working with other people toward a common goal.
738.180000 742.140000 And so that can translate into Christian community as well.
742.140000 747.580000 We as believers, we were talking about how we all, like every human needs community, why
747.580000 753.860000 doing needs specifically Christian community and how does that look different?
753.860000 760.500000 In my life experience, I have seen back to the times when I was growing up, you know, I think
760.500000 765.180000 you see it more clearly in hindsight, but as a kid, when you're 10 years old, you might
765.180000 769.860000 not know, hey, choose some people that might be good influences on you.
769.860000 772.540000 You might need, you know, you might need them later.
772.540000 776.100000 You might need some solid friendships to help you in life.
776.100000 781.100000 But as I've gotten older, I mean, you know, I can see how when I was making big decisions
781.100000 787.100000 in my life, when I was going through hard times in my life, it is the Christian community
787.100000 793.580000 that has been the ones to kind of sustain and uphold and encourage and celebrate and all
793.580000 802.340000 of the things that there is a common ground there that gives you a starting place with
802.340000 807.340000 other believers that you can't find anywhere else.
807.340000 811.860000 I think this is evident when you visit other churches.
811.860000 816.940000 So sometimes we'll go on vacation, we'll go other places and it's over a weekend.
816.940000 821.860000 And so you just find a church and attend and you feel welcome.
821.860000 826.500000 You feel people are happy to have you there as an out of town guest.
826.500000 832.860000 You just automatically know that you're with the people of God.
832.860000 841.340000 And I think that we sometimes get caught up into the community, the physical community
841.340000 845.180000 that we are in and supporting that community, which is good.
845.180000 851.860000 And I'm not saying not to do that, but we sometimes forget to focus first on the community
851.860000 853.420000 of believers.
853.420000 859.460000 There is scripture that encourages us to care for our Christian brothers and sisters.
859.460000 865.940000 Verse, Galatians 6, 9 and 10, let us not become weary and doing good for at the proper time
865.940000 868.540000 we'll reap a harvest if we do not give up.
868.540000 873.940000 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those
873.940000 876.220000 who belong to the family of believers.
876.220000 880.820000 I think about that in the priority organization of my life.
880.820000 884.060000 Yes, I want to help a lot of people.
884.060000 890.940000 I want to love everyone, I want to give my resources to different groups.
890.940000 898.720000 But I feel that my first priority or if I'm ranking things that I need to make sure that
898.720000 905.900000 I'm loving my brothers and sisters in Christ well, that I'm not sort of overlooking them
905.900000 908.300000 in the favor of something else.
908.300000 909.300000 I don't know.
909.300000 914.780000 I guess that can get a little sticky, and I'm not giving any specific directives, but just
914.780000 920.940000 as a general thought, we are required to care for our Christian brothers and sisters.
920.940000 922.420000 And that's how God loves us.
922.420000 924.100000 God loves us through one another.
924.100000 930.900000 Yeah, and then think of the directive, they will know we are Christians by our love.
930.900000 937.860000 I don't think that it is mutually exclusive to care for Christians and care for those
937.860000 938.940000 who are not Christians.
938.940000 948.420000 I think the intent behind that idea is, if you're not loving your own family well, you're not
948.420000 952.480000 going to be loving other people well, and you, you know, it's kind of like get your own
952.480000 953.860000 house in order kind of thing.
953.860000 961.660000 So if you are mistreating those in the family of God, in your church community, in whatever
961.660000 968.900000 it is, you know, love well there first for so many reasons, because it's the right
968.900000 970.540000 thing to do.
970.540000 977.500000 And your community will be better for it and will be better equipped to love the community
977.500000 979.940000 outside of your church if you're loving each other well.
979.940000 980.940000 And it's attractive.
980.940000 986.340000 I mean, we get such a bad rapist Christians for so many reasons, let's at least try to
986.340000 987.740000 love other Christians.
987.740000 988.740000 Right.
988.740000 989.740000 I don't be a hypocrite.
989.740000 990.740000 Don't be.
990.740000 991.740000 Yeah.
991.740000 992.740000 A white sepulchre.
992.740000 999.820000 Which kind of brings us to another idea, how do we do this?
999.820000 1005.340000 How do we build community with people that do not think like we do?
1005.340000 1009.220000 How can we build community with people that are different than us?
1009.220000 1010.220000 Here's the kicker.
1010.220000 1014.940000 How do we build community with Christians that are actively sinning?
1014.940000 1017.780000 Aren't we all actively sinning?
1017.780000 1022.740000 Well, there we go.
1022.740000 1030.820000 And this is a heartbreaking topic because there have been a lot of divisions and splits in
1030.820000 1038.060000 the main line and other denominations across the country and perhaps the world.
1038.060000 1046.340000 But these last few years and it can really bring you down.
1046.340000 1056.580000 But the fact remains that Christ died for all and focusing on what makes us a community
1056.580000 1059.380000 I think is how we build it.
1059.380000 1068.180000 So the word community, common unity, the very nature or the idea of the word is that it's
1068.180000 1070.660000 only created by what we have in common.
1070.660000 1076.300000 So focusing on the differences within the community is not going to build community.
1076.300000 1081.500000 There's an author that I've come across the past couple of years and I have not read all
1081.500000 1082.700000 of his things.
1082.700000 1086.900000 But his name is Justin Whitmel Early.
1086.900000 1090.140000 He is an attorney and author and various things.
1090.140000 1093.620000 I think he lives in Charlottesville, Virginia. [correction: Richmond, Virginia]
1093.620000 1099.020000 But he writes a lot about the importance of Christian community and how practically to
1099.020000 1102.300000 build that into your daily life.
1102.300000 1106.620000 So I was going to read just a quote, this is his book called Made for People.
1106.620000 1112.980000 And it kind of goes to what you're saying, Sarah, about all of us are sinning and we don't
1112.980000 1115.900000 want to be dismissive and tolerant of sin.
1115.900000 1120.660000 But we also don't want that to break down potential community.
1120.660000 1123.700000 So here's what Justin Whitmel Early says.
1123.700000 1128.740000 The truth of grace is that our sins, even our nastiest ones, are not the things that prevent
1128.740000 1130.060000 us from being loved.
1130.060000 1134.820000 His very flaws are what make us human create our need for others and make our reception
1134.820000 1136.300000 of grace possible.
1136.300000 1141.340000 And in confessing them, we become closer to one another and God than ever before.
1141.340000 1148.240000 Honesty about our sins becomes the path, not the barrier to relationship.
1148.240000 1156.780000 I have seen that be true in my own Christian life that when someone else is willing to take
1156.780000 1161.400000 the step through that barrier and come clean on something they're struggling with or sin
1161.400000 1167.080000 or doubts or whatever it is, it just opens up an entirely new level of relationship.
1167.080000 1174.020000 And their humility prompts me to have some humility and some honesty and sharing that
1174.020000 1180.020000 confession of sin together and starting from that place, or not maybe not even starting.
1180.020000 1186.580000 But just working through that kind of situation provides such a deeper form of community
1186.580000 1191.400000 than I think is found anywhere else.
1191.400000 1193.560000 I would agree with that.
1193.560000 1204.820000 I've seen the fruit of being willing to talk about my own missteps, like I said, missteps
1204.820000 1209.900000 as opposed to egregious terrible sins that dammed me to hell.
1209.900000 1213.180000 But I'm not going there because of the blood of Jesus.
1213.180000 1220.980000 But I have seen how sharing my own fallings, I guess, mistakes, however you want to say,
1220.980000 1229.460000 my own sins has enabled others to more fully understand the love that God does have for
1229.460000 1233.340000 them, especially if they have shame surrounding it.
1233.340000 1237.140000 But we have to talk about the things.
1237.140000 1242.540000 If you take a step back, even to how do you get to the point where you can, sure, that
1242.540000 1246.860000 sin with someone, I just had the funny visual in my head of someone walking into church
1246.860000 1250.020000 on Sunday morning and being like, hi, I'm new here.
1250.020000 1254.100000 I'm really struggling with, you know, this, like, it's not going to happen like that.
1254.100000 1256.820000 Like you're not going to meet someone for the first time and they just start confessing
1256.820000 1257.820000 their sins to you.
1257.820000 1264.220000 So even just the practical, how do we even get to a place where that kind of community
1264.220000 1265.220000 can happen?
1265.220000 1273.180000 I think honesty and confession of sin are important parts of deepening Christian community.
1273.180000 1275.620000 But how do we even get there in the first place?
1275.620000 1280.860000 Again, I feel like a lot of this seems like the obvious Sunday school answer, but it's
1280.860000 1283.060000 get involved with your local church.
1283.060000 1284.060000 Yeah.
1284.060000 1285.300000 You can't do it by yourself.
1285.300000 1289.340000 It goes even further than just showing up to Sunday service.
1289.340000 1295.140000 You really have to make a way to build connection and relationship, whether it's
1295.140000 1301.460000 a small group or a ministry or something that you're involved with because the culture and
1301.460000 1306.940000 the world and the devil are going to say, you don't need to do those things.
1306.940000 1308.380000 You don't need to put in the effort.
1308.380000 1310.140000 What you're doing is fine.
1310.140000 1315.820000 You were talking about sort of creating space to be able to have those conversations where
1315.820000 1324.620000 we can talk about our sins, sort of confess our sins to one another and to God, which is
1324.620000 1330.500000 interesting because I think of the 12 steps, which one of them is admit to God ourselves
1330.500000 1333.900000 another person, the exact nature of our wrongs.
1333.900000 1343.140000 And that leads me to think about Curt Thompson, who is an amazing therapist and a man of God,
1343.140000 1350.420000 and he's done a lot of work on Christian spiritual formation and community.
1350.420000 1355.180000 And one of the things that his organization, the Center for Being Known, has started are
1355.180000 1358.100000 these things called confessional communities.
1358.100000 1364.420000 So we will put a link to his website and this Center for Being Known website.
1364.420000 1365.580000 This is a great way.
1365.580000 1372.620000 If you don't have that community in your church or in your local area, these communities
1372.620000 1374.180000 actually form online.
1374.180000 1378.580000 I believe there may even be some starting up by the end of the year or the early part
1378.580000 1379.820000 of next year.
1379.820000 1383.860000 And if you go to the Center for Being Known website, and like I said, we'll link that in
1383.860000 1387.980000 our notes, you can find more information about these.
1387.980000 1395.820000 And essentially it is a long term meeting of people, usually they're done over Zoom.
1395.820000 1399.700000 And these people get together and they tell their story.
1399.700000 1405.220000 And it's a place for listening and being listened to.
1405.220000 1413.260000 And there has been amazing transformation in people's lives when they are able to talk
1413.260000 1420.940000 about this sin or the shame that they have carried with them the whole lives.
1420.940000 1423.580000 And the people in the room don't leave.
1423.580000 1424.580000 They don't go away.
1424.580000 1425.580000 They're just present.
1425.580000 1426.580000 They're there.
1426.580000 1428.420000 They're in community.
1428.420000 1437.940000 And just being able to talk about ourselves and know that Joe or Sally over there, they've
1437.940000 1439.700000 been through this too.
1439.700000 1440.700000 They understand.
1440.700000 1443.700000 I think it really makes a big difference.
1443.700000 1446.180000 And so his work is very interesting.
1446.180000 1451.100000 You can definitely check out his book, The Soul of Shame, which is also really good.
1451.100000 1454.020000 And again, we'll put a link to his information.
1454.020000 1457.140000 But when you were talking about that, I was like, oh, there's a resource for people
1457.140000 1461.020000 that they don't have it within their own church or community.
1461.020000 1469.700000 That makes me wonder, what are we doing as a church that an organization like that has
1469.700000 1471.260000 to exist?
1471.260000 1472.860000 I think it's great.
1472.860000 1473.860000 I think what you're saying is great.
1473.860000 1477.860000 I think it's an important ministry that he has to do that.
1477.860000 1483.460000 But then my brain just goes to why I can't, why isn't that happening at the local level?
1483.460000 1488.380000 I think that one place that it is happening within our Willowdale community is in our
1488.380000 1490.480000 Celebrate Recovery Ministry.
1490.480000 1497.100000 The step studies that they do are very much modeled after that.
1497.100000 1498.300000 There is accountability.
1498.300000 1500.060000 There is community.
1500.060000 1504.060000 There's a way for people to work through their hurts, habits, and hang-ups, and feel that
1504.060000 1505.560000 love.
1505.560000 1513.440000 And hopefully, in absence of shame, shame is a tool that is used by the enemy to keep
1513.440000 1518.260000 us from living to the potential that God has for us.
1518.260000 1523.440000 Shame would have kept me from doing this podcast.
1523.440000 1529.800000 That would have been what shame wanted to do, and that made by the grace of God.
1529.800000 1531.320000 We're here doing this.
1531.320000 1537.960000 Before we started, I even got a chance to meet Dr. Kurt Thompson, and I said to him, you've
1537.960000 1543.720000 inspired me, but I'm scared.
1543.720000 1546.780000 I'm scared to do the podcast, because I'm afraid I'm going to have to talk about stuff that
1546.780000 1552.800000 I don't want to talk about, and he just smiled at me, probably said something like, good
1552.800000 1553.800000 luck.
1553.800000 1556.000000 No, he was kinder than that.
1556.000000 1563.480000 Well, I think the common thread in all of these things is building community takes transparency
1563.480000 1571.040000 and openness and humility and confession and all of these things, and we, as believers,
1571.040000 1576.920000 have to be willing to take that step and go there with each other, or that depth and
1576.920000 1581.480000 growth and freedom is never really going to come.
1581.480000 1587.840000 Next my brain then goes to, okay, how is that any different from a secular community who
1587.840000 1592.960000 is sharing their own struggles?
1592.960000 1602.440000 Celebrate recovery is kind of a can, maybe, to some other not-christ-centered recovery programs.
1602.440000 1607.080000 How is our Christian community different than a non-Christian community that might support
1607.080000 1608.080000 each other very well?
1608.080000 1614.280000 I know what you're getting at, and I would push back, I would argue that, and I think I've
1614.280000 1622.080000 said this before, all wisdom is God's wisdom, and all community is modeled after the community
1622.080000 1628.840000 that God set out for us, the Trinity, and the world that He made, the Creator World.
1628.840000 1634.840000 Even, I think one of the definitions in my Webster's Dictionary talked about a plant and animal
1634.840000 1641.240000 life can be considered a community, and God has woven community into the fabric of His
1641.240000 1642.240000 universe.
1642.240000 1647.360000 There's the circle of life, oh well, I don't know how good the community is if you're eating
1647.360000 1657.280000 each other, but I am thinking about the mice and the foxes and birds and snakes, and we digress.
1657.280000 1663.280000 Listeners, just assume, just go there with me that God has woven community into His creation.
1663.280000 1668.040000 Yes, He has gravitational pull, come on, plant us need each other, we need the moon.
1668.040000 1669.040000 Okay.
1669.040000 1670.040000 Anyway.
1670.040000 1677.760000 We need the moon, that's a takeaway from today.
1677.760000 1678.760000 We do need the moon, though.
1678.760000 1679.760000 For real.
1679.760000 1687.340000 Yeah, we do need the moon, and I learned recently from my very intelligent son who loves to
1687.340000 1693.240000 collect random facts that, and so many millions of years, the moon is actually going to spin
1693.240000 1694.240000 off.
1694.240000 1695.640000 Like we're going to lose the moon.
1695.640000 1699.840000 So Jesus, please come back before that happens, then we'll all be spinning off.
1699.840000 1703.760000 Although he's not going to let that happen while we're here, so we don't need to worry about
1703.760000 1704.760000 that.
1704.760000 1706.120000 That's not something we need to worry about.
1706.120000 1707.120000 Right.
1707.120000 1708.120000 Yeah.
1708.120000 1709.120000 Okay.
1709.120000 1712.520000 Well, I was also think of Bonhoeffer when I was thinking of Christian community.
1712.520000 1716.760000 So Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who I feel like I have mentioned at least three other times.
1716.760000 1717.760000 That's okay.
1717.760000 1718.760000 Hey.
1718.760000 1719.760000 Oldie, but a goodie.
1719.760000 1722.840000 He wrote a book called Life Together.
1722.840000 1729.040000 Here's what he has to say on kind of what the distinctives of Christian community are.
1729.040000 1736.960000 The greatest psychological insight, ability and experience cannot grasp this one thing.
1736.960000 1742.960000 What sin is worldly wisdom knows what distress and weakness and failure are.
1742.960000 1745.800000 But it does not know the godlessness of man.
1745.800000 1751.360000 And so it also does not know that man is destroyed only by his sin and can be healed only
1751.360000 1752.840000 by forgiveness.
1752.840000 1755.040000 Only the Christian knows this.
1755.040000 1759.680000 In the presence of a psychiatrist, I can only be a sick man.
1759.680000 1763.960000 In the presence of a Christian brother, I can dare to be a sinner.
1763.960000 1766.000000 Wow.
1766.000000 1770.840000 If our mics were not attached to boom arms, we would drop them.
1770.840000 1776.320000 I feel like you should have a sound effect on your board over there for like mic drop.
1776.320000 1780.880000 Insert mic drop sound here.
1780.880000 1788.880000 Not interesting that our conversation was naturally taking the turn of confession of sin in
1788.880000 1791.240000 confessional communities.
1791.240000 1799.160000 And someone much wiser than us wrote many years ago that the difference is the acknowledgement
1799.160000 1801.000000 of sin.
1801.000000 1807.480000 And that sin is not like Bonhoeffer is saying, yes, it is detrimental and a curse, but it is
1807.480000 1812.680000 also something we have been forgiven oven from.
1812.680000 1818.000000 And so it is not a psychological problem to be fixed.
1818.000000 1824.360000 It is an ongoing thorn in our side and something that we have to struggle with and fight with
1824.360000 1827.560000 and live with and all those things.
1827.560000 1833.800000 But the distinction is there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
1833.800000 1843.320000 And this means that I am not a liar or a cheat or whatever other label we can have as sinners,
1843.320000 1848.800000 but that I am a child of God, I am forgiven.
1848.800000 1854.720000 And leave the, leave the judgment, leave the discipline to the Lord.
1854.720000 1857.920000 I'm not going to let Sarah continue to walk in a sin.
1857.920000 1863.480000 I see in her life unchecked and just say, well, you know, she's, she's forgiven.
1863.480000 1868.160000 She's doing her like she, that's all right.
1868.160000 1870.280000 It's covered, covered by grace.
1870.280000 1871.640000 That's not what we're saying.
1871.640000 1873.600000 No, I expect you to call me out.
1873.600000 1874.600000 Yeah.
1874.600000 1875.600000 I hope you call me out.
1875.600000 1877.400000 I want you to call me out.
1877.400000 1878.400000 Likewise.
1878.400000 1879.400000 Yeah.
1879.400000 1880.400000 It's important.
1880.400000 1888.960000 And if we are Christians and we cannot take loving correction from a Christian brother
1888.960000 1893.440000 or sister, and that is a problem that we need to take to the Lord.
1893.440000 1894.440000 Yeah.
1894.440000 1895.440000 Yeah.
1895.440000 1903.960000 And it can be hard, especially if we've received negative feedback from long ago, or if we have
1903.960000 1907.560000 been told that we were a bad person, this is why it's really important.
1907.560000 1912.120000 When somebody messes up, that doesn't mean that they're a bad person, that they're this
1912.120000 1916.040000 or that they're that, is that they made a bad choice.
1916.040000 1919.600000 Sometimes good people do bad things.
1919.600000 1924.520000 But there are ramifications of, oh, absolutely.
1924.520000 1925.520000 There are.
1925.520000 1926.520000 Yeah.
1926.520000 1932.360000 And so we're not excusing, you know, like there's damage that you can do by your sin.
1932.360000 1937.880000 And even though we can extend forgiveness, that does not erase damage that has been done.
1937.880000 1941.080000 And it does not erase consequences it might.
1941.080000 1942.080000 This is correct.
1942.080000 1948.920000 I'm thinking more along the lines of when a child does something bad, it is not a good
1948.920000 1951.940000 idea to say you are a bad child.
1951.940000 1952.940000 Right.
1952.940000 1957.280000 We're like you are a good child, and you have made a very poor decision.
1957.280000 1961.720000 You have done something that's bad, but you're not inherently bad.
1961.720000 1962.720000 Yeah.
1962.720000 1965.760000 And that's why I always tack on, that's why we need Jesus.
1965.760000 1967.040000 And that's why we need Jesus.
1967.040000 1968.040000 Yeah.
1968.040000 1971.080000 I just preach it to myself when I'm correcting my boys.
1971.080000 1975.200000 Like you know what the right thing was, and you did not do the right thing.
1975.200000 1976.200000 And that's why we need Jesus.
1976.200000 1980.680000 And that's how we need Jesus, that which I do not want to do, I find myself doing possible.
1980.680000 1981.680000 Hmm.
1981.680000 1982.680000 All right.
1982.680000 1983.680000 Other thoughts on community.
1983.680000 1987.000000 We've focused a lot on sin today, which I didn't expect this conversation to go there,
1987.000000 1988.000000 but I did not.
1988.000000 1992.920000 I wanted to talk more about happy things, fun things, happy things, what it'd be, light
1992.920000 1993.920000 hard.
1993.920000 1994.920000 Where's our lighthearted episodes?
1994.920000 1995.920000 I know.
1995.920000 1996.920000 We did lyrics.
1996.920000 1997.920000 We did.
1997.920000 1998.920000 You're doing it.
1998.920000 1999.920000 I podcast with me.
1999.920000 2000.920000 There's not a lot of lighthearted.
2000.920000 2001.920000 I know.
2001.920000 2011.280000 And then we had the amazing interview with Leslie that was just so heart wrenching, but also
2011.280000 2012.280000 also good.
2012.280000 2013.280000 Yeah.
2013.280000 2014.280000 Very good.
2014.280000 2015.280000 Okay.
2015.280000 2016.280000 So let's bring it back around.
2016.280000 2017.280000 So fun stuff.
2017.280000 2019.480000 How can we build community, which does look like, well, I'm going to give a shout out right here
2019.480000 2024.920000 to you and your husband, but we're hosting a community group.
2024.920000 2025.920000 That's right.
2025.920000 2026.920000 Yeah.
2026.920000 2030.240000 In your home, which I am thankful to be a part of.
2030.240000 2035.060000 And I think that's been interesting and a deliberate, it's a deliberate effort.
2035.060000 2040.560000 I mean, it is not, let's just say this, it is easier to not build community.
2040.560000 2049.800000 It takes work and it's work that we often don't feel like doing, but again, we are told.
2049.800000 2050.800000 We are commanded.
2050.800000 2054.080000 This is something that's a directive from God to build community.
2054.080000 2060.320000 Well, and left to my own devices, I would be a complete disaster of a human being.
2060.320000 2064.240000 I mean, it is so much easier to Netflix and chill.
2064.240000 2065.240000 Yeah.
2065.240000 2072.280000 Then it is to host a supper or a Bible study and we listen, we've got resources.
2072.280000 2075.800000 You can go back and listen to our hospitality episode from last season.
2075.800000 2080.040000 We have a lot of thoughts about this and it doesn't have to be surrounding food, although
2080.040000 2087.080000 I would argue if you go back and listen to the help that it helps.
2087.080000 2096.080000 But I think the other times I've seen communities show up well in my life is when it is consistent
2096.080000 2097.760000 and reliable.
2097.760000 2104.160000 And I think that is one way that we can really show brothers and sisters in Christ when you
2104.160000 2111.280000 are enduring through a long season with someone or you are going through, we just talked about
2111.280000 2117.000000 seasons, going multiple seasons with someone and you are remaining that steadfast friend.
2117.000000 2126.160000 One of my closest friends in my life lives across the pond in England and she and I have
2126.160000 2130.840000 Christ in common and we have done Bible studies and prayer and talk about all the things that
2130.840000 2132.520000 matter together.
2132.520000 2140.320000 And we could not be more different on political abuse and that does not mean that we cannot
2140.320000 2146.840000 be extremely close friends and we can talk about anything under the sun because our common
2146.840000 2150.280000 ground, that common thread is we have Christ in common.
2150.280000 2151.280000 I love you.
2151.280000 2155.240000 Let's figure this out together, calling each other out, calling each other into community
2155.240000 2159.360000 when it has been easier to shy away for both of us.
2159.360000 2164.120000 We've done that different times and just having that accountability and that encouragement
2164.120000 2171.120000 and then doing fun things like going to visit her in England and visiting castles and eating
2171.120000 2172.800000 yummy things.
2172.800000 2178.280000 Fish and chips, lots of fish and chips, lots of, I mean I wouldn't say most British food
2178.280000 2179.280000 is yummy, but...
2179.280000 2180.280000 Cucumber sandwiches.
2180.280000 2182.480000 There are some good things.
2182.480000 2183.480000 Goons.
2183.480000 2184.480000 That's right.
2184.480000 2185.480000 I like scones.
2185.480000 2186.480000 Lots of good teeth.
2186.480000 2190.960000 I moved to this area over seven years ago.
2190.960000 2197.840000 I left behind a community group, a life group, a church.
2197.840000 2203.880000 And I did not want to leave that group behind because they had walked with me through some
2203.880000 2205.960000 difficult things.
2205.960000 2213.800000 So the first Thanksgiving moved in the summer, that Thanksgiving we hosted a friends giving.
2213.800000 2220.360000 And in a couple of weeks, actually probably when you hear this, it will have just happened.
2220.360000 2225.400000 I will be hosting the eighth annual friends giving.
2225.400000 2231.240000 There are more people now that come than used to because these are all young families
2231.240000 2234.480000 and they've been having children.
2234.480000 2239.160000 And their children have just grown up getting together with the same group of people.
2239.160000 2243.320000 Sometimes this is our house, sometimes it's someone else's house.
2243.320000 2245.440000 But it's work.
2245.440000 2252.200000 Most of the people coming will drive at least an hour and some will drive an hour and a half,
2252.200000 2259.720000 two hours with small children, down to infant size, to come to my house for the day.
2259.720000 2264.320000 And they will bring food with them and we will just be together.
2264.320000 2269.720000 And it has become something that has been a joy and it does take work.
2269.720000 2276.120000 It takes effort, but it's deliberate and it is amazing to be able to catch up with these
2276.120000 2277.520000 people.
2277.520000 2284.840000 And at the same time, we have also created a group message the women have.
2284.840000 2288.120000 And we've been able to support one another in prayer.
2288.120000 2293.880000 And just through all the celebrations and the hard times over these last years.
2293.880000 2300.260000 So I would say that that is something that I have been blessed to be a part of.
2300.260000 2308.120000 Yeah, think about looking back on my life in different relationships with other believers
2308.120000 2316.280000 and when you have that dynamic of people who can look into your own life and say, "Hey,
2316.280000 2317.600000 look at how God did this."
2317.600000 2322.760000 And remember when you were struggling with this and having that other perspective, it's
2322.760000 2328.320000 an intangible that is worth more than pretty much anything else.
2328.320000 2329.320000 Yeah.
2329.320000 2338.080000 I think about the things that this group collectively illness, disease, family issues, financial
2338.080000 2344.740000 issues, career changes, you know, this is, I think, this is six families or something over the
2344.740000 2350.280000 course of almost eight years, a lot of things happen, but we've been there for each other.
2350.280000 2356.320000 So the Christian community is not immune to any of the things that befall the world.
2356.320000 2362.240000 And sometimes we might even be more attacked than some of those around us.
2362.240000 2369.280000 But the distinction is, it's not that we are protected or immune from hard things.
2369.280000 2373.200000 The distinction is, we know who redeems it.
2373.200000 2374.200000 Yes.
2374.200000 2375.800000 And we can help each other along.
2375.800000 2376.800000 Yeah.
2376.800000 2380.200000 I think back to just this in our community group over the last year, we had a couple
2380.200000 2382.120000 of situations come up.
2382.120000 2387.440000 There was some emergency medical procedures that had to happen and the drop of a hat.
2387.440000 2388.600000 Everybody's like, "Oh, I got the kids.
2388.600000 2389.600000 I got this.
2389.600000 2390.600000 I got dinner.
2390.600000 2391.600000 Got whatever."
2391.600000 2392.600000 And there was never a question.
2392.600000 2393.600000 It was seamless.
2393.600000 2394.600000 That was what might say.
2394.600000 2395.600000 That was my family.
2395.600000 2398.000000 There was a little thing too.
2398.000000 2401.320000 And it really was, I mean, it was remarkable.
2401.320000 2404.200000 It was within 60 minutes.
2404.200000 2409.000000 Every single need we had was immediately taken care of when my husband had to go to
2409.000000 2410.000000 the hospital.
2410.000000 2415.040000 And I shared with the group that there was a time when we first moved here where we did
2415.040000 2416.520000 not have that.
2416.520000 2424.360000 And so to see the distinction of just the life-giving aspects of community, it's priceless.
2424.360000 2425.360000 No.
2425.360000 2426.360000 It certainly is.
2426.360000 2432.840000 Well, I think that about brings us the end of our time, it certainly doesn't wrap up
2432.840000 2433.840000 the topic.
2433.840000 2434.840000 It certainly doesn't.
2434.840000 2441.760000 We should let our lovely listeners get back to their community.
2441.760000 2442.760000 Exactly.
2442.760000 2443.760000 It was really lame.
2443.760000 2448.040000 Or you can stay in our community and listen to some more episodes, but we're glad that
2448.040000 2450.000000 you listened to us today.
2450.000000 2454.160000 And we are happy to be building this community with you, the trustworthy community.
2454.160000 2457.400000 Thanks for putting up with our jokes.
2457.400000 2469.400000 And all of our failures and all of our idiosyncrasies, thank you for adding "syncrasies" instead
2469.400000 2474.080000 of a "t" to that prefix.
2474.080000 2478.320000 All right, Sarah, we got to wrap this up.
2478.320000 2483.400000 We're off the rails, we've jumped the shark, we have jumped the shark, but I'm glad that
2483.400000 2497.600000 you're in my community of believers.
2497.600000 2503.680000 Hey y'all, Marybeth here, Sarah and I are so glad that you chose to listen to our podcast.
2503.680000 2508.760000 And while we think that we're awesome friends to have, we just wanted to clarify that we are
2508.760000 2512.760000 not mental health professionals and want you to know that this podcast should not take
2512.760000 2515.640000 the place of any paid professional advice.