Are We Wasting A Generation Of Fighters?

A medal in the sock drawer, a curling dust-up, and a confession about a replica gone missing—our opening laughs quickly sharpen into a serious question: what should competition actually improve? We trace a line from winter sport spectacle to taekwondo’s modern identity crisis, asking why a combat sport now rewards touch over impact and clever avoidance over decisive technique. If a clean face kick changes nothing, what are we training athletes to do—and why would fans stay?

We dig into rules, scoring systems, and electronics that have shifted incentives toward low-risk contact and away from timing, distance, and power. The athletes are more flexible, more acrobatic, and capable of stunning technique, yet the meta penalizes ambition. The outcome is efficient but not beautiful, and the sport pays for it in audience appeal and athlete development. We make the case for reform: restore consequences in scoring, reward clear dominance, and ensure that what wins on the mat aligns with martial intent.

Gear politics don’t help. Domestic-versus-international glove standards, rental equipment, and brand mandates create confusion and cost. Our fix: open, testable equipment standards that let multiple manufacturers compete while ensuring accurate scoring and safety. Universal interoperability for socks, gloves, and protectors would cut barriers for clubs and families and put the spotlight back on skill.

The heart of the episode is the pipeline. We contrast North America’s early specialization and constant ranking with Norway’s “joy of sport” model—no official scores before 13, multi-sport participation, and affordable access that keeps 93 percent of kids active. We argue for funded national team camps, international training trips, and real continuity from cadets to juniors to seniors. Teach travel, team habits, recovery, and resilience early. Stop filtering talent by income; invest in the journey, not just the podium.

By the end, we lay out a clear path: change the incentives, standardize gear, and back the next generation with experience and support. The sport can be both efficient and beautiful—if we demand it. If this conversation resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a coach or parent, and leave a review with your top rule change to make taekwondo more watchable and more true to its roots.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:51

Sorry! Not sorry, yay!

TJ 0:55

Snowflakes!

Speaker 1 1:03

Amazing conversation about dark chocolate and milk chocolate, but I won't fill you in on the details because that is the Warehouse 15. Uncut, unbelievably real, keeping it real every day. I'm joined by my brothers in arms. And it was an excellent article. Reminded me of the two of you today. It was in the New York Times. It says, Where do you keep your Olympic medal? And I saw that picture. Dude, I saw the picture, and it was like they took a picture of my draw. Mine is next to my passport in my bedside drawer. That's where it is. So if you're coming to my house and you want to rob it, that's where you find it. Leave my passport though. I need that. I don't need the medal. Welcome, brothers. How are you today? Oh, where's yours, TJ?

TJ 1:44

Mine is actually in this case that I've had since 2012. It looks a little beat up. But like, because I travel with it a lot, so it's just easier to keep it in a case and you still do that.

The Replica Medal Mystery

Juan 1:54

So for yeah, so for years, mine was like the same thing here. Like it was in my my sock drawer forever. And about, I don't know, five years ago, I just kept them in the box and I put them on this shelf, like in my in my room. That's by like, I have like 10 books that I love that I just I always reread or kind of re-look at. And I just put them up there, they're just collecting dust. But you know, I I don't know if I ever told the story, but I had this buddy that was uh gonna do a replica of his and he and he told me he's like, hey, if you wanted yours, you know, to get some replicas of them, you know, just let me you know, send it to me and I'll and I'll uh and I'm gonna send them to Korea. I'm gonna get them made, and they're gonna look really nice. I said, you know what, that'd be pretty cool because then I could travel with them and stuff. So I gave them to him. And then like six, seven months later, six, seven months later, I called him like, hey, how's it going? He's oh no, they're good. They're just they're getting it done, they had some problems. Okay, about six months after that, so we're into it for a year. I'm like, hey, what's going on? Oh no, they had a problem, they're gonna send them back and don't worry about it. And about six months later after that, I'm like, yo, Mother Ephra, what what what's going on? No, no, they sent it to you. Yeah, they didn't send it to you. Give me your then six months later, I'm like, yo, just tell me. If they're gone, they're gone. I no, I wasn't. I I reserved the fact that they're gone. And about three months later, they show up in a package. You got them back? Oh, I opened them up. You got them back. And I look and I see my two Olympic medals, and I I I almost cried. But there was there was you know, uks or stuff. I was, I was, I couldn't believe it. I was like, this guy, man, this guy's yeah, and that was.

Curling Controversy And Winter Sports

herb 3:31

Oh, it was you. Oh my bad. Where I come from. There are guys that can do things. So I had somebody who actually made a replica of my first medal because I wanted to keep it and I wanted to have an extra one that I could carry around and share it with the kids and stuff. And then that person disappeared. So I was in going to Korea, and Koreans can do anything. But when I did go to Korea and I brought the medals, I showed him the medals, and the guy said he couldn't do it. So the what when I had it made originally was in New York from this ring maker who made me a ring for the TV show. So I apologize. But that was me. I will own up for it. That was a good thing. We could go to China to be, you know. I thought you lost them. You know what happened? No, I wouldn't do that. But you know what would happen is first of all, I wouldn't I took him to Korea. I wouldn't send him in a in a on a thing. But um, the thing that did didn't happen was I didn't lose him. And the good news is, unlike the winter ones, they didn't they don't break.

Juan 4:22

So hey, speaking of the Olympics, you see Canada getting a little feisty in the curling with the uh with the uh sweep.

Speaker 5 4:29

I saw them arguing back and forth.

Juan 4:31

He was like that about the double touch thing, right? Yeah, but he did, bro. And then he was saying then he got mad at them for like having a camera there because you're not supposed to have a camera there. Like, I don't understand how the Olympic Games, if that's an illegal thing and it's being done, like how do they not have their own camera? But they're getting scrapped. It's like just what'd he say? He said, like, back the F off, back up the F off. Or you know, I'm like, I would think, okay. And then the Canadian women got and then the Canadian women got the same charge and they they got their stone, I think, pulled off.

herb 5:00

They got their stone pulled off? That sounds tough. I mean, I think it's so funny.

Juan 5:04

I've watched so much curling this time. I'm a I'm a curling master.

herb 5:08

Curling starts before the Olympics, ends after the Olympics. That it actually the competition goes on forever, it never ends. And I'm gonna tell you something. If I ever become president of the International Olympic Committee, the very first thing I'm gonna do after I kick taekwondo out is kick curling out. Those are the two things that I'm doing. Taekwondo, I'm bringing bin whooshu mushu, I'm bringing in pushu, I'm bringing in ramen noodles, I'm bringing anything except the current version of taekwondo.

Juan 5:38

Actually, the Olympics has pretty been interesting to me because quite honestly, I don't know what the exact medal count that the United States normally gets, but we've been, you know, like we've had some rough goals with like Chloe Kim, our ice dancer, the guy, the quad, the quad god, you know, we went from first to eighth. Um, our ice dancers got second. We had a like we dropped a lot of gold medals that we think we normally get. But you know who's really doing poor is Canada. I think up to date, if I'm not mistaken, they had one gold. Now they're about to play USA and Canada are going to play in women's hockey in the gold medal match, so they could get another one.

Speaker 5 6:11

All the one gold for the whole games.

Juan 6:13

So as I I checked this morning, I thought it was one gold. I think they have seven medals total. But like Canada, like, you know, historically gets they do really, really well, but um, they've lost a few, just like United States. They've lost a few in speed skating and stuff, and Russia doesn't seem to be killing it, you know. I don't know if is Russia there, actually.

Speaker 5 6:31

It says two golds so far. They have two golds so far. They got one today, two gold.

Juan 6:34

I don't think Russia, I think you're yeah, but Norway's actually we're gonna talk about a little bit more.

herb 6:41

But I did see, I know that you guys are amateur aficionados of this sport, and I really have always respected you for your willingness to do this because not many men would do this sport. But I do remember you and um TJ trying out for the men's double luge, and I've always respected you for that willingness to be that close to each other and lock it in, if you will. You know, you know what a secret is who was on the bottom? I can't remember.

Juan 7:07

No, but we switched. That's what I was gonna tell you.

herb 7:11

Yeah, but I I had never seen guys hug on the way down. It's usually they're facing the other way, but but no, but see, sometimes we're we switch top and bottom, and sometimes we face each other all night. So you're doing the 6'7, the 6'8, and the 6'9. All right, I got it, I got it. No, seriously that's we're gonna have to put an explicit warning. Right, yeah, that's just the flat sled. Why why you act like you don't know? Why you act like you don't know?

Speaker 5 7:36

So are the are they pulling or controlling anything? Like the is it? Oh, yeah, they're pulling something.

herb 7:41

It looks like they're pulling something. Yeah, yeah. I saw the pulling part. Yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 5 7:45

Have you ever been the actual ones they have like little controls, right?

herb 7:48

Where they can sometimes the controls get bigger. But have you been to Lake Placid? Have you ever been to Lake Placid? If you ever go to the bobsled.

Juan 7:55

The bobsled they do have. They do have something, right? Yeah, yeah.

herb 7:58

The bobsled has it. Those are $30,000, $70,000 sleds. But if you ever go to Lake Placid and you want to scare yourself, they have a practice track. You go up to the top of that thing and you look down. I'm telling you, you wouldn't even you could you crawl back down. It what the ski jumpers do is ridiculous. No, it's ridiculous.

Luge Jokes And Bobsled Bravery

Juan 8:15

I was looking at the one that I think was is the bigger, whatever. And these they got the small skis, and these girls are going down this thing, and it's straight down, and then they jump up, and one chick from Canada, she's going backwards. Oh, yeah, backwards, yeah, and then she does stuff. I'm like, I couldn't crawl down that thing. No, no, it's impressive, man. And they're like 18, 19. It's weird too, because in the winter sports, you you see people in their sixth Olympics, their fifth Olympics. I mean, they they last a lot longer than the winter sports. You know, it's a pretty interesting, it's an interesting conversation. I saw a United States lady today won her first gold medal at 41 years old. She, I think she has like three silvers or two silvers and three bronze. She got a she got a uh a gold and the mono mono bobs bobsled.

herb 9:00

Just a woman by so well you see the bobsled the bobsled is really cool. Like you guys, to be honest, if you were willing to gain a bunch of weight and you could run pretty fast, you could be the person in the back of the bobsled.

Juan 9:12

I'm not I'm not I don't want to like body shame, but I was gonna ask that because the the luge, the single louge, yeah, like I I I noticed like this is early on in the games, the ladies looked a little heavier, they looked a little bigger, they weren't girls.

What Competition Should Improve

herb 9:25

It's all momentum, and it's like you know, it's gonna be like a certain weight that might be. There's a certain weight. If you can run fast, and because I looked at the men and I was like, dude, these guys are big. They're not like I mean, big and like the one the Canadian looked like he drank half the Cores Factory or whatever they drink up there, Labats. But uh he was he was he ran pretty quick. But you know, they were back in the day, we were like looking at uh football players because yeah, because they're big, they're strong, and they run fast. And you don't have to run for long. You run that little bit, you jump in the back of the sled, and the pilot, you just stay there and you lean, you gotta learn to lean. But um, you know, I I and again, I I want to thank you two for your service. And I'm sorry you didn't make the team. I don't know what the holdup was, but I'm practicing. Yeah, practice. There's still room and there's still time. So I I think I can be the back of anybody's bobsled. Oh, whoa, whoa, take it easy, but six seven, baby. All right, so let's we got a lot to catch up on. Um, one of the things was as I was looking at the Olympics, um you know, the thing that I've always said to all of you all is the purpose of competition is to refine and define the technical acumen of the thing that you do. So if it's boxing, the idea is through competition, you become better at boxing and whatever the outcome of boxing is. And I'm pretty sure that the outcome of boxing is to punch somebody and in professional, obviously, to render them unable to punch you back. And certainly in the uh amateurs, it's similar, although they they they manifest it differently. If you think about virtually every Olympic sport, the idea is that the competition itself refines and defines the technical acumen of it. So if it's track and field, run faster, if it's shot putting, it's throw it faster, if it's javelin, same idea. Virtually every sport is like that. And so that pres uh we'll we'll get into that question, but what do you think of that idea, TJ?

Speaker 5 11:25

I think that's for me, I think that's more of a when you talk about track and field. I don't I don't think you can do the same thing when it comes to fighting. Well, boxing, or let's use tech. Obviously, we talk about taekwondo, let's say taekwondo, for example. I don't think the fight would get better. We go back to old, you know, we talk about old school, new school, which I just think one's taekwondo and one's a little bit of a scoring sport now, completely different. But um, when you're kind of comparing those two, I don't think taekwondo, you get better at taekwondo because you could do more things, you could spin more, you could spin faster, you can nod a bond, you could spin hook kick. It was just as impressive then, and I think it would still be impressive now if I can just shut you down and make you miss, hit you afterwards, hit you before, hit you in between, almost make it look easy. That's what me when I think of dominance in a sport or it getting a little slower. Because when you have two really good people in the ring, I think it's a little bit more paced out. I mean, even when you think about boxing, you know, when you got two boxes in a ring, it's a little bit more slow or methodical fight. And then someone eventually opens up, does some things that changes the dynamics, changes the speed, changes the distance, change the length, and it gets a little bit more exciting. But I think it's hard to say that you can see a difference in the sport because of the level of techniques they're doing and a sense of jumping high or spinning, all this stuff like that. I don't think for a fight a fighting sport you can use that same uh I don't know, correlation or connection.

Has Taekwondo Become Tag?

herb 12:39

Let me let me let me let me dig in there for a minute. Let me kind of focus on that. So there are many fighting sports in the Olympics, right? You can go to judo, you can go to boxing, you can go to taekwondo, and for 10 seconds karate was in. May it rest in peace. Um fencing is a fighting sport, wrestling is a is a and gro Greco Greco-Roman is so are what you're saying. I want to be clear on what you're saying. Are you saying that those sports are totally divorced from their judo's idea is that you use your opponent's energy and throw them to the ground, and the reason you throw them to the ground is so that they're incapacitated. The impact of their body on the ground is what incapacitates them. So are you saying that there's a different that their that outcome has changed in either judo or boxing or fencing or wrestling?

Speaker 5 13:30

No, I don't think it changed. I just don't think someone started a spinning backfist punch over the shoulder to make boxing more exciting, or like the Superman punch across the ring for boxing. I think boxing as a chance.

herb 13:40

They don't do that. They don't do that in boxing.

Speaker 5 13:42

That's my point. That's so how would you make boxing more exciting?

herb 13:44

Because you said I don't think the purpose, and this is where we differ. I don't think it's our responsibility to make taekwondo more. No, me neither.

Speaker 5 13:54

No, no, no, no, me neither. I'm I'm actually arguing the opposite. I'm saying because I think I thought what you were saying was that you know you can kind of tell that other sports they they jump higher or they run faster. No, what I'm saying is that they're they're those same measures for fighting.

herb 14:07

If the purpose of boxing, the purpose of putting your hands up in boxing is twofold. One, you don't let somebody hit you. Two is you hit somebody with sufficient enough force that they can't counterattack, or if you're capable, you knock them out because you can still knock them out at the Olympics with boxing. In judo, a full point is when you take somebody, flip them in the air, they land on their back. That's a full point because if they had hit the floor unpadded on their back, their head, their body, they would be incapacitated. In fencing. E-pone? E-pong? Yeah, yeah, e-pone. When you do fencing and you do those strikes with the epe or or the saber, they have slashing and poking. And the idea is if you had done that, it would have hit a vital area and that person would be incapacitated. Now, what I'm hearing you say about taekwondo is taekwondo now is like is some sort of sophisticated game of tag where I don't let you touch me, but you I can touch you, and then I win. And I don't believe that to be true. I think taekwondo still is and should be a full contact martial art where the whole idea behind the original scoring system was you were doing something that had you hit them. This came from karate, one punch, one kill. One punch, one kill. So if I kicked you in the chess without a chess guard and my foot hit you in your chest with this amount of force, you would be unable to continue, or it would have damage and it would be cumulative. And I think you're saying now that taekwondo has changed now to something else, and maybe that's where all this uh tension is coming from for me.

Speaker 5 15:43

I I'm gonna go back. I guess I I guess I'd ask you, why did you so I think you always you mentioned a couple of times that you were implementing like changing the the rules for as far as the points, the scoring system. Um, I believe I liked it back in the day when everything was one point because I back kicked you because you were open, I axe-hicked you in the face because of this, I counterattacked this way because you made this mistake, or there was always a reasoning behind it. Now I don't think so. I think now we're doing things simply for higher point value. And I don't necessarily and I think that's why we started going wrong.

herb 16:13

So that's a great point. That's a great point. So here's what the original intent, which we created for the higher point, the problem they were having was they wanted to see more sophisticated, and this is you're right on this, sophisticated techniques. So we were capable of doing Nautabonds, but it was just way too easy to counter a Nautabond. And we could I did Nottabons. Well, you can, but it's way too easy to open yourself up to the possibility when you do high-level techniques, face kicks, axe kicks, whatever, to be counted. And if the kick that you're countering with is a round kick, of which you can do many, and it's the same value as a face kick, why bother a face kick? It's just way too easy to counter a face kick.

Speaker 5 16:55

Because their hands are down.

herb 16:57

Yeah, but that's not if you throw a round kick back.

Speaker 5 16:59

You hit them in their body so hard so many times that they were so worried about you checking, they covered their body and their hands would hear and you kick them in the face. And then they probably got knocked out. So, same thing, no?

Technique Versus Beauty In Combat Sports

Juan 17:10

Go ahead, Juan. I'm gonna go back to what you originally saying. You know, I I go back and forth with the old school, new school. I will say this: if I have to like really judge on the beauty of the game right now and what's being efficiently used and stuff like that, I will say that it's not. I mean, people I'll I won't deny the fact that athletes today can do a lot of stuff. They can flip, they can flop, they can spin, they can do a lot of things. And I've always argued with that with you, you know, Grandmaster Perez, that these kids can do a lot, but they don't because of like exactly what you're saying right now. What's useful and what's why would I throw a regular runoff kick when I can do a little twist kick, you know, and not not put myself in harm. But now I'm gonna go back to your guys' original thing. Does that make taekwondo more beautiful? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. There's there's nothing that you can say about how we stand and how we just lead out that you can say that looks beautiful. Is it efficient? Yes. Is it it does it score, you know, more often? Yes. Is it? I mean, does it help you win? Yes. You know, yes, yes, yes. I won't, I won't really, you know, uh complain about any of the the training and the training uh methodologies, but it doesn't make our sport look better. As like you said, boxing, boxing hasn't changed. There's still a jab and across. People are just better at it. Judo probably hasn't changed so much. The e-pawn is an e-pawn, but they're just way more physically fit nowadays through strength training and and bands and resistance that maybe they didn't have years ago. And you could say the same for probably most every other sport. Taekwondo, we we are physically fit. I would gather that we're probably just as physically fit, if not more, than others. In some fields, we're definitely not as as explosive. That's an impossible. There's no way that the athletes of today are as explosive as the athletes of the past, but they're way more flexible than the athletes in the past. They can do more, they can create more angles than athletes. So again, there are durable.

herb 19:10

The question is this you made a good point just now. You may all everything you said is correct. But uh the pool of athletes now are more flexible. These same athletes wouldn't be in the pool in the past. Flexibility was important, but durability, which you were going to get to.

Juan 19:28

You could flip, you could flip it around. You could say that I mean, again, this is the NBA talk and stuff like that. The athletes in in the era of maybe us, our era, were too short and and didn't didn't kick enough. So, I mean, you could you could say, well, they would have adapted, they would have adapted. I don't really know. We don't really know. That's uh such a hypothetical question, but I guess my point is I will agree with you guys, the sport is not more beautiful now. It's not. There's nothing, you know, you know, you don't look at again. If I look at a boxer from the 70s as as rough and crazy as they were, you can't compare them to a Crawford or a Sugar Ray or a uh a uh Lomanchenko. These guys are just so skillful and so scientific, you know. So, and I bet you the same thing you could say for, you know, I heard this thing about like MMA, like you know, jujitsu. If you were good in jujitsu 20 years ago, 30 years ago, would you be good now? There, there's there's an argument to say yes, but because these guys are so well trained as far as physical fitness, they're stronger. So if all things are even, like technically, but they're just a stronger person, a more superior person, they're gonna have some sort of an advantage, you know.

Speaker 5 20:39

And you know, also and this is I know you don't know because there was no strength and conditioning stuff, maybe the technique on their side is higher level or it was it was taught differently. Like our value and what we thought taekwondo was was a little bit different than what I see now. You know what I mean? Maybe they are more flexible or faster or whatever, but I think there's still there's still a layoff. I think there's still uh maybe a toss-up for me in my in my time. I don't think we spent much time. I know we didn't spend much time when I was growing up doing strength and conditioning. These kids are talking about doing they're doing strength and conditioning with kids at like 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. This is totally different. I just went to techno no training and we did strength and conditioning aspects to training, but not necessarily strength and conditioning on purpose at another place with sports-specific movements outside of my techno training.

Rule Sets, Scoring, And Athlete Safety

Juan 21:21

Yeah, I went to the Olympic training center, they didn't do, you know, I I was already Olympian, and they were they they really fought the urge to to lift weights. And when I was, I mean, her young, you know, my my coach, he was a physical fitness buff, and we were doing pull-ups and dips and squats and lunges, and we were doing box jumps, we were doing all kinds of things. But when I went to the Olympic training center, when I moved there, they didn't want us to go to the weight room. We had to run and taekwondo, taekwondo every day. Run taekwondo, taekwondo every because that was the Korean mold. Even the Koreans nowadays, you know, the Asian countries, they they see the value of lifting weights to help. Prevent injuries, to break up the trainings, you know, to support certain movements that we need nowadays.

Speaker 5 22:06

So I mean, I remember what age, what age do you think for Tekwondoba, do we say we're gonna go into a strength and conditioning regimen? Like and I'm gonna do it outside of Tekwondoba because I feel like that's what's happening a lot more than not. You know, people, I think we look at this model, what it looks like at the top, we go, okay, these people are training twice a day, they're eating like this, they're training like this, they're doing all these different things. And then we try to, I guess, dumb it down, but I I know it's getting a lot more specialized where you know I hear more and see more where they're doing short and conditioning programs at 11, 12, 13, 14 years old.

Juan 22:37

I I mean again, um, I mean, I I I just did this uh coaching program in in Peru, and I kind of gave my breakdown of pre-cadets, cadets, juniors, seniors, and when I teach them things and why I teach them things. It's an older model. It's funny, I would like to talk about that, you know, in a little bit. But I I will say this, TJ. Um, I don't know. I mean, first of all, it all depends on the individual because you have some kids that are 13 that are way more, their bodies are way more built than others. Um, but I mean, I think the sport has to be first, first and foremost. I mean, that's one thing that I implemented more in in in Brazil. I think second of all, everything is at the right time for the person's body. Um, you can do you could do air squats and you could do lunges and you could do plyometrics, you could do push-ups, you can do all the body weight type stuff that are is gonna physically fit, you know, make your body fit. You can do band training and resistance training like that, and then you can add in weights, you know, a little bit longer or a little bit later. I actually I don't know if it's 100% correct, but I one of my coaches, you know, said he he believes that people should just do like learn how to do bodybuilding type stuff, bench press, leg press, curls, just so you get comfortable with the weights, and then you can start your your more you know sophisticated movements and things of of cleans and and and you know RDLs and just you know stuff like that.

Speaker 5 24:04

So I mean the one the one official one we did where I did was before the Olympic Games when we did our whole shit to conditioning program. Yeah, and that was the one one time in my career that in I think we did a little bit before, but that was like the boom this, this, this, this, everything's calculated, everything's this, you know. Too late though.

herb 24:21

Too late though, too late, too late for that. The so the one thing I and the reason I like this conversation for besides it being with you guys is here's the thing that I was gonna preface all this by, and I should have started with we're wasting a generation of athletes. So let's say I give you, I'll give you this. Let's say they're more flexible. Let's say, in the rare occasion, you have somebody who's flexible and physical, they're more athletic. And I'll give you that on one or two athletes that I can think about, and probably a few more. Let's say that you might have one or two or three of those guys that have flexibility, agility, athleticism, and have what we have, which is the uh grit, what they call grit now, perseverance, determination. We're wasting that generation of athletes. And that's the sad part because imagine those athletes with that athleticism, that agility, that kind of Patrice Remarque killer instinct. Imagine them had they been given the opportunity to truly test what was capable and possible. So that's where I'm sad. I don't, I'm not gonna argue, I'm not gonna try to argue is Kobe better than this one or that one better, that kind of an argument. What I'm gonna say is we're wasting a generation of athletes on a dumbed-down version of, you know, K poop tag. Um, and that's a shame because we're taking a step backwards for the past 10, 20 years in the sports athletic regimen, technical acumen that's gonna hurt the sport and make us irrelevant. And I was there, as you guys know, for the very first and second UFC. And the idea of the UFC back in the day and what it is now, that thing has just escalated in terms of athleticism, agility, sport science, um applicability.

Juan 26:20

Yeah, young honestly, in in the in the time frame that it's been around, I mean, there's not another sport in the world that has escalated like MMA has, UFC specifically.

herb 26:32

Not football, not basketball, not wrestling, soccer.

Juan 26:36

No, stop.

herb 26:37

Soccer soccer's improved.

Juan 26:38

Soccer, no, no, all the sports have improved, but not meteorological, not a lot of people.

herb 26:43

Well, but it came, yeah, but yeah, and I and I'm not gonna say it hasn't. What I'm gonna say is this what it originally started out and its concept was different than what it what it is now and what it thought it was gonna be. So it was that's like saying a white belt becomes a you know, a white belt, a white belt becoming to a blue belt, the it's an escalation of of unbelievable. Uh a blue belt to a red belt or red belt to a black belt or a black belt further on, they're already good. So that uh you'll see MMA will slow down. You'll see MMA, it's technical acumen. There's only so much you can do or change. And one of my favorite guys to watch back in the day was Uriah Faber, because he was one of those guys who ahead of his time. Yeah, he was he was doing stuff that I didn't even understand. Then there was that other cat that was moving, I didn't even understand how he was stepping. He was like, he was moving, I think it was silver or whatever. This cat, you couldn't even see him, and he was, you know, so they were taking it to a different place. But the the question, I the well, it's not a question. The statement is Taekwondo hasn't. Taekwondo was on that journey. Taekwondo's stepping and its understanding of distance and its ability. If somebody gets hit in the face right now with a back hook kick, nothing happens. Nothing happens. Feelings get hurt, and the athlete may not even understand what happened because they're not used to getting touched unless it's a uh a cream that they get from Keels or from a cologne that they get. So the athletes, when you got hit, and I'll ask you both a question. If you got kicked in the face back when you were fighting, were you afraid of losing a point, or were you afraid of being unconscious? Yeah. I guess that's the difference.

Juan 28:28

No, listen, I like I said, I I think I'm we we can we can go back and forth. I I I'll have to say the sport is not more beautiful now. That that I can say.

Speaker 5 28:37

I mean, I can because sport development is less? Is it because we're spending not enough time on Taekwondo? The rules. No, it's the rules.

Electronic Gloves And Equipment Chaos

Juan 28:42

It goes all the way, it always goes back to the rules. Uh actually, speaking of the rules, I did you ready for this? Did you read this latest thing that USA Taekwondo uh is doing with the gloves?

Speaker 5 28:53

Oh, I don't even know what that means. It's like domestic gloves.

Juan 28:56

Yeah, like that's I'll tell you exactly what happened. They've dado made some gloves, some electronic gloves, right? To hit this space. And so they did that. And I think they thought they were gonna get approved, but the WT wants these kinds that kind of like curve. We talked about this that you can't open up your hand. So now they've got all these gloves, TJ, I'm sure. And for some reason, because Dado is live, you know, is is built here in the United States, that they gotta get rid of them. I'm sure, because why would USA there so what they're doing, young, is there's for all domestic tournaments, you have to have these dado gloves that don't have the the curve thing. But the WT has a different uh um what do you call it standard, and it has to be curve. So you're gonna have to have other gloves for them. So for states, regionals, nationals, team trials, you have to have these gloves. But if you go to the US Open2?

Speaker 5 29:50

US Open.

Juan 29:50

US Open too? Yeah, US Open. We're doing the the regular because WT hasn't approved the other ones yet, but still, that's crazy. So you could rent them, which means you're gonna try on other people's gloves, or you can buy them. They want people to buy them because there's again this year we have well, you have states. Let's go, states, regionals, nationals, maybe the finals, and maybe a team, Charles. So you'll have five, five events. Probably that North American open that G1 open that's later on in the fall will be the same thing. I'm just like, that's just crazy, man. It's crazy that they would make two sets of gloves, one for domestic and one for international.

Speaker 5 30:28

I just like I'm so disappointed. But they didn't make it for domestic, right? Like that just happened to be what they're calling it to get rid of these things.

Juan 30:34

Yes, I think they're exactly. That's my point. They should be like, USAT should be like, well, no, we're not, we'll we'll wait till the regular gloves come out. Like, right. It's just uh oh man, I I think that's a big think about that. You're gonna be wearing gloves, you're gonna be borrowing gloves in the in at the tournament. You give them your ID, they'll give you a pair of gloves.

Speaker 5 30:56

Yeah, they did that with the socks at the team trials, too. That's gross too, though. It's all it's all silly. It it it's it's silly. I I don't know. I go back and forth. I think the game, here's my issue. I think the game should be played at the same at all the levels, with all the same equipment, all the same this is. But also, we're dealing with three different equipments. Now we're dealing with three different equipments with two different gloves and and all these things. It's it's so it's it's just chaotic.

Juan 31:20

It's dumb. If they want, if they want, if each come if each company wants to have they should have all the same guts, it should all be the same, you know what I'm saying? And if Adidas wants to have their version and KPP and you say, Hey, this is an Adidas tournament, okay, it's Adidas tournament, but the crap is the same. The gloves are the same, the kicks, you know. I mean, it it should all my socks should be universal, my gloves should be universal. But if the hogu says Adidas or or Dato or KPP, so be it. I mean, it's ridiculous.

herb 31:49

But the the original, and this was something that happened in 2000. So the WT illegally um interferes with what's called performance enhancing equipment, and nobody's ever taken them to task on it. And I said it's illegal. In other words, if you look at the Olympic charter, the Olympic rules, athletes are allowed to choose their own performance enhancing equipment. So if you're an athlete, you don't have to wear Nike sneakers, you wear what sneaker you fits you best. You can set standards for the equipment. So let's say you say a uniform has to be white and it has to have this length sleeve, and they do this in judo, they check the width of the sleeve. It can be made by anybody as long as it's made from the right materials. So the WT, in order to make money, creates deals and sponsorships and they mandate the wearing of certain equipment, which is illegal. A uniform, there's nothing more performance enhancing than the uniform that I wear, or the gloves I wear, or the shin guards I wear, or the chest protector I wear. Now you can give me a you can make an argument on the chest protector because it's a scoring mechanism. Shin guards and shin guards and arm guards. No, but it's still, if it were performance enhancing, if you say I like the cut of this chest protector, then the WT would say it has to have this amount of pounds of pressure. We're going to give you the electronics. And that's really the answer for this thing when it comes to the gloves. They can set a standard for the glove. It doesn't matter who makes it, as long as it meets the standard.

Performance Gear, Standards, And Fairness

Juan 33:17

Yeah, but that's what we're that's what we're trying to say. But unfortunately, I mean, they they don't. I mean, they have their standards. I mean, they have their their uniforms and sugar guards and equipment that are, they have certain manufacturers, they have five of them, seven of them, eight of them. I don't know how many they have. And so come on. I mean, you're gonna one of the ones are are gonna, you know, you I might like dado gloves, you might like KPP gloves. I mean, you can wear anyone you want. You there's a Chinese brand, there's a couple, there's Tucson brand, there's Muto brand, you can wear whatever you want. So I don't think that's the problem. It is performance enhancing, and they let us do that. But now, with this new glove, now with I mean, it's like uh hey, do you guys realize it's changing subject real fast? This uh this uh ice skating coach, Benoit Richard, he coaches 16 skaters from 13 countries at the Olympics. Talk about a badass. Are you allowed to do that? Yeah, apparently.

herb 34:13

It's interesting. I didn't know you were allowed to do that.

Juan 34:16

You could do it in the Olympics in Taekwondo, too. We have we've had like people.

Speaker 5 34:19

What kind of coach? What kind of coach? Is he more is he more choreography like coach, or is he like a technique coach?

Juan 34:23

Or like what is I'm I'm gonna imagine he's a technical coach.

Speaker 5 34:27

Gotta be, right?

Juan 34:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But um, no, young you people have done that in the Olympics for like uh like we had um Juan Ramos for a long time with coach, you know, athletes from uh coach uh If we coast from Norway. He had a couple different you know countries he he coached for a couple African countries too. So interesting.

Speaker 5 34:47

What did you say 13 of 16 or 16?

Juan 34:50

16 skaters from 13 countries, so maybe a couple pairs. He's gotta be a bad boy. Yeah, pretty yeah, he makes some we making some money.

herb 35:03

So he's getting paid for all that. Yeah, I'm a good idea. Well, TJ, what else you got for us today? What else you got for us today?

Speaker 5 35:10

I mean, we can I I I I think the conversation we're having about the the chess cards and and the scoring system, it's just funny because I always go back to there's a generation of kids who are gonna start sparring and doing all this stuff, and they all they've done it only on electronics, and that has to change the sport. I know you said the rules are, but I think it What's going on? I think it comes down to simply the like more the equipment than the rules. I mean, like it has to be done a certain way. It has to be, it has to look a certain way. You start to prior. I think now with our cadets and even the juniors, we start prioritizing scoring and doing things because it works in the moment as opposed to per se trying to build a taekwondo background or or a taekwondo base. Like, I don't even know if we have a tech one base anymore from the bottom.

Juan 35:52

That's a great point, you know. And that's that's I mean, I know like you, you know, teach the way you teach at your school, you know, young. And um, it it's crazy because again, now I'm gonna go back to that judo and wrestling in jujitsu. You yeah, they compete, but if you take away their competition and you see them in their gym, they're doing stuff that looks like their martial art. If you took away our sport right now and you're teaching people, you know, twist, flop, down, like that's not martial art. That's like not martial art. That's Steve Young's argument. Like, like, and you said it, you said it perfectly, TJ. You said this is not Taekwondo anymore, this is kicking sport, this is kick sport, this is electronic touch game. I don't know what it's called, but it's not taekwondo, no. It really isn't.

Coaching Across Countries

herb 36:38

But that's the point. What what is it? So, in other words, you know, and I I I have this argument all the time. Not argument, I have this take sport. I would take there's certain things I don't think should be in the Olympics, curling. I don't have no idea why it's in the Olympics. I don't understand it, shouldn't be in it. You get some get some beer, and that's what it, you know, with some drunk Canadians on the lake somewhere. Um, but with that said, what is the purpose of taekwondo at the Olympics? I mean, are we I'm gonna try to think of another Olympic sport that I find kind of laughable. Um and I can't think of one off the top of my head, but are we but you hate it at that level.

Speaker 5 37:17

I don't really dislike it at the Olympic level. I don't dislike it at the world level to a certain extent. I won't say that all the way through. To a certain extent, we're looking at the semis and finals, and like there's some decent matches. I think it's gotten progressively worse, if I'm not gonna lie to you.

herb 37:31

But I just I don't think I've tried for, and I and my wife and I can't hear you, and my wife's a regular person. My wife and I have gotten up in the middle of the night to try to watch the Olympics, the world championships, whatever was on in whatever country. We would try. We literally, and I'm telling you, my wife is the nicest person in the world, will watch anything. We watched 10 minutes and went back to sleep. That's just reality.

Electronics Shape How Kids Learn

Juan 38:00

But but it I but I think if I mean, and again, I I completely agree with you, but I would say this. I really believe it's like me watching curling. I watched curling for for two, four days now, and after a while you kind of get what's going on. I bet if you were at the tournament, and again, you just you you're forced to stay there, and you watched one of these good Iranian players, one of these decent Korean players, CJ, you watch for a little bit, you would you would have some critiques, but you would start to figure out what's what they're trying to do, what their style is. And I think as a fighter, you would appreciate it at the at the end level. I I do think you would.

herb 38:39

I'm not saying I don't appreciate it, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see any value in it. In other words, I I don't watch I don't watch baseball, right? I can't watch baseball. I I find it incredible. It's boring for me. It's boring. Okay. I watch the world championship, I watch the World Series because there's a there's nothing at stake. I watch football and I watch football for a different reason. I watch soccer, which I never could watch, by the way. Now, and this is where I'm gonna say you're right. Uh because I watch soccer because I understand the I understand the game better now and the outcomes.

Juan 39:14

Now why because people don't watch soccer in this country? Because it's too boring. Yeah, they can't stand it. They don't score, they they pass the ball backwards instead of going for it, like it doesn't make sense to them. So I I get the frustration, especially like a purist like yourself and some other people, but I I just think that there is some beauty when you watch it after a while. You could you could you will understand the nuances of it. Like I I I I completely understand what you're saying, but like I I do think if you gave it some a chance for a little while, or if you were if you were around them training for a week or a month, or you'd be like, All right, these these kids they get after it. They get after it, they they they can kick, but but we always circle back to this the scoring mechanism and the rule set uh not even allows them, it demands that they fight this certain way. Like you said, you used to always use Aaron Cook, how good he is, and he couldn't make yeah, Aaron Cook could double kick the crap out of people in the meantime. People are going cut, touch, twist, and just lighten them up. And it's it it wasn't fair, you know, with the skill set, but with the rule set and the scoring mechanism, it it certainly was, you know.

herb 40:29

Yeah, and I always feel bad for Aaron because Aaron was a wasted athlete in a generation where it would have been better if he had had more opportunity because he really was a once-in-a-lifetime athlete. Um, has Great Britain had any success recently at all? That matters, had a tough time recently.

Speaker 5 40:50

Olympic silver medal, right?

Juan 40:52

Cain Cuttion got Olympic Silver, right? Yeah, I mean he's but from the men's side, he and and Bradley Stinden was like you know, a potential gold medal, but he but he he got banged up, hurt his knee, so he didn't get anything on the woman's side. Jade was past her prime, she lost, and then uh was it Laura?

Speaker 5 41:10

Was it was it Rebecca? No, McGowan or no?

herb 41:13

Oh, it was Rebecca because that's right, because uh she beat out Bianca and maybe we maybe we should start a uh a GoFundMe to send porn stachio back to them so they could have a coach. We get porn stachio to go back um and give his finger a rest and his slapping hand. But uh that's another conversation. I was just thinking about that because you know I don't remember uh you know, first of all, you know, I wish, you know, back in the day if you got to fight uh I don't I don't remember seeing Great Britain ever make it past the when we were fighting. I don't I don't remember even seeing him, I saw him at the tournament, but and I met a couple of the nicer guys, but I don't remember them making it past first or second round. And then they had a short stint when they went into their and they found the kickboxers and everybody else and brought them in. But that strategy doesn't seem to be working for them any longer. Those outliers don't exist.

Is This Still Martial Art?

Speaker 5 42:04

That worked heavy in the beginning, though, let me tell you. It does.

herb 42:06

Well, so talk about Arlene Lemus and Juan Moreno, right? So, you know, they of course it works, right? And and then they either adapt or they die. Adapt or they die. Moreno adapted and didn't die.

Juan 42:18

Let me ask you something. You know, we talk about this athlete development stuff like that. And I know we're in a in a we're in a performance and a results-oriented world, you know. I mean, if people aren't you know getting the results, we criticize them. If they're not paying attention to them, we criticize them. So it's funny because I know we talked earlier, I think a podcast ago, that Norway has the most Olympic medals. And I pulled something up and I want to read this. I'll just read a couple slides to it. And it's pretty interesting because it talks about Norway versus the States. And he said in the U.S., they're controversial. Earn it. In Norway is uh no, let me go back here first. I'm sorry. Uh the first one is in North America, youth sports start with scoreboards, rankings, travel teams, and pressure. In Norway, no official scorekeeping until the age 13 because the child isn't a champion, isn't a champion in a championship bracket. Says when you remove the scoreboard, you remove fear. Kids stop playing to avoid losing, they start playing to explore. Process replaces outcome, and they stay longer. Uh, they talk about participation. Oh, they say the national philosophy isn't dominance, it's joy of sport. Fun comes first. When the fun disappears, kids quit. Listen to this. In the U.S., 70% drop out by the age of 13. In Norway, 93% participate. That's not soft, that's strategic. And they say specializing early, not in Norway. Kids ski, play football, run track, try handball, multiple sports, late specialization, stronger bodies, less burnout, better athletes. Absolute uh affordability, they make this affordable. Think about how much money our sports cost in America. You know it, young soccer, volleyball, hockey, taekwondo. Youth sports are kept at a low cost, accessible, and nationally supported. Talent isn't filtered by income, it's discovered by participation. Our country used to be like that, right? Kids could, you know, poor kids could play sports. That's why the inner city kids. I got a coach right now, and he talks about how as soon as he got to high-level good sports is dominated by people of privilege. I think people that have money. He is, right? They did fill it in. It's kind of true. If you have enough money to go to the camps, but there was to be other travel teams to be seen, you go to college. And maybe that kid that had a lot of talent, but could he go to the city?

Speaker 5 44:44

Go to the specialized camps. Ever gets in anything that was pretty inclusive of you having to spend hours of time.

Juan 44:50

North America builds elite nine-year-olds into 25-year-old children. All those things early Wednesday. When kids grew up in the city, I have cadets training order later. I think it's a good thing.

herb 45:05

He's back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You got them on the line, you paid the bill.

Juan 45:10

Yeah, I don't know. I it was going and then it just clicked off for a second.

herb 45:13

That's because you started sounding like bad bunny. You were like, oh, yeah.

Juan 45:19

But anyway, I just I thought that was pretty interesting.

herb 45:20

Just uh Yeah, but that's that's a that's been a problem in sport in the United States for a long time. He's gone again. He's back again. He's back. I'm doing it. I don't know, man. You're where are you? Are you back in are you in Mexico again? The uh the the idea is did he freeze again or is brain froze?

Juan 45:39

Oh look at the recording.

herb 45:41

So the the idea originally in sport was participation and participation, even the U.S. Olympic Committee looked at that and said you shouldn't specialize till you're 18. You should do a variety of sports, learn how to run fast, stop and turn, because that's gonna be valuable in virtually every sport. And but we got world champions and Olympic gold medals at 18 now. Well, the problem is look at AAU basketball. So if you don't play year-round basketball, you're not gonna play. But by the way, you get short returns, long-term failure. So you get kids who burn out by 17 or 18.

Juan 46:18

I was saying that's why the rest of the world is catching up to all of us, like in those big sports like basketball and stuff.

Purpose Of Olympic Taekwondo

Speaker 5 46:23

So I was saying for me, I know we all have well, you have cadets and we train cadets, and I and I work with cadets, and it's always it's always always like lean on the side of just pure tech one no development with those guys because I I think they spend too much time and trying to make a cadet world championship team. To me, that's crazy. The concept itself is absolutely crazy. Like we don't need a cadet world champion.

Juan 46:45

No, so I I love this conversation because we took we've criticized an organization for not paying attention to cadets and juniors. But I I want to I want to make sure I state this because my feeling is you don't have to make them the best, but I think you need to invest in them so people understand that that's our process, that we can we can go, we don't need it right now. Actually, I saw something. Do you know? I mean, and again, we talked about how Mexico's in a difficult state right now. Mexico on their junior world championship team that's happening this year, they've got seven people that were on their cadets that are now in the junior national team. I think that's starting to show some some consistency. And then maybe, I don't know, down the road in two years, three years, four years, I'm not sure how old these juniors are specifically, they will turn into good senior fighters. You know what I'm saying? Like you're starting to see some some continuity. So I agree with you, TJ. We don't need to go to world championships and win a bunch of medals as a cadet, you know.

Speaker 5 47:45

It's just the pressure you were saying about the pressure aspect of it and trying to trying to win that early, trying to accomplish something that when I see kids that who do accomplish it or you know get second or third or fall, and they're like, it's like this, like it's an overwhelming feeling. I get it. Don't get me wrong, I like winning. I I think watching these kids win and do these things, but like at the end of the day, when it comes to development, and like you said, kids quitting by the time they're 17 is literally our issue. Like it's you know, for us, it started with juniors and moved into seniors, but like there was no the cadet age, all those ages were just pure development. We fought our tournaments, we went to nationals, we trained a lot, we fought hard, and then eventually we were ready to kind of compete to make a national team. I feel like we're missing that because out the gate, that's what we're trying to do.

Juan 48:28

Think about like how the you know the average age of Olympic med Olympic medalists is getting younger, it's in the 20s and 19s and 20s 21. Um, but again, we can't even keep our people past 16, 17, right? Let alone 18 and be like somebody. So I think that you know, again, if the if the pipeline of cadets and juniors is strong, they will be willing to stay if they're being invested in. You know, we let's talk about, you know, again, USAT, for all the money that they have, supposedly, for all the great financial situation that the organization is in, better than it's ever been in the history of the sport, supposedly. They still don't have the money to invest in cadets and juniors. They have to go get an uh another organization, uh, you know, AAU, to support their cadets and their juniors.

Speaker 5 49:17

Where are the cadets? Where are the where are the cadets going this year? Is there a cadet tournament this year? So there's no cadet tournament. Nope. And and then and AU's funding the cadets, they're not funding the juniors, right?

Juan 49:26

They're fighting, they're funding the cadets next year. I'm assuming to the to the world championships. But this year, the junior world championship team is going to Uzbekistan and they're not being funded. They get, I think, their hotel paid for.

Speaker 5 49:39

You know, but and but and I had someone tell me the hotel's over there like 50, 60, 70 bucks a night. Like that's the smallest part of the investment of going all the way over there.

Juan 49:47

Yeah, I mean, I have a kid that we're, you know, we're doing a go fund me for this kid and his family, you know, to to raise some money to to help them out, you know, because it's an expensive thing.

Speaker 5 49:57

You know, it's the world championships. I don't understand.

Juan 50:01

But I like I said, I think you know, we you're right, TJ. We don't need the best cadets or the best juniors, but we do do need a pipeline. We do need to let them know that we're gonna take them to those events so they can be exposed to it, so they can kind of incrementally grow with the people that they're gonna compete against.

Speaker 5 50:17

But you know, if they have- Even if it was just a national team training camp or something together, I think that teaches them how to train, teach them how to be around, teach them how to be a part of a team, teach them how to travel, teach them how to eat, teach them how to sleep, teach them how to whatever. But it should be a part of the process. I was going to, I remember before all the selection camps, I think I went out to Olympic Training Center like three or four, five times before, and it was just for uh three, four-day, two-day training camp. And it was just regular tech mono training with no win or losses at the end. You didn't gain anything, you just went home afterwards.

MMA’s Rise And TKD’s Stall

Juan 50:46

When I made uh when I made my little comeback in 98, 99, 2000, I mean, mine was all leading up for the 2000 Olympic Games. In 1999, we went to China with the senior team and the junior team. Think about that. I mean, it is good. Going to the Olympic training center or the you know, the academy would be great with a cadet team and and take them out there and show them how these kids train, blah, blah, blah. But take them to Korea. Like take them to Mexico, take them to Turkey, take them to Uzbeka State, take them somewhere. You know, I mean, take them so that these kids can go, okay, we're not going anywhere this year for a competition, but wow, we got some valuable experience. And quite honestly, at this point, I don't think you need to go to the academy if you're a little kid because half the time you're you're not teaching. You know, you don't tell me that the Damien Vias program isn't better suited than I'm just talking for cadets and juniors than the academy. It's way better suited. The TNT brothers, you know, the the the those guys. There's you know, people up in in Washington, there's people all over this country that have very good cadet and junior programs. They don't need to be at the at the academy, but I tell you what, they could be good at is they went to Thailand or they went to Korea or they went to again, you know, Turkey. Turkey has 350 kids in a division, and cadets tell me they couldn't go there and be around 30, 40, 50 kids. That would be amazing for these guys.

Speaker 5 52:11

I mean, that's for sure, for sure. And again, I just err on the side of everything. I mean, I I just starting from white ball going all the way to the Olympic Games. I mean, you like I said, learning how to travel is important. Learning how to be around a team is important. Those are lessons that can be taught at an early, early stage, and they should be taught at an early stage because if we're talking about longevity, if we're talking about taking these kids from 11 all the way to hopefully the national team at the senior level and Olympic Games, like these interactions and these things should start earlier than later. You shouldn't be trying to figure out how to work as a team at 17, 18 years old.

Juan 52:45

Right. You know, I mean, this, I I mean, again, I'm bragging, but like, you know, the Brazil team, we're we're taking like right now, we're taking five, five up-and-coming people with us to Uzbekasan. They're not in the national team, but they're just juniors and in developing seniors. And we're just we're that's exactly what we're doing. We're exposing them to our system of of travel and and how we conduct ourselves, but also to another, you know, version of training in the world. And hopefully they can come back. We're taking a 54, we're taking a 58, we're taking a 46, we're taking a 63, we're taking a 68 and 80. Like those, and they're these aren't even you don't even know these people, TJ. They're not, you know, they're you actually you know a couple of them. But my point is there's you know, that's that's how you kind of you can start that at a cadet. You can start that at a junior. And so by the time they become 17, 18, they're almost like little professionals. That that's not the the big wow to them, you know. Hey, we we won our first match, hey, we didn't lose our first match at the world championships. They're legitimately ready to go win at 18, 19, you know, maybe females a little younger.

herb 53:59

So it's uh there's a whole study that came out, and I think I talked to you guys about this before, and it's about they looked at the predictors of athletic success, and it's a scientific study, and they went around and kind of figured it out. And when they looked at it, they looked at all the people that had been identified when they were young and um their potential to be Olympic world class and whatever it was, and it wasn't just sport, it was in a in a variety of different things, and what they found is there wasn't a whole lot of trans uh trans pipeline stuff where guys that were identified at at younger, and in fact, the ones who were making it through the pipeline were the ones that were actually older and the ones that had been identified older and didn't go through, they weren't phenoms and kids like that. So they then started to look at what was the commonality between the ones that made it through the pipeline and were older and younger, and why, because that was the thing that was more because there's always this illusion or or presupposition that if you're identified at a younger age, then you're going to naturally be better and uh you're gonna succeed at a higher, higher level. And they just didn't find that to be the case in a variety of things, not just sport, but cello, math, whatever, whatever. So there's a question of the development, and and that's why when you look at these things that are going on with um the things that you guys are talking about, and should they be going to academies, should they be funded? I absolutely believe that they should be funded. If you're gonna put the guys in there, then fund them. Just fund them. There's no reason not to fund them. I and that that should be your money.

Early Specialization And Norway’s Model

Juan 55:48

I know, like again, this this is where it's kind of an oxymoron because I've heard the same thing. There's no correlation between the the youth winners and then the eventual Olympic winners. But that doesn't mean those kids weren't starting in that pipeline. Maybe they didn't excel yet. Maybe they kind of, but they they went there, but very rarely did they start like at 15 or 16. So you do need to start them young. Teach them, like you said, teach you how to travel, how to train, how to conduct themselves, you know, you know, psychologically build them up so that they're able to withstand the ups and downs. I know in our country, in our country, people like you know, the Lopez family, you know, the sisters and the brothers, I know Peter Lopez, I know Jay Jones, I know the girl from uh Belgium, the girl from uh the new girl from Tunisia, the kids from Iran, they were all successful at the junior level and they translated into the senior level. I mean, so you're starting to see that a little bit more, not at the you're right, young, not at the cadet level, you know, but but again, I think you need to be in that pipeline and start to kind of feel better.

Speaker 5 56:54

I think I was just thinking more in development, not even about trying to get the best cadet. I'm just saying about building that base of cadets or or giving that group that is excelling, or just choosing to take the sport a little bit more serious at that level to kind of, you know, like you said, expose them to different travel, different um situations, different training, you know, and teaching them to be a little bit independent because they they, you know, that's a part of a fighting sport too. I think we're in a little different spar than you know, soccer or baseball or basketball. Like you, these kids are gonna go fight someone from another country with all the ideas and stipulations in their head of this country's like this, there's country's like this. And I think we just used to do a way better job at kind of bringing everyone together and obviously funding the team because if you make any national team in a sport, they should pay for you to travel to the international event that you qualify for.

herb 57:39

That's just like you know, it's a given, but yeah, that's a given.

Speaker 5 57:42

That's a given.

Juan 57:43

That should be a given, but that should be a given, isn't it? Well, it was yeah, yeah, it was it was. That's what that's what I'm saying. I guess that's what drives me. I talked to someone recently and they were talking about how good financially the organization is doing. But I'm like, if they're doing so well, then why aren't they paying for these other people? Like, I I just I don't get it. Why are you looking for another organization to come in? You know, I know you want to work with this other organization. That's fine. I okay, cool, no problem. But why are they paying for your stuff? Why are they paying for your own?

Speaker 5 58:14

But in the meantime, we're looking, we're looking for a new, we're looking for a new coach, which obviously wouldn't impose a salary, right? So we're looking to spend money on more staff and uh running the team like that. Whatever money, just take it and pay for the team. It's it's I don't think you guys need more coaches. I'm just saying, you know what I mean? Like what are we what are we what are we talking about?

herb 58:33

We're rolling up on an hour knowing that we try to keep these things to an hour so people don't get bored.

Juan 58:37

We gotta make next week next week, next week we'll talk about they released the uh the coaches for the coaching staff for the for the world championships. And uh I'll next week I'll have a a nugget for you guys about some international athletes.

herb 58:52

Did I make did I make the did I make the list? All right, this has been the warehouse 15. We are uncut, beautiful, staying the same. And as bad bunny would say, yo, yo, yo, we are out. All right, I'll get this up and running.