Please Hold While We Mismanage Your National Team

They say there’s a pipeline. We ask: for whom? We sit down with a veteran coach and military program alum to unpack how American taekwondo’s governance, funding, and selection choices determine which athletes thrive—and which never get a fair shot. From AAU’s leadership shift to USAT’s revolving selection criteria, we examine why rules keep moving, how conflicts of interest creep in, and what happens when private club priorities bleed into national team decisions.

Across the hour, we press into the moments that sting: a six-figure allocation landing where it’s least urgent while juniors sell popcorn to travel; seasoned coaches with proven results passed over for national roles; top athletes shielded from domestic trials while others chase expensive ranking points. If sport is supposed to be merit-based, why are the most decisive fights happening outside the ring?

We make the case for restoring clarity and courage. That means public, stable selection criteria that reward head-to-head wins; round-robin formats when fields are small; and training camps that push athletes beyond comfort—Korea, Mexico, Turkey—so pressure is a habit, not a surprise. We revisit WCAP’s rise and stall as a cautionary tale about what happens when a program that wins isn’t the program in the room. And we challenge the familiar plea for “unity” when unity becomes a reason to stay quiet: real unity serves athletes first, not agendas.

If you care about athlete development, national team integrity, and a U.S. system that actually earns its results, this conversation lays out the problems and the path forward. Listen, share with your team, and tell us: what’s the one rule or process you’d rewrite today? Subscribe, leave a review, and join the push for merit, transparency, and results that stand up anywhere.

Transcript

Cold Open And Introductions

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Feeling happening stronger. Sorry, not sorry. Wish I could say I'm sorry, not sorry. Feeling happening stronger.

herb 0:09

It is a warehouse fifteen uncut and you know what we do here and you know what we always say and start with. So let me preface it by saying the things we say here are strictly the opinions of Grandmaster Moreno and TJ, and certainly not mine. But it should any of those things offend you. Oh well, sorry, not sorry. We are proud and happy. I'll let my colleagues uh introduce our guests. It's from a rare time and a rare place that we have people that are willing to come out and share time with us. But more importantly, it's a rare time that we invite people. It's a testament to who they are. How is everybody today? Grandmaster of disaster here with Coach Moreno. What's going on?

Juan 0:50

I just uh I'm still gleaming over the USA men's hockey game the other day. Me and TJ were going back and forth screaming. It was pretty cool. What a great story with uh what the young man that unfortunately got ran over when he was riding his bike. They brought his kids out there. It was just a terrible it was a great, great win for USA, first time in 46 years, so that was cool. On Saturday, you know, you know, un you know, some people think that I I don't like certain people, uh certain Asians, but I went to a a uh a very nice martial art tournament of one of my Asian friends that happened to be Korean, where I saw Grandmaster Sa, Master Byeung Kim, Master Ro, uh Master Honky Kim from Venezuela. A lot of my friends.

herb 1:34

Did you see did you see Bader? Did you see Master Bader?

Juan 1:38

No, I didn't see him. I saw all my Asian friends. And since you know, some people said that I I I don't like uh Korean Americans, I thought it was pretty uh funny that I was there. But no, the funny thing was I got to coach some a couple like yellow and orange belts. It was just it was crazy, it was so much fun just to kind of be there with these little like four or five year olds. I had to yell at a couple referees, you know what I'm saying? But uh it was it was fun, it was fun. I believe it, I believe it.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

They'll make you the most mad with the yellow belt matches.

Juan 2:08

Man, man.

Guest Background And Coaching Roots

SPEAKER_06 2:09

Anyway, how about you, TJ? What's up? I'm good, chilling, chilling. We just started the week. It's only only Monday here. I know in some other place like California, it's probably already Wednesday or something like that. You know, he's done it with the whole Dovaco. I don't know what vibe he's bringing with us tonight, but I'm good, I'm good, I'm excited to be here. I think we have some good conversations lined up for tonight. And um TJ. Yeah, I'm uh what's up? I knew it. See? See what I mean? It's a Dovak, sir. What is your respect? Oh, I thought.

Juan 2:40

So let me uh let me let me introduce our guest, our longtime friend, um uh person that's been around TikWonder for a long time, Master Ron Barry from Florida here. Um, Ron, we're we're super happy to have you. Um, like TJ said, we have some uh some cool some cool topics to kind of get into, I think that you'll you'll enjoy stuff like that. But hey, before I mean obviously we know you for many, many years, but just give us a little a quick little background on you. You know, you're I know you've you're you're really uh uh big in because you were in the former military you were a former military person and you have a long extensive uh time in in the martial arts and stuff like that. Just give us a quick little background on yourself, so you know, for some of our friends out there that may not know you.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah, I came up, you know, with under John Park, you know. Uh he didn't really get into the tournament scene, but you know, he had a lot of guys that did well in the sport, you know, William Felton that went to the second world games. He was one of our, you know, he's my big big brother. Actually lives out in California after Wahb now. Um really? Yeah, he sure does down in uh LA area. Sure does. So uh he I don't think he practices anymore though. But uh you know, Laney came out of that school, Bobby Hong, you know, um uh Philip Young, you remember Philip? You know, so yeah, we've had a few of us, you know, that did well. You know, I kind of stayed in the military side of it, so you know that's that was my game. Um then I kind of went back in the military and did the armed forces thing, then came back into coaching. As you know, Juan, I did pretty well in the coaching field. Put a lot of people on the team and stuff through the years. So WCAP, Armed Forces all the way, right, TJ?

SPEAKER_06 4:27

Yes, sir, always one team, one fight. I think Coach Randall's frozen.

herb 4:32

I thought he was just I thought he was paying with rapted intention. I thought he was he looked to me like he was so in uh listening with such intensity, but now I do realize it was atypical of his usual ADD manner. So he'll click back in here in a minute.

SPEAKER_06 4:50

But uh yeah, defin yeah, definitely though. I think we'll get we'll get into some of the a little bit later in the podcast. So I'm excited to have that conversation with you. We've had a couple um people actually ask questions in the podcast on on Facebook about you know what happened to WCAP and all army and our forces. So I think we'll get to have a conversation back and forth. It'll be kind of a good little conversation for us to have.

Juan 5:12

So hey, uh you don't have to mention any names or anything like that, but I I was I was telling these guys off air when you had like a uh a little conversation with somebody that was talking to you, you know, on on social media a number of years ago, and then uh you finally got a you know have a little meeting with them at uh in a at a friendly situation.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Yeah, you remember that's a different story when they're in their face, isn't it? Those sugar changes them out help real good, huh?

Juan 5:43

That's funny. That's some funny stuff. But TJ, what what uh what do you want to talk about first? What do you what do you want to get into first?

AAU Shift And Leadership Vacuum

SPEAKER_06 5:50

Uh I mean, we can just kind of start with um, I know his, you know, I know you've had some issues with um let's start with the AAU stuff, I think. I think, you know, I know you've been a little bit very vocal with us, along with us about all the AAU stuff going on. I know you have uh a little bit more of uh inside kind of take on all the from the even from the governance stuff to all the things like that, and kind of like big picture for you, like where do you think all this stuff is? I know we know I I think go ahead.

Juan 6:16

Yeah, let me let me I I want to say something, you know, you know, me and Ron have known each other. I I'm I know Ron, you know, from when I was competing back in the early 90s, 90, 91, 92, because the Florida group, you know, I had a couple guys that I, you know, kind of butted heads with. He knew John Rocher and all those kind of kids, and yeah, when they were coming up.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So yeah, yeah.

Juan 6:34

So I I we we've known each other for almost 40, you know, almost 40 years, you know. So it's been a it's been a long time, and we've kind of uh it's been interesting to kind of you know go through some of the things. And now recently, you know, with the AAU situation, I know you've been both with USTU, USAT, AAU, you've kind of been through the gamut and stuff like that. But you know, currently right now, obviously the hot topic for us, for TJ and myself, has been the AU, right? And we've been working with them for a number of years, and all of a sudden recently we've been, you know, uh suspended. Um, we're going through uh uh a process right now to to see if we can get that change, but at the same time, we don't know where it's at. So I mean, just in a quick snapshot, what's your take on all that? You know, I mean, we can we can feed you some stuff, but you know, I know you've kind of been looking at it from from the outside.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Well, it's pretty sad because you know, when I first came back into the AU, because I didn't want no part of USAT no more due to the politics and all, you know, it was under a different new leadership that came in. And of course, I was recruiting for WCAP a little bit with b uh David Bartlett. And um, you know, I I saw some talent there, you know, some kids coming through, and then I decided, you know, get back in the game and and and of course bring some of our athletes in there. And of course they were going to team trials and stuff. And you know, the association really grew and had, you know, a nucleus of good people that was really trying hard that was more for the athletes and all. And you remember I talked to you, Juan, about coming in, possibly. You know, I I got David Otabo, Peter B, and then and when they all came in, they all said, You're right, Ron, they changed here and they were more for the athletes, you know, and they really grew. And when you think about it these last few years, AAU was kicking USAT's ass. Let's be still being blunt about it. Let's be frank, right? Um so you know, I I went away a little about a bit for the you know, on the contract, came back, and of course there was a changeover happened, and now there's just like what happened here, you know, because uh the associates was going forward and all of a sudden you regress and taking back seats, you know, and these people and like I have to agree with Mr. Perez, you know. Who the hell is Dave uh Clinton know? I mean, how many years have we been in it? We never heard of this guy. I mean, you know, he comes out of nowhere, and from what I gather, he's just a business guy, you know, he goes around and giving inspiration business seminars and stuff like that. So he's not really a taekwondo guy, uh Taekwondo guy to me, you know. So it's just a sad situation, then you know, find out, you know, they go into a meeting, come out, you know, and damage you and parents, you know, career basically, you know.

Juan 9:22

Um let me let me ask you something. Do you you remember in 2000? I mean, I know her was really, you know, directly involved, but you were you you you saw what was going on. Remember in 2004 when US USTU was decertified, right? Yeah. And then they came up with you know the new name USA Taekwondo. Do you remember at that time they put a I was actually one of five people on a governments and management board, but there was a new board installed and stuff like that. And do you remember? I I called it like the wild, wild west, because all of a sudden all these nobodies wanted to become somebodies and they were running out for board positions and they're trying to trying to be important. And I don't want to say names, you know, but there was a bunch of them out there, and it it took a while to kind of shake them out and kind of get things going again. And I and I almost feel like that with when the when the past leadership was you know removed, stepped away, whatever you want to say, um all of a sudden there was like it was leaderless, you know. And you know, a guy here from Florida who's, you know, my friend, you know, was was trying to to help. There was a guy from Michigan that was trying to help, and all of a sudden there's this guy from New York that's in there. It just seems like it was it's leaderless right now, and it's nothing against the people personally, it's just that they don't have a whole lot of institutional knowledge, you know. I mean, one runs a very good tournament, really good tournament. Uh, one is a I guess I I can't even say he's a good businessman because his father built a business. He didn't build a business. Does he manage the business now? Apparently he does, but that doesn't mean you can run an organization. I mean, I think they've already like tripped over their feet so many times in a matter of what, two months, three months?

SPEAKER_06 10:57

It's it's just it's pretty from from what I understand is like even when he came in and they that position he has currently, I can't think of the name of it, it didn't exist before him. No, that's a that's a just you know, director of martial arts, director of martial arts didn't exist before, but it didn't exist before him.

Juan 11:12

And what I think is interesting, he's a director of martial arts, but he seems to be the director of Taekwondo specifically, right? It seems like he's the one calling the shots, and then the chairman is just kind of following through with his directions.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Yeah, well, the the chairman has uh slaughtered some programs already. He's cut programs through Ellix, of course, you know. And um, so you depleted these programs, but now you're feeding into the USAT. You're pushing referees to become members of USAT and pay their certification for referees, you know. So, I mean, again, where's the return value to the AAU? It seems that all the funding now is going towards USAT. I mean, they put up a hundred thousand dollars for the cadets just like that.

Money, Influence, And Conflicts

SPEAKER_06 11:58

Ahead of time. I don't even understand that. I still don't even understand, I still can't wrap my mind around why it exists.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Yeah, you know what's interesting. Clinton has called people and asked them how do I know about that money? And you know what they don't realize is like you three sitting there, how long have we been in this canoe club? Let's put let's be frank about it. You know, I was a voting athlete one time at a USTU. You know, I probably made some uh good, you know, connections there. I was a national coach with the armed forces team. You know, we became friends, right? And just like May called me when uh you know, when they had a meeting and I I showed her the photocopy of the meeting, you know, after about 30 minutes after they came out of that, and she goes, How'd you get this? I said, Come on, May. Everybody goes in that media board of governors. When those athletes come out, they call their coaches, they t they show their coaches everything and it just filters out. So there's no secrets, you know. There's no secrets. We all know what goes on.

Juan 12:58

That's the funny thing. I mean, these I mean, and there shouldn't be secrets like see okay. If if you just are if you're on the up and up, if you're a transparent, you're you're you're keeping everything out in the open, then there's nothing to there's nothing to hide, right? You don't need to transparency is just kind of you see what we're doing, you know, and it seems like there's always these little backdoor conversations. I mean, you know, to get you know, where did all this start? This started with these two organizations getting together, colluding to to give TJ an ultimatum. That's where this, I mean, this is not that's not where this thing started because it started way before that. Uh as you know, separately. But when they got together, this is what's happening. And and the sad part of it is it's just brand new leadership. Like you you said that at the beginning, Ron. Like, where is the benefit for AAU? What is AAU getting out of this? Oh, they get they get the number eight seed in the in the cadets juniors, maybe and seniors at the team trials. All those people are already qualified at the USAT level anyway. Like, that's just a we don't have that many people.

SPEAKER_06 14:01

Yeah, that's a big crop. We don't have that many people that are gonna affect that number, anyways. And even still, why number eight? Number eight, why number eight? Like, that makes no sense whatsoever, you know? And again, I I know the the cadet team's not doing much this year, but even still, the fact that it's for me, the fact that it's public knowledge that you know that this hundred thousand dollars has been shifted over and and and and put and given to USAT is just strange to me.

Juan 14:27

There's a conflict of interest or is this an ethical thing? Do you know how old Clinton's kids are? Cadets.

SPEAKER_06 14:37

Me? Uh I don't know. Oh cadets. Why not?

Juan 14:41

I mean why not? I mean, it's this year. Juniors need money this year. Why didn't AU fund this year? If you already gave the money, if you would have said we'll have it next year, if they gave the money this year, 100 G's up front, which I don't know. I I heard that. I don't know if they if they got it already, but let's say they did. Why wouldn't that go to this junior team? I got a kid that his family don't have money. He just made the junior national team, and we're doing GoFundMe. We're selling popcorn. Right. We're trying to trying to get this kid money.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

So his for junior worlds.

Juan 15:14

Junior Worlds. Huge event. And next year, you're gonna give the money the cadets need money next year too. But if USAT is so in the black, if they have so much extra money, they have so much surplus, why aren't why aren't they why aren't they funding these kids?

SPEAKER_03 15:31

That's a good question. I don't know.

Juan 15:34

Yeah, I mean, no one answers that. Nobody answers that. But but then the rumor is again, this is a rumor, speculation, that they're gonna go. Well, it's not speculation because they said they were looking for another coach. They're gonna spend money on another coach, right? Well, that could be this ridiculous.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

Well, they said that. They said that they put out a whole global search for the coach. So that's that's converted and that's on them.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

There's no business I know that will, you know, a real business. If someone's underperforming, you get rid of them and you hire somebody else. You don't keep the people, you know, and we both know both these guys are making what, a hundred grand each now, Paul and Brown. Is that what I heard?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

And then it doesn't make sense to me to have a guy that's sitting over in in England most of the time, and then they pay for his flights, come back and forth to the States. Or they did, unless they changed it. But you know, if he's the net head coach, he should be over here in the U.S., not in England. He shouldn't just come back here for competition.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Well, especially now. They hijacked this national team system a long time ago. Think about when all this first started in 2017, when basically they came over or had people over here telling them who were our best athletes and who should go here and who should do that. And they took them all from the United States of America over to England to train over there. They've they've hijacked, as I said a long time ago, this system's been hijacked. Like they've they circumvented all of our selection processes when it came to selecting people who should be funded, who should travel, who should compete, and took them out of the country, trained them somewhere else, changed the whole dynamic, and and now we're here, which is which is no shock that they're not following any rules whatsoever. They haven't been doing it since they got here.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

And only went to 25th level under you know, world championships. What I mean, you can't be proud of 25th position at world championships.

Juan 17:28

That's what I was gonna go with that. Like, so for example, they're trying to like have their cake and eat it too. They're trying to say our athletes do this, the rest of you athletes, uh, US athletes do that, but their job is all America. Am I right? Or are they supposed to only just do their private club? Because that's what it seems like how they're acting. They're just doing their private club of the academy, which happens to be all the best talent in America right now. Bring them over there, and then they want to take credit for that. But if your your job was to create a pipeline for all athletes at all levels, that's what you guys said. We are going to train your, we're gonna expand your your pipeline. You're gonna have four deep in each Olympic or each weight category. And here we are, seven years in.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Seven years in, and now they're where's all those regional training centers they said promise.

SPEAKER_06 18:22

They just talked about those again. We're they're back telling this story again. We're doing this again.

Selection Procedures And Moving Goalposts

SPEAKER_03 18:26

I don't know if people are paying attention or not, but remember all those coaches they selected, they all checked out, didn't they? You know, and I know I shouldn't say this, but you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna say it anyway. Just like in Texas, Gianni down there held, you know, because he was selected as one of the regional coaches, right? So you had an event where they raised funds. I think uh if I remember right, it was 25 grand that came in. So they go in the office and Gianni tells Steve, hey, how about you know, you we made us money, how about throw a couple grand for, you know, a local guy here. So you sit they see that uh something good's coming out of the region too, right? Giving to the region. So they go out there and make an announcement and everybody's pumped up, right? Steve takes the money, takes off. Johnny don't hear anything for a couple of months. He calls him, Steve goes, Well, I think we can give him a t-shirt. So basically the promises were broken again, you know. You you can't go by what they say. Yeah.

Juan 19:30

Well, I mean, I I this has one been one of my pet peeves. I mean, I mean, they've tinkered and changed the the selection procedures, I believe, every year that they've had it, you know, for the last six years or seven years. It's it's literally the selection procedures.

SPEAKER_06 19:48

It always been but it always benefits them. At one point it was top ten or top six because they knew only their guys could potentially obtain those positions. Now it's top ten because their guys are already qualified for this. It's always about where they are in their room at the time and what they're trying to accomplish. And right now it's a it's a crapshoot with the Pan Am Championships because everybody gets to go to the Pan Am Championship. Let's be honest. You can get a wild card at the Padam Championships or pulling a stick off a Slurpee Cup these days. You never know, you might be there. So I mean, it just is what it is. But that's an easy, it's easy to see if you look at it from that standpoint. Every year our rules have changed and it always helps out their particular route.

Juan 20:25

Yeah, yeah. Actually, speaking of Gianni Gianbi, actually, I was gonna talk about that because I I I know there was recently they put out the coaching staff, which, oh, by the way, Moss TKD uh put out the USAT's coaching staff, which again, they've never done that before. I think it's kind of funny that they they publicized it. But, you know, I I looked at the they have the senior, the Pan Am staff, the junior team staff, the cadet team staff, and I'm like looking at this and I go, again, I I I man, people I don't want to make this personal because the people actually on the staff, all of them, I respect well, all of them except for one, I respect. I I like what they do, I like what they've done. I think, you know, even if I don't like them personally, I can I can respect what they've done. But I find it hard to believe that Johnny Jombi is not on that, on that staff, especially on the junior staff. I mean, he's the only coach that has in the last, what is it, cadet junior, and cadet world championship medals. He's got probably the best kid on the junior team. Um you know, uh Josh Alade has the best chance of winning a medal. I mean, he's damn a man child. He fights in the upper you know, heavier weight categories. And and and he can't even sniff either any of those teams. Like, he's the kind of guy I think he's frozen, he'll probably be back. He's the kind of guy that can definitely help that that junior team. He's got experience, he knows the lay of the land, he knows coaches internationally.

unknown 21:59

I I I

Juan 22:00

I think he deserves to be there.

SPEAKER_06 22:02

You got and listen, I I and I think we talked about a little bit. You got guys that have been quote unquote a part of their coaching system since 208, 2017, 2018, been traveling with them, having got going to the training camps, going to different uh international competitions, having their guys with them. Um, and and those guys can't, he like those guys can't even get a shot at the the the senior national team coaching staff. When I think for him exactly, I'm talking about TJ Curry. He has two people on the the the senior national team. He has two. He is a he's a coach at a university that has a full-time training program at this point. He's been around there since 2017, and you're gonna tell me it that you can't he can't get a spot on the team? Only in comparison when I look at the whole rest of the list. Let's just be real.

Juan 22:46

Yeah. No, no, again, listen, I'm not saying he's the best coach. I'm not saying he's the worst coach. I'm just saying I'm not saying any of that, but I agree with you, TJ. He's got two people on the national team. He's worked for USA Taekwondo. He's taken athletes to Korea on their behalf. He's done everything that he's they've asked him to do, and he can't get in the team. Why?

herb 23:08

Who's picking this team? Yeah, not the brightest people, though.

Juan 23:11

Young, I get it, but but the other people on that staff, you can't say that they're more complex. No, they're not better. They're not better.

herb 23:16

But that's not that's by no stretch of the imagination our best and brightest.

Juan 23:22

No, no, I listen again, I'm not.

SPEAKER_06 23:24

Yeah, but I'm just trying to figure out what game they're playing. We always talk about, you know, we we talk about like nepotism, we talk about, you know, them selecting their team, and I just think they're just they're they're just reckless at this point. They're not, there's no benefit to anybody that goes into that room except for the people they want close enough that ain't gonna open their mouth when they do stupid shit. That's the only reason, that's the only thing that makes sense.

Juan 23:42

I ain't trying to put out, you know, other people's you know stuff, but didn't you say something, TJ, that like the there was something that was considered for when it, you know, when it kind of came to to uh TJ.

SPEAKER_06 23:55

Yeah, I just yeah, stuff from the past. Yeah, something with traveling and stuff like that. But like even even even still that like that that to me just seems a little bit unfair. And I know that situation at hand, and I I know it it's kind of it's it's bothersome to him, but it like I told him a long time ago, I've had a a um a long-standing relationship with him. I've we've talked since about 2018 when I was at the World Championships and not being funded, and and they were there and all that stuff. He's always been a pretty stand-up guy with me and kind of told me this is what's going on, this is how it is, this is this is where we are. And I remember that whole thing with him not being able to attend a trip because of a wedding kind of comes back and and it's like, oh well, because you couldn't go on this trip three years ago, two years ago, now that came up into conversation when selecting this team. The fact that that could ever be said, it is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And I don't mean to, I don't mean to talk, like you said, I don't mean to talk about other people's stuff, but like I think people need to understand this is not about me trying to fight up to be on a national team. It's not trying to you try to be on a national team. This is literally just watching coaches get screwed over and them selecting random ass people. And I don't, I'm gonna say it, random ass people. We talk about the cadet teams, but now we got people on the cadet teams that the director of AAU is literally family members with. And that it wasn't like that last year, it wasn't like that the year before. And now that's where we're sitting. You just gotta open your eyes a little bit and you you can see what game we're playing right now. It makes no sense.

Juan 25:18

And again, I mean they they've used everything to say, oh, you don't have experience, but yet they put unexperienced people on there, inexperienced people. They say, Oh, you haven't been in our pipe, our coaching pipeline, but then you got people like you know, TJ Currier, who is one of the first people in their coaching pipeline, you know. For this matter, I mean, I gave I I criticized the U21 staff and I used Hansel as a as an uh example. And again, it was uh everyone I've said it many, many times. I liked him so much, but I'm like, I just did that was just strange to me. But okay, be have some consistency. Why isn't he on this staff? If you're truly trying to build him to be one of the coaches, why isn't he on the cadet staff or junior staff or or senior staff as a trainer, as a paddle holder, as an whatever you want? Like if you're Nick, where's the consistency?

Coaching Staff Choices And Merit

SPEAKER_06 26:07

You know, because these these positions are are like popcorn lottery. You know what I mean? It's it's a popcorn lottery. It's the well, you know, hopefully these guys will support us and be next to us, and you know, they've shaken enough hands and they've been at enough seminars and they've interacted enough and now they they kind of like them, and now we're here. And I'm not again, I'm not knocking what you guys do, I'm not knocking what you're capable of doing, I'm not knocking your programs. I just know for a fact if anyone can sit here and argue back with me and tell me that that looks doesn't look funny to you, then we we should have a conversation and y'all know where I always am. But it's it's absolutely absurd, and it changes like you said, the the selection procedures change every year for the athletes, the coaching chat change every year. It's been seven years of inconsistency across the board.

Juan 26:46

It and even even even next year, like next year has already you know changed again because you know US Open is uh as a point total, you know, it's it's it's the highest ranking uh event of of their of their new point system. And again, I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but it wasn't like that last year. It was just a if you got gold medal, you got a chance in the wild card. But now it's actually part of points, it's part of the point system. So it's just it's just I said it before.

SPEAKER_06 27:13

You can't create a selection system that you are funding people to travel and get the things that are on the selection system. They put out a long list of what they were gonna do for the 2028 Olympic qualifications, what it would take to qualify for the Olympic team from now to 2028. And all those events are on there. Obviously, some are world team events like world championships, Pan Am Championships, Grand Prix, all those things like that. But also it's open finishes, G2 finishes, things that are being funded by them. You that can't even be in our selection procedure if you, the organization, are funding those things. Yeah, like like we I don't know, I remember OTC used to exist, but we didn't have 19 different tournaments throughout the year that we had to go to. It was states, nationals, team trials, and you always got a shot at those guys at team trials. Whether you could say the system was rigged, whether you could say they wanted them to win, guess what? They had to walk out there to the ring every single year and stand across from you. And that was the only hope, not the only hope, but that was the thing you held on to at the end of the year. You knew that no matter how good you think they are, how much you think they get, how much extra help they get, they gotta stand in front of you at the end of the year. And now we've taken our top people out of the system. They don't gotta fight no more. Like, why are we not fighting a year for a tournament that doesn't matter? Why are we not showing the membership that they can get next to these guys that we're funding or that are funded? Why not?

Juan 28:29

You know, talking about the staff and stuff like that, like I want to know like what they told, well, actually, do I know? The cadet team this year technically has nothing to go to. There's no Pan Ams. I mean, there should be, but there isn't. So the cadet team, what do they even do? Are they gonna, you know, do a training camp, you know, at the academy? Are they gonna? I mean, I heard they might go to that North American Open, which is in Sarasota. It's like a G1 open, but you can I'm sure it'll cost a hundred thousand dollars though. Yeah, I mean who knows? Who knows? I it just again, you know, I think we're the chaoticness of all of this, you know, of of the of the organization on one side and then the AU stuff with us on the other side. It's just uh I think it's weak leadership, if you ask me. I think it's just you know a lot of uncertainty. And here we are. Here we are.

SPEAKER_06 29:26

I got I got a question. I I think uh actually Don Lewis um and Stephanie actually put up something about a they thought about something about a coaching selection for procedures for for coaches, like as far as like how you go about that. What did you what was there a system in place before? Like was there a somehow it was selected, or how did you guys go about doing that?

Juan 29:46

I know for for a long time we uh yearly we created a coaching staff, right? We had a pool of coaches, and to quite honestly, I mean I don't remember how many it was, but it was a it was a pretty good significant number. It was like 15 or something like that. Like it was basically the best coaches, you know, and every once in a while there would be a wild card, somebody that would um put a couple people on the team, and we always made space for that. So we had our consistent coaches, like for example, uh for the most part, me and Gene went to on a lot of on a lot of things. Sometimes he didn't go, but I I almost went to everything. And then we would put someone that was either good in cadet, or we didn't have cadets at that time, good in juniors or better with the seniors, and then uh Hyungi's uh I think he's trying to get in.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

I don't see him.

Juan 30:32

You sure? It says waiting for host to let in.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

He might have gone into the old link. He didn't go into this link.

Juan 30:40

I put the second link.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Give it to you again, send it to him.

Juan 30:45

Um, so we would you know I I always thought it was important to kind of you know try to make your best, you know, get your best coaches, like your best coaches, just like sometimes people say, hey, you try to get the best athletes, the best football players on your team, and then put a make a winning formula. I always try to get the best coaches that we could, but I always left room for that that random person, that random athlete that would make the team, and you know, John Smith out of Nebraska. And you know what? We'd bring his coach, you know, to so that that kid had, you know, a representative, you know, that kid had, you know, someone that he could you know look at and feel comfortable with. All right.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Go like this.

Juan 31:33

I mean that would be my that would be my that that's what we do with in Brazil right now. We have our coaching staff, we have you know some of the best coaches in the country. I mean, I think clear, and I'm sure there's some other decent ones, some other good ones, but we always leave a spot open for somebody to come in. Look at it, look at Maria Claudas.

SPEAKER_06 31:52

That's what I was about to say.

Juan 31:54

Maria Clauda, her coach is he's a brand new coach. He was under another group of people that that club got disbanded, broken up, whatever. And when it all shook out, he was there and he was coaching Maria, and he ended up you know coaching, you know, a couple other people. And we brought him, we brought him so that she could have someone directly related with her.

SPEAKER_06 32:17

And that's when you're looking out directly for the athletes. That's when you're focused on helping the athlete help the country and all everybody's playing on the same.

Juan 32:24

TJ, you know whose athlete that was supposed to be for? Who's supposed to sit in her chair? Me. Me. And I had the I had the ability to say, keep them or not keep them. I could be in the chair. Come on, Maria's good. I think I I I could coach Maria. She speaks English, she listens extremely well, she's a smart woman. No problem. Every time we work together, no problem. But I can't say that I'm better fit than you know than he is. So bring him along. No problem. He could take the pictures, he could be in the in uh in the highlights. I mean, it's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do. So anyway, when I see a guy like going back to Johnny Jambi, I say, he's gotta be in there. You gotta you gotta put him in there, you gotta put him on that staff. He's got experience, he's got one of the better players, he's gotta be there.

SPEAKER_06 33:13

And you could do that, you know, they're not looking for it, but the problem is they're not looking for experience. I mean, like, I mean, you got you got like Coach Osvani, you got people that have actually been an assistant for a long time from the past, a Pedam Games medalist, like uh Cuban national team for so long. Uh successful school put people on a cadet team, has traveled with with with tops programs and and AAU national teams and actually have been around the structure for so long, and those type of people can't make the national team, they have no value to the organization. Just just you can't tell me that you looked at a list. That's why I put I was trying to get it like show the list. I think you show everybody the list, everyone's gonna sit back and scratch their head. Like, what how do we get here? Because it doesn't make any sense. It can't make any sense. I know too many people that qualif that uh that are qualified that put in applications for those coaching positions.

Juan 34:04

Who do you think uh like who do you think is picking picking, picking the team?

SPEAKER_06 34:11

Shh, it's probably a clusterfuck of people. Landon, uh probably Nikki in there doing her thing. Uh, but at the end of the day, I don't think there's anyone else to blame but Steve McNally, because I know at the top he's the one, he's the puppet master. He's pulling the strings, he's saying yes or no at the end of the day. So for me, that's what it feels like.

WCAP History And Systemic Roadblocks

Juan 34:28

You want you to talk about you know a cluster. So uh Ron, I'll tell you this, and T D, you know this, you know her young I already told you about this. So I'm reading a deposition that was uh on a on a on a case that was already um already um finished. It there's already been a decision made. And I'm reading a deposition, and it's it's it's from Steve McNally. And they're asking Steve McNally about I don't know, like the coaching structure in the United States, and somehow, this has nothing to do with me, somehow it gets to me. And the the council asks something like, you know, if he knows me, and he's like, Yeah, we're friendly or we're not but we're not colleagues or something like that. He's like, okay. And then he said, the guy, the the council says, Is is one moreno a good coach? He's like, I think he's one of the best coaches in in the country. I'm kind of like, okay. Then the next question is so would Coach Moreno be as qualified as anybody in the world to coach in the United States? And he says, Well, that's subjective. And then he says, he's like, Is he is he as good as anybody else in the world? No, I don't think so. This this depot was taken in 2022. So let's say three years he's been there, three years he's been at the CEO, has no sporting background at all, no martial art background, not a karate, not judo, not no martial art background in a matter of three years, even let's just say four for the sake of the conversation. He's an authority on who's a good coach, not just domestically, but in the world. He can he can he can compare someone like myself to the world level. Like the arrogance, the arrogance of somebody like that. Like that's just crazy. I I don't care how much I study soccer, I can't, I couldn't compare uh an American soccer coach to all the coaches in the world and say he's good or not good. She's qualified or not qualified. I mean, that's crazy. That's uh that's a pretty uh arrogant person, if you ask me. But that's just me. Anyway, let's get back to Mr.

SPEAKER_06 36:48

Berry. No, you're back now. Wapping, you had to go uh we took a little break.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Did you get a call from USAT, told you to stop, you know, told you to get off the phone? Did they give you ultimatum? Not today. Not today. Maybe you people.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

The last phone conversation I had with Steve was about Terrence, actually.

SPEAKER_06 37:06

How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

That's when they uh pulled that card out and said you couldn't coach at the Pan American because you wasn't qualified. I remember that. And uh I made a big thing on the Facebook and all, he called me at home, and I was like, because I remember I said, Well, your brick coaches are not qualified. And he goes, how can you say that? I said, because they didn't do any of the procedures to become a qualified US coach. And he goes, but they're Olympic coaches. And I said, it doesn't matter. They didn't meet the USAT's qualifications, so they didn't follow the protocol, you know.

SPEAKER_06 37:41

What year was that? That was in 2019? 2019.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Yeah, 2019.

SPEAKER_06 37:46

I had it was it was Paige and David Kim on the on the Padam Games team. And he's gonna be able to get away. Which I went to the qualifiers though.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yeah, he promised me he would make Terrence a coach. And I remember I I told you, Terrence, I I I wrote you on uh private, uh, you know, about that conversation.

SPEAKER_06 38:03

I remember. I remember, I remember, I remember. And that that and that's where my problem, that's where my problem comes in in. It's like I've I'm watching these people get selected for coaching stats, I and I know the stories I've been told about not being qualified, not being ready, not being, not, not, not being um in the right place to coach at these events or all this stuff like that. I like I know I've said it before, but I've I had coached at a grand prix to a gold medal finish at a grand prix prior before this whole situation. Like, it don't get it, it doesn't get any more blatant than that. And I got an Olympian who you're talking about, you know, putting someone that's good for them in the chair. You got an organization fighting against her to for her to go out there and train with them and want them next to her because that's what they want. Not what she wants, not what's going to be best for her to succeed, but what they want and what they needed to happen.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

But but they didn't want to coach her because they were they didn't train her. Remember? Yep, they made it well known. They're not gonna coach Paige unless she goes to the academy. I don't know. And then they started coaching everybody in the national team. If you're the pan coach of the US team, it doesn't matter who's if they make the national team, you better coach them. You can't make the decision and say, well, I don't feel like coaching this guy because he's not training with me at the academy. That's wrong. What are you being paid for?

SPEAKER_06 39:21

This is your this was her, this was their our Olympian chasing top six points at the time. And this, this, this, this ridiculous, I want to say it's him, Steve, Gareth, let themselves get to the point of their egos being so big that they set across from her at the at the US Open, like costing her points towards top six by coaching Cheyenne against her. Like, that doesn't even like make any sense. In what country would you go against the person has your best chance of qualifying direct? All they do is preach about qualifying direct. You set across from her and coached against her. Try to block her head to head.

Juan 39:57

That's it does it doesn't make sense. Like, when if you make this conversation to somebody and say, Do you think the national team head coach should try to stop another US player from getting the top six in the country? You'd be like, no, right?

SPEAKER_06 40:08

But then they were the but then they were playing that little weirdo game about not coaching their guys at team trials. But you won't coach your guys that you train every single day at team trials, which for me is also really baffling at that point. I know they coached him this time around where Lambden did, but back then that was their thing. But you'll sit across from our our Olympian or a Pass Olympic medalist who's chasing top six points. You'll sit across from her and coach against her.

Juan 40:29

You know, it's funny because we talk about people not being ready, and and like you know how much I don't think highly of a lot of the coaches, but think about like even Steve Lambin. He's never even had a program, he's never even had a school. Like, he's learning with those kids, and he gets to go to the Pan Am Games, he gets to go to the World Championships, he gets to go to the Olympic Games. Like, that's crazy. Like, again, just going on what you said historically. If if if you guys never said that and you said, you know what, we're gonna give new people a try, and we're gonna bring them in there and and let them let them sink or swim at the Olympic level, world championship level, Pan Am Game level. Okay, but when you tell Terrence Jennings, you tell Terrence Jennings, hey, you you're not ready to sit at a Pan Am Games for all of you know, there's 12 people in the draw. There's 12 people in the draw. Like, how hard can it be? You know, you fought junior national teams, senior national teams, you've competed, you've won a Pan Am Games medal yourself.

SPEAKER_06 41:31

Like it's I'm at WCAP a full-time training program. I literally do this for a living at that point. Every single day, Monday through Saturday. I'm a professional coach.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Let's bring up the fact when you had WCAP at full strength, you were beating them at the Grand Prix and all. You had actually guys. And then all of a sudden, like, well, we need Rusty over here with us. And why Wilson let that happen? I have no idea. But it happened.

SPEAKER_06 41:59

That's because the organization, you know, bit, you know, boss be boss and having conversations and him selling them the lies that Rusty can't be the Olympia, the next Olympian, and and this person's gonna do this and this person's gonna do that. Could Rusty have been for sure? He we had beaten Healy a couple of times by that point. But was he ready for for what they wanted to do with him and just take him out and put him in two? No way.

Team Trials Versus Rankings Debate

Juan 42:22

TJ, you know when Rusty could be in? In 2028. He could be a ready. Biggest, he could be a monster. More than ready. Probably 2024. Maybe 2024. You're probably right. You're probably right, but 2028, for sure. For sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_06 42:38

But they they they shot that program in the foot early, and I know I know we're gonna talk about that a little bit. I know it's you know, um, All Army is a is a big part of that program. I remember when I was first out there, the All Army actually, I think for the first year, came out to Fort Carson for training, and we got to work out with those guys and be around the other members of the US military who came to train with us for the the month before nationals. And even even that program for me was it was strange for me when that program went away. Just even just solely that part. That just means I know I know that it was blamed on funding and and all those things like that, but I know once it got to the WCAP side of it that the the USAT made sure that this program wasn't gonna excel. It didn't not that they did ever made sense.

Juan 43:23

Well, they they tried to there was rumors May was offering people the WCAP coaching position. Not rumors, because it was a rumor, that's not a rumor. It's not a rumor. Yeah, it was it it was said, you know, they I mean, look at Mr. Wilson, you know, took the hook line in sinker about um Kaffani, you know, getting to the Olympics, you know, getting to Olympic qualification part of it. I mean, it's just crazy. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 43:49

I I figured that out back in the day when they did that Pandam game selection process and they said only the number one and the the the highest two ranked people, number one and number two, in the divisions could be picked. And then we go online, and at that point, they sent they they posted the thing online and they said Damian Bieler's name. And I think he was like number three or something in the division. We had to call May up and ask her, like, you can't choose him. Like, he's not in your selection, has to be number one or number two. And it was David, and then this other uh kid, I think it was his name was like Gianni or something like that. Uh, he was a 54-58 kid. Long story short, she tells us, she goes, Well, you know, if David doesn't qualify for the Pan Am Games, then we're not sending him to the Olympic Games. She threatened us at WCAP to make sure after we're telling her you're going outside of your selection procedures and chose the wrong person. And they had to retract that statement and take Damien's name off and put David Kim's name on. And he was number one in both 54 and 58 at that time. How crazy is that? And he was one of the only unfunded 54 and 58s between the two places. And then he qualified and won a medal. And then he qualified and won a medal. Yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

But he wasn't one of theirs. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_06 44:58

Yeah, that's all they said to me when he was, when I, even in those interviews or when I was talking to Steve, like, yeah, we got two more 54-58s. They're gonna be right on David's heels in a year. I'm like, you got the best 54-58 in your country, and you're sitting there having a conversation with telling me who's gonna be next, what you guys are gonna produce to basically get rid of David. And that was a normal conversation to him. But he's not a sport guy. Like, he's not a sports guy. I'm not gonna, I don't need to say much more than that. He's just not a sports guy. He has no idea what he's talking about.

Juan 45:25

Let's dive into WCAP. What do you I mean? I mean, you obviously historically you guys have been around for a long time, and you know, it's uh I listen, you guys know I work for another country, but I mean, it didn't take a rocket science, you know, scientist to look, like you said, you know, Ron, a couple years back, TJ had that thing going from the beginning. I I I will guarantee you these young kids would have lined up. They were lining up to go out there.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

There was no doubt. Uh, I remember when all you know transpired, came back in the phone. We were at uh I was at a reunion, and Boston Cam brought up the conversation about how the program suffered real bad during the last administration because of funding and all. And then WCaps were being brought back. Of course, I talked to David, you know. Of course, me and you had a conversation about that because we talked about Terrence. And I, you know, they were asking my opinion. I called you, and I said, hey, I think it'd be great for Terrence to come in because you know, once he could stop competing, he could become the coach, and soon, you know. Um because that program was very special to me, you know, because I came from that program. And uh, you know, I just didn't get it, you know, because like we had the people in place, you know. Now, of course, David, you know, David's a good guy. He just he's not very confrontational, you know. Uh and TJ was we fought a lot.

SPEAKER_06 46:51

I won't say that. We fought a lot. He fought tooth and nail with me for a long time in WCAP. Everyone doesn't understand like when it came to funding and getting athletes in, it became very apparent that we were having a lot of issues bringing athletes into for a year. That's not true either. Really? I think I and I'm not no, we fought. When I tell you we fought.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

I think you you were boy boast, but but David wasn't very confrontational. Because I remember because we talked, you know, me and him talked on the phone, and I would be more actually, you know that TJ. I wouldn't have to do that.

SPEAKER_06 47:23

Yeah, no, I know, I know. You know, you know, I know. He was he was a little bit more uh, I guess, military savvy than I was, and that's probably why I you know it came off the way it did. But he was a little bit more military savvy. But he we definitely fought. We we had conversations with with them. I, you know, we had conversations with with our organization. It was just no way they were gonna let us build anything where they'd have internal conflict because kids were lining up.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Yeah, and they kept changing the protocol because that was my biggest thing, and that was the biggest thing that drove the nail between me and May was the the procedure that came up to make the team was really not beneficial to the military athlete at all. Even a collegiate athlete, you know, and their answer to the collegiate athlete was or even the military, well, if you can't pay to afford to go, then don't do it. It's like, wait a minute. Aren't we supposed to be selecting the best athlete? Are you basing it on who's got the funding now?

Juan 48:18

I mean, this like like TJ said, uh, the selection procedures are are ethically slanted uh because they decide who they want to work with and then they decide that they want to fund them. So, you know, my athlete, your athlete, your athlete, I mean, you're gonna have to fork out, you know, all your money to go get your 20 points, your 40 points, your, you know, all your opens, where meanwhile they said, you know what, we like this person. And, you know what, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna fund them. We think we see potential in them. That's fine, uh, especially if it's a national team person. But if it's not the national team person and they're getting all that that stuff, and there's quite a few people out there, you know, actually, this this time around, they got more people on the national team. But I think they shot themselves in the butt because only for the Pan Ams. So that's not the national team, right? It's the Pan American team. And then after that, supposedly, it's supposed to be all done. Theoretically, those people shouldn't get any more funding, you know? Immediately after well, for example, like uh, like all the people that made the national the Pan American team, right?

Preparing Athletes: Camps, Travel, And Testing

SPEAKER_06 49:23

The ones that weren't on the in I think it's you're talking about the ones that qualify the the qualified through whatever the the ones that qualified uh through the ranking procedure they put in? No, they're a national team.

Juan 49:36

Okay, they're national team. But this year, if you won the team Charles, you were only designated as the the Pan American Championship team. Because for example, Michael and Victor Rodriguez. So you're saying because they took their wild, or because they're they they qualified directly to the national team, but they gave up their spots. They they're gonna use their wild cards. So technically, they're not on the national team. Technically, they're not who's on the national team? The people who won the team trials. So they're not gonna they're not gonna slight, you know, Michael Rodriguez or Victor Rodriguez.

SPEAKER_06 50:08

Yeah, they they've destroyed our team trials process, though. Our team trials process as soon as you stop, as soon as you stop taking the big dog out of the room, and I always use as an example when Steven Lopez was Steven Lopez and winning everything, that 80 division was packed. Packed. People were in the division and competing against him. And now we're looking at where we're removing people. I know it got a little at some point later on, they start skipping Pentiam championships, and I can understand that. But when you're you're making rules that are going, okay, well, if this guy gets into the top 20, he doesn't got to go fight the team trials against maybe some kid, like you just said, can't afford the funding, maybe some military person that can't get off work, that can't, that can't take leave to go to all these different things. But they're good, but they can fight, but they're in a system, and they're not making any kind of effort to open the doors for anyone other than their guys. But that's that goes back to the whole shutting the W count program down and trying to make it strangle it and put them all in one room.

Juan 51:00

TJ, you know, I mean, I don't gotta tell you guys, uh, you know, my Michael Rodriguez, you know, he's I love that kid. He's one of my favorite kids. He's TJ, you know how hard he works, you know how serious he is. He's got he's got the it factor, he has something special in him. But let's be honest, last year, for what he he's got, he's the highest paid person because of his ranking at the world championships. He's what last year he won the president's, I'm sorry, he won the um the Canada Open, right? Yeah, he got silver at the President's Cup, and he got a bronze medal at the World Championships. That's it, those first two are nothing special. The world championship is special, right? You get a bronze medal, that's that's special. But think about that. Like, as good as he is, and he probably would beat everybody in the United States, but he's 19 years old. No, he's 21 now. He's 21 years old. Like, he he still could be tested, he still could be, you know, keep some of the 19 years old. He should be fighting those guys. He should be fighting.

SPEAKER_06 52:04

No, but for sure, but but when we're talking about development, we can Yeah, I hate using the word pipeline and pathways. Those two words I just want to throw in the trash because they literally mean nothing in this country at all. Zero percent. But you got you got a kid like him that, you know, I was there. He goes, he beats the he beats the national team member at Calfani, who has been on the world team, who has been in the Pan Am Championship, who has medal at the Panam Championship, who has who has gotten Grand Prix medals. There should have been a run back. There's no reason you would separate those two right now for a year that's irrelevant. We're building it to the 2020 Olympic Games where we're gonna have spots. Which one is better? Let's just let him fight. Why are they not fighting again?

Juan 52:39

Why would you why would you pull him out? And and if T if if if if Michael beats him again, Michael's getting sharper. Or maybe, maybe, maybe Kafani comes back and beats him, and Michael's not as as solid as they think. And it's the same thing with the Victor. That's like Victor's a 13. Victor's 18 years old. He should still be fighting domestically to prove that he could keep beating those guys. And if he's better, he wipes them up. He's still better for it.

SPEAKER_06 53:06

And if he didn't, it was something said about that though. It was something said about having to prove it in your own country. It was something said about going and having to still do it again. Go to the world championships, fight these big matches, do all this stuff. You gotta come back and prove it again.

Juan 53:18

Olympic athlete, I had to go fight the next year. Pan-up games, gold medals, I had to go fight the next year. You know what I'm saying? 92 team trials, I had to fight.

SPEAKER_06 53:24

I mean, why why does that why would why is that different? I watch Korea. I watch Korea, one of the best countries in the in the whole system, send their guys back to the team trials. And some of them get smacked up and the new kids come out. How can what what could what could be so different about our system that they think that's not the way to do it?

Juan 53:45

Look at in Brazil, Nichino, he lost that one in in 2019. I remember. Right? I remember. I remember 17. It was before the Olympic. Maybe it cost him the Olympic uh uh ranking, but he lost. He lost domestically.

SPEAKER_06 54:00

I remember what are you gonna do? But you know, that strengthens your domestic. You you're telling people in your country that you still have a shot. Yeah, you still can go win and be a part of the team. That's right. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Well, I've said it many times, I've said it over and over. How many times have I said that, you know, something's wrong with the qualifying process because, you know, they have all these procedures, you gotta go through all these grand price or whatever to, you know, get the points to be on the team. But then when we go to the big games, they do poorly. And then you look back, you know, it was a simple procedure. You know, the four places at Nationals, two wild cards, they fight it out, the best went, and we had good standings because our men's team, and correct me if I'm wrong, was always ranked in the top five. Women's team was always ranked in the top two, right? Junior team, all you had to do was make the, you know, win juniors and you're on the national team. And our juniors dominated junior world competitions. Today they got team trials and qualifications and all, and they they get happy if they get one medal at junior world games. So there's something wrong with the process, obviously. And it's it's not working, man.

SPEAKER_06 55:15

Do we need a cadet team trials? Like, because it was up to me or junior team trials. I would let juniors fight at junior nationals and it'd be the end of it like it used to be. You give them more time to train, you give them. I I don't I don't really I'm not crazy about the team trial system for them.

Juan 55:28

Well, if you did do a team trials, if you do do a team trials, you certainly do don't do a single elimination with five people, six people.

SPEAKER_06 55:34

Because then it's not a take them trials.

Reset To 2028 And Division Depth

Juan 55:36

Do a round a round robin. Right. Who see the best kid is. But yeah, I'm not I'm not mad at like look, go and go and fight it out, and whoever the best man wins, the best girl wins, woman wins, and and on that level. But I mean, I listen for me, somehow, some way we got to get back to when our teams make our made, these teams have to have meaningful training camps. I don't care if it's in-country, but I think it should be out of the country. I think you should take them to Korea, you should take them to Mexico, you should bring them to Turkey. There's plenty of countries where you know these other kids are amazing. Put our kids in there where they where they they get a little international experience. They're not so worried next time they go to the world championships, they'll be better for it. They'll be better for it. I don't believe in just doing it right in the United States all the time. You know what I'm saying? Because that's too comfortable for them. It's too normal for them, it's too easy for them. Let them go sleep, let them go eat some weird food. That's how you build the character of a champion. I mean, young, you said it earlier. There's athletes that are have a championship mindset, and then there's athletes that have the warrior mindset. And we need both in this in this sport. But you definitely have to have you have to have a warrior mindset. You have to be able to push through different different barriers than a hockey player does or a baseball player or a basketball player. In a combat sport, you have to have something a little special.

SPEAKER_06 57:11

And you gotta be uncomfortable at home. You cannot be at home untested. You cannot be at home feeling safe, especially two years out from the Olympic Games, being in your country. This should be non at home, you should be tested. What you doing outside is different, but you should be tested at home.

Juan 57:26

Our top guy is going all over the world, you know, right now, you know, kind of living his best life, you know, at the Olympics, doing all kinds of stuff. I mean, good for him, but I don't know. We had a team trial that he'd have to attend, you know.

herb 57:39

Who's that? Who's that?

Juan 57:43

Well, CJ.

herb 57:46

He doesn't win. He wins sporadically, so he should be going to team trials. He's not a proven quantity, he's he's a random quality.

SPEAKER_06 57:55

I I'll say now, and I'll I'm just being as honest as possible. Like that division for me is underwhelming. There should be more talent in 80, especially with his level, even the level of success that he's had, it should be a pretty heavy division. We should have three or four welterweights because the writings on the wall, they're most likely gonna sit under 80, right? There should be a big push for under 80. I mean, I I don't know. I don't know. I this this whole generation of like, you know, we got one person per division that everyone's going, this guy's gotta win, it's just crazy to me.

Juan 58:28

You could have a micro, mic, uh, uh, what do you call the what do you call those things? The a crystal ball. Crystal ball. Everything, all the points reset in 20 in in June. We're zero. Think about all those people that just got on the national team are back to zero. Like, who do you think steps up and starts moving up the ladder? Three Grand Prix, Grand Prix final, President's Cup. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 58:55

Like, listen, I've sat by for eight, seven years. They're gonna have to show me my crystal ball has been broken. I've I think I've looked at this ball a couple times, and that shit don't ever come to fruition for me at all. I mean, I think it's gonna be tough in the world. I think it's going to be a hell of a reset and a hell of a race to the end. I think we are very lucky in the United States of America that it falls in our country because if it wasn't, I think we'd be in a little bit of trouble.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

I agree.

Juan 59:24

We would be in a lot of trouble because those people would have to go qualify, and I think they could, but it won't be easy. Like when you start to like break it down, it wouldn't be easy at all. So, yeah, I think you're right, TJ. But it's gonna be tough for some of these guys like uh to get big medals, you know, because listen on the men's side, 58, 68, 80, and plus is gonna be theoretically, it should be tough. It should be tough. I'm not talking about little opens in this in this side of the world. I'm talking about Grand Prix, international medals. It's gonna be tough. And on the women's side, I mean, we got 57 and 67. Really, they're kind of the front runners, but they got their work cut out for them too. You know what I'm saying? It ain't no duck, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:10

57's we know, we know 57 is tough, and we know 67's tough. Like, and you when you look at the guy's side for 68, 50, 68, 58, 80. I don't care which one you look at, everything plus 80 maybe gets a little like a little fizzly, but the rest of them are deep. And we're talking, I think what's gonna happen, and we talked about it before. When we used to go to the grand prize when they first came out, it was one through 32. All people were accounted for, top uh 32. There was no fall off where you got random people in the bottom. I think everybody's gonna show up. I would assume. Yeah, two years out, I would assume it's gonna be pack divisions, real people in real spots, all the way through every grand prix.

Juan 1:00:53

Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're I think it's I think it has to be like that because everyone's gonna be looking for the the direct ticket, the direct qualification, top five. So that's gonna be tough. Yeah. What do you think on a leadership uh Ron? What do you what what needs to change for either one of them? You can pick one, pick one, pick one of the organizations.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Well, after what came out was been exposed, I think, you know, definitely the the two executive directors of both organizations we can. I mean, come on. They plan a coup, you know. I think it's uh you have a lawsuit, in my opinion. You know?

Juan 1:01:33

How does somebody listen to that and think that it's okay? Like, think about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:38

It's not you you they they they they had they just close their eyes and turn their back because it doesn't affect them or they think it doesn't affect them, or they're in the organization's good graces right now. Like, I've listened to it obviously plenty of times because it and and I'm going that there's no way.

Juan 1:01:54

There's there's just no way the board listen to that and say, that's okay, Steve. Don't worry about that. That's okay, Alex. No worries.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

Well, not only that, I mean verbally say on the phone, you know, on the phone that, well, I got a family, I gotta look out for, I gotta get my hundred grand for my tournament and all. So I only care about my family, but then when I said, hey, what about Terrence? What about Juan? They got families too. So you're just being selfish, obviously. I mean, you know? It's it's basically they gave you the guy, they gave you the finger, basically.

Why People Stay Quiet And “Unity” Talk

SPEAKER_06 1:02:33

For sure. Yes, sir. I I just I just I just don't I I just hope people don't like pretend like this isn't happening, pretend like they didn't hear what you heard. I don't care what you think about me. I really, I really, really don't. I I I know the people who support me, I know the people who understand where I've come from, what I've what I've been through, and what I have to continually deal with for them. But if you listen to that tape and you can sit here and go, wow, that's so okay. Wow, this is this is how our organization should be. You got issues. You you you're you're worse off than you think.

Juan 1:03:02

But why are more people in a up in an uproar? Like why why are people just kinda I think they just kind of hope that it just goes away. That's their MO. They just hope that, oh, there's some noise, there's some there's some bells ringing, and then it'll all go away. How can those people sit there in a good conscience? And I'm talking the people in the I'll I'll I'll speak on USAT right now. People in the holding area, people that, you know, are Minister of Defences or whatever they are, Minister of Athletes' Affairs. Like, like, how can you sit there and say that that's okay? How can you sit there and say, I can kind of see what they're doing?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:39

Because it's TJ and because we're peak, and because I know you, and because that's why it's okay, because of who it's being done to. That's why it's okay. It's like that's like asking, why aren't these junior team coaches that just got selected, everyone's up in praise and everything? Why are you guys not fighting for funding for the kids? How why aren't you in Steve's office asking them where the funding is? You know it's not okay. They're gonna go pay for you, you're they're gonna go pay for their own flights, they're gonna go pay for their own stuff. Like, why aren't you guys fighting? You guys are supposed to be the best and brightest and the ones that have the most connection and can have these conversations. Nobody's fighting for funding. Yeah, you guys should be upset. You should be upset. Nobody's upset.

Juan 1:04:16

I I young, I'll I'll I'll ask you this too, because I know you've been quiet listening, you know, and stuff like that. And uh, TJ YouTube, please chime in. I heard this from one of my friends, and he's like, we just need to all get along and and work towards a 2028. And I and I said, and I asked him, I said, what does that mean? Like, what does that even mean? What does that like think about that statement for a second? I it's such a cliche. We gotta, yeah, let's all work together. What what the hell does that mean? Who's not working together?

herb 1:04:50

Historically, you know, it's what I call the uh pedophile excuse. You can't, if you're in a family where one of the parents is abusing the children, the other parent doesn't want to speak about it because they don't want to break up the family. And so the idea is that you work, despite the badness of the situation, you work towards some common good. And the the USAT has been historically um used that mentality, and so has the AAU. So the idea is they tell their people hey, we need to get along for this greater good. And in this case, the greater good could be the survival of the organization. In the past, it used to be keeping the Koreans out that were corrupt, and now it's the idea that the Olympics are coming, and you don't want to cast any dispersions against the organization, because if you do, it'll adversely affect the sport. The other big one was we need to stay in the Olympics so we can't have any internal trouble, and that was a very Korean thing. And so, when you do that, what you do is you sell your future for the short-term goal of staying on the Olympic program or peace for you know for for the to the detriment of everybody else that's involved in the sport so this has never been this has always been the problem with the USAT and it's always been the mentality and it's and it's why the WT continues it and it's a very it's a very detrimental thing to athletes in general it's a very detrimental thing to the organization in general but that's why it continues to happen because people put up with it because they're like yeah you guys are right we need to keep peace because peace is better than destruction of the organization well unfortunately sometimes the only thing you have left is destruction of the organization because the truth be told there's never a better day you know and this is going on in the Kookie Want too right now where they're like oh yeah we know we don't have any non-Koreans on the board be patient be patient there will be we have them in every country and there are boots on the ground and they tell us what's going on. So this has been a mentality it's been a um it's a political tool it's been used time and time again in various things it's been used with the Romans it's been used you know with any occupier of any country so why why would this surprise us now? No it's always been like this this has always been wait your time will come wait don't cause any trouble because we need to be unified for this next thing that's coming up which is the Olympic Games you don't know you don't need to be unified you need to do what's right for the athletes for the coaches for the organization and if that means that you have to unfortunately um break some eggs to make an omelet well that's life you know but that's you know I can't tell you the amount of times that we've heard this and you guys have heard it you've been around long enough you know it's it's going on in you know it's a very it's a it's a very um it's a very it's a way to keep abuse quiet whether it's abuse of an athlete be abuse of an organization whatever it is that's how you keep them quiet you tell them hey don't do this because you'll destroy the family don't do this you'll destroy the sport don't do this because you'll destroy all the good work and the future of an athlete who may get to go to an Olympic game well yeah a select athlete or a select group the USAT to be honest you know and I don't I hesitate to use this analogy but the USAT is no different than the Epstein files. I mean this is they've historically done this and unfortunately for them one of the Epstein files got released you you saw it with the TJ and the AAU thing this is them colluding to exclude an athlete and then telling that athlete during that phone call hey in the better interests of the future don't say anything don't do anything you want a spot shut up be sit down and be quiet.

Juan 1:09:04

You know how many times can you shut down shut up sit down and be quiet before you say enough is enough I was like saying yeah to this person that said we all got to get along or we gotta you know move forward I'm like what does that mean like how does that it's funny young kids you kept on saying what's best for the athletes and that's why I was like how does this how does saying kumbaya like with each other make it better for the athletes I mean not I'm just being I mean is that going to help them train better? Are you is that gonna give them more money?

Competence, Roles, And Accountability

SPEAKER_06 1:09:32

Maybe is it gonna is that gonna teach them how to kick faster like like I get it you know like I I keep saying we should roll the boots the same way we should we're in the taekwondo family we should try to work together but just because people question just because people you know looking for answers just because why does that deemed bad you know I'm saying like why so if we don't follow the the Almighty leader if we're not in his boat then the other boat is wrong that's not that that shouldn't be the case that shouldn't be the case um I know everybody because it's 2028 it's in LA you know there's a lot of people that want they want to see they want to be in the picture and that's okay that's okay there's room for everybody there's room for everybody but that doesn't mean you have to disclude your you know exclude not to disclude I can't that's not a word exclude people I I don't know that's it's uh sad state sad state if you ask me frustrating state frustrating it's been historical there's no word like even I guess my issue is knowing where we are right now knowing how bad this is knowing all the stuff that's been released knowing all the stuff that's been said knowing what they're doing for you to say we all just need to get along is crazy yeah it is no it's crazy I mean I said it before and I'll say it again somebody asked me T did TJ reach out to I know people told you TJ to reach out to Steve and talk to him I'm like why would TJ do that after hearing what he just heard after he's been at coffee and been told he's the enemy after being at the Olympics and told that he couldn't be in the same holding area after being told he wasn't experienced enough to go to the Pan Am games after being asked to let his athletes go train in the gym but don't come with them we don't want you there to not being in the holding area at the world championships after all that stuff just saying you know what that was a weird conversation that I just had it on the phone let me call Mr McNally and and and and deal with that that like why would a a normal person think that that that would be the solution after you just been pushed slapped and and and looked over that all of a sudden you're supposed to be the bigger person and just try to make this right that's that's that's crazy that that would be the they should be if you agree to our terms no if you agree to our terms and if you agree to them then call Steve it's waiting why would he be calling Steve to begin with it's like obviously Steve pulled a string something sound not Clinton not Mirza not him but call Steve call the guy that's not in charge of AU and talk to him. Exactly that guy call him that's brilliant yeah not Steve not Mirza that's cruise that's true why would I call him why I and I got I mean when I tell you I've heard that like 10 times from multiple people oh give Steve a call give Steve a call it's just people not knowing where how how all how long this has all been going on.

Juan 1:12:40

That's that that you know sat down and talk to Steve I'm like for what what do I have to talk about I can give him an education I could give him a big education I could solve all of his problems I could solve all of his problems probably in in an hour probably 30 minutes.

herb 1:12:57

It require getting rid of a bunch of people I mean sometimes people I don't know man they they they think too highly of themselves you know they they they think because they've been there for a while that they they know what's going on and you know I know that running an organization is not easy you know I'm not asking for that at all people also hey you should nah it's not me but it's funny you say running an organization but look at this I think it's been pointed out before McNally's never owned a business right no McNally let's be clear journalist never owned a business right who I mean none of these guys have owned a business Steve none of them well not not successful yeah Jay Jay Warwick ran a business yeah yeah he was yes he did he he ran some restaurants but let's let's look at that you know no no nothing against him but you know Jay stepped away from the sport wasn't even involved in coaching or anything for what what 20 years something like that the the page the the page on Jay has been written and told many times you know yeah but I mean there the whole thing bringing him back you know in my opinion was no no they didn't they didn't bring when he came back they didn't they thought people were gonna come back to the UFA they didn't bring Jay Jay didn't Jay didn't get brought back Jay brought himself back jay Jay was bored at home he didn't want to be home anymore his kids were grown when maybe he brought himself back when May was the you know the the high performance director you know she brought him in to kind of like help her a little bit and also to to kind of bridge some gaps because they knew like you said Ron they had been gone for first of all may was never she was an athlete and that was it she was never involved like in in the high high performance sports you can you can like or you can like or hate May Peho but the one thing you you need to say about her is she has zero had continues to have zero qualifications to be in that position that she was in she had she don't even know how to talk to people she's not even talking she didn't have the education she was barely successful as an athlete and she didn't have the education to be in that position I was shocked when I found out she was in that position. Now that's not to say anything I like May you can like May but if you're gonna be honest about May then you can't be honest about May without saying she wasn't qualified for that position.

Juan 1:15:26

That's that's just real city I got a question who who who is our high performance director right now do we have a high performance director I think it's Paul no he's the coaching leader director of coaching I'm saying you can call him what you want but I think I think he I think it's Steve Lambden if it is Steve Lambden that's a conflict of interest that you're a national team coach and high performance director? That's I was about to say how can you be the national team coach and a high performance director again this is some non-transparent stuff I mean I don't know who is but he certainly seems like he's acting like it because he's the one going to the AAC presenting everything that's happening he's the one going to the USOC OPC um and and and you know kind of uh reporting to them that's what I've heard again I'm this is you know I I I always say when I can't speak 100% you know I I'll I'll preface with saying that but from my understanding he's acting as the high performance director.

Merit-Based Coaching And Lost Opportunities

herb 1:16:30

I I like and I like Steve so I hate to you know I like I like Steve Lambdon. But what do you like about Steve Lambdon? And I'm he's the one that got to the Olympic trials without you know by discalling the thing he's the one that he was always polite I I've always found him to be polite. So I I mean in the sense of like I hate to throw shade on him because I I I think he's always been he's al listen he's been putting I don't know anything about him so I can't speak I can't speak about my experience with him because I can say that across the board the organization is underwhelming as far as education and ability um you know and I the only reason I like I said I I don't speak poorly about Steve because you know he was he's always been a gentleman the times that I've known him and whatever else like that. But and I you know you guys can certainly speak to the interactions with the more than I can is anybody that they currently have on staff qualified to do the job they're doing I can say with some assurity Gareth Brown is unqualified to be a coach and has demonstrated time and time again that he's unqualified to be a coach. Paul Green is ethically um bankrupt in the sense that he keeps picking the pocket of USA taekwondo and doesn't do his job. Sherman Spinks Smith Nelson whatever he calls himself these days is conflicted because he's quasi um religious and I say that quasi because he he's definitely mixes his metaphors he um is not qualified to do whatever he's doing I at least I think Jason Pooz has exited the building um nice guy but is he well anyway at least he's not talking that let me be clear and let me be clear so I so I'm I'm just my my issue is he's in that room with them too right Steve Steve see Steve Lambden Steve Lambden's in the room with him too he's the guy that can't stand up for other athletes and people in the room and he tries to go to other people and get them to tell on them.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:40

Try to get them to do his work for him. I know for a fact he's been around and done been around those athletes for all this time and all the stuff that's gone up uh went down he knows and I know for a fact he's told people to even reach out to me call this guy because he'll know what to do about it. He's in the room with these people call this guy talking about me because he knows I'm gonna say what I got to say and and and and keep it moving forward and then if there's something I feel is not right I'm gonna say it. But that's that's that's the guy. They're all complicit every single one of them are complicit.

herb 1:19:10

And I'm not saying I'm not saying that's not the case. All I'm saying is I don't have any experience with him fair enough. But so I you know and that's not to say uh I don't think or feel or whatever it is just to say hey at the end of the day I don't have any experience with the guy other than you know he's always been polite to me. So if I worked with him or saw him work but I can say that the staff in total not just in part is underqualified to do what they do. Yeah you're right you'd be better off having Jay Warwick who's a dinosaur for this kind of stuff being the director of high performance because at least he worked in the USOC and could check the boxes on what's required to be uh a high performance plan.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:56

Even but even Steve Lambden went from coaching nobody to coaching at the World Championships, to coaching at the Pan Am Games, to coaching at the Olympic Games, from coaching nobody to coaching at the Olympic Games.

Final Reflections And Closing

herb 1:20:05

I'm not saying coaching nobody I've already said that I don't think there's anybody in the room that's qualified to do the job they're doing. And I've I'll say this which I've said to you all I'm not qualified to coach an Olympic athlete today. I'm qualified to be a high performance director I'm qualified to be the CEO I'm qualified to be the COO I'm qualified to to be the strategic planner for USA taekwon I'm qualified for a bunch of things the last thing I'm qualified to do is sit in a chair. You should uh you should apply you know I would apply but I I as my wife has reminded me she asked me how many organizations have you been involved in at a high and so as you guys know I was on the executive committee of the international of the uh USOC the USAT uh Olympic Council Executive Committee Board of Directors International the list goes on and the ones that I have survived were um Olympic Council of Asia and Association of National Olympic Committees everything else on the way out everybody tries to kill me but I can say this I make every organization that I've been on better than I was before on the U.S. Olympic committee I removed three bad CEOs and got rid of a bunch of bad people on USA Taekwondo I removed an entire organization and got rid of CEOs that were malfeasant and coaches. I you know I was the person that led the way to get rid of a coach who years later we'd find out was uh also a problem and he exhibited that both in his coaching ethics and in his personal ethics. So I've never been afraid to do that. The question you guys asked though which is the bigger question is when you lead these sorts of charges everybody's like let's go let's go let's go so when you ask that question why aren't why aren't people in an uproar I've lived that my entire life when I was fixing USA taekwondo uh I turned around and I was alone in the room because everybody was afraid same thing with the USOC when we removed a couple of bad CEOs specifically Lloyd Ward and some others um and I'd turn around and I'd start out I'd be one of three people and by the way I do what I do I'd be one of 20 but not until I dragged him into the room kicking and screaming. Ethics and ethical behavior are in short supply they're in short supply in the country they're in short supply in USA taekwondo and they're in short supply of political organizations. What you have now is a CEO who runs an organization who is a is a PR guy. That's what his job was he that he writes press releases and that's what he still does. You have a COO who was complicit is a get along kind of guy and sucks up to anyone to get anywhere he can get to and that's why he's at the he's carrying in Korean they call Chogi boy he's he's he's uh chose bag boy along with the guy from Insung Kim or whatever his name is so they all carry the bag of the drunk guy in the front of the bus. And so they like being in the room they get the free dinners and I was laughing at the picture of WT because there's one guy in the room that had pretty much beat up every other athlete in that room including Jay and they all sit there and I'm just like this interesting room to be in but the guys that's getting beat up by everybody is they're beating up getting beat up by Cho. And in and in our organization everybody sits along while an ass clown runs the organization into the ground. And this is a guy that has no history in sport has no history in leadership has no CEO development history doesn't understand what sport performance is didn't go to memos which Bob Gambardello myself and a few of other guys went and coach Moreno also went to the Olympic uh efforts to make uh coaches better and development programs. Nobody in the room with the exception of Jay Warwick did that so we're the educated guys in the room aren't there the guys who know how to run programming develop program and implement program. Coach Moreno myself and one other person we created USA Taekwondo's blueprint for coaching athlete and referee development we created it they still use it today we did that after getting an educational background and then using that educational background to create content along with Bob Gambardello further on down the ride with a bunch of other guys that we brought into the fold that's how you create programming that's how you create systemic sustained competitive excellence. So peak performance under Juan Durano peak performance has sustained competitive excellence. Why? Because it uses a method that encourages competition develops athletes puts them in the right environment and as a result of that they succeed and that's been proven here in Mexico in Brazil and in Miami Florida. That's simply said when I was coaching and competing I had 33% of the men's national team come from my school for eight years. Not one year not two years eight years. Those athletes came through my program and I handed them off like most of us do to other people and they continued to have success and the list the list is long and and it goes on. I'm also smart enough to know when I needed to step away and I don't I bring coach Moreno in to coach my Olympic level athletes because that's who should be coaching them.

Juan 1:25:31

Just come in he leaves me alone I don't even I don't even I don't even I don't even watch I come in to pick him up for dinner I've had coach TJ in and I mean you're right you're no no you're you're right on all this stuff I mean it's it's I think it's things well I hadn't talked so I had to use some of the time you know nah I mean listen I I I don't know I mean this is I I what I like about this conversation is we could all we could keep bouncing back around and it's funny we're we're not just on one track we're kind of going around but just I think it shows in my opinion it displays the chaos it it just it displays the the man the the the lack of the lack of really if you have to if you have to go out there and put you know we all need to get in the same boat we all need to kind of work together then you've done something wrong. Like you know what I'm saying if you can't make that happen naturally you've done something wrong. And you know this with I don't care if it's a coaching selection I don't care if it's athlete development I don't care if it's athlete investment it just seems like it's always TJ you said it's always for a few people and that's what we're not supposed to be. The USA take on though AAU is supposed to be for everybody. There's not enough for everybody you're always gonna have to be a little bit short but it should be for more than what it is being used for right now. And I think that's the problem. When you have a when you have a personal club that's being funded by the organization and that's all they care about that's a problem. You said it Mr Barry if they don't want to if you're getting paid then damn it you should sit in those people's chairs. You shouldn't pawn them off to some first year world championship coach to coach 50% of the team that's not correct. That is not correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:15

You remember what I always said I mean we talked about this what three four five years ago I've always said coaches should be selected on merit not you know from who you know and all and unfortunately quite a few coaches we've seen never had schools never produced nobody and all and they got designated as a national coach and went went to world games and all and that shouldn't be the case you know I mean didn't Scott Fucci how many people did he put on team and he didn't get selected you know why? Look at the thing in Texas why not?

Juan 1:27:51

And all these coaches are going in other countries now you know or some of our best coaches you know St. John he's working with an athlete from Costa Rica and he's in a couple African countries And he's all in with them. He's all in with them. And do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:04

Good for him. Good for him because he deserves it. He deserves it. Well. He didn't get it at home.

Juan 1:28:10

Unfortunately. Well, maybe we should wrap this up. We've gone up quite a long time. Hour and a half.

herb 1:28:15

Hour and a half. You guys were chatty Kathy's. Well, this has been kept losing people. Ambassador Barry, it's been, Coach Barry, it's been an honor to get a chance to speak with you. I see all your posts where you um continue to remind people of the past and who we were, where we were, because USA Taekwondo has forgotten that they forgot who built the building that they stand in. So I appreciate you uh mentioning not only the Olympic champions and the Olympic medalists, but everybody that that including, because there would be no way, and this will be the final thing that you guys I'll say, and TJ and you guys are all right. At the end of the day, none of us would be here if we didn't have people under us that were pushing us to be better than we could be domestically. If somebody had protected us here in this country so we didn't have to fight, we would never have achieved what we have achieved. You do a disservice to the great athletes we have in this country if you don't force them to test their metal, M-E-D-D-L-E, and become better for what they can become. And so you remind us constantly of the many people who came up as USA medalists in the various areas and the champions that um names aren't celebrated because they weren't always necessarily going to the world championships, the Olympics, or whatever, but they were certainly national champions, and I applaud you for that. But with that said, you know, I I see um TJ is uh nodding off there. He's got to get back to his poster and do his Namaste to his uh to his Joker poster behind him. I haven't given him a hard enough time. Um but I want to thank you very much.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:54

I think I I think we should let Master Barry get the last 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:02

Well, thank you guys for having me. And uh thank you all for having me.

herb 1:30:09

All right, and uh let's just do what we do, man. Well, thank you for coming in and having the courage to spend time with us. Hopefully, you don't get your suspension letter from the AAU following the podcast. This has been the warehouse. This is the warehouse 15. And like we said before, if we've offended you, then we've been doing our job. Sorry, not sorry, baby. And we're out.