Inside The Pan American Taekwondo Union Awards And What The Results Missed

A regional award is supposed to be the easy part: look at the year, look at the results, pick the best. So why do some Pan American Taekwondo Union honors feel crystal clear while others feel like they were negotiated in the hallway? We jump back into Warehouse 15 Uncut to break down the PATU awards handed out around the US Open and to ask the question every coach and athlete ends up asking sooner or later: what does “best” actually mean when the numbers are sitting right there?

We start with the categories that feel closer to the mark. Refereeing is never perfect, but we explain what we look for in top kirugi officials: consistency, clean match management, and the kind of presence that keeps the focus on the fighters. That leads into shout-outs for John Shea and Dania Gonzalez, plus a quick take on “best kick” as the one award that can be pure fun without pretending it is scientific. We also give Peru real credit for federation growth, event quality, and the kind of organization that moves a program forward.

Then we get into the messy part: team and coach awards. We debate how a “best team” trophy can end in a tie, why World Championship medals and WT rankings should settle arguments, and where the logic seems to break when coaching honors do not match athlete outcomes. We also talk openly about PR, politics, and why a lack of transparency makes every future award harder to trust.

If you care about taekwondo rankings, fair recognition, and the health of the sport in the Pan Am region, hit play, share this with a teammate, and leave a review. What should matter most for awards: results, development, or influence?

Transcript

Merch Updates And Quick Return

herb 0:57

Warehouse 15 amended addended ad amended. We are back. It's the warehouse 15 uncut. We didn't have enough time. We were we had to get to sleep. I think TJ gets to bed before 12 o'clock or he turns into a pumpkin. But we are back. And I just want to say he has gotten the merch. What a beautiful shirt. Oh my god, that is unbelievable. Don't forget to get your I know, me too. Go to our website. We'll put the link up. Hopefully we put it up on the web. And go to our merch site. Don't forget to click through the pages because I got we got flip-flops. We got uh we got a cup like this, we got shirts, we got hoodies. Yep, and that's just you know, we're past those times where you couldn't wear a hoodie, so don't be afraid to wear your hoodie. Bring your hoodie up and get ready. But let's get to it because I know we got a limited amount of time today. I understand, to my best of my knowledge, I understand there were some awards given. Now, I I'm an old school kind of guy. I I like winning my awards, they're called gold medals and medals at the tournament. But I I'm not a big fan of the popularity ones, but I understand there were some unpopular, popular ones and some popular, popularist ones. So let's get to it. Who's starting us off today?

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Let you lead the way, Cosha, right now. You gotta finish chewing. He's chewing. Oh, he's also I want to talk about it.

herb 2:18

Taco Diablo, Taco Diablo. He's he's having some camerones, he's uh he's getting his fire, his fire up. And uh, TJ, you got what do you got? You got some chitlins, what do you got? Some greens, what do you got? Oh, he's got water. Oh, nice. Electrolytes. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Gotta stay healthy and hydrated in these streets. All right, what do we got, Chewy Boy? No, we're gonna start, we're gonna um go back through. They did some uh Pan Am Pan Am Region Awards, and I think we were trying to get to them at the end of last episode, but uh we kind of talked and thought we'd just go through and but who did who

What The Pan Am Awards Are

SPEAKER_05 2:53

did the awards?

herb 2:53

Who they who were giving?

SPEAKER_05 2:54

It's the Patus, the Patu, uh Pan American Taekwondo Union. Like it's for the re the all the Americans basically. This was at the U.S. Open they were giving them? I think they did a did they do a function or a dinner?

SPEAKER_03 3:05

So damn, you didn't get invited. I know. In the past, they've had a gala, and to be honest with you, they did it in Mexico one time, and it was like a real gala at a museum, black tie, like bow tie, the nines. It was beautiful. I mean, a great food, everything. This time, they did it like in the in the convention center hall, like where they gave out the medals. It was like really wasn't it was like and the winner, it really wasn't thought out. I mean, I don't know if that was because it was just in the USA or or whatever, but President Juan Muel usually does a really nice job with that. I mean, he makes it like a big thing, like the WT one. Remember when that when that was big, they used to do that, but this one wasn't so big. Um, but yeah, they did uh the the Continental Awards, you know, for basically for 2025. They're they're awarding them here. This is probably I'm not sure why they chose the U.S. Open, maybe just because it was a big open. I don't think everybody was there. You know, normally he invites a lot of the presidents from the differ federations, but anyway, nevertheless, it was at the U.S. Open. Awards were for 2025. Um, yeah, and they did everything from uh the best athlete for sparring, best athlete for Pumse, best referees for both uh disciplines for para, the coaches. Um they do some things like MAs, like who's um developing and who's you know improving and stuff like that. So yeah, we can we can talk about a few.

SPEAKER_05 4:34

So yeah, how how do you think they go about that? Is that that's just when you when they're talking about the popularity contest? I think as far as like excellence or MA of the year and all that that's stuff like that. Like, how do you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_03 4:45

I personally I I don't know, but I'm gonna take a stab at it and say that it's a little bit subjective, you know. Like, for example, I know hey, that's cool. I know that um Peru got a an excellence, uh MA excellence or something like that. But I I think they they they actually what are you doing?

herb 5:02

Oh my god. What I'm doing, you know what I'm doing. You know what a limp you know what Olympus is saying right now. Hold on a second. Take a look at this. That's all I'm saying. I'm just no, that's not a karate chop.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

No, all right. Uh TJ, like um Peru got a uh uh a recognition, and I think they deserve it. And they've held they've hosted the President's Cup, they've hoped they're hosting the next President's Cup. You've been to that event, it's top-notch. The facilities is great, the organization is great, the registration is great. I mean, they deserve you know that kind of award. But I think when you get to the competition part of it, like the athlete and the coach, I think it should be pretty pretty black and white, right? I mean, I I mean, I guess you could split hairs if somebody has the exact same you know record, you know, they both make gold medals or they both, you know, get but that that generally doesn't happen. But let's get into it, let's talk about it, because obviously there were some that were I'm gonna say I don't know, it's uh it's totally my opinion, well deserved, and there was some other ones that I I gotta kind of go I gotta question a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

So which one you

Referees Who Actually Deserve It

SPEAKER_05 6:15

wanna start with? Yeah, you um we can start you wanna start with the referees first?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Yeah, let's do that.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

You have you have the list, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Oh my gosh, come on now. You you sent it to me.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

I know, I know. I don't mess it up. I thought I thought you had it.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Hold on, hold on, hold on. So you gave me so many a big list amazing.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Alright, so I mean, obviously, I think we should only speak on the sparring referees because we don't know anything about Pumse, so I'm not gonna judge that.

herb 6:44

So the um a second, I am a ninth and grandmaster. And I'm just saying, I I'm also an educator, so you just be careful there now. Pumse is my uh third more favorite thing in taekwondo.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

So I like it. I just third more favorite. I like it. I'm just not gonna sit there and tell you I know how what a good referee is.

herb 7:07

I don't I don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Anyway, the best male uh referee for sparring was um John Shea. I don't know how to you know pronounce his name pop properly, but what I do know is that guy's been on my radar for a while and for good reason because he's he's good, he's sharp, he's clean, he he listened to the case.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

His consistency is there.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Yes. I just like the way his mannerisms are in the ring, too. And he just I I never see a drama, you know what I'm saying? I never see I never kind of go, oh, that was a weird call. Like it just seems good, and he's done some big matches too, like at the world level and grand prix level. So he's in there with some heavy hitters, and he just seems like like what do they say? The best referee is one you don't notice, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 7:52

Yeah, and so I think every if I think when I do see calls with him or he's involved in a call, it's almost those ones as a coach, you're kind of like, even the ones you don't agree with, you're always you're split down a middle 50-50. You're kind of like, I get it. And then you're kind of like, whatever, you know, it's not so much like far to the left where you just don't understand where the call is coming from or why the match was stopped, and little things like that. So I definitely think he's uh a good referee.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

And uh uh I would say I think he's on, I mean, again, I don't know how the the political workings of the referee selection goes, but I would say he should be on track for an Olympic referee.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

You know, I think so. I think he's from California, right? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

I'm sure well like you said, very professional, does well doing the matches, does well managing the matches. He's always been polite and you know easy to work with from a coaching standpoint. So congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Yeah, let me look at the so this is uh oh yeah. Uh best female Kirugi. See that? This is Pumpsay. Oh, female, yeah. Uh Dania Gonzalez. I don't know if you remember her. Do you remember her?

SPEAKER_05 8:57

I love it, but I've been in a bunch, yeah. I've been in a bunch of matches with her.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Yeah, again, I I I think she's been, in my opinion, again, I think she's uh she's been in some big matches and she's been in some like pressure ones where she's had to make a call, and I don't think she's afraid to make a call, which I think is good. And the biggest thing for me, you said it earlier, TJ, is the consistency for me, you know. When I kind of I know what I'm getting into as a coach, and you know, I can tell my athlete, you know, about it. So I think that was uh for me, those two were I can't say spot on, but I think they were I I got no no qualms about that, you know, for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

For sure. I agree. I agree, I agree.

Best Kick Plus Peru Recognition

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Um obviously there's I I didn't know we had this one, but I think it's been kind of popular on the WT side. We had a the best kick award. I mean, that's obviously subjective. I mean, I I don't know even what that means, you know.

herb 9:52

But did they actually do a kick? They did a round kick. I think they did a round kick that scored. So they basically I can tell you it's not a back hook kick. I haven't seen something that matters.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

It might be in the past, it was kind of cool, like in the WT level and at the Grand Prix, at the uh the one gal where I was in Mexico, they'll show like Her Perez, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Terrence Jennings, boom, Juan Moreno, beep, and then you know, and the winner is Her Perez! Juan Moreno.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Um I don't think they showed one. I don't know what the kick was, but I mean, he's known for a lot of wild and crazy kicks, and so CJ got it. But again, I don't know what kick it was, but CJ won the best kick.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

Yeah, but that one, you know what, that one's for me is always the fun category, right? That's what I was asking in the beginning about. There's some that like kind of you you want to sit back, you want to dive into double opinion about it.

herb 10:48

But to double hand.

SPEAKER_05 10:49

And then there's other ones. Then there's then there's other ones where like the kick wins always, you know, it's it's a toss-up, it's fun for me. I I like seeing it because it they usually do show three or four different big shots and you get to choose from. I know CJ's super athletic and does some some big move stuff. So I'm I'm sure whatever it was, it's probably up there with something that we view as cool cool these days, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 11:09

This one, like I talked about earlier, um, the best uh sports excellence was uh the Peru. Got that as a as a kind of uh uh MA. Like I said, I have no problem with that because if it wasn't for them, they really stepped up, you know, last year. They got a new president. I got a chance to work with him. Uh I did a camp actually there at the beginning of the year. Super, super um prof again, I'm I don't live in Peru, but professional. Everything was clean, everything was organized, everything was structured, everything was on time. I mean, they I just I feel like they're going in the right direction, even with their national team. Like, when's the last time you saw Peru going as a national team to like Belgium and Spain and all these opens in Europe? I mean, I give them a lot of credit that they're investing their money and and trying their best for their athletes. And you know, they have don't forget they're hosting the the Pan American Games in uh 2027 for the second time, like in in I think the last three. So it's big for them to prepare their federation, big for them to prepare their athletes. They do, they do, they do very well in Pumse already. And sparring, they have, you know, they had some pockets, but I think they're on the right track. So I'll give them a thumbs up for that one for me. I like their I like their training facilities.

herb 12:28

Who who won it? Was it Machu Pichuchu? Machu Pikachu? No?

The Best Team Tie Controversy

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I got a I got a problem with this next one.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

The best team. The best team. Me too. I have a big problem. Who was the best team?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Well, first of all, I don't think there's ever been a shared shared. It was a tie. It was a tie. In between?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

USA and Brazil.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

How is that possible? I don't know. I don't know. That's all my only question. Again, here comes the the hater. You guys like to hear make it make sense to me.

herb 13:12

We gotta we gotta I think we gotta call Machu Pikachu and ask him.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

Listen, I mean I guess. Don't you gotta I just stand on this, make a decision though, right? Like just make a decision. Let's just start there. I I don't think any award as far as best team in the in the Patu region or any region or the world should ever be shared. How can it be shared? There should be one winner and one winner only, no? Yes, there should be.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

And I'm not sure if it was home cooking because it was done in the United States or whatever you want to say. But listen, I there's three major teams. There's a senior, there's a world championship team, senior world championship teams, there's the Pumse team, and there's I'm talking all on the adult level, and the para. And even if you're trying to go, you know, best of three, uh Brazil para is ridiculously good. Like number like one of the best in the world. And then you go to the senior team, Brazil was number three in the world. Okay, I'm sure obviously USA does very well in Pumse, but historically it's always been the fighting ones. I I don't know if that was taken into consideration. But even if you did it, it's still two out of three. Like like you said, I guess at the end of the day, make a decision, you know, make a decision. But I obviously that's a little close, you know, near and dear to me because when you have four world championship finals, that's that's deep. That's deep. And then you had I I think we had three quarterfinals. That's you know, again, you don't you don't get a medal for trying, but it's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

It's embarrassing they split it. I don't care. I I'm gonna keep it's embarrassing that there was even a split. It makes no sense. Even just starting for the world championship results going down. I don't care if you had a pumse, board breaking, sword fighting, whatever else these guys want to put in there, there's no way, there's no way it's split, and there's no way you're leaning towards the the America, us. Like, there's no way, it's impossible. I I can't like looking at the stats, looking at the the scenery, looking at all the the victories, all like you say, world championship finals, multiple medals at the world championships, world champions. Like, in comparison to what you you want to add in the grand prize or the grand prix challenges, all that stuff. There was like it makes you can't get me there. And I usually ask you to like be my devil's advocate and tell me, play devil's advocate and tell me what I'm missing. But is there something I'm missing in this whole equation?

SPEAKER_03 15:38

If we're just being honest, I listen, I I I don't know. If there is, I'm I'm I'm right there with you. I'm I'm missing it too. It's just uh I I don't know. It like I said, it's it when it man, let's get down to it. If when it gets, if we're if that's what we're doing, it's just kind of like, all right, I mean, these these kind of become not worth a whole lot. You know, I'm saying I know they look good in your bookshelf or whatever, your trophy case, but it takes a little bit of shine off of it when you start to think about that, you know?

SPEAKER_05 16:07

Yeah, I've never been too crazy. I mean, honestly, I never dove into any of the awards and like, oh, this, this, this, you know, you see results, you you know, that that's good for that person, that's good for this team, that's good, that's good, that's good. But when like the the discrepancy, when the the the you go and choose two people or two teams and say they're equal, and you look at the results, and the results are not equal, then I just want to know how we got there. That's all.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

But that's what I said, you know, that's what I was saying. Like, I mean, I think some are very objective, and these other ones are like subjective, the best referee. I mean, that's a little subjective, right? Because they don't really get scored per se. Um, the best kick, it's subjective because, like you said, it's fun, it's fun. You know, let's put it there. But like when you start getting down to athlete and teams, I mean, the rankings speak for themselves. The rankings speak for themselves. So um, yeah.

Athletes And Coaches Not Adding Up

SPEAKER_03 16:57

And when I was a little weak, and when I look at like I'm let's go to like the para, because I do know a little bit about para. Um, and the best female para-coach was Maria Espinosa, the great icon, you know, maybe maybe one of the goats, you know, in the sport uh for females. She's been coaching para for a while. Um, and the para athlete, the female para athlete, um was from Mexico. So it kind of makes sense the coach and the athlete. And then for the male, it was Rodrigo Furla from Brazil, who again they they have a an incredible para program. And it was a Brazilian athlete who got the the male athlete. So I mean, I I'm in my sense, you know, kind of that that kind of lines up. If you have the best athlete, then you're probably gonna have the best coach. I mean, I can't say I know everything. I I do know about uh Brazil para, but I don't know about all the other ones. You know, I know Mexico puts a lot of time and investment, they've they've developed their program pretty well too. So um when I look at those, um and then the consistency starts to you know change for me a little bit because in Pumse, you have the athlete from the United States who's a world champion, and you know, you know, uh very, very good, and his father is his coach. And so you had the athlete of the year in Pumse male, and his coach was the male coach. Um, I don't know the female athlete. I mean, I'm looking at her name, Alejandro Higueros. I don't know if she's from Guatemala, but if it if it falls in line, it's the same thing, you know. So you have the paracoach, you know, the best athlete, best coach kind of go together on the male and female side. On the Pumsei, you at least have the male side. I know that for sure. I don't know 100% on the uh female side. We could probably look it up. But then when we get to the sparring, Kirugi, um there's some strange red flags. So I think the the best male athlete was without a doubt in Hike. He's the world number one, he's the world champion, he won a Grand Prix challenge. I mean, what can you say? I I mean, how could he actually he got the world, he's got the WT athlete of the year, so for sure he's gonna be the regional you know, person of the year. Um did he get overlooked? No, no, he got the fatsu, he got the fats, and he got the world, like he he went to the world one too, so that was pretty cool. Right, and then the female side was arguably she should have been the women's as well. I mean, she was undefeated last year until the last tournament, world ranked number one, won every grand prix, won the world championships.

SPEAKER_05 19:36

Like who was it for the WT?

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Maria, uh, I don't know. Actually, I I I don't even know, but it wasn't her. I think it was uh was it the Hungary girl from Hungary? The Spanish girl that fights for Hungary that won the Olympics and stuff and worlds.

SPEAKER_05 19:53

Maybe I'm not sure. I'll look it up later.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

But Maria, I mean, anyway, Maria was it, but I mean for the Pan Am region, it's all it's a slam dunk. It's a slam dunk. Again, she also is number one. So two Brazilians win it for the male and female on Girugui and fighting. And so the point for the for the coach, this is where it got really wacky for me because the Brazilian coach Diego, who I think is probably the best coach in the world right now, at least his club, you know, from a club-based situation, he got the best female coach. I have no idea why his female athlete didn't win a world championship, his male did, and he had another male get second. So he had two finalists.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

So he might have should have been the best female and male coach of the Pad region if we want to argue about it. If that's what if that's what the we're using those numbers, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yeah, yeah. But then I guess here's where it gets flippy. The United States coach, Steven Lambda, he was the male coach. So I'm like, how does he say what how does Diego get woman coach? He said what? Male coach. It's really if if it following the line, uh Maria Clara's coach, Jose Carlos, he should have won the best coach. And Diego, because I mean he came, he should have won the best coach. So it's a little strange for me to think that um they would give I just I just it's coming through okay again.

SPEAKER_05 21:27

Make it make sense. Make it make sense. Uh please help me out and get me to the point where uh we are saying that in the Pan Am region over the last year that Steven Lambden was better than every other male uh tattoo coach. Who'd he coach award?

SPEAKER_03 21:46

Who'd he coach? Well, he's he got John Healy to a bronze medal, but like I would say Gareth before him. I would say for sure. Gareth coached all the Grand Prix and did so well with uh with CJ. You know, and got CJ's uh I I Again, it's weird. I'm not sure why they did that even within the United States. I mean, I don't think he was the best coach in the United States. I think Gareth was. Right? Gareth coached Gareth coached Michael, Michael Rodriguez to a bronze medal. And he coached him to, you know, to CJ to a couple Grand Prix Challenger medals.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

You can't make it make sense. Is it like if it's if it's within the United States, it's definitely not Landon. It's Gareth. It's gotta be 100%. 100%.

herb 22:31

Wait, wait, wait till don't worry, there'll be the usual sycophant nepotism when uh Daywant Ku, Mu, whatever his name is, is coaching. He'll automatically become the best coach. So but that's why these awards don't mean anything.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

No way, but they can't mean anything. Yeah, but when it comes, when we do that, when we're doing that, when we're when we're tying team votes and going USA and Brazil is the same, or less USA and whoever, or Brazil and whoever is the same, and you look at and everybody knows the results, it's hard for me. When you look at across all the good coaches in the Pan Am region who have had good results within their teams, within their structures, with their athletes, you're going, he's the guy we give the best male coach to in the entire tattoo.

herb 23:20

I'm gonna have to rub my beats some more, man. I'm gonna go to the game.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

And so, like, yeah, it's just I mean, Brazil like dominated, dominated the president's cup last year, and that was a big event. Dominated that on the Penham region. Goes to the World Championship, and again, for this region dominated when nobody was even close, you know, and then so I yeah, I think it's that that reward is a little, not a little, it that's that's all you gotta give you gotta go, and this again, this is just straight up facts and straight up from results.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

You gotta give Brazil best male, best female, and best overall team. You're looking at the results. What was it? Gold at the World Championship, silver at the World Championships for women, correct? Silver and gold for for the male, correct?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Hold on a second. Why is my help again? You guys heard that?

SPEAKER_03 24:24

No, my my phone was ringing and so it was like coming in my my earphones. No, yeah, it's listen. I think this was a slam. But is that not true? Yeah, yeah. We had a golden uh on the whip a golden silver, golden silver on both.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

I'm saying four four world medals, four finals at the world championships, and we're splitting team awards in the Patu region. It was lopsided. It was lopsided. I'm gonna have to do some cleansing. And going back to what you just said for the the president's cup, it was a pretty big performance by the the Brazilian team.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

I gotta do some eight gold medals on the men's side. Say that again. Six out of eight gold medals on the men's side. Six out of eight gold medals. I think they had three on the women's side.

herb 25:04

Um do some brutal bruto haria over here and cleanse myself.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

So again, how do you how does that award for the best coach in our entire region go to Steven Landon? Stephen Who?

herb 25:17

Monkey said what? Stephen Who?

PR Politics And “Mafia” Talk

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah.

herb 25:20

So, you know, it it's the usual, guess remember, it's the PR train. So I saw a photo somebody sent me of the cabal, the new cabal in the Pan American region, which was the guy from uh what is it, Moss TKD, you know, more taekwondo and and uh and uh and Steve McCooley and and the usual suspects and my good friend from many years ago that Steve Capner used to beat like a drum, my chan Kim. Steve put a Steve put a beating on him in the sports festival, which was world-class. I mean, took him to uh took him to a new planet of pain. But um the reason I say all that is that there's the mafia right there. You have the the PR group, you know, which is now being run by McNally and crew, and you got the PR guy, Maz Taekwondo, who apparently forgot what the truth was and just writes propaganda. But does he where does he come? Where does he come from? What countries he live in? Is it a socialist country or the guy that runs Maz Taekwondo?

unknown 26:22

I don't know.

herb 26:23

Argentina.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Argentina.

herb 26:24

Same thing, socialist country. So it makes more sense now. So he he is a guy that that's this is what they're gonna do now. So they're gonna prop themselves up. The good news about those kind of awards, just so you understand, people who get them never win anything. And they never win, it's like a curse. So they'll be cursed afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

I hope that's not the truth with uh with Hike, because I hope he keeps winning.

herb 26:45

Oh no, no, that I'm talking about the gift ones when you get a gift, not when you earn. So, you know, luckily, you know, that's that's the difference. He's a great fighter. Um, he put a listen, he put a beat down on CJ again in this last thing that I just watched, as if he didn't care. He put a beat down like, I'm gonna do this till I get tired of doing it, and I'm gonna do it some more the next time we meet. So get used to the second or third or no stand, because if he meets him before then he ain't going anywhere. But that's that's the beauty of athleticism.

Merch Push Special Guest Tease

herb 27:18

All right. Well, I know we this is what we wanted to talk about, but we have put it out. So this is the addendum to the amendment. Maybe I'll put it on the tail end of the other podcast. Go ahead. Monday, we got a special guest. Monday we got a special guest. Oh, prep, don't tell us. There's a special guest on Monday. All right, everybody, get to the merch site, get your merch. I'm still nice, I'm still waiting for mine. I know. And I'm the guy that created it, so I gotta go yell at somebody. I'm gonna go buy it.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I think I ordered mine before you, TJ, too. I know I do. What's going on?

herb 27:52

They must make it in the in the cornfields or the mines of the Ozarks, wherever this guy lives. Where do you live again? It's Ozarks.

SPEAKER_05 28:00

It's California.

herb 28:01

California, you gotta be in the middle of California. All right, this has been the warehouse 15. The truth is never far from us. We recognize the truth even though others may not, and we are out.

Spoken Word Outro On Fairness

SPEAKER_07 28:33

Rolled out the card, polished the floor, called it a legacy. Pan and banners, big bright board, empty transparency, good state sitting in the second row. Better never clear the gate. They skip the ladder, cut the rope, and crown that twist of fate. They skipped all good, jump past, better, landed on words with the plastic stuff. Our payback is a fat bitch, and baby, I'm the baddest. How do we get it? I'm so sorry, I'm not sorry. Tell me the why. Who drew that circle? Who said Cobest was fine? Skipped over good, jump past better, riding a word this time. Um laughter, backslap deal, names on a quiet list, people who bled for the break of steel, somehow just dismiss selected, not elected, stamp on the file. Someone's favorite, someone's friendly, called it merry, called it style. Truth got banned again. Skip over good, jump past better, land it on words with the plastic smiles, finding the shadows, think on the letter. How did we get here? Oh, it's the mouth, Steven, land it in the wood. Tell me the why you drew that circle who's the cobest was trying. Skip over good, jump past better, ride it or works this time oh yeah. Oh yeah. Was there a vote? Was there a voice? Or just a quiet little choice? Names erased like shark and rain, gold turned gray in a hallway frame. If this is honor, if this is fair, why is the truth not standing there? They skipped over good, jump past better, land it on works with a practice grid. Careful confetti, careful letters, while the real ones watch them spin. Steven living in the wood. Still not the while who call that best who sign that line. Skipped over good, jump past better, straight into words this time. Good in the shadows better outside, works on the stage in a borrowed sign. Stories whispered in cars, names in the dark that deserve those stars.

SPEAKER_06 31:50

Now payback is a bad bitch, and baby, I'm the baddest. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm not sorry.