Sven Lorrimer On Fighting For Guyana And Speaking His Mind

Taekwondo has never had a shortage of talent. The real question is whether the system still rewards the people who can build champions, fund development, and keep the sport honest when nobody is watching.

We sit down with Sven Tatafason, a Southern California product who fought internationally for Guyana and built a reputation as the guy who shows up to ruin your day. From Pan Am chaos to training room stories, Sven breaks down what it felt like to compete when matches were more brutal and strategy mattered across the whole fight, not just the sensor-friendly moments. We also go straight at the uncomfortable topics: electronic scoring, round resets, and why many veterans say Olympic taekwondo looks softer even though athletes work harder than ever.

Then we turn the spotlight on USA Taekwondo and AAU politics, including coaching selection, the trend of hiring foreign coaches, and why proven domestic coaches can get pushed out of the room. We talk athlete “poaching,” the cost of chasing the national team pipeline, and why underfunded junior, cadet, and collegiate programs create a future problem that no single coaching hire can solve. If you care about Olympic taekwondo, Kukkiwon ranks, poomsae standards, and real athlete development, this is the kind of conversation that usually happens off-camera.

If this hit a nerve, subscribe, share it with a coach or parent, and leave a review so more people find it. What would you change first to fix Taekwondo in the United States?

Transcript

Cold Open And Fighter Banter

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Sorry not. Sorry, Snowflake, we don't wear a whole snow. Here comes Sven. Stepping through the door. First round fight I've been knocked down before bad enough follows him like a shadow in a cloud. Tequila in his water bottle rumble keep him. Proud he wraps his hands up, slow, places up his boots. Trains with legends, chasting glory at the roots. But when the bell rings out, the floor comes off the meat 'em every single time. But that boy just won't quit believing. Speech, join him, mister Standard. But run just to warm up, that's what's been for another shot of the Tolkien.

herb 4:41

Because it was 15 plus another 15 plus another 15. We have a special guest today. I would black out his video so he could come on, but as much trouble as he had getting on, I don't want to get him off to get off, to get on. So this has been the warehouse 15. We're out good night. Oh no, I'm sorry, we're just starting. TJ's got to go to bed soon. He's already snuggled up in his little smurf costume. He's got his mood lighting on. Are you doing the red light therapy or the blue light therapy?

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Blue light therapy.

herb 5:07

All right, there we go.

Juan 5:07

Coach Moreno, how are you? Man, I'm good. I'm good. Man, I had a nice relaxing weekend. I'm a little bit tired right now because we were an hour and 35, hour and five minutes late. Because some Californian special guest don't know how to push play out of, I don't know, it's Commodore 64. I know, right?

herb 5:27

What's up with that name? What's up with that name? It says uh what's the name? He looks Puerto Rican, a Mexican, but his name is Swen Tatafason. He was doing wasn't that from wasn't that the the uh wasn't that in Let It Go, Let It Go? Wasn't he the snowman? Is he the snowman? Oh man. Anyway, welcome, welcome. I'm sorry. I don't want to get started. I usually save that for um for uh for Coach TJ.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Well, thank you guys for having me on.

Juan 6:00

Yeah, man, Sven. So look, bro, before we get into it, let's let's uh I know we got a lot of stuff to talk about. We have a lot of different ways to go. Today's a free flowing. You know, I know you've been asking to get on for a while, but um, before we start, let's uh let's get into a little bit about you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, um, you know, where you come from, your little taekwondo background. I know you be smoking all those LA boys, you know, for many years. So I gotta hear about some of those, some of those stories. Because I I gotta ask you about all your your your social media battles with your with your boys, man. You you you guys be going hard, hard. But give us some background, give us a little something.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

All right, well, shoot. I'm from Southern California. I'm born and raised in Whittier, went to Whittier High where they filmed Back to the Future. That's kind of cool. Um, I trained at a small school, started at a small school, and from there I kind of worked my way to Via Saekwondo, um where I started training under Obviously Master Via and then working with Gus and Damian, and uh, you know, because of them, you know, I got as far as I did. Sorry I didn't make Olympics, but hey, it is what it is. I was only I was mainly just an assassin, bro. I wasn't there to win, but I was there to fuck someone's game. And that's what I do.

Juan 7:16

So wait a minute, you started fighting for w when did you start fighting uh for for Guyana?

SPEAKER_05 7:20

Uh 2008.

Juan 7:23

2008. So you started with Mr. V like the father, and then because you're you're older than Gus and Damien, right?

SPEAKER_05 7:30

Um about a year older than Gus. Yeah.

Juan 7:32

Okay. Alright, so in the same age. So you start with the you start with the father, that's cool.

SPEAKER_05 7:37

Yeah, well, I started later, so I started as a kid at Victory Taekwondo because it was like right up the street from my house. And they only signed me up just because of the fact of like the free trial. My mom was being a little cheap ass, so she's like, oh, it's a free trial, but then realized I like it. So she kept me in, and then high school came. I saw for four years, came back when I was like 18.

Juan 7:58

Oh wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

And then I got one after me when I was about like 21. I started training with him.

Juan 8:05

You got in kind of real late. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that. Yeah, you Huh?

SPEAKER_05 8:12

Go ahead.

Juan 8:13

No, go ahead, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

I got in real late. Um I was uh I actually linked up with this one guy. Um you know me heart mehard Valeria you? Romanian dude. Oh, there you go. That's good enough. Anyways, uh I I I started with him and then I started crossing.

herb 8:30

I see his name on the internet from time to time.

SPEAKER_05 8:33

Okay. Uh well I started with him. He started working with me, and then which is crazy because uh one of my first videos that I started watching when I wanted to compete seriously was uh I actually watched uh TJ and uh Arnell Smith. And I actually just like the style, so I was like, I need to like kick way more. So I started working on triple kick.

Olympus Stories And Saturday Morning Fame

herb 8:56

Oh, you mean you saw their you oh I thought you saw like a video? Oh, I thought you saw their boy band. They were in a they were in a notorious boy band. Back to the future part due. They had a they were like the new, the new one of those new kids on the block meet the backstreet boys, but they did K pop fusion with a little Japanese twist. TJ used to dress up in a uh kilt and a samurai sword. He had a top knot.

Juan 9:22

Oh, speaking of that, hold on, tell my cut you off because I think this man's fan want to know about your Olympus outfit. Which one?

herb 9:30

Your Olympus. Dude, I got it right in my closet still. I still sleep in it. Can I tell you something? They made me they asked me first of all, they needed a name for me. And I heard that the really good names were already taken, like Moreno and TJ. And so then I said, Well, Olympus. And I said, they I said, you know, because I was the Olympic character. So then they wanted to put me in a gold thing with my my key symbol being a torch, but then they gave me purple belt. They gave me a purple belt. So if you have a key, if a purple, I'm like, I'm like, you know, what's up with the purple? And they go, it matches the gold. And I'm like, well, yeah, but a Laker, you're a Laker. I was a I had no idea.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

You know what's crazy is like I used to watch that show as a kid, and my favorite uh my favorite um character was I think tsunami or whatever, whatever it was. But that fool lost a lot, which kind of explains my taquinil career, but whatever it is. It is what it is.

herb 10:20

Well, this is tsunami. Lost a lot. Tsunami did tsunami was a nice guy. He and the Gwen, but he was the character he was supposed to be like Forrest Gump kind of, and he was that character that was meant to lose a lot. He fought me and lost. He fought, he pretty much, I think he lost to everybody. He eventually picked that loser. He eventually because I lost his name.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

His name was Tsunami. Yeah, but I thought he was gonna do something, but he always didn't.

herb 10:45

He was a power ranger.

SPEAKER_05 10:46

Obviously, not that powerful because he was a power.

herb 10:49

Well, he could do this kick. He was one of the first guys back then to do that reverse backflip thing. He called it the uh rainbow kick. So he would we'd be out like at a club. True story, him and this guy, Eric Betts, who's one of my those two guys were like my Hollywood Kung Fu mentors, and then we'd be out at like this place called Bam Baja Beach Club in um Orlando, and we'd be standing in line right before you know we they knew who we were, and these girls would be like, Oh, well, you guys uh he had a Power Ranger jacket. I go, You a Power Ranger? He goes, Yeah, I was Power Ranger. She goes, do something. And this cat would just in place jump up in the air, kick like a tree light or or or tree or or a light pole or something, and and land on his feet. These guys were the most unbelievable martial artists. We had so much fun.

Juan 11:38

I got back up. You said before people knew who you were, y'all were famous for for doing your for the that show.

herb 11:46

Can I tell you something? I was true story. I'm walking in New York. I'm walking in New York, and I'm in the dude. I'm in the village, and this big, thick Puerto Rican guy starts making his way. I see him like eyeballing me and making his way towards me. So I start balling up my fist because I think I'm gonna have to hit this guy because he's coming over to jack me. So he walks up to me and he goes, Yo, what's up, Olympus? Good luck this weekend. Swear to God. The people that would recognize me at the cartoon. Good luck, bro. Guy. Guys that would recognize me would be ticket takers at movie theaters, because they were up at that time, uh, kids in elevators for some weird reason, and then random Puerto Rican guys in the city. We had like uh 3.7 share, which meant about four million people watched us in the United States on a Saturday morning Fox. We were on Fox, you know, Fox TV for kids' show. That was cool.

Juan 12:43

Yeah, for sure it was cool.

herb 12:44

Yeah, no, no, but I didn't listen, I wasn't uh I wasn't.

Juan 12:47

Why do you send Sven one of those uh send them one of your little action figures, man?

herb 12:52

Dude, you know who didn't recognize me? Because whenever these action figures would come out, I go to Toys R Us and I'd buy them all. So I'd go into Toys R Us and I buy like 50 of them because I wanted people like I wanted there to be a run on my action figure. So I was doing a lot of seminars. So every city I went to, I'd go buy my action figure. I'd go up to Toys R Us Counter, I take out a checkbook, right? This back in the day when they take checks. Checkbook. And they go, Can I see your driver's license? And I'd hold up my action figure. And they go, doesn't look like you. But anyway, true story. But uh, I had a ton of these uh things, but they did get the muscles right. So if you take a look at it, you know. You're crazy anyway. But I did have my patented kick, my patented kick right there, and then it's got TJ's patent move. This is TJ's patented move.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Uh Master Herb's like the Rick Flair of Taekwondo. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

I was thinking when they told when we told you you're gonna come on a podcast. Do you remember when we did that NCTA collegiate Pan Am region tournament? It was like USA, Canada. You were there with Guyana and then Korea. You remember the Korean team? Pan Am? Yes, I swear to you. You remember?

SPEAKER_03 14:05

I remember, I remember.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

And Berkeley, yeah, they had us out there. It was USA team, Canada team. He was fighting for Guyana, and um, they had the Korean team there too.

Juan 14:16

Tell me, how did the Pan Ams get Korean there?

SPEAKER_04 14:19

So they let us fight our one fight with who the country, and then whoever won that fight would have to go fight Korea.

Juan 14:26

I got you, I got you.

SPEAKER_04 14:27

It was so random.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

I beat USA. I'm good. It's Jason Huang. Jason Huang.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

I thought Jason, I thought he beat you. You thought he won? You must have been drinking on the side, because that shit did not happen. Yeah, you won that match. Hell yeah, I won that match. I actually kind of remember. I okay, hey, you wanna know the funny part about it? I'm gonna disclosure. Everyone's a disclosure on this one. I wasn't even I just showed up. I just showed up, I didn't know what was going on, and they're like, I'm like, what's this? They're like, oh, it's the Pan Am Open, the Pan Am Championship for university. I was like, I want to fight. And they're like, oh it was in Berkeley, right? Yeah, it was in Berkeley, and they're like, they're like, what school do you go to? And I at the top of the head, Soridos.

herb 15:18

I I just want people, I don't know if you guys can see this, but I'm trying to show people where Guyana is. So just so everybody knows that's in.

Juan 15:27

He don't need S Ven. Where's it at? Where's it at? He don't even know.

SPEAKER_05 15:31

Yeah, it's not I've been there. I got sex here for two weeks.

herb 15:34

You lied.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

I swear.

herb 15:37

Guyana is near Venezuela, next to Suriname and Brazil.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

Yeah, my parents still have a heavy accent.

herb 15:48

Your parents live here?

SPEAKER_05 15:50

My parents live here, yeah. They still have heavy accents too. Like, I'm like, damn, you guys didn't even try like to change. Like you just left it there.

Juan 15:57

What do you guys speak? Spanish? No, English. You have English like with an accent.

SPEAKER_05 16:03

It's like Trinidad.

Juan 16:05

Ah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

Yeah, but we're better than them.

herb 16:12

We're better than them. Yeah. Well, tell us about the Schwann. When did you get the Schwen? Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_05 16:19

Okay, so my mom, my mom, when she was uh teenager, got she went to boarding school in Germany. And then she grew up in Germany. So my mom speaks Spanish, German, and English. And then she so the Sven came, yeah, from which is totally crazy because obviously I think uh Master Master Moreno was there when I fought Daniel Elkowitz, and when you hear Sven Loris coming out to fight, you're expecting a blonde dude and he just got little old me.

SPEAKER_06 16:45

You know.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

I was like, sorry guys. But I came to ruin the party, that was all I came to do, and I did I did what I had to do.

herb 16:53

Well that's good that you got to fight for Guyana. How long did you do that for?

SPEAKER_05 16:58

Uh I did that until 2016, so about eight years.

herb 17:01

Oh, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Yes, sir, yes, sir. You know, after the last Olympic trials, I just uh I just wasn't I just didn't have it in a w in me no more. I I I it took everything out of me and I said, you know what? It's time to focus on my life. I uh I was just dating my girlfriend who is my wife now, and uh yeah, just kind of said, you know what, uh after this tournament, I'll I'll get my shit together, and I did.

Juan 17:26

Jacob kids too, right?

SPEAKER_05 17:27

I got two boys, I got Zion and Sakai. Sir, nice. They're crazy.

unknown 17:33

They're crazy.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

They're crazy, you know. I want to start Sakai in Taekwondo, but the videos are so far. I low key, I don't trust any other school. Right now, my son is going to Zion's going to like this school called KTI in Ranchukamonga. And um my wife's like, let's sign him up. I'm like, absolutely not. Not doing it. Sorry, I'm just not wasting my time. You know, he can stick to soccer, you know what I mean? So uh Zion is seven, he'll be eight this year, and Zakai's two. Okay. Yeah, done. No more kids, that's it.

Juan 18:06

Why do you why do you think they're they're they're crazy? Look at your ass. You're crazy always shit, dude.

Poomsae Debates And Rank Reality

SPEAKER_05 18:11

They outdo me, man. They get me, I'm exhausted half the time. I purposely go to bed at 7 p.m. just so I can avoid them. So I can avoid them. That's that's peak hour. That's peak hour. No, but other than that, I came here to talk shit, guys. So, first of all, Master Herp, agree with me here. And TJ, let's get rid of Pumse. That shit is trash.

herb 18:36

You know, I've I've never been there's a we had a joke, you know, Pumsei was for people that couldn't fight, and that pretty much holds true. And then the second was Pumsei was something you do when you were injured. But in my school growing up, you had to do, we had an hour and a half class, and the first 45 minutes was literally going up and down the floor doing um down blocks and whatever. So I got to a point, especially when I got more rank, I didn't show up for that part of the class. Once I got black belt, I just came to the fighting class, which would make everybody really angry because you know they didn't.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

You never, you never, I know, I know. You never did Pumsei? Me? Oh, you know, LA Open Champion, baby. Oh no. Hey, that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_05 19:14

So why are you hating? Why are you hating? Because that's it, because it hasn't been good after me. That's why. That's just suck.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

You were the epitome, huh?

SPEAKER_05 19:22

Yes. Hey, I set the bar so high, no one could ever reach it.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Well, we're younger, we should have to do that. We had to do Pumsei too at like Nashville and stuff, but I most recently had to do it a lot.

herb 19:33

I had to do it a lot because I was doing uh I had to take my ninth Dan test, you know, and I was being judged. You know, if you can see behind me, that was those that was the group that judged me, and I uh I had to do my grandmaster test and get my ninth on. So I learned all the pumseys again and practiced them so that I would be proficient and sufficient.

Juan 19:54

What I what I hate about uh all that stuff is like that's that's what it's come down to nowadays. Like if you want to become a seventh, eighth, ninth degree, they're judging you on your pumse. That's that's it's it's crazy. Not like and it and I don't expect like again, let's say I'm way older and I'm gonna be a ninth degree. I I maybe I can't jump up and do you know kicks and break 30 bricks, but like, come on, that's what we're doing now. I mean, you're judging my pumse? That's crazy.

herb 20:21

So, you know, we had the same problem when we took over the USAT taekwondo coaching program because they had gifted so many people, imaginary uh coaching certificates and all this stuff. Yeah, and so we just came in and we said, listen, we're gonna set the newsstand, everybody's gotta go through the program. It made a lot of people angry. So I get what they're trying to do because so many Koreans. So what used to happen before they had to unveil the unveiling, they would basically send their stuff into the Kookie one after their time elapsed, and they say, You still teaching, yeah, I'm still teaching, and their senior would sponsor them. So you had all these Koreans who were bus drivers and and chefs in uh in in Node Bongs, and they would um get their seventh, eighth, and ninth degree black belts. So at some point they pulled the plug and I'd said, Okay, there are so many foreigners. Yeah, but so many foreigners are trying to get it. Let's make it a little harder. And because originally, seventh on was grandmaster, then foreigners started to get seventh, and then they made it eighth, and then they made it ninth now. So I don't know what they're gonna do now because once they figured out that the foreigners were gonna the only ones willing to stay in the building long enough, because Koreans pretty much give up on taekwondo after middle school, right? If they're not, if they're competitors, they don't do it anymore, they hate it, and they just stop doing it. So the only guys that were getting tested, ironically, are the Koreans who didn't compete, didn't win, and they were running dojongs. So they just kept going and bringing their soon as the cookie one, and they were becoming eighth and ninth degrees. The only country in the world that has the most, literally by far, is Korean ninth. Degrees. America has a handful of non-Koreans. I'm number six, I think, in America that's a non-Korean. They now have had a few more that have made it. Um, so maybe they're up to about 11 non-Koreans. The rest are all Koreans. Um, but uh it'll be interesting, and mark my words, they'll come up with a new designation because just far too many foreigners are getting ninth degrees. Well, let's talk about something more exciting. All right, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Exactly. You did it. You did it. You did it.

herb 22:33

Oh, you uh you are you are jealous. Don't be jealous. Look at the flower, not the seed. Look behind me. They're drinking so too, and they are not jealous. Uh Master Moreno, Master Moreno, you know, you too, uh, if you wait around long enough and get old enough, you can uh become a grand. Oh man, I'm about to be the double nickel, but you can become a grandma. No, you raise a good point. The question is, what should taekwondo be? It should be what you've dedicated to the sport, what you've done, what have you produced to make the sport move further? That's what they do in PhDs, create something new. And you've done that, I've done that. TJ, maybe one day. But the um, you know, I'm just saying, you know, I'm not judging or anything like that. Ben, what do you I mean, uh, what was that when was the last time you fought?

SPEAKER_05 23:17

How what how 2016? The last time I fought.

Juan 23:23

So obviously they've they've gone through like a couple generations of electronics, and I know you don't pay attention like like we do, but what do you think about all this stuff that's going on now? Like as far as like the fighters. What do you think about the fighters right now? What's your what's your gut feeling?

Why Modern Sparring Feels Soft

SPEAKER_05 23:38

That's just soft. I'm sorry. That's just soft. That's just not like what it used to be. It used to be more brutal. It was a fight, you know. Now we're just tagging each other. I I watch every once in a while, and I'm like, damn, dude, like this shit just got weaker and weaker and weaker and weaker. I don't like it, you know. I I can't do my double hard.

Juan 23:56

When you watch, when you watch, can you appreciate it, or are you just like you don't even you can't even follow it? You're just like, this is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

I can't even follow it, honestly. I just see legs flying everywhere and people falling on their head and trying to do the little Eric Cook kick every time, and it's like, man, it's enough. You know, I I've watched a lot of great athletes uh learn how to set things up, learn how to how you know back then what you you can lose your first two rounds, it don't matter. If you're smart enough to come back in that third round and win, you should win that fight. You know what I mean? No, it's not like that. It's it's pretty stupid. You know, you don't like the round by round system? Oh, really? I like the round by round system. Like, yeah, you have to push the pace, like you have no choice but to push the pace.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

But maybe I mean the reset. I mean, I mean the reset. Like after you win the first round and it goes back to zero zero, you can win the second round and then force the third round. I kind of like it.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

You like it?

SPEAKER_04 24:50

I kind of like it. I think hey, do one more tournament, bro. Fuck no, absolutely not. Come on, one more that's not enough for who? Who who am I fighting who you got for me to fight, bro? Who should I fight?

SPEAKER_05 25:03

Shit. Let me see. You want to do well-like wear or welterweight?

SPEAKER_04 25:07

Bro, I'm gonna get on the scale. Whatever I weigh at is what I weigh. Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

Damn. You know, it's hard because everyone else that you fought that was a great match, is probably way too old now.

herb 25:20

Nice shirt. Don't forget the merch. Sorry, not sorry, baby. Warehouse 15 uncut. You gotta send us an address and we'll send you a shirt for being on.

Juan 25:30

Yeah, don't wait too long because you know, Master President, he's notorious for setting that stuff in like in six years.

herb 25:36

Yeah, you gotta get it while the getting is good. But the uh, but do it quick before they suspend you from the AAU for talking to us.

SPEAKER_05 25:45

Hey, what's up with AAU, man? Why are you guys growing my riding that dude so hard, man? Leave him alone. He's alright.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Leave alone. We leave it alone.

SPEAKER_05 25:55

Oh man, hey, look, I'll be honest. The only reason why I don't attack AAU, I don't believe the fact that DJ and Master Moreno should be in AAU jail. I don't agree with it. I don't. You know, I don't agree with it. The only thing I can't step on the toes of is because when I was training and I will go to New York, I I trained at Master O' School. You know, I I I'm friends with Andrew O. You know what I mean? But I just can't. That one I can't speak on. USAT, I'll trash all day. You know, AAU, it's just AAU, man. It's just AAU, you know, but free Master Moreno and free TJ 2026.

Juan 26:34

Yeah, but to be honest with you, Sven, it's not about first of all, man, not talking about Andy. This has nothing to do with Andy, you know. So, like, I mean, it's it's and and to be honest with you, we were we were doing a lot of things with AAU, a lot. I mean, yeah, T T just went on a trip. It was the problem is, and I don't think it was AAU's call, but they certainly obliged the USAT. And next thing you know, you know, something that we've been doing for over a year with with no problem, also became a problem. So that's that that's that's that's when it became a problem, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_05 27:09

So no, I and I understand that. I I completely get that. Yeah, for me, it's just a little sticky situation because you guys are in the battle with it. Um, I obviously like you guys, I'm with you guys, you know what I mean? Um I just don't my my major thing with USAT, why I've been talking so much shit online, is it doesn't make sense from what I'm seeing. You know what I mean? Why is TJ not on there? You know, and I'm talking, I'm talking Jennings, I'm talking Curry. I know Master Herb is not a big fan of Curry, but I that's my guy.

herb 27:38

There's a lot of guys that Curry hasn't, I mean, let's be frank. Curry Curry hasn't won anything. Curry Curry is another Steve Lambdon. He was a would have been, should have been, could have been. Did Curry go? Did Curry go to the Olympic boat? Oh, I uh well, you're right. He can't be in the same boat. Did Curry go to the Olympics? No, he didn't. I'm sorry, no, no, hold on a second. Did Curry go to the Olympics? Did Steven go to the Olympics?

SPEAKER_05 28:04

He did.

herb 28:05

That's it? No, no, not nothing else to say. At that point, the conversation stops. Is Curry more talented? Yeah. So are a bunch of players. But he didn't, when the time came to do what he had to do, he was following, he was fought. No, no, hold on. He was following his father. His father was his worst disaster. And as a result of that, he was an underwhelming player who had a lot of talent and ability, but he's another had has been, would have been, could have been. Now that's not saying he's not a nice guy. I know a lot of nice guys. There's a ton of Koreans in the same boat as that. At the end of the day, Taekwondo is a competitive sport. Put up, shut up. You don't make a team, shut up, sit down.

Juan 28:43

Yeah, but we're not talking about we're not talking about that right now. I mean, I was just we're talking about coaching. We're talking about like what's he doing. So I mean, listen, if someone made it to the Olympics, they made it to the Olympics. I mean, he did, you know, Lambden did, but as far as Rick Curry, I I know where you're going with it. It just seems like there's some other coaches out there, whether it's Gianni Giabe, whether it's the Via's, whether it's TJ Curry, whether it's Terrence Jennings, whether it's Joe Whitworth saying Cha.

SPEAKER_05 29:06

The list goes on and on and on and on that there's, you know, I would say there's more deserving, there's more deserving people that actually give back to the sport and actually do what do what they have to do to check the boxes to be a coach.

herb 29:18

Well, you know, it's uh it's simpler than that, though. The question becomes this. Forget, I don't even want to get into ranking and naming coaches because I I probably shouldn't and couldn't. But I will say this, and this is the easier way to say it. And I said this, and I think Coach Moreno was there when I said it. There was a time when they didn't score punches in Taekwondo. So I stood up in the head of team meeting because I was head of team, and I said, Can I ask you a question? I said, so you say, I said, in the history of mankind back then, there hasn't been a single punch scored in Olympic or world championship taekwondo by a man in the male heavyweight division or in the middleweight division. You understand what you're saying? You're saying that there's not a man, a man with testicles, that can punch hard enough to score a point in the Olympic sport of Taekwondo. Means they're not good enough and talented enough. I've punched guys in the chest and I had to pull my hand out of their chest so they could start to breathe again, and that wasn't good enough. So take it off the books. Now, what I'm saying to you, I want you to understand the rationale. What they're saying by hiring two British coaches and now a Korean coach who also has never coached, there's not a man or a woman or a child in the entire United States that's capable of coaching the U.S. team. There's not one. Forget about whether it's JJ Cuckoo, Wuku, Puku, Muku, Mugu Gaipan, uh you know, Jambi Kalaki. It doesn't matter. There's not a single American male, domestic or otherwise, Sven, Willie, Wonka, whoever that is capable of coaching Olympic taekwondo, they have to go outside the country, despite the fact that they brought in two Schleichmasters, and those two idiots were supposed to be developing coaches for the eight years, and they brought in the the hand boys, the bag carrying boys, the latest of which is Steve Steve Lumden, and Lumden can't coach. And that's the best we have. And they're telling them, oh guys, you're not ready yet. They're doing the Korean thing. Oh, I'm sorry, you're not ready. When you're ready, we'll let you know. You just don't understand enough. So let's go find somebody else. We're gonna find a child, a man child who competed, who's never coached, has no history of coaching, so he couldn't have success or failure.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

So I'll ask you, why do you think people cheer for this? What? I watch the online. I see.

herb 31:43

They like K-pop. He looks like a K-pop star. They like K-pop and they watch K-pop demon hunters or whatever the hell.

Juan 31:50

You were talking about everybody wants to get the like be a fanboy.

SPEAKER_05 31:54

I mean again, yeah, they want their picture. Honestly, they want their picture. And I saw Herb like my comment when I saw that. I'll say that online. Yeah. They want a picture. And that's straight up. Honestly, my personal opinion get rid of the bricks, get rid of Lambden, put someone else who's more worthy, and let that let Day Hun Lee collaborate with them. That's how you build people. That's how you get it going. You don't just put a bandit over and say this guy's gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Because obviously Paul Green and I guess my issue is I guess my issue is I don't feel like they never claimed they needed to be fixed, and now we're fixing it. What are we fixing? And you're because I know I know you've been watching and paying attention, all this stuff, but like what in your eyes, what's what's what's happening? Are we bringing a new coach to adjust the system? Are we are what are we doing? What are we doing?

herb 32:36

It's the Epstein files. It's the Epstein files. Look over here, don't look over here. In other words, if you bring in a new this is a and this is from the Jay Warwick playbook. He gave me this. This is Jay Warwick, by the way, who's got some skeletons in his closet, which I won't bring up here. But this is the Jay Warwick playbook. It's the CEO story. When you hire a new CEO, the old CEO on the way out gives him some advice. He says, Listen, the old the new CEO says, Can you give me some advice? He says, Well, and Jay told me the story, I'm not joking with you. He says, I wrote three letters, I put them in your drawer. When you get in trouble, open the first one. When you get in trouble, open the second one, when you get in trouble the third time, open the third one. So sure enough, he says, That's it. He goes, Yeah. So he goes, works for a while. After a few months, he gets in trouble, opens the first letter. He says, Blame it on your predecessor. Starting to sound familiar? Tell him you need more time. Okay. Gets it does it for a while, gets in trouble again, opens the second letter. It says, Tell him it's worse than you thought. We need more money. Works for a while. That's to the third letter, because he gets in trouble again. It opens it up and what does it say? Write three letters. It's time, brother. Write three letters, Jay. It's time. You can't keep doing the Epstein files on us, brother. Can't keep hiring the latest thing that you think is going to distract us from the truth. I'm gonna at the end of this thing today, I'm gonna make a I'm gonna I have an idea which I'll share with everybody at this point. But it's time for Jay Warwick and Steve McNally and and whatever the rest of their names are green, brown, pink, and blue, the the reservoir, fake dogs. Time for you to write three letters. Because it's starting to do that.

Juan 34:20

I mean, but like I I'll give this to you two guys down there, you know. So you asked, like, what are we trying? Are we trying to fix something? Are we adding to something? I mean, what what what do you guys think?

SPEAKER_05 34:32

Nah, what it is is you ever seen that commercial where that water tank is leaking, they put a piece of tape over it and it fixes it? That's what they think they're doing. That shit does not work. I'm telling you right now, those guys were supposed to give results and they're not doing it. We have a bronze medalist right here. Right here. Why can't he do it? Why can't he coach? Why is he not there? Why is Patrick Pearson not there?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

They've made sure every person that's with someone that can actually get them further than they can, or is just as far as they can are pushed out of the equation. It's either you win in their room or you don't win at all. They don't want you to win unless you're in their room. They can't afford for you to win unless you're in their room.

Juan 35:10

You know, the ironic thing is the the TJ, and you know this, Finn. I don't know if you realize this, like three of their big stars have all kind of come through our program.

SPEAKER_06 35:19

Yeah.

Juan 35:20

It's crazy. And you know what I'm saying? For as much as they can't stand me or or TJ or Peak or whatever, but there's three of three of their big pro three of their big people, and I want to like, it's not the kids' fault, you know what I'm saying? Like, because you know, I like the kids and they're they're good people. And you know, but it's funny that to your point, we must be doing something right because you want our athletes, you know, and just just one of them was there for two months and and went to the world and got a medal. And he was working with, he was being coached by TJ, you know, since I've been working with Brazil for the last couple years, trained and lived him, grew up in Miami. Everything was great, everything is fine. But I mean the kid had financial problems and they they told him that they would fix all that kind of stuff, and now we're gonna see what happens, you know. And it's it's it's funny because TJ said this a few times that you know, like when coaches want to grab somebody, but they're it's it's really not the right time. It seems like it's the right time, but there's still so much that they're trying to learn. And when you rip them out of that that learning environment and throw them into that room, I don't want to say they're not ready for it, but you're taking them too early. And then we, if you can't develop them, that's when they all fall off. Because you you look at the history of, you know, and I think we've talked about this many times, you know, on this podcast about some of these athletes that have have gone there and they've been pretty good talent. And just where what happened to them? Where do they go? You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:51

Like honestly, I uh back in 2013, I thought when they brought Patrice, Master Patrice in, I thought that was great. I thought that was a great move. That guy is so crazy and so passionate and knows his stuff. And USAG treated him like shit.

Juan 37:06

Yeah, I beg listen, he he he took he took my I I thought I was getting a raise. I went to the Olympics with two athletes and got two medals. I'm like, dude, like but so new CEO comes in, cleans the slate, blah blah blah, and brings in Patrice. Of course, I wasn't happy, I was shocked because his name wasn't even on the radar, but whatever. He comes in, it took me all of a year, we became good friends. I mean, I begged the guy, I begged the guy not to leave because you're right, they started treating him bad, blah blah blah, and here we are, you know.

SPEAKER_05 37:46

Yeah, I I luckily I got the chance to train with him in Colombia. They and like they had invited me to some Colombian camp.

SPEAKER_06 37:52

I remember that, yeah. I remember that.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

And they and I went there, and um man, like I for the for the week I was there, I I learned a lot from that guy. But you know, even Nia, like I moved around with Nia. It's hard to talk to her because I don't know where her head's at. But even when I moved around with her, she taught me a lot. Like, you learn from these things, and you have these athletes that are right there that can train, can't coach, but then you bring British guys in. You bring Korean guy in. You know, when T I I'll tell you a backstory when TJ and like Chase Graham were trying to get on the national team staff, they were promising them the world. Oh shit, man, like we're gonna make you coach and whatever. Hey, sorry, we ain't got no money, kick rocks. But now they got money.

Juan 38:38

You know what's said about said about like you know, Curry's situation is that he put two people in the national team this year, you know, and like if that's your boy, that's your guy, like why wouldn't you? Tell me about it. You you would think that you would be like, Man, come on, we now now we can use you. Now it makes sense.

The Room Problem And Athlete Poaching

SPEAKER_04 38:55

It should be the easy way, right? It should be like, oh, okay, now like I can it's justifiable, but we're talking about things being justified and justifiable in any decisions they make. It it makes no sense. Like, I I like I think I told us before on this podcast, this goes back to 2018 where they started bringing those guys around and having them be a part of the trips and going over there and and being in GB with them and and and and being next to them as they're coaching and all this stuff. And they and even him putting two people on a national team, what we're like six, seven years later, still can't be on a national team staff. It's you can't make again. I just wanted it to be make it make sense. I I can't, I can't. I can't, I can I know they're not gonna mess with me. I know they don't they've already pushed me to the side, and they're not gonna give me any kind of credit, let me do anything. If you take uh go completely just that direction of things that they've quote unquote developed and people they've worked with along the times they've been here, those people still aren't on the team. We got a bunch of new faces, and I and again, justify it or not, we got a bunch of new faces that are that are coaching multiple teams. Yeah, like why why is this particular person so good and so much better than everybody else that they have to have multiple spots on multiple teams?

Juan 40:06

Yeah, why not spread it out? Why not why not give more people chances?

SPEAKER_05 40:10

I I don't know. What I don't understand, you got guys like let's say Damien V, right? I'm gonna use him. Damien, obviously, we know his accolades, we know his success, you know his success in uh taekwondo. But then we have Nikki Oliver, which I have no problem with. I like her, but she fought for Puerto Rico. Well, what's the reason why she went to Puerto Rico? Because she couldn't do it in the US. Nope. You know what I mean? And I'm not trying to ashamed. I'm pretty sure after this she's gonna follow me. Fuck it, whatever, but I'm gonna be honest. You know what I mean? You got guys that gave me the right sitting right there to give everything, and those kids, his students always always get results, always.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Always he's on one of the teams, right? Was he on a junior or cadet team?

SPEAKER_05 40:56

Something, but like he should be more involved, you know. We re can use his knowledge, they can use Gus's knowledge. They can you know there's a lot of guys out there. James Howe. Why where's James Howe at? Why why is he being silenced?

Juan 41:09

The Smith brothers from California, from Southern California. They've you know, they've had people on the national team many times. Oh, cadet junior and senior.

SPEAKER_06 41:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 41:18

Yeah, you know what I mean? With disclaimer, those some of those students that they had used to be my students, but whatever. Anyways, but no, they do deserve, you know, more than that. And there's a lot of guys that they kind of push to the side, and it's not even right, like USAT's a fucking shit show, and you know what I mean. I'm gonna keep talking shit about them because what do I have to lose? I have nothing to lose, I don't care, you know, but I'm gonna keep telling it's a scam. They're gonna raise the prices. Where's where's the junior support? Where's the senior the seniors? Obviously, some of them are taken care of, but where's the junior support? That's the future. These senior guys, these guys are gonna age out pretty soon, and they're gone. And that's what happens with one of these teams. Like, Master Bardactos, love the guy. He had a great squad until they all aged out. You know what I mean? And I had this talk with Stephen Lynn like a couple weeks ago because he lives in LA. So I see I talked to him a lot. Um, we actually were in Vegas during US Open.

Juan 42:14

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 42:15

And we were just like, Do you want to go see Taco Del People? And I was like, definitely not. Some people are like, dude, you should show up after talking shit about USAT and just pull up to USA and be like, what's up? Yeah, if I should have a like if Master Herb was with me, say that USAT scam with a sign, shit, I'd do it all day. I'm not gonna do it alone. Might as well.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

I guess, I guess that's my point. When you say it's a scam, like you got all these people when they make decisions like to bring in another foreign coach, which I'm sure they're gonna pay him, and we talked about it last time, a good little chunk of money to be here. But it has to realistically has to. The realistically, it only affects one room, right? At best. At best, we'll only get the effects from one room. So just from Nat's standpoint, I call scam. I call that's why I'm so confused when I see all the our membership or people, and I will say all a good chunk of the membership, like, you know, supporting this and cheering for this as if like this changes anything for the overall program whatsoever that's gonna affect if they have a kid or they have a junior, even if they have an early, early senior. It don't, this is not for you. I don't know if they understand that it's it's not for you, you know. Like I and I said it before, we this whole system has been hijacked. And the reality is if you're not in that room, you're gonna have to do one hell of a job trying to make an Olympic team from outside. Is it? I mean, that's just how it goes. That's why everybody follows up there. I know we you said, Coach Moreno, about the you know, financial thing, but I think that's also a part of our problem as a, I don't know if as a culture or a group, we we tend to wanna follow the carrot and like, oh, if you give me this little bit, I'll do this. And we sacrifice what's right for us. We sacrifice which rooms we should be in. We sacrifice being next to the people that have gotten us to levels that this has been able to even have a conversation about money. Like that's where I get a little lost in the whole thing. the it's the the fake hoorah and it's the making the decisions simply because it's a it it feels special and everybody wants to feel special when you're winning when you're winning I don't think there's a point why why are we going somewhere? Why are you changing when you're on a good direction and and and and doing good things like I I I'm not I'm not convinced that I ever had to do that in my career but also just overall I don't think that's a we we lose development at that point right then and there you can make a case you can make a case for someone that hasn't got to where they want to get to and saying I need to be in a better room.

Juan 44:35

I need to be with some different people I need a fresh set of eyes a fresh you know set of words a fresh environment but when you look at guys like oh Victor Rodriguez I I've mentioned him a lot this kid is doing great he's winning all over Europe he's doing he makes the national team at his own house with his own coach you know going to Europe why what what's the need to take him out of that like you know I'm saying it's rolling it's it he's doing well why take him out Michael Rodriguez Michael Rodriguez the same thing. I mean I'm gonna go like this you got an Olympic athlete an Olympic coach Olympic coach that with medalists people that you know made Olympians for Mexico and helped with Brazil like I'm not good enough I'm not good enough to keep that kid in my room they gotta you gotta take him away and put him in the other room I don't know we're gonna see I mean I like the kid so much of course I want to see him successful but you know when you see some of the things that have that that has transpired it makes you wonder if it can happen for that kid if it can happen for Victor.

Collegiate Taekwondo Then And Now

SPEAKER_04 45:46

I hope it can but we don't know we don't know it's crazy yeah that that that to me is the scam part I I just I'm always confused when I just see people cheering and celebrating or congratulating and like you know things that I don't I'm sure like they feel like we do they don't really believe in it they don't they don't really know what it means for the program as a whole it literally it doesn't mean anything for the program as a whole you know we spent more money from the the membership to go pay for another coach to come here and meanwhile we're attempting to send our junior team to a trip and with no funding cadets with no funding like it it just doesn't make any sense if you're gonna fix the system fix the support first this guy's not gonna come and just be the junior team coach is he is there is like we don't even we don't run a system where we we have that much contact with junior it has to just you know what I mean it's just for the room for the room what's crazy for me is the room is not that big it's not that filled you already yes that's my point you got a lot of people there like you had to pay X amount of dollars for another one for one that doesn't speak you know the language too well yeah but put it this way like I remember uh collegiate team used to every other year it would be funded right I think it was like 2000 when was Texas AMTJ was that 2006 seven the that was probably seven I think seven or eight seven sounds around seven that's the only one I went to and I actually did go to college in that time it's the only one I went to I actually showed up and that was the last time it was funded why is that shit not funded no more why are juniors not funded I used to be funded by the USLC that the the university games and stuff used to be a big deal now now I got to long tips for that I got a fundraiser to get to the tournament well I fucking fundraise to get to the team trial or the actual tournament like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 47:37

That's why I think personally like even the collegiate team the talent has gone down I used to watch the collegiate team and that shit was hard to get on I read I showed up I got Brian Gallagher and all kinds of crazy guys in my in my division and I'm like damn this is killer's row. Now you show up and I was like man where did this guy come from like I don't even understand how this happened.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

You know it's kind of embarrassing you know and that's what we have to show yeah the collegiate team the collegiate program used to be huge in the US like it's so funny.

herb 48:05

I always talk to um my wife Matt about that and she's like they don't have that same system in Canada it wasn't the same they didn't push people but I remember that was like one of our targets you made the junior team and your next goal was to make the collegiate team like that was that was a part of the process and it kind of just naturally always happened that way because you probably weren't good enough already to go make the senior national team because we had layers on layers on layers but that collegiate team was tough to make it to us it sure was which Pastor Herbie fall asleep I'm just laughing because the collegiate team was a joke for us I mean I knocked out every opponent I went to collegiate trials I knocked out every opponent won it a couple years and Steve Baker and I won it but it was you know I mean it was for us the collegiate team was back then was worse than the AAU. The only thing worse than the collegiate team was the AAU. So the AAU I I never fought in an AU tournament because I would be embarrassed too I didn't I wouldn't fight the people that fought in that kind of tournament then I fought the collegiate team because I was trying to make the national team and but I literally knocked out every opponent the years that I fought and but that's that's what TJ's saying it it was a stepping stone like in it was a stepping stone but that was like me winning a do I it was tougher for me to win Madison Square Guard in the all-American tournament than it was to fight in the collegiate stuff arguably it got better and and uh they were like depending on the division too like Dr. Cape Yes he had Mike Kim and guys like that in that in that in that tournament um Scott Maranty fought in it but as a middleweight did you do a university world champion did you do a university world championships or university games the years that I won it they didn't have it.

Juan 49:48

Yeah they there wasn't that yeah so the um yeah the it was an interesting it was an interesting thing but the um yeah I don't want to mention the guy's name no mention it say it no no it's a guy it was a guy that won the the year that I didn't because I just stopped fighting because it was too easy the year I didn't fight the guy that won it came to national team trials and I knocked him out in two minutes of the first round so like um it wasn't you know it was a listen there's always divisions that were the the university people like yeah like featherway was tough you had Mark Lopez you had like you know I remember when Peter Lopez used to fight I mean you had even Brian Gallagher it was some there was always you know scrappy thing yeah yeah it was different but you know like we had a you know we had a bunch of guys that came through the legacy of my school back in Jersey and New York and um they went on to be collegiate national champions and national team members um but you know the AAU un I mean unless it's till recently it didn't matter no nobody cared about the AU and that's why they don't they don't I mean if I were the AAU right now I'd be I didn't know it was they wrote a they wrote a hundred thousand dollar check to USA taekwondo I'd I'd have those guys fired I'd I'd I ever moved the board.

herb 51:13

I mean makes you wonder I don't know it doesn't no no I know why I it's it's really clear to me there was a picture that was put on the internet that made everything perfectly clear to me you know we have the Schleichmeister um McNally um tomorrow maybe he'll have uh is he Irish I don't know but maybe tomorrow's a good day for him it's St. Paddy's Day um but uh he luck of the shamrock exactly he um he's doing the PR thing so he's they're taking money the AAU should not be giving money to USA taekwondo that's a direct conflict between the amateur sports act and everything else they're trying to cull influence and the reason the AAU was removed from the Olympic movement was exactly that that can I ask you no well I mean I don't know what you guys think about this. I mean again you donate a hundred grand for whatever it's supposed to be for the cadet team super how is that helping my AAU at their grassroots development let me finish this where I'm going with this you do that and and there's a board seat coming up in November and it's gonna be from the military collegiate or AAU one of those three organizations what do you think is gonna happen well shit you got a hundred thousand reasons on the leg up I'm you know what I'm saying I mean if that's not a conflict of interest I don't know what is but at which point does the AAU fire that guy in other words the guy who cut the deal and and paid the road the check he took here I am let's say I was that parent I'm Joe AAU I got a I got a kid he's a little chubby can't really do taekwondo that well he fights in AAU tournaments he gets a medal he goes home he feels good the referees are all incompetent and he feels good about himself I pay my AAU dues I do what I'm supposed to do and then you're supposed to be helping my kid develop now you take$100,000 worth of that money to featherbed yourself a seat on USA taekwondo so you can go to 2028. Let's be clear as a board member you want to get that little pass which by the way I don't have to be on USA I can get mine from my boys over in the in Asia so I I get my own all access pass if I want it. Well it's not about you it's about them I don't have to write a$100,000 check to get one. Now if you don't have those kind of friends boo-hoo boo-hoo but you write a$100,000 check from a from a nonprofit to feather bet a board seat for yourself so you can go to the LA games on a guest pass for three days to watch taekwondo because that's what's going to happen. So mark my words here's what happens AAU gets a seat on the board that seat goes to uh who's they go to the chair or the or the director it goes to oh he's the clown behind the show it should go to the AAU chair it won't go to Merza what merza merza merza's a cavari guy no no no no no no it should go to the chair who's the chair alex covert uh he's he already he's already been out and he's a little manipulative bastard right well doesn't matter i'm saying i'm i'm i'm being devil's advocate right now but no no alex does alex hasn't figured out yet he's a bag boy he's a chokey boy he's holding he's holding the jock strap of oh right because oh thinks he's the player behind the seat who wrote the check Juan who writes that check who's in charge of the I still don't even know how it's possible like I I I it's it's like the craziest thing ever.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

And it's just public knowledge is even crazier. I mean I've heard it from so many different people and like you know like rumors are rumors but these are coming from people that know what's going on on the inside and like they see it.

herb 55:05

It's just an insane one one of the first things that you learn one of the first things you learn as a board member elected official whatever it is and I've been all of those you know a bunch of organizations you have an you have a fiduciary responsibility to not misuse or abuse the trust of the membership and the money of the membership in any form or fashion. Can't embezzle it can't use it for personal gain. You have a second fundamental responsibility as a board of director not to have a conflict of interest perceived or actual just the perception of a conflict of interest makes you challenged as a board member.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

So and you have to disclose it and you have to have all their strategic alliances with all the Masticity news outlets and everyone's strategically calling it you can write no no hold on let me give you let me give you the point though you can write a$100,000 check but you better not be at the Olympic games on a pass and you better not be on a board seat because that's where the conflict they have they have selective you know like you know the funny thing is they have selective you know conflict if it was me or you it would be a conflict if it's somebody else ah they let it go that's you know but again uh if we wake up this time next year and that cadet team isn't fully funded it should be a big problem for those kids it should be a big problem and next year they got two trips next year they got two trips they have a Pan Am and a world championship next year for cadets they need to do a lot for those cadets they need to take them to open they need to take you know you want to prepare and be the best country in the world you prepare them right you take them to opens like look at Mexico man they go everywhere they don't just do one or two tournaments they do multiple tournaments I remember Damien being on team and he would always tell me the schedule oh we're going to Dutch open we're going to German open we'll do the whole European tour.

SPEAKER_05 56:58

You know what I mean that's how those guys get so good then they go to Korea for like a month and train why why can't the US do that why because the whole they do it for like they do it for about five of them it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

It's crazy.

Juan 57:12

But you know it's funny you've been how for how long and you still understand the that process I mean that that that doesn't go away right that development doesn't go away no I mean so I I understand it like again I've been out the game for so long but it doesn't mean like I I'm not competitive like I still watch and see things like trust me my shit talking doesn't come because I'm bored it's well yeah it does but it comes because I don't like to lose in anything you know I like to oh I like to win every argument even when I'm losing if you're already pissed off I won you know I could be wrong and I won but I I don't know like I I watch this shit and it's a joke it's a bad it's a major joke.

SPEAKER_05 57:52

Like it calls fade a spade man and USAT knows this shit's crooked you say USAT knows that they're fucking up left and right but they ain't gonna admit it yeah but all these people walk around and shake their hands and smile and you know like the like the because they don't want to lose the limelight though they don't want to lose the limelight but what even like even like even like some of your even some of your friends do that even like your when you get the the that group that you you go back and forth with you know with uh Mr Williams and and and uh my boys I know but they but they but not you know not both of them but like they'll be the first one to give a quick comment you know quick quick uh uh you know yeah this is good that's good and you're like what are you saying like you don't even like we don't we don't always agree on everything you know I know myself and um master wins and Rashid we don't always see eye to eye our our main honestly our main thing on Instagram has been talking shit but I don't I I I respect Master Williams even though the fact that like you know he didn't want to be a national team coach you know he was a Panamanian coach for Carolina Karsteens and stuff like that but like he has a different view I don't argue with him too much because I just out of respect but you know you know I mean I out of respect for Rasheed fuck that guy you know I just talk shit about him all fucking day fuck that dude but but he's a good guy in heart he's a really good guy he's done a lot of good outside that he doesn't need to talk about that I know about but I did get on his ass one time because he was talking shit to TJ and I'm like yo have some respect dude I was like that was wild I didn't even understand what was going on I don't know why I don't know and it was him and some other guy telling me how uh USAT if it wasn't for USAT protecting me I'm like you guys got the wrong guy or something like that. Man that other dude other dude from Montana that guy's a joke man that guy anyway I forgot about that I didn't I didn't even know that guy I was watching and I'm like yo man chill out nah yeah so many people came up to me and apologized to me afterwards for that guy I was like I was so confused I have no idea I was way out of left field but you know I mean you know Rasheed he says a lot of right things but sometimes like we don't see how to eye things and I get his way of thinking sometimes but sometimes I'm like yo like step back you know but the other guy had no speak reason to speak in whoever that guy was yeah but how are you guys all friends how you so how good friends with Rasheed honestly it's funny because I've ran into Rasheed multiple times at tournaments and stuff we talk we say hello um randomly just online we just start talking shit to each other and that shit just really and it just he he doesn't get hurt by the things I say the only thing we don't mention is wife and kids and that's it but everything else goes but it just did you guys did you guys have that conversation like all right man we can talk shit but no wife and kids no it's just never it's just it's just never I think we just mutually agreed like without even talking about it. You know I think I think he realized he can say whatever he wants about me. I think one time this dude posted on the internet saying asking if I'm still selling drugs to today's youth and I'm like yo what are you what are you doing?

Old School Brackets And Hard Lessons

Juan 1:01:02

Like he's just crazy but he's a he's a good dude like I remember one time I and I'm gonna disclaim this I know he doesn't want to brag about it he said for his birthday he wanted to help someone out for his birthday and give two thousand dollars and uh I have a friend that's a single mom she's been single when she's 18 she struggles sometimes and he actually gave her two thousand dollars to help pay her rent oh like like I said Rashid I take I say he's a piece of shit he's actually not but who was that who was that there's so I don't even know if you know this because back in the day when he used to chair with Greg Tubbs there was Rasheed and another guy TT Williams Williams Will Jackson's William Jackson moved in Miami with us oh my god forget that Will Jackson but um those two there was one other guy too another a a taller kid a lankier kid oh anyway Rasheed and and Will they used to come to all my seminars when I would be in in Texas so well so well mannered so polite so humble work hard work with everybody so I knew them from back then but then when I saw all this stuff blow up online with you guys I was like damn these guys are funny man you know what we got you know it's all funny games we you know right now he's on Ramadan that's why he's not even online so I told him like I talked to him I was like I'm gonna talk shit about you because you know what I mean no but he's a good guy he he he means well those guys mean well like he's got a good business right he's got a good business yeah he actually knew nothing about that like he was working for somebody and did research and made his own business it's crazy good for him so that guy you know he does a lot he's a good dad he's just you know he's a single dad but he's he does he he has full custody of his son he does a great job he's always posting his son so I respect him for that you know he's a good guy you know what does Will do right now do you know TJ no I don't no I haven't seen him for a minute when ghost he he's a good guy too he's another good guy smart guy too smart guy he's he's my dude he's my dude yeah will's will's super cool I remember he used to date this girl from uh out here and I would see him from time to time and I'll be out here on vacation he's like can we train I'm like no I'm not training with you right now like I'm drinking leave me alone I saw you beefing with Damien he said he whooped you up he said he gapped you two times you fucked that's true you know why because that shit was ring that that shit was ring rules in the street I beat his ass I don't give I don't give a shit about the ring like that shit's fake it's like social media it don't exist I'm just telling you right now I don't give a shit about that if you didn't knock me out it don't count it don't count bro he didn't put me if he was that good he could put me to sleep but obviously not so like I lasted you know what I mean I survived you know several points later anyway I know he paid those Mexican refs I know it so you guys fought for real you guys fought for real somewhere though right yeah okay so check it out dude so like we all obviously train with each other we go to a tournament they put it as first round we go at it I lose again we put we fight again and I lose one time I trained with his brother Gus we were training for like four months straight for US Open we show up to US Open together first round damn you lost I lost but it's okay it's okay I'll take that L.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:34

But you know what I mean they both lost to Danny Elkwitz and I'm the only one to avenge both of them so they owe me shit. They owe me that they owe me and you know what all respect to Danny Elkwicz stand up guy great guy we had a great time I we after uh we fought I saw him in Daytona and uh some guy was actually trying to fuck with him at a club and me being me I'm like yo like talking shit to the guy and then the guy trying to fight us to me and Daniel got thrown out the club but all respect to Daniel Oakwitz dude I love that guy he's he he he's one of the guys from uh elite masters about uh aneurysm here we go hold up hold up him him and Chris Martinez I get along with I talked to oh Chris was only cool with me only because of the fact that I backed up Daniel other than that like I I never really talked to them uh like I said I've gone to Texas I trained with Jesus Almondaris and stuff like that and uh I remember because I in California I trained with Peter Peter lived Peter lived like two minutes from me his parents lived two minutes from me and uh I trained with Peter and um from there he made me go to he had me go to Texas and stuff and he tried to take me to jeans and Jesus said absolutely not he is not going there. And Peter's like why? He's like you know Mark's gonna try to hurt him and and I'm like and Steven so Sven's not going with you. So technically Jesus on dark another good guy. You know Protecting me from that.

Juan 1:06:01

Yeah. Like those two guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:03

Oh man, dude. Jesus, the way you saw him fight in fights is the way he was in practice, punching me in the face and everything. It's a fight, bro. And I'm like, I'm getting mad, but I know I can't do nothing about it because he's an actual boxer. So I was for that point I was cooked. I'm not gonna win that fight. I accepted defeat.

Juan 1:06:21

In the in the 2000 uh Olympics, he was a uh training partner. And uh I don't know what boxer they gave me. Boxers were sponsored by Jordan, and so I got some Jordan boxing shoes, and Jesus was like, you know, he boxes, and he was like, he couldn't believe it, couldn't believe it. So I gave them to him. He was so happy. He always tells me I still got them, I still got them. Some nice, cool, like US team USA Mike or Michael Jordan boxing shoes. Pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:48

Yeah, when I trained with him for 2013, uh World Championships for I think it was Puebla, he was training with his boxer. Uh I can't remember his name, but his name was something Diaz, but the nickname was Baby Bull. And trainer. And I was trading with him and his personal trainer like every single day. And those guys use Stairmaster like no other. Like that's all they did was Stairmaster. That's how I made Finn wait one time, the only time, and never again. Obviously.

Juan 1:07:18

How much you weigh?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:19

Don't worry about it. Enough for my wife to love me.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:26

Oh I like the answer. I like my answer.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

Hey, enough for my wife to love me. That's it. I I tell you this: you will never ever see me in another tackle no fight ever again. But if I'm with you hanging out at the bar, if you need some help, I'm always there.

Juan 1:07:41

We're good, we're good. I saw you at the at the at the I mean what TJ, we both saw you at that uh what was that fight called that they had with the next level?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

Oh yeah, was it next level? No, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:53

Was it called next level? Yeah, it was at um next gen next level. Next, yeah, next level or something. TKD.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

Next TKD.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:01

Yeah, yeah. That's the last time I saw you guys, yeah. I live that's Claremont. So I live like I literally live like 10 minutes from there.

Juan 1:08:08

Yeah, it was fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:09

Yeah, it was a good time. It was good to see everybody. You know what I mean? Damien won.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:15

Are you out of your mind?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:20

I can't stand it from my boy.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:21

I can't believe you just said that. You crazy. Which way did the other what did the ref's hand go? Which way did his hand go?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:29

Bro, all I saw was which way did his hand go? Man, it went the wrong way. That's the way it went. But you know what? Well respected, James. I love those guys. Respected, I always love James, man. I fought him one time and I didn't win, but it was two to one. But other than that, hey, I fought the who's who. I don't give a shit.

Juan 1:08:50

You did. You did. No, I that's one thing I remember. You like you had you had some bad luck when it came to draws. I do remember that. And like you you fought all those guys. Like, if you think about that, it's kind of cool for you. Like in that era, you fought all those those little racehorses, man. Those, you know, Finn 54 and 58, those guys were fast, and they were you you got them at the you got them at their height.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:12

You got I was like, first round.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:14

Who's the best 54, 58 in your generation, right? US, or the person you fought.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:20

Uh 54 genera and 58. You know what? I'm gonna go 58 Tim Thackeray. Really? He beat the shit uh well, we trained together a lot, and that for some reason that dude had my number. Like, I seen him beat the shit out of the VIS, put it that way. Easily. He's very like he's awkward and the timing's good. Um, him and then the thing is in California, like, it's such a sharp tank back then. Like, I would like even Luis Reyes, you know. I mean, I know he hasn't won nothing big, but that guy big brother means so much. I I I you know I gotta give respect to Luis Reyes. I love Louis Reyes, you know, he's a good guy, he has good timing. Slow as hell, but damn, he hit hard. Like, I don't know how he did it. But back then, that that was it, you know. Like, as it later went on, you know, you got your Logan Garrick's and stuff, and you got your David Kim's, you know, David's a good guy. I went to Columbia with him. Um, I remember I was in the same bracket as him, but they put all the juniors on one side and they kept all the seniors on the other side. So they saved your guys from me because I was ready to kill.

Juan 1:10:33

But like, I mean, you had Daniel Elkwitz, you had Jason Torres, you had again, like you just mentioned, Daniel, David, Daniel Kim. Daniel Kim, David Kim. David Kim, you know, you had the Tim Thackerays, you had you know, Luis Reyes, you had Elkowitz. I mean, you guys, there's some there's some people.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:51

It was hard back then, you know. Honestly, it was really hard back then. And uh, like yeah, my my luck of the draw, I always got the shitty draw. You know what I mean? My first world championship in 2009, I fought Philip Reyes, and we're in Denmark.

Juan 1:11:04

Oh, Denmark, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

You know, and I froze up. And I tell you this right now, like any open, you send me to open, I do great because I don't give a shit. I'm eating McDonald's the way before we end, and I'm fucking fighting Bantam. I'm not fighting Fly. You know, and I do great, and then I showed the World Championships. I actually try, eat healthy first round out. Just never worked out for me, but I'm okay with it, right? So, but it's okay because I don't Master Herb's a fan of me now. He loves me. I do. I have nothing but love, mad love. Yeah, I'm gonna show up your school. And next time I'm gonna show up, you know, we do this live on time, you know what I mean?

herb 1:11:42

Bring a bring a chest, bring a chest protector.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

First of all, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's go though. What?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:53

Dude, what you need you need that? I don't need it. Let's go.

herb 1:11:58

I didn't train with a chest protector. Juan knows I'm back back in the day. We just we kicked each other. What we we had to wear chest protectors later. But we um Peter Bardatos can can tell you the stories of how we did what we did. But the um no, I don't wear chest protectors unless we unless we have to, but we double, we double up when we train with them. I'm I'm always down for a spar, you know. I got nothing else to do. I'm old, man, but I I still spar.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:24

But I I know but I know I know about that left leg. You think I don't know about that?

herb 1:12:27

I I start well, I start with I'm up to five-year-olds now. I'm working my way back up. Five-year-old girls, I spar.

Juan 1:12:35

Well, that's okay because Sven's only as tall as a five-year-old, so it's okay. Well, I'll I'll pay money. But apparently, he don't want to tell you how much he weighs, so so enough for my wife to love me.

Coaching Roots And Training Room Culture

herb 1:12:49

There's nothing wrong with enjoying your life once you're done. You've done the dance at a very high level, and you should be proud of that accomplishment. And then it's important to remember it's the journey of the journey Nico, push that against Nico, push that all the way against the wall. This way she can't. My cat is trying to kill my guinea pig. Thank you. Oh no. The um it's important to remember that the journey of taekwondo, which we all had got a chance to enjoy, the journey was more important than the outcomes of medals, and I always always say that because that's really what mattered. And so it doesn't matter what your medals were and your other thing, but in certain circumstances, there are people that they got to remember um where they sat and why. But for the most part, that's the beauty of listening to you is listening to you talk about the joy you had in doing what you did at a high level and the willingness to be honest about what happened and during that journey. So we have many similar stories from team days and fighting and competing and fighting each other and fighting others, and the level we had, and there's one thing that's common. It sounds about all four of us on the phone. We did it for the right reason. We like to fight. We didn't do it for the warmups. When you do it for the warm-ups, it doesn't work out. You gotta do it because you like to fight. And the only the only thing stopping you from fighting the way you want to fight is the referee.

Juan 1:14:10

That's I think I think that's the problem right now. I mean, kind of what you said at the beginning, Fred, is uh I mean I've I I'll be the first one to protect all the athletes because I see them what they do every day to you to we we train these kids and they train hard, but the fight part of it is definitely it's not there, and I don't know if it's because they they can't do it, it's because the rules and the system doesn't allow it, and that's that's a shame because it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:40

It's it's it's a real it's a real shame, you know what I mean? Like I had gotten multiple kids on team, I've gotten a couple of people on senior team, you know. Um, you know, I had I had uh my girl Tiffany Koo, who was a no uh a junior and during her time was a there's nobody. You know what I mean? I was I was working at um Master Young and Chun school. Um and Master Young and Chun is Grandmaster Young and Chun is a great person, great person. Yeah, and he trusted me to to work with his school. I kind of got forced into it, but I ended up getting one of their athletes on team, Tiffany Coo. I got her on team. After that, I had moved schools and uh I inherited uh Darienne Morales and her brother.

Juan 1:15:19

Yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:20

And then uh Darianne got on team, obviously, because you know she was always great, and I finally got her brother to get to break through and finally make team twice with me. You know what I mean? Um good kids, good kids. Good kids, they train hard, and I tell you right now, they come from the slums. They I I would go straight to their house and weekends and train them in their garage for free. Just just to just to just to give them work. You know what I mean? Because they were great, they were great. They were they would work with me. If I had to get ready for a tournament, they'd work with me. Um when I was working at you know Bobby Morales? Yeah, yeah, I was I was training at Bobby Morales because uh Peter was there for a while, right? And Bobby Morales was there, Peter was there, Talisco was there, um, Samantha Leong was there, you know, we were all there, we were there. So this is when like remember that whole NRG team was going on?

Juan 1:16:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:14

So NRG was going on, and then like Master Morales really wanted to challenge that team, so he made the wrecking crew. So it was myself, Tavis Taylor, Samantha, and um we would all Tep Tavis and Taylor were fighting at that time, right? Yeah, they were fighting at that time. So uh, and then that's where like everything kind of grew for them.

Juan 1:16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:33

You know, that's where Samantha got really good. You know, I remember one time I had hit this chick so hard with a push kick to her face, I thought she was gonna go out. She ate that shit and got angry and pieced me up pretty quick right after that. I was scared because I was like, I got nervous. I was like, dude, I think I think I broke her jaw. Yeah, she's good. She was really good. She got really good. She just got caught up with the with the whole elite thing for a little bit, and you know, it kind of followed her a little bit, and you know, eventually she just kind of simmered out. You know, that team eventually died after, you know. We again we all aged out.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:11

You know, we all aged out, and it that was kind of a wrap from there. You know, the one regret I do have is I never got to go train at your school because I know Tony Graf was always trying to get me to go there. He's like, Sweat, why don't you come train here? I'm like, I'm not gonna let you pick me up.

Juan 1:17:25

Tell these guys what your mom told you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:27

Okay, check it out. So, and like I can't remember, it was like Nashals in San Antonio, Texas, and I will or I believe so. My mom was telling me a story that uh she's oh back in the day, I had went to Nationals, I had talked to this Hispanic guy, his name was I think Juan Juan something, and I'm like, Juan Moreno, and she goes, yeah. She goes, he was just starting Peak performance, and um I was we were talking, and you know, he was saying that he would take you in, you can live with him, and you can work with him, and he'll work with you. And uh yeah, but your dad said no. And I was like, oh shit, like I could have been I could have been the starter of Peak. I would have been TJ's captain, you know what I mean? I would have been I would have been the guy. But you know what? You know what? It's all good. I I appreciate my journey. You know, Master Via has given me everything I needed, and um, I have had a lot of support on the way, even from uh Givens, you know, stuff like that. Um, Master Cruz and stuff. I had a lot of support uh after I beat, you know, after I after I won my fight with Elkowitz, that's when I first had my first interaction with Master Juan Moreno. And um, you know, it's kind of kind of got my name out there a little bit, you know, and everyone kind of knew how crazy I was after that. Again, I'm I'm I I'm not here to win, I'm just here just to ruin your day.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:51

That's what I'm here for.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:52

I my last US Open, like I made it to my third fight, and Damian comes in and he goes, What's up? Where you at? I'm like, I'm on my third fight. Where are you at? He goes, I'm out. I said, Well, shit, man, I need to get out of here. Like, I need to go to the fucking board. I'm bored as fuck. I'm not used to this. Like, I need to get up out of here. You know what I mean? But which is weird, right? Most likely were like, yo, focus, get your ass in. You need to fucking try to get metal. I my first thing I want to do was get out and party. Like, I was out, bro. I was over it. I was all beat up. But you know what, man? I enjoyed my journey. I had a good time. I met great people like you guys, and you know, I wouldn't take it back for anything.

Juan 1:19:29

The way it's supposed to be. That's the way it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:31

Yes, sir.

Juan 1:19:33

So we gotta get what's start wrapping this up, man. Come on, man. What do you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:39

You good? You got your five, your five minutes of favor. Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.

Shoutouts And Who Should Coach

SPEAKER_05 1:19:43

Oh man, okay. Before I start, I gotta give a couple of shoutouts. I want to say happy birthday to my friend Ziza. I didn't get to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:49

But um Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:51

Last week, last week, right? It was last week at the US Open. I want to say happy birthday to Ziza. You know what I mean? Um, honestly, I USA team needs to wake the hell up. They need to make my boy TJ uh part of that coaching staff get rid of Landon. I'm sorry, no hard feelings. If you take it the heart, uh if you take it a heart, not my fucking fault. I really don't care. Um, Nikki Oliver, love you to death, but you gotta go to. We need to get someone else. I don't mind women coaching, I'm not against it, but they need to like they need to shake this ship shit up. You know what I mean? It don't make no sense. Make it make sense. Sabrina Celine? She can coach. Sabrina, you know what? That that lady is so quiet, she's always been so quiet, but she knows what she's doing.

Juan 1:20:38

That's right. Mariana from Marina from uh Connecticut, Melvie's mom.

unknown 1:20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:44

She's my number one.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:45

There's a lot of people. You know, if they're gonna bring a foreign coach over, you know who should they bring? Carla Baco. That is the best coach I think I know right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:53

You're naming people with too much like actual Taekwondo sense and knowledge and and and knows how to treat athletes and and actually help programs. You know, nobody that can help will ever be put in that room.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:02

So whoever's if the USA's that desperate, bring me on the staff. I'll save this fucking. I'll save this fucking country. Let's go. I'll do this shit. If I have to do it. I'll scroll you. Uh uh, yeah, uh-uh. Yeah, you're right. I'm not gonna make it on the team. If you're black, you're not making it. You're the dark, you're the dark. Hey, yeah, I'm you know, okay, so I'm half black, half Amerindian. So, but either way.

Juan 1:21:34

Amerindian?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:35

Uh the natives of the Amazon. That's why I like I look like this as handsome, you know what I mean? Hey, you know what? Actually, one more thing I want to bring up. Master Herb, I asked Master uh Moreno to put a background of Samahayak, but he puts a man in the background. I don't even know who that dude is.

herb 1:21:53

That's uh that's Steve McNally, but that no, you don't know who that is.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:00

I I never looked at anyone so ugly before. That's TJ. That's TJ.

herb 1:22:05

Al Capone, bro. That's a light-skinned TJ.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:08

I want to see some Hayek. I don't want to look at men, dude. I want to look at some of my tell them.

Juan 1:22:13

First of all, that's Al Capone. That's gangster right there. That's that's the real deal. Second of all, I told you you can't tell my hype because that's my girl back in the day. So I can't let you try to sneak up on that. Hey, you know what? You know what? You and I can fight over it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:25

Karate combat. See me, see me there. I'll do I'll get you in karate combat. Let's go. Hey, tell them to sign the fight. Hey, I don't hard feelings, coach. I love you after the fight, but I'm gonna have to put you to sleep.

Juan 1:22:37

First of all, all I'll do is move around for about 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:40

You'll be like, you hey, you're you're right, but for those 15 seconds, you better make sure I miss.

Juan 1:22:46

You ain't hit nothing.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:48

You won't hit nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:50

Oh man, you know what? I just got chased.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:52

You might have to trade for one more. You might have to trade for one more, my boy. Hey, you know what? Hey, you know what? You know what? Here's the crazy part. I'm gonna do it, and TJ's gonna coach me while I beat you.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:02

That way they can prove it that there's a true thing. He done called out Grandmaster, he done called out the great Bambino. Now I gotta coach you against these two.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

Yes, hey, dude. Hey, get your spot on the team, bro. Get your spot on the team. I know about the ticket, but shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:17

Hey, hey, make results here. Let's go. No excuses. Hey, no excuses. We gotta get more than 15 seconds, though, my boy. I need about 45. Give me 45. I got something to work with. Well, fuck it. Let me walk around the block for a couple minutes.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:34

Also, I gotta stop drinking this fucking beer, dude. I've been on this shit. I'm on like by 6'1. It's good for you. It is, dude. You know it is. And when you have you guys come to California, hit me up, dude.

Juan 1:23:48

Okay, what kind of beer are you drinking?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:50

I got Corona right now. You didn't recognize that bottle. That's a corona.

Juan 1:23:55

I did see it. Yeah, I guess you're right.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:56

Hey, my wife's Mexican, dude. I gotta fucking support. Viva La Rasa.

Juan 1:24:03

Some Victoria or some Pacifico or some Indio.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:06

Ah, Pacifico. No, it's like watered down. But uh Victoria, yes.

Juan 1:24:10

Yeah, Victoria's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:11

Next time I come to Miami, next time I come. If I don't think David's getting any more fights with Karate Combat, so I might have to just buy my own ticket and come out and hang out.

Juan 1:24:20

Always welcome. Heck yeah, man. Come on, Miami's the spot right now. Come on.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:24

Let's do it. I'm always down. And Master Herb, hey, I'm always up north, so I might have to just come see you. Let me know.

herb 1:24:29

Let me know next time you're up. I'll take you out to dinner. I got a nice Peruvian place in Mountain View.

Juan 1:24:34

I'm gonna be I told you I'm gonna be there the 27, 28th. I'm gonna be up there at James How's I'm gonna bring my my daughter. So yeah. Hey, you know what? Tell James How if he wants to run it back? I'm here. This guy's challenging everybody. You anybody else you want to run it back with? You want me to get over there?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:51

Oh no, this the list goes on. The list goes on. I know where Dimitri lives, so I just get him in his sleep. I got a key to his house. I'll catch his ass in East LA. And then we'll have tequila after.

Juan 1:25:04

Who drinks more tequila? You or him?

SPEAKER_05 1:25:06

Uh he does, dude. I'm a rum guy. I'm a rum guy. Oh, okay. Rum rum rum all day, I got him. But tequila, man, I've it's beating me really bad. Like to the fact where I call mercy.

Juan 1:25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:20

Yeah, yeah. Him and him and his brother could put it down. His dad could put it down.

Juan 1:25:25

It's in their blood, bro. It's in their blood. They can do that stuff, man. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:28

Yeah. I figured if I got myself a Latina, it would rub off on me, but that's I just it didn't help.

Juan 1:25:34

She's from she's from Mexico or from the United States.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:37

She's from the United States, but her parents from Mexico, but like, we got the one Mexican wife that don't drink at all. So it's like it sucks. So I'm like, I'm training myself. You know what I mean? But hey, whenever you guys are in Southern California, you guys are more than welcome. Come see me. I'll barbecue with you guys. We'll all hang out. If I come up north again, Master Herb, I'll come see you.

Beer Talk And Final Goodbye

herb 1:25:56

Let me know, sir. I'll be here. Yes, sir. This has been the warehouse 15, I think. Uncut, definitely uncut. I'm about to put an explicit warning on this one. We are out. Thank you, gentlemen. Peace. Peace. All right, I'll get this on.