Olympic Hopefuls And The Chancleta Awards

Eight years of flat results is not a slump, it’s a signal. We start with the adrenaline of a collegiate taekwondo tournament and quickly get to the bigger question: what are we building in the U.S. right now, and why doesn’t it reliably translate to medals and deep runs at World Taekwondo events?

We react to the stats making the rounds, talk about “pound for pound” comparisons, and draw a hard line between a rare phenom and sustained competitive excellence. That turns into a blunt look at national team identity, coaching presence, and the culture shift where early losses get framed as “good experience.” We don’t say it to be harsh, we say it because standards shape outcomes, and the rest of the world can see what we tolerate.

From there we get practical: development pipelines, selection systems that keep changing, and why fundamentals still win. Footwork, distance, timing, and clean technique matter more than trendy drills, especially when electronic scoring can push athletes toward habits that look wrong but score. We also preview the Pan American Championships, what different countries have to prove, and why recent rule tweaks hand even more control back to referees at the worst possible moments.

If you care about Olympic taekwondo, athlete development, and building a program that’s more than highlights, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a coach or teammate, and leave a review with one change you’d make to fix the pipeline.

Transcript

Cold Open And Theme Verse

SPEAKER_05 0:14

Olympian cold moon on their shields. Royal Brotherhood Knights of the Templar walking through the field. Down in the black road where the red dust turns, they heard the bad name and the warning burned bad taekwondo at the edge of the vale. Hold the line with iron in the trail. Call to the dark side, call for the storm. Don't turn it back. Now they were the fall. Step by step, the shadow gave way. The fate of the night broke way. Royal Brotherhood hold the line. Royal Brotherhood crossed that line. Royal Brotherhood. Bring the line hold the line.

herb 1:11

Say it's not so. Yes, it is so. It's

Welcome Back To Warehouse 15

herb 1:15

time again for the one, the only, the thread, the chocolate right there. That's half of it. That's the uh that's the slipper. Don't make me take it out. Sorry, not sorry. It's the warehouse 15 back in the house because it's Monday. What's up, gentlemen?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

What's up, what's up, what's up? How are you?

Collegiate Taekwondo Chaos And Spirit

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Um I uh man, I'm gonna tell you guys I went to this collegiate tournament this weekend. Let me tell you, it was cuts and glory in there. I've never heard so much screaming in my life. You got white outside kicking each other, knocking on the radio. The crowd's going crazy. I mean, it was insane. But shout out to those guys. I think overall they had a lot of participants. Tournament for what it was ran pretty well. Um but I gotta spend a lot of time watching the fight. Straight up.

herb 2:06

You say guts and glory.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Guts and glory.

herb 2:10

Blades of glory, blades of glory.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

I'm watching Green Bells battle it out for the love of their colleges. I mean it was nothing.

Juan 2:18

They do college cheers and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yes, all of it. Flags.

herb 2:25

It was my boys for college. Do they have a Taekwondo program and now where they have representative? I'm gonna have to go rebuild that for them. I'm gonna have to help them rebuild the great glory of the big red, my friend.

Juan 2:38

They have an Ivy League uh uh you know collegiate program, so I'm sure they do to some. Yeah, they're really I will say this. I was talking to a guy this weekend and he was saying that they have like over 900 people or 900 people, and that's every from white to black belt, the forms, the tag team fighting, the fighting. Do they have breaking?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

I don't know. I know they had three days worth. I think everyone tagged me while it's Sunday.

Juan 3:03

But those people really get into it. I mean, there's a lot of collegiate spirits, you know, on the West Coast, East Coast, and down in Texas, they have a big you know, Texas ANM has a big program, so it's uh it's cool to see that uh the action and the the enthusiasm is there. I don't know, like how is the black belt level? Like we've we've talked before about the collegiate level, universities and stuff, the world university games and stuff. How was how was that?

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah, I mean I only can compare it to like when when I was competing with the people. I think the black belt level right there was super deep and you had a lot of competition. Um there was a few standouts, but mostly for me it just lost that, you know. Yeah, a couple good one good person, everyone else is just like I said, there for super spirit kind of sort of, but it was uh it was a long it was a long sense. But like also like I think I got drawn into all the it was just crazy. Like I've said I'm watching yellow belt 19 year olds go for it all, you know what I mean, down to the last second, jumping axe kicks, crane kicks, spider kicks, they go about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

They go back to the college, they go back to the college and be like, yo, I want the national championship, and then they tell their boy they tell their boy to do and then I can watch his video. He jumped up and freaking kicked him.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Like second the guy without around my kind of showing off a little bit. He hit him with the most awkward testing kick in the face. It goes three three, he ends up winning. Two seconds later, he turns it out, he's like and the whole crowd's like screaming. I'm over there like it was nuts, man. It was nuts.

Juan 4:44

That's cool. I was in uh go ahead, go ahead. No, I was in uh in Michigan. So uh I was over there with Coach Brad, and some of the guys from Canada came down. My man Mark was there, he's always a great supporter. I mean, he loves you, TJ, and I know you've been up to his place, but he's got some good young kids. And we actually, it was um, yeah, I told some stories about you know the junior worlds and stuff like that, and how good they were and how impressed I was. But you know, I was and I I told him how I I said, you know, on this podcast that I said we're not gonna catch them, you know. It's you know, a lot of those countries are just too good. This I said, but that's our challenge, right? That's our mountain, that's our our thing where there's gotta be a way, you know, we can't just keep doing things we're doing, expect to catch them. We have to do something different, something unique, something special, something, you know, within our identity. I go, that's the way we have to do it. Because if if I if I I know I said that, but if I believed that, then I wouldn't coach anymore. I really wouldn't coach. I would be like, there's no need. I always believe there's a chance. I mean, is it gonna be easy? Absolutely not. So it was cool to talk to them and it had a pretty good group, pretty, pretty live group. But young, you were in you were in Dallas, and then you were good at the end.

Performance Anxiety From The Sidelines

herb 5:57

I was in Dallas at the MLS Cup, and you know, interesting time because it I've been writing this thing about trying to write a strategic book, which is crazy hard, right? Because strategy is so amorphous and so um challenging. So I have this thing where I can record my thoughts and then I can it'll transcribe them for me, but it'll also give me a synopsis. So I put them together. Um, and and I was thinking about this because I was in Dallas at this event. And so my son's team's pretty good, and you know, they're playing the best teams in the country and played like the second best team from last year that took the uh silver at the at the cup, right? And so they play that team and beat them 6-1. Beat them 6-1. They lose to two other teams in one in the last 30 seconds, and then they're beating the other team by three points, and end up letting them tie, and then they're losing with 30 seconds left, and they tie it up. So they gotta go to penalty kicks. So they go to penalty kicks. My son scores his, his friend scores his, but the three other guys who normally would bury it choke over the top of the bar, hit the bar, whatever, whatever. And the ref. So it was an interesting lesson in performance anxiety, performance, and playing against the best guys doing well, and then playing against the worst guys and doing worse. So um I wrote about I'm gonna I wrote about it. I wrote this other thing, and I'm gonna send you guys a copy. Um, because it's life stories and then what I've learned from them. And this is probably not being part of it. But I I still working on this component, which I'll get back to you guys on. But then I was supposed to go to, and I have to apologize, supposed to go to Minnesota, but my plane got bamboozled, and so I couldn't go. Um, and then it just the pl I couldn't work out the plane thing. So I missed a seminar I was gonna teach in Minnesota, so I owe the guy a thing. But I'll be up at the Mudo seminar in Sacramento this weekend to um watch them test and then hand out the belts and the awards in Sacramento. Um but it's not I gotta drink Yeah, that big school. Then I gotta go down to um LA Galaxy. My son's playing the LA Galaxy this weekend, so yeah, kind of busy, but it was interesting. It it reminded me of, you know, I saw our brother James Viasana, and arguably in my mind, one of the best taekwondo fighters I knew because he saw what was possible in taekwondo and had no fear in doing it. So he had what I call the Marky Lopez kind of thing. Lopez Marquis knew what was capable and enjoyed doing it and watching it work because people thought it you shouldn't do it. James Villasana was that fighter, only a nicer guy. Viasana is, in my opinion, one of my favorite fighters to watch because he was that guy that was like you'd watch him, they'd say, Hey, this kid's pretty good. You go out and watch him, and then he would do something to start that was just ridiculous, right? Um, and we watched him fight Patrice Remarque and beat him. We watched him beat a bunch of guys, and he was just, you know, so we had a great lunch, him, his wife and I. Your name came up a lot. We talked about you and and uh all the great times that we had together, but I wanted to say hi to hi to you from him. Just he hasn't changed. Jaime is still the purest thing, the purest thing in the world. He reminds me of my son when it comes to his demeanor, the way he carries himself and the way he sees the world. Never an unkind word comes out of his mouth about anyone, anywhere, anything. Like you. You know, I'm work, I'm a work in progress, and I want to remind

Website Questions And Podcast Chatbot

herb 9:48

everybody. We're gonna put it up on the website. If you have any questions for me, go to the Grand Master of Disaster, and you can ask the Grandmaster of Disaster what he thinks. And then he will give you an honest assessment, very honest, about what he feels about life, love, and liberty. Um, and then on a serious note, we have a we have a podcast, we have a chat bot that you can chat to from the warehouse 15. I'm gonna get my brothers to give me some information. You can ask our chatbot, the sorry not sorry chatbot, anything you want to ask about anything about life, taekwondo, love, liberty. But don't forget to go to the website and get your warehouse.

TSA Stories And Travel Whiplash

Juan 10:27

I had a gentleman ask me today, so I sent him the the link. Uh he DM'd me. Hey, just side note, I had to go through Chicago then to Muskegan, Wisconsin uh, Michigan. And when I was coming home from Muskegan, Miskegan, Chicago, Chicago to Miami, Muskegan's airport is about as big as my my house. And they got, I counted, eight TSA people, and those jokers ain't are serious. They patted every everybody down, they opened up everybody's luggage. I was cracking up because I had TSA touchless, right? So I just I don't take off my jacket, I'll take my shoes, and that lady was mad. She was angry at me just because I didn't have to. And so I know like I have a I have one necklace that I wear all the time when I travel, and I it they always pet me down. So I go through and I take it up, and the gentleman's like, You're okay. And there was a couple of African-American ladies I was talking to, they were super nice, but everybody else in that place, I I'm not lying. They had one one lane. There was 12 people on my plane, and these people were serious about their jobs, bro. Pretty funny. Pretty funny. Well, was this after the shooting? This was after the shooting, because the shooting was on no the shooting was on Sunday or Saturday. I don't know, it's so commonplace it's hard to know. Yeah, it's kind of weird.

WT Stats And The U.S. Flatline

Juan 11:51

Hey, I I I think I want to talk about the the panels that are coming up. I mean, we got a little time. We got three weeks before two weeks, three weeks? Two gonna be here fast. No, two weeks. Two weeks. Some we'll talk about that. But um uh what do you think about these WT facts guys? Man, they they came out actually the same kind of timing as us with the uh with our podcast, man. Don Lewis, man, he put out some statistics about how we flatlined in the last eight years, and he put some pretty good, not pretty good, they're they're they're their data, right? It's just kind of numbers. And man, he uh, you know, in their podcast, I give them a shout out because they they they just use an analogy of like you know, first world, second world, third world taekwondo, you know, countries, and they they coined us as a third world taekwondo comp country.

herb 12:42

And I was kind of like that's a compliment. We're a fourth world, we're we're under the third world. We our perfor based so he did an interesting assessment, right? Which he did when we were talking to him. It's not about our performance. What you need to look at is the size of our country, take that as one factor, the wealth factor, take that as another factor, take the size of the taekwondo population, that's another factor, and then compare it to similarly sized so pound for pound. I don't know how many people live in Brazil. That's pretty much what he was talking about. And that's it. At the end of the day, Brazil, pound for pound, is a powerhouse.

Juan 13:22

Yeah. Well, because I think they they they actually said it was two-thirds the size of America as far as the population. Right. So it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

It's crazy, it's crazy when you see it on like graphs like that. Like I said, you know, we were on this last episode just kind of talking about like from what we see from a non-stats, you know, just like from looking from the outside or being in the middle and watching, and just then you see it on paper and you see it on graphs, and then I think back you saying, Can we ever change that? What are we doing to to to catch up? And I don't know. Last time, last time you said it, I was kind of like, ah, there's gotta be something. But like I I know you said, you know, you believe in it, but like it's dude, we've been flat for a long time. We've made no what does that say?

Juan 14:05

What does that say about like this this shot in the arm that we are supposed to get? Matter of fact, I I'll I'll put it out there to you, TJ. I mean, just I mean, just off the top of my head, without the few outliers and the anomalies, you know, of of of athletes in and Anastasia and and CJ, like what where are we? I mean, and I and I want to be careful because I'm not one of these guys that are gonna say in my day it was better, blah, blah, blah. But what I can say is there's been these these eras where people fought well, where there's people competed well, where people looked at you and said, Hey man, this is not this is not an easy out right now. This is gonna be a tough, this American team is tough. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I think that's what that's where we're at right now with Brazil. Brazil doesn't have a bunch of like, you know, 50% of our people get on the stand. But if you look at our 54 or 58 or 63 or 68, you're like, these guys are tough outs. These guys, these guys fight with passion, with intelligence, with experience. They they fight tough. Are they all gonna win? No. But either does the Koreans or either the Iranians, but you know when you get Iranian and you're on your draw, you're like, oh my god, same thing with the Russians, same thing with you know other countries. Why is that though?

SPEAKER_02 15:18

You see Iran, why is that?

herb 15:19

But that's it. But Iran, but hold on a second. Iran, so you and not to be not to diminish what coach is saying, because coach, what you're saying is the first thing which is really important to understand, is there's a difference between a lightning and a bottle which can't be recreated, or an anomaly, or a shooting star. Call them what you want, a phenom. And then there's a difference between sustained competitive excellence. Iran is sustained competitive excellence, so they started back in the day and they've continued their path. Go ahead.

Juan 15:51

You're 100% right. It is so funny because I'm not gonna say the name, but I was reading in and and one of Mr. Lewis's posts, a former board member said, What's the definition of competitive sustained competitive excellence?

herb 16:05

You need a job.

Juan 16:06

He was a former former board member. I was kind of like, What what what are you saying? So it's funny that you say that about Iran. Yeah, I know that's just ridiculous. But anyway, you're right, young. That's Iran has you know sustained competitive excellence, and that's where I was going. If if if if a country you just look at them and say, Man, these guys are competing well, they're doing all these things well and correctly, then you can you can actually understand if they don't get a medal.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

But people don't even identify us as a U.S. national team when they show up, they identify those guys as the academy and everybody else that shows up with them. You understand? I don't like that. But am I lying?

Juan 16:43

No, you're not at all. I pointed that out like a couple years ago. I was like, this is weird. That's horrible. That's that's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

And that's that's kind of the boat we fall into. And then you got again uninspired coaches coaching people that they don't necessarily coach. That's how we end up with coaches in a chair that probably shouldn't be there because the ones that should be there are, you know, in New Jersey and New York teaching seminars while the world championships are going on. Or, you know, making a quick buck with 19 people in a room when our whole national team is out at the world championships competing. I don't respect it was like, I don't know. I don't know. But I'm like, like, I can't respect that. I don't know. I don't care if he cares if I get respect. I don't care if these guys or whoever's listening care if I respect it. Like, I can't find a respect level and you know, we're making a quick buck while our team's out there competing. That just shows our nation that we are not united. Our coaches and leaders don't care. And what are we supposed to do? You know, what we get is what we get. You got the coaches that go out there with their students and they give it a good run and they get a little deep into the tournament and show a little bit of health and wealth because they've been working with their guys and are next to them. But what about everybody else? What about the ones that that that need that extra support, that need that person in the sense, that needs to feel like their team USA? And you best have believed the rest of the world sees that. When none of these other coaches look around and they don't see our big dog national teams there, they they know. When these and again, I'm not stupid, when these referees see it, when when the head table people see it, you don't think we lose some ground when it comes to that? I'm just I I I've come from an era where it did matter, and I think I had a little bit of a shield on my back because of who who was sitting in my chair, and the people that are sitting in my chair and the and the people within the organization. You can't you you can't get that, not sitting over the people that are supposed to be helping these kids develop to the next level and see into the next level. They're they're absent, they're not there, and they clearly don't care.

Juan 18:33

Yeah, I mean, I was waiting. I thought he was gonna jump in. It's again, I I know we're kind of beating a dead horse here because we talked about this a little bit last time, but yeah, it's just again, going back to those numbers, you know. When I looked at those numbers, and and like you said, TJ, I think sometimes intuitively we kind of have a good pulse on what's going on, and then when you when it's backed up by the all this by all that data makes you kind of go, wow. And like you said, when you see it there for eight years and you see like these little blips, you know. Eight years, that's not good. That's not good. I mean, and and even I think he, you know, the actually his wife said something like, you know, some people get if they get to the quarterfinals and it's like quarterfinals is good, and that's true. I know, you know, we we debate and we, you know, Grandmaster disaster always gives a hard time about that. But listen, in a world championship, if you lose your fourth match, it's tough, you know, in the quarterfinal match, but at least you're showing this is my point where you can say, Wow, this program is pretty good. I meant I mentioned Uzbekistan junior boys. I said they got five medals and three quarterfinals. I believe it was three quarterfinals. That's pretty deep.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

When you're looking, you're looking across the board, you're going, Wow, I mean, I I said in I just don't think I I think the number was 11. I don't think our juniors should be losing 11 first map round matches.

Stop Celebrating Mediocrity

herb 19:49

Well, let me let me ask you let me ask you a question. And so this is like I've been telling you, I've been let me go back to that 11 round. Okay, TJ. Sorry, go ahead. So, and this is just really a simple question. And I've been thinking a lot about this in in in context of competition and and and I've given up on taekwondo, right? I don't watch it, I don't really care about it. I I I I teach what I think. Unfortunately, I fall into that category now of guys back when we were coming up that talked about teaching martial art rather than taekwondo. And so I find myself kind of in that world of, and I don't teach martial art, I teach taekwondo, real taekwondo. Um with that said, if you, Coach Moreno, you, not a hypothetical you or DJ, if you went to a tournament and you came home after losing your first or second or even third match in a tournament where there were six or seven matches possible, would you consider that a success? Would you tell anybody about it? Can you remember ever coming home from a tournament? I don't think actually it happened to you that much either of you. That didn't happen to me. It happened to me once ever. Ever, ever. And I didn't come home and tell anybody about it. I didn't tell anybody I even went to the damn thing because I was so embarrassed.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

When you come home and before ranking points, though, before ranking points, the only thing you can do is win.

herb 21:20

But my point, but my point is really simple. When you celebrate, when you celebrate mediocrity, that's your standard. When you and this is the thing I and I'll talk about my son's team. When they lose, there are certain kids on a team that go out and hang out and joke around as soon as the match is over. They're shaking the hand of the other guy, they're joking, they're tapping each other. Dude, that's not you or me. That was never you and me. You you we we begrudgingly do whatever we had to do and then go sit in a corner and commiserate. That's a champion's soul. You don't have to like it or you don't have to like what I'm saying, you don't have to care what I'm saying. But I can tell you this that's how you win. The other way is how you participate, and it's called we've always talked about this. There are guys that just show up for the warm-up. They show up for the warm-up. And I mean the warm-up of the training. The warm-ups.

Juan 22:12

That's too bad because they don't even have warm-ups anymore.

herb 22:14

Yeah. Well, that's unfortunate too.

Juan 22:16

So I'm going to say this and I'm going to I'm going to take some blame because I had a boy that was one of those first-round losses. Now it's funny because I told him this. I told the people this weekend. I said, I I can give you a bunch of excuses. Here's my excuses for the kid. He's 14. He's not even 15 yet. This tournament's 15 and 7. He's 14 years old and he made the team. He fought the he went there early. He fought the last day of the competition, first match of the last day, which is probably not pretty good for a kid that's never anybody. It's a six day of competition. He lost too much weight. He lost turn my mic down a little bit. All right, hello. Sorry, is that okay? Is that better? He lost he lost too much weight. He's a 51 kilo guy. He's never been more than 0.2 under and he was 1.2 kilos under. He lost too much weight because he wasn't eating and he wasn't training and because he was there. He this is his fourth tournament. He went to the uh Pan Am's in Mexico. He went to the Canadian Open and he went to uh Croatia. So the kid's been to three tournaments in his life, two which are right next door to each other. So it doesn't almost even count. And four, he's never been coached by anybody outside of me, TJ, and my wife. So he has never hurt anybody. So those are the excuses, right? And they're probably all pretty valid. But I told him and I told my team and I told the people this weekend, I said, nope, I'm not going to be a victim. This kid was winning the first round, and he let it go and lost by a point or whatever at the end of the first round. In the second round, he was winning. I'm sorry, he was losing. He caught up, took the lead, and gave the lead back. So he lost two rounds to none. Close match. If you watch the match, you're like, well, good fight, but not a good fight because we didn't close it out and we practice that stuff. We talk about that stuff. And even though he's 14, even though it's his fourth tournament, it's not an excuse. I'm not going to be a victim. We got to windows. And I think it's that kind of mentality. And you know what? That boy came, he he fought on Friday. He got home on Saturday. He was at training Monday. Didn't wasn't looking for us just back to training on Monday. And I love that for him. I love that he's that young of a kid, good smile, wasn't moping, wasn't like, yeah, look at me. Wasn't wearing 50 other warmups and uniforms and telling stories. Nope. He's just another kid in the gym, you know, trying to trying to change that. And hopefully in the future he can make a team. We don't know. But I guess my point is, you know, listen, I was part of one of that losses. But like, I'm not celebrating it, young. You're you're absolutely right. I could say, man, very good job. You know, you you competed well. He did. I'm not gonna talk about that. I'm not gonna make a big deal about that. Our private conversations between me and him were between me and him and his family, but it's not acceptable. We didn't go there to it. Of course, you're supposed to do your best. I mean, that's that should go without saying. I'm not gonna, you know, celebrate that. Oh, you did your best. Everybody, no, lost, we didn't get it done, and we gotta take responsibility for that. That's I think how you that's the maybe some of the first steps. Um and like you said, I think we celebrate all these things. And I mean, do we need to? I just say less.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

We celebrate, we celebrate everything these days, though. Everything needs to be celebrated and talked about, and everybody gave it a, and I'm not talking about this to kids, I'm just talking about a general restaurant. Everyone gave it a good fight, everyone's got a 15-second clip to post, everybody's got a a war story to

Ranking Points And Excuse Culture

SPEAKER_02 26:08

tell. And it's it, I blame a little bit of on social media, but like I said, I think I think when it when all these ranking points got I don't want to say introduced because I like that it's a we have a ranked system. It's not that the ranked system is what bugs me, it's it's what it kind of has bought out of our sport. You know what I mean? We're we're we're going to tournaments, winning one match, losing a second match, and we're celebrating because we're in the semifinals, or we're, you know, we're in a small, like uh a big division, we lose our first or second match, and the one that kills me the most, and I'm gonna go the opposite of this one. When people tell me that they lost to the the put the eventual gold medalists, I don't care. That makes me when I was an athlete, that made me feel worse. I felt so much worse than I was like, it should have been you.

herb 26:52

Hold on, hold on a second. Do you know how many guys I've met that were Olympic Olympic hopefuls? And they they're Olympic hopefuls because they hope to go to the Olympics. My second favorite one is I they I could have beat, but I didn't make it to get to fight the Olympian or the Olympic whatever. And I'm like, that's the wish I could but I I'm gonna tell you both something, just so you understand. And I don't I don't like to share this fact too easily. I could have been president of the United States, and and just so you understand, no, no, let me give you the rationale. The president in the United States and I both share a common background. Single parent family, first person in our family to be raised by women. Hold on, I'm not done. And I know I went the other way. So, and we both had a passion for sport. His was basketball, mine was taekwondo. We both graduated, first person in our family graduated high school and college. We both went to law school. We both were in politics. I took my journey and went this way. He took his journey and became president of the United States. So I could have been president of the United States, and maybe he could have been a basketball Olympian. By the way, I met that. Did I mention that I did meet a couple of presidents? So, you know, I am the best singer in this house at this moment who's a male Puerto Rican. That's it. Because I'm the only male in the house and I'm the only male Puerto Rican. So I should get a participation award. Kish, my Puerto Rican chancleta. Oh, yeah, no, the the No we need to edit all that out probably, but sorry, not sorry.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Yeah, that I think, but I I think that's what we come to, and I think we make a lot of reasons and excuses. I don't know. I I I've never had rough or like mean coaches who would like try to rip me apart or tell me how bad I was, but I had realistic coaches my whole life. I knew what was deemed successful and a good job and what wasn't. And back then, by said before the ranking points, it was either you win or you lose. Like we didn't even talk, and again, you know, you talk about a lot, but we didn't talk about second, we didn't talk about third.

herb 29:11

Yeah, but ask you won the tournament or you didn't win the tournament. You you were you were on teams where I had a team. Did I ever sugarcoat anything for you about your performance?

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Nah.

herb 29:21

I had some real conversations with you. Coach Moreno and I had real conversations with each other during our training.

Juan 29:27

So you're right. I mean, again, it's uh I I don't know what's in everyone's mind and stuff like that. And you know, when I yeah, I don't want to compare myself to other people, but yeah, I I definitely didn't feel worthy when I got a second or third. Not at all. And I certainly, you're right, TJ. I don't think I told anybody, you know. Matter of fact, and you know, I got in trouble at one up at uh at a Pan American where I got second. And it was it's a little controversial, but it whatever, I got second. And after I got off the stand, I as I was walking in the back in the holding area, I just as I'm taking off my tape and I just took off my medal and I kind of tossed it in the in the garbage can. And then you know, a day later, somebody came up to me and said, Hey, uh, where's your medal? I'm like, Oh, I don't know. And then they were upset because they thought I threw it away and this and that. I'm like, listen, it's my medal, I can do whatever I want. But I'm not saying that was the best sportsmanship, but it wasn't like I made a big deal about it. But my point is, you know, there was probably an air of people that winning was only the air was everything. And like you said, TJ, maybe with the point system now, people are like, well, at least they got 14 points, well, at least they got three points, at least they got two points, and you know, it's a step in the right direction because the ultimate goal is to qualify directly. So it's just a weird, it's a weird time, you know. And but again, I've always been, you know, I I say this all the time, I point with not with my finger, I point with my thumb. And like I said, I had a boy on this team and we didn't get it done. And we have to, we have to try to fix that. You know, I know uh on that WT, you know, Mr. Lewis, you know, was talking about the Brazil kids, how they flatlined and sometimes they went down. Well, first of all, we had you know less people this time, but you know, the truth of the matter is we have a little bit different of a model, you know, a little different of a model, and you know, we're not uh um but I I'm not saying that model is perfect because we I sat with my high performance director, and you know, we were saying, how much more of an investment do we need to continue our pipeline? You know, and I I think we need more. I mean, the the model that we're using right now is being we're being successful, but maybe we're just in a golden era, too. Maybe this has been a good five or six years, and you can't rely on that all the time. You can't hope you get those diamonds in the rough, you know. Even though we are investing, even though we are training and traveling with these kids.

herb 31:50

You you know that better than anybody else. So sport is cyclical. You can

Trials Systems And Pipeline Blockers

herb 31:55

have the best and have the best sustained competitive excellence program, and and then somebody usurps you. That's just reality. Now, the that's not the problem. The problem, the the question is this we haven't even gotten it. You haven't even gotten it. But let's say you were there. How quickly do you rebound and retool? Because once you're the best, there's a target on your back. Everybody's watching your tape, everybody's doing this, they're coming to beat you. So you've got to reinvent yourself continuously. When is you're the young and up-and-coming person, you don't have to. So that's gonna be the question. And that's a question for Brazil and anybody else in the world. It's one thing, yeah, to show up and and and dominate, but it's another thing to continue. And then when that time does come, which it will come, how do you rebound from it?

SPEAKER_02 32:43

I agree. I think um when we talk about going back to that whole like sustained excellence thing and what you were just saying, our team trials have got to the point of being drought-like and dead. No one who shouldn't win, should win, does like loses. Like, there's no second place or third place contender.

herb 33:03

There was that, but that was back in the day, too. You had the Olympic training center with Han wan, Mafia Lee, and the the Yogi Yogi Kim, dude. It was but you're saying that that's they had you knew who was gonna win because Han Wan had the Korean reps cheating, and and that was the reality. And and that's rich Richard An, not the best heavyweight in the world, would get his ass beat and still walk through the thing because Han Wan was Korean and had the Korean hookup because he'd buy guys dinners. So it's not the first thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

I guess I would say I guess I guess I would say at least they had to cheat for the other people to win, yeah, yeah, or to keep the person winning. That means there's some kind of competition that they're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, but they're cheating, they're cheating.

herb 33:47

Yeah, but they're cheating now, TJ. All they're doing is Korea's Koreans invented it. It's called pruning the tree. And talk to Capner about it. So, what it is now is they figured it out. They said, forget about it. We're not gonna cheat during the tournament. We're good, and when they used to cheat, they cheat early in the tournament. They take out the first place guy early against somebody who didn't matter. Now, what they're doing is we're gonna game the system, which they tried to do in the past, before the tournament. You don't even get to show up, right? When Juan was fighting Coach Moreno, they they would do him during the tournament and not against a random guy, they do him against the best guy. If they were smarter, they would have done it against a Sean Durham or some other guy like that, rather than do it with a with a with another guy.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

I I guess what I'm saying is compared to like uh let's say Brazil and their current pipeline of people, just from what I know and what I see and what I hear from the results and people winning, there's some times that your big guy, big guys get upset or they have a close match or they lose. I'm saying in the U United States of America, I don't even think that's possible. Obviously, what you just said in the pruning the tree, uh, I think Don Lewis was talking about on their podcast. We've changed what it means to get to team trials and make the national team like eight times in the last eight years. It's always something different. It's always, it's always you gotta do this. So it's always, well, if you know you got a medal here and a medal here, then you don't gotta fight this person, and then that division is locked down, so there's no second place person, they're fighting another division. And I mean, that's part of the problem. Are we and again? I don't believe as an athlete, and again, I probably went through the roughest era in '68 when I was competing, because we would have guys that would lose first round in nationals, and they would get a wild card to team trials because the organizational people thought they were good. And me as an athlete, I couldn't even lie to you. When they lose lost first round in nationals, I'm like, damn, that probably wasn't supposed to happen. But the system kind of condoned it so that there was more competition and not less competition.

herb 35:41

Can I tell you it was never Yeah, but can I tell you why I won? I didn't win because I was good at Taekwondo. They made it so hard for me to get out of this country because they cheated so much when I was trying to get out of the country, just like Coach Moreno. So they did us, they did me a favor, they did him a favor, they did Arlene Lamus a favor. They made it so hard for us to make the U.S. team by the time we got to the national team. When we fought internationally, I was like, dude, this is kind of fair, with the exception of Korea, right? Like, you knew what was gonna happen with Korea, they were gonna cheat. But with the rest of it, it was like you fight a regular country, it's like, okay, at least, you know, I gotta I I did well internationally because to get out of the country was so hard. So they did me a favor. But you know, listen, to say they don't cheat, they're just getting smarter about their cheating. And one of the reasons is they got one of the best, one of the people that benefited it from the most as their COO. Right? That guy, he shouldn't have been on the team. He got he got beat by Mark Isbester. They went into a room and called the king at the time to come in, and they flipped the switch in the match on that. They didn't do him a favor, he didn't win anything since because he never had to work hard enough to win. And he knew there was always the backroom deal that could happen, so he would win till he went internationally.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

But anyway, I I uh I I got a question just from a development standpoint, Coach Reno. Do you remember, and you you probably remember too, Grandmaster? You remember when we had those under-24 teams? Yeah, and you remember, I think it was like one year we did under-24. And do you remember the rule was set that even if you were under 24 and you had already made a senior national team, you weren't allowed to compete? Which makes that made some sense, right? Because it makes the most sense because you're gonna you're protecting the development of everyone else in some other educated shop.

herb 37:32

It's a pipeline blocker, so you're talking to the greatest, two greatest pipeline blockers in the history of our sport. Because we were on teams, all the development in the country stopped. Because if you didn't make a national team back then, you didn't get developed. You stayed home. There was nothing for you to go to. There were no opens, there was no whatever. So once they created this other system, back then you had to give those guys opportunities, otherwise, nobody was going to get out of this country. Because the number one guy had all the internet, and that's what's the that was the benefit of it. We knew we had a win, even if it was a non-Olympic year.

Juan 38:05

Because that's why TJ, like in this under-21 thing nowadays, they shouldn't do that. If someone's 18 or 19, they're making a team, we should keep them there and then let this next person come up. So at least now you have two good kids, young kids.

herb 38:17

Get them developed and practice.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I is that is that you think that's a nation uh a country rule, or should be a WT rule? Because what was the point of WT introducing this under-21 world championships and all that stuff? You're literally just giving the same people more chances to get points if they're 18, 19, 20. And the numbers say that our guys are getting younger, right? That's crazy. Everyone's looking at the colour.

Juan 38:36

You could be a world champion. Let's say you're a WT world champion, and and then all of a sudden you put your 20 years old and you get to go to the 21 under 21 world championships and get points again. Like, no, I if you got a medal, you shouldn't even actually let me think this through. I don't think they should be that.

herb 38:52

They shouldn't let national team members fight in um you shouldn't let national team members fight at collegiates, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Nah, I mean, yes and no. Yes and no. Yes and no. I think it's two different things. I'm just saying, I guess from our country selection of our under-21 team, if we were actually paying attention and doing the right thing, that would be a prime opportunity to keep some of these these kids who are already on our national team, whether they're 20 or 21 and close to that age, like to kind of get some more people through the door that are going to these events. I mean, we're having the selection for the under for the the at the nationals for the people that'll be at the team trials or something like that. But if you were on last year's national team, if you were last year's under 21, if you were last year's this, last year's that, and that's most of our national team, we're just literally moving that same group of people over into this this next situation. And it just doesn't make sense for me from a standpoint of like growth or again, trying to do something different, or trying to give people more or build underneath the guys that we have. We're just we're just kind of rewashing and oh well, we want to we want to make sure we're here to coach the we want to make sure we're a part of this, so they just keep putting people in positions and

Technique First Not Circus Drills

SPEAKER_02 40:00

changing things. What is that? Uh oh. That does look pretty good.

herb 40:05

He does some nice, he does uh listen. He does text me.

Juan 40:10

My man Sven, I'm going to on this podcast that Wednesday.

herb 40:13

Oh, you got to remind him, yeah. So I know he hasn't had me on because he's afraid of me, but that's okay. He wants to get you on, he thinks you're hilarious. I I know I'm hilarious, but you know, there's no doubt about that. But you know, hey, I actually, you know what?

Juan 40:26

I mean, listen, uh not for nothing. Not for nothing. Uh I mean, we're not the first podcasters in the world, but I love that he came on our podcast and then he decided to do something. He's called it verbal violence. You know, I think it's pretty funny. He's had some people on. Um, I love that they were on there making a lot of sense. They were. I I I I told him, I said, hey man, I I thought you guys did a great job. You know, so I I I like it, you know, and I know even Mr. Lewis and those guys, they they didn't put up too much, you know, videos like in the past. Well, and if they have, I, you know, it's definitely a little bit more getting a little bit more traction now. I I like that people are doing these kind of things because I think it just it's created more awareness to for everything, whether it's you know, in this country or in other countries. I mean, I've had other countries, you know, again, people from Latin America asked me where to where can I get a sorry not sorry shirt. I'm like, that's awesome, man. The the guy from Canada, Mark, I I brought him one. He was just like, oh my God, thanks. And he took a picture and he posted it. And yeah, it's little things like that that I think, you know, kind of chip away and kind of break down some barriers and you know, have those real hard questions talked about. And that's what I mean. Maybe I should say this now. Like, you know, I I'm happy that we're able to talk about these so people don't think that it's always personal. Like you said a long time ago, TJ, it's not hate because you question the status quo. You know, it's just it's it's a real concern. It's a it's a difference in opinion. I mean, you know, there's there's a lot of people that are are influencing what's going on right now in in this country at least, that just don't have the experience. They just don't have the know-how. They just don't have the understanding of what's going on. And we're paying for it by virtue of everything we've talked about today over the last eight years. You can say whatever you want. There are the tournaments run better. I don't know. Are there more people? Not really. It's starting to tick up a little bit, but it's in eight years. The results of sustained competitive excellence is just not there.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

And you know what's crazy? Uh it's not there. But like you said, the people that are leading this country are setting examples. I mean, I I guess one of my biggest concerns is always and forever. You know, they they live and die on showing what our Olympians are doing and what our world champions are doing, and how they're training, how they're how they're doing all this stuff. I personally don't believe that has anything to do with development. I don't think our 14 to 17 or 10 to 11 it could be inspiration, it could be inspirational.

Juan 43:00

Inspirational.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yes. But we're telling people you gotta do this, you gotta do this. We got kids doing things like again, this whole the whole strength and conditioning side of everything, I think it's always a little bit lost-awed when it comes to kids. That's just how I feel. You got people doing these wild weirdo drills and rubber band this way, and you gotta kick the apple off the hat the other way and turn the other way and block a paddle flying at your face, and they don't know how to stand and do a round kick.

Juan 43:22

It's can I ask you? Can I uh I'm gonna say something, man. What what did I brag about when I came back from Uzbekistan? How I sat in the side and I saw this person kick. I'm like, oh man, that that's beautiful technique. And then the next one, then the next one, and then these guys, and then these girls, and I'm going, they they all had beautiful technique. They all had beautiful technique. They they stepped good, they covered well, up bond, fast kick, back leg, double kick, nada bond, back kick, spinning hook kick, axe kick. They could do taekwondo. I watched our best of our best, and I'm watching it, I'm like low key cringed.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Like, and I know you can say, well, you they're doing things nowadays that just they work for the sport or they work for the the the movement, the movement, the transitions, the forward, the back, the in the space, the the doing it properly because you're in a good place to do it properly. All that stuff to me matters. But we're following this example of look at what these guys are doing, and we gotta do it like this, and we're giving that to our kids at an age that that's not important. And then we sit back and wonder why the kids look athletic, they look a little strong, they look like they do some stuff, but they just can't figure it out.

Juan 44:31

TJ, do you know anybody? I mean, again, I I I'm I'm care I'm characterizing every putting everybody in a bubble, but I'm just trying to say we talked about the country of Iran looking good. The country, do you look at any of any of our national team and say, this guy's smooth, this guy can step, this woman can has good, good movement, good feints, good footwork. Like, is there anyone that stands out to you that like that? Like, I'm gonna say no. Like, I think probably if I had to give one person, I'd say Faith Dylan.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Like, I was about to say the same thing.

Juan 45:02

Yeah, she has the most classic style. She can step, she steps up. She everybody else is chopping a disc, stand on one leg, put their foot up and try to fall down and kick. I mean, like, no, no feeling.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

It's a transition for me. It's the it's the going forward, it's the going back, there's like no feeling.

Juan 45:18

And that's athleticism. I mean, that's real athleticism. Don't tell me just because you can you're flexible, but I'm talking like understanding, like you said, position, understand distance control, understand timing, understand just changing the rhythm. Like those are what the best people can do. And you're right, TJ. That's a great point. Like, we're showing all these people how to do these things that work for that top person, whether it's a guy or a girl, and not going all the way down and saying, here's how you stand, here's things. I'm gonna pat myself on the back. I'm gonna pat myself on the back because that's everything I do in my seminars right from the beginning. I would be lying to everybody if I said, let's do this, this, this, and this. And and young, you said something earlier, and I'm gonna I want to go ahead and take a shot and a shot at by or brag for myself. Listen, people always talk about retooling, and how many people I've seen in this country come up with a superstar, and then they're obsolete, even in the world. There's great coaches, you know, and you know, there was a moment where everyone's like, we gotta go here because they have all these players, and now you don't hear from that coach. We gotta go here because there's all I warned my my my coach, Diego. I said Diego's one of the hottest coaches. I'm like, Diego, everyone's talking about you right now. You got a good gym, you got a good system, you got good athletes. But what are you gonna do for to sustain it? Because you know, five years ago it was this person, four years ago it was this person, three years it was this person, it's you right now. How are you gonna sustain? And that's why I was saying, like, listen, I'm I'm I'm proud of peak performance that we've been able to do this for 20 years to stay at some kind of relevant level. If it's not here in this country with me, I've been able to at least help let's just say I helped another country climb up because you could say whatever you want, but they weren't doing it before. They didn't have this kind of thing. So I'm part of that mechanism. You know, you could say it's by accident, you know, I would debate with you. But I'm proud of what we've been able to do for a long period of time, and I think that's how fast you rebound.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

But you've continued to do it, you've continued to put people on a national team and people that can go and compete internationally. I know we were talking about, you know, one of your guys just competed, uh, Daniel's competed at the World Championships, but this again, he's 14. This is me giving him an excuse, not really an excuse, but he's 14. It's a first introduction to a lot. I've had the pleasure of sitting in this kid's chair, and I know I can see that there's a future in development. You know what I mean? And that's just that's just how I can see that there's something in the works and to hear him, and again, me and you talk a lot, and to hear someone go, okay, they come back to training on Monday, and they're just right back into the mix. That's the making of what it should be. That's right. That's that's how it should be, and that's how we should be in the entire country per se. And I don't know whatever these rest of these kids did. They're sure they went back to training too. But if you're not doing that, if we're we're kind of satisfied with, you know, these guys said when they first came in, they said something about they they wanted it to they wanted to uh get our guys to, this is when I was still competing, our guys to want more than to just make the national team. I have never lived through an era of my tech one career where making the national team was the end goal. Everybody wanted a shot at the big dance, and what we had to go through to make the team, you had to go through to make the team. It was just what it was. But it was never the culture in the United States of America to just try to make a national team.

Juan 48:42

They also said they wanted, they they I I read something, you know, a while ago, and they were like, you know, the national team in the United States is very weak, is very down right now. Nobody looks at them as a as difficult as a difficult match or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And here we are, eight years later, and we're in the exact same position. And it's on their dime, it's on their time. I don't know. Eight years. It's again, it's just I feel I feel like a broken record, but we always get we always circle back to it,

Pan Am Championships Predictions

Juan 49:12

you know. And let's transition a little bit into a couple weeks. Actually, it's like 10 days away now that I think about it, because next, well, Friday will be one week from the for the Pan Ams. It's down in real. It's down in real. Um let's go. What do you think? What do you think the intensity level is gonna be there? It's Pan Am. What's your what's your guess?

SPEAKER_02 49:39

I think we can all go, oh, the points are gonna reset. Oh, you know, it's not gonna mean too much. I know some of the points will matter for like the entry for the last grand prix, I believe. But it's a championship, it's in this region. I think me, I think a lot of these countries got stuff to prove, and I think they should prove it. I think this gives us a a good start to the reset. I think it gives us a good look into what's going to turn it probably to the most competitive two years we've seen in Techmodel in a long time.

Juan 50:05

I think it's gonna stepping stone to that. I think it's gonna be a warm-up for for most people because you know the Grand Prix is coming up in Rome right after that in June. Uh the points do reset. If you win, great. For most of the big guys, if you lose, it's not the end of the world. I'm gonna pick a country right now that I'm gonna think is going to work hard to make a statement. Mexico. And I'm gonna tell you why. Because they hired a new high performance director. Um, I don't think he's the greatest fit, but he they hired they hired a new another coach. I just they they just came off with Central American Games qualification, which is nothing for them. But I just have a feeling they're gonna try to come to Brazil to be like to be competitive. I don't think the Americans would do. I don't think the Americans are gonna do anything. The big ones will do something, but they're so discombobulated, they're not a real team. So I don't think that they're gonna come together and have this great show, and they're gonna have some good matches, of course. I mean, the big ones, you know, I don't have to give you the names. The big people will probably do well, and the other people will be there. Brazil, um, you know, we have a lot of people in the in the competition. I expect pretty decent results, but at the same time, it's not the end all for me because I know really the for the people that that I that we're really focused on, it all starts in June 1st. So, but I think they'll do well. I think we should be number one, number two. You know, I think our big guys will do okay. I think there's we uh I'm curious to see some of our non-national team players that got wild cards match up against some people, and people better be careful because there's a couple of them. They're like those nobodies, but they they want to be somebody. And I I think it would be fun to get in the ring of people like who who the hell is this kid? Who the hell is this chick? Could be interesting, could be could be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

So I think the one thing all these countries, I think they they like you said that's kind of a good point. I think they really like they know and they believe or they want to be somebody. And I again, I'm just comparing, but I think it's just just in their nature. They see the people that have where they've come from and like they're their process of getting there, and and I think they believe that they can they can be competitive in this sport and they they fight and act like it.

Juan 52:24

Oh, we I will say, I will say this, TJ. It's it's big, like again, the big countries, let's just say USA, Mexico, maybe even Canada, we're kind of like, okay, but to Argentina, to Colombia, to Venezuela, to Cuba, to Dominican, to Ecuador right now, like for them to win or knock off somebody, that's their Olympic Games, because they're probably never gonna get there. So they got that shot at an American, a Brazilian, a Mexican. Let me tell you that you're right. That me, that's their day in the sun. That they, you know, young, you're right, you know, he's my good friend. He's we call him Cupid, big in Spanish because he introduced my me to my wife. To this day, every time I talk to Fabio, the one thing in his life is that he fought you and he beat you one time. And he just to this day, to this day, he'll always talk about that. And it's it's it's the same for an Argentinian or or or Colombian or something.

herb 53:19

He's a great and I have a lot of respect for him because he's a great fighter. I know he's a great fighter too.

Juan 53:26

I you know, like not a great movie star. I'm gonna tell him that too.

herb 53:29

Well, he I always liked him because you he was always friendly and polite, and so even to this day. So yeah, he is. You know I like him as well.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

So you're too to your to your point, you gotta think all those countries don't have as much as many people going to the Grand Prix. This is their championship. Like this is these are this is funding for them, this is status for them. This is this is real life for them. Everyone's not gonna leave there and go to the Romans, you know. That's what I'm saying. I think most of these countries can't afford not to be competitive or try to be competitive. I think they're gonna bring everything they got because and we haven't even talked about the Grand Prix yet. That's gonna be hectic and thick.

New Rules And Referee Control

Juan 54:08

I think uh I mean for this one they're using uh uh KPP gen too with the gloves too, so I think the punches won't won't be there um as much.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Um they're still using that one fight where someone scores nine. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen.

Juan 54:25

So they're still using what the old school the rules. I mean, what I mean that that first Grand Prix gonna be crazy with that those comjons at the end of the with the last 10 seconds of not fighting the double comjon. That's gonna be some some bullshit. Have we talked about that? What do you think about that? I think it's stupid. I don't know if we talked about that.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

Yeah, me too.

Juan 54:45

I think it's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Me too. I think it's horrible. I think they keep putting these constraints on what the fight should look like.

Juan 54:51

It's not not just that, TJ. It's more and more control. It keeps, you know, they I always heard about this this PSS stuff. It's it's it's equal, it's equal, it's equal. But now, I mean, there's just so many subjective calls for the holding. Like we talked about, like they let you, okay. They say we're gonna let you guys fight more, and they let people kick each other in the clinch all day long, blah, blah, blah. And then you do it at the end and they get you, and they take off the points to give you deduction. The same thing. Like, like I said, what if I'm moving back and I'm up, I'm paying, I'm double kicking, and they say Kallio, and they say, I'm trying to run out the match. I'm not, I'm not fighting. Or at least we've seen it.

herb 55:28

Let me but let me let me ask you a question. So the idea of scoring is really simple. Point one is point one, point two is point two. There's no more, should there be more? So you should have less point value for the first point scored in a match because it was accidental. Should there be intent on a point? So if you walk out of the ring, if you're managing the match and X amount of minutes into the match, you find yourself in a place where you can suffer a deduction point. So what? That's you managed six minutes of the match or three minutes or whatever it is. That's there should be no different, you don't change points, correct?

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Yeah.

herb 56:05

So I mean it's just but you got to remember where it's coming from. It's coming from a Korean culture of punishment. They've never understood reward. When we tried to explain this to them when we originally created it, it was like reward what you want to see rather than punishing what you don't want to see. But they can't help themselves because you got the ass clown Yang Jinban involved, and you got all these other clowns involved that never fought.

Juan 56:28

I just don't know where it comes into play. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

I was about to say, do we do like who makes the rule like who who sits in the room and goes, let's that's a good idea? That's this is great. Let's let's let's yeah, let's do this. Oh, yeah. We just talked about it. Because it goes like this.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

It's like, oh, this is not exciting. These guys uh they they're grabbing too much. Uh so let's let them pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.

herb 56:57

If they're gonna go pushing and pushing, then they they cannot grab us so much. Oh, I notice he's running out of the ring. This is less exciting. We watch six minutes of bad taekwondo, and then he can just run out of the ring because he has enough pointer. Let's punish him some more. Oh, I noticed he ate too much kimchi, he ate too much kimchi, so we must punish him. No, he should not eat the last bunch of kimchi. This is such a dumb ass Korean thing. And I encourage everybody to watch, read the book Hamel's Journey, because it'll explain it all to you. It'll it'll make all this perfectly clear. This is a cultural thing. I'm not being xenophobic or or whatever. This is cultural. They were they come from a culture of punishment and not reward because they were always inundated with cultural challenges. That that's just reality.

Juan 57:53

I just don't understand because I let me explain it to you again.

herb 57:56

You do not understand because you're looking at the flower, not the seed, and the pushy is the problem. So now that they are pushing too much, uh we must allow the grabbing.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

We don't call it the grabbing. No, it's not grabbing, it is a manipulation we allow now, and then no, you cannot call it caressing kick.

herb 58:17

It's called scorpion kick, and it is good. Now it would not hurt anybody, but we don't care anymore because we too we try we try to stay, we are trying to stay in the Olympic. Don't look at the flower, look at the seed. So we must stay in the Olympic, even if the taekwondo is no more important. No, no, it's got to be said, you do not understand. Do you know why? Uh because you are not Korean. Okay, so we even though no no ponchoreno, you have a good result. No, no, your name is Brazil, but we cannot look at you. We have to hire a Korean because we don't have any Americans that can coach. Let's get us some British guys who, by the way, Great Revolution. I don't know if you listened to last week's podcast, a song has been written. It's time to send them back. Time for the second revolution. Paul Revere is riding again, my friend.

Juan 59:12

No, but you know what, TJ, in every sport, like for example, in in basketball, you don't you move the ball around and you you you at the clock they kick the ball out of bounds, you know. They keep it in the park the bus, baby. Yeah, it's crazy. I'm not sure what that was.

herb 59:27

Soccer, they go into the corner, they sit in the corner with the ball, they stick the ball there, they put their butt out, and they chat they what they wait for you to kick it out of bounds. So now I hate that part of the game. I also don't like the offside rule. I think it's dumb. I run fast. Why do I have to slow down and let you keep up? Keep up. You know what I mean? Like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

But even I know we're just talking about regular sports, but even like boxing, imagine the end of the 12th round, I beat you up for 12 rounds and I'm moving my feet like and they're like, one point off, not fighting. Like, what are we talking? Like, it's it's it's mind-bogging wrestling, Greco-Roman wrestling, those guys stall too.

Juan 1:00:05

But that it again, and yes, it's I think it's a bad rule, but I think the interpretation of it is gonna be even worse because there's there's some referees that are really good and they understand like what people are trying to do, but there's most of them they haven't competed, they don't understand what's what's at risk. I mean, they don't understand what kind of decision they're about to make to flip because of their of their judgment. Like, if you go out of bounds, there's no judgment, you went out of bounds. You fall down, there's no judgment, you fall down. But like, if they're they're judging whether I'm fighting or not, it's hard for them to understand what's going on. It's hard for them to be objective in that. It's almost it's impossible. So to put that in there again gives a lot more control, a lot more lean weight.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

We just spent we just spent a year and a half or last year saying how we want to take more control from the referees and give it back to the fighters. They said that now we just flipped it again. They said that.

Juan 1:01:03

They said that that's why you can push and grab and you can do a little bit. We don't want to interfere, right? But you're gonna interfere. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

But we're gonna interfere and make be in a position that we can make calls that'll flip could flip a match, or do or or like I just it's I don't understand. Out of all the things we have issues with in the sport, yeah, why we keep correcting things that aren't broken?

Juan 1:01:22

Yeah, that's a that's and you know, everyone said that. I mean, you know, we keep changing the rules, just when everybody gets used to it, they kind of flip it again. It's just they tinker with it. It's it's not it's uh it's it's troubleshooting too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

You do not understand your look of flower, not to see it again. You needed to stop, uh, you need to call a master all a you he will help you understand.

herb 1:01:47

Oh, I hope I get cancel me, cancel me. But by the way, tell tell me that nothing I said is not true. Everything I said is true. You don't have to like it, but it's true. And I and I sat in the room with these guys where they tried to, and I love Daewon Moon, but he tried to stop us from changing the point system because he didn't like it. Young Jinban, I forgot more taekwondo than he knows. This guy is the guy now, he's the guy with the pushing and the grabbing. You want to blame it?

Juan 1:02:14

I can't watch the finger than some people.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

You know it's hurt now. You got they might have a chance. It's hurt.

herb 1:02:21

Don't look at the finger. You mustn't look at the glorious moon.

Juan 1:02:26

Hey, when you come down to Brazil, anybody wants to go to a good spot to eat, let me know. I'll hook up.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

I'm excited. I'm excited about the Pan Am Championships. I'm not gonna lie. I I am I got a couple of guys going on to do the under 21 and the cadet tournament after. So, and I got my guy uh Brandon for fighting for Puerto Rico, so I'll be able to watch him. But I I'm I know unlike Grandmaster, I still like watching it, and it's different watching it live. And I always know no matter where the points are, no matter what's going on, it's always a competitive tournament because I think a lot of other countries won, and the Grand Prix aren't chasing top five, top six points.

Electronic Scoring Changes How Kids Kick

herb 1:03:01

I unfortunately watched the AAU, the local one here where a couple of my kids fought in it, and I watched um I watched the electronic scoring system not work. Like I watch kids kick and nothing worked, and I watch people like I'd watch a kick where a guy would actually do a kick and the other guy knew how to touch the chest protector with whatever, and it would, you know, like it's weird now because even when I'm my kids are being coached and Coach Romano comes out, and now you'll be coming out. When I teach my kids to kick, I teach I teach this. When they practice, Lopez helps them they they teach this. And it's about leaving your foot on the chest protector long enough to get an impact to make a connection, so it ruins the kicking technique. I got kids who can kick, flexible and good, and I'll watch them kick a target and they dead like it because they know that's gonna make a point on the chest protector. So, you know, for some of my kids who probably did okay this week and could have done better, it's because they kick right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

But yeah, but they should just be kicking right anyways. Like this system is so unpredictable. The only thing you can do is kick right and and stand right and move right and block right because that system will fail you time and time again.

herb 1:04:09

I'm working on my kicks, I'm working on my kids kicking hard enough where it doesn't matter, so that when they kick somebody, the other guy lays on the floor and cries. So that's my next I'm I'm making the next generation of fighters.

Juan 1:04:21

So today today I was we're doing like flexibility side. We're doing old school, like target stuff and down the floor. We're doing like um, like I spent like 45 minutes of stretching. So we're doing like acting. What's up? I said, I want you to go highest point and down.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

So when you when you hit it, you smash their face, you break their teeth. I go, uh I go, anyone that breaks a nose or busts their tooth out, I'll give you 20 bucks, and they're all like dollar bonus, dollar bonus. I'm like, I'm I'm kidding, I'm kidding, guys, but they're all looking at me like I'm nuts. It was funny, it was a funny thing.

herb 1:04:54

Anyway, guys, look at me. It's getting late, but listen, um Patrice Remarque would take an axe kick, bring it up, bring it down on a guy's head, bring his head to the floor, and step on it on the floor, right? Like, I I can't tell you the amount of times I saw Patrice take a guy's foot, take his head, leave his foot on the guy's head, and use his quadricep to bring his head all the way to the floor, and then bounce his head off the floor. That was Patrice. That's why guys left the tournament rather than fight the guy. He was a tough guy.

Community Support And Seminar Plug

herb 1:05:26

On another note, um, you know, we have a uh a friend of ours who's ill. Yeah, so that is true. I sent him a note, and so our brother, um, one of my favorite people in Taekwondo has always done it for the right reasons. Um, uh Daisung Lee, uh one of my seniors was my team captain, was a coach of Moreno as well. And some of us he's uh he's going through some hard times. So check up on Facebook if you can and send a dollar or two his way because um he was in China for a long time. Shout out to my brother and former coach of US team and my team captain and the captain of the room a lot when I would have left the room. So just wishing him the best. He's in California. And uh there's a uh GoFundMe up there. Um which is uh which is up and running. So we just wanted to mention that.

Juan 1:06:39

Yeah, let's wrap it up. Hey, I'm gonna be in Chicago this weekend.

herb 1:06:43

So if anybody's out there send me an Italian beef, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

I got my training seminar at my school this weekend, May 2nd, from 10 to 12, 1 to 3. Um we'll have some electronic sparring going on. A new company has a system they want to come try out. I'm excited to see everyone. We got a good group so far, a lot of different ages. So if you're interested in having signed up, yeah, there's a few days left.

herb 1:07:03

The words of the warehouse 15, as they say, or not a society. I did not mean to offend you. Just look at the finger, not the move. Unless the finger is, well, there's another story we can't tell here. You know where that finger was. Peace, we out.

Outro Track And Sign Off

SPEAKER_06 1:07:41

By the dark spirits at the back gate. Go make it right. We read the signs on the concrete with ash on our hands. If evil wants a witness, then evil's in our plans. Sorry, not sorry. We don't fold, sunshine, keep moving, but the truth gets told You can run. You can hide do the reckoning comes alive. Sorry, not sorry, sunshine. Sorry, not sorry, sunshine. Run if you want, but you can't hide. The Olympic brotherhood arrives. Sorry, not sorry, sunshine. Sorry, not sorry, sunshine. Hold that line, don't close your eyes. The reckoning takes what it decides Still teeth drawing the hair out. Oops on the floor Every line that you built here We kicked it to the door We saw the smoke in your corners The standing on your name Now the dog gets a mirror And it knows it's shame Sorry not sorry We don't fold Sunshine Keep moving But the truth gets told You can run, you can hide, steal the recognition Sorry not, sorry, such eye Sorry not sorry, sun shot Run if you all but you can't hide I the Olympic brotherhood arrives Sorry not, sorry, such eye Sorry not, sorry, such eye Hold that line, don't close your eyes The reckoning takes what it decides When the black wind circles back, we stay, we don't kneel Names card Deep in the hard road everyone made real One more step one last call If the dark ones payment it gets up Sorry, not sorry, sunshine Sorry, not sorry, sunshine Run if you want, but you can't hide The Olympic brotherhood arrives Sorry, not sorry, sunshine Sorry, not sorry, sunshine Hold that line, don't close your eyes, the recording takes what it decides.