Why Brazil Dominated The Pan American Taekwondo Championships

Brazil didn’t just win the Pan American Taekwondo Championships, they sent a message: culture plus coaching equals medals. We’re recording with boots on the ground in Brazil, reacting to what we saw at Pan Ams, what the brackets reveal, and why “they had a good weekend” is too small of an explanation when a team takes half the available gold.

We dig into the uncomfortable details: repeat matchups like CJ vs Henrique and what they expose about game planning, emotional control, and corner leadership. We also talk about the modern obsession with highlight reels, viral clips, and “style points,” and why that mindset can quietly sabotage athlete development when winning stops being the standard.

From there, we zoom out to USA Taekwondo and the national team pipeline: missing weight categories, confusing absences, and decisions that leave athletes under-supported on the day it matters. We compare it to what Brazil is building with juniors and cadets, where seniors stay, leaders engage, and the next generation feels connected to the mission. We also touch the growing talent exodus, athletes switching countries, and what early European Championship results suggest about the widening international gap.

If you care about high performance taekwondo, coaching accountability, and building a real national team culture, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a coach or teammate, and leave a review with your take: what has to change first for the USA to own the Pan Am region again?

Transcript

Back Together And Checking In

herb 3:14

We are back in black. Well, some of us blacker than others, and some of us lighter than others, and some of us mocha, mocha, mocha, mocha. Welcome, my brothers. Sorry, not sweet.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Look good.

herb 3:27

Black in the very sweet of the juice. Sweet. That's what they say. That's what they say. When you go Puerto Rican, you don't go back. How are we doing? Who's up? Who's first day?

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Go ahead there. What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? Well, I don't know. I'm I'm still out here in Brazil, actually. Um, we finished the Pan Am Championships and uh at a the cadet open and under 21 open. Had a couple decent results in that. So I had some fun getting some matches out here. I'm here at Diego School for a couple days with a few of my guys and some other peak guys, just um taking in the sights and learning some new stuff and getting some work in his facilities. It's it's beautiful. It's almost like the dream. He's got the physio rooms, he's got the rest rooms, you know. Pretty cool place, big open building. So I'm excited to get through the rest of the week. I'll be here until about Wednesday or Thursday, and then um get back to North Kakalaki, where the you know the people are missing me. With the what do you say, the toothless people are missing me, even though everybody got their teeth, but uh miss home, ready to get back home too. What's up with you, Coach Reno? I know you were out here pretty recently.

Juan 4:24

Listen, I stayed, you know, you know, we'll talk about the Pan Ams. I uh stayed for the junior cadets, we'll talk about that. I came home Saturday night and got home Sunday morning. I was home in time for Mother's Day, spent a nice uh morning with my family, you know, having brunch and then hanging out at the pool, getting sunburnt like a mofo. But uh yeah, it was good and happy to be back home. Actually, I'm home for a while, so just gotta need some time to relax and and be with my my home kids and yeah, get right back to back to the grind. But I want to talk about the Pan Am Championships because it was bam blowout.

Pan Am Seniors Results And Pressure

Juan 5:05

It was like the Knicks blowing out the 76ers. Nah, it was like that, but result-wise, uh obviously we we had talked, you know, TJ and and Grandmaster Perez, we talked about this event, like what it was gonna look like. And um I was I really didn't know, you know, but when I sat back and thought about it Saturday night, I'm like all the teams were there with their big guns, uh all their teams were there with their national teams, whether it was Canada, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, blah blah blah blah go down the list, uh Ecuador, Peru. Everybody was there, like you mentioned, TJ, and it was their moment. It was their moment to to kind of shine. And you know, that kind of put a again when I sat back and thought about it, that's a certain amount of pressure on Brazil, right? Because everyone's taking shots at the at the leaders of the pack. You can say whatever you want, but it's in our home c country. It's you know, there's a lot of you know good things that have been happening in Brazil for the Brazilian team. So everyone's taking their shot. And dude, we took it like a champ, came out with eight gold medals, 50% of the gold medals, five silver medals, a bunch of bronze. It's it's pretty um pretty crazy. Pretty, pretty crazy. So um, you know, we had some a lot of heads-up matches with with with the United States and Canada and Brazil, and I'm sorry, United States, Canada, Mexico, and by and large, we came out on top pretty pretty well. Um I think the US had two men gold medals and one woman gold medal, which it could be a drop from their last time. But uh, you know, some of the guns.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

It took negative 87 and plus 87, I believe.

unknown 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

For me, two wishy-washy divisions. I mean, the the heavyweight final was zero zero first round and zero zero second round. You would have loved that fight, Grandmaster. It was the most exciting thing I've ever watched in my entire life. The most tactical zero-zero match I've ever seen in my entire life for a final at the Pan Am Championships. I mean, I just I I can't fathom how we end those that final zero-zero and zero zero. I just, I don't know. It's unbearable. And I in the 87th division, um, it was good. Uh, what was his name? Isaiah Young ended up winning the division. I don't think there was too many big names in there. He fought uh Canada in the finals. I'm not sure what else. I know one of the Brazil boys actually got hurt in an earlier match. Um uh gold medals that the USA got for the men's side.

herb 7:40

For the who did they get gold medals for on the men's side?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

87 plus 87, middle heavyweight, yeah.

herb 7:49

Who was the who was it?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Uh Isaiah Young and then uh Jonathan Healy.

herb 7:55

Oh, Jonathan Healy? Oh, okay, good for you.

Juan 7:58

I mean, on the men's side, like Brazil, they took the 54. They took the 58, they had a goal, they had two Brazilians in the finals. They took the 63, they had two Brazilians in the finals. They took the no 68, we lost the final uh to Chile. And 74 we had two Brazilians in the final. And 80, you know, and Hike beat CJ again, and like you said, 87 and and plus 87 went to the United States. So that was pretty much a wrap on the men's side, you know, especially when we had three divisions that had both Brazilians in the final. So one's getting a gold and the other one's getting a silver. So I'm gonna go to the show.

CJ Vs Henrique And The Coaching Gap

herb 8:38

When is he moving? I'm sorry? When is when is he moving? When is uh CJ? Where is he moving? He doesn't follow the champions code. What's that? Probably want to know. You don't know the champion's code? Nothing. So if I lose to somebody once, that might be a mistake. I lose to somebody twice. The next time I see them, I bow and I call them sir, maybe master. I lose to them three times, I move to their country and I start carrying their bags to practice because basically I'm their bag boy. You lose to him four times, you got to move to his house, and you're his personal valet and servant because that's my rule. And I've got a story where I tell it to my athletes. So when's he moving?

Juan 9:23

Well, that's funny because actually somebody on the on the internet said something like, oh man, I think in Hike's CJ's kryptonite, and then someone responded, Well, he the matches have been close. I'm like, close smokes, whatever. It is his kryptonite. I mean, you can say whatever you want, but when you run off four or five straight, I'm not sure what it is. Like, someone's got your number.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I think I think Diego is Garrett's kryptonite. Like, it's a coaching flaw. We're gonna talk about it. Let's talk about it. I mean, I think obviously I know Henrique's super talented, he's a great guy, he fights well, he's the world champion, you know. But you have a formal, you should have a formal person on the other side. And like I said, I've seen many matches where I think CJ should have the advantage and we we give it away. It it goes away. Something changes between the first, second, and third round. There if it's not coaching, then what is you can't again? I know we can blame the athlete as a fighter, you know. Before I know it always falls on us. I think it should always fall on us. You know, we can say preparation, we can say coaches, we can say this, but like the reality is it's gotta be a coaching flaw. Don't it's gotta be, it's gotta be deeper than that. We're we're we're going 0 and 4 at this point. We're we're dropping matches that I I think um who won the first they went three rounds, correct? It didn't go three rounds. Who won the first round? Remind me, sorry.

Juan 10:35

Do you remember? Oh my gosh, did he get win the first round? I think he can won the first round.

herb 10:41

Did win the first round. I watched the fight. Yeah, I mean, I mean It was like watching, it was like, you know, it was like watching a It was like watching a skilled competitor handle somebody who was fledgling and had a bad coach. Like I know I mean not in the nicest way. And so when you manage a match like that, you let the other person do what they do, and then you figure them out, and then you just handle them. You don't expend any extra energy, you just take them to school. And the reason you do that is because you gotta fight them again, so you don't give him any more of a beating than you need to, so that he's so you know, at the point where you beat somebody three, four, or five times and you the other person can't get back past you, that rarely changes unless you get lucky.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

It's a weird thing because it's gotta be a it's either a matchup thing or a coaching thing. Like I said, we've seen CJ go do and do and win G2 opens in other parts of the world, right? Without his coach. Without his coach. His coach sucks. No, no, I let me say it plainly. Without coaching, his coach, his coach sucks.

herb 11:44

His coach is his problem. His coach is the guy cheering him on, cheerleading him, TikToking, wick walking him. I'm gonna tell you now, the most views on his TikTok is Brown, Garrett Brown. Garrett Brown suck is on his jock, as we used to say in the back in the day, so badly that he smells it when he sleeps. So, I mean, just to be clear, his problem is his coach. Yeah, you say what you want about it.

Juan 12:06

Both of you guys said something in and unprovoked, or I didn't say nothing. It's funny you said that young about you know, you you thought that he was just doing enough to win. His emotional intelligence is interesting because the coach told me, you know, I know CJ wanted to get into a big, a big match, a big demonstration, and you know, jumping in crazy, but Enhike said no, I only give him what I need. I only score the point and stop. Don't do more. And it's funny because you're right, TJ, to your point, it's a coaching. There was it was like he didn't the coach didn't allow Enhike to expose himself any more than he needed to. Think about it. You can say what you want, and I could have flipped this script and into US Open, but there was a huge crowd there for Enhike. Like a huge young and every match he fought, people were there. They all wanted a show, they all wanted him to do stuff. He could have easily fell into the the mix and just try to get out of his game plan. But his emotional intelligence, like you said, was not was is unbelievable. Is he's just so calm, you know, when everyone's watching him. He's so calm when everybody expects him to do something big, and he just gets the job done. And at the end of the day, what we always talk about, it's winning, right? He's winning. Nobody there's some style points, but it's winning.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

There's no style, style points happen on accident. Style points happen as the match develops. We're not we're not out there trying to hit big shot after big shot because we want everyone to think it's cool. I watch so many edits of so many different matches, not just their match, but so many different matches, and it makes these these the people on one side look like you know rock stars and they're doing all this great stuff, and you're looking at the end of the match and it's it's an L. You lost. It doesn't make any sense. But and these are these are these are media outlets doing this, you know what I mean? These are these are people that are trying to get followers putting that out there. So go look at this person doing this. So you follow my platform more. It's it's it's it's silly for me. I I'm I can't I can't get behind it. I hate it. I mean, I get I get back to my hotel room the next three days and I see highlight reels of people that didn't win. I just that's crazy. I know I know I I know there's you gotta support yourself, you gotta put yourself out there, you gotta do this thing. We're in that social media era, but like, dude, I'm sick of it. Like, I'm not gonna lie to you. I just it just makes no sense to me, you know? Yeah, that stuff used to be reserved for the winners. That stuff used to be reserved for for for big good moments. I mean, we got we got highlight reels from the quarterfinals. Like, what are we talking about?

Juan 14:45

You know, it's gonna say this is something along those lines, too.

herb 14:50

I'll tell you, I saw I saw an interesting highlight reel, just so you could understand. It was a highlight reel of an individual fighting Brazil, in which where he won. So I had to watch it again, and then I realized it wasn't the gold medal match. It was it was a it was a uh earlier match of a player who lost a gold medal to Brazil, a player named CJ who lost, and this is how deep he's digging. Like he's got Brazil so badly in his in his in his testicles that he can't get out of it. And so like he he post a match of him, by the way, fighting a close match against a guy from Brazil. And he almost lost that one too.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

And I'm like, it's not even just him, it's it's everyone else. Like I said, it's these it's these media outlets, it's it's the reposting of, and I get it. Like, you know, they gotta do promotions for our sport, they're trying to make our sport better, and like CJ's an exciting guy to follow, and I and I and I get that, but you're right. The story, if you don't know any better, you you think we had a rock star performance across the board. You think that, you know, I again I don't I don't care what people think anymore. I've I've lost that ability in my mind. I mean, dude, we we went out there and we had lackluster performances. Like you're saying, you got when we talk about Brazil, we're talking about how many multiple divisions had two Brazilians in the finals. That means their A guy and their B guy got through, or their A guy and their C guy got through into a finals where there's the national team and and wild cards. I just we we can't be in a good place right now. It makes no sense. You got people, you got people who won the Pan Am Championships last year or a year and a half, whenever it was ago, not getting back to the finals this year. I just I just don't understand. Something's something's gotta be. I mean, no, and again, I'm I I we come on this like almost every week and we always try to shy away because I think we all can go, it's not

USA Slump Missing Weights Missing Stars

SPEAKER_02 16:40

the athletes. I've I had so many conversations. It I can't keep saying, uh, as a as a like I said, as a former athlete and a fighter, I know we gotta hang it on our heads, but something's gotta be going on. It's it's gotta be it's gotta be what we're what they're doing every single day, or what, or what, what methodologies or thought processes they're taking into some of these matches against the people that they're fighting that they see often in this region.

Juan 17:04

And uh it it it it was pretty uh you know evident that there's uh there's a I don't know if it's a dip in in preparation, dip in in and focus, dip in belief. Something is off. Something is off for that, you know, for for to have that kind of performance and and all their big stars. They're they're 68, 72, and 80 all lost. Not one of them got through. You know, I kudos kudos to Faith Dylan. She's been fighting extremely well. We've talked very highly about her on this podcast. Um her development, she she beat a tough fighter in Skylar Park. We know Skylar is good, um, and and and Faith and her fought a three-round match, but Faith looked pretty solid, sharp, in control, not stressed. The opposite of what I just said. There was no dip in her in her in her focus, there was no dip in her her intensity, there's no dip in her strategy. It was very calm. Like I'm not sure why the rest of the rest of the guys don't have that. I mean, it's it's a it's something is weird to me. And you said it, you know, I I mean I we kind of skipped over getting back to CJ and Hike. Listen, they know exactly how to fight CJ. Diego knows exactly how to fight CJ. And and Hike could probably do it by himself now too, because they've done it so many times. You know, he still obviously needs the coach to to guide him and you know and and and press him in the right direction. But I I love that when they said CJ wanted to fight, but we we just we just manage the the match, we just manage the tempo.

herb 18:48

Like Yeah, of course, of course he wants of course he wants to fight. He wants to fight because he wants to he wants some magic. He wants a he wants a a mystery. Hail Mary. A Hail Mary, and it ain't happening, right? So like you know, like the guy who's losing, of course he wants to fight. I right I I you know, I gotta be honest, this guy fights um he fights a he fights a lot more than I would have fought. I I don't I didn't fight guys I beat regularly. I fought I fought guys that I, you know.

Juan 19:18

But you know what, he'll be like I I and I understand, first of all, different era, but you are also a different athlete at a different stage of your life. What I appreciate about Hike is that boy don't dodge or fight. Like he don't say.

herb 19:31

At his stage, he needs to fight all the fights that he can to set the stage and he's doing the right thing. So I'm not saying that I'm not judging him. I'm just simply saying you're right. At the stage I was at, I had no interest in fighting guys because I was fighting guys that were good and I was fighting guys that were capable of beating me if I had a bad day. And I was fighting guys, you know, that I respected. And so as a result of that, I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna give these guys any more bites at the apple to try to get to me.

Juan 19:59

CJ, all right, CJ, TJ, before we move on, anybody that surprised you or anything that surprised you at the at the Pan Am Seniors, any coach, any athlete, not coach, but any athlete, any team.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

I before I go too far, I know we talked about the guy's side, but our girl side for the United States, I think we were missing a 62, a 67. Um, was it 62, 67?

Juan 20:26

62 supposedly didn't make weight or make weight.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

She wasn't there, so I don't like she was she there? I didn't I didn't see her. So she was there, like so. Don't say let's not say didn't make weight. Let's say she didn't show up. Like it's not like she got on scale and it failed, or we were close. So if she wasn't close, if she wasn't close, how long wasn't she close? And I can't blame this on anybody else but the academy because she's in your room every single day. So if she's in your room every single day and you see this girl has no ability to make 62 for this competition, why are we not contacting our other 62? We have another, I think the girl that got uh second was Danica Deaton, who is pretty freaking talented, and even if she wasn't, she spends her money and her time doing this sport and deserves to be at the Pan Am Championship if the person that won the trials can't make the weight. And our national team system knew that this girl was not coming and could not make the weight, and they have an obligation that they should contact this girl and we should fill that spot. Why are we showing up without a 62 and not our top 67?

Juan 21:25

Again, again, on the 62, I agree with you 100%. She's in their room with the national team and at the academy. They should, if she's not they they they thought that she couldn't make it so bad, they didn't even put her in a plane. They should have been calling somebody, be on standby, blah blah blah blah blah. So that's ridiculous. The 67, that's uh the biggest question in the room because she was not even on the list, she didn't show up, we didn't see her at the US Open. Who knows what's going on?

SPEAKER_02 21:58

But you know what's concerning? Because that we've seen this story before. We've seen this weight story before. We've seen this, we've seen this weight story before. So, so and we've seen this weight story. Now I mean before, I mean years and years and years this has happened, and mostly everyone up there has somehow, somehow, always had a weight issue, and then you blame it on, you know, that you were in Colorado with not all the nutrition. Now you're at the US OPC where you're supposed to have strength and conditioning, and you're supposed to have nutrition. All these things that you tell everyone you have, and we're still making that mistake. Something, something's not right. And then we're then I've seen this other story where our top people, our 67, our Olympians, somehow, somehow, our MIA go away, are confused, in between, not there. I don't, I can't make it make sense. Like it's almost, I for the first time probably am sad. I know we we we we we talk about we get on here and we talk about um Brazil and their success because it's happening live in front of our faces and it can't be denied. There's so much more dominant than this part of the world, it's ridiculous, to the point where it's it's a sad weekend for me. I'm watching this shit and it's just not it, it's just silly. You want to know the surprising part. I watch a kid struggle, I watch this our 74 kid kind of struggle through his first match a little bit, and this is just my analysis. It wasn't an easy match, and I know we have rough matches. Then I watch his dad fill in for a tougher match and have success. Have success. He got this kid back to where he was going. I'm seeing this kid start using his back leg, start hitting big shots, start spinning, start being himself, and then the sit the the quarter the semifinals comes and we put Lambden back in the chair. You make it make sense to me. What are we doing? You made this guy part of our coaching staff. Why? Who? And I again I blame the coaches. I blame the coaches, I blame those coaches, and I blame the coaches with these wildcard athletes. Don't don't tell me, don't tell me it makes sense for wild cards that have to be coached by our national team in every situation. It doesn't, it doesn't make sense. Like this wildcard thing started a while back to not circumvent the national team, but give people another way to get to a championship outside of the national team system. And now we've taken that and put everyone around. We put people in their chairs that don't know nothing about these kids, they don't know anything about them, they don't care about their success, they don't care. Don't tell me they care, they can't care. You can't be that invested because you don't know them.

Juan 24:20

So why at the world championships where they don't want to coach him, you know what I'm saying? And then all of a sudden, here they want to coach him. That's crazy, right? Do you you see what I'm getting at? You know?

SPEAKER_02 24:35

It's all about it's all about optics.

Wildcards Optics And Uneven Corners

herb 24:38

Coach Moreno, you're doing it again. Do not look at the flower, look at the seed. You must have stopped. Don't look at the finger pointing at the moon. You must look at the finger pointing at the anus. Go ahead.

Juan 24:52

We're not even we're not even planting seeds anymore. But 40 46, no medal, 49, no metal, and had the pendant champion last time in 49. 53, you had a U.S. athlete that trains in Spain, that doesn't train in the United States at all, so you can't nobody can take it, you know, there. 57-1. 62, we didn't have anybody, 67. We didn't have anybody. 73, we didn't have anybody.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

I think she was injured, so she wasn't there. Our 73 wasn't there.

Juan 25:21

Okay, where was the B team?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I don't know. I got nothing to do.

Juan 25:24

And then in 80 or uh plus 73, we had a uh Hannah Cat got a bronze medal.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

And for all y'all want to talk about history, our girls used to run the Pan Am region. Let's be honest. Not recently. We had a not recently. We're this was a post going back about 10 years that we were at someone going to post and have these these stupid arguments about and pretend like you know one person's bat worse than the other, because you know, we care about one country for real and the other country we work in right now, so we can't say what we really feel. You know what I mean? So we kind of make it flip-floppy and kind of sideways, but the reality is it's the same thing. Yeah. Our our girls were way stronger in the Pan Am region. And when you look at and when you look at um the the setup now of the amount of funding these kids are getting and the amount of funding this team is getting, we should be more dominant in this country, and in this region for sure. Stop it.

Juan 26:16

Listen, USA is definitely they haven't even plateaued, they've kind of dropped. And what's scary is what's coming behind them. And and in the in the opposite, you have you know, countries like some of these other South and Central American countries are getting better, of course, Brazil's getting better. Um, I mean, I'm gonna talk about the juniors, you know, and and cadets in a second, but I mean it's it's a little sad for for what's happening in this country right now because it's supposed to be better, and it's not. It's not. And our big guns came out to fight, and they were all unsuccessful, and that's not good.

herb 26:52

So there's no look at the but you guys know this already, and like we keep kind of circling the drain on this one, but I'll say it just so it's said. And and I don't have it, I don't have a dog in the race, an athlete in the race, because I I to be honest, I wouldn't even know what to do with an athlete in this race. But what I will say is the following, which is important to be said. You all all of us have seen great athletes be undercoached and not succeed as a result of it. So we've all been around when we've watched really good athletes who had a lot of potential either be poorly coached, not have a good coach, or be mismanaged by someone in their in their orbit. And those athletes, had they had better coaching, they would have been great athletes. I can say this, at least about one of the athletes that I've seen, that's athletic. Um, and I know we have a mutual friend, I won't mention his name, that was one of the best athletes we ever saw. I mean, physically, jumping, flying, gymnastics, whatever you wanted, and confidence out the yin yang. But he was miscoached. Some of it was internal, he wasn't mature enough, and he never performed at the level he could have performed. And so in this particular situation, there's at least one athlete that's in the in the pool right now that's miscoached, miscoached, misadvised, and doesn't have a guiding force or a guiding light in his life to tell him what he should be focused on, which is training and winning and not TikToking and wick walking. And so that particular athlete, his he will suffer for that. And he he may never ever reach where he should reach because there's no shortage of those athletes in the United States. By the way, in the world, you could probably go to Korea and talk to coaches and say, oh, there was this kid that was really amazing, but he was just poorly coached or didn't get the right counseling. So Mike Tyson without customato never happens. He doesn't happen. Yeah.

Juan 29:00

I mean, listen, to your point, I it's a little self-serving. I'm gonna I'll I'll preface this little statement. Look, I coached a bunch of uh three three women. One is coming back from a knee surgery, one is coming back from a shin surgery that's fought three tournaments this year and lost every tournament, I think two times her first match. And I coached all three of them to the finals. Two of them got gold and one got several. We dropped the final. But like I I'm gonna go just the you know, in what you guys are saying, it was just coaching, right? It was just getting these guys in the right direction. I mean, do they have talent? Yeah, they had some talent, but it wasn't evident recently. None of them, none of them had had that kind of success. And now they're all getting to the finals. Like, that's just about putting people in the right position at the right time and and being there for them. Like, if I could do that with those people, why can't other people do well? Maybe they can't coach, maybe they they can't get the best out of those athletes. And you have I have I have every reason to not get out. I don't speak the language for some of them that don't speak you know perfectly. I to speak, you know, Portuguese and Spanish, you know. Some of them I I don't train with on a on a regular basis. So, like in a strange way, I have every reason not to get through to them and not to get them into the finals, but yet we did. That's that's strange.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

But it's all it's all but it's all scripted. I mean, like look at our look at our 68th division in the quarterfinals where we have the national team head coach and another national team coach coaching the two guys. And um, Calfani has worked with this guy, Gareth, for a very long time. And I'm gonna say this because I took a lot of heat for doing what I was supposed to do in the organization when I worked for them in the plan was the coach by the guys I was coaching at the team trials. I watched this guy coach Michael against him, and all I hear is Garrett's voice, Garrett's voice, Garrett's voice, like full-blown coaching in this match. And meanwhile, on the other side, I hear things like that'll be there. Yep, that'll be there, sitting in silence. That was the most lopsided coach match I've ever seen in my entire life. And don't tell me that that's not detrimental to see the guy that's our national, national team head coach and hear his voice telling the other guy that's in the room with you what to do, way above the level what you're getting from your side. It's scripted. This is stupid at this point. I think I've said it before. It's embarrassing and it's stupid. And I hope all you are sitting there taking a watch to this. You got a top player in a kid like Cal Fani, and he's sitting there being undermined by the system and not giving the same, not giving the same opportunity in the coaching situation. It doesn't make any sense. You got to do better. Take both of them. If you want to complain, then take both of them out of chair. Put someone else in. But you it's lopsided. It it makes no sense in that situation. And obviously, I have a connection with Michael, and obviously I have a connection with Calfani. And from where I sat in the ring and from what I heard, that was a lopsided coach match, and that's what it looked like.

Juan 31:52

Yeah, they should have had listen, those guys train with each other in the same room, and you got the national team coach and you uh the head coach and somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

You're right, it was they should have just said, put Nikki, put Nikki and Lucas in there.

Juan 32:07

Yeah. It doesn't matter. Do something. Do something. Or just sit there like this. Just sit there. I mean, we've done that before, but that's you're right. That was a strong.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

I hope they're getting the same phone calls that I got. You know what I mean? It's silly. It it it was it was it was it was stupid to watch.

Juan 32:20

Yeah. Well, I like I said, I there was uh there's one young girl from Canada that kind of stepped up and she beat the girl that you know I coached in the final. It was close, close rounds, but she she she she stole the rounds and she won. But she's a young girl. I think you know, not exactly where she's from, but she won the 67. She was a little surprising to me, to be honest with you. Um that was pretty cool to I mean, I say cool to see because I just I can appreciate young people coming up and doing a good job, even though I was on the losing end of it. You know what I'm saying? I I can give it up. You know, that's you know, for anyone that thinks that I'm uh I'm trying to I'm a hater. No, when people do well, I shake their hand and say, you got me today, or yeah, I like what you're doing. And people that aren't doing so well, I don't have a problem saying, yeah, you may be a little bit, you may think you're a little bit better than you are. So that's uh that's a little crazy. I something weird. I'm not gonna say the entity's name because I don't want to give them a platform, but don't you think it was interesting that this media outlet that is all over the U.S. and it's all over local tournaments in Texas had nothing to say and weren't even present at the Pentiam Championships? No, no media, no results, no.

herb 33:38

Yeah, I heard I heard the leader of that organization had actually a fist of had asphyxiation syndrome, which is when you can't breathe because he had his mouth so planted to the jock strap of the organization and to certain athletes in it that he couldn't breathe anymore. So he had to actually go and have his mouth physically removed from the anus of the organization, like the human centipede. This guy's been constantly posting stuff, so maybe he finally got tired of it because it was supposed quid pro quote, it was supposed to happen. And I won't mention the organization because um, you know, I I I see their post all the time, and they're the biggest sycophants I've ever seen in my entire life. So maybe it's good they weren't there. Maybe they couldn't afford a ticket to Brazil.

Juan 34:25

Yeah, I just thought that was strange for you know all their media stuff about covering the sport. They didn't cover the biggest event in the region. I thought it was

Juniors Cadets And Brazil’s Culture Machine

Juan 34:34

strange. But there's something I want to talk about before we get talking about the next day, because you know, congratulations to you. I know you you you had a cadet that got a medal, and then you had your under 21 that won a gold. So I think that's pretty cool for you and your athlete. Uh good job, congratulations. But thank you, thank you. What did you think about the listen? The the Pan American Open in Brazil was a regional event. It was Brazil, Chile, Peru, uh, Argentina, and then a few other countries, and of course a lot of Brazilians, just like the US Open is Mexico, Canada, USA, Puerto Rico. It's it's a regional event. But what did you think about I mean, did you we sat there and watched some matches? What did what was your take for you know some of those juniors and cadets that you watched? What did you think?

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Only thing I thought about is where is America? That's what I thought. I I I I watched this as I mean, did our cadets even have an event this year?

Juan 35:31

Hey, you're not gonna like this. I didn't know this until this weekend. Entry fee, hotel and food. Did not pay for the airfare. But think about how many kids that is. That's 20 of the cadets. I mean, that's a lot of hotel and food and registration. And the para and the pumse. Shit.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

You know what's crazy? I walk we were I was going to the metal stands for one of the events, I forget after the cadet day and the junior day or whatever it was. And I see the the the big guys from you know Brazil, a lot of the organization members who you know I know personally a little bit, but I'm watching them have all these cadet and juniors in the hallway, and they're talking to them like this is their national team, talking to them, giving them feedback, telling them, you know, encouragement, they're all clapping, they're all cheering in the hallway, they're all together, and this is like 45-50 kids all in the hallway, just listening to like the feedback and takeaways from this event. And and again, I don't speak Portuguese obviously, but just the feeling and seeing that level of like connectivity. And meanwhile, our cadets didn't have an event. This would have been a perfect prime event for them to be there. Even anyone under 21, this would have been a perfect prime event to come get some matches outside of like the realm of things you do. Even some of our national team members that were there should have been afforded the opportunity to stay and fight one more day because you're already there. Go get some extra work. We do the bare minimum and then cry and complain like we're we're we're somebody and we're we got second best. We got second best for purely numbers. We got second best because the level in the Panama region, to be honest, and I'm being real, is not that freaking high when you look over at the Europeans and it's gross. It's gross.

Juan 37:16

So TJ, you know, they had a staff for the cadet and for the junior. You you know, I was there. I was there on Saturday, I stayed specifically for that. Myself, Diego, and um, and Coach Erickson. We all wear our Brazil stuff. We had a job. We went, we would sat down and listened to the coaches and would give them feedback and talk to them because we want to figure out how we can help them develop. And the focus was communication. How do we help them communicate better? What's what's the structure? What what do we do and what are they doing? Like that's what our job was. Of course, to look at people. I saw a badass 63 kid that I like a lot. He fought the he fought the world junior world champion, you know, to a 7-7 first round, then he lost the second round pretty clean. But our job was to look for kids, watch how they interact, and more importantly, watch the coaches. That's how it's that's how you build again.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

It's not perfect. But the morale part, but the morale part, building the morale of the country, building the connectivity between the bottom, the cadets, and juniors to the seniors. These kids look up to these seniors, these kids watch these seniors compete. These kids cheer on these seniors, they see the the wins and the losses and the tough moments. And you know what's even more crazy is most of the those uh big guys in Brazil were there on the junior cadet day watching as well, like and encouraging and like cheering for the country. This country loves taekwondo and it loves its taekwondo athletes. Like it's yeah, it's so gross. And I'm not again, Coach Renault, you know, I love you and I love everything that you've done, and I see how much and how important you are to Brazil, and I see how many things that you've helped implement and guide and like are in the chair and like are a part of it. But it's a it's sad for me as an American coach. It's so freaking sad to watch the difference, to feel the difference. And I gotta, and we're sitting back and and and watching our kids being given the bare minimum opportunities, not being funded, not being supported, not really being taught the way of what this sport is supposed to look like, what the the what pride in your nation actually feels like. There's none of that, it's all gone, it doesn't exist. And I blame every single one of you guys that have connectivity to the national team program. You're the problem. You're the problem. Nobody else. You're in the room when they send you these emails and they tell you these kids aren't gonna be funded, when they tell you what they're gonna do with these kids, when they tell you what they're gonna do with the national team, when I watch you guys sit back and remove yourself from situations that you know you probably were better fit for those athletes just because the organization says so, you are the problem and nobody else. Period. That's why. That's why you guys have you guys have a voice, you guys have a say, you guys take your playing ticket, fly over there and coach those guys because it benefits you a little bit because you have guys on the national team. You don't care anything about this country in the development. So stop saying it, stop pretending, stop acting like it matters. You're just in the room because it benefits you, and it's sad to see that to where we got into with any of the coaching level in this country. Period. It's your fault.

Juan 40:22

Wow. I mean, TJ. At the US Open, we could have done the same thing. So, okay, you could we can make the argument, well, it's in Brazil, and they all stayed there. But you know what? They all stayed there, and you're right, the big guys, all in the guys, not all, but like I would say 90% of the national team stayed there for the junior cadets to do exactly what you said, to support them, to give them, you know, to talk to them, to give them speeches, to give them high fives, and they build a culture. That's why all those kids were there the day before watching all their superstars fight. We didn't do that in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

They paid their way to the U.S. Open. What are we even talking about? They paid for the entry fee to the U.S. Open.

Juan 41:01

And and so it's funny because the United States had a chance to do that, but the culture is not there. Going back to what you said, the culture is not there at all. It requires too much work. Yeah, and and and we listen, we've built that culture. I say we, we, we have built that culture, and it's it didn't magically appear because it didn't happen seven years ago, or else Brazil would have always been good. We built this culture into what it is right now. To your point, you're right. Uh now that you when you you know talked about it like that and articulated like that, you're right, TJ. There's a lot of people in this country that all whisper and don't like this and don't like this and don't like this, but they'll be the first ones to say, congratulations, the first one to like, the first one to say amazing things in social media. Like you're part of the problem. Like if you're not really calling them out. And again, you don't have to be an asshole. I'm not expecting people to fight the fight at me and you do and you grab press, right? I I don't expect them to fight the fight, but at the same time, stand for something. At the same time, respectfully disagree, at the same time, respectfully voice your opinion that you tell me, that you tell you, that you tell all your little buddies in private. If not, you're part of the problem because you're not fixing it, you're just going along. And I think that's a sad thing because if you can't be a person of character, of true character, then you're you're not a person of character. That means you're a liar. You're a liar. Like I said, you could do it respectfully, and you don't have to be like us, or just be quiet.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

How about that?

Juan 42:39

Or just how say less, my boy.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Or just don't say anything. Yeah, or just keep

Speaking Up Ethics And Voting With Dollars

SPEAKER_02 42:44

it to yourself.

herb 42:44

You know, like I don't expect anybody to fight the fights of everybody in this room. But you know, there comes, you know, this has been a something I've kind of wrestled with and had to think about a lot. And I think the reality is that you have to think about what your role and your responsibility is. And so there's a couple different levels of this. Number one, the reason I am the way I am in this particular situation is I have sat at those tables, I've sat at the highest tables, and I have talked and done what I needed to do to make things work for the organization. I watched USA Taekwondo, which I sat on its board, W, what is the thing called? The WT, which I sat on their boards and was the chairman of their committees. And I've watched these guys lose their mission and their statement. And then I dealt with the U.S. Olympic Committee and the Olympic Council of Asia and helped them grow sport. So I have an affirmative obligation since I took the benefit of helping and doing things and take took plane tickets and went over the world as a result of taekwondo. I have an obligation to now, when I see it going astray, address it and address it in a very verbal and and public forum. But before that, before I had that obligation, even when I was a young athlete, I had a like coach Moreno and I had a justice button. And because of that, as a young athlete, as a coach, as an athlete, I spoke up, as Coach Morano knows, early on before I was on anything, and created chaos and change back then because I felt that was right. I started right Taekwondo to become a better person. And in becoming a better person, I felt it was important to maintain an ethics and a moral and a certain stance. And you have to speak out. That's what we do. And one of the guys who used to speak about this all the time was JP Che, right? And he felt that that was Taekwondo's thing. You had to be a moral warrior, you had to be an ethical warrior. And people could feel about that particular stance one way or another, and depending on your actions. The second part comes though, hold on. Second part becomes with regular people. Regular people who drink from the well of taekwondo and started it for the same reasons we all started it for, and did it for the same reasons we all started it for, have the same obligation. Now they don't necessarily have the obligation to be the asshole because that's my obligation, but they definitely have an obligation to speak up when they see wrong or not participate or vote with their dollars. They absolutely do. There's a level in between, though. There's the person who knows more, should do more, and doesn't do anything. And into that category fall many. And the way they get in that category is they keep continuing to take, as you guys have been talking about, they take the perks, they take the plane tickets, and they continue to take them. Jay Warwick, and to name uh many among that list. And when you have that obligation, you have an obligation larger than most because you've drank from the well, you've you take from the wellspring, you've picked the fruit from the tree, and when it goes astray, you say nothing or do nothing. In between, they're finally the guys you're talking about is the average listener, the person who's afraid, doesn't want to say anything. You don't want to say anything, don't say anything. On the same token, don't be clapping people on the back and shaking hands either, because that you can't do.

Juan 46:06

I'm gonna say this, and TJ, you may or may not know this, but I'm gonna say this for our viewers. You're right. I know you know people can say whatever they want about you, Her, but I know you since I was 15 years old, and you've always been that guy. When nobody knew you and nobody cared about you, and you had no clout to where you are right now, you've always, and maybe that's why you have not climbed the ladder the way other people have climbed the ladder, but you're you you sleep good at night, and I will always applaud you for all those things. Listen, I was 20 years old and I I boycotted a world championship team because they weren't doing the right thing by bringing the right coaches, and I boycotted. I was one of I was the only one, and so I did a lot of these things before it became popular to do. Listen, I don't go on coaches, I I wouldn't wouldn't be on a coaching staff no matter what happens under the certain under the circumstances right now. And the people that like TJ, like you said, the people that are are are co-signing and and high-fiving and doing all that stuff, they're they're they're part of the problem. We gotta fix this. And it's it's it's not something that you know we've just decided you know we're gonna do recently or lately. You know, it's it's something that we've done our whole lives. TJ, me and you took, we gave up money to do what we believe was right on the Olympic and in Olympic training. We gave up trips to Europe. We gave up money, we gave up money for training partners to just say, you know what? It's right to stay home. It's wrong to take that money, it's wrong to go over there, it's wrong to bring other people there for this vacation. And we said, we don't need nothing. We literally said, we don't need one filthy penny from you. We paid for our own way, we slept at our hotels, we paid for our own food. We've done that. I boycotted young standard for things forever. You didn't take money at your own, you know, expense. It's crazy then to hear people that lead organizations to me question you. What has Her Perez done? He hasn't done shit for 20 years, he's an old man.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

I'm like, he's a guy that haven't done shit their whole lives that aren't coaches, that don't even know what's going on.

Juan 48:18

This is a guy that you yeah, I just I I I can't stand when people say these things just because they they're they're putting out a few posts right now, or they have tournaments right now, or they they're they get a go to a national team coaching staff because you've been around for the last I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt, the benefit of the doubt the last five years. Sit down and shut up and say less because you're part of the problem. You're not the solution, you're part of the problem, and that's why people will never remember your name.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

These guys take tickets, go on these trips with these juniors, takes tickets and go on trips with these juniors, knowing their tickets are paid for, and know the entire junior team is there not being paid for. Like what? So that means you're more like the staff is more important than the athlete? That makes no sense. That that's the most that's the most backwards math ever. But none of them say anything.

Juan 49:09

Yeah, because they get theirs.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

You seen any posts? Oh, yeah, I think the the junior team should be funded. Oh, yeah, you know, it's unfortunate. Is it not unfortunate? You can't tell me, it's right. Some of you work on these these these halfway teams that are are funded teams that are paying for athletes to go to Europe and and compete, and they're they're funded, and you're being funded to go over there with them, and you say nothing about the actual people that are making the national team, that are that have have have gone through the entire system, uh, states, regionals, nationals, team trials, whatever you want to say, and make the team get nothing. That's crazy. And then and then we start pro teams and travel teams, and they're funded, and you're a part of those, and you you say nothing about the kids that are actually funded are in the middle of the mix. Come on, man, stop it. Yeah, it's crazy. Stop it, stop it, cut it out. Y'all, it's it's it's too much at this point, it's too much, and it's too much coming from people that swear up and down that they care about this country. No, you care about your access, and that's what it comes down to. And it's just interesting that the people like like like Grandmaster, people like Coach Ren, all the the the higher level people in this country that have done things at the Olympic level, that have coached at the Olympic level, that have fought at the Olympic level, somehow, somehow always end up disenfranchised from this organization. You tell me crazy, and all the Olympians, yeah. I think everybody everybody, you got you got coaches, you have coaches. We I know we're talking about we'll get to the Europeans hopefully before we run out of time, but you have athletes and coaches, even in the Pan A region, showing up to the Pan A region, a coach from our country, uh coaching athletes that are from our country for other countries winning divisions.

herb 50:52

Yeah, it's crazy, and and so you got I and I'm the next thing I'm gonna say because it was something I did like a little deep dive into a uh a thing in my past, and then I realized there was an individual in my life um that I won't mention, and I realized that that individual had exited every individual in his life that had achieved more than him. And when I thought about it a little bit, that's USA Taekwondo. They can't have certain people in the room, and the reason they can't have those people in the room is it diminishes them because as soon as you walk in the room, you're the guy that actually is the guy, not the guy next to the guy that could have been the guy. And so that's a really sad state of affairs because I always like to be in rooms where I'm the least accomplished guy in the room. I enjoy friendships with people who have done so much way more than I have and are way smarter and way more successful because that's where I learn and I grow. But in this particular organization's case, I challenge you to find anyone in the organization that's done more than the person that's sitting in the chair. The sole exception to that is the new coach they hire. And you know why he's in a room? Because he can't speak English. So he won't want anything. He can't understand a language enough to get anything, and he's just happy to get the one thing he wants, which is a green card. And I'm not dissing him. You know, he's he's an opportunist too, as you should be as an athlete. You know, stand on your business, as they say. But at the end of the day, think about that for a minute. You don't have an individual in that room, Olympian, past Olympian, whatever, that has got a performance. And there's a reason, because as soon as we enter the room, people like us, and I don't want to be in that room, by the way, everybody else in that room doesn't matter. Their heads turn to us and not to them. And they know that. So that's just a reality. You don't have to.

Juan 53:00

Tina, you're on fire today. TJ, you're on fire with all these points. And to your, you know, to your point, that's a good, you know, we've we've seen this weight problem before. We've the funding has just gone spiraling down. It's just we've seen it before. And you're right.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

It's the twilight movie.

Juan 53:15

It's only every top person gets disenfranchised from Olympic gold medalist to a world champion to you know Olympic medalists.

herb 53:24

It just seems like they just they didn't even put us in the record book. They don't even they have a record book.

Juan 53:30

I wasn't even talking about us yet. I was talking about the company.

herb 53:33

I mean, like when you forget your past, you're doomed to repeat your your past, right? You you forgot your history. You forgot that you stand. I stand on the shoulders of John Holloway and guys that fought in the original old G, regardless of their outcomes and their medal count. Mike Warren, John Holloway, Greg Fierce, cats like this, Sonny Graff on the women's side. They did the dance back in the day when they didn't even understand taekwondo. They were doing karate. And they were doing karate against Koreans that were doing better karate. And they they fought the battles and they fought without chest protectors and heads.

Juan 54:11

We're doing karate now.

herb 54:12

Yeah, and back to karate, back karate. But the uh the reality is that they I recognize and respect them. Scott Rohr, John Lee, right, Naeem Hassan. The list goes on of guys who without them there wouldn't be a me because I wouldn't have anything to think about. Now, I didn't forget them. I knew their names before I stepped in the arena. I respected them. I knew their records before I before I even stepped into the arena. And if I see them, I had the good fortune to see Mike Warren at the Black Belt Hall of Fame thing. And I walked up to him and I was like, sir, I've always wanted to meet you. And he's like, Herb, I know you. And we had this great conversation that I'll never forget because this guy was a legend. He was the guy that beat Korea and they wouldn't let the Koreans said he beat them. The crowd booed when the Koreans raised they raised his hands. That's back when the Koreans were cheating so badly, they cheated so bad. They didn't care. Yeah, I don't even think they watched the match, they just raised a hand. So you got to remember who who who put you in a place where you have the stuff you have. Now, if you forget that, whether it's your parents, you're whatever, then you're doomed to repeat the failures of the past. So anyway, enough of that nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

It was a sad, like again, I don't mean to sound dramatic. I know most people think I am dramatic. I can be slightly dramatic, especially when it's stuff that I care about. But it was a sad weekend for us in America, watching that Panama region and just watching and then having, and I stayed for the cadets, and I stayed for the under 21 and seeing us being just like underrepresented in a situation where it's a it's a good opportunity to grow and fight and get some matches and and and be in the room with these kids that like I've I've I mean you've seen we talk about Enrique and all these guys starting from when they were younger all the way through. Some of these kids in the room are gonna be what's next. Why are kids out in the room? Why are kids out of the room?

The Ladder From State To Pan Ams

herb 56:01

Can I can I ask you both a question? And this is like kind of old school mentality, right? So and I have this conversation with my son about soccer. If you want to be the best at anything, you want to be great, that's a different path than being good at something. If you want to be great, you gotta first be the best person in the room. You then gotta be the best person in the dojong, then you gotta be the best person in the city, then you gotta be the best person in the state, then you obviously have to be the best person in your country. The very next step, just so we're all very clear, is the Pan Am region. You gotta be the best now, you shouldn't even be thinking about the Olympics. You shouldn't, that word shouldn't be escaping your mouth unless you're the best person in the Pan Am region. Now, the people that are the best in the Pan Am region, Brazil, whatever, whatever, they can start thinking about the Olympics. If you can't get out of the Pan Am region, you gotta hope for a good draw. I didn't think like that. I the Pan Am region for me was a regional court, was a was like the state championship. I didn't expect to lose the Pan Am. I expected to win it. The only quote I had one competitor from Canada that was a guy that I would have to be concerned about because he had a lot of experience, gone to a lot of world championships, and he was a good fighter. Other than that, I fought at the Pan Am's. I didn't worry about anybody I fought. I I it was a it was a regional. I worried about the world championship, the world cups, that was it. That that was it. I we didn't, and when if we don't get back to the mentality of understanding the steps, and who the other guy that reminded me of this was Dr. Capner. He was I sent an athlete over to him, and it's the story's worth 10 seconds, but I send the athlete to him, and the kid walks in and he goes, he goes, So what what are your goals? And and Capner asked him, and he goes, Oh, I'm gonna be world champion. And he goes, You're gonna be what? Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna want to be world champion. He goes, Have you won the state championships yet? Have you won the national championships? Have you won the panette? First, you gotta win, like you gotta you gotta win the first thing first. You're not gonna walk out of your gym, nobody has, by the way, and become Olympic champion. It doesn't work that way. Well, maybe Coach Moreno.

Juan 58:16

Yeah, you said that. Yeah, that was me. TJ, you said that going back to the Grand Prix Challenges. Like, we got people going to Grand Prix Challenges that haven't won a regional open. And Jung, to your point, I swear on uh whatever you need me to swear on. Like in our pre-meeting talk, I was like, listen, this is our home. We are a world power. We have to win this overall championship. We have to win the men's, women's, and the overall championship. It's it's not like we we need to. We have to. Like, and to your point, TJ, your point, you know, Grandmaster. If we can't win this, what what the hell are we talking about? How can I go win a grand prix or a world championship or an Olympic medal? Stop. Like, even the Chino. He's won uh uh Pan Am Games multiple times, he's won you know world championship medals multiple times, and he didn't win the Olympics, but he got a bronze medal, and he's a top-level person. So I just think that we gotta have that kind of stuff or at least have the pedigree. And right now we're a little short.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

I say that I I've literally going back to my time with my WCAP guys, I would tell them, I'm like, first of all we gotta be the best in our country, obviously. And then it any development, you gotta be the best in the region. The goal has to be to be the best in the region. And I know we're talking about from an overall team standpoint. I never sit here and claim that I won every single medal. I never sit here and claim that I was always the best in the room. I know I was competitive, I know I always had a shot to win, I know I was in the mix, and where we are now, it it makes no sense. We're we're we're looking past this because when they when we first started this whole thing, when they first came in, remember the Pan Am Chip wasn't important. It was so easy that it wasn't important, it was irrelevant to the thing. That's what they said. That's what they said. That's what they said, that's what they said, and and now and now we've so far skipped that that these countries have been able to build themselves up in this country. We're losing big divisions, we're losing big divisions, we're losing uh situations where our athletes should be better than they are. I'm sorry, I don't care. I I like I said, Coach Reyno, I love you. I'm and and I and all the all the things that uh you're doing with Brazil, but for the amount of money that we're spending, for the amount of support that these kids are getting, for the amount of traveling and training that they're doing, we should be better. When our generation and when I was fighting, we didn't have all this money. We got our grand prize paid for. I got very little shots at most of these international guys. Every time I went to get a shot at them, it was mostly at the big show. It was at the one, but you didn't matter.

Juan 1:00:51

You you got that medal, you got that that funding when you were ranked in the top 32. You got that when you were an Olympic level athlete, an Olympic medalist. Not before. Not this, we're gonna pay you to to see, we're gonna pay you to come to the academy, give you a stipend, take you on all these trips. Like, you didn't have any of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Nope.

Juan 1:01:10

Like they've got way more now.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

So, yeah, so in comparison, for for for to answer the question, and someone asked me, what do I expect? I expect for us to be better from the amount of money and budget that we're spending, for the amount of time that they have put into quote unquote these kids and went here and this grand pre-challenge and this grand pre-challenge and this and this and this and this, and all this training and all these hooplays and uh things that we're we're jumping through and doing, I expect us to be the best in the region, is what I expect. I expect America to be better than every single other country in the room.

herb 1:01:40

I think it's just but I think it's I think it's I think it's simpler than that, and that's why I like Don Lewis if that's his name. Um it's just a numbers thing. So if you take the population of the United States, and then you take the amount of people that do our sport, and you look at those numbers and you look at the amount of money we spend, we should absolutely have better results. That it's an investment thing. It's either you're misusing the money, you have the wrong people in charge, or you have the wrong coaches. Because we have the talent, we have the body type, we have the nutrition, we have the education, we have parents with the ways and means, we have people in the pipeline that aren't performing. So that's the system's broken. It's not like we don't have raw talent. It's not we we excel in a variety of other sports, we excel at the Olympics. So the question then becomes what's the problem? Where's the breakdown? Because we don't have an excuse. In a country of 330 million people, we have no excuse not to be competitive in this sport, especially when we were historically competitive in it with less athletic people. So at the end of the day, there's no question as to where we should be, and I don't why people don't see that problem. There's no reason to make an excuse. When you go from being the top in your regional Olympic committee, the Pan Am, to being not the top in that, that's a problem. When you go to expecting to hopefully make a podium and celebrating 32nd place and 42nd place and what whatever, where you hope to, you know, there are countries that have never won a medal in anything. We're not that country. We had a history of winning. We're not winning anymore. But

Talent Exodus And Europe’s Warning Signs

herb 1:03:28

you know what?

Juan 1:03:28

I'm gonna say this too. Like maybe this is a good trans, you know, transition into the Europeans. We've we've you alluded to it, TJ. We've lost talent. We've had American kids that have, you know, backgrounds in other countries, and they've decided to go fight for those countries, and their coaches have followed them. I mean, you think about that. Like we had this, you know, JC Bassett, you know, she's fighting for Costa Rica. She could have easily been the United States person. Easily. We have Selena, you know, I'm sorry, Selena, um, Camila Saline just won the European. She beat the current, she beat the current world champion. She beat the current world champion. You want to know the score? The first round was 15 to 2. She gave two two come downs. And the second round, when I saw it, it was 22 to 5. Think about that. She's not beating a world championship. She's whooping that chick's ass. That girl's from Turkey. She can fight. She's good. And Camila goes and waxes her like that. These are the kind of people. Ava Lee, who wins almost everything in the Panama region. You know, Allison, you know, who fights for an African country. We have boys that fight, other boys that fight for Sierra Leone that are talented, you know, I mean, that could have been in our pipeline. You know, we have people that fight in Puerto Rico that should be in our pipeline. We have people that go to Mexico that could be in our pipeline. In Cuba, blah, blah, blah. It goes on and on and on. And that mass exodus has happened recent. There's always been a few here. I'm not saying that there hasn't been. You know, we go back to Greg Tubbs' uh kids. They fought for Cambod Cambodia, you know, back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

And you know what? You know what's even worse? What's even worse? I'm watching it. So we're talking about seniors transitioning. I'm watching children switch countries. Right? Switch countries. Whole bunch of Miami. Whole bunch of changes. I'm watching kids at the bottom leave our country and go somewhere else. But they're going to Jamaica, they're going to but again, and then you look at the top level, like I said, I'm not gonna keep harping this for a second, and now we can switch to the Europeans, but they're they're they're strength, they're putting a stranglehold on any kind of development. You have a 62 girl in your room that didn't show up, and you didn't call the number two because you didn't care to. Like, because what she don't deserve a shot? Tell me, tell me, tell me. I need I need an answer for stuff like that. Why, why, why we have all this talent, all these people. They're choke, they're choking our system. We're we're our kids. Kids are leaving the country. Forget the seniors. Forget it all. Our kids are leaving the country and going to fight for other places. And these coaches are doing it. So all these coaches that are allowing them to do it is either one or two things. Either they don't believe in the system, or they're just so selfish that they want access to these events that they're willing to let these kids leave a system that maybe they could develop in. But I'm going to go on the ladder and say, A, they don't believe in the system. And B, the system doesn't work for them. And that's why they're leaving. So so I was going to say, right?

Juan 1:06:29

Am I wrong? No, I think they're just like, you know what, we we don't believe in it, and we'd rather go and fund ourselves in many cases. And we can stick with them and we can help them in their development. And if they go somewhere, they go somewhere, but at least we feel good about our decision. And that's listen, I I mean, I go back to a podcast I did a while back. I know nothing is perfect. I know it's a difficult thing, but we've we've I mean we can compare this era to that era, these athletes to that athletes, but the truth of the matter is, like you said, we you're they choked the system, it's sparring out of control. I don't know, like it's a sad place, you know. And this this last tournament, the juniors and this, it it was not good for for us over here. It it's it's not a good feeling. Like I said, I I know I'm lucky, you're right, TJ. I work for another country and I got things going in the right direction. I've got leadership that believes in me and trusts me. I'm working on my next camp. I mean, it's amazing. You should see the stuff we worked on today. And I'm just so excited about it. And I think I know the athletes are, and the people have a sense of hope. You saw it. I wasn't even standing there with you. You saw those kids in the hall, you saw it in those kids in the stands, you saw it, those kids cheering, you saw those people staying around, you just saw it in a snapshot, and you didn't-that's all you need to see to know it's going in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

And meanwhile, we have this max mass exodus. Literally, people walking away from the system and just choosing not to be a part. But also, like I said, I there's only one group of people to blame, and that's anyone who has access to these people that are making these decisions. Anyone who has access to these teams where we're we're going on and getting our trips paid for and like coaching kids that are unfunded and being in shares that we probably shouldn't be in, and and allowing people to be on the staff and pay their own way and not letting them coach their kids who probably have a better shot. It is it is the most ridiculous thing ever. Don't tell me our national team coaches that you've chosen are better than some of these home coaches that should be with our guys. Don't tell me that these kids are in a better situation, hearing something differently. Forget who you are, forget what you know. If you hear something from someone every single day, the exact same way, and you go to this event and someone's trying to figure you out, and you're trying to figure them out, you can't be successful. It's too difficult. It's it's impossible damn near sometimes. That's one thing in my career I never ever had to deal with. And I got my one shot at the Olympic Games and didn't get a second go at it. And it wasn't the gold medal, but I followed our country's status and made sure we got on the podium. We did that. We made sure that we got the job done. Was it perfect? No. Was it easy? No. Did we make a lot of tough decisions? Yes. But we got it done, and that's what the goal is at the end of the day. The scoreboard is the Olympic Games. I understand that, but we did everything to get to the point where we had a shot at that day. And right now we're not. And before we go on, like, congratulations to all the athletes that did get medals at the Padam Championships. I'm not discounting getting third, I'm not discounting getting second. I'm not discounting having a decent day. What I'm discounting is the system that got us there because a lot of you guys deserve a little bit better. A lot of you guys should have gone a lot further. A lot of you guys were not in the best situation when you went out there to the ring in front of some of these guys that are with people that know them day in and day out, that are giving them the best information and the connectivity is there. You weren't getting that, you don't get that, and that's because of the organization, the way it's structured, and that's because people sitting back and letting it happen. So, yes, second place isn't good enough. Nobody cares about second place. I'm sorry, nobody cares about third place. I get it, and especially in this situation where we have all the talent we're talking about, when we're when we when we can go and do better, when we're keeping people out of events and not sitting number twos, when we have our big 67s not there, like don't, don't you you can't. So, congratulations to the athlete, that's one. But again, before we go on, it's you guys' fault. All you single coaches, all you guys have access to this room, to these monthly calls and all that stuff, all you guys clapping on the internet and hitting likes and fake cheering team USA and then going around a corner and talking to me and talking to this guy, telling them like it's not good enough, it's bad, it's this, they're this way, they're that way. Shut up. I'm over it. Don't talk to me about it no more. You see me? Just say hi. Don't talk about it no more because it's silly at this point. It's silly and it's you fault. It's your fault. Your fault. Anyway, sorry.

Juan 1:10:44

Yeah. Now let's let's let's let's kinda just I mean, the Europeans are going on right now, and we'll just kind of transition there just for a couple minutes because we obviously just the first day passed, but I just again I want to give a kudos to Camila Selene and her father, you know, Gergai and his her brothers who are fighting today or tomorrow. Um amazing performance. The European champions is difficult. I don't know if you saw the 67 girl from Greece. They have an Iranian coach over there, and uh the 67 girl is gonna be a problem heading into the next year, into the Olympic Games. She just beat the one of the Martin girls, the two-time world champion. She beat her in the finals over there. So that girl is young and coming up, and she does well on all the systems, whether it's KP, Dado, or Waychamp. She's putting up wins. So, you know, big kudos to her. I forgot her first name, to be honest with you. Um, and yeah, I mean, that you know, the European.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:38

The Europeans look scary. It looks scary.

Juan 1:11:40

It's scary, but but but Russia's not there. And Russia's not there. Which is weird. They're allowed to fight, but I guess they didn't get visas, which that makes that tournament a whole lot less scary, to be honest with you, because everybody knows the Russians are extremely formidable. But yeah, when I look at some of those categories, they're bigger than ours. You know, I mean, they're quite bigger than ours, but I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

USA still gets number two overall ranking, right? Number two team, best team. USA's number two. Like, come on. You know, think about what you're saying right now. It it it's absolutely silly. We like again, I'm sorry, I'm going back to these guys. I I just I just can't get off of it tonight, you know? So I when you talk about this is Grandmaster's section, this is when we talk about I blame, I blame WT as well. I got you, I blame PAC2 as well. It's a joke, it's a joke. We're we're we're feeding the media things that aren't true. Meanwhile, this part of the country is far behind except for the standouts. And right now, the standout is Brazil. Right now, the standout is Brazil. Brazil's leaving this region and going doing things at a world level that we haven't been able to do in this country.

Juan 1:12:48

So that's the reality. You know, I'm gonna go back to the President's Cup last year when I think we had I think it was six out of eight mayo you know uh finals and blah blah blah. But think about that, man. We won 50% of the gold medals available. I don't care if you're in Africa, you know, Egypt and and these countries are having a hard time doing that. I don't care if you're in Asia, Korea, and Iran are not doing that to each other. In in Europe, you know, Russia, as good as I just said they are, they're not doing that to everybody. Like in our region, we want 50% of the gold medals and had five silvers. That's crazy, bro. That's that's like off the charts. Pretty good. I don't even know. Can we do better? I think we could probably win two more. I think our fifty-seven has a damn good chance to bring a cloud, and I think our 67 could probably do it too. You're still here? I see. So anyway, I I mean we could talk and we we're well over an hour right now, so and how we beat up this this panel. But I think it was first of all, TJ, you know, you made some amazing, amazing points. You articulated them well, you know. I mean, I'll just say, like I said, you know, I don't expect people to fight our fight, you know. I like that post you put today on social media about respect. Like if you respect me and and you're gonna go hang with someone that's you know doesn't respect me or or has actually wronged me and act like you can sit with their with them and act like it's okay, then I gotta question me in your friendship. I gotta question, you know, that respect that you have for me. Because you might not you must not have that much respect that you're able to go sit in that chair with that person that's you know done something personal to me or X, Y, Z. But like I said, I don't uh nobody has to fight our fights. But when you go out there and you do all the little claps and you don't speak your mind, then I have to question how much respect I have for you as a person. Because, you know, for all this, you know, trying to you know stand up for what's good and what's right and stuff like that, it's a lie. So you made some great points, TJ, and I and I I couldn't agree more. So we'll see what people do. Like I said, people are are fickle and yeah, but I'm just trying to do this, and yeah, but I'm just trying to do that. Just do less. Or just don't put yourself in there. Or just do what.

Final Thoughts Respect And Wrap

herb 1:16:06

We have a beautiful samba samba from the beautiful island country of Brazil. I know it's not an island, but it's got the beautiful beach and beautiful women, and it's got the carneval. So I will say that the song was a very unique creation and it speaks highly, and it wasn't done on TikTok, that's all I'm saying. And we are out of the day, I'm gonna take a look at the big thing.