Not My Circus, Not My Monkeys, but I know the Clowns

Eighteen new Taekwondo clubs created in the final 48 hours before a voting deadline is the kind of detail that makes you stop and ask one question: are we building the sport, or gaming the system? We get blunt about AAU Taekwondo politics in North Carolina, how “paper clubs” and stacked votes can undermine election integrity, and why that behavior doesn’t just pick winners and losers in a meeting. It reshapes who gets access, who gets heard, and what young athletes learn is “normal.”

We also zoom out to the bigger leadership problem that spans USA Taekwondo and the wider tournament ecosystem: rules for everyone else, loopholes for insiders. If organizations want strict spectator behavior, SafeSport compliance, and polished public messaging, the people in charge have to meet an even higher standard behind the scenes. We talk about hypocrisy, complacency, and the social pressure to keep smiling, keep shaking hands, and keep “playing the game” even when you know the process is wrong.

Then we bring in the history that explains the anger. A surprise guest helps us revisit a defining 1988 trials moment and why fairness, referee trust, and moral courage still echo decades later. We close by switching gears to the global fight scene with reactions to the Asian Championships and a look ahead to the Grand Prix in Rome, including the competitive level, ranking implications, and Olympic qualification realities.

If you care about Taekwondo ethics, athlete development, and leadership that actually earns respect, listen through to the end. Subscribe, share this with a coach or teammate, and leave a review with the question you want us to tackle next.

Transcript

Opening Rap And Warning Signs

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Not my circus, not my monkey, but I know all the clowns and they looking real spunky. Yeah, the A, you back in town. Tryna game the system, tryna take the crown. They want that viral tax and the flags, but they can't move right. They just wanted the gas. Yeah, they pranks. Yeah, they play while the real ones pay every single day. Look at the ringmasters sitting in the state. Living off the profits that the real talent made. They ain't got rhythm, they ain't got soul, just a pile of weak news, tryna lose control. Stared of the future, scared of the grind, let the dignity and the morals behind. Look that fake old tower, wall the wall, but they can't talk, slick when the curtains fall. I'm about the court, still cat by respectin' the real damn sport. All that smiling for the camera, all that stage up talk, put the work on I wanna press the wall. Ah, I see the string, I see the grin, I see the same old skin tryna pull me in. Keep your badges, keep your crown when the truth rolls up, it's tearing that down. I'ma surf it, not my monkey, but I know all the clowns and they look at real funky. Tryna game the system, tryna take the ground. They want that Bible dance, stuff in the flags, but they can't move right. They just want the gas here friends. Yeah, they play while the real ones fake every single day. New stoop, same trick, same old grin. Same bag on handshake, same paper, then win. They parade through the halls with the polished eye. The next surprise when the good ones dry. The real kids starvin for a shot. The breeze by the fake ones team and the chamber steep. Every little flavor got a hidden card. Every trophy polish by the time they lost. You can keep your mascot, keep your little joke. What's in the booky signs and the diamond nose? When they truth knocks off, when they lights go cold, and every borrowed crown turns rustic gold. The joke ain't funny when the check gets doom the room gets muddy. That's the whole card house coming down. Not my circuits, not my monkey, but I know all the clowns and they lookin' real spunky. They want the bottle down, the spoop and the flags, but they can't move right. They just want the guy. Let they play while the real ones rise. Every single day. Uh uh-uh, no, let the clouds dog loud, the truth stay on me.

Tuesday Is Truth Day

herb 3:05

So it's time again for the warehouse 15. It must be Monday. Oops, it's Tuesday. Tuesday is truth day. It's the truth sayers, and we're here to help you understand why, where, and how. I just oh, by the way, I heard that the president of the kooky one was here, and I was invited to go down, and I said, no, thank you. But we'll talk about, we'll get to that later. How are we doing today?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Who's gonna start us off? What's up? I'm good, I'm good. Actually, you said we didn't get it going on Monday. I'm glad we made it on Tuesday.

herb 3:37

Oh, wait, hold on. We got a surprise

Surprise Guest And Old Wounds

herb 3:40

guest. Oh no, he figured it out. What's up, sir?

SPEAKER_04 3:48

You don't have headphones.

herb 3:50

You got your headphones? Do you have your earpods?

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Yeah, but they don't Apple, and this is a LG, so it doesn't like it.

herb 3:58

Oh, you're on your computer. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

But that's what I can hear you guys. What's up? More than talking some shit about listen, man.

Juan 4:06

I don't want to wait for you to get out of this. I don't know what you're talking about. I talk shit about you. It's time for the reckoning.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

He's uh he's too old. He's out of the game.

herb 4:18

Old it's all true. It's all true, but I didn't say that.

Juan 4:24

I'm not even thinking it's a good one. Don't blitz. Young, don't blame me, man. This guy talks more shit about you than you even know, man. I I defend you left to right. How can you say that? I will I watched him personally kick you in the face in practice. He said, never, ever.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Please, what? First of all, none of that is true. I give him his props.

herb 4:53

He there was a moment he's he's actually responsible for me not making that team. He kicked me in, he kicked me in the face when we were warming up five times, not once, not twice. You told me that. He couldn't eat he couldn't find enough humility to not hurt me before I went, and he's like, dude, I'm like, what my hands down? So you know, I'm not blaming anybody because I accept the blame.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

But I'm just gonna say, I was that pissed that I was not that I've been politically excluded from those trials, right? Truth. And the guy, Craig Baker, who I beat four times went on Olympics or departments metal. So then there was this other young upstart. That's my pain, man. The pain, the pain goes on.

herb 5:42

But there was this young upstart that ruined the day for everybody to start off. I can't remember what his name was, Juan Colmey Pan. You know, he would he upset the apple cart. He couldn't just do what he was supposed to do, just go quietly into the night. He had everything and you had a you had to change the world.

Juan 6:01

Yo, 40 fucking years later, I haven't changed. How about those apples?

herb 6:06

Oh, dude. Well, I saw a picture of uh of uh Daysung at the uh Cookie Wan president thing, so he must be rehabilitated. He had a suit on, he was standing there next to Lion Choi. But um you know, there's a lot of pain on this phone call that goes around. I'm just gonna say, you know, no shortage of pain on this phone call.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Uh but some Herb and I were talking about you yesterday that in front we were we were recounting that story that changed US tech wondro, man. Yeah, we were both in that room when your fight with Daisung ended in the 88 trials, and the Koreans were trying to figure out what the hell to do because you had won. But it's Daysung, right? So they had you guys sit in that ring for like 15-20 minutes while they all huddled at their desk. And Kerbiner sitting there going, like what is gonna What are they gonna do? Like they're gonna catch 22. They can't let Daysong lose, but

The 1988 Trials Moment That Changed

SPEAKER_04 7:10

they can't come back and raise his hand in front of everybody that just saw what it was this moment of drama that I don't think has ever been surpassed in US tachondo history. And when they raised that hand, I remember you jumped up and down like a little monkey. You know, because you couldn't believe that led you in, and her body couldn't either. We're like, oh man, and this is a this is epic. This is an epic the end of an epic and the beginning of a new epic.

Juan 7:43

You know, I think uh I always people always ask me about like what's your most important moment, and I always tell people that was a defining moment in my life because it literally changed the course of everything I would do, everything I would stand for. I mean, who knows what would have happened if I would have lost that.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

And it's just one of those knife-edge moments of history that could have gone either way and think got it went your way. But that that didn't just change your life, that changed US tech into a history, man. That was a historical moment.

SPEAKER_05 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

In a sense, in a good way, because it showed that um it was possible. It was doing the right thing was possible. I think I I think the Koreans knew because they were believe me, when they were held held up at that table, they were trying to figure out every possible way to make that result go the other way. And they realized that there was this too many eyes on it, too many non-Koreans that would you know wouldn't stand for it, and justice was served that day, thank God.

Juan 8:51

Good stuff, man, good stuff. I mean, and even of course I came out on top, but I think it gave me a strange voice even at a young age to to kind of kind of I don't know, be my my own unique self. Because I think that I mean when I looked at the teams before me, I think they all kind of were forced into one mold. You guys all had to act a certain way, stand a certain way, you know, obey a certain way, even though you guys were so strong, but I was that weird kid on the 88 team that nobody knew and nobody really cared about, and then all of a sudden I get on the metal stand and have an interesting fight with the Korean. All that stuff combined just made for a special year.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

So well, you became iconic. You you you created new icons for the sport that we hadn't that that that hadn't existed, right? You had your hairstyle, and you had you know, you had your attitude, and and you had your game, your unique game, and these all became iconic. You know, people still talk about it, like you said, 40 years later.

Juan 10:02

Young. So I remember I remember 89, I had a little Batman patch, and I had Koreans throwing me Batman socks and Batman hats from the arena in Korea at the World Championships. Like I had like weird fans from Korea. I had no idea who they were. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

I never had a fan. You know, new new set of icons for the sport.

herb 10:28

Well, you were a handsome little you look like you ever see crazy cat? You're too young, but there was a cartoon crazy cat, and you had a friend Ignatz, and you look like Ignatz with that haircut. Ignatz. You you were you were uh you had a you had you had the right amount of of confidence slash arrogance and humility because you were always good with your seniors, at least in my experience. And I think that was a rare combination. People tend to mix those two up. But you know, you messed a lot of people's nights nights up that night, including yours truly, but you know, we could talk about that. I had my own share of my messing it up myself, but thanks for the gumball, Mickey.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

But those were those were ultimately positive icons, right? And they they did more good for the sport than and you know, there was a little bit of attitude, there was a little bit of oh you know, you you brought kind of an American flair to it, right? But but you still you still paid your dues, you still were respectable. Um you know, and those that's I don't think that's possible in the sport now, especially in this media landscape, right? Where you know likes and and followers and all that are garnered through different methods, and and you know, like Herb complains about I'm not I'm not there, I don't know the people, so I I don't talk any shit personally, but you know, feather poles or whatever. You know, it's just it's the icons are different and I think something was lost. Like you're you know, what you did was very healthy for the sport. You brought you brought some American individuality into it, but you still maintain the traditions as well. So I thought that was more your picking.

Juan 12:26

But you know, I mean, I know it's it's a it's a conversation for another day, but I think we talked about it at the you know last time, and I've said this many different times with the places I've been and what I'm trying to do with Brazil and blah blah blah, but the legacy is has been lost in our in our country. There's no leadership. I I I was lucky to have people like Hawon Young, uh Hanwan Lee was on the team, and even though we were training partners, like I looked at him as a big brother, even Daysung, right? He was coach Lee to me. He was my enemy, but one of the most I respected him so much as a coach and a leader. And those guys taught me how to act, and I kept everybody else in line that was around me and you know, younger than me. And I just carried those some of those traditions, so it's not there anymore. There's zero, there's zero chance that anybody can teach anybody that anybody taught.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Well, and and I'll I'll just say this on error because I feel strongly by it. But that that ended with the Lopezes, and I was there for it. I told this story last time. I was there when they very overtly and and uh intentionally told the US team that we weren't gonna do that. We weren't going to follow these rules, we weren't going to follow these traditions. That was for Koreans, we're not Koreans to do any of that. We can do whatever we want. We can be, you know, as profane and as as undisciplined as we were. That's our we're Americans. I, you know, I it's like that song that by Don McClain. I I was there the day the music died. You know. And you but you know, your cache is that you're still you know, you're still respected for having navigated all those worlds, and I think that's why you're still sought out, you know, it's not just for your technic technical acumen, it's also I think because um, you know, you're seen as a as an honest, steady handed uh on the rudder, and you know, I think that's why you still have currency in 40 years later. Thank you. I gotta go. I'm gonna let you guys do your thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah, well thanks for stopping by.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

But DJ, you've been firing pearls, brother. You've been firing pearls, man. Your insights I'm always impressed by them.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Thank you. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

Don't let these guys keep you down, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

No, we gotta shoot another full episode. We gotta full then maybe the next one will do a whole one with all of us again.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

I'm there anytime. Don't you let your freak flag fly, brother. Don't you're not in anybody's shadow. Right?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yes, sir. I appreciate you.

herb 15:11

Good night, sir.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

Bye. Miss you,

Juniors, Seniors, And Rewriting History

SPEAKER_04 15:15

everybody.

herb 15:16

All right, he's out. All right. That was a that was a surprise guest. Always good. We were chatting right before guests. And uh there's a story that I may have to tell that he told me, but we're gonna wait and see if it resolves itself. It was an interesting story about juniors who conveniently forget their seniors and all the help that they received from the hands of the senior, and they conveniently remember um the story differently. I had a junior once that was aspirant over something I said, um, but he retold the story correctly. He actually told the story the way I said it, and then I had to call him up and say, dude, I never thought you felt that way about this thing. From time to time, you get people who remember um remember history differently or what occurred to them, right? And uh Coach Moreno, you and I go back a long way in 1987. There's a story about that night, and and uh when you were just starting out, you were a junior in our world, and uh we we uh we did a bunch of stuff, and that's those are accurate stories whenever we tell them. But anyway, I'm gonna let that rest where it rests because it it was uh not my story to tell. We'll see if it if it's handled the way it ought to be handled. But let's get back to what we do and how we do it with uh who's starting us off today.

North Carolina Club Stacking Allegations

Juan 16:40

First of all, uh I want to just yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna give a quick little rundown. Listen, we gotta there's a couple hot topics that just go on right now. They're kind of close to us, more close to you, TJ, because it's in your neck of the woods. I want to talk a little bit about the AU and the and the the North Carolina situation, I think that's popped up. It's pretty interesting. Um definitely want to talk about some uh some rumor meals that I've heard and some facts that have that have just kind of came in within our our little world. But listen, I uh obviously the I mean there's no uh I know there was a the time when you were thinking about running for that uh district chair, TJ, and um we didn't really understand what was going on, but there was some talk in the audios about putting your resources behind you and helping you, and I don't think we've really understood that. And now we have because recently uh I just saw a commercial right now, a Gatorade commercial, and there's a girl doing a Nanabot on it. Oh, that was cool. Well, I don't know, I just caught the like the end of it. Um, there's an election going on in within the last 40-48 hours. Obviously, it must be like within the rules, but all these clubs, these clubs have registered, and yeah, Hyoung, you don't remember back in the day when USAT, USTU, it used to be common for state presidents to um get into phone books or sign up all their students as members so they could have more votes and they could or sign up fake clubs by themselves. Yeah, yes, and so I think what's happened you know in the in a very short time frame that right up to the deadline, there's been a number of these clubs, and according to the 18 new clubs in 48 hours before the deadline closes. 18 what makes a club is one person said sets it up that has to have five members. That's all you have to do, but that's not a problem. What I have a problem with, and TJ, you can help me out on this because I know you know a little bit more details. What I the problem I have is when one person makes more than one club, young. So check this out. I can make a club for my pum say team, for my sparring team, and for my in one building.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

How about no how about how about probably no buildings? Because none of these actually the names of some of these clubs, they don't exist or they overlap each other, the same thing. And um from the list that from the people that I've seen so far, when I looked at it, I mean it's one person with four different clubs. It's it's young kids, 18, 19, 20 year olds with four different clubs that don't coach, don't teach, don't have anything to do with it, and they've been kind of manipulated and thrown into this this this system, and like just think about that. 18 new clubs in 48 hours. 18. New Taekwondo clubs.

Juan 19:25

So TJ, I'm gonna ask you the question, and you I I know the answer. Like, so do you believe that these people, these these kids as you call them, which they are teenagers basically, are they have this thought process of like, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

I want to really be involved in North Carolina AAU politics, and I have this burning desire, or are they being told to do it, led to do it, forced to do it, like yeah, they're being told to do it, led to do it, and they're probably being told us out of the story that that makes sense, or like, oh well, it's this, and we want to do this, and we'll do this, and this will be so great, and all these things, but like they've been put in a situation where they're literally a part of voter fraud, like it's literally a form of just fraud. You you we're we're creating thinking about that, coach. I keep saying a number because it's crazy to me. 18 new clubs in this area in the last 48 hours before the let that off the cutoff closed. Eight.

Juan 20:24

It's crazy for me because like I would think that again, I don't know the rules and regulations, but I would think that they would have to have uh be an LLC, being uh being incorporated, have an actual business or have a building, you know what I'm saying? But obviously, the this the restrictions or or the standards are obviously less for for this style of voting. But I want to go to the leadership. Like, this is what we're doing. This is the people, this is who we want to vote in.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

This is who we want to vote in.

Juan 20:52

Like as a human being, as a man, as a woman, as a martial artist, you telling me you're gonna get some kid to some kid to open up four clubs only for the sole purpose of them voting for you? Like, what kind of leader is that? What kind of person is that? What kind of human being is that? Like, that's just that's it's unethical, it's unmoral.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Like follow suit with the rest of these guys.

Juan 21:15

Well, that and that's where I was gonna go with this, you know. Uh-oh, what we got going here?

herb 21:22

Not my circus, not my monkeys, but I definitely know all the clowns. That's a great shirt. I got a feeling, I I got I can't be certain, but I got a feeling there's gonna be a new by the end of it. But before the sun sets in San Francisco, there'll be a new shirt on the website, people.

Juan 21:44

TJ, this is going now. I'm gonna go back to that audio that we had when we heard this young man you know talking about how we're gonna you will win the election. You will win the election. Like what when that was said, to be honest with you, I didn't know what it represents. imant you know what i'm saying i kind of had an idea but we will put all our resources behind you we you you will win and all it was said over and over and over and now we see what they're talking about for some reason they did you a listen for some reason they don't they don't want this guy mr abdul there i have no idea what he did or what he didn't do or what the reason is but they asked you they asked mr posy and now they're down to this guy husky like it's crazy it's crazy that you know like I don't know if you could follow a money trail like who did these kids I don't even know how much it costs to have a club yeah I know early on or why a long time ago you know I just again either if either it was them trying to be sneaky or or lazy and I come I'm gonna go with lazy because that's just how I feel about this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

You wait till 48 you don't even care what it looks like.

herb 22:51

48 hours before it closes you add 18 clubs they don't care what it looks like because nobody's watching nobody watches they're they're an un they're but they're an unfettered unregistered unmattering group that are not part of the Olympic movement and they barely watch the the organization that's part of the Olympic movement. So of course these clowns think they can do what they want because nobody's holding them accountable. You got to get somebody that's willing to sue them and hold them accountable for what their charter is supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

But this guy's I think they supposed to be a black belt this guy's supposed to be a master this guy's supposed to be someone that's leading people and showing them what the right the right way to do things.

herb 23:30

Like tell me about the cheating referees for a year. What about the cheating referees? Those guys of black belts are supposed to hold themselves to a higher standard come on now.

Juan 23:38

I know I know listen it I get it but we're talking about like right now in this day and age these guys are supposed to be different they're supposed to be more educated you know but the ethics of it is just horrible it's just the optics of it is just I think they are being sneaky TJ because they want to do it in the last minute so that Mr. Abdul doesn't do the same thing. I don't know if he would or not I'm not saying he would but you know I'm saying they're just trying to figure out the how man how many votes do we need to get rid of this guy? Maybe it's 18 you know 17 I don't even I don't really know how it goes does with those five members they get five votes or one vote I I don't even know. I don't even care because it doesn't really matter to me but it matters to these guys.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

It's just shisty and if you're out there supporting that and we're we're out there this is this is who AU's putting in leadership positions. People that are willing to do this because they're willing to do this. And the ones that are in this area that are doing it because they think it's a good thing like stop you're still doing the wrong thing no matter what you want the end result to be you're still doing it the wrong way no one says someone can't lose an election no one says someone can't be replaced with somebody better. But you guys if you're going about it the complete wrong way and the ones and all the coaches that actually have clubs that actually have people in their clubs that are doing that shame on you too you're you're part of the problem that you don't fix things by cheating more.

Juan 24:53

That's not how things get fixed if if the if there's if there is a problem or those people that do have real clubs and stuff like that they're getting their vote is is is is null and void worth null and void because these clubs with five people a poom say club uh a a demo team club sparring club that was just demo team sparring team poom say teams uh cyber techwondo poom say team uh I mean it's crazy it's crazy a point sparring team no I don't I don't think there's one real building in this whole list how about that that's crazy and and and and and to be even more frank about this thing to show you that these guys are just doing whatever they want even against their own bylaws or rules regulations okay this guy's hosting the regional and you're supposed to be a district person a district chair to host a regional but this guy's not he's not even he's nothing he's not he's not even appointed yet he's not elected yet and he's hosting the regional AAU event like that's crazy that why because Clinton said so because Alex said so because Joe Merza said so like that's just that is just wrong all the way around for everybody in the in the country it's it's bad like again if these guys were smart they would do nothing just stay out of it you know but they're letting this guy have a is he gonna have a referee thing too just like they told you oh you could do tops now you know you could do a tops uh referee thing TJ oh we'll let we we'll let you have the regional and you could you can start making money right now because that was the thing start making money right now they kept on talking about that they kept on being reinforcing that and it was it was nasty it was slimy it was corrupt and now we see it now it's in motion you know what TJ thank goodness you're not there you know what I'm saying because you you could have fallen into that same trap and and that would have been good hopefully you would have been I you would have been smart enough to say no guys I I don't need your help I'm I'm gonna do it on my own I'm gonna win on my own you know not gonna you know play that but but that's what they were trying to do to you I know they were trying to set set you up to set themselves up and it's just bad all the way around and I'm just more ashamed with the the the the community that that allows it to happen that knows it's going on that's a part of it I'm just I'm just ashamed that like you know some of these people I've known for a very long time and it's just it's unfortunate that you're willing to to do these things for what?

SPEAKER_00 27:22

For what for again like uh Grandmaster just said for an organization that has nothing to do with the Olympic and has nothing to do with the the big picture that's supposed to be about development and and friendship and karate and and building and all these things but we're cheating to get a volunteer position just so we can run a couple tournaments and we don't care how we get there. We don't care how that where the money comes from we just we just gotta be and we gotta be seen we got to be a part some of these people aren't even capable of doing the job that they swear they want to do we're we're pretending even like even these clubs like if if you came to me and said man I just want to make the the area better the region better the North Carolina area better what does that mean and build it up these exactly well these clubs they can't do anything they got five members what are they gonna do i mean they're fake clubs they're demo team clubs that's not gonna help build the the numbers no no matter who's in charge to build up a region is tough to get more people to buy into a system is tough especially when the organization at the top is doing stupid shit like point chasing and go here and go there and go this and go this and all this somehow wraps into to nationals and the the the top's messed up the middle's messed up and now I'm just watching these guys that are cramming from the bottom messing up the middle even more it's it's unfortunate that that it it's like that but I just can't believe it's happening in in real time in in it's happening in real time I'll tell you what's happening in real time I mean again I mean this is half rumor I mean because I I I didn't see with my own eyes but there's reports that AU's membership is 62 65 100 it was 17000 before Jesus I mean if that's if that's true I mean that's not a good look I had a guy from Canada called me today and was like holy cow man the numbers are horrible I'm looking at the divisions there's a few cadet divisions that are okay and blah blah blah but the seniors are super small I have one girl that has one person in her division that's a big drop off and I'm like dude I don't even know because yeah I don't even know where you're looking at because it doesn't really affect me but I guess he's looking at the the list that's already signed up for nationals I don't know when the deadline is I don't know anything about that but if that number is true and they're under 1000 they're at 7000 or under even eight and you had 1700 before you're 10 11 000 less it's crazy man it's crazy a you proper just well not just a couple weeks ago fired the volleyball exec the the man who who runs volleyball and the guy brings in millions millions to a you and they got rid of him and and the conversation went like this uh so and so is we have so and so on the line okay hey how's it going um yeah you're fired what what are you talking about what's happening a lot click you're fired a lot's been happening click that's it that guy got rehired by a huge company huge company and making two three three times what he used to make but I'm like what what is going on just as a whole we got membership down left and right in these other sports and now our sport is getting decimated I mean I'm curious to see what's gonna happen with the nationals you know I mean I'm almost thinking that it's not gonna be as big as they thought because they probably would have been like 4,000 people 5,000 people they've been real quiet with all those numbers so I don't know if we'll ever find out blah blah blah blah blah but it's just it looks messy from the top all the way down to the individual sports. Wait,

AAU Numbers, Power, And Accountability

SPEAKER_00 31:05

wait, you know I'm getting off you know topic a little bit with the with the North Carolina specifically but if it's happening here it's probably happening somewhere else TJ no for sure because I mean where they get where they get the playbook from where they get the let's do this from like these guys don't know any if coming from the outside of AU getting in like you said we were trying to figure out I'm trying to figure out what they're talking about half the time like now I see obviously but like I mean this guy can't know more than I knew going in.

Juan 31:27

Like they're there these had to be told to do this you know yeah some some of one of the clubs that just happened is from another state that you check the mailbox and see if my peak hat came yet uncle one and uncle TJ have peak hats on again I still don't have a hat did you see one he says no all right I'm gonna say win a Nico because he'll wear it yeah he would I don't actually doesn't wear hats but he's like this he'd wear your hat he loves you no but you're right TJ like like like what'd you say about like the an out of state person yeah like there's a couple of the clubs I got at it are like technically New York clubs uh some other states clubs that are somehow registered under out in uh North Carolina like it's just they're just doing whatever they want that's the crazy part I I like we're like again we still sit here waiting for a response from our suspension yeah currently these guys they're literally they I I don't understand again I'm not a big business person I don't know the ins and out of everything or what the rules are but I know you probably gotta respond to people I know there's if you're putting demands on the person to respond within 30 days there's some retaliation and some some back the other way that that's involved in all these things and I just don't think so go ahead so we have to we have to respond in 30 days but they can go months and not say anything to us crazy it's crazy that's that's that's a good one too you know but how do they do that they that's listen there there there are there's so many things I just I just mentioned about the North Carolina regional you're supposed to be a a director or a district a district chair I'm sorry I don't even know their own terms the district chair to to host one of those things this guy isn't but it's okay because they said it's okay I heard too I heard to the grapevine that the the director of martial arts is going to run for the the the the chair of Fulwondo. So the current chair they're gonna push him aside and say you know what you know we're gonna let this other guy technically you're supposed to be a district chair he's not district chair unless he gets he wins something I don't know when the next when the votes are like and he's not you know he came down here in Florida and wasn't you know didn't uh didn't run I think he was going to but he didn't have the votes uh I don't know if he is in New York so they're just doing whatever they want when they want how they want I mean if that's not on the verge of like you said I mean that I don't want I don't I don't want to use the word corrupt because corrupt would well I guess it is corrupt I mean corrupt would be used as like a breaking the law. They're not breaking the law but it seems like they're breaking their own bylaws. You know I'm saying it's nothing like where they go to jail for but like it's just it's strange how they just you know they want to act like everything is perfect and the other organization says you know we're the safe place to be and the best place to be and we're working to do things the right way yet you got your your mo you partner is doing these things. That's who you're going to that that's who you're married with your mo you partner is is is operating like this you guys are okay with that that's how that's how you think it should all be be done they're worried about you TJ they're worried about you because you're on a podcast they're worried about you because you're successful and and you know what the funny thing is someone told me this today they said you know this all this TJ stuff is is been new but it's been like this for 10 years. It's been like this it's always been a peak thing it's always been a want thing TJ just happens to be the lightning rod right now and now let's forward it to this they talk about all these good things that they're trying to do and shake hands and work together do they know that they're operating like this that's like knowing that someone's doing something yeah abusive and just it's okay because they're bringing us money it's okay because they're helping us out is that that the same they're doing this this same unethical things I read a thing right now you know I have some athletes going to this tournament this weekend up in Pennsylvania they have this big thing on the outline about how spectators should act a big page it's well intended I have no problem with it don't boo don't harass respect athletes respect the coaches respect the referees okay okay okay then you guys if you guys don't know this stuff is going on in these in these regions in these districts then you're not doing your homework you're not being a good partner you know and if you do know and you're letting it happen then you guys running social aid games on people this is why this is why Grandmaster goes crazy what kind of sport are we in what kind of sport are we in where you can sit here and tell people how to react to a call I can't I don't get that I can't boot if I think the referee made a wrong call I can't go boo that was bad call ref I that's not that's not the right call like you can't we we can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

They're

Spectator Rules And Ethical Double Standards

SPEAKER_00 36:21

shooting safe sport they're putting safe sport what are you gonna do what are we gonna kick me out for for disagreeing with something that I'm gonna tell you nine times out of ten that the person that's yelling at the ref in the middle is probably right about that's the worst part of course that's the worst part so you can't you can't you have to sit there that's like team trials everyone's sitting there like we're at a we're at our funeral and there's no noise there's no excitement and there's nothing driving competition because you're telling people now you're telling how to act and think about this let's say I'm cheering for my guys going crazy is that gonna be negatively perceived by the other fans the other coaches the the other athlete yeah they're gonna be upset imagine if the kid's down by 10 15 and the crowd's like let's go hit him again going crazy then I'm being bad um that's that's that's not okay but that's what we're spending our time we're writing paragraphs about how parents should act and how spectators should act but all the other stuff going on around is good that's I think I think it all stems from that that Pum say thing probably where the where where they where the the parents were booing the the referees and they they kind of said it was for the kid and then there's some like was it for the kid or was it for the referees and it was kind of bad but I think that's what that was from but but you're right T that's a good point like I listen I I should you be harassing and slash heckling and like you know probably not you know probably not in a amateur sport you know a sport where there's kids and stuff like that but if I would say I would say probably not in a sport like like taekwondo where we're supposed to have traditions and respect and integrity and all those things but you can't have one without the other you can't be zero integrity over here and then want everyone else to have this massive amount of integrity because it helps you out or it makes it controls your event you know but like you're not even operating like that.

Juan 38:05

So how do you why do you expect other people to operate like that this is uh this is not even a related thing but like I was thinking about the other day like imagine imagine you're TJ you're coaching from the side you're and you're literally sit sitting in the stands I don't know 50 feet away and you're like cut go ahead move back hands up like you know what like the whole one coach thing well what about the dad and mom that says go cake ass cake face like I'm saying again where are you drawing the line well he's coaching but you're kind of you just can't know too much you can't know too much you can't know you can't know too much be a a a visible face that they know in the thing and talk you know because for sure it's the same thing if if I'm parent if I'm telling my parent to do this or do that what's the difference yeah yeah and then you can say no coaching from the thing everyone says psychic act watch out hands up move blah everybody moms dads other coaches your friends your teammates it's just yeah I mean that's the I got us off track so I I apologize but no you know back to the thing a hand it's just yeah I mean these guys you know they want to talk about everything right and everything that but they can't have it both ways you can't have it both ways if you have an organization that's doing this to to people if you have this uh organization that's doing this to uh future leaders if you have these people in these future leader positions literally stacking the the the the votes and the federation assisting them it's a problem I mean again I don't I don't know that 100% but just putting one and one together you know from what they told you we'll put all our resources you will win you will win and now all of a sudden I'm seeing your replacement will win will win will win I mean again I I hope that Mr. Abdul gets it listen I don't even know anything about Mr. Abdul I know is as a referee. That's all I know he's refereed matches I've been in nothing more I don't know anything about him so I'm not doing it because he's my buddy he's my pal.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

I respect him immensely I don't know anything about him but I'm a wrong and right kind of guy it just seems like if you can beat the guy fair and square in a in a uh uh uh election okay but this seems weird it seems odd and putting it all together just seems like it's kind of going in that direction that there's not good yeah I just can't but again like I don't know how you want to put a person like that in charge like I don't know I don't know how you you can tell that to people like this is the guy this guy that's literally being a part of adding 18 plus clubs 18 clubs within 48 hours to just win this election using people that for sure don't have clubs for sure don't teach anybody for sure don't lead people in some other aspects that it's a real thing to just win the election and this is who's gonna be in charge of this region and put on tournaments and whatever all that stuff about hiding behind you know the development and like making something better in this area like it's bullshit it's for your pockets it's for your pockets you'll get to run this turn like you just said that tournament and make a little money doing something that's all about there these guys' pockets and they didn't get to walk around maybe put a little tie on and feel special for a day because that's probably as much as they've ever done in their entire lives it is it's it's just sickening.

herb 41:19

Great great leaders don't have to protect their place. Great leaders lead and by their virtue of leadership they end up in a place in a position to help people and people try to keep them there. Great leaders also know when to step aside when their time has come and and nurture the generation of youngers and things of that sort. But great leaders don't need to game the system to stay in power. People try to get them to stay in power and at the end of the day a great leader knows when it's time to move on and and let somebody else but there's no there's no doubt in my mind that there aren't any great leaders in the AAU nor have there been well I liked Bobby Stone amongst a few others. But um there's no doubt that this current crap this current crew the current clown show which joins the USAT clown show of uh Brown Warwick and others just to name a few oh is no different right he he goes to the old school of whatever you know and and this has always been a school of manipulating the system cutting trimming the branches on the tree priing the brand you know pruning the tree before you get to the finals. But you know they can do it and get along with it as long as people stay complacent.

Juan 42:41

So if you stay complacent I mean you know if if if what I what I've heard you know the numbers are down it's easier for them to control they don't care. They don't care the numbers are down. Yeah they don't they can control the numbers easier they don't need if there's not X amount and there's only this amount they can control a little bit easier. And I mean TJ you know when we are I mean again just go back a year don't you think that you know a guy like Alex he really wanted to be the chair he really wanted to be the chair of the organization. You know I was you know trying to help him because I knew he was a young man. He had you know great energy but I knew he didn't have enough you know experience he really didn't I mean he has a lot of great ideas can run a tournament but as far as knowing people and how to work he he needed some help. He needed some you know some people around him and I you know I wanted to kind of help him with that but whatever they chose that way they put this guy Clinton there they put him there. But like think about this now. Now if the rumor if you know I'm saying it right here because this is what I heard if they're not gonna allow him to run and they're gonna put Clinton ahead of him like just think about that. Like nobody even had this guy on his radar now they're going to put him in to the chair position. They're gonna try to get him elected that's crazy. That I mean you know obviously we heard you know Alex on the on those those audios and And uh Clinton for that matter, but you know, specifically Alex talking about F the USAT. Let's go to war with those guys. He didn't like anything about it. Now he's running a tournament for them. I mean, it's it's in 10 days. It's it's it's wait a minute. Next week he's got he's got an AU regional and he's got the USAT tournament. He's got 53 people signed up right now, according to Sport80. 53 people and 10 coaches. That's what he's doing for them.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Isn't it crazy though? Like that's nuts. We we heard him go F USAT and and this and this. Like we we heard the words, and now online he's sitting there selling to the membership how this is such a good thing, and and we need this, and it's the we're growing together. Like you literally just that's crazy. I know, but what Kurazby okay, that's the problem, coach. But then you got all these people popping up region six, region seven, region eight, region nine, region ten, big smiles on their face, pretending like y'all heard what he said, y'all know what's going on, you guys know why it is the way it is, and you still go along with it. So, like I said last year, yeah, when I was talking about the other stuff with the coaching and stuff, it's your fault too. Shame on you guys. I don't care about this this uh AU, you know, membership and all stuff. It's irrelevant, but I just I just can't stand by and watch all these people. Most of these guys shake my hand, most of these guys say hello, most of these guys pretend like they know what's going on and they let it continue to happen and they hide behind this is better for the kids. This is not better for the kids, this is not better for the coaches, this is not better for the referee, and it's not better for the country. Like they took something that when we went over and I started doing an AU game, they took something that was like simple, like you said, and easy. And it felt like, hey, we're in a good place, we're doing something okay. And we can go back and forth about the referees and the hogus and all that stuff like that, but you could still see it was a value in bringing your kids there. They've literally just turned this and flipped it into a mirror of what USAT was doing six, seven years ago, having people into 45 tournaments to get ranked number one positions. It's so stupid. Who cares about being ranked number one for AAU nationals?

Juan 46:03

What does it mean? And the funny thing is the funny thing this year, so this is a new thing. So everyone's a state champ or district champion, and they might be now a regional champion. They're all gonna have the same point totals, and then what?

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Then what?

Juan 46:14

Then how do you just if you have 60 and I have 60, who's number one?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

You gotta be from five of us, you gotta be from New York. That might help. You might you might get one up here from New York.

Juan 46:24

I'm talking water real fast.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

That's no, I just it's it's it's the same thing. They just they just made a mirror of what these guys were were doing before, and it's all everyone that's sitting by and watches it. I know you have they have their positions, they have their, you know, I guess, you know, their their their their camaraderie with each other and all this stuff like that, but y'all know some of them have said to my face how bad it was and you don't agree with what they're doing. Then then what does that mean? Like, not even just these, like, because I know I know Master Abdullah is friends with a lot of them, and like this is happening to him live time. Forget me, forget, forget all this other stuff. You guys, someone that's been a part of the organization and been a positive part of the organization right now, and in live time is being screwed, and you guys are online taking these pictures, all posted up and smiles on your face, region 36 and a half, and all this stuff. Like, for what? What does it

Loyalty Tests And Cutting Fringe Friends

SPEAKER_00 47:12

mean?

Juan 47:12

I'll ask you guys I'll ask you guys both. I'll ask you both. I'm gonna young, you got a dude that um that screwed you over, that's like hurt your families. Not not physically, but like you know, just did some bad things to your family, did something bad to your kid, could didn't let him in get school, kept your daughter out of art program, just just kind of major, just bad little things here and there for the last five, six years, right? That that has happened to you, and I know that. I know that guy, me and you are brothers, me and you are good friends, me and you have you know whatever. And then I go to dinner with that guy, I go to have coffee with that guy, uh take a picture with this guy, or just like I I'm asking you guys on straight up, would you have to question me and your relationship then? If I if I know only, if we you were friends and I know somebody hurt you, but I'm like, yeah, but it wasn't with me, so I'm gonna go over there and have coffee. I'm gonna go have dinner with him and his family. Like, I yeah, I couldn't think of how I would act. I'm I'm sorry, TJ, because me and you go around this world. I mean, young, you're not in in our world when it comes to the sports. That's how I'm starting to feel. I started thinking about that based on me and your conversation a couple weeks ago, TJ. And I'm like, all right, if all these people have a beer with me and they say everything is messed up or this and this and this and this and this, and then I go see them on the other side a day later, a week later, a month later, that's fine if they want to do that. But it they can't be mad if I question the relationship that I thought that we had originally. And if I have to like, I don't know. Uh I gotta, I guess I'm gonna have to like, you know, cut some of these fringe friends that I'll call them out because I just I wouldn't do that to any, I wouldn't do that to you guys, you know. So it's it's strange, it's weird, and the answer has to be and and and listen, I wait a minute, I'm sorry, TJ. I always said I've said this a million times. I don't expect anybody to fight my fight. I we just talked about at the beginning of this podcast. I I've been this guy that stood up for right since since 1988 when I first moved into this world when I was 17 years old, and I've never changed. I have a principle. I always tell people my my I'm a black and white kind of guy. I am not a gray dude. I mean, so some people are gonna love me for that, some people are gonna hate me for that. And I've I've let some of these people that I associate with, you know, do the friendly handshake, give me the hug, what's going on? And they tell me these things, but yeah, then they go do something else. I'm like, man, I would never act like that. I'd never do that, TJ.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

It's because because but but the reason uh for that response is because you're you're a man, because you you don't want people to fight your fights. You you don't want to to to get to that personal place where you feel like, oh yeah, well, I'm kind of mad at this guy because you know he's doing this, and you kind of just keep the the value of your friendship where it was, and you'll take it. But the reality is I've done that for a long time, and I know you've done it for a long time. And it you're right, it gets to the point where, dude, I I don't really care. Like, don't shake my hand, don't say hello, don't or don't come to me and tell me. Like, I've had people walk up to me and tell me how bad it is. I don't, I don't ask you. I I actually most people that talk to me about this stuff, I kind of push the topic out. Like, I'm like, ah, you know, I'm always good. Because I am, I'm always good. I don't want to go into detail with you because our relationship doesn't need to be about that. But when you come towards me and you tell me that this is bad and they're doing this, and you don't agree, but yet you're still on the same boat, yet you're paddling the boat, yet you're giving direction. I have to question you. I I see you, yeah. You know what these people have done to me or do to me or how they and we talk about when it comes from this group or to to the bigger organization, like this goes deeper than a lot of people know. I've watched it not just with myself, not just with you, not like other teammates and people that have been in the system. Like, it's not a few, it's always been the same. Like you said, it's been eight, ten years, it's always like this, and we've always I know for a fact because I come from the same, or come from you when we talk about your your seniors teaching you how to act. I know we take a lot on the chin. We take a lot on the chin and we keep moving because like ah, whatever, ah, whatever. This guy, this guy, this guy, that guy, this whatever. But like at some point, it gets tiring. At some point, you like you said, you get tired of shaking the hands, and now I don't know, cut people, like most of these people are irrelevant, anyways. You know, that's the funny part, you know, but because of the the roles that we've been pushed into, and like you know, um uh Master Cavner call you the iconic position you you've been put into. You you learn you shake everyone's hand, you say hello, you remain respectful, you remain humble, you remain a positive part of the community because that's who you are and that's what we do. But then at some point, if they're not, why are we always gonna be nice to everybody? You know what I mean?

Juan 52:15

God forbid, God forbid you call somebody out. Now we're like the bad guy. Say hello to the bad guy, right? I learned from him, I learned from that guy right there. That's the problem. He it's your fault, young. You taught me.

herb 52:28

So

Getting Cheated Then Refusing To Bow

herb 52:29

I will say, I will say this. You know, there are many stories about this, but there's one in particular that I know Coach Moreno knows of. And um the organization that we were all part of back way back when had made a decision that they were going to try to um keep me off a team. One particular coach, I won't mention his name, out of respect because he's passed away, but he told all the referees that no matter what, Perez doesn't make the team. So this match that I fought against this individual, I beat him badly. Beat him, he didn't touch me. And somehow they put points on the board for the guy. At the end of the match, I go over to the board and I tap it to see if it's working. Literally tap it. And then I decide, because this is post-88, I'm done. So I'm gonna leave the gym. Coach Holloway grabs me and grabs me and puts me back in the gym, and he says, Listen, you want to do something? He says, beat him so badly that even the blind people in the audience see it. So that resonated with me. I went back into the gym and I had to beat him twice now. Not once, but twice. And I beat him twice and badly, and to the point where they bring in a Korean coach trying to help him who's beating him up between rounds. And even during that match, one of the referees tried to cheat, and I walked out of the arena, walked out of the ring until they changed the illegal warning they gave me, a deduction point. And Holloway calls the guy over and said, What are you giving a warning for? So lo and behold, I win the match. And this isn't the part of the story that matters, but here's the part that does matter. I now have to get on a plane and go to Greece and fight in the 91 World Championships, and the guy responsible for it is head of team. So I won't I'm out, I'm team captain, I show up in K JFK Airport, and when he comes over, I walk away. Day Sung Lee walks up to me, what are you doing? I said, Listen, I've made enough teams, I have enough medals, I don't need to win anything else. I said, You want me to come over and bow to this clown? I'm not bowing to him. So if that's gonna be it, just let me know. I'll stay here. We're in New York, I live here, I'll just go back home and eat cookies. So we go to Greece. True story. Go to Greece. Um, and there's another one at the Olympic Games, which Juan can tell you about in '92, a year later. Um, and they all decide because another coach there, this clown, uh Chung Sik Choi, the world's worst bantamweight in the history of our sport, got knocked out by Han Wan Lee in the team trials. But that's a different story. He starts giving us a hard time. So I get up and I say, if you give he says, Stop fooling around. And I said, Oh, no, no, no, no. Stop torturing the team. And so he says, You can leave. I said, All right, I'll get up and I leave. So they decide they're gonna have an intervention. They get all the coaches together, including the guy who had cheated. And um we're in a room, Lynette Love, myself, uh Kevin Padilla, and a few others. And they're like, Um, you know, Herbert, you're a team captain, you cannot act like this. And I said, and I look at the guy who had done it, I said, I know what you did, and I know what you tried to do to keep me off this team and the Pan American team for 91. I said, so let me be clear. The next time you interfere in one of my matches, and this is a senior Korean instructor, who I won't name now, and a mafia guy thinks he's in the mafia. He's about two feet tall, probably was a fighter back in the day, old Jeta Kwan guy. And I say, the next time you interfere in one of my matches, I guarantee you I will stand up, walk across the ring, and punch you in the face in front of everyone. Just so we're clear. And I'm you cannot talk like that. I said, No, no, no, no. You don't know how many hours I train, you don't know what I do. I said, So just when we're clear, before I'm a taekwondo man, I'm a Puerto Rican. So at the moment where you mess with me and mess with my life, I will come across the ring and in front of everyone, punch you in the face. Choice is yours. I don't need your help when I'm fighting, I don't need you to hurt me. Just step off to the side and let the matches go as they'll go. Fast forward to 1992, guys, still head of the referee, head of the referees. And 92 writes itself. I have to fight maybe two matches. The other guys bow out or whatever else. But that's me. So I'm not, and I'm not suggesting anybody else do what I do, but that's my mentality. And there's another story, I'll tell it another time. Coach Moreno was there for the 92 version of that in uh Barcelona at the Games. But there comes a point in time where you have to stand up for what's right. And I'm the first guy, you guys have both been around me long enough to know I'm the first guy to bow, shake hands, and and that same individual, by the way, his his compatriot at the 91, after the 91 things, comes up to me, and in front of all the Korean masters, he's one of the Korean masters executive committee, goes to shake my hand. And I just stand there looking at him. And he goes, Huh. He goes, You're you're not you're not shaking my hand. I said, Oh no, no, no. See, I don't I don't shake hands with people like you. I said, I have all to do right now just to contain myself, not to punch you in the face. I said, if you were in the parking lot, I'd run you over with my car. By example, by way of example. Nothing I'm just saying, you know, just so you understand how I feel about you. If you're waiting for the shaking hand part, that's not happening. And again, that goes back to my fundamental thing, which gets Coach Moreno and you in trouble sometimes. And I inspire you sometimes too much, or not inspire you, but you know, you start to get caught up in my fever and do things that you probably shouldn't do. Um, but I I look at it really simply. I have enough stuff, I've done enough stuff, I'm old enough that I should be able to do what's right and say what's right because I don't really care. I don't care what they think they can take from me. USA Taekwondo doesn't mention our names. Who cares? You can't take away my medal. Who cares? Don't mention my name, by the way. I'm okay. First of all, yeah, erased me from his.

Juan 58:47

When you say things that maybe we shouldn't say, no, we should say them, to be honest with you. So I mean because it no, because I I know what you mean. Like, you know, we maybe we we could avoid some some gunshots at us, so to speak, but you know what? Someone's gotta say it. Someone's gotta say it. And and we we're saying it diplomatically. I mean, we have people every day that come up and congratulate us and and say keep doing what we're doing. So look at we we probably should be more coarse and we should probably should be more rough around the edges and and not be so polite in our analogies, in our but here's here's here's the question.

herb 59:23

And not for you, because when you're invested and you have stuff to think about and you have others that depend upon you, you can be more measured in your tone. I don't have anybody that depends on me in the sport, I don't have anybody I have to protect. And so I can I should be in a place where I can speak. But here's you know, here's the long and the short of it, right? At some point, the people in this organization need to ask themselves, we all started Taekwondo for different reasons. I started it to be a better man. I wanted to be respected like my instructor was. I wanted to be a man of character, I wanted to believe in principles, I wanted to stand for those principles. I looked around, and there aren't many of us. Most of them, they're taking the carrot, the plane ticket, the seat at the table. They're taking the free meal and they're they're yes, boss, yes, boss, yes, masa. Yeah, but where can I go? The crazy part. How bad can I go?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

With no sense of guilt, though. Because they don't know.

herb 1:00:19

Because for them, it's a value add, it's a it's a value proposition. What can I get from me? Jay Warwick, the worst, the worst taker. And I'm embarrassed for him because if the USAT is paying for his plane tickets, he's made enough money that he doesn't need to take their money. He should be donating his money. I can guarantee you hasn't written a check to USA Taekwondo. Most people that join boards, they donate to the boards. I haven't been on a single board that I haven't donated to. This guy's taking every free free plane ticket he can, so he can sit next to the guy who knocked him out at the Olympics.

Juan 1:00:54

Like you said, TJ, like with no guilt, no remorse, whatever, but yeah, they'll be quick to say, well, first of all, I think they're they're protecting the people that are doing you know mediocre right now. I mean, having mediocre results because it's it's easy to keep them in in a situation of of power, of of of control, because if not, then they have to deal with somebody new that may you know question them.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

But uh anyway, and they'll keep and they'll keep doing what they're what they're told to do because somewhere deep down inside they know they shouldn't be there. They don't even love the sport enough to be there. They don't even love the sport enough to be there. They don't even they don't even understand the sport enough to be there. Like I like you, I've known a lot of this organization for a very long time. They're not fit for the positions that they're in. They don't they don't even know what it means to be a leader for others to try to help them get to a place where they're I heard this.

Juan 1:01:45

I

Intentions Do Not Win Medals

Juan 1:01:46

two things I want to talk about. Like, number one, I would like to talk about real fast about the Asian championships. Uh talking about that recently, and then also um about the new rules that are coming up next week at the Grand Prix in Rome. But it's funny, I heard this on a podcast, and uh this coach was was vouching for his friend. He admitted there was his friend. Then he was like, you know what? Every time I've been around him, like he he means well and he he tries his best and he's well-intentioned. And I was like, what the hell does means well, well-intentioned? That's like uh sorry, uh you know, boss. I I I meant to show up on time. I really was trying to get oh, okay, Juan. As long as you meant to be here on time, no problem. I'm sorry I didn't get those that that that that file into you. It was my intention to do it, but you know, I ate a bunch of cookies and my stomach got rumbling and had to go to the bathroom. Oh, you intended to get it done, but you didn't get no problem. Like that's not the way the world works, especially in a performance result-based sport at the highest level, at the highest level, maybe at the cadet level, maybe at the junior level, maybe at the little mini peewee where we're just participation. But when you're at the world champion, Olympic level, pan American championship level, brand free level, you're well intentioned as a coach, as a leader. What are we talking about? What are we talking about? That crazy take.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

That's again, like you said, I know it's the friend. It's the it's the you know, I'm looking out for my my boy who again we're talking about his like intentions, a person's intentions is is just the silliest thing in the world. Like you just said, I don't care what you intend to do, it's what you do do, it's what what what you do offer. What are are you can you do this job or should you be doing this job? I don't care if you intend to be a good person and you're a bad person. If you intend to be a good person, you're a bad person. Guess what? You're still a fucking bad person. You're just a bad person. There's no intention behind it. Like, I wanted to be good this morning and I didn't. But that's that's I I've never had that privilege, so I don't know what that feels like. My intentions have never been enough to to sway anything, you know. If I get you on the team, yeah, no, I don't know. If there was I had to either do it or you didn't do it, you either won or you lost. But those are the type of people that have been in that world for so long that probably their intentions have got them in the places where they are now, or or or the things they say out loud or say out of their mouth that are probably halfway lies and zero intention to it, you know.

Juan 1:04:14

Isn't the same guy that said like in the past something out there that there was coaches that were you know privatizing you know the you know the their information and not giving it to people? What does that like we didn't what is it first of all? Yeah, I don't know what that means. Number one, we didn't have a centralized training, so what are we supposed to do? And number two, I went to everything. Me personally, I went to every cadet. Well, we didn't have cadet junior team, junior worlds, junior penns. I I went by myself to to El Salvador when it was bad. Me and two other coaches. So don't tell me that we weren't you know doing things, but I'm like, wait a minute, isn't what they have now the the academy? Isn't that a private? I mean, aren't they keeping all their information for them? Aren't they keeping all the resources?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

No, no, no, they're not, they're not doing that. Stop it. They're only gonna charge you. No, if you pay 295 dollars, you can get all the information. If you guys are the the gold member subscription that you paid three years in advance, you'll get some kicking videos too, and access to level one and level two, but like that that's my issue. Or to the website or to the personal website, though, let's not pretend that if this is somewhat different and they are putting more information out. Also, let's not forget we're in the media era, it wasn't so people didn't do what people are doing now. Like, I I still halfway the spies putting out Tekwondo publicly, training videos and kicking videos. Like, it used to feel private. It was for you and your team to develop, to grow, to you were giving them you. It wasn't for public consumption, you know. And I know we live in a different world now, but let's not pretend like you just said, that's exactly this is the most prioritized, monetized single room I have ever experienced in my entire life of doing Taekwondo this country.

Juan 1:05:58

It's it there's never been even at the OTC days, there's no money. There was no money. The coach didn't get paid. The athletes didn't get their weight paid for. They had dormitory and food because that was provided by the Olympic Training Center. But a budget, a paid coaching staff for doctors, uh physicians, uh, physiotherapists, nutritionists, psychologists. What?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

And that's why I didn't know. But this is why, but this is why we go back to what we're saying about the intentions and at the at the world level. And you know, we we we celebrate second and third and fourth and whatever at Pan Am Championships and other things that listen, this is the bet this is what I'm being told, this is the cream of the crop, right? This is this is the elite of the elite.

Juan 1:06:43

Oh no, they're supposed to have that that talent ID or that that that showcase, so maybe they might find that diamond in the rough, that cliche.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

I I I don't even know how people take their guys to the stuff like that. Like I don't know why you would. Why why?

Juan 1:07:00

That's ridiculous. You know, I unless you unless you're brand new to the scene and you have no idea, but all of a sudden it's your turn and you're gonna go there. Oh, how about this, TJ? Tell that you got to tell them about the the the game. Playing the game.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

Yeah, you know, it's it's funny. I had a couple of conversations just like recently over the last like three, four weeks, so I'll keep hearing this this ah, is it worth me playing the game or doing this? I don't know why people would ask me should they play the game? And I think they're referring to like AAU stuff or USAT stuff. Is it worth it? Is it gonna, you know, help their athletes and all this stuff? The reality is if you have to play a game outside of the sport of tech window to get your athletes something, like at some point you gotta realize it's probably not worth it. Like, I and I get it, and I I've heard it so much, you know, you know, you gotta be politically correct, you gotta walk the walk and talk the talk and all this this this stuff. But it really means nothing if the value of what you're getting is not there, and that you should never have to jump through hoops to to get something you work hard for, you you push for, you deserve, or you're in the running for. Like, it shouldn't have to be that way. Like, I don't even understand. Like, you you tell me what what what's the game? Hi, sir, how are you? Shake his hand. You guys are doing great, awesome. Let me lie about results, but like pump you guys up. You guys have done so amazing. This is so great what you guys are doing. It's gonna revolutionize the sport. Is that playing the game? Is that what they mean?

Juan 1:08:25

Is that what they need so that their athlete feels like listen, if you're good, you're good. I mean, I think there's a couple athletes recently that went out to the academy that didn't need to go out to the academy because they were literally the best in the country at where they were, and they went out there because they thought that they needed to play the game and they were the highest level, and they're being less productive. That's the truth of the matter. So now you got these cadets and juniors thinking, and their coaches and their moms and dads thinking, we should we play the game? They don't ask me that because no. I can't believe people asked me that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

I don't even I don't even understand.

Juan 1:08:58

Funny, man. That's a funny one. That's a funny take, but I will talk about that again. But hey, I know we're getting a little

Asian Championships And The Gap Debate

Juan 1:09:04

bit late. Let's talk a little bit real fast about the Asian championships. Did you get a chance to watch any of that, TJ? First, my first take was them and Europe, probably was a multi-day competition. In the Pan Am region, we have all 16 weight categories on one day. These guys, it looked like a a grand prix, like I think three three rings. I mean, they had different sessions. It was uh, I mean, the divisions weren't that much bigger than the Pan Am'cause because we had so many wild cards. I mean, there was some 20s and 25s and 30s, you know, and some of the men's divisions. But the I thought the overall quality of the Asian championships, I mean, I and I know like the European style and the Asian style make it look nice, but Iran looked like they weren't playing. Uzbekistan had a very strong showing they lost a couple finals in the last second, which is a little bit uncharistic, or else they could add a few more. Korea. Korea 68 boy looks nice. That Korean 68 boy looks pretty good. He's tall, he's won up, you know, a bunch of things recently. The 80 guy, that boy we living on the edge, man. That dude, I I think he I think he may be close to done.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

He's pulling them out at the end for sure. He's doing things that shouldn't happen. It couldn't happen again if he tried it, you know.

Juan 1:10:24

But yeah, and I think grand pre-level, like I think when he starts to get to like three or four tough matches like that, I think two or three touch matches, it could be not as easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

So it's it's I guess like you said, my biggest takeaway is the same thing. Like the the value of I don't know if it's the value of production, it just it just looks cleaner, it feels cleaner. I think you you just said something um, you know, like the Asian style or European style makes it look nicer. Are you talking about the style of fighting?

Juan 1:10:51

When they fight with each other, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like if you put like a European with Asian or an Asian with a South American, you know, I think our big ones could fight with them, and it doesn't look like when they fight, they're they're you know, two people going together kind of fight the same style. It kind of looks like it goes together, you know? That's how I see the Asians, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

The level, I mean, if I'm the the level's way higher. I don't, I mean, there's no other way around it. Like it's just I think they do play better. I I I if I had the I don't I don't believe in like a style thing. I don't think there's when you when you have a a region of people, I think you say, you know, we fight a little bit rougher in the the Pan region, but I think at some point we've kind of gotten away from that. I don't think it's I think we're willing to get in an exchange in the Pan and region, but I don't think we fight the same outside the Pan A region that we fight in the Panama region. I don't think we don't, yeah. That's my that's that's kind of like my thing. Yeah, and then so then I go, is it a what's what style prevails the most? If there is a style, you know, because we start to blend in and we slow down a little bit and we kick long, we change the lens, and it kind of builds into that whole thing. I just think overall Asia, I'm I'm mid always about Europe, but I think Asia that that they just play better, you know?

Juan 1:12:00

Because I think overall, like number number five, six, seven, eight, those guys are tough. You know, when I look at like again, you look at Korea, you look at uh Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, um, you look at Iran, you look at um Chinese Taipei, China, you know, Taipei, you look at Thailand, you know, you look at some just random one-off countries, like like India's got some weird things going on where these kids are like wild and kicking and stuff like that. Afghanistan's not there right now, but you're starting to get these Mongolia has a couple of wild guys to China. I didn't even mention China, like all of a sudden, like from the top eight down, you got a battle. Like anybody can beat people, you know. And I'm gonna tell you what, that 58 boys Andy from from Iran, that dude is no I don't even this boy, this boy beats people like slaves, man. He ain't playing. He goes, he beats you like you owe him money.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

Why did TJ flinch? It's so stupid. I swear, you're watching this, you're watching this guy, and I know I know the the game isn't so appealing to you, but you're watching this guy score at will on on a the Korean uh fighter to the point where the Korean guy just throws his arms in there in confusion. He's hitting them so much in so many different spots that this guy that trains three times a day at like one of the best systems in the world is just baffled.

Juan 1:13:26

No answers, zero answers. Dumb, he he hits that little flop kick to the back, he hits it to the front, he does sidekick, he kicks him in the face, like it's like all you hear is this thing going off, and the cream dude's like like what the yeah man, that boy, and he's big, he's big. Now, I'm gonna do you remember back in the day when when Farzad came out?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

That was his name. I couldn't think of his name. I was trying to tell my boy his name. Yeah, for example.

Juan 1:13:58

No, um uh Iran, Iran. But Fatherzad, remember when he came out and he was dominating everybody, but then he had a problem with the weight, you know, and kind of slowed down as it got closer to the Olympics like in Rio and stuff like that. You know, he's living in anyway. Speaking of him, he's living in uh California. He's working with uh Mehdi, Medi Bebak. He's teaching at his school, so that's kind of cool that those two guys. Mehdi coached him when he was winning all those grand prix, so it's kind of cool that those guys are working together and doing pretty well out there for themselves.

Grand Prix Rome Preview And Olympic Math

Juan 1:14:30

Medi just he had a small school to start. He just I think he doubled it. He's a great guy, great, great, great guy. Always positive, always humble, always giving and stuff like that. So, but yeah, Iran looks they looked apart. So this first grand prix in Rome is gonna be if everybody shows up, it's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

My question, my question. Don't they have to show up?

Juan 1:14:56

Because don't you there's a cut up.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:58

Don't you get the the cutoff hasn't happened yet?

Juan 1:15:01

I don't know. There is a certain cutoff point that, yeah, if you don't show up, then you get banned from the next one. But they always go there. You might be, we might be, we you could go there and you cannot, when I say show up, like somebody could not make weight, and that's the screen.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

But they gotta get on the scale. Yeah, somebody could have the Europeans that don't uh not the Europeans or is it the Europeans with the the their championship or whatever? Not the championship, yeah.

Juan 1:15:24

That's the president's cup, president's cup, yeah. Yeah, I don't know, I'm not sure what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:29

I mean, they're on the list though. I'm just saying they're that that cutoff is I'm gonna, it's like two weeks before.

Juan 1:15:35

Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably it's probably there. And it's kind of weird because there's some remember they have like they always like the the cutoff for this one was February. I think it was February, and the cutoff for the next one is March. So like you're trying to like, wait a minute, that guy got a bunch of points in in April. You know what I'm saying? So he's oh, he's like I think this Korean kid that I just talked about, I don't think he's in this first one. I don't think he's until like the last one, you know. So people are gonna dodge some bullets for a couple for a couple tournaments.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:06

So 68's always crazy. It doesn't even matter. 68's always crazy. I think it's getting crazier. Like, I think it's this top I'm hoping for like a remer, like a rebuild of like the Grand Prix from the beginning, where like all the one through 32 showed up and you you got good matches almost from the beginning of the day.

Juan 1:16:26

This has a potential. We're gonna see. I hope it, I hope it is like that because I think that listen, you're not gonna make the Olympics this year, right? But but you'll have a good head start. You'll have a good head start. These the people that aren't in the grand prize this series, I almost feel like the you your chances of coming in next year and winning grand prize and winning the world championships is gonna be very difficult because these guys are all gonna be in the top ten. And so they're gonna have good seeds, and you're gonna have to go through all the best of the best of the best. So it's gonna be a little bit tough, I think, for some of these American kids or some of these other, you know. I think the Americans are lucky because obviously they have guaranteed two men and two women that will go to the Olympics, they don't have to worry about points because of the host country. There's no way they would get top six for four or five people. I mean, historically they've never had it. They don't have any horses that could that could consistently win. You know, there's maybe two people that could possibly crack the top ten, you know. The other ones would need a lot of luck and a lot of parody, a lot of people losing, you know, at the right time. Like you win, I win, her wins. So we just all kind of change points here and there, but um, but is the USAT in a place where they could have people that actually so do they get those four spots in addition to like let's say they had guys that were in the top six.

herb 1:17:56

So they get the top six go first.

Juan 1:17:59

Yeah, yeah. So for example, let's say let's say me, you, and TJ, we all got top six. Then we only get one more person.

herb 1:18:09

Okay, okay, okay. So they'd have to have top eight.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

They all they'd have to have to have eight people that went, everybody was in the top six.

herb 1:18:17

Yes. That's not happening. Five. No.

Juan 1:18:20

Yeah. No. They have nobody that can do they have, like I said, they may be two people. Maybe two people.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:27

So that's funny.

Juan 1:18:30

It's gonna be interesting because I mean, even like in the 80 guys, I mean they have two people up there, so we're gonna see what you know young Victor does and and CJ. Yeah, I don't know their draw. Actually, I have their draws, I can look at it. Yeah, send it to me, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:42

I haven't seen it yet either.

Juan 1:18:44

It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be interesting. You know, so yeah, but next week we'll we'll get on on track and we'll do a preview of of of the of the Grand Prix. We'll have I'll I'll get me, I'll make sure I have the draws according to like who is uh who's there, and then we can kind of go through it

Sorry, Not Sorry Sign Off

Juan 1:19:03

a little bit.

herb 1:19:03

Well, I wanna I want to make sure we close with our usual disclosure, which is if anything we said on this podcast was offensive or offending to you personally. I don't even know if I'm sorry anymore. Sorry. Sorry, but not sorry. I apologize, as Connor McGregor said, to absolutely nobody. So with that said, this has been the warehouse 15. And as we have said before, not my circus, not my monkeys, but I certainly know who all the clowns are. With that said, we are out.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:40

All right, good.

Outro Rap Reprise

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

Not my circus, not my monkey. Not my circus, not my monkey, but I know all the clowns and they lookin' real spunky at a 80. You back in town, tryna gain a system, tryna take the crown. They want that viral dancing the flag, but they can't move right, they just want the cash, yeah. They pray, yeah, they play. Why the real ones pay every single day? Look at the ringmaster sitting in the shade, living off the promise that the real tellin' made. They ain't got rhythm, they ain't got gold, that's the poly weak moves, tryna lose control. Scared of the future, scared of the grind, with the dignity and their morals behind built that fake old tower, wall to wall. But they can't talk slick when the curtains fall. Daddy, but that was no moment about the court. Still can't find respect and a real damn sport. On that spot, for the camera, all that stage up, talk, but no work done. I wanna press your wall. I see the screens, I see the green, I see the same old skin. Tryna pull me and give your page. My surface, I'm gonna be, but I know all that clowns and they lookin' real stomachy. Yeah, they move back in town, tryna give in the system, tryna take the crown. They want that viral dance in the flag, but they can't move right, they just want the cash, yeah. They friends, yeah, they play, why the real ones play every single day. Same trick, same old grip, same back and fan shakes, same paper than win. They parade through the arms with the police, lie then act surprise when the good ones dry. Real kids striving for what shot to breathe. Why the fake ones team and the shameless teeth. Every little bever got a hidden cause. Every trophy polish by the time they lost. You can keep your mask out, keep your little show. I seen the bookie signs and the dominoes. One day truth knocks hard, one day lights go cold. And every bar of brown turns rusty gold. Ooh, the joke ain't funny when the jack gets due and a room gets muddy. Ooh, yeah, yeah, that's down. That's the whole card I was coming down. Not my circus, not my monkey. But I know all the clowns and they lookin' real smoky. Yeah, the AD boot back in town. Tryna gain the system, tryna take the crown. They want that viral dancing up flash, but they can't move right, they just want the catch. Yeah, they prince, yeah, they play. Why the real ones rise every single day? Let the clowns talk loud. The truth stay hungry.