Three Olympic Medalists Versus A $348 Registration Fee

You can feel it when a sport stops rewarding honesty and starts rewarding compliance, and we are not pretending that’s normal. We open with the North Carolina vote fallout and the bigger problem behind it: leadership incentives that push coaches and athletes into “play the game” politics, last second club creation, and outcomes that look decided before the room even votes. If you’ve ever wondered why good people go quiet, why parents feel powerless, or why the same names keep winning the rooms that matter, we say the part everybody whispers and then we ask the only question that counts: what are you willing to do?

Then we switch gears to high performance taekwondo and break down Grand Prix Rome right after the Olympic point reset. We talk electronic scoring, Daedo hogu inconsistency, dead sensors, and why one match can turn into a video game score while the next match can’t buy a point. We also get into passivity penalties, last 10 seconds chaos, and the uncomfortable truth that athletes are learning to fight the rules as much as they fight opponents. Along the way we highlight the upsets and new contenders who look ready to take over divisions, plus what “surviving success” really means when the whole world is watching your next round.

We’re three Olympic medalists who love this sport enough to criticize it in public, not just in private texts. If you care about taekwondo governance, USA Taekwondo culture, AAU taekwondo costs, and what fair competition should look like, hit play, share this with one coach who needs to hear it, and subscribe so you don’t miss what comes next. After listening, what would you change first: the rules, the money, or the people in charge?

Transcript

Fight The Power Opening

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Yo, fight the power, fight the passivity, fight for your rights to be more. The revolution will not be televised. It will be live. Yo, fight the power. Fight the passivity. Fight for your rights to be more. The revolution will not be televised. It will be live.

Back In The Room And Reset

herb 3:08

And we are back, back, back from everything, and we got a lot to talk about today. How are you doing, gentlemen? Oh, nice shirt, nice shirt, nice hat. Hey, Nico, did my hat come yet? Okay, all right. I'm still waiting, waiting for it. I sent it. Hey, honey, we're on we're on the podcast now, so all that all that uh unnecessary adness. All right. Got it, gotta silence the house. My daughter and wife are having a moment.

Juan 3:36

Can you hear anything from in my background?

herb 3:38

No, I probably probably you don't hear mine either, right? No, nothing. All right, you guys can you can chat away. Yeah, just don't chat too much. You can turn the TV up, honey. We're watching the Knicks. What's the score?

Juan 3:49

95. The Knicks are losing by a couple, but it's been back and forth. Knicks are playing tough, though, man. If you get three, that's gonna be it. Oh, dude, for sure. Yeah.

herb 4:02

Well, what we got what we got today, gentlemen. What do we get? There's a lot going on. I I uh I see the parade of mediocrity is continuing, but we'll get to that.

Juan 4:11

Yeah, let's talk about I want to talk about a couple things. Actually, one thing just hit my desk early. Um uh but or late early this afternoon.

North Carolina Vote Fallout

Juan 4:20

But TJ, let's talk a little bit about like the final result of the uh the North Carolaca, North Carolina vote. We uh we saw what happened there, and it's uh you can break it down.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, I think we like we talked about last time, we knew what the the votes were gonna look like at the end of the day, you know. But having to sit through and listen to and watch people cheat and celebrate it, the win was a little bit harsh for me. It was to say the least. Both of them got up there and they talked. You had the, I think, uh, what's his name? Thomas Husky went first. I'm gonna say his whole name because I just want to make sure Thomas was the same person. He goes first and he goes on this rant about the dumbest thing I heard was that high-level tech wondro has been gatekeep for too long, and he wants to expose the community to high-level tech wondrous, and him and his buddies were sitting around who's gate. I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

I don't know.

Juan 5:31

Him and his his uh his busted ass uh I don't know online school.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

I don't know. It was it was it was rough to listen to and then watch these guys. Oh, and the the second stupidest thing I heard was he's doing this because he thinks he's the guy for the job. Has he not been paying attention? Technically, you were the third guy for the job, stupid. Like, I don't know, like no, we all know this, correct? Yes to be true. So so to berade out there and pretend this I watched this guy fist pump after they came back and said it was he fist pumped as if he did not know that they were gonna win by cheating.

Juan 6:17

Like he fist pumped, like I got this.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

My my guy, you you had students and people that are close to you go and make clubs last seconds before, put their names on all of them, shift votes to other people just to win this, and then you fist pump. I'm gonna go back. I've never seen more I've never seen more of a loser mentality in my entire life. I I just I did not know it existed that way.

Juan 6:48

I'm gonna go one more. I'm gonna go one more just real fast. I mean, because you know, you said he thought he was the guy. He didn't think that he was the guy for the beginning because at no point did he ever try to run against you when he knew you they were after you or Bernard Posey. It wasn't until the 11th hour. They just had to find somebody at this point because they had messed over Mr. Abdul for so long, and they had talked about him on that podcast or that um sorry, that podcast, that um that phone call, and they mentioned him by name and how blah blah blah, how they're gonna, and it just got trickled down to him. So it said, what a what a crock of lies. Uh I I I felt I was the guy to to change North Carolina. And again, I'm not saying he doesn't believe that now.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

You look you look at the room, and I mean and I'm gonna tell me you look at the room and you see the side of the room that we're sitting on, and you see coaches who have schools, you see athletes who are work training and a part of AU system and on their national teams and their cadet teams, and continue to do it on the other side and travel international, have all this experience from the parents to the coaches to the athletes on one side, and on this other side, you have a group of people, some of them haven't even gotten their black belts yet. Like, what are we talking about? Crazy, like crazy. Some of them, like you're talking about leaders and being leaders and being uh responsible for clubs that don't exist, and and you're sitting there, and but the most embarrassing point has to be husky because you allowed them to do that. My my guy, you allowed them to be manipulated and and almost just pushed around and like for what? What do they even know what they're fighting for? Do they even know what what what could it possibly be that you made them believe that that was something they should be doing in this moment, and you call yourself a leader? It's crazy. An entire group of young adults in the room, and you're doing this, and you're standing over them, and you're walking around making sure the signatures look whatever they're supposed to be going on. It was embarrassing, and you had them do it. You had people acting out of character, they don't know what the hell is going on with this whole thing.

Juan 8:49

It's amazing that it's TJ, it's amazing, like you said, that is listen, okay, if me and you are gonna run each other against each other, I got my people, you got your people. We can agree to disagree. You know, I'm on one side, you're on one side, you know, I believe in X and you believe in Y. Okay, we can we can fight. But this one is a little bit crazy, right? Because it was very obvious. But like you said, there's people that had schools, people that have been to you know, the team trials helped the the organization at the at the national level, at the international level, you know, just all these things. It's not even debatable. And then you got these people, like you said, that just opened up a Pomsteak club, just opened up a demo team club, just opened up a point sparring team club. Like people that were inside of my gym training, they have no investment zero, no investment, and they just went there to do that. Shame on them, shame on him, and you know, then they had the regional that they weren't supposed to give him anyway. And there was, I heard there were 63 people. I heard there was three referees and two rings. Now, again, I don't know. That's what I just read, and you know, I just I laughed to myself. I'm like, and that's what you guys get, you know, that's what you get, and you probably won't, you know, get much more.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

When you but when you stoop to that level, I don't think you feel embarrassment anymore. I'm convinced, I'm convinced you you can't feel embarrassment and act like that. Not even a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, not even a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

It was crazy. It was crazy, it was crazy to watch. It was it was probably the most eye-opening thing I've seen in a long time because I know I say a lot of things like the system is rigged. I say a lot of things like this system is not for you, it's for them. And this goes on different levels, whether it's AAU, whether it's USAT. I don't care who it is. But the I to watch it that closely and to be in a room, it it it was it was it was just a different feeling.

Juan 10:38

I mean, it's there's a couple, there was a couple other states that you know similar things happened and stuff like that. And I'm not gonna, you know, comment on it because number one, I don't know much about the details of it, but I heard it was something very similar where people were just getting signed up. But again, I I I don't know um the details as much as I know of this

When Politics Poison The Sport

Juan 10:57

one. But some I just read something really probably about 10 minutes ago um on Facebook, and I'm not gonna mention the coach's name because I don't like to mention people that I don't, you know, I don't want to front people out, but he wrote something pretty interesting, and he just basically said, I don't know what happened to our sport, you know, the politics, the choosing the sides, the fake friends, the the changing of the rules. He was just talking about all that. And he's like, I just want to have fun. I just it's crazy that you know, you if you are friends with somebody, somebody's keeping track of it, and then they're gonna tell you and hold it against you. And he was just, he's like, I don't want to vote, I don't want money, I don't want anything, I just want to take care of my athletes, my parents, my team, and that's it. Leave me alone. And I was it was funny because I mean, I know a few years back he was he was involved in the organ of in the other organization, the USAT, and I think he was trying to help out on some cadets and junior levels, and for whatever reason he fell out of favor. I'm not sure, I don't know anything about it. But when he when he wrote this, I was kind of like it sounded like a guy that was fed up, sounded like a guy that just said, you know what? I've sat back and watched this, and it's too much. And I and you know, I guess it is too much, and it's and and I like this this this gentleman. He has a very successful school, he's had very successful kids. His family's been involved in martial arts a long time. They've been involved with AAU, USAT for a long time, and to hear him just kind of voice that it reminded me a little bit, not as in detailed as your thing, TJ, a year and a half ago, two years ago, when you wrote that big, you know, kind of you know, just get things off your chest. Uh I give him a little respect for that because, or not a little, I give him respect for that because it's not easier write those kind of things because he knows the powers to be are are watching and looking, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

So I don't know. You try to you try to do the right thing, you try to, you know, like like that that we were talking about before, that play in the game stuff. I don't, I don't, I hate that term play in the game. I I've never I don't think I've ever played the game. I've I've done taekwondo for a long time. I I stuck to my what we got, what we shot.

SPEAKER_11 13:10

Thank you, sir, may I have another?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Thank you, sir. May I have another. Thank you, sir. May I have another.

herb 13:22

That's basically that's basically what you have going on. Thank you, sir. May I have another. So the membership puts up with it, so they're bent over.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

There's a paddle out, there's a the membership is but see the problem is and I always think it's bigger than it really is. And someone reminded me the other day that there's this core group of sport tech window people that like are paying attention, that are are are focused on what's going on. Like that group of people is handcuffed. Like it is a like you cannot win. That group, what group of people? The ones that are in this, so he said he said it's owner, it's the is he blames the um the people, like the people paying to go. And I understand that. Yeah, I really get that. But I'm saying that core group that have this, like, I'm gonna do sport tech window, I'm gonna be a part of this. I think at some point that group of people has to get mad. Everyone else is there. That group of people has to be the group that gets mad because those are the ones that invested all the time, all the energy, all the effort, show up to these tournaments day after uh um time after time, put their money into it time after time, and get they get treated like this. Like, again, I just can't believe we've entered a world still that our junior team is not funded. My like I I still can't even just wrap my mind around that simple part. And we're saying we're going to tournament after tournament for 275 a pop, 375 a pop, this, this, this, pay for your tournament, pay for your registration, pay for the event, pay, pay, pay, pay. Show up and pay some more. We'll get the national team coach. By the way, we'll get Daehu Lee. He's flying in too. He's gonna look at your kid too, pay 50 bucks extra. He'll sign a shirt for you. This is the craziest time in Taekwondo I've ever experienced in my entire life.

Juan 14:57

But TJ, I'm gonna say, like, I mean, I know we harped on the on the junior team for a long time. Even if they started tomorrow and they all of a sudden had some extra money and they're gonna start paying for them to go, it doesn't change the fact of what they've broken for, you know, for for so long. You know, it it really doesn't. And it's and which leads me to this.

Fees Up Service Down

Juan 15:15

I I'm on a I'm on a chat, uh, uh, a group chat in this area, in this region. And again, I don't know anything about it because I'm not involved, but there was this well-written thing, and it said that there was a um the AU went from advertised $169 super savor rate. Listen to the the marketing words where you have super savor rate. It's not like you're buying something from Kmart.

herb 15:44

Super gulp from uh from uh 7 Eleven or Piggly. Actually, where you are, TJ, it's what is it a piggly wiggly? Go ahead. Sorry, I've never seen one.

Juan 15:55

$169 for super rate, and then it went to $348, which is right now. So I guess it went from $169 to $210 to $220, and now it's at $348 to register for the AAU. Think about this. $348, and I again I'm sure it's some late fees, but uh like what are we doing? Like, I I I complain about you know one organization paying $195. I never paid the late fee because I was, I mean, that's the early fee, but $348 for what you've said how many different times, TJ, to an organization that isn't the NGB. Like that's the late rate. Now, it's funny because I did some research and the Sport Karate, Sport Karate, their early fee is $89. Their regular fee is $109, their late fee is $159. Our fee super savors, our super savory fee is $10 more than karate's late fee. Now, again, I I don't know what you you know why we have more expenses or whatever the case may be, but $350 basically. Come on, you gotta do better. Some of these people to show up and have no fights, one fight. God forbid, TJ, you were one of these people that did fighting forms, weapons, demo. Like, can you imagine?

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I'm gonna go back one more. I at this East. I don't know if I talked about it last episode, but just talking about that reminded me of something. There was no like formal get all the kids together and go to the podium and get your medals. There was like none of that. Like, you'd have to like go get the paper and then you would take it over to the picture place. You know, that whole thing where the kids get to get on the podium and raise their hands, and mom and dad get to be like excited and take good pictures with the backdrop and all that stuff. There's really none of that.

Juan 18:00

Where's the customer service?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Like, I know maybe it's not a big deal, but it is a big deal. I can't like it has to be a big deal, a little bit.

Juan 18:07

When you're trying to like no, I I mean TJ, when they're when they're trying to say like this is a big event, we have a 29% increase. Of course, you got a 29% increase, you made it part of your selection procedures, but because of the points, I mean let's not let's not kid ourselves, but anyway, 29% increase. Like you set up a nice event, you got a horrible way uh uh weigh-in area. Um why don't you do things protocol, you know, have some good protocol, have some good customer service, have a nice setup where people can go there, the families can go there, the division can go there. It can't be that hard.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

They've done what you say that was $350?

Juan 18:46

No, no, that was USAT.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

No, forget them. AU's uh super saber discount late rate was $350.

Juan 18:55

Right here. Give me 348, I believe. Give me a second, give me a second. 348 348. That's crazy. That's probably for one event. It is for it is for one event.

SPEAKER_06 19:18

And you can soak someone up to 50 feet away.

herb 19:21

Or up to 350 feet away.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Hey, those use those used to be those used to be the toys, man. I used to love that stuff, man.

herb 19:28

Listen, it's about let me listen. Here's I'm gonna make my call again because I'm I'm doing a I'm doing a search for it, but I'm gonna give this to you because this is classic. This is what we need, my friends.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

You will not be able to stay home, brother. You will not be able to plug in, turn on, and cop out.

Juan 19:50

You will not be able to lose yourself on stag and skip out for beer during commercials because the regular see this stuff. It's cool.

herb 20:00

That's a cool little video, or cool little commercial. It's a great, listen. It's a great, it's a great uh Gil Heron, and it's been quoted for years. Revolution will not be televised. But we have to be here. We're here. We're here. That was uh that was uh Chuck D.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

My point is revolution. It has to be now. It's now this is crazy. $350 for one tournament.

Juan 20:27

The problem is people, the problem is people like we said, like Herb, you said it like I mean, when we first started this podcast, you gotta you gotta stop with your dollars. You wanna don't don't give them your dollars. You've said that thousands of times, and that's that's the case, you know. Hurt them by not going, you know, hurt them by not going. I mean, we'll see, like I say, what the nationals looks like with the tournament, what the uh the numbers look like and all that different stuff, but I mean it doesn't matter, it's it's going down.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

I mean at one point it felt like just us, and and just us, and this was going on, and we got suspended and all that stuff, and I third.

herb 21:03

Do you guys double consideration?

SPEAKER_02 21:05

This is this is spilling over to way more people and it has been affecting more and more people. When do you when when do because I I have my people that are close with me, my friends and coaches and people that I interact with and talk to within AAU and you know all that stuff like that? But when do some of these guys that are still currently in stop pretending like any of this is okay? Like it it ultimately affects the entire organization and will eventually affect you. It's only a matter of time. Like, why are we how it's only a matter of time? How are we sitting back and allowing this to happen? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Juan 21:45

Like, that one guy that that wrote that thing, that's basically what I'm gonna say happened to him. It it eventually it came around to him and he said, Enough's enough. I I like that's why I gave him I mean, a little late in my opinion, and but I know you're saying there's some you know prominent people that. Are on social media and stuff like that are high-five and everybody and stuff like that. But they gotta they just gotta step up and have some have some levels and and and do the right thing. But until they do it, the revolution will not be televised. We're gonna keep being here, you know, because you keep enabling them, you keep helping them out, you keep going on trips, you know, with them while everybody else has to pay. You're enabling them, you're doing their work for them. Which, yeah, I mean, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Uh they don't understand. And I and I and I that's the other part I realize sometimes that like I know history is history, and some people came into this world a little bit later than history. Someone I had a phone call earlier on my way home, and they reminded me, like, yeah, from 99 to this time, they understand what real tech wondrous and this and this and this. And the point they were trying to make was, you know, it's hard, not it's hard to know what you don't know. And when you're being fed lies and and and and false successes and and these ideologies behind what success is or what it looks like to quote unquote be successful, you might get lost in the sauce and you do goofy stuff like this, but this is not successful. None of this, none of this is successful. From the start of Taekwondo, the first thing you like, you don't cheat. Like, like, what is the the it's like what is the what is the purpose of cheating? You never want to get something and you almost want the other guy to be so formidable and ready for you. You I want to know you had a good training, so when you go to the match and we figure out who's the best, these guys are cheating and jumping through who just in.

Juan 23:29

I don't know how you feel good about like that. You cheated and you won't like how do you sleep at night? That's a grown man, a grown man with a little kid or a color belt or whatever. Like, you you cheated, you had the referee help you out. That's craziness, craziness, craziness. That's not a real man, that's not a real woman. I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

It's actually cheerful, it's actually like bruh. I don't even know how you show your face. I don't know how you march in there knowing what you know and go through with it like it's cool.

Juan 23:59

Yeah, I know you've talked about like you know, the the bad you know things that happened like in in the past and stuff like that, but that's why I keep saying, but this and now it you got you gotta work hard at cheating now, like you know what I'm saying? Before they just did it and shut up. Oh, look at the water, you know, things you always say. Like like you didn't have to work hard at it before you they just did it and it was gone. There were two terms a year that mattered, there was no social media there. You gotta work hard to be a cheater right now, and there's a lot of them out there, a lot of people that are just drinking the juice, getting the hookup here and there, and everything is okay. It's crazy, it's crazy.

What The Membership Must Do

herb 24:40

You know, again, it goes back to are you willing? What are you willing to do? What are you willing to do? That's it. It's not it's not really a question anymore. Now, if you understand that, what are you willing to do? Question is as an organization, as a person, what are you willing to do? Are you willing to change? Are you willing to step up? And historically there's no more changing.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

All these guys gotta go. The whole from both sides, everyone's gotta go.

herb 25:07

Everybody, no one gets to stay. I'm not saying they do, I'm just saying that it takes the membership to step up, it takes the people to step up. And if the people aren't willing to step up, then you're gonna run into this over and over again, and then you're gonna continue to see this. And it's unfortunate, but it is kind of what happens. So, what are you willing to do? That's really the question. What are you, as an organization, what as a person, what are you willing to do?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

You got three Olympic medalists that have been in this system for a long time, all kind of like congruent to each other. Like, you know, we talk about, you know, when I first met you guys, how I interacted, how we are, all these things. And all of all of us have reached the Olympic podium, and we started all as white belts, and we've coached people, we developed people, we've been part of organizations and done all these great things. And we're sitting here telling you this isn't right.

Juan 25:55

We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

It has to be something to that. Has to be something to it. Like, no, I think it. I mean, I don't is there is there another podcast that got three Olympic medalists on it in any more part like is there? I think this might be close to original.

herb 26:09

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm talking jump. I saw a post from Mundo Taekwondo or whatever, where they equated showing up at the Olympics as an accomplishment. And I was like, That's a thing now. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, hold on. Let me be quick. Every four every four years, every four years, there are 10,500 athletes who make Olympic teams around the world. That's not the medal count. That's how many get to call themselves Olympians because they make a team. That's great, nothing wrong with that. But until you hit the field, and until you win a match, and until you win a bunch of matches, you you can be an Olympian, but you didn't win anything. You, you know, that's not enough. And that same individual is tick tocking, wick walking, and and and losing, continuing to lose. But I there there are people that show up, like we've talked about this, they show up for the warmups. So that's a warm-up guy. And it's unfortunate because talented athlete, but bad coaches, bad coaching, bad systems. And by the way, he's not helping himself. He's spending time making fake shoe commercials for a fake shoe company. Just to be clear, in the ecosystem of shoes in the world, in martial art equipment, the worst company, the last in the room is Tusa. Tusa, who you go, you said Tusa. Somebody say, God bless you in China. You know what the Chinese company is, you know what Nike is, you know what Adidas is. Tusa, Tusa kissed my ass. That's what Tusa is. So that's you're gonna you're gonna conflate yourself with that. Go work for Century. That's a hundred million dollar company. We've both worked for Century at Macho. So I this stuff just drives me insane. I'm watching, I'm like, dude, come on now.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

I think they're trying to give this kid, I think Tusa is trying to give this kid a chance. I don't think it's even on them. I think they're just again, I think.

herb 27:58

Listen, I know, listen, Tusa, the most racist company in the world, Tusa. Worst. I could tell the story, I'm not gonna tell the story. I don't do business with them anymore because they they have one, they bleed one color, and that color ain't us. So just so we're clear, Tusa, the boy, ruined his father's company. I know you guys like him. Tusa can Tusa this. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah, I don't know.

herb 28:24

Can I say all that out loud? Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Oh no, so they made a statement, they made

The Academy Brand Problem

SPEAKER_02 28:30

they made a statement on their way in, and I I think I'm smart enough to like I take words very seriously when people say things. I kind of, if I'm a part of that group or something they were talking about, they said they said that they want to come and help this country, you know, become a culture of not just make the national team, but be the best in the world. And I took really big offense to that. I think I've said it a few times. I because I I've been around a lot of national team members in the United States that I've traveled with, that I've trained with, that I've interacted with, that I have that that wasn't that wasn't the that's not what it felt like. That's not that's not what was going on. Did we win? Did we lose? Did we compete? Was it good? Was it bad? Sure. Were there a few people that made the national team like you know cameoed and then they were out? Sure, for a hundred percent. But the core people that I was around, and the people that we you know we looked at as like contenders and people that were in this sport for real, committed. They didn't think that.

Juan 29:23

Even if they didn't win, even if they didn't get as successful as they wanted to be, they were they were trying. I I was I was on a lot and was around the organization for a long time, especially when you were around TJ. And I would I would agree with that. There was a few that were kind of like, like you said, made some cameos and had a great day, or whatever, or or weren't even you know at the development level yet where they could actually really make a difference or kind of like upset some people, but they were trying, they were they were working hard to be a national team member. So I agree with you. That's that's such a slap in the face to an organization that you don't even know anything about. Zero about at the time you had been here once for a seminar, twice to talk, well, you know, second time to talk with uh CEO.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Who who but but you know what's crazy? Who told you that? Because yeah, you you couldn't have seen who out of their mouth in this organization at some point because it had to have been said, right like I don't I don't think you just come up with that, you know what I mean? Like you had to be coerced into that direction or something. Like, how did you get there? But I I'm gonna go back the other way. I look at our makeup now, and we were I'm gonna go circumvent the national team. These kids in our country feel successful when they enter the room of this academy. That's what we turned this into. You are at a level of success if you somehow get selected and make it there. If the coach decides that you're good enough to be there, then all of a sudden you're on every news post, you're you're you're you're you're every you're the person everybody's watching because you're getting the most funding. You're you're literally you're flying around the coach. And I'm not talking about the athletes, I'm just talking about in general when it comes to what we've turned this view of success in in this entire country.

Juan 31:03

That's a good point. It wasn't just being the national team, it was being part of that group because just people out there aren't on the national team.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

There you go. Yeah, sorry, there you go. Because some of them aren't even on the national team, but they had this like so so so from a culture you came in to try to quote unquote save to where we are now is where I have an issue as well. I just don't understand. This is what this feels like to me. And I try sometimes not to say what I feel when it comes to things like this because it's I don't know what you guys are thinking. Some of this shit's crazy to me. It doesn't, I can't piece it together where it makes sense, but to to understand what they've turned our entire system into is crazy. When we talk about keeping our juniors and our cadets through a certain level, kids are turning their back. Early development seniors want to turn their back from this sport because they're going, my counterparts are in this program and they're they're they're selling it to us. I think I just saw something on uh Facebook or something the other day about uh Steven and I saying you can join in and be a part, but we plan to make the best athletes in America in this program. And bum, bum, bum, us, us, us, I, I, I. This is what we are doing. They don't care about none of y'all. You guys are just the cash cow catalyst to get them there. That's right. And we're all doing it. We're all doing it because I still believe that like I still gotta teach what I think is right to my guys and my and the guys that train with me. And think of interact.

Juan 32:25

Think about like the the the whole division of everything. And I and I don't want to beat this up. We can kind of move on, but like now you have the academy logo, you have the academy team. You it's it's 100% separated from USA Taekwondo. It's it's not US team, it's the academy team. They have their own black and yellow logo, they have their own shield. It has nothing to do with USAT. It should be USAT's national team, USAT national center. It literally is their own brand. That's what Steve McNally has allowed to happen to the organization. He doesn't care about the organization. Apparently, he cares only about the academy. That's that's the hard part for me. That's the hard part for me because if you're the boss and that's what you're you're letting happen, that can't be good for the organization. And you can you can say, well, we have the best resources, we have the best things, okay, but that should be for everybody, and it shouldn't be branded as something different. It should be for all of us. I got a young kid, a young child that's just into the cadet. That should be for her if she wants to do it. But like, it's not because people think they got to play the game, people have to be selected. It's just why can't you just be the best, win, and have an invitation out there? It's again, we're beating up a dead horse. We've said this many times. You know, clearly they're not going to change. Clearly, they have their their four or five people that they're gonna try to ride into the Olympics, you know, borrowing a person here or there, they're not quite sure what's gonna happen. And and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

And their partners, and their partners AAU over here flick fixing elections all over the country doing goofy stuff. The people they chose to work with. The people, the people that are they're promoting each other. It's it's messy, no. I don't mean this is crazy. It it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. I know again, I know you said we're beaten up, but that is, but this is this is sickening. And I think yesterday was the the icing, the the cherry on top for me.

Juan 34:35

I you had to be there see it. You had to be there see it.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

You had to see it, you had to feel it. You had to watch people make decisions that they didn't want to make. Like, you know, you're you're just being told this is the right thing, you don't even know what this entails. Yeah, he out there promising scholarships and money, a pool of money for the athletes in this area. What are you talking about? A you what are you like what are you what are you talking about? Nobody in that room could have believed anything you said. It's impossible. You make no sense. And then he called it. And then he starts talking about, yeah, you know, it's crazy. We have Olympic coaches and Olympic something in this state that are not being utilized. And I and I'm like, who's what are we talking about? We're talking about academy coaches? Who you talking about? You talking about the the uh the another person that's in the room that's also on this side of the room? Who you're talking about? You he's just running his mouth talking about he's gonna do this, and he he's the guy for the job, is crazy.

Juan 35:45

He truly believes it. And and you know what? He got the votes, 22 of them to 19. I think that was the number. Okay, and you know, all those votes, the people that voted for him. I mean, we're gonna see come support time, come come help time, come, you know, organize time if they're there. Maybe they will be. I doubt it. And if they are, yeah, they're there for a year, you know, not for not for too much longer. So, I mean, it's gonna be

Grand Prix Rome Point Reset

Juan 36:16

anyway. Let's let's get off this. I it's funny because I didn't even think to talk about it like that deep and stuff like that. But um, let's talk about this Grand Prix because um we had Roma, yeah. You know, uh well, let's get into it. We could talk about it a little bit later, like you know, kind of like what it means and stuff. But it's the first GP, point reset, June 1st. Uh, you know, two years into the Olympics is the first major event. And what was your and I I'm gonna break that, we're gonna talk about the winners, but what was your first overall impression? Overall impression.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

They changed the venue, right? That wasn't the same.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

They did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

That hurt my soul. It's the same location, it's just it is. I know, but it's like I know, but it didn't look as like deep. Yeah, you know what I mean. I think that floor was a little bit more level with the where the stands are for sure. You know what I mean? Gave it like this appeal, but obviously Rome's freaking cool. Um I hate the hogoose.

Electronic Scoring Looks Broken

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Can we start there? We can start there. It might finish there. I hate to I hate the hogoose. Listen, I don't understand the hogus.

Juan 37:26

I I didn't like I I didn't see I I wasn't watching, but someone posted like it's crazy young that there was a flyweight match that had 200, like I think they said there was like 200 points between the two of them. Like Rome. I don't think it could have been that much, but it was like there was like one one round, like 36 of you know, 35, you know, or 42. It was just crazy. And then you watch other matches and no points went up. Like the inconsistency drove me nuts. I was just like, I I I didn't even know what to say. I'm like, I watched one player. I watched one player every time he came, and I was like, what? Wait, I I couldn't even understand it. And the other guy's kicking him just as hard, if not harder. I couldn't understand what was going on. For once, I kind of felt like you young. I'm like, I I don't know what's happening. It was, you know, watching it on on film live, it just was really, really awkward. And I didn't like it, I didn't like it at all.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Um, and then I'm in the the WT chat with the coaches, yeah. And there's this talk of, and I've seen it and I felt it, and I'm in my chair going, no, we gotta be better than this. This can't be true. It's my eyes are tricking me. My my my guy's not turning his foot over enough. I'm like trying to convince myself I'm not crazy. But they're talking about one hogu working better than the other. Yeah, during the same, like, and I've seen it. We've all seen it. We're all like, man, that hogu's dead, man. That hogu's this. You know, we just keep going using these hogus over and over and over and over again. Yeah, because when I think that we don't know, we will never know.

Juan 38:59

Yeah, so when I was young, like I thought this was crazy. So there's it's a final Korea versus Italy, 58. Olympic champion versus you know, this really young upstart, you know, Korean kid who's pretty good too. Very good. And like as soon as they they test, as soon as the match chart, the the the Italian coach stands up and says, you know, he wants to check the the chest protectors. So his player kicks with the right leg, douche, right leg douche, right leg douche, nothing. Kicks with the left leg, douche, it scores. They're like, hey, that side is dead, it's not working. So they do it again, they do it again, they change out the hogus. He comes there, he kicks it again, kicks it again, kicks it again, kicks with his left leg this side, and his left leg this side, and it works. So it turns out that his right foot sensors are dead all of a sudden. Now they worked all day long, but all of a sudden, they're not working. And TJ, you remember uh in in in the uh Grand Prix Rome, there's always like weird stuff going on. Phantom points, crazy. I don't know if it's the outdoors, I don't know if it's the venue. I'm not sure what it was, but it was always some weird stuff. But that's crazy. This kid fought all day, he's in his fourth match or fifth match, at least fourth match, with the right. And all of a sudden, it doesn't score. It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Like, how do you they're not they they everyone had their own socks though, right? Like it doesn't like the weird sock sharing and weird stuff.

Juan 40:32

And and then and then they took it off. They took it off and put a new one on, and he went out and scored like 97,000 points.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

It was juiced, it was juiced, it was juiced. Yeah, the the high scoring matches doesn't do it for me. It doesn't make it more, and again, I always try to put myself in the shoes of the person that said, and it's like they're trying to make it more fancy for the spectators. I just don't get it.

Juan 40:55

Yeah, it's like more confusing stuff. You know, I you know, watching the the the last, you know, talking about the last you know, 10

Passivity Penalties And Endgame Chaos

Juan 41:02

second things. I thought the referees, generally speaking, called it decently. They didn't over like I saw some people what I thought were playing defense, and I thought for sure if it was in the uh East Open, they would have got called for not fighting. You know, they were picking their leg up, canceling, moving back, counterattacking, and the referees didn't call not for fighting, you know. So I think that was pretty good. It seemed like they called it when they went out of bounds or they fell or something like that. I still don't understand because the rule says for passitivity, but the person attacking falls, they get one, they get minus two anyway. So it's crazy because it's not they should just basically say, forget about the rule. If there's a deduction in the last 10 seconds, it's minus two for it, or I'm sorry, it's plus two for the other person. They gotta get rid of this. That's where I'm kind of getting caught up on this passitivity.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

That's crazy.

herb 41:57

Passivity, passivity, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

I think I think Grandmaster, you wrote something on Facebook earlier today about getting more than five rules, and then it's not a fight anymore, then it's it's more of a game. And I and I and I and I and I thought about that for a bit, and I'm like, man, that has to be the case. Like, there's no other combat sports that puts all these constraints and in the last 10 seconds, bonus rounds, and if I hit you with the same shot, but I spin, it's plus three. Like, it's it's a rage. Combat death blow. And I know I'm a little bad because I hate six points to the face. I hate that we you could be winning a whole round controlling bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, doing your thing, and someone spins and toe touches you, or even hits you for that matter. You got caught with one. Should that mean I lose the whole round after all the things that I've done?

Juan 42:46

But go before that, TJ. Go before that. Let's say, let's say that you're uh oh my gosh, I'm looking at the game. It's 113, 111 with 9.4 seconds left. They just hit a three-pointer to cut it to two. Uh Antonio. San Antonio's uh New York just uh hit the three-pointer to make it a two-point game with 9.4 seconds left. No, I'm I'm gonna go back to, but let's say it was it's three to three, TJ, and you hit a spin kick, and all of a sudden now you get six points. Now it's nine to three. Like, and it's just I don't know. I yeah, I hate it. Again, boxing, you get jabs in the face, it's more than a body punch.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yeah, but like if there's more than five, I mean, we got too many rules now. Tens like even like you said, even if it is for both people, like I'm getting double penalties because the last 10 seconds, because because you made these rules that say because you want us to fight more.

Upsets And A New Generation

Juan 43:37

What one thing I'll say, like um, I I I watched a lot of the matches, and I watched a lot of the matches. I was exhausted. But um Trocendo from Egypt, well, from Spain, who coaches for Egypt right now, in one of his interview, he said something really I thought nice and important. He Said there was a lot of new people out there winning, and he said it wasn't because they were just winning, it's because their level is high. And I thought about that too. There was a lot of people. Listen, the eight 68 world champion who smoked everybody lost his second match to Burkina Faso. Like the kid's not bad, he's tricky, but he shouldn't. Tough, tough. And that guy won his first match. So world champion won his first match two to one against Chinese Taipei, and it was a tough out. Um the Olympic champion 58, Teijun Park, he lost his you know quarterfinal match to quarterfinal second match, quarterfinal, I think, to you know, Vito, a former you know Olympic champion in 21. So there was a lot. I mean, the uh the girl from uh Belgium, who's a you know world champion, she lost you know before the medal rounds. Caden Cunningham, Olympic silver medal, lost his you know, match to a Korean in the quarterfinals. Um there's just I mean, so many people, so many good fighters lost, but some of these new guys were the ones that take them out, which is interesting to me. You know what I'm saying? It's it could be a whole new generation of people, the people that we have seen that were good. Um maybe, maybe these young kids are just too much for them now. Maybe, you know, so it was uh it was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Vito no, the Thailand kid. Oh, Thailand kid is very yeah, he's he's he's young. I believe that 68th division was um actually it was wild. I it was wild. 68 was wild and 80 was wild to me. I I think I I just think that um have to agree. I I don't know. So let's go back to the part that I like because I know we just complained about the hoose and we talked about a score being goofy. I think I can appreciate when I see someone's ability to control the space, control the time, and control the tempo, kicking twice, getting a little bit deeper into the space and kind of finding a shot, like forcing their will, and it looks smooth, it looks aggressive, looks like it makes sense. You know what I mean? So I I think there was a lot, I think the level is pretty high. I think you had a lot of guys that were okay with standing in front of each other and and fighting with each other, and not necessarily having to go back when you know I liked the same thing.

Juan 46:22

I I like the young blood, I like the you know, I felt like there was still some people missing. Iran was missing, you know. There was Tunisia was missing, there was some some some big players that were missing, but I think overall it seemed like again, everybody was feeling each other out. Like, where are we gonna go? And this these hopes were so a lot like Charlotte, they were just flying up points all over the point, all over the place, and then the next match they weren't, and so I think people were a little bit like it was when they were flying, they were flying. The people recognized it and they kicked a lot. When they weren't flying, people were like, you know, a little bit more conservative, which was a was just strange. But I like that there was a bunch of new kids, like you said, standing in front of each other and and seeing if they could find their way, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Um I don't hate when we had started talking about like fighting the system because that's what you just said. Like, if the system was doing this, you're doing this, if the system's doing this. I hear like I always hear a talk like, oh, you gotta score like this on Dado, you gotta score like this on KP and P. And I try to stay sustain from that because I'm like, I can't make myself believe that's a thing. And I know it's probably true, I get it. It scores a certain way, you gotta hit the top of the foot of the. I know, I know, I know, I got it. I'm not saying I'm an idiot, but like it's just I never I can't wrap my mind around that. That's what we're doing. We're fighting to the system, we're fighting to the system and we're fighting to the rules. That's it.

Monkey Kicks And Gaming The Rules

Juan 47:39

Absolutely hated, and I cannot believe that it's weird how we go in these cycles. How many monkey kicks to the body just they get in the clinch and people go boom, slap to the side. I'm like, I thought that was banned, and we had gotten rid of that for for for so long.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

But they're doing like everything else. That like the referees have been told, I know, and they had to have been told to ignore it. It doesn't exist, don't call monkey kicks because there's too many of them.

Juan 48:08

It was crazy. It was crazy. I was just like, I was just shocked that like every single time it whether it was Korea or Italy or USA or Jordan or Egypt, I just it didn't matter who it was. I'm like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_02 48:24

That looks like a whole going away video for the monkey kick and everything. I was so happy when they took that off. I remember that being a thing. I did a whole video about them removing that. Yeah, and we are back here again, and it's okay now. It has to be okay. I need I need them to put out a statement saying monkey kicks are officially allowed again. That's all.

Juan 48:44

Just say it. And I love to hear the referee say, like, oh well, no, they they made a mistake. Everybody's making a mistake. They must have made a conservat to say, don't call that in the clinch.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

They don't call monkey kicks. I've I've seen at every level, every tournament, like different places. It don't matter. They're just letting monkey kicks go. Like Pen Am Championships, they did a little bit when people were trying to go up the back when they were grabbing a lot, but no, they're not.

Juan 49:07

Listen, I I was nah, I'm I'm rationalizing. I was okay when people were getting into the clinch and their leg was already swinging into the body, like a short swing kick or to the face. I was letting it. But these guys are in the clinch and literally going like that, like that Iranian guy did back in Chillibinks when he invented that thing, and everyone's like nobody knew what the heck to do. And man, they let that they let that slide a lot here. That's the thing I did not like at all.

Winners Standouts And Surprises

Juan 49:34

Well, let's talk about some of the winners, man, because 58 was won by veto. You know, like I said, he beat that young kid that I think he's a high school kid from Korea. It was a tough match, it was three rounds. Um, I think he he pulled it off. I mean, same thing, a lot of points are going up. I had no idea where they were going up. So, but you know, give credit to him. Um, I don't think any other than Tai Jun Park, the Korean guy.

herb 49:57

Hold on, hold on, hold on a second, hold on a second. You guys have disrespected the monkey, and you cannot disrespect the monkey. I'm listening, I'm listening because there is a good monkey, and there is a good monkey kick. This monkey actually kicks better than most of the current players.

SPEAKER_11 50:16

Spinning kick, spinning kick, spinning kick. Come on, kidney her, kiddy her, split kick, one more kick.

herb 50:24

He hits harder. That's Charlie the monkey. He does self-defense, too. Just so you can listens. He said roundhouse, round us, and the monkey did it. So before you get all crazy about it.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

My boy trying to figure out what's going on.

herb 50:40

That boy is better, better than most current players. That hook kick, if he hits you with that hook kick, you would go night night. You would go night night. That is Charlie the monkey, been around a long time.

Juan 50:53

That's night night for shizzle. Nah, I but uh, I mean, for the men 68, I think was crazy. I think he was won by an upstar guy. He won the European Championships. I believe he won the under-21 worlds, the kid from Turkey, you know, who's just getting stronger and stronger. And that side of the bracket was nasty. They had the Uzbekistan kid that a Korean kid that was good. They had the world champion was good. I mean, they had some tough people on that side. And and remember, I said this before there's gonna be a Korean kid that's that's really good that uh that didn't make these grand these first couple grand prix. I don't know if he made the second one. I'm gonna have to check. He's gonna be I think the grand prix is gonna get harder as we go, like I mentioned. I think Korea will be a little bit harder, especially because it's KP and P. So you're gonna have to actually kick a little bit more. This system should have rewarded some people, you know, like some Americans that could actually touch, touch, touch, you know, but I mean they fell. So that was that was not that was interesting. And you know, we you called somebody back at the world championships in uh and uh in China, TJ. The the Russian kid had lost like early, had lost like in the round of 16 to Uzbekistan, I think. To Uzbekistan, which was we just couldn't figure it out, and I think it was a fate uh it did us a favor a little bit on the American side, but that kid fought the uh you know, American kid and beat him pretty handily and beat the 74 world champion, you know, pretty nicely, and then it lost in the finals to the Turkish kid. So, to my point, that Turkish kid is fighting really well right now and um definitely seems to be on this trend going up, and that's kind of scary. It's kind of scary as you're moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

So um yeah, that's the 68 bracket gets a little thick, yeah. I think, like you said, it's gonna get thicker as we go on. Like you said, with miss just missing Iran and missing that. I mean, all the divisions without Iran, obviously you still gotta work for, but you throw them in there, and it's a little bit. I mean, you talk about 58, like 58.

Juan 52:50

You throw 58 in there. Come on, that's a wrap.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Yeah, yeah, he's he's bullying people right now. I just yeah, it's I think it's a little fortunate, but like you know, I I think I still think it's going in a direction. I think I think this first Baron Prix was I say entertaining to watch. What did you think about 80?

Juan 53:08

What did you think about 80? I mean, that was a surprise. A Spanish kid beating uh CJ and the heat.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

You know what? I'm gonna he didn't go away, he like stayed in the space a lot.

Juan 53:19

Listen, against CJ, he lost the first round, whatever, 18 to 1. And then second round he kind of stole in. Third round, he he was winning all the way through, and he, you know, he hung on. But I I'm gonna say something. I know sometimes we get like little letdowns and we shouldn't, you know. I think there was a a little like, hey, this guy's a 74 guy. This guy's new, he's gonna fold, he's gonna crack. And he didn't. He he was a consummate dado fighter. He knew how to score those points and he he weathered the storm. And I'm gonna I go back to in Guadalajara. Do you remember when the Chino, our Brazil boy, 74, beat Tunisia, beat the eventual Olympic champion? He beat him in '74 in the semifinal. He went to the final against Spain against Queseda. And I'm like, it's a wrap. This guy's small, this guy's not strong. And he just picked Nachino apart, you know, and and won the and won the fight. We lost the world championship, got a silver medal. I kind of felt the same thing with my, you know, our guy in Hike. He was struggling all day. This system is not good for him. He's not a tiki-tack fighter. He's a heavy-footed kid. He you come, he up bots, you come, he potted chuggings, you come, he back kicks. He has a heavy shot. So this was not suited for him. And he he went three rounds, I think, every match. Like he struggled. But I don't know what that says. It's like I'm gonna put my good spin on it. My good spin is he's a young kid. He's just getting all this shine from everybody. Everybody wants to talk to him, everybody wants to see him. Um, and it's his first real, like, you know, series at the as a world champion. And he hasn't been fighting his best, but he's still been figuring out a way to win. He won the US Open, he won the Pan American Championships. We talked about that, you know. And here he gets to the final. He makes a final in his, you know, basically his first grand prix. He he fought a grand prix before, but he was this was before the Olympics. And it was, I wouldn't say he was just literally getting his feet wet. So for me, I was proud that he was able to do that in those under those circumstances. Um, granted, he didn't fight well in the final, so he got picked apart pretty badly by the Spanish guy. I can I can take my hats off to it. And um, he got whooped, he got beat, you know, and so it's something that we'll have to go back. And here's something there's a reason why we're good on KPP because we have KP. We don't have dado, and we're just getting it now. So hopefully in the future, we'll be a little bit more accustomed to it when it comes to dato in in in Paris, and then dato, I think dado is the last, is a Grand Prix final, too. I have to check on that. But I I have this thing, and I and I got it from the great coach Pat Riley, and he talks about surviving success and surviving you know, thunderbolts is one one thing that Rick Patino, a basketball coach, talks about. And it's true, like when you get to a high level, like sometimes the climb is easier than staying in than being up there, right? The climb because you're you're like you're chasing people, you're you're trailblazing. And then when you get up there, you got everybody firing shots at you. And I I think that's where Enhike is right now, and he's done a pretty good job. He hasn't fought his best at all this year, but he's made he's won two goals in a final. You know, I think that's pretty pretty decent for a young man. You know, I mean, it seems like he's he's keeping his head down, and you know, hopefully we can keep him on that path. So I was pretty, I was very proud of him to to get through there. I don't know what you thought, TJ. You know, you watched some of his matches, and I I yeah I I think the match that that freaked me out, I'm I'm gonna say it, was CJ's match, his second match against the Afghanistan refugee guy that trains in GB, lives out in California. He's nice, yo, super nice guy. Um his family lives in Southern California somewhere when I was talking to him. Um, but that guy beat him easy, that beat him pretty good the first round. In second round, he was beating him very good with five points up with two seconds left. That guy could have fallen out of bounds, he could have jumped in and got touched in the head or get back kicked. He could have did whatever he wanted to do, and he moves back, and CJ does a not a butt step on the ground and a double motion and a little flick in the back, and they gave him six points. And I'm not sure. In my opinion, it wasn't six points, but the coach didn't card it, so guess what? It was six points. But I would have been my ass would have been played.

SPEAKER_02 58:03

Uh that made me feel like the Olympic Games with uh Cisei and Latello at the end of that Olympic final. That one, that one, when you got the gold medal in your pocket, it's in your pocket, you're on your way home. It's time to take a shower, go to sleep, wake up the next day, and just like that, silver from a spin, from a uh body spin. I think that kind of went high and he got all the points for it.

Juan 58:25

Crazy. I just think that for that guy, I mean, I like that guy and he trains well, but he honestly he deserved to win that fight. He did so well, and then he lost the third round 16-15. But like, I just like you got your chance to again be one of the superstars of the of the of the you know, the media superstars of of the sport. You got a chance to put him to sleep and in two rounds. You don't give a guy a third whack at you. I thought the coach should have carded.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

People think like that. You think people think like that? You said you don't give him a third, you like are you you think we're playing for keeps like that this early? Because in my brain, you're always playing for keeps, obviously. That's why, you know, we talk about I know, I know, but like that's a that was a crazy drop. Let's just from that was tough. We had a lot, he had a lot of decisions in that match, you know what I mean. He had a lot of choice, a lot of options, and it was bad. Whatever was bad.

Juan 59:16

I think that was a bad. I don't know. I I just for me in this day and age, you know, you there's not a whole bunch of things that you can't you can card. So I would have definitely carded that to say it wasn't a spin. It gives you it gives your guy a chance to win the match right there. We don't even see a third round. And if you lose it, whatever. You know what? You go, you go fight the third round. It is what it is. So that was a little tricking to me. And then the heavyweight was you know, was another uh Sef from uh the number one seed from Egypt. He went out, you know, in the quarters too. Um, that was a little bit of a surprise, but that Russian is a big boy, man. He's beating everybody. He beat, you know, the Italian uh Alessio, who's obviously a crowd favorite, super, yeah, super charismatic in the ring and stuff like that. Those boys are those boys are they love fighting in Rome, bro. They love fighting in Rome. So I thought that was interesting. How about that 49 girl, that little girl from Russia? She won again. She's crazy. Her legs are in the way of everything. Talking about the controlling space and everything. I should find the I got a picture of her on the stand. She's literally like this, and all the girls are like this. She's she and she's not even just like oh smaller than those girls. She's small for the division. I think she's is about the size of my daughter. Like, and she kicks, she runs kick, she she is, she's nasty. That little girl is something else. That was pretty cool to see. What do you think about uh 57 women young this girl Maria Clara from from Brazil? She hasn't she hasn't fought in seven months. She had a surgery, she had surgery on her hip, she had a really bad hip. She hasn't fought one tournament. She goes there and waxes everybody. She don't lose a round. This is a bad girl. I thought there was a time to beat her, it was right now. I'm just like, she's she don't have her distance, she don't have her timing, she hasn't been in a real big game, nothing. And she looked like she didn't skip a beat. She beat Korea in the final, like it was like yeah, two rounds of nothing. I was just like, damn. That's pretty impressive. Very impressive. And then it's consistent. Yeah, um in the 67. Who won 67? Martin. Martin. Yes, yes, yes, yes. She went in the 32. She was pretty dominant. That was pretty easy for she's from Ger from Hungary, trains in Spain. She was pretty awesome. She won, I think, pretty easy.

herb 1:01:57

How many American how many Americans won? Not many.

Juan 1:02:02

It was uh three guys. No, four guys. Rodriguez, Rodriguez, four guys and one girl. No, two girls. Two girls. Listen, I think I think Faith had a a good chance. I mean, her her quarterfinal was against that young girl from um uh Canada, Ella Brewster, who is tall. She's a 62, she's very tall. I thought that I thought that Faith was gonna be able to outgame her. You know what I'm saying? I thought she would kind of figure out the distance and stuff, but this girl is long. She's long for 62. Yeah, she's tough. She's a tough girl. She's not gonna back down. I was, I mean, I was a little surprised that she made the wait, but she did. And she, I think, again, I I I've been truthful with my guys. When they fight good, I'll tell you they fight good. When they fight bad, I'll tell you when they fight bad. And I and I can say that about other people. Sometimes people think I'm hating on it. I think she had a very fortunate draw. I don't think she ran into any any static, you know, other than than faith. And you know, she got past faith. So, you know, I give her credit, and then she lost her semifinal to uh to Korea, and then Maria whooped up Korea. So, you know, I think that was the case, you know, for for some people. And that's why I said it was it was weird because I thought it was a a decent field for most divisions, but then there was just some weird playouts, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

Weird playouts. I gotta I gotta go back and watch. Um uh coach Red Mark told me about this plus 67 Ivoryan girl from Ivory Coast? Yeah, I heard I got I haven't watched that match that I heard she's the truth. I heard she's actually I saw her fight at like Dutch Open somewhere else. But but he told me like you know, at one point she decided to like stop fighting juniors so she could fight seniors. She only wanted to do seniors, and uh it was just cool to see her show up on uh on the first place podium. I haven't watched any of the matches yet. I gotta go back and watch it.

Juan 1:03:59

It's easy. She's easy. Easy, she's tall all day. She's tall, she's athletic, she can spin, she can kick, she's she's not like kind of just big girling it, keeping people awake. She can fight. No, no, no, no, no. She's the truth, man. She's the real deal. That was easy, easy money. Like straight qualifying straight directly to the Olympics. I'll guarantee it. Right now, calling it. Calling it. It's over. Calling it. So and there's some there were some people that fought at the Grand Prix and then went to Neureburg to fight at the uh European Presidents' Cup, too. The 57s were able to, and the 67s were able to. So that was crazy, you know. Then there's some people like Camila Salim tried to do it, but you know, she came and she did fight, she didn't win, but it was uh I mean fought there first and fought in Rome. Yeah, she tried to do both. So it actually kind of good because she's 46 there and she's 49 there. So I don't know if she loses weight for 46, but if she does, it wasn't a problem making the weight for 49. But that's a tall ask, you know, for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

You know, it shouldn't be like that.

Rule Changes Without A North Star

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

It should never, that should never be uh um coach Salim actually made a good point going back to you know, we were talking about what we thought about Rome. I saw the same little video and he posted that we shouldn't be, you know, changing the rules two weeks out or telling people we're doing two weeks out, and it's hard for him, and that's what I I like because he said it it's hard for him to like 100 pass judgment whether it's good or his bad because we just don't have enough information on it. I think that's true. I think he's being modest a little bit because you know I know he's a he's a pure fighter, I know he's a very very knowledgeable, understandable of what this game is and what it what it what it was and what it what it should be and what actual fighting is. So I I I I I thought that was kind of a cool comment. Cool comment.

Juan 1:05:49

I think it was extremely well said. So, Coach Salim, you were uh you're saying you use the word modest. I think he was he was smart and Calculated in his in his um, he wasn't gonna sit there and say, It's great, we like the new rules, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He said, We, you know, we need time, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I think it was an amazing statement, you know, versus other people saying the new rules are great and and we love it. And it, you know, courage is fighting all the way to the end. I'm like, what are you saying? Like, stop that. Like, that that's just ridiculous. And and then there were some WT officials that said some things, and you know, of course, they they're behind the rules, but they even admitted that we still have to make some tweaks and changes. And I'm sitting there in my brain going, just by you admitting that shows that like two weeks two years out, a year and a half away from full qualification, and we're fixing and tweaking the rules.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

I just want to know. I just want to know right now, they can fix, they can tweak. I just want to know that there's a master plan. What what is what is their perfect picture of what taekwondo is supposed to look like? I just want to know that. You know, because I know we you know we always talk about them changing and the admin rules, doing all this crazy stuff. I just want to know where we're going. Can I give you mine? Yes.

Juan 1:07:10

Here's my leave the electronic over. And I think this was I I really believe that this is what they thought was gonna happen. Take the fighters from 95, take the fighters from 2000, take the fighters from 2004, and they fight the same way, they stand the same way, they do the same things, except for you don't have referees, you have electronics on. But that's not what happened. People realize that when you run in, I can just go. People realize I can just put my guard here, you kick the crap out of my arms, and it's not gonna score. Then people realize they could go like this. The Europeans realized they could twist and flop, and then you they just found out ways to beat the system. The athletes were smarter than the system, the athletes were smarter than the people that made the rules, the coaches were smarter than everybody because they put together the plans, and here we are. It in every time they come up with a new rule, we come up with a new strategy. Canceling. When people first said, you know what, you can kick that leg, people said, you know what? If I cancel and just slash you underneath, I can score. If I put my leg on top of you and you put your leg down, I can flop down and I can score. I can axe kick the body. An axe kick was meant for the face, but when people lean back and their hands are here, they can just drop their foot and they can score. People could do a hook kick when they're in the clinch, like a little donkey kick to wrap around for the backside because it just hits the back flick. Like they're just the coaches and athletes are too smart. And so I think the perfect world is fight like people fought in 1997, 1995, 96, 97, maybe 2000, 2004. The same power game, double kicking, you know, 2008, maybe, you know, have a Gabriel Mercedes fighting on this system, have a Chumu Yen fighting on the system, have a Hadi fighting on this system.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

I think in 2012, it was a little bit, it was it was still new. It was degrading a bit, but it was still a bit, like people were still like trying to fight a little bit, you know. And then after that, 2013 on everyone just started getting taller and longer. And and then we go back to the and then the rules starts to change where like I said, you can hold your leg up as long as you want, you know, you can do all these things, and you're right, it was the athletes, it was the coaches, it was all that stuff. It's just so imagine any of that from a cancer.

Juan 1:09:39

Look at the male winners in 2000 uh uh uh in '68 was Servette and Denishenko were in there, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

Yes, yeah.

Juan 1:09:46

And and Servette was, you know, come on, a consummate old school person. Oh, what is it? Denishenk 2012. You're you're here. No, it was uh him, Iran, me, and uh oh, so okay, oh yeah, and uh and and uh the Afghanistan boy. All four of you guys were old school fighters. Yeah, could you use the front leg? Uh but uh Baghari was the uh old school fighter, he's from the the old era. Yeah, they farmed sure. Think think about think about nobody actually think about Sebastian. Sebastian from uh Argentina, he dude was part of chuggy back kick, you know, defensive double kick. You know, like think about that era. They people, you're right. There was still that because it started 2008 to 2012, people weren't off the deep end, like nobody was, you know, you know, crazily doing that kind of stuff. A few female divisions, but even in that, you had Wu, you had uh what's her name? Um Brigitte in 40 in 49, you know. Obviously, uh Jay Jones had a nasty front leg, but it was like a psychic, psychic up out, fast front leg. It wasn't like like you could have real real weak. 67 was was paired, was still, you know, kind of bulk.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Yeah, there were still kickers. There were still kickers. I think it went to about then, and then whatever happened with the rules right after that. Because I know it was a height thing, I know all that stuff, but whatever happened right after that was you know, you know what happened to that.

Juan 1:11:17

That's where Dado took over. Because before it was La Just, and Legust sucked, and then Dado came in, and that's when people started learning how to. But anyway. Listen, I I I I was I think the you know, for for Brazil to get two finals, a gold and a silver was pretty good. It wasn't great. We had a couple other people win matches, but nothing outstanding, you know. Um, some we had two of our bigger people that I thought now they had some tough draws. We had, you know, our Milena fought with uh Ruth and Ruth beater, and we had Nicheta fight a Korean and and and he lost to that Korean and that Korean that was like yeah, he went out there and fought him, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Yeah, it was good. He should have, I think he should have won the first round.

Juan 1:11:58

Yeah, but then the Korean lost to the Russian, and then the Russian, you know, beat the uh Uzbekistan, then the Russian. It was a lot of people beating a lot of people. So um the Knicks one's not for until beginning of September. We have the President's Cup in August, and then that. So we got a little time to kind of calm down a little bit and and make some adjustments. Yeah, a lot of time. Really get a good amount of time, June, July, and yeah, man, you got like three and a half months. Matter of fact, we're gonna have to fight again somewhere. So yeah, that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

I like I like that timing. I like that amount of time between this first one and this second. I can I can date that. I think it'll be interesting. You probably you say you'll probably have uh you know Tunisia, hopefully, Iran back in those divisions.

Speak Up Or Stay Handcuffed

Juan 1:12:39

So all my fans, all my fans that are watching, all my fans that are that are uh um stalking on on social media, I will be there just because you asked in Muju. I'll leave it at that. I wish I was going to Muju. Send me a gift card or something. I'll take you to gift card to Muju.

herb 1:13:00

Come on, go see Steve Young. I've been to Muju. If I never go back, I'll be okay. But I'll go see you. When is the tournament? When is it? September like fourth, fifth, and sixth or something like that. I'll go then. I'll go then. I just gotta look at it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:16

Yeah, I got some pretty I got some pretty good calls today. I know we're we're almost an hour and ten. I just want to say before I get off. I got some pretty interesting calls today about you know what I posted on Facebook, and um, I just wanna say, you know, thank you to the ones that the real ones that reach out and they know what's going on. I know, but I'll be honest with you guys, we gotta fight now. It has to be now. Like there's it's not gonna, it's only gonna get worse from here. We're we're watching this happen live in front of our faces, and I know there's a few of us saying a lot, doing a lot, being a lot, but you guys are you it's it's now, it has to be now. We're gonna save whatever this sport was supposed to be and what it was before, it has to be now because we're just watching these guys do whatever they want and smile and cheer about it. They're not even they're not even quiet about it anymore, they're doing it out in public.

Juan 1:13:58

DJ, there's some prominent coaches like yourself, like Coach Gianni, the the TNT brothers. Just there's a bunch of these good coach, you know, coaches like that. You guys all need to get together. You guys all need to have a voice, you know. And I don't know if they're they're willing to or they're scared to or whatever, but I don't know why they should be scared to. Like, I just I it's just crazy to me to think that anybody in this day would be afraid.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

Somebody said you should be careful what you say, and I'm like, Because you're trying to, because that's because at some point you're trying to yeah, I know.

Juan 1:14:31

Like, think about that. Careful again. I'm not and I'm not talking about calling somebody, you know, any bad name or anything like that. I'm just talking about stating your opinion. Why should you be careful? Any of you coaches out there that talk like you're so tough, that talk to me in private, that send me messages, that call me, bullshit, this, this, please, just be a human being, be a man, be a woman, because not just men. I have women that call me too. Just talk, say it, talk with other people, get with some people, and and and and and try to get a change.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

Have a voice. I think that is that initial thing, like you know, I'm gonna do it to help my kids. I'm gonna make sure I don't wanna stand out because they if I say this or I do this, they're gonna have some backlash against my club or my team or my people and this, or I'm never gonna get invited. It's rigged already, just so you guys know. I keep repeating. You're you're you're not. Yes, sir.

Juan 1:15:32

I think my daughter's asleep. Well, if that's the case, my daughter has never have a chance. Yeah. But I don't believe that. If she's good enough, she'll win. If she's good enough, she'll win. And if she's not, no problem. But I have no problem saying what I say right here. Then if you're gonna try to take it out of my daughter, okay. No problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

I I think I think that's where it starts. I think they think that, you know, not saying it helps the, you know, helps the cause, and they gotta keep their head down and try to figure out another way. I don't understand. I had someone tell me the same thing. Like, if I don't do something, if I don't do something, if I don't do something, then I'm doing nothing or something like that. And it was about trying to create teams and do all this travel stuff and do this and this. Like, let's not pretend that this hasn't already happened before. Like, you're what why why is this time gonna be different? Why is it gonna run a different path? How are you and why are you going to just they're just gonna it's just gonna work out? I don't understand. Yeah, you guys can't think they're announced. You know, people that have had long running relationships with these people that have worked from the beginning. I someone asked me, do I have a have I ever tried to have two was it, two, um, two personalities, you know, act this way with someone, act this way. And I said, no. Why would why should I as a man need to act one way this way? I'm not rude, I'm not disrespectful. I don't, I don't think I I don't try to like dictate and do all no, but I'm I'm gonna tell you what I think. Um like, no? You want me to just be this way just so I can, I don't know, get along to get along to be a part? That's that's the problem.

Juan 1:16:55

And it's funny because it's not even like listen, we all have had people in our lives that that every time something doesn't go their way, or they just blow up and they yell at people and they're crazy. Like, you're not like that at all. We can be diplomatic, we can agree to disagree. We can be like, you know, listen, you know, you know, we can, you know, we just have these debates, you know, we have these these what do you call uh opinions, and that's okay. You should be able to do that. These people should be able to do that without any fear of you know repercussions. And like you said, TJ, that that I hate that thing. Oh well, I just gotta be quiet because I don't want to hurt my guys. I'm just doing it for my guys. What does that even mean? If you really were doing it for your guys, you would stand up. Just like in a match when you're saying, hey, that wasn't a cum, John. You you feel free to do it there. Why not anywhere else? If your kids are good enough, they'll make that cadet team and that junior team and hopefully that senior team. And if you can't go and they gotta go coach somebody else, just you know what? Coach them as well as you can and and and wish them well. Until, because that's gonna what's gonna change it. That's what's gonna change it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

And be honest with people. Like I'm very fortunate that my my group of people, my coach, my athletes and my parents that I work with stand behind me fully. You know, they listen to this podcast, they hear me say the things that I say, and they stand behind me fully. And I I think that's be honest with people. Tell people, don't hide these kids from the the systems, right? Not the kids, but tell the parents how bad this is. Let the parents know that this isn't right. Let's let's stop trying to work around this and pretend that it's gonna end up in some yellow brick road situation and you're gonna be in the Emerald City. There's no Emerald City. There's no Emerald City. It doesn't, it's not there anymore. You're leading to one place and one place only. That's for your kid either be done with the sport and no real belief that they can actually get to the highest levels. Unless they go to this one room, talk about these one group of people, and the one methodology, it has to be that way. Forget junior, forget the team trials, forget states, forget Nash, for all this stuff, just go to that room. And that's what we sold to this entire culture, and these coaches believe it. They all say, you know, should I go, should I play the game, should I do this? The answer's gotta be no. If you believe that you're you're the best for your athlete, then be the best for your athlete. Give the athlete, give your athlete what you thought has always been the best for them. If your voice is the strongest in that, uh in that moment, then fight for them, fight to be in the ring with them because you deserve to be there. If you're better for them, then do it. That's like the public face in your face.

herb 1:19:24

Elvis was a hero to most. I said Elvis was a hero to most.

Juan 1:19:30

That's public Amy. People don't know about that.

unknown 1:19:33

Yeah.

herb 1:19:34

We beat this horse, we beat this horse, but remember a couple of things. Thank you, sir. May I have another? That is the uh general memberships plea to both USA Taekwondo and AAU.

Website App And Sign Off

herb 1:19:46

Sorry, not sorry, brothers. Great shirt. Get to the website, get the app. The app is on the on the uh store, web uh warehouse 15. And then remember, as we always say, the revolution will not be televised, but it will certainly be podcastic. And with that, gentlemen, we are out. Peace. All right, I'll get it up.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:22

Firme, so lucha contra el poder, rompe la cadena, lucha contra la posibilidad, rompe la pena, atrancate la verdad de los ojos, mira de frente, abraza la verdad, duda la que muerde de repente, lucha por tus derechos, exige lo que es tuyo, nunca te conformes con mi casa ni con lo tuyo, surgiendo del concreto, saliendo de los salvajes, con las manos limpias y pulso en el abordaje, no dejes que dulce tu mente con tu veneno, no dejes que te cambien el grito por silencio, atascados por lo que frena en cada puerta, mientras tú sigues de pie con la mitad abierta.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:12

No te prometes desde la de la blanca, no te vi antes de verdad. Pero el piso te habla cuando dices la verdad, y entiendo se les manda al verde a la banda, te la pegue, te callaste, callate, no me da, picador en mi entende humo y papel, dibuja tu futuro, se rompe la mate de los que pasan verdad, lo hacen por costumbre, de borran lo que hacen para que no la lumbre, te toca mucho, pero se esconden en la sombra.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:46

Nosotros damos el paso, la tormenta, los nombres, sin miedo, sin temblor con la frente en alto, que te quitas tu frente, que sacas un asfalto, el futuro está en tu mano, no es tu mesa fría, tú lo sacas del barro, enciende esta frita, es hora de recuperarlo, de ponerlo en pie, de romper el cerro y despida, estoy a ti, cura de la transmisión limpia la curida, la verdad se abre camino cuando cae la ciudad, y si el rito que te llego tú contestas con la piel, que la historia cambia toda cuando te cubre, donde me saca tu velocidad, pero tu perdito, la calle, no, donde está con la pita, la revolución no va a pantalla, tu banda lleva la garganta, tu banda madre llena de calla, tu banda hijo de se levanta, donde vestido.