World Cup Lessons For Building Champions In Soccer And Taekwondo

The World Cup has us locked in, not just because of the goals, but because it exposes what “excellence” really costs. When we watch the best players in the world and the cultures that surround them, we see something the US keeps struggling to manufacture: identity, continuity, and respect for the pipeline that produces greatness. We talk about what soccer gets right that other sports often lose, from honoring legacy to building standards that don’t disappear every four years. Then we dig into the big American question: with our resources and participation, why does the US still feel so far from winning on the world stage? We push past the easy pay-to-play argument and focus on the real issue: a disconnected youth development system, uneven coaching, inconsistent talent identification, and too many athletes who never get seen or never get the right games at the right time. If you care about US soccer development, youth soccer academies, and what it takes to build a world-class program, this part will hit home. We also jump into the controversy of UFC at the White House and debate whether it’s a celebration of sport or a loss of national dignity. That opens a deeper conversation about why people love watching violence, where the line is for combat sports, and how spectacle can slowly replace values. From there, we bring it back to home base: USA Taekwondo, Olympic taekwondo, coaching pipelines, and why press releases don’t equal performance. We lay out what a healthier model looks like: community-based camps, real mentorship for coaches, and long-term athlete development that creates winners instead of hype. If this conversation challenged you, share it with a coach or teammate, then subscribe and leave a review so more people who care about performance culture can find the show. Where do you think the real fix starts: coaching, access, or accountability?

Transcript

World Cup Brilliance And Fan Culture

herb 3:16

Again. The warehouse fifteen. All I've been doing is watching professional football and goal and watching the greats be great and showing them why. I'm like messy these days, baby. I just walk around. I just look around. I'm just scanning and I put my points into the net without even trying. I think Moreno, you're like uh, you're like uh Ronaldo and uh uh uh TJ, you're like uh you're you're like half the team in Senegal. I'm sure you're related. But how are you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Such a hater. What's up? What's up? How are you? I bet you've been watching a lot of soccer. I forgot I always forget. Like you're like in the whole deep, deep, deep soccer world now.

herb 4:03

Dude, I can't help it. I've first of all, it it brings up a topic I want to talk about late later, which is can it's consistent with what we talk about, which is sport excellence. But um, I gotta tell you something. You gotta love the soccer fans. You gotta you gotta watch these guys, the Japanese, I was watching them clean the stadium again and how polite the even on the field, how polite the game is compared to some of the other games. But when you watch these guys do what they do, it's just unbelievable. But how are you doing today, Mr. TJ?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

I'm good, I'm good. I'm chilling, just getting the week started. Well, halfway through the week, um had some exciting stuff, kind of getting new some new people at the gym. So normal taekwondo school owner stuff, but we're here. We're here.

Juan 4:44

What's up, coach? Talk a little bit about Minnesota in a second, but I want to real fast about this World Cup and maybe we talk about the World Cup. But listen, I I agree with you. I I've watched, well, I I've only missed a few games. I I'm I'm a soccer nut too. I've I obviously I grew up playing soccer through high school, and and uh it's one sport that I continued doing after I started Taekwondo, even though I when I was young, I played you know hockey and and baseball, and I played everything. So I love soccer, but watching these guys, and you're right, young, the the the fans that they just travel are just there's they're amazing. They're crazy. I was just watching right now, it's gonna be Uzbekistan and Colombia. And the Uzbekistan people are out there, and and they're just I mean, Colombia in Mexico, they're gonna have a ton of fans, but these Uzbekistan people, watch out for that game. Um I'll call it right now, watch out for that game. But um, it's been awesome. It's been interesting to watch Spain kind of struggle, Brazil kind of struggle, France struggle for a half and then come back and look really good. USA looked amazing their first game. Um, Argentina messy with three goals, could have had five. I mean, it was pretty impressive. And then you see the African teams, Morocco, uh, Ghana just beat Panama in the in stoppage time, Senegal. Senegal looks, I mean, these guys can play. They can play the game. I mean, their touches are good, their speed is good, they're big. Um, yeah, it's just been pretty interesting. And tomorrow's a big game. Well, big game because it's still the qualifying South Korea and Mexico and Guadalajara. That's going to be a good game because Mexico's playing well, but Korea's good. I mean, they're they're very good. So um, that's one of the more difficult matchups in the in the uh in the early rounds. So and this year, I think it's the top two in each group comes out, and I think it's like the top eight third place get a go. Before it was just always the two. So they're expanding it a little bit this year. So it's gonna open up some. Well, uh I think it's gonna open up some easy first round matches, to be honest with you. You know what I'm saying? In the in the knockout stage. So um, let's see. But it's exciting, and USA is on deck, you know, and and on Friday. Um, Brazil is also on deck on Friday night. So there's some really good games coming up. It's gonna be it's gonna be amazing. I liked it.

herb 6:57

Well, you gotta love that, you gotta love that sun guy, man. I mean, he's still one of my favorite guys on and off the field. You know, he's everything that I love about Koreans. He carries himself in a certain way, comports himself, and plays the game at a very, very high level. But if you ever want to talk about something that matters, just look at the the three or four guys that are at the top of their game right now and and are approaching 40, right? So you got to talk about Messi, you got to talk about Ronaldo. But this Holland kid, man, just he's young, he's young, but what a badass. He's a massive, he's a he's a force to be reckoned with, right? But that that and then there are other guys on the field that nobody talks about, Harry Kane, right? And Kane came out today and made a proposal. Yeah, he's and you know they're like, should it be talked about in the same voice as these other guys? But here's the difference between soccer and taekwondo before I go on that rant. They respect and understand the people that got them there. So they they talk about the legacy, they talk about the great players. They're still talking about in their breath the Peles and the Maradonas and all those guys. So that's a difference for a sport that doesn't, as part of its culture, profess to have all these things. They have it in the culture of the sport where they carry it through and they respect their. They don't walk on the emblem of the other team or their own emblem as they walk into a stadium, they walk around it. So it's it's interesting to watch.

Juan 8:21

Yeah, it's gonna be good. I and you know, the Spanish kid Yamel is still there, and you know, Mbappe was nasty, you know. I mean, there's it's there's so many good soccer players around the world. It's it's I I for I don't know his name. I and they were talking about him because when they played when Morocco played um um Brazil, and Morocco actually, I think, outplayed Brazil, to be honest with you. But they have I think the youngest youngest person in the in the tournament is a kid from from Morocco who's who played and and was kind of raised in in France. And I think he's 17 or 18, but he's dude, he's a big kid. I mean, he's just nasty. He's just he looks like he's been playing at that level his whole life. Like he doesn't look like a 17, 18-year-old kid. So it's that sport is amazing. It really, really is. Mexico had a kid that came off the bench. I think same thing, you know, maybe he was the youngest one. But uh, it's just uh it's a whole nother level. I mean, uh the the detail of these guys and the professionalism is just a whole nother level. So I'm sure we'll get a chance to talk about this, you know, as the tournament, you know, progresses.

herb 9:19

Well, you and speaking of Gotta You gotta talk about this. Is the thing I was gonna say. And it there was an article in the New York Times about it. So, our sport, we give it a hard time a lot and we talk about it a lot. But there was an effort made after the last World Cup, the first World Cup where America made it to whatever, to try to build the sport. And it was in part handled by David Beckham, who created the academy system for these professional MLS teams. And the question you have to ask yourself in over 30, 40 years, uh, what progress has the United States made towards becoming a force on the world stage with soccer? We have a rid we have more people than you can imagine. We have more resources, we have kids and all this, and we still the chances of

Respect, Legacy, And What Soccer Preserves

herb 10:05

we we'd have a better chance of getting hit with a hurricane, a tornado, struck by lightning, drowned by and eaten by a shark than we have of the US team winning the World Cup. And that's not a dig on anyone's. And that's the question. So the question becomes this for everyone. And I because I watched it and I was listening to the conversation and the New York Times article, I I encourage everybody to read because originally what they said was it's the pay-for-play model. Well, that doesn't prevent us from getting gold medals in Taekwondo. You you want to be you want to do taekwondo? It's not cheap in this country, it's not the pay for play, it's the disc continuity, the disconnect in the various pipelines. So you have uh so many kids playing elite level soccer, by the way. You know, millions of kids are playing good soccer.

Juan 10:50

Relatively speaking.

herb 10:52

Relatively speaking.

Juan 10:53

It's not elite.

herb 10:54

Let's be honest with you. It's not elite. You have at the next level, though, where you do get to the club level and you have kids playing club soccer, you have a bunch of kids playing really, really high-level soccer in different clubs in different areas. So the pipeline is disconnected. USA soccer has the same problem that USA Taekwondo does. They don't know how to adequately identify kids, put them through the pipeline at a time where it matters. And it's not about getting a kid into the academy at 12, it's about getting the kid the right coaching, the right access, and the right games. So, you know, we were fortunate in my situation that we're in an area that's rich with soccer. We got a ton of good coaches, ton of, we have a couple of professional teams in this area. We go to these big tournaments where people get seen, and you get lucky if you're seen. But I'm gonna tell you, there's probably another 100% of kids that don't get seen, don't get the opportunity, and don't get access, right? So I mean the other the other group's better than the group that's getting seen. It's not that they're better, but I it they could be, you don't know. It's like imagine if no one imagine USA Taekwondo back in the day, and quite honestly, currently, they don't get the best athletes. Either to soccer. Either to soccer. There are athletes outside the sport that don't even know it exists because it's too expensive. Yeah, well, I don't know if it's to pay for play. I'm gonna say I I don't I don't think it's just that because there are the kids that are playing are athletic, and the US is more athletic than most countries.

Juan 12:22

But that's not I listen. I first of all, soccer like Taekwondo doesn't get the best athletes. The best athletes are playing baseball, basketball, football. So you know, that's what they're playing.

herb 12:31

I don't think I I but this is I I disagree slightly, and I'll tell you why. An athlete that's playing football is not a soccer athlete. An athlete who's playing basketball is not a soccer athlete. There may be crossover, there'll be kids in the middle, but your seven foot six guy, or whatever his name, he's not playing soccer, he's not agile enough.

Juan 12:53

But but but but you can again, let's say I'm just talking like if you had a Deion Sanders, Deion Sanders or uh or any of these wide receivers that are 6'3, 6'4 that can run, they would make a soccer player look like they're standing still if they just have a sprint. Of course, there's a skill set and stuff like that, but I'm just saying if you want to compare the athletes, there's no comparison. There's maybe a few, a handful in the world. Holland is a freak of nature. But Messi Ronaldo's an athlete.

herb 13:25

Messi's a Messi has a different issue. Messi was at a time where you didn't get you didn't have Usada or Wada, Messi was given drugs to get still to grow, right?

Juan 13:36

But he's still five foot like six. But listen, again, I'm not trying to dog

Why US Soccer Still Trails

Juan 13:40

out on soccer players because I think I love the sport and I appreciate the sport, but what I'm saying is it soccer is not a mainstream, it's as big as it is in this country, it's still not people aren't gravitating towards it. It's like hockey, it's like wrestling. There's a lot of people that do it, but still they're all going to football and basketball and stuff like that. I there's a good documentary right now on on the USA soccer and how it kind of when it started in '94 here, and they had and they made the MLS and the MLS was losing money, and then they came back. And you know, it's interesting enough. I I don't know the exact number, but I thought I read that on this World Cup team for the United States, there's only like four, three or four kids, people, men, that are playing in the MLS. Everybody else is playing in Europe. Oh, yeah. And they look like it, you know.

herb 14:27

So MLS has come a long way. MLS has come a long way, but you got to remember, MLS is still in its infancy, right? So if you well, here's what you just hit the question for me. So here's what I would do if I were USA soccer, right? Or MLS or whatever it is. First of all, I would take my athletes, put them on a plane, and bring my my talented athletes, the younger ones, to academies in the countries where they're successful. Go to the French Academy, go to any of the academies that would be willing to have them, and develop them where people are being developed now, rather than trying to develop them here. Second thing, and then what's the problem?

SPEAKER_04 15:06

I'm still missing the problem. Like the problem, the problem is I know you said that the sport doesn't get seen, it doesn't have as much following. Well, like, I mean, I think there's still a we're saying they have academies, they have uh groups, they have A level, B level, all these different levels. They should still be getting some talent. They're getting a lot of talent.

herb 15:22

No, there are kids, there's a kid out of Philly that's playing. He got signed by a man. It's coaching. It's coaching and and and and pipeline. And I and Coach Randall's not wrong. I'm not saying that you're wrong. What I'm saying is we have produced talent. The talent that you're talking about, which I'll call crossover talent, a kid that likes hitting a baseball or a kid that likes shooting a basketball, a kid, if you're gonna put if you're gonna play soccer, you gotta be willing to run six to eight miles a game to touch the ball twice, right? And you got the skill set for soccer after watching it and you played it, it's an interesting skill set. It's a hard skill set.

Juan 15:59

There's a I'm not I'm not denying that's a hard skill set, but like again, the the you know the average soccer player is is what 5'10, 5'11, average, average. Uh maybe, maybe that's an average man. That's and and all these other sports, these guys are they're freaks of nature.

herb 16:15

You know, and well, that's the sport. That the sport like basketball, and there's been an argument about this, by the way. Basketball has they have versions of it where it's height limited, right? Like if you And the Philippines. Well, it has to be, right? But I mean, the when you have certain sports biomechanically, like, and football's a great example of that. You're you know, you get linebackers, they're tiny, they can be tiny, but that's the same thing as soccer. The midfielders can be tiny, but your back line can't be tiny. Your forwards are better if they're bigger, right?

Juan 16:49

So it's uh it's a good question, TJ. And I don't I mean, obviously, we're not you know, we don't know. American soccer. Yeah, I mean, it but it is interesting. I mean, we've they've had the MLS for 30 plus years now, I think. It's been I think it started in 95 or 96, whenever it was.

herb 17:04

And you can count on your hand the amount of athletes they developed, like Polisic and guys like this, that uh yes, yes, they're they're getting better.

Juan 17:11

Yeah, but I actually I I did, and you said something about it one time, something about coaching, bringing in foreign coaches. I I did hear um uh Landon Donovan, and I forgot what was the goalie's name? The he's an African-American guy, uh bald head, light beard. Um he played in all of the World Cups, he was very good. He played in Europe, he played in England for a long time. They were saying that like there's no identity, and I've said this before, there's no identity. These guys don't play the American brand of soccer. They they're still trying to be like a French person or a Brazil person or a Spanish person, yeah. And they just can't, they just can't get that. It's like we've always said, we can't be Koreans, we can't fight like Koreans. We have to know what they do.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

I guess I can't picture in my head like um when you say, like, what does a French player plays a certain way? Because I don't follow soccer that much. Like a Spanish player plays a certain way.

herb 18:01

A Spanish player plays, they play one touch, they pass the ball. As soon as they get the ball, they move the ball. As a team, they play that's what they play as a team. Yeah, or a team will be more aggressive. Like coach was talking about France, right? France is attacking, they're doing this, that, the other thing. Other teams, they're not gonna be able to.

Juan 18:22

You know, Argentina, aggressive, fouls a lot. You know what I'm saying? They're they're very physical, they're they stop the play so they can get their defense back, you know, they get a whistle because and Brazil, I think what Brazil runs into, and I don't again, I don't know enough about soccer.

herb 18:36

I talk about it barely, but Brazil runs into they have incredibly skilled ball handlers, incredibly skilled. But then they run into Nordic Giants that you know that's a different world, man. You can spend all the time you want being cute on the ball, but if you can't put the ball in the net, you know.

Juan 19:04

Everyone was like, You just you you shoot you shook when you had to play them, but right now they're not. And right now they're just all playing in different plus different countries. Like they say the number one export of of Brazil is soccer players around the world, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but they don't play well together right now, they really don't.

herb 19:20

Yeah, that's what Nico said. My son was talking, he said they can't play together, they don't know how to play together.

Juan 19:26

No, so anyway, what do you guys think real fast? I mean, while we're on other subjects, what did you guys watch the UFC, the 250 on uh Sunday at the White House?

SPEAKER_04 19:35

I didn't watch it, I just saw it. What?

herb 19:37

I'm philosophically opposed. I'm gonna I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna say it now just so you can hear it. We you and I, all of us have been to the White House. When we go up to the White House, you go to the White House to do certain things, and when you go to the White House, you should come correct. So when I went to the White House because I was an athlete, I was dressed in my warm-up, I brought my medal, I shook the president's hand, who wasn't my president, I didn't vote for him, but I shook his hand, I was polite and I did what I had to do. I didn't um I didn't curse, I didn't take my shirt off, I wasn't oiled up. And so I have a fundamental disconnect, and there are other people that don't, between the concept of having the UFC on the White. If you're gonna have a White House event, it should be opera, uh, a musical, a art festival, a VLS, uh, a symphony. You want to show the best of the best of America to the world. I think the last thing you want to show is MMA UFC. That's tractor pulls, mud baths, mud pits, and and and I had a long conversation with a lot of people about this, and my son included. And this isn't about politics. This is about whether you should have where your country, where you represent 100% of the people in this country, not 50%. You can find the lowest common denominator, and it happened in Rome, and it happens in all great democracies. And if that's where you aspire to, this is what you end up with. So what we ended up with was a tractor poll for the entertainment of one person on a lawn because he's friends with one other guy, and this, and then the guys get up, and they can't even get the guys not to say you don't, I don't love everybody, but and I don't like everybody. And I didn't like the presidents that I met, by the way. I but when I went up to them and you were there, I said, Thank you for being president. I didn't know what to say. I I dressed properly, I spoke properly, and had I been given a microphone, I wouldn't have protested, I wouldn't have said anything about anybody else, I wouldn't embarrass myself. So for me, I was fundamentally opposed to the event in general. I was opposed to what happened at the event. And um, it's not hard to make money. If you want to make money, you can make money. And you know, I commentated the second UFC, and after I commentated The second one, I made a decision in that point never to be involved in it again because I didn't like what it was. Now, with that said, that back when I did it, it was a different thing. It has evolved into a true sport. Not my flavor. I've never been to one because I can't

Identity, Coaching, And Real Development

herb 22:20

imagine myself watching somebody get their eye almost poked out, bloodied, another guy stepping on his face. It's not my thing. I like Taekwondo because there are rules. I can watch judo. I can watch bad karate. I can watch good karate. I like things where we elevate ourselves. And that's not to say if the UFC guys um didn't strut around and curse and and do all the Braggdishio stuff, maybe I have a different opinion. If there were slightly more rules where guys weren't getting physically, I mean, if you look at a picture of uh Frank Shamrock when he started the sport, he was movie star beautiful. When he retired, he looked like City Put Silly Putty. It's not a good sport for guys in general.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

It's a fight. Like I know it's a sport, obviously, but it's a scary sport. I mean, those guys are hitting each other repetitively. They're good. No, no, they're tough. They're good. Yeah, it's it's crazy. But I think I don't know if I I don't, coach, to answer your question yet. I didn't, I don't think I didn't watch it on purpose. I just didn't watch it, but I gotta agree with Grandmaster. Like I thought that was weird. Just from a I go from like, I don't know, a security standpoint. Like, there's shit going on in the world, and we're out here fucking around. Like, I don't that just drives me nuts. And maybe it's safe, maybe it's you know, they had it all secured, but it's just an extra thing to have to think about. I just I agree with you both.

Juan 23:46

Listen, I agree with you both. I mean, uh, I'm a big fan of UFC. I don't, I agree with you, Hung. I don't like certain attributes that the people do. I would agree with you, TJ. I don't think it was, I don't think you needed to do it at the UFC at the at the White House. I mean, what I thought the way they did it, I thought it was ridiculously amazing, except for this one guy that made the comment that everybody's talking about. Everybody else went in there and have fought, and that was there were three comments.

herb 24:16

There was a guy talking about balls, another guy talking about balls. He stuck, he said, I'm as good. The President Trump had the balls to put this on. You're at the White House, man. You know, you know, but I mean I'll say this.

Juan 24:29

I'll say this, you know, because okay, let's say there were three comments. Let's say there's five comments.

herb 24:34

Okay, um, if I meet if I meet TJ's imaginary wife, if I ever meet his imaginary wife, I'm never gonna say, I'm so glad he finally had the balls to bring me to meet you.

Juan 24:45

Yeah. Again, I'm not disagreeing with you guys at all. I thought it was weird, but I thought when they did it, uh, how they did it, how they did the show, I thought was amazing. I thought it was awesome. The fights were all KOs, which again, if you're just a pure fight fan, I didn't like the little comments. I think they were unnecessary, and I agree with you both, you know, that you don't need to talk like that. But I'm gonna go, I'll go this. Young, don't you think that there's some person older than you, more patriotic than you, that says, why the hell are we bringing the NBA team to the White House to shake the president's hand? Why the hell are we bringing the Super Bowl team? Why the hell are we bringing Olympians? Like, there's somebody that says that. Like they're just a bunch of people, and you could say they're just athletes. What do they have to do? What do they do? It somebody started that, and this is where we've matriculated to is that a word, you know, we've gotten to this, where we're all of a sudden we're having, you're right. I I did the same thing. I walked up, I shook a hand, and I was like, wow, I was in awe of being at the White House. Same where my presidents, but I was respectful. I took a picture, I got the picture in my house, and I I'll always have it because what an opportunity, you know. But I just think where we got to is just it is a little much. It didn't need to happen. Um, but I just thought it was really tasteful how they walked through the White House, how they came down, they were you know quiet. I mean, I I thought, you know, I thought it was pretty they they kept it to whatever 4,000 people, and then there was 80,000 people outside, you know, in another area. The fights were amazing. I thought the Tapuria fight and the Gaiche fight out, you know, it was the final, it was the headline. Tapuria is the monster. He's viciously knocked out the last three like icons of the sport, viciously, and he gets his face destroyed. He quit, he quit on the stool in the fourth round. Like, this guy's a machine, young. This guy is amazing, and he got in the second round, he almost finished him, but it was just out of control.

herb 26:48

Let me let me ask you the here's the question for you, though, right? So, like I'm a philosopher, baby one, right? Um,

UFC At The White House Debate

herb 26:56

where's the line? So we can have um good question. Imagine, imagine the running man, right? That new the old movie that became new again. Yeah, yeah, I was on a lot of movies. Yep, there's a new one, yeah. And so here's the thing. So now you're you're fanaticized with this thing, and now we have we had boxing, which was there are people that wanted to outlaw boxing. Yeah. Then we have wrestling and judo, and people want to outlaw certain things like that. All right, so now we have this thing called MMA. And in MMA, you at least pad the str you pad the striking implements only of the hand. You don't pad the elbows, you don't pad the forearms, you don't pad the shins, the knees, whatever. Um all right, so now let's go one step further. Why not have a scream of stick fighting? Why not have sword? Why not have sword fighting? The only thing you can't do is por because that's the line. So where is the line? Is the line now is our aesthetic as humans, just as pure as humans? Are we testing the boundaries of what's possible for self-defense or or sport or whatever? Because that's a sport. Well, so is TJ and I stand across from each other. I give him a bow and arrow, I have a bow and arrow, and we look at each other and we shoot at each other. I'd watch that. I'd put me in front of Steve McNally and give me a bow. I'll be the first guy to sign up. But should it be at the White House? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

No, I mean I mean, you got you got stuff you can. I mean, you look at bare knuckle boxing, those guys are just slapping.

herb 28:36

Oh, the slap, the slap fighting, that's another thing. But you know what I'm saying?

Juan 28:40

But you know what's funny? I think it's interesting. Yeah, but like we're uh here, I think it's interesting. And three guys that love fighting, and there was a time, young, and I know for sure a thousand percent that somebody looked at what you did in practice and said, that's despicable. You're kicking the crap out of each other's stomach in practice. You know what I'm saying? So again, and and and there was like I'm gonna use I'll say point fighters or people that didn't do Olympic fighting because Olympic fighting was barbaric. We didn't wear stuff, we didn't wear pads, we tried to have the littlest thing, we tried to hurt people. Like like I remember, I remember being so crazy, like I was kicking the crap out of the guy, and some parents were like, Oh, freaking. I'm like, I remember looking at them, this is how crazy I was when I was younger. I said, if you don't like it, you guys need to find another sport. And I continue to beat the crap out of this guy. And it's I I think about I I did that in the middle of the match to some some people. I'm like, what's wrong with me? So my my point is at every junction of of human nature, it keeps getting pushed, whether it's the social media stuff, whether it's politics, whether it's corruption, whether it's fraud, or whether it's combat.

herb 29:54

Should they have UFC at the Vatican?

Juan 29:59

We did Taekwondo at the Vatican.

herb 30:03

Should they have UFC, a UFC cage match at the Vatican? If they want to.

Juan 30:09

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Yeah, and I I'm agreeing with you. I I I I listen, when they said they're gonna do it at the White House, I'm like, really? We need to have a sporting event. I I I didn't agree with it. When they did it, okay. I don't I don't know.

herb 30:23

It's weird. By the way, if they had a UFC match at the White House with President Trump fighting uh Khomeini, I'm I'm good. I'm good, I'm there.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

That would be the only place to have it. You'd have to have fightable home tour. Go on, yeah.

Juan 30:40

But I agree with you too, TJ. With all the shit that goes on in the world, we're gonna just a security situation. Supposedly there was, and they they kind of thwarted it and they figured it out. But yeah, I don't know. I know it's a hot topic, especially on social media and stuff like that.

herb 30:54

People are talking about it and like and I I'm on fire, Rome is burning, and Nero is fiddling, right? So you can take whatever metaphor you want of that. That's not a comment on any particular political leaning or whatever. And you gotta here's the last question to ask yourself about all the things in the world that are going on in the moment, where we have Americans in harm's way in a number of countries, um should the leader of the modern world be um sitting on a chair dozing and watching guys punch each other in the face while guys are in airplanes trying to protect the Straits of Hormose or whatever? So I, you know, I and I'm not gonna go to that level because the answer is probably no. Um, and then should Americans be paying for it, right? Because you want to watch it, you had to pay, and and and and then then there's a gold coin to commemorate it. But you know, and that's thousands and thousands of dollars too. So that's just becoming a pay-for-play scam. But and what's the country, you know, one of the things the good news about being, and you've learned this because you run the board of directors. When you run the board of directors of USA Taekwondo and a USOC member of the board, you learn I'm not here representing my sport, I'm not here representing my personal interests, I'm representing the interest of all athletes. So when you assume a certain position, I was the head of my city, I was the mayor of my city, I had to represent all of my city, not just the ones I liked or I felt. So the question becomes would this, what I'm about to do, would it offend anyone? And then I'd have to decide if it was important enough, a political issue, I'd have to speak or not speak on it, or not do it. So in my particular situation, I don't see myself having a cage match because I'm representing the entire United States, not just the people that would say, Oh, that's so cool or that's so current. You want to be cool or current, there are a lot of things you can do, right? And um degrees, yeah. And so that that's that's all I would say. But um, if TJ wanted to have a cage match, then I would definitely have that K match anywhere he wants, including why do you want to fight me at the bar the barbecue, the barbecue pit outside the front of your house, but whatever you got.

Juan 33:05

You're not saying you want to have a cage ride with TJ.

herb 33:08

I'm not fighting, I'm not fighting. I'm I'm a peace and love guy now. I've gone past all the violence because as violent as you were, there was nobody more violent than me in thought and action. I I had little or no regard for anybody that was dumb enough to step in the arena with me, or practice for that matter. We have mutual friends who would train with us, um, and uh and I would make sure they didn't want to come back again. Um, I don't want to mention his name because he's a friend of both of us, but you guys would yell at me like, Why are you being so hard? I'm like, he shouldn't be here, don't come. You know, so I I had my share of beating sort of handed down.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

That used to be tough.

herb 33:42

Well, it it was and we got we got yelled at, you know, we've been on a bunch of trips, all of us where you know, we were told to take it easy on the people we were training with. We went to certain countries and certain levels, and I'm like, don't bring them. Like, you came here to get better. Here's lesson number one get better, right? So, and I've been the big I've been the victim of that too, huh?

SPEAKER_04 34:04

When you guys were competing, did you do a lot of cross-training? Like go to another country and train as a national team. Yeah.

herb 34:10

We went to Taiwan, we went to uh we trained in Taiwan Tai Taipei, we went to Korea and fought a bunch of teams there. We we did that a lot, and as we should have. And by the way, every time we did it, it was like this. Let's get the fighting out of the way first, and then we'll train. They start with the fighting, then you train. They're like, okay, we know this is where we're gonna end up, so let's let's get this out of the way. And we made great friends at it because nobody was there to help you. Everybody was there to say, okay, let's see what you got. And by the way, here's today's lesson number one, right? You're either better or you're worse, and you're gonna learn it. And that's the way it should be, you know. And um, there was no monkey kick, no dragon whip its tail, and and and no lick my butt, cancel my leg, test touch my testicles, either.

Juan 34:55

The Korea all the time, and that was you know, at least once a year, and that was it it was a war every time. Like it was Especially for you.

herb 35:01

Especially for you because you were a danger, and once they knew you were a danger, you know, the it was there's nothing on and you were tall and you were a Finn. And though that was their toughest division.

Juan 35:11

Yeah, Finn fly, man. These guys are crazy, but it's just it was it was a war, and like you know, no matter how good you were, some days you were gonna give it, some days you were gonna get it. It just that's just the way it went, you know, and you had to roll with the punches, and it was yeah, we you lose test matches, and it was it was nasty. I mean, it was it was tough.

herb 35:29

I loved it, but anyway, but anyway, for full circle full circle back, you know, if you have like a thumbs up, you know, lose there's another podcast I listen to, and they talk about losers and wins. So for me, the win, the loss was the loss of the national dignity um on that particular event. The win, the win was for the people that were in this that are in the sport that did the sport on the lawn of the White House, that's a win for them. It's a it's an honor to be able to go to the White House and perform what you do in front of the president and every everybody else like that. So that's the win on it. The loss, I think the public dignity was a loss. And that's not a comment on the warriors that do that sport because they're true warriors and tough guys. But you know, you don't give the mic, I don't I don't give the microphone to my five-year-olds, and there's a reason. Because you have no idea what's going to come out of their mouth.

Where The Line Is In Violence

herb 36:20

So the loss on that, too, is Dana White or whatever his name is, and whatever genius told him it would be a good idea to give those guys a microphone. Give the microphone to Chale Sonan. Chelsea's funny. Yeah, but he talked a lot of stuff too. He does, but at least it's funny. Like with Chel Sonan, he's well educated. You know, he he had some of the he goes. I remember when he talked about the Brazilians, he's like, What? They were upset? I'm so sorry they were upset. Had I known, I had no idea they had the internet. They had the internet in Brazil, really? Had I known, I would have never said that. You understand? I saw the guy trying to feed a bus when he got off the plane. They have the internet there, so he's at least witty. He's not just, you know, yelling weird stuff.

Juan 37:02

But but you know what the funny thing is, like again, you know, you had the Connor McGregor of the world, you have Floyd McMayweather of the world. There's a ton of people that just hate those guys, and there's a ton of people that love those guys. So, to your question before, where do you draw the line? Okay, so this is the latest and greatest of it, but like nobody talked worse and more foul than Connor McGregor. Nobody talked worse and more foul than than than than Floyd Mayweather. You know, it was funny. That's what I'm saying. I guess that's my point. So you said you just said, Oh, that was funny. Cagger Connor was was funny. Other people might be like, this guy is ridiculous.

herb 37:35

Like didn't do it at the White House, though.

Juan 37:38

Didn't do the White House. Point, point we'll take it. Point we'll take it.

herb 37:41

Did it in Vegas, did it in Vegas.

Juan 37:42

He did it everywhere.

herb 37:44

Yep, yeah, he was funny. I apologize. Absolutely. No way. Well, I was gonna say, um Well, my son, let me uh let me ask you this because my son asked me this, and and I and I didn't know he goes, he goes, why do people why but Baba, why do people like to watch that? And so I had to think for a second. And I can't fight that UFC? No, no, in general, he says, why do people watch UFC? Why do they like to watch it? Because I was telling him how base it was and how this and that, the other thing. And I I know what I told him, but what why do you think people watch it? People love to see the car wreck, people love to see someone smash. There you go. People love to see someone. People love to see people do things that they can't do, won't do, or wouldn't do. And that's that's why they watched NASCAR. They don't watch it, they don't watch it where TJ's from, they don't sit outside with buckets of beer and and chicken and and watch it for the cars to go around the track.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

NASCAR a lot of NASCAR race stuff here. That's what I'm saying.

herb 38:44

My point is they don't watch it to watch it go around the track, they wait for the car crash. Otherwise, it's boring. Yeah, so that's I think you're right, and that's what I told them. I said people watch things they dream about doing that they wouldn't do. People will listen to people that say stuff that they want to say but they wouldn't say. I think that's the truth.

Juan 39:02

It's like, I mean, UFC revel revolutionized combat sports.

herb 39:09

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. By the way, all you sissies that do taekwondo now, take off the chest protector. Because the original purpose of the chest protector was our kicks were so deadly that if we hit you with them, you would die. Guess what? Yeah, nobody nobody's dying, my friend. Nobody's dying.

Juan 39:28

And that's what I'm saying. Like, I mean, listen, even jujitsu, like, you know what's the great thing about jujitsu? Like, you can say whatever you want about it, but every time you practice, you die 20 times. Every time you tap, you die. Yeah, it's not like in Taekwondo where I can say, I I almost kicked you, I could have killed you. No, no, I broke your arm, I choked you, and while you were choked out, you died. And so I give that a lot of respect. I mean, obviously, it's only one part of it at one point it was the main thing with UFC, but it's not anymore. It's a it's a major part of it. But I guess what you know, people are a much more educated audience nowadays, and so when they watch UFC and then they watch boxing or they watch wrestling, they see holes in all those sports, and they say UFC kind of covers it all. Like if you think you're good at kick, if you're a good kickboxer, come over here, see if you can fight.

herb 40:23

UFC eliminated all the nonsense. In other words, you're no longer a deadbeat killing machine. So, you know, the reality is that the UFC, the thing I like about it was it's creative. So dirty boxing, dropping elbow on all this stuff that wasn't a technique. So, you know, and here's where I'll give my little dig back to taekwondo. Go in a UFC match and do the monkey kick and see what happens. Go go cancel somebody's leg. Go to a UFC match and try to cancel somebody's leg. So let's you want to now that actually puts a finer point on it. If you want to know how ridiculous taekwondo is now, there was a point where I'd put I'd put myself in a UFC match. I was offered to fight in the first one. I would have gladly done it, by the way, if there were more money, because I knew that if I hit somebody in the face with my right hand punch or my left leg round kick, they go out. Then there's no there's no coming back from it. Now, if they grab me, I lay on the floor and let them tap like a little girl. But if if I hit them, they're going out, they're not coming back. I challenge you to go in any of you current fighters, go in there and do your monkey kick, leg cancel, and let's see how that's I don't think anybody thinks they're gonna go in there and do that, though. No, they don't that's the point. Now, if you want to understand my my lament, that's what's happened to our sport. There was a point when you did our sport, it actually mattered, it was not embarrassing, and you knew that guys that did the sport that we did could fight, and you didn't mess with them because they could fight, right? Now, that's not the case today. You can't go in there and monkey kick any, and there's probably guys that still can fight. I'm not saying that, but by the way, try to move.

Juan 42:00

What's your percentage, TJ? Your percentage. Let's say in America, in America, right now, from the national team to the junior team. I will leave juniors out of the just uh senior fighters.

herb 42:11

I can what fight I can fight less than 10%. 10? Less than 10, less. I'd say like one. Yeah. I I I I'd stand there and let them kick me with the hardest round kick they could to my body.

Juan 42:26

Do you have anybody at the top of your head? Like, just I you don't say names. Uh I don't want to say names. I I have like I can think of one what I'll say is one tough kid that I could think about right now. I don't know anybody from the adult level that I go, you walk outside, that guy's gonna be a problem for you. No, no, no.

herb 42:43

DJ DJ, come on.

Juan 42:46

You you think more? Am I am I being no?

SPEAKER_04 42:50

I don't think so. Am I being too harsh? No, no, you know what's crazy? You say that because that used to be the standard. Like what a detective.

herb 42:57

You couldn't be in the room. Nobody looked at you. You could there were there were two guys that I can think of that weren't fighters. What well, yeah, two. There were two guys that weren't fighters, they were from Ohio, they were technicians, but when it came to being fighters, they weren't fighters, they were they were taekwondo guys. They they studied under a guru. They couldn't fight, they could do taekwondo fighting, but in a real fight, they were the first ones to leave the building. Everybody else I knew they were fighters, they could fight. They they could absolutely fight and would fight.

What UFC Exposed About Taekwondo

herb 43:30

Including Jimmy Kim, by the way. Because you didn't know what was gonna pop off someday. Dude, we had we'd be in weigh-ins, and Coach Moreno was there in way-ins. The Spanish heavyweight said something to me. And I went over, I said, Say, what'd you say? We we all we almost and he's not even in my division. We almost got into a ruckus in the way in because he said something because of something about his whatever. I'm like, I'll punch you in the face right here. I'm not even gonna taekwondo your ass. But anyway, that was we were fighters back then. And you knew that. And this is what I also said true fighters don't fight. Because they know what the outcome is. They know there's a potential they're gonna get hurt. Baby tough guys always start fights. But anyway, enough said. We uh we're talking about the old days, and you know, of course, we didn't do anything, we weren't anybody, and we weren't in the record books, uh, which could bring us to our second topic should we choose to bring it up.

Juan 44:28

I well, I was gonna one thing I was gonna ask is well, what was it? Did we talk about the the I don't know? There's two posts that just came out that pop in my head. There's one by a former Olympic gold medalist that kind of put some things out last, I don't know if it was a week ago or a couple days ago, just a series of doom doop doop doom kind of taking some shots at some coaches and stuff like that. I thought that was interesting. But the other thing I was did we talk about like the the press release about the the new coach coming in that being the greatest of all time?

herb 44:56

No, we gotta talk about it. No, we gotta talk about it. No, no, I saw that he and it goes back to the original problem. Steve, Steve, the shyster, Steve the PR master, puts out more press releases on how they're so good when they don't win any medals and how they have the best person, the best team in the world. And when you looked at the post, the irony of the post was first of all, everybody on the left side of the post didn't win anything and didn't matter, and they were all the Americans and the and the and the Brits. And then on the other side was the Korean world medal-winning coaching coach. You can't take one, I you can't take my medal and sprinkle sprinkle it all over everybody. We have we have put our medals in line. We have talked about Coach Mirando is a world champion. Coach is he and all you guys have, we all have our medals. But I didn't say I will anoint you. You get the holy blessing of the Papple gold medal for everyone. So this one individual doesn't have, by the way, a gold medal at the Olympics. But you can't put his world medals on the other guys, and he's not even in Dehan, whatever his name is, and he's not the Dehan because he was good and best of the best. Um he's not even that Dehan. This guy, he's not even in the top 20 in the world. Forget about Korea. He's not even the top, they don't even his name doesn't come up in Korea when you talk about greats. He's got to step back, and he would be the first, probably, to admit admit it if they had translated the post to him.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

They need to, they need to translate for it, my boy, because I feel like they're making a mockery of this whole thing. I don't care what he does or doesn't do when he gets here. He don't care.

herb 46:32

He's here for the green card, he's here for the green card. He's going to the White House, he's gonna he's gonna smile and get the green card, right? He's not getting to go to the White House because there won't be any Olympic gold medals. But this guy, he's and I and this isn't a dig on him. He was a good fighter in this nonsense that they do now. He's not, and to win in anything, you win. You don't disparage the athlete. But in this particular uh situation, he should be the first one saying, Hold on a second. I was good, but I'm not that like people talk about me and they're like, Oh, you were the greatest. I go, hold on a second. I'm not even in the conversation. I was good, I'm a good middleweight. You could make an argument, I'm one of the better middleweights. You could probably make an argument I was one of the best middleweights. I don't know. Maybe they get a PR person, but I mean, and I can't say that because Lopez moved up to middle, the new middle. But you can't, I'm in the conversation, but you'll never hear me say, Oh, I was the best athlete in the United States, or I'm the best.

Juan 47:32

I'm sure he didn't, I mean, I'm sure he didn't either, but you know, to your point, TJ, like they gotta get they gotta like fact check this kind of stuff. That's just he's just putting some things out there.

herb 47:40

They don't have to when they erase they erase they're they're Buddhists. They're Buddhists, they erase the past and the future.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

These cats erase the past and the future. That's what that's telling everybody. Day one, you want to get your kid in the taekwondo, you look up USA Taekwondo. That's the first thing on the page that this guy is the best ever to ever do it, and now he's a part of the team. And this cult, these coaches are the best ever. Like, this is what's being told to people.

herb 48:04

Speaking about guys who can't fight their way out of a paper bag in a room if they were in there with a bunch of dogs and animals. I can tell you this. I don't know the guy, I don't care about the guy. He looks like a K-pop boy band guy. I this is not a fighter. You put him in the room with a fighter, this guy lasts 10 seconds to 20. Tops.

Juan 48:24

It's funny, like it's funny that you say that TJ, like, you know, these guys came over and they were gonna revolutionize the sport and stuff like that. And then now they're the coaching, and you look who they have in that room, you know, coaching and stuff like that. You know, with it's just it's a it's an absolute joke.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

And and and again, you know, the he's just all up in the last what two years, two and a half years. You just you know, yeah, exactly.

Juan 48:45

That yeah, that's even worse. That's even worse that people have been plugging along and nothing, but now they bring these two people.

herb 48:51

If you're in a performance culture, ask yourself this question. So you're the CEO, you get hired, you got a board that's asleep, but they hire you, and then you make a promise, you're gonna fix stuff. You come in, you get a guy who's arguably talented, and by the way, wasn't he he didn't matter either. I like Paul, he's a nice guy. He didn't matter internationally, his name's not even in the conversation. But let's say he could do he went to him, yeah. He was one of the guys that helped Great Britain go around and flush the toilet and find the 10 seconds of athletes they found from karate that came in and did the new style of nonsense. Okay. His job was to come in and fix it, develop coaches. He's developed nothing, he's developed no athletes, he's developed nobody. He got his bag carrying boy brown, interesting color for the name, and represents the kind of performance he's had. And he did, he's done nothing. They've outsourced the talent to others, others develop develop talent and bring them talent, and they've done nothing. And then even the ones that go there and do something, who by the way did it by themselves. This girl who's complaining now, she wasn't developed by them. And so who have they developed? And then they go and flush the toilet again, see what stays in the bottom of the bowl, and they bring them in as coaches. They didn't develop anything, they didn't win, and they they they haven't done anything either. So you've got the worst of the worst handling the worst, and then being handled by the bad. And so, what why do you expect results? And then you take generational talent, and I'm gonna give you that they have a generational talent now who hypothetically talk about a broken pipeline. This guy with the right coaching has the athletic system, maybe the sport intelligence, I don't know, to win. And the coaches can't get this guy to win, but they can get him to cheerlead and tick tock and wick walk and and uh put on shoes and take his shirt off. That's not that hard.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

I I have to agree with you. I mean, I we know how tremendously talented he is. We know how tremendous. I mean, he has a lot of skill. Yeah, I feel bad for him. I feel bad for him. He's he's been consistent though. What do you what what is what is that to say? That's his that's his talent.

herb 51:04

Consistent, consistent. So here's the problem. Consistent in a world where it's hold on a second. Think about pro sports. If you're a consistent third place guy, second place guy, occasional first place guy, second place guy, third place guy, that's not what America wants. America likes winners. Michael Phelps is a winner. Michael Phelps, Edwin Moses was a winner. The United States has a history of winners. Dorothy Hamill, winner, Olympic gymnasts, winners. Swimmers, up and down the road, winners. Unfortunately, that's why it's called competition. It's not a feel-good thing. You need to win. And when you stop winning, that's okay too. We'll revere you for the things you have won, but we're not going to talk about the things you almost won. Nobody talks about the things you almost win. You talk about the things you win. So, with regard to what's going on right now, which is it works.

SPEAKER_04 51:59

I think that's what's I think that's the whole thing that ties into being the best ever. I mean, like, like I said, I know we've all had

PR Claims, New Coaches, And No Results

SPEAKER_04 52:05

the best ever.

herb 52:05

They don't have a guy in the rooms for being the best of anything.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

Yeah, I know, but I think to even be in that conversation, you gotta have an Olympic gold medal, right?

herb 52:13

Can I just win the show? But here's the question for you. Right now, and I know you don't know this. I have, and let me make sure everybody's around here. I have in my testicles half of the best athlete ever developed for the Olympic sport of taekwondo. I'm keeping him in the reserves, and one day I'm gonna release that half and have an egg make the best. Let's keep talking about the thing I have, which is my half of a potential gold medalist trapped in my testicles. You buying a ticket to that show? Come on, that's what USA Taekwondo is doing. Don't worry, we're gonna have performance one day. I know we told you eight years ago we're gonna have performance. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be the best ever. I'm the best.

Juan 53:05

Come on, let's let's like I I mean, listen, if if if that was my athlete, I'd be like super proud of him, you know, that he was consistent. But to Young's point, Grandmaster's point, like if if if if this guy is the greatest that everyone thinks he is and stuff like that, then you gotta win. You gotta win. You gotta win it the whole thing, and you gotta win in the big and you gotta win the world, you gotta win the Willow Picks, you gotta you gotta win when you're supposed to win. It's it's no different than Charles Barkley's a great basketball player, but he's not even in the conversation because he didn't win in that he didn't win a championship. I mean, it's just there's a lot of unfortunately, there's a lot of players like that that are very good. We talked about some Korean guys that are super, super good. Maybe they were, you know, Kim Chodo was considered a a good, a great player, but he made he won won the world championship. So he can't be in the conversation, you know, compared to all the other, you know, Koreans that have won three, you know, two and three in Asian games and stuff like that. So it's just that's just the way life is. And so right now, it's crazy that we're celebrating this, and I this is I'm I'm gonna say this respectfully, this meteorcrity, you know, that everything is just it's okay. It's okay. It's not okay. You gotta get to the finish line. You gotta get to the finish line. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 54:21

Yeah, but the finish line is the the finish line is the academy.

Juan 54:24

Well, you that was a great point you made there before. That's the that's the finish line right now.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

That's the That's the problem, you know? That's the rah-rah moment. That's the you know, I am somebody in this country in this sport moment, you know? Yeah and and then you're kind of just on your own. And if you can figure it out, you figure it out. Like I said, I mean, if we I I hate to say it for sure. I mean, going into the Olympic Games and being a number two seed, you gotta come home with that Olympic medal, I think. I think that was our best Olympic start. I mean, since the ranking history, right? Since we're doing ranking for Olympic, that's our best Olympic start. I think you gotta you gotta come home. And when that's not a knock on him, that's just when we just talk about pure sport and results and having to do certain things at certain moments. I think those are those are moments, you know. Those are you you need one, you you gotta get one as a as a coaching staff.

herb 55:08

I found I found the I found the USAT's latest foray into finding the best talent in America. So this is the great this is the great Todd Weeks, and you may not know who he is, but he is uh he's developing the future of USA Taekwondo, and here he is sparring with her. He's the latest on their list, he's on the short list to be the Olympic coach. So if he can block three times, he wins, and then he actually just got hit with none, he got hit with a water bottle. But um, welcome to America. Anyway, I'll stop now because you know I I got distracted, but got it.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

You know, no, that's not good. And like since we're still talking about just on the men's side since 2012, I mean you were in the chair coach. We're talking about men's medals since 2012. That's a long time. That's a long time, and they've been there for a long time. I don't, I mean, something's gotta be wrong. I mean, you can go, we just missed on that day. We know the Olympics is a very special day, it's a very special moment to walk in and walk out with. Obviously, you want a gold medal, you you know, you want to be in the finals, you want a chance at that one, but it's uh it's a it's a mission to walk out with anything. We know that's just what the kind of day the Olympic Games is. Um we're we're still seeing it's it's 2012, 2016, 2020, 2024. You know, we're we're we're out here right now on the men's side. It's it's it's it's kind of heavy. I think our men always showed up in some way, you know, at that on that day for that event in that situation. Yeah, marking whatever the rest of the year looked like, but you know, those are those are big moments, and I think we gotta that that's gotta be an issue. It's got it's gotta be an issue, and then we gotta I don't know how you fix it when we're talking about what you talking about with our talent being is like soccer and all that other stuff, but I I think it can be fixed. I I don't I don't think we're in the same boat.

Juan 56:57

I mean man, maybe that's a great little transition. It was it's it's funny, but I have all these like little weird bugs in my house right now because it's so freaking hot. I'm kept on looking at things. Um let's just lie. Um talking about like uh development. I know, sorry, development. Interesting because you know, you know, Nashville's is coming up, and and I've been looking around and everybody's having camps nowadays. It's pretty it's I think it's a good thing, right? I think it's a good thing that people are having camps and trying to you know bring people together and give them some information because I think it's a lot more than the organization is doing because I know there are auditions coming up in August, but or July or whenever it is. But it's funny because I was uh I was in um I was in Minnesota young and uh I had a training camp at Coach Oile Lee's place. You know, and he does it every year there. That's one of my stops there every year in June. And it's kind of nice because it's before nationals and you know, everybody can kind of get together. And we we have a really interesting program because we really focus everything around the training, but in addition, all this like interaction, all these different things that we do, whether we go to the lake house, whether we play pickleball, whether we play, you know, uh bowling, all these different things. So, but we create this environment, this community, and it's not just about doing the drills, it's just not about fighting, it's about you know, kind of bringing everybody together and enjoying the whole process. I was thinking about it. I'm like, as good as the training was this week, like I almost felt like it was second, it was it was in the backseat compared to the time that they had, the enjoyment that they had. And I thought about that. I'm like, and I'm talking about some of my own athletes that I brought, you know, to to to Minnesota. I mean, you know, we're training, you know, two on Friday, two on Saturday, Sunday morning, you know, so we're doing a lot of training, but all they talked about was the interaction and the fun. And the trainings were hard. We brought in Coach Diego from Brazil, we brought in Hike from Brazil, and so there was some really good quality going on, but yet it was still surrounded by all this fun. And I think that could be a model that should probably, well, it's a model that we've done forever, right? TJ, you can attest to that with the peak performance. You know, we've and I had I had people that came from there are not part of this, you know, our group, people from Chicago, people that are in the national team in the past. We had Will Cunningham, we had Chloe Chua, we had James Chua, you know, come out there. Of course, we had Olympians and and world champions there as well. But to kind of see all those people just bonding and really enjoying the process, I thought it was pretty special. It was it was pretty fun. So I don't know, when I when I see our country, we don't have any of that. We have a pseudo uh training camps, but there's no there's no real life to it, there's no real enjoyment to it. So I think that's a big missing element, you know. But I think that's what that's what's uh allowed us to stay relevant. You know, I always tell people we're not the best, we're not the worst. We have always been riding the the waves, but we've always stayed at a pretty high level. And I think it's because the community that we've built, you know, people don't give us enough you know credit for that, you know, they want to look at the wins and losses, but I think the peak performance model has created a community where people are able to be successful, it'd be successful and thrive.

herb 1:00:17

The peak performance model should have been the national model, right? So if USA Taekwondo was smarter, right, they would have taken the model, your original model, what you did, which was revolutionary, and they would have taken it and said, Oh, this is a good idea. They they would have used it, expanded it, and then built on it, and they'd have a successful pipeline. So it it's a question of being more expansive and inclusive rather than being more restrictive and exclusive. Um, and that's to the detriment of the sport. So it shouldn't be a secret to how to get to the next level of taekwondo. That starts with your coaches providing the right information. And we started this when we had the coaching program. Educate the coaches. Because if you educate the coaches, you'll educate more athletes. The athletes will get better, you'll have more athletes. It's really not that hard. The math isn't that hard.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:05

And your program is there is no next level. There is no next level for those.

Juan 1:01:10

I was just gonna say it. There's been no, there's been zero effort to do that.

herb 1:01:13

Like I said, I mean that's why you don't have any results.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:16

That's why you don't have either you're in you're you're out you're with them or you're not with them.

Juan 1:01:20

But what I was talking about, like the development of the athletes, there's and development of the coaching pipeline. There's been no investment. There's been zero investment, zero, zero investment. And that's that's why I said, like, listen, I know like you know, the group that I'm working with right now, we've we've been on a very good cycle. And I know it could drop at any moment. I know how how fickle the sport is. But what I will tell you that we've doing, like, again, nobody knows, but also we have eight kids going to China for two weeks, boys and girls, you know, under 21 years old. Like, we're doing things like that. We have, I told you, we have our level three coaching where we've we've whittled people down to 12, 10 coaches that we're gonna bring in and mentor, we're calling our our mentor phase, where they get hands-on at eat at gyms, they get private, you know, PowerPoint presentations and just on different topics. Not how do I kick, how do I train, what's the structure of it, but like real coaching, like models and stuff like that, like communication and how to create this environment. And it's just uh again, it's not for now, but it's for the future. And that's where you can have you can have sustained competitive excellence. Let me use the buzzword, the buzz phrase,

Camps, Community, And A Better Model

Juan 1:02:35

right? We don't have any of that. We have win now, and that's it. What are we gonna do tomorrow? Oh shit, who do we got? That's what's that's what's happening. That's what's happening right now. Because if it wasn't happening, we wouldn't have the same athletes in this country's pipeline that we had since 2020. Am I wrong, TJ? Same heavy, welter, whip, it's the same. There's no new blood. They leave, they come back. You know what I mean? We're talking with the same people. It's crazy. It's crazy. So there's been none. And then don't get me started on the coaching program because there hasn't been anything. There's been a couple people uh exactly, they used a couple people like the TJ Curries of the world that chewed them up, spit them out, and they finally got somebody that would just be happy enough, smile enough, and do whatever they say with the coaching staff that they have right now because that's what they do.

herb 1:03:21

They have Sherpers, they have Sherpers, they got guys they're climbing to the top of the mountain in their mind, and they hired uh Hill Himalayan Nepalis Sherpers that'll carry the bags. They got bag carriers, they got chogi boys, they got guys that'll carry the bags, and girls that'll carry the bags and not make any trouble and tell them what a good job they're doing and pat their feet. So, I mean, that's not a coaching program. A coaching program, the coach underneath you is supposed to replace you. That's what happens. That's the way it's supposed to be.

Juan 1:03:48

They haven't built anybody, I'll tell you that right now. Speaking of the the organization, so that we have the nationals coming up. There's two nationals. Who won?

herb 1:03:55

Let me ask you a question. Who won the who won the uh world championship in basketball?

Juan 1:04:00

The world championship with the NBA?

herb 1:04:02

Yeah. The Knicks. Okay, who was the coach?

Juan 1:04:06

Uh Brown, Michael.

herb 1:04:08

Where was he before?

Juan 1:04:10

He was, man, he got fired from LA, he got fired from Cleveland. It's crazy.

herb 1:04:15

He had a you know where you know who he was under? Sacramento. Before that? He was on the World Championship Warriors teams. He was on his system, he left to get space to go somewhere else. Yeah, he was developed by he was developed by but one of the best coaches in the business. So yeah, I mean, it definitely he definitely learned from him. It was a legacy. It's a legacy, it's a legacy. It's been a couple places. Soccer, the the three best coaches in Ivy League and D1 all came from one coach that that that is uh that also has the one of the other coaches from D1, Ivy's, and Stanford. How does that happen? They're all they all had the same guy. Mentor could coach his mentor. Goal. Columbia just scored in the 40th minute. Dude, I'm still shaking from my memory of being in Miami and Columbia playing. Was that Columbia playing Argentina? Where I almost lost my life trying to get into a stadium where I had eighth row seats that were gifted to me by someone. It was scary, and they were I'm I'm not going to that game. I the Colombians love soccer. No, they were nuts. I took my life in my hands.

Juan 1:05:26

You did. I ain't gonna lie, you did. They were, I mean, they are breaking into who are they playing now?

herb 1:05:31

They're playing uh Uzbekistan. Those guys are tough too.

Juan 1:05:36

So it's a good game, but uh they've they've had a couple scoring chances both sides, but um, they just broke through.

herb 1:05:42

So but we're at a min we're at an hour. We what else we got for the good of the order, and we can keep the rest for next.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:49

Um you're about to say something about the nationals.

Juan 1:05:52

I was just gonna say, like, you know, I know there's been all this talk about working together and stuff like that. I'm curious. Oh, yeah, how many no, just real fast, how many, how many

herb 1:06:00

athletes actually cross go back and forth because I did some digging and uh if I'm not mistaken let me I think it I if you had to guess like how many people try to do both both events between you know the other organizations what what what would you think what would you your what would your number be I'll give it to you 15135 I think the biggest uh the biggest one ever was when it was bold in Florida there was one in Fort Lauderdale one in Jacksonville people going back and forth and I think the total was uh what is it six like like 1230 230 there was like 60 something Pumse people like 170 uh fighters but it was mainly cadets and juniors that's including but that's including forums too yes yes fighting fighting fighting like once 170 oh okay I wasn't even thinking about the like Pumsei people less than five less than 0.5 percent of the supposed membership if you want to give it a real a real name so that's what they're doing this for it's like and that was it that was in the same state you know I'm saying like you can literally get in the car and drive five hours four hours and I don't understand net traffic and all that kind of stuff but at the end of the day the question is net new unique visitors right not not the repeat visitors not how many website

Nationals Numbers And Closing Predictions

herb 1:07:15

people sign up to your website or listen to this podcast but how many net new do you have that's what matters so let's say that those net new were half that or twice that to 200 who cares what that's some reason yeah you know what these guys do like in all these terms I I figured this out because I've I've been to some of these events and people like oh we had 500 people I'm like not really not 500 people here what they do is they have 270 and people do breaking and and forms and so that's three events so they count it as three participants participants doesn't make sense because I've been there I've been to a couple of these tournaments and I'm like there's no way there's 600 people here no it's impossible it's such a weird way to count why yeah yeah well that's why it's got to be unique it's got to be unique all right well we'll get back to that on the next one all I can say is go well next week we'll talk hopefully USA whoops up on Australia. Well they better listen don't don't put too much on the first team you know that that that's like the big kids they should beat up on whatever country that was Paraguay's not bad Paraguay's not bad normally man I'm telling you they're not bad they come out of South Africa and I don't come away with 20 points the only team that did what they were supposed to do was Germany. Germany came out and said we're gonna keep scoring goals till we get tired. And so Spain struggled all these guys struggled goal but anyway so uh with that said I'm not saying the U.S.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

should win they should win more they need a better follow-through on their product but I think I'm not sure they're gonna beat Australia and we are out all right hold on listen it's going down oh Alex J, Brown and True are going down to the chance of Olay Olay Today is the day that the revolution will be televised The ball will fly past the slow, the old and the less bold to be direct into the back of the net with no regrets you can run but you can't hide from the power of the foot the defeat will come at the feet of the Olympic gold, bronze and silver who bend it like Beckham stroll like Messi and head it like Ronaldo Stelly will be jelly