Why Registration Deadlines Keep Moving In AAU And USA Taekwondo

Deadlines that keep “extending” aren’t just a scheduling quirk, they’re a tell. We dig into what’s happening around AAU Taekwondo and USA Taekwondo national championships, from shifting registration windows to rising fees, and why the numbers matter more than the talking points. If you’ve ever planned a season around a deadline, paid for flights and hotels, or watched rules change at the last minute, this conversation will feel familiar.

We also go straight at the bigger issue: when Taekwondo leadership puts money, titles, and optics ahead of athlete development, the culture rots. We talk loyalty and consequences, election-style politics, and the strange need to rationalize things everyone knows are wrong. Then we zoom out to coaching credibility and performance. Who belongs in the chair? What does “Olympic coach” actually mean? And why do some programs create real confidence while others sell hype with Instagram-ready branding?

From highlight tapes after losses to selective enforcement of “decorum,” we connect today’s social media behavior to the incentives organizations reward. We also unpack athlete funding in Olympic Taekwondo, including who gets supported to travel and compete and who still has to pay their own way at the highest levels.

If you care about clean governance, athlete-centered development, and real coaching standards in Taekwondo, listen through and share this with a coach, parent, or teammate. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what’s the single change that would most improve Taekwondo in the United States?

Transcript

Satirical Taekwondo Dream Cold Open

SPEAKER_07 0:01

USA type quant. We want the coulda been, should have been, would have been. The best need not apply, just the rest. You are not needed if you ever met it. If we know your name, this is not your game. And if you shine too bright, you'll detract from our TikTok media feed of the less qualified We employ. The champion we didn't destroy, but we'll still treat you like we need a rest. When it's the USA type one do dream. I want my share. Of the USA, Taekwondo Break. The fast food and Apple Bible. USA, Taekwondo Dream. My four-wheel drive and four-wheel drive. USA Taekwondo Dream. I wanna go home early and post. The highlight of my best hope. When the stomach gets kicked into the stands in USA. Taekwondo. USA. Taekwondo dream. The champion we didn't destroy, but we'll still treat you like we need a res in USA. Taekwondo. You want the bench, should have been with the bands. The best need not apply, just the rest. You were not needed if you ever met it, if we know your name. This is not your game. And if you shine to right, you're the drag. From a TikTok need to your feet. To the less qualified we employ. The champion we didn't destroy, but we'll still treat you like we need a rest. When it's the USA Taekwondo dream. Fast food and everybody.

SPEAKER_06 1:26

USA Taekwondo Dream.

SPEAKER_07 1:28

My four-wheel drive and four-wheel drive. USA Taekwondo dream.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

I wanna go home early and poke. The highlight of my best hope.

SPEAKER_07 1:37

When the stomach gets kicked into the stands in USA. Taekwondo. The USA. Taekwondo dream. I want my share of the USA. Taekwondo dream. I want my share of the USA. Taekwondo. The fast food double five. USA, Taekwondo. My four-wheel drive and four-wheel drive. USA Taekwondo dreams. I wanna go home early and post. The highlight of our best hopes. When this comment gets kicked into the stands in USA. USA. Taekwondo dreams.

herb 2:24

It

Hosts Check In And Nationals Ahead

herb 2:25

is your favorite crew. It is not Monday but Tuesday, and that's because we were waiting for Mr. TJ to get back home. He was in places, who knows? But he had his thing going on today. He is fully energized. He has the Berry Monkey beverage in hand, ready to go. Show us what you got. Dude, I gotta find it now. I love it. I love sours. I love sours. How are we doing coaching?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I'm good, I'm good. I used to just tell him I'm back from the school, came straight back. I gotta hop on the podcast real quick. Usually it's Mondays, but this is Tuesday, so fight because we got the time today, so let's get into it.

Juan 3:03

What's up with you guys? That's good too, man. Just uh had a great weekend. I was home. We did a bunch of things, uh ordering, uh cleaning out the school, throwing away mats, blah blah blah blah blah. Uh just getting ready for, of course, the upcoming events, and then of course some of my other professional business stuff that I have to take care of. So yeah, just kind of doing a bunch of things and actually uh CJ me and you we're we're talking over the week and that's some pretty cool man, so go back to some pretty cool topics about Taekwondo week that I'd like to get into a little bit later, but since the um since the the nationals are coming up with you know both organizations, I thought we know maybe chat a little bit about them. Um

Deadline Extensions And Why They Happen

Juan 3:46

you know, we always talk about uh sometimes there's so much easy material out there. And uh you know, I I don't know, I think there was uh something that was kind of just brought to my attention uh about uh one organization has uh been uh what they do, they looks like they extended their registration a little bit. That that I didn't get say caused you know some controversy or anything like that, but a couple people commented on it. But I thought it was pretty interesting because uh one gentleman, you know, I actually commented, I I I I made some smiley faces on his comment, and he made basically what he said was, you know, what's the purpose of a deadline? You know, I mean if we're you know at this point you might as well just you know have same-day registration. And he made it kind of, you know, I laughed basically what you think. I'm like, well, I'm assuming that event starts pretty soon, I don't know, because I'm not gonna be attending, uh obviously. But um, you know, I'm like, yeah, you're you're right. You know, what's the what's the what's the what's the reason to have a deadline, you know, when you're having ten more days to registration, and nine more days, five more days, three more days, two more days, and then oh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna open it up a little bit. And I thought it was pretty funny because this guy you know makes these comments and then you know, then there's some defense of it, why they're doing it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

I blame it on hundreds of families for getting to register, and and you know what? But the the reality is for two things, that's all AI. Once again, I I just can't unseat all of it. The AI like non-stop. And I feel like I've seen that post before. We're listening, we urge you. We're gonna do it. Every year, I think it gets extended. I don't think I don't think nope, that's never ended. It's always like, oh, we're gonna extend it a couple more days.

Juan 5:32

Oh, yeah, probably. I mean, I I I hear that a lot, you know, from from the organizational side. But I I guess that the funny thing is like you said, hundreds, hundreds, so there's thousands of people that did it on time, but there's hundreds that I didn't know that. You know, and I listen, I I know business is business and money is money, but this just always every time I see things like this, I can't help but going back to what we talked about with your phone tapes. You know, it's always about money, it's always about money. I mean, they're trying so hard to have more than they had last year for some reason. It's it's almost like a pissing contest. Like we can't have less. And that's what it is. I mean, I think the number was at 3,100. I from what I heard, there was 3,400 last year. So they got to meet that or or or or break that. But it's it's it's funny, it's just about squeezing that last 50, 60, 100 people, whatever it is. If if there's a hundred people that didn't register, and you know, I saw one guy say, Oh, I can I can squeeze in a few of my extra, you know, you know, two or three other people. I'm like, you're you're part of that organization.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I was about to say either part of the staff. Like you, you know the dates. They sing you the dates, you're in the meetings with them when they're making these dates. Like, what do you mean a couple more people? I saw that conversation. I I know I saw that.

Juan 6:51

And I know their school is 100% a sports school. So it's like, you know, all the deadlines, everybody. It's just again, it's just a weak you know, attempt of of rationalizing it. You know, that's what I thought was kind of weird. Why are you why are we rationalizing this? There's people trying to get visas, stop it. You don't have this giant influx of people. You might have 10, you might have 20. Don't act like you got hundreds of people trying to get visas to come to the AAU. That's just such a it's just it's it's so ridiculous. So that's the Patu 12 though, coach.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

It's one of the most important tournaments in Patu.

Juan 7:25

Well, again, I I'm not I don't even know about any of that stuff, but that I don't know what that means. Mean either. I don't really know what it means. But I I have some numbers because I saw like the let's say right now, until they, you know, do their deadline stuff. They have 31, 3,175 uh competitors registered with six hundred six thousand eight hundred and twenty-six entries. That means you know, some people are doing forms and fighting or weapons and fighting or forms in in traditional forms or whatever the case may be. And I'm I'm looking at that and I it sounds like a pretty good number, you know. But I I don't have the 24 numbers, but the 23 numbers they had over 4,000 athletes, over 900 coaches with over 12,000 people registered for different events. 12,000. You're at six right now. Double it. That's how far things are dropping. People want to act like things are good, people want to act like things are are going in the right. You're 12,000 down, and that's not my numbers, that's their numbers that everybody can see. So you could put a spin on this any way you want it, but these guys are are struggling for dollars, they're trying to make more money, they're keeping it open a little a little bit longer, and I mean, and and you know what? I should I should say, I mean, they also raised all the prices, too. You know what I'm saying? So maybe that turns some people around, people off. Maybe they're making a little bit more money, but listen, the participation is down and the entries are down. That's just the reality of it.

Loyalty, Consequences, And Organization Politics

SPEAKER_01 9:05

And you know, when you're in all these different states, you know, rigging elections and telling people how to vote and what to vote and and and telling, you know, helping them make clubs and showing them walking them through the process of cheating. You know what I mean? Walking them through the process of cheating, the people in the organization walking them through the process of cheating. That's why I struggle with guys like that when that post comes. I don't know whether you want to talk about it a little bit, but um when they start, you know, you someone defending this and and someone pointing out how bad this is and how people have to make real choices. And you know, we talk about loyalty a lot on this show, and we talk about what what that what that word means to our sport, you know, and what what it what our our martial art, I would say, our our traditional sport of what it what it's supposed to be. And you got these guys on there defending it, you know, saying people didn't people had a choice, they they didn't have to not go. And it was one of my one of my students, I know you said you want to talk about a little bit, I'll let you can't remember. It was one of one of my guys who, I mean, you you like and say you made a good point. I went from being the national team head coach to suspend it from the organization. Think about that. And then you tell people have a choice. What choice is there? If if these guys if these guys realize there aren't any that many choices, then maybe they would do better. Like he should probably just do the right thing. That's the choice. You do the right thing. There is only one choice in that situation. There's only one choice in most situations. You do the right thing. You don't get to to to try to navigate and justify why something is okay, but it's not okay. Like, I I struggle with those kind of people, but I'm starting to see slowly the more and more and more, they're all the same. They're all just, they're all just sheep, they're all just just robotic, they're like they cheer for things. Like, you guys knew this was gonna happen. All those people on those things, oh, this is so great, this is so great. Someone either texted you and told you to post that, or you were in on the thing and say, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna push this up and make this sound good. It's all a hoax.

Team Trials Shift And Added Travel Costs

Juan 10:50

Listen, I I'm gonna say this. Let me go, let me let me just finish with these numbers real fast because you know about it. No, no, it's a it's it's a good point, and maybe it's a good segue, but you know, they're I I think what people are are probably starting to figure out, possibly, like these traditional forums people, these point fighting people, these demo people, all these people used to get their team spots for AAU at the Nationals, right? They go there and it's all done there. Well, now it's all new because Joe Merzo wants people to go to the AAU Junior Olympics because it's a ghost town, because nobody goes to it. We AAU has traditionally had their team trials there, which is a small number of people. So the way to way to get more Tekwano people there, because there's nobody that goes there, now they're having all those people have to travel yet another place and have a team trial. And so a lot of those people are probably looking at that saying, damn, I gotta fly to Des Moines, Iowa. I gotta get a hotel to Des Moines, Iowa, I gotta take off work to go to Des Moines, Iowa, and I gotta pay a registration fee again. So everything that they've done historically to make the team has just doubled, if not more. You know what I'm saying? So and and for no other reason than I was about to say, is there a reason?

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Like what you're so competitive that you can't decide who the best is. I know. Invest all the money nationals, it's all money. Now you're taking these same kids and going to another tournament, and the parents are all money, and you can't disguise it. It's blatant.

Juan 12:20

Tradition traditional form goes go to an open karate tournament. You know what I'm saying? Like that kind of says traditional fight or point fighting, go to an open aka grand. Well, I don't know what it's called anymore. It's it's in Chicago, like Warriors Cup, I think. But it's it's crazy to make them go through another step. You know, Olympic sparring is the only one that they've ever done it with, you know, and historically. And, you know, there's some argument that, you know, maybe the draws and the seating and stuff like that where you made it better for a round robin, you know, competition. But it's just crazy. It's the numbers are down, the entries are down, you know, the expenses are up, and the and the requirements are up because you have to add you most people have to do more, you know, which kind of brings me into Mr. Mr. Wilcox. He's a good man, he's a good taekwondo man. He is nothing but respectful when his his son wins and his son loses. He's just a good Midwestern man. And he made a comment. He said it's a shame because historically my son has gone to this AU event for the last 13 years of his life. I mean, I think the kid's what? Is he 20, 21? So you're about to be 21. Okay, he's 21 years old. Since the kid has been nine, eight years old. He's been going to this event religiously. And this year, he's the national team member, he's a team captain, and he's not going. And I think the dad said something like he he wasn't allowed to go or something like that. And these guys, say less, my guys. Say less. Just let the man vent. But when you rationalize it and go, I want to clarify one thing. First of all, we love you. This, this, this. I want to clarify your son was not, you know, uh banned from coming or suspended from coming. He had every opportunity to come. Of course he did. You're right. But how is he gonna go when his coach is suspended? Why would he go out of the respect for you, loyalty for you, integrity to himself, knowing what's going on, go to that tournament? It's not necessary.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Because that's what they do. But it's a double edge.

Juan 14:24

It's a double-edged sword because I know some of these people that when it comes to their own athletes, they won't shake a certain person's hand or they won't, you know, because the coach doesn't like a certain person, the athletes follow through out of respect for the coach. So you can't have it both ways. You can't say, Oh, you can still come, Sheldon. But in my case, I'm gonna make sure my athletes don't do this or that because that's how we that's how we stick together. It's just so say less. Just don't try to rationalize it. And that's that's the problem with all these guys. I mean, they're they

Moral Posturing Versus Doing Right

Juan 14:58

rationalize it. And yeah, I was thinking about this, and and you know, I don't know what you guys think about like religion and and stuff like that, because I'm a religious person. I am the first one to admit everyone, I'm not perfect. I make a lot of mistakes, I say a lot of things wrong, I get it wrong sometimes, and I have to go and apologize and correct myself or you know, you know, talk to the pre person that maybe I I I I didn't understand them correctly. We're all none of us are are perfect beings, but I really can't stand these guys that act so morally high, so religiously high, and then knowingly support things that they know are wrong. Oh, it's it doesn't affect me, but you know what's going on is wrong. Like, isn't that a huge conflict? I I mean TJ, you mentioned a couple episodes ago about respect and dignity and the martial arts and how we how this code that we're supposed to have. That shit's gone. There's a bunch of fake people, fake martial artists, you know, fake black belts. Just keep going, you know. Again, and I'm not saying I'm one of the most real people, but I'm also not making excuses for people when I know things are wrong. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

I mean, I just the ones that are behind it and doing the most are like the most righteous, like they could do no wrong. Like, like you guys are you guys are a part of an organization, whether it be from the top to the bottom, that is literally cheating at elections to get what you want. It's out there. So many people know. That's the crazy part. So many people know, and they sit by and they still, but some of y'all make me sick because y'all still go and try to get these other spots and other districts and other places for what? Y'all got friends in other places, like I told you last episode, two episodes ago, that are being pushed out by these people that you're trying to stay in good with. What does that say about a lot of you?

Juan 16:49

I don't know, I don't know the exact numbers, and but somebody was telling me that they had a meeting and there was like 80% of the people they did the guy didn't even know. He's like, there was like four or five people I knew, and they're all brand new. He says, All the old people are either either they left on their own or they got pushed out. He's like, I don't really know. But he goes, I didn't know virtually anybody. I was like, that's crazy. You're going to uh national championships and you don't even know. I mean, I understand like one turnover, there's a hot debate or a hot, you know, hotly contested, you know, uh election in one state, but you have as much turnover? That's crazy. Like I said, either people are running away or they're getting pushed away, and we know for a fact, you know, I mean, how many different states have we run into where people are calling us and telling us the exact same thing happened that happened in North Carolina, the exact same thing happened in Virginia, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

It's just, it's and these, and these are the guys that are sitting at the top going, you tell me you talk about religion and righteousness, all that stuff. That's that can't be, I don't care what religion you are. I personally am not super religious. I I I try to, like you just said, I try to do right as often as possible. I try to fix things if I mess up. All the things you're supposed to. I try I'm courteous, you uh courteous, I try to make sure I'm empathetic to people and all sorts of things. I just that's just who I am. I try to be. But like you guys know you're cheating and doing evil things. And I say evil for very specifically, it's evil. And then you stand in front of all these people and try to lead them and show them how good you are and show them, look at what I'm doing, look at, look at, look at, look at the direction I'm trying to get this organization to go in. You're building your pockets just like everyone. Our sport has become so overdrawn with money. It's all about money. Oh, I know we'll get to it later, but all and again, I know me and you do seminars, and I always try to pride myself on making sure I can give value to the room I was in. I'm watching most of these seminar prices just keep, like you said, like the tournament prices, just keep going up and up and up and up, and they're just robbing our sport. They're not teaching people anything. It's it's all hoax and tricks, and and oh, listen, I know you you bring 50 guys from this school, you bring 50, 25 guys from this school. People, there's not even people want to be in the room. They're being put in the room to make sure that the people that are there are getting paid just so they can go out and hang out with them afterwards and you know touch elbows and oh, look, I'm a part of the organization. You guys are all the problem, every single one of them is the problem.

AAU And USAT Corruption Roots

herb 19:24

Let me remind you guys of something about the AAU. First of all, the AAU taekwondo was created by a criminal. The guy was just basically a judo guy, Korean guy, and he originally ran the AAU, which became USAT. And the USAT, USTU was re run run by his progeny, who was also a criminal, and they ran it like a criminal enterprise. And uh and that means that they had inside dealing, people got deals, people got chosen coaches by donating money, not all that money made it to the organization. Next thing that happened was the Americans who were pushed out of the AAU or pushed out of taekwondo eventually got to take over the AAU. And when they got to take over the AAU, they did it because they were unhappy with the criminal enterprise, the lack of ethics and morals of the judo people that were running the sport. So they went to the AAU because that's the only place that they could find that they could actually go to and have a place to be. So now what you have is the people who left because of the lack of ethics and morals. And over the years they've had different guys. There was a guy that used to run the thing, he ran it because he was trained by that group. He ran it the same way, but just ran it to the exclusion of non-compliant Koreans. So, with that said, they then that same group then decided they were gonna exclude those people, go to the AAU that was gonna be their place. They weren't in the Olympic sandbox, they were by themselves, they were collecting all the money, and then there were a couple of good guys that ran the AAU. Well, what you have now is a mix of non-compliant Koreans and non-compliant Americans and non guys who don't matter. Let me be clear. I have no idea, I don't know any of these guys. And like I've said before, my general rule for knowing stuff is if they don't know me, they don't know Taekwondo. And if I don't know them, they're definitely nobody in Taekwondo. I don't know this guy, oh, I don't know the other guy, I don't know any of these guys. I don't know Alex, I don't know his sister Sally. None of these guys mattered because they never did anything in the sport. So why would you expect these guys to care about the sport? As it was said in the one audio tape we had, this guy cared about money. He's a money guy, he don't care about Anything else. Now, to be fair, USA Taekwondo has the same problem. These guys don't care about anything. They care about keeping their position for their second, third, and fourth tier people who never saw the light of day. They don't have a single winning athlete on their staff. Not one. Not any. They don't have a single winning coach on their staff, including the COO and the CEO, who's a shyster and a schlackmeister from Australia or England, where I mix him up every time I see the OxyClean commercial. So why would you expect any of these guys? Because we couldn't even get the guys who actually did taekwondo, to be honest. So if you want to go down the tree, the tree, which started in Korea, they were corrupt and they they said it. And that's why we find ourselves in this

Champions, Pedigree, And Who Should Lead

herb 22:58

place. Well, the question becomes, because I've been writing something on this and I'm working on this program, why did we all start Taekwondo? We all started Taekwondo because we wanted to be better people. And in being that better person, we thought that this was a vehicle towards self-enlightenment, towards becoming a better person, moral, ethic, and virtue. And a handful of us, because we competed at a high level, still think that. Why would you expect the ass clowns from the back of the room that didn't have enough skill or perseverance or determination to make it? So I don't I don't expect this clown, the chubby, the chubby non-performer that's running stuff to do anything. He never did anything in the ring. Why would he do anything outside the ring?

Juan 23:42

The funny thing is, is like it it I've said this to TJ and to people. I'm like, never never discount people's ego. Never discount people's ego because most of these people, in the old days, they wanted face, right? They wanted to be on events at national teams, and they want to go say they were not U.S. national team coaches, which we'll talk about later, right? Young, that's what they wanted to do. They wanted to get to warm up and say I was a national team coach.

herb 24:10

And they paid they paid for the privilege. They donated five or ten or fifteen or twenty thousand dollars, which then went to a party for the Korean leadership that we never saw a penny of. And then they were they were head coach, they'd come and sit in our chair and and distract us, to be clear. Right.

Juan 24:26

So let's fast forward to now. Now these guys want titles. They want titles, they want to say, I am district chair, I am the chair, I am uh whatever it is. They want a title and they want to want to make money. At least the old dudes donated money and went to some party, maybe you got us a warm-up or something. I don't really know. But nowadays they want the title so they can put on their little Instagram stuff, they can put on their stupid AI, you know, chat GBT stuff. And oh yeah, I gotta wait, I have to have a mechanism to make money. I gotta have a tournament, I gotta have a referee seminar, I have to be able to charge. That's all it is. It's money and title. That's crazy. And young, you're right. I'm not as I'm getting there. I'm not, I know you always talk about what people did and stuff like that. I'm a believer that, you know, I always feel like there's a chance for people just because they weren't the best competitor or they haven't been around long, they can they can still add some value. But these guys have taken it to the other side. It's like in politics right now, you're either all the way right or all the way left. There's no middle. These guys have taken it to the other side because most of them, you're absolutely right. They haven't done anything significant in the sport as a competitor or as a leader. They be a question? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Have you ever been trained by someone who wasn't a real champion, who didn't understand taekwondo at the like deepest levels and development, all those things like that? Me, zero. I would say the same. What about you, Grandmaster? I know.

herb 26:02

I didn't, I wouldn't I wouldn't be in the room with them. I mean, to be clear, if you want to be, let's be clear, you want to be a champion, be trained like a champion, be trained by a champion. And if your coach was trained by a champion and goes and he does the work, I think, I think to agree with Coach Moreno for 10 seconds. Here's the here's the deal. If you don't, you haven't done anything, shut up, sit in the room, learn, come back and teach what you're taught by somebody who's done something. That's just the way sport works.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

So I so I think that for me answers the question. I think we always shy away from that because I say it and I don't like to say it. I don't, I think you have to have some pedigree. I think you had to have to for our sport is a fighting sport. We not hockey, we not lacrosse, we not baseball, we not basketball. We are a fighting sport. So I believe I've never had a bad coach in my life. I've always been in a room with people that have excelled and wanted to keep excelling and made other people excel. Like I've been lucky. So so when I so I I always I say it because I want to be fair, right?

herb 27:02

Like, oh, you know, well, this guy wasn't so good at this, but so you you said something, if you said something important that we talk about all the time, and we taught it in the course. It's called the UDA loop. And so this was a thing from the military. They wanted to figure out how they could stop losing gazillion-dollar planes. So they said, you know what? We have fighter pilots that survive. So we want to figure out so we don't keep losing planes. Yeah, in other words, we train a lot of money to spend on the guys to train them, but we want to figure out how they survive. So we're gonna ask the guys who survived, then we're gonna develop a system which became the OODA loop. And it's longer, you know, watch a podcast later about it. They didn't ask the guys, by the way, they couldn't ask the guys who didn't survive because they were dead. In our sport, unfortunately, they get to survive. So when you want to learn how to do something, you ask the people that win in soccer, they ask the people that win. When you look at the guys who are coaching World Cup teams, they're players or they're coaches of great players. And that's the way it works. You don't ask the guy who didn't go ahead.

Juan 28:02

Or those guys have been around for so long and proven that they can develop athletes and develop teams and win championships.

herb 28:09

Yeah. If I want to sit next to you at a dinner table, I'll sit next to you at a dinner table and I'll listen to whatever your specialty is. But the last thing I'm gonna listen to if I'm at a dinner table at Taekwondo is some guy that took classes in his in his uh rec center um and and and took them for fun and fitness to learn life skills. You know, I'm not you're not the guy's gonna make me.

Juan 28:29

See, actually, that's a very good point, and we don't want to say it because we're trying to be politically correct with all these people that never were in the ring or never read the shirt, read the shirt.

herb 28:38

Yeah, I'm mean. Hey, I'm on me on a so I no, no, I'm gonna say it. I'm I I'm not apologizing. I'm sorry, but not sorry. Sorry, we're not sorry.

Juan 28:47

No, but like, you know, you have the these people that haven't done stuff and they all sudden they get a hot athlete or two and they think that they're they think that they're there. But you know what? I mean, that's this is like in a sense where I'm gonna go a little bit against some of the things that we've said, but I'll I'll I'll give credit where credit's due to a guy like Dae Hoon Lee. At least that guy has been at the top, at least that guy has been in there. So if I sit down and talk with him in training, I go, well, like you just said, Hung, talking to the fighter pilot that lived. How'd you do this? How'd you do that versus these other people that have been on staffs and on teams now that have never been there, never done it. And if they happen to have luckily had a result or two, it's certainly not anything consistent, you know. So I mean, I listened to Justin Gagey. He just fought in the UFC. We talked about it last week, and I was listening to his podcast, and he was talking about he's like, I've been lucky because I always had good teachers, good support from my parents, good for help from my my small community. I've always had great coaches that looked out for me, that would discipline me, that make, you know, kept me on track. And I'm like, to your point, TJ, this is my first instructor was amazing. My second coach was amazing. My Olympic Training Center coach, amazing. You know, it just I can't say a bad thing as far as how they directed me at all. And all of them, as you mentioned, were winners. You know, and that we've gotten to this watered down. This is a great segue. We got in that, we've gotten down to this watered down society of Taekwondo right now. Because in my day, you only went to somebody that had a reputation of winning or producing winners. That's all you did. Now you got all the gimmicks, you got all the AI, you got all the seminars. I mean, you're right. I do seminars for a living. And I and I watch these people do seminars and they write their their uh national team, this world championship uh coach, this uh medalist this. And I'm like, they almost have to because if they didn't, if they just put their name, they'd be like, why would I go to I like to call people's names, X, Y, and Z seminar? What do they have to offer me? You know what I'm saying? There's got to be some other gimmick attached to it. I get to go here or you know, I get a kickback there. It's just weird. You know, I've I've always said what I'm proud of with Peak Performance and myself, nobody's forcing anybody to go to my programs. People go there willingly. I have a lot of repeat people because they like what they've seen, they like what they've experienced, so they come back. I get new people because they go, damn, we heard about this. So I feel good about that. But this this day and age of watered down coaches, watered down programs just is is is kind of weak. I want to get real fast to that one thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

You made a good point. You made a good point. I think just so I'm I want to clarify. I know we talk about champions and winners and you know good coaches and all this stuff. You made the the best point you made was someone that actually guided you and helped you and looked out for you and like actually had your best interest at hand, was able to this day, to this day, they still call me and talk to me to this moment to to tell you that you know, maybe you gotta go left here, or maybe you know, help you through the things of what comes along with being a champion. I know Master Perez, Coach Perez, Brandmaster Dana always talks about, you know, I'll say CJ a lot, right? And we see the things and I know social media and it's crazy and it's good, and and we always try to shy away from talking about him, but like it some of the things bug me a bit.

Athlete Development Over Social Media Hype

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Some of it feels like it's too much because I remember being his age. I remember being at that point of being someone who was popular and and sought after and people wanted to be around, and then I was I was told how to act. I was to my benefit, when I say told, advised how to move forward and keep the sport where it should be and be this role model that we've all set out to be. And I'm not saying it's a good role model or bad role model, I don't care about none of that, but I think I know you all you talk about it a lot, and I I try not to touch on it. But when we start to sit back and we talk about the society, these these guys that are guiding most of our athletes who are at the top have they don't care about them. They are a number for them, they are a way to make money for them. They are a way, if they win, they look better. They're not involved in how these kids develop and how they grow and and they're not gonna be there to pick up the pieces when it's over. We've watched Olympic gold medalists leave and just never see them again. Like we we Olympic gold medalists, something that was special, something that was uh extraordinary. Walk away from our sport, never to be seen again, really, not to be involved at all. You're gonna tell me that's normal, coach. I went to the Olympic Games with you. I don't understand a day at a point where I'm gonna be like, hey, I'm never gonna talk to this guy again. Hey, this guy is bad bad. It's crazy. We went through if that if if they did it the right way and it was as pure as it's supposed to be, when you get a chance to go to the Olympic Games and go through that whole process, those people from from the coaches to the for the rest of their life.

herb 33:59

Did you guys you know who you know who Freddie Adu is? Of course, soccer player. Yeah, Freddie Adu was the most talented, uh notarized right, and pro protege and uh uh savant and and whatever they call them again. I can't remember what they're called, you know, when you're very young uh and and you're very good. And and you know who he is now? Yeah, he's thinking commentates once in a while, but yeah, yeah, and he became nobody, never panned out, and so I don't I don't want to pull out anybody in particular, but uh I can pick a couple individuals who were that same individual. They were hype, they were this, they were that, they were the next best thing, and the thing they didn't have was good coaching. So here's my my final say on that. When you haven't done anything yet of note, shut up, get back in the gym, turn off the cameras, and go do something so you matter, right? Not because everybody that on your TikTok feed says you matter, but the metal table says you matter. That's what matters. If the metal table says you matter, don't worry, you'll have all the time in the world to do your shoes, dance with your shirt off, and grab your crotch like Michael Jackson or whatever. That's up to you until you do something that matters, shut up and get in the gym and win something. And this is why. Because if your focus is on how you're gonna be perceived, you're gonna be perceived as Freddie a dude till you do something. And then even if you do win, you're not gonna have the legacy that great players have. And great players are quiet and they will go win and then they matter, and you don't have to tell anybody that you matter, and you don't have to tick tock to matter because everybody will know your name. Your name is Jung Club Jung, Jung Young Sum, Jimmy Kim. These are guys that went in the gym, did the work, came out and won medals. And when you do that, then you'll matter. TikTok doesn't tell you that you matter, the medal table tells you that matters. So when you when I talk about any one particular individual, my thing is you it's it you're cursing yourself. When you're out there telling people how much you matter, and you're the most creative fighter in the world, and you're the most dynamic, and you're the most exciting, and all the little teenagers from TikTok in in South America. Oh, you are doing you're the best. You don't matter, you haven't won anything. Shut up, go back in the gym and win an Olympic medal. Go win one.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, and we're talking about one of the like go ahead by the way. No, I don't I I think and we're talking about someone that's been a little consistent, and I I know consistency you does it. It's not, it's not I get it. I understand. I understand.

herb 36:31

What's consistent? What's consistent?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

I understand. I understand. Consistent. Oh, we're on the same page, we're on the same page.

herb 36:36

No, no, hold on. Let me let's say say it out loud. Here's here's consistency. Jimmy Kim, consistent. Juan Moreno, consistent. Jung Cook Young, consistent. These guys won and won a string of victories till they decided they were gonna win anymore. Consistency is not showing up at the dance, consistency is not once in a while making a medal table.

Juan 36:59

No, no, but like I I I think he's saying, like, listen, to his credit, CJ's been consistent. He hasn't won the big thing, and I think that's where we're getting to. Like, and it's you're supposed to, if you're that good and you're gonna do all these things and be boasting, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta win the big ones. And until you do, until you do, you just kind of keep your head down and and and be quiet.

herb 37:22

Actually, and he has been consistent in one other thing, losing to Enrique. Well, he's been incredibly consistent at that.

Juan 37:30

I'm gonna say, listen, on any timeline, there's always a chance to to get it, to re to rewrite it, right? I mean, this is the truth. I mean, Hike's had his number for a couple years now, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time. It could change, but I don't think it really means it. I was gonna say the same thing.

Highlight Tapes After Losses

Juan 37:46

It's funny, I wrote down this, I was like, I said, well, I was I wrote to myself, what do you guys think about these highlight films that people put out there in losing situations? I'm not talking even a medal, I'm talking losing situations. Like you didn't even uh first of all I'm notorious for throwing away medals that weren't what they should have been. But these guys are putting these guys are putting highlight tapes of losing efforts at opens. You know what I'm talking about? Like not getting a not a bronze, not a silver, definitely not a gold. And you're gonna put this, you know, here's some here's some just some footage of of me. Maybe scoring a good point, but you lost that round, my guy. You lost that fight.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Because everybody wants to be, but everybody, and I and I say this, and I I used to thought, I used to think I understood. I used to think I had this connectivity to this this just generation of social media and stuff like that. But I'm on board with you. I hate it, I don't get it. I it I struggle with it, but everybody wants to be insta-famous. We don't even care for what at this point, and this goes to society. We don't care for what you can be the worst at something and have one billion followers, right? Just because you you look whatever. And I think our sport has been for sure, taekwondo, because again, that's been the standard that's been set. It's it's very much like that. Like even the training videos, I'll go back. I used to hate putting training videos, and I do it now because I'm I'm I'm a business owner and I'm trying to put videos to kind of keep the things moving and stuff like that. But I'm saying from an athlete standpoint, I thought I was so private in what I did. And I and I talked to you a lot about that, coach right now. Even with the stuff that we do, I always feel like, man, I my guy should have an edge of me. Like what we do should be private, and it used to be like that, and we trained and we exchanged every now and then. But like you said the other day, we showed up to fight each other. We showed up this how about this?

Juan 39:44

Like, I'll again I'll blame leadership, I'll blame home coaches, maybe parental things, and again, you know, it's a different, but I'm gonna say something. When is the last time? Or maybe you can count on one hand, maybe a couple fingers, that you saw anybody from Peak Performance, Miami specifically, do these one of these highlight videos that we talked about. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I have one kid recently that did something, and I was kind of like, I had this conversation, I'm like, young man. And it was so funny. But look at you didn't do that, Paige didn't do that, Prisada didn't do that, you know, Danielle didn't do it, Tony didn't do it. Like, nobody did that. And I know there was I as I get social media is much more popular nowadays, but you know, my point is I don't know, I just think that I I'll I'll go old, old school with you know, Grandmaster here. If you haven't done what you're supposed to do, just say less, my guy. Say less, my girl. Post less, my guy, post less, my girl. Just get back to the gym, put your head down, work your ass off, and go whoop a few people and get on that podium where you're supposed to be. And let the, yeah, all the best professionals say it. They let their actions speak for themselves. They're not gonna talk, nobody talks to the anybody talking to the San Antonio Spurs right now. Nope. It's all about the Knicks. Anybody talk to, you know, you know, who lost it?

herb 41:09

Nixon five, Knicks and five.

Juan 41:11

Damn, I thought Knicks are gonna lose, to be honest with you, but I ain't gonna lie, they are a good ass team. I ain't I ain't gonna lie, I give give credit what credit's gonna be.

herb 41:17

Yeah, but look at the boy, look at the boy who was at the top of his game, whose father was one of the assistant coaches, Brunson, right? What did he do?

Juan 41:24

You know where he's from. He's from you know where he's from. No, Chattown, baby. Come on now. That's but he he didn't talk, he didn't say anything. He just even even after everybody took shots of him.

herb 41:35

Everybody did his job, did his job, did his job, did his job. You know what I did my first highlight tape after the Olympics when I won. That was my first, literally my first highlight tape.

Juan 41:48

Nobody nobody knew your difference in your highlight tapes because it was like left, left, left, left, left. Oh boy, people like that's my he put that shit on rewinding.

herb 41:56

Listen, black black belt black belt mag Black Belt magazine calls me and they had this thing. You guys remember back in the day. They had this thing, they'd have five guys come in and they do their five techniques against different attacks. So you had five attacks, and so they tell me the five attacks, and I go, left leg round kick. Yeah, left leg round kick. Left leg round kick, left leg round kick. But I had to invent some stuff. So if you go back, you'll see some creative invention. Back kick, back hook, kick, yeah.

Juan 42:29

It's out of it's out of order, but did you see that in the again it was posted to said to me in a screenshot, the AAU, like in their in their registration packet, they they put that in the weigh-ins they're giving a two kilo allowance. They forgot the point or the decimal point, like point two. Was that for that?

herb 42:49

Was that for Nia? Nia Abdullah. No, that's an inside joke. True. Hey, I was there. I was there. I was there with us there. If you know, you know. I'm just gonna say she she uh she she couldn't. Well, anyway, I'm not gonna may she uh I don't know what she's doing these days, but I wish her the best.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

But let's let's on our board. I think she's on the board. I saw her name on someone.

herb 43:12

Oh, then I'll all right. Well then I gotta tell I'm gonna tell the story. So she didn't make weight. Is she not on the board? She didn't make weight, she wasn't even close to making weight. She showed up, and then we found out there were two reasons why she didn't make weight. One was eating. I won't tell you the other one.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

She did. I thought I saw her name on the board stuff recently. Someone said she was she was at one point, but anyways. Um what else you got? I think what no, I was like I said, I was I lost track of the other thing we're talking about with the social media and everything.

Juan 43:42

Yeah, I just think that, you know, listen, it it and it's it's the same with the coach. Like we if we're gonna if we're gonna give the athletes a hard time, you know, some of these guys that aren't really producing, we gotta give some of these coaches the same thing. These coaches are are doing these seminars and doing these presentations and And they're just like I I think it's more for them than you said it's not a good idea. But don't don't you don't you find it i ironic?

Speech Policing And Decorum Double Standards

herb 44:09

Don't you find it ironic? And let me tell you what the irony is. Both of these organizations have rules about what you can say, can't say about the organization or people in it. Yet, both of these organizations have no rules about social media and posting and and nonsense and the way they portray the sport of themselves. So when you watch these guys and the way they portray the sport and themselves, they don't carry the sport with the right decorum and dignity that it should be carried with. Yet, God forbid you say something about the sport that actually is factual and critical. You can you can have this guy with his shirt off flying through the air, and he's a role model for young kids, right? So now your kid shows up at your gym with his hat backwards, his pants down around his butt, and his shirt off. What do you say? Well, you know, I saw the USAT video, and oh, by the way, I saw the coach give him the finger. Why can't I give them the finger too?

Juan 45:04

That's what I was gonna say. They have protocol young, but they they choose when and and and and and who to use.

herb 45:09

Who it applies it to.

Juan 45:10

Again, If TJ went right now to the Nationals, they're happening next week. And by the way, no, he went there and he went like this after he won his tournament. And he starts go you know, goes like this with his little cadet and goes like that to the to the to the camera. They would suspend that boy and two seconds flat. Two seconds, let alone at a grand prix.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

But we said this a lot, like we talked about um we talked about them and that damn thing at the Nationals where they letting coaches curse the kids straight up. You know what I mean? But that's what I'm saying. Like you when you say they get to pick and choose, imagine if I went to someone's athlete and was like, oh, you you're you're a you're you're the b-word. You're a you're a bitch. Like, imagine if I said that to an athlete.

Juan 45:59

I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Imagine.

Juan 46:01

I can't imagine. They got mad at people booing a poom say thing. Did we get a post about that after he went off and said that? Think about that. Compare them. They were they were going after parents and looking in the in the crowd of who's booing. And they, I mean, again, I'm not saying that was right, but my point is they did that. They got a guy in the ring on a microphone with the the director of athlete affairs right there, listening to him say, Don't shake his hand. He's a bitch. He's a bitch. Not once, twice. It's okay. So yo, they pick and choose.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Those are people that run the organizations. Those those are the guys. You said the athlete affairs director. Like it it makes no sense. And when we talk about no one's athlete, what is an athlete affairs director?

herb 46:44

Who's that?

SPEAKER_01 46:45

I don't know. Whatever he is. What is that? But I think you made a I think you made a good point.

What An Olympic Coach Title Means

SPEAKER_01 46:49

I think you made a good point when you started talking about like the the AU something and district chairs and everything. It's with these coaches now. I think we talked about a little bit last week, but Olympic coach, a world coach, uh, like a Pan Am Championship coach, a national team coach. Like, what does that mean? What like I I I I've never you are a coach who is successful enough to attend the trip and help a team get to the through the event. But your co you don't your coaching status doesn't change by putting national team coach in front of you.

Juan 47:17

Like the problem is again, just like in the old days, if you're an Olympic coach, oh shit, you're an Olympic coach. It it carried some weight, it it made some things.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

But we now can be like that now. Well, no, we can't be like that because I don't know how much over I'm I'll sorry real quick, I don't know how much over um crossover there was, but we got people becoming Olympic coaches by coaching athletes they have nothing to do with.

Juan 47:40

That's my point. I was gonna say the same thing. I'm like, listen, it's it's there's a difference between coaching at the Olympics and being an Olympic level coach. Does that make sense? Right? Because there is a person that sat in a chair that from another continent that never coached him, never did drills with him, never trained him to get anywhere, and was sitting in the chair. And so, and that's happened to other places too. I'm not, I mean, I got a story.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Yeah, I got a story. So at the Olympic Games in Tokyo when all the COVID stuff was going on, um, one of my friends who's a coach, we know I talk about who, you know, they went through the whole uh protocol and their athlete they were there, the coach actually caught COVID and was wasn't able to compete anymore because he had the quarantine for the whole time. And he sent me a message and goes, you know, do you does does this still does this make me an Olympic coach or not an Olympic coach? Because he actually wasn't gonna go out to the event and coach. And I remember during that conversation, I told him, I was like, look, if you were a part of the preparation, if you went through the process, if you helped this person, guide this person, built this person, was with this person all the way, you going out there, I understand it's like the cherry on top, it's everyone gets to see, but you know who you really are, you know how much influence you had on this athlete. So to me, yes, you're an Olympic coach. You are an Olympic coach who has an Olympic athlete at the event. Unfortunately, you she won't go out there, you won't go out there, but that doesn't change. And I think from that conversation to where we are now, I mean, they're labeling these people Olympic coaches, like like Nikki's an Olympic coach because she went with the guy from was it Niger? What's his name? What's my boy's name? Yeah, like how does like come on Rosik, Rosik, Rozick? Yeah, but come on, how does that does that make you an Olympic coach, really? And I wouldn't be picking on her, and I'm not picking on her, but I wouldn't be pointing it out unless until I gotta go on the website and you see it. Olympic coach, da da da da da da da da da and you're selling, and then you're telling people this is the best squad we can come up with, right?

Juan 49:34

And you're and you're rationalizing because she's an Olympic coach. That's not true. Yeah, I actually somebody sent me the the um the the team job selection process procedures for coaches for the youth Olympic Games, and basically it says you had to go to a games, so only two people that went to the games, and that's Lambdon and her. Like, you know what I'm saying? I mean, of course, I mean Gareth and these guys, but I doubt if they're gonna they're gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

So I'm should I put an application?

Juan 49:59

I mean, but it has to be there's something you have to be in good standing to be. I know, I know, but but but think about that. They listen, there's a couple again, Jonathan Yu, his girl has a very good chance to make the 55. She's on the national team, she's of age. I'm sure there's some other ones that are gonna take a shot at her, but she has a very good chance of making that team, a very good chance. And let's say she does. Once again, this guy, Jonathan Yu, will not be able to go. He is in the best position to coach his athlete at the World Championships, at the Pan Ams, at an open, and certainly at the Youth Olympic Games, way better, way better than anybody else in this country because it's his athlete. It's the same thing at the junior world championships or cadet world championships. I don't care how great you think you are, if the home coach is meets the certain requirements, let him sit in the chair. Let them get that, let them get that uh that development at that time. You know, okay, we're going to the Olympic Games, you have an Olympic program director, you have Olympic coach, even that nowadays, you don't have eight athletes going, you have two. Like, you know what I'm saying? So you should be considerate. I I would I went to the Olympic Games with Mexico because I coached that athlete all the way through at the Olympic trials and to get her to the Olympic Games, and they said, you know what? You're best suited to go. United States should do that and should think about that, but they won't because it breaks down all of their chances of control. Control. You took the word from me.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

But and they're still doing the same thing, even at this last Grand Prix. Now,

Funding, The Academy, And Pay To Play

SPEAKER_01 51:38

think about this. We have people qualified for the Grand Prix, right? So these people, everyone went to these tournaments, these challenges, all these events throughout the year before to get qualified for these grand prix. I would say, by just standard of what this means. Not, I know we talk about how taekwondo is fluctuated up and down, but if you're qualified for a Grand B Grand Prix, you're considered one of the best in the world at that point, correct? It's it's I can say it, whatever. Yeah. We're still going to grand prix and not funding our own athletes from this country. Like they didn't pay for all of our athletes to go to the grand prix, only their athletes. Everybody else, you they get their own way.

Juan 52:12

They wanted to be coached by them, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think a little bit of mix. Yeah, I think there was a little bit, but I'm not sure. All I know is there are athletes that are considered the top in our not just in our country, but in the world that aren't being funded. And we're talking about bringing in new coaches and all these, how great this is. They can't even get this shit right. Like they've been doing this since back when I was at WCAP with David Kim, with all these different people. We're qualifying. This is the best 58 in the country, the best 54 in the country. We're qualified for the grand priest. Calfani Harris, we're qualified for the Grand Priest. And there's no funding for those guys. So when we when we when you talk about, like, I know it's crazy. It's crazy. So when we start talking about like we're labeling people Olympic coaches and this and this and this, they're buying these spots the same way now, and they need that control to keep it that way while they push everyone else to the side. You're gonna tell me someone that's at that level doesn't deserve to be funded by the country? I tell you what, I think. And these people think that they're gonna they're ever gonna fund our juniors and our cadets, they're not even fighting the top seniors.

Juan 53:12

Prior, they didn't want to coach anyone that wasn't in their room. Now they want to, now they're controlling everything. It's just this circle of things that they do. At the beginning, they were like, nope, they they didn't coach anybody. I mean, even the world championships. The the national team coach, head coach, coached, I think, four people. And you know, some brand new coach coaches eight athletes. They don't want anything to do with it, but now all of a sudden they're starting to kind of clamp down and take control because they're just cutting everybody out, get out of the way, let our people go. Yeah, one person that's ahead of cadets, one of juniors, one of para and development. One person. Meanwhile, that one person has done none of that stuff ever.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Here, try it out. Go do something. I don't think that's normal. So when you go back and ask that question about can you do a job or or or help uh someone succeed or ordinary succeed and you've never done those things, I think I think you need some insight. This is what's the strong what's the gotta know.

herb 54:12

What's the most important thing as an athlete before you get in the ring? What is the most important thing that you have to have? You have to have confidence, confidence, confidence and belief. So if I look out and the guy that's sitting in my chair isn't adding to that, he's diminishing. That's not helping me. That's that's never helping me. I I want to look out, and when I need when I need advice, and I've been in those chairs, by the way. I look back at the coach, and the coach is going, I don't know. What do you think? I'm like, I was kind of looking at kick and punch. I I figured that part out when and how.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

You got yeah, but like these kids are being lied to, so maybe they're being brainwashed. You got people saying that Chase Graham is one of the best coaches in our country. We want to talk about someone that hasn't done anything, and I and I'm not I don't want to I don't want to go too hard, but like it's I I I'm sick of seeing it. Like these are adults telling kids and people that these are the best coaches, they're calling them right an Olympic coach or national team coach next to kids. Legends. So the legends, legends, legends in their own minds. But here here's yeah, I know, but like but here's where it all comes from.

herb 55:17

Here's where it comes from. If there were a point where there was no one left in this country, there was a plane crash. We had got all the best coaches and athletes in the world on a plane, and we were sending them on a humanitarian mission to Korea to help them fix taekwondo, and the plane crashed, and there was nobody better, then go out to your second, third, fourth, fifth, non-tier people. If the second and third and fourth tier people went out and got educations that were sports specific, got educated on how to teach how to coach and be better and understood the strategy, or went and trained in something, the equivalent of the soccer academy in France that Mbappe was a product of. Okay, put them in the chair. But when you can't, when you disenfranchise, disallow the people in the country who have actually done something, matter. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's where the craziness comes. When you have to sit there and puff up and self-promote and virtue signal to get these clowns in chairs so that people can feel good about it. And and not to denigrate the current group of athletes, they don't know any better. So if you went to the average, if I went to a junior nationals this this time around and they announced Herb Perez was there, the juniors would be like Herb who? And they should because I haven't been around in a minute or two. But in that same token, if you do the puffery and you say Nikki and they go, ooh, that's Nikki, and she was the the coach of Botswana. You know, I mean, let's let's keep it real for a second. Nikki who? Steve Who? And I'll go firm enough to I'll go further. I'll say Jay Who. I mean, let's let's be clear. These aren't the top people in our sport. And you know where this wouldn't happen? Korea. You know where it's probably not happening? Spain. You know where it's definitely not happening? Iran. You know where it's definitely not happening? Any country that cares about performance, I'm pretty sure. Think about it and you'll you'll see I'm right. Look at the coaches. Coaches sitting in a chair matter. When when our coach sits in a chair, they go like this.

Juan 57:23

Who's that? Yeah, T, you made a good point. Like he's like, we we now I'm gonna go back and and kind of bag. Oh my gosh, they just scored a goal. Columbia finally scored in the seven fourth minute one zero. Wow, that was crazy. Um, you you you mentioned a little bit, like, you know, we when we we bring these coaches over here, and like um especially this last one, you know, he's the best in the world and blah blah blah blah blah. And I and I think to myself, if that guy you said a teacher, I'm stealing your line, if he was the greatest, like why would his own country let him out? Why wouldn't they bring him in? But yeah, I mean I mean, I know there's hierarchy in Korea, there's stuff like that, but he comes from an esteemed university. His his his professor is the president of the KTA from Jongen University. Dr. Yan Jinbang is the president, he's from Jung'in, Dehun Li is from Young'in. So he has everything lined up for him. If he's so great, if he has so much to offer, why wouldn't the motherland say, dude, get him by all means necessary?

herb 58:36

Because Yang Jinban doesn't matter in Korea. And and Yang Jinbar is part of the human centipede. But he's he's part of I understand what you're saying, but Yang Jinban, just to be clear, he's in the human centipede of Yang Jinban, Jay Warwick, and if you don't understand that reference, watch the movie. And uh and the clowns from USA Taekwondo. They have the little sycophanti, you know, mouth to butt thing going on. And this is why he pooped out this guy to come here. Because you're right, if he mattered, he'd still be there.

Juan 59:08

But yeah, that's that's my point. I don't want to delude it and stuff like that with all that. What I'm saying is everything is lined up for him to stay in that country and produce a pro team, whatever. Even if he went to a pro team, he comes to that university, he can be handpicking people if he's so famous and he's so good at what he does. Wouldn't everybody want to come with him? It just doesn't make sense. Like, you know, I don't want to, I don't know the guy's personality as far as does he want to come and get a green card like you've you've kind of mentioned. I don't think you're far off, but to your point, TJ, if it is so great and everything's lined up for you in that system, why leave?

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Because this is the best, because you know, he wanted to come join the the world-class winning program of America because that's what they said. I'm just repeating it, I'm not even making fun at this point. He is going to join one of the best coaching squads in the world. The world is the craziest thing you can do.

Juan 1:00:03

Such a mockery. You know, it's funny because I I was like, You understand why he left Korea.

herb 1:00:10

Because he didn't pay his dues, he hasn't coached in Korea, he's never coached. He's coached a little bit. Yeah, but for him to coach at the level he needs to coach there, he's gonna have to put in his time. He don't have to put in his time here.

Juan 1:00:22

Yeah, he can just come straight. Well, listen, I it's it's funny because like we know we talked about you you're right, like, oh my gosh, another goal.

SPEAKER_11 1:00:31

Another goal. Yep.

Juan 1:00:38

Oh, do they call offsides? Wow. But but you know, it's funny because like you know, I was thinking about a famous coach who's you know who popped on the scene who wasn't a great athlete dragon from from um from Serbia. You know, he popped on the scene and you know before 2012. But 2012 he had a female win a gold medal at the Olympics. But since that time, he pr he's produced Olympic medal after Olympic medal and a world champion after world champion. He's built this program, the seminar circuit that's second to none. It's just it's very impressive. But it's it's the Mike Cheshesky, it's the you know, Phil Jackson. They weren't necessarily the best at their sport, but they were able to grow something and they became something unique. Where a lot of these people, now you're seeing former athletes are becoming good coaches, former athletes are becoming uh presidents in their in their countries, like in Iran, like in Turkey. And it's it's time for for this country to have that, to have former athletes become the presidents and CEOs and become the real directors, and not just former athletes, successful ones. When you look at Iran, you look at Turkey, you look at Hadi, you look at Bari, these guys are the cream of crop.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

But when you compare stat, like compare that to the opposite side, it's nuts, right?

Juan 1:01:50

And you have a lot of countries that have gone other way with officials, referees, and stuff like that. You look at where they've gotten to, they haven't gotten there. The athletes, fighters, have. You look at what Rasendo has done when he's gone into places, you know. You look at, you just look at all these countries that are putting these former champions in there and and letting them do their work. They're doing some really good things. There's a goal, another goal and another offsides. Same guy. That's crazy. But it's just I don't know. I I was thinking about it. I was gonna ask you this. What do you guys think? I mean, TJ, you're a little bit more relevant, but Xiang, you you were around in the era. Think about coaches that uh developed a good athlete or two or a team. What do you think about the coaching stamina? Like, who's able to reproduce? Like I said, with this gentleman dragon, like again, pat myself on the back. I've done this for 25 years since you know, for a long time, and have always been able to kind of keep keep going. Like I've seen a lot of these hot coaches that get an athlete nowadays, TJ, what to do? Hot coaches get someone to the academy, and then they're one, their one goes and they're gone. They're just crickets. I've I don't feel bad for them because they allow themselves to get suckered like that, but they they were kissing the ring, they were talking of all these good things. Their athlete goes there, never to be seen again. And that coach, generally speaking, never to be seen or heard from again. And that's just in recent times. But you know, what do you think about the how difficult it is for athlete coaches to be able to recreate that cycle over and over and over?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

So to do it once, you're so to do so to do it once, you might have got lucky. You had a specimen walk into the gym, you had someone who was a little bit special, had something different about them walk into your gym, and you were able to capitalize on a moment. But to do it for 25 years, whatever amount of years, that means you know what you're doing. That means the recipe is there, that means you know how to change and push and pull and develop and get the best out of multiple people. That's because that's just expertise. A lot of these guys, again, I say it a lot. I'm like, man, when am I gonna get the tall kid that walks into the room or the the the athlete that you know that loves this sport for whatever reason? But that's what happens in some of these places. Because you you you don't have that many people that have been around for that long and they can go, I worked with this person, trained this person, helped this person, developed this person. Like it doesn't exist anymore. And I I think when I grew up, we had a I had a I was around a lot of very big, uh, strong group of coaches. I think we had strong coaching. When they say coaching's better, now it's bullshit. It's absolute bullshit. I I was around a lot of I think strong coaches who had strong programs, who had good fighters, but it was you could tell that they did it for real. You could tell that they kind of had their recipe and their way of making not just this person, but also this person good. I think now we've into that world of again, I go all the back down to the value. We're teaching kids how to flip, flop, and twist and duckwalk down the floor before we teach them how to stand normal and round kick. And that's because these coaches saw it on TikTok, saw it on Instagram, and go, this is gonna be the best thing for my kid today. Let me go do this.

Coaching Longevity And Real Program Building

Juan 1:05:02

It's funny because one of the original programs that was built, they told me specifically built to compete with Peak was Progression. Progression. Which one was who was that? That was Scott Fuji. Scott Fuji, and he coached Tim Thackeray, and all those. No, but listen, Scott Fuji, Jason Foos, and uh uh guy from Hawaii. I forgot his name. Um Brian. Those those those three. And it's funny because when you look at the success of those three coaches, listen, Scott and I we we fell off, but Scott was always I was always cool with Scott. I I like Scott from when he wasn't very good and he came and lived, lived in my dorm room, you know, with Young Lee and stuff like that. And he had a couple good years. And I was I always friendly with him. I didn't have a problem with him. Gene Lopez had a huge problem with him. They hated each other. And I used to try to keep those guys apart and stuff like that. And and to be honest with you, when we were Making the coaching staff. Gene didn't want him on so bad. And I went to bat for Jason Poos. I said, listen, they have people on the team. Give that group a voice. Give that group a voice. And they, you know, we put Jason on there. I know. Um I I did that. I did that on the goodness of my. I did that for Sherman Sphinx because Patrice couldn't coach. I lit think about this. I literally put Jason and Sherman on the U.S. coaching staff because they were representatives of other groups. Not because they were good, not because they they they were special, but because the people they were under were good and special, but couldn't get on there for whatever reason. Coach remarked, because he's working with other countries, you know, uh coach.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

He was still dealing with his visa stuff and everything, traveling and everything for a long time with that.

Juan 1:06:54

Scott Fuji, because you know, Gene didn't like him, and I was just trying to find the middle ground. But my point is Scott at least was a fighter and he got the best results. Those other two, not so much, and they never, they none of them have the players that that that uh that Scott had. You know, there was a nice one here from Oklahoma that uh, you know, I'm not gonna go people's names that I like, you know who I like. And there was a couple nice ones from Hawaii that that I like, you know, but I'm just talking about as you know, getting the most out of the athletes, you know, and that's bringing up some old stuff. And and and I actually happen to like you know the guy from Hawaii for a while, you know. Um, I don't like how he finished his stuff, but that doesn't matter. But my point is again, it's good athletes producing good programs. TJ, to your your point, and back in those days, the coaches had to be good. They had to be good or they didn't produce good people. Nowadays it's the opposite. There's some coaches that aren't good, they're not good. They have a couple good people. I mean, there's a lot of them, you know, and not then and and then they go and say, TJ, should we play the game? They ask you, should I play the game? And then they get their one to the academy at an audition, and they will never see them again.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

I know you said the audition and just triggered me all over again. I just I just like you have an organization who is the national governing body and you're supposed to you know develop taekwondo in our country. And the same organization also has this thing called the Academy, which there which is a fully funded program where they pay for the athletes they want. Not the best athletes, not not whoever they want, and whoever fits their mold, and whoever you know decides to go up there and follow that path, they pay for them fully to travel around the world and collect as many points as possible to qualify for tournaments that other people that could potentially be better suited for, coaches that can be better suited for to get their athletes there and to be further along in development can't afford to do, but they run both and technically didn't the 49 person just do that?

Juan 1:09:05

The 49 athletes they always do that though, yeah. They always do that. They technically wasn't on the national team. Wildcard to the Pan Am and they paid for them to go and travel and stuff because they're in that room. To your point, let's let's give a perfect example of that. And we I I like the person, but it doesn't matter what it doesn't matter if I like them or not, right? That's where we have to be honest with people. Listen, you weren't on the national team by your own choosing. You didn't go to team trials, you had a wild card, you went to the pan ham, that's it. Technically, you're not on the national team, but you're in that room. That room sent you, they didn't send a national team athlete to any opens, right? Is that what that's this is your point? And so they paid for them to go get those points to get into a grand pri.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

This is where we're at. That's where we've been at. And like I said, I just repeated. I just told you that at the last grand prix they didn't pay for the athletes to travel there. I think one got to stay with somebody in a hotel room, like to share a room. The other guy had to pay his flight hotel and everything. They paid for registration. Like, what are we i it it's it's it's a shame, it's a shamble, and like I said, it's hard for me to it's it's the coaches. I I don't think this this goes this, I don't think this could have been this bad if these coaches were real coaches. If these coaches stood up for some the ones that are closest that are dealing with this, the ones that are justifying online, saying, Oh, just so I'm clear, just so we're clear, the ones making excuses for whether it's AAU or USAT for their lack of development, their lack of control of a situation, their lack of, I don't know what it is, give a fuck about this country and the development of the sport, it's you guys' fault because you keep putting your athletes in positions to go up there and do things because you know, oh, it's gonna look good on me, or I'm gonna show that I'm a part, or I'm gonna rub elbows with this guy. Like, you don't even care about these athletes. It's about you because if you did, if they're I again, I don't have a kid on the junior team right now. I know I coached Danny and help him get on the junior team right now, but if I was one of the coaches with junior team athletes or cadet athletes, and they weren't being funded, they would literally have to cancel me, really. They'd have to just stop because I'm not gonna stop. You're not gonna tell me this kid doesn't deserve to be funded. I, as a coach, talked his parents into coming to training every day to give this kid a good shot. Go to this competition, qualify for the division, go to nationals, go to team trials, have your best day, win, get on the national team. And I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, uh, you gotta pay $1,500 to go to Uzbekistan now. You know, get the checkbook out. You're you're gonna pay more money to because you're successful.

Juan 1:11:37

They said, TJ, you can come on the trip, but you can't coach.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

Nah, no, not me, my boy. I I I ain't passing judgment, but not this guy. It's not like no, not on a team like that. Absolutely not. Not not with my own money. We're not with my own money.

Wrap Up And Next Week Plans

herb 1:11:53

We're rolling up on an hour and ten. We got anything for the better of the order, we're gonna try to keep it at an hour. We got more we need to talk about.

Juan 1:12:01

Uh listen, I I know I was going on about the you know, the AU and stuff like that with all the shenanigans that they're they're they're playing and they're pulling and stuff like that. And you know, I probably should have organized it a little bit better, but let's see, you know, it's obviously the numbers are down, and let's see how.

herb 1:12:17

They're doing they're doing Puerto Rican math, they're doing hood math. You know, two plus two is twelve. So the the reality is that the numbers are down, they're they're conflating the numbers, they're conflating the dollars coming in, and they're doing two plus two is twelve, and they don't have unique members, and those unique members, even the ones they have, aren't going to the same amount of numbers. When you look at six thousand people and you have more than twelve thousand instances of stuff going on, then you're looking at you know two or three thousand and you're getting four thousand, and the story and the economics speak for themselves. When you care more about money than people, that's what you end up with.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

Yep.

herb 1:12:52

Coach, anything else before we go and go? All right.

Juan 1:12:56

Well, this is next week. Next next week, let's do it. Uh I'm gonna be in uh in your your hometown. What? TJ, let's do uh let's do a podcast together from there. Yeah, North Carolina? I'm being you're gonna be in the basement? I'll be in Charlotte. No, I'll be downtown, homie. Come on now.

herb 1:13:13

All right, boys. We are out later. Peace. All right, I'll get it up later.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

We should definitely do a live one though. Like I told you, my parents were crazy.

Satirical Taekwondo Dream Reprise

SPEAKER_04 1:13:39

Debería haber sido, habría sido, a lo mejor no se les acepta, solo al resto. No te necesitamos si alguna vez te importaste, si sabemos tu nombre, este no es tu juego, te orillas demasiado restar, de nuestro feed en medios de TikTok, de los menos calificados que empezamos.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:09

El campeón que no destruimos, pero pues te trataremos como si necesitáramos un descanto.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:17

Cuando te sueño de taekwondo de Quiero mi parte de los sueños de taekwondo de eteuga patía y me lo pida, sueño de taekwondo de etecu. Ya batía y me lo pida, sueño de taekwondo te ete, me acata temprano y pubicaré. Un momento destacado de nuestra mejor esperanza cuando le patean el paso a las galas en taekwondo de.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:43

El sueño de taekwondo de u. El campeón que nos destruimos, pero igual te trataremos como si necesitáramos un descanso.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:54

En taekwondo de EU, queremos al puro ser. Debería haber sido, habría sido, a lo mejor no se les acepta. Solo el resto. No te necesitamos si alguna vez te importaste. Si sabemos tu nombre, este no es tu juego. Y si brillas demasiado restarás. De nuestro fin de medios de TikTok o de los menos calificados que empleamos.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:29

El campeón que nos destruimos, pero igual te trataremos como si necesitáramos un descanso. Cuando es el sueño de taekwondo dé.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:40

Apatía y mediocridad, dueño de taekwondo de Mi apatía y mediocridad, dueño de taekwondo dé. Quiero irme a casa temprano y ubicaré el momento destacado de nuestra mejor esperanza. Cuando le patean el casco a las gradas de Taekwondo D. El sueño de Taekwondo Débora Quiero mi parte del sueño de Taekwondo Débier del sueño de taekwondo de EO.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:22

Apatía y me lo pida.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:24

Sueño de taekwondo de Eo.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:26

Mi apatía y me lo pida.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:28

Sueño de taekwondo de Quiero irme a casa temprano y publicar el momento destacado de nuestra mejor esperanza. Cuando le patean el casco a las gradas en Taekwondo de Eu.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:41

El sueño de taekwondo de Eu.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:43

El sueño de taekwondo deu.