Masters Alliance Uncut
Honest Conversations with Masters of their craft about life and Olympic Sport Issues
Masters Alliance Uncut
Standards Over Hype
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Paper titles are cheap, but a real reputation costs years. We start with satire aimed at belt factories, fake “governing bodies,” and laminated legitimacy, then get uncomfortably honest about the ways modern taekwondo rewards noise over proof. From there, we reset with life stuff: a 40th birthday, a few laughs, and a heavy moment reflecting on a first instructor who shaped a career through calm leadership and character.
Then we go straight into the sport. We talk Central American Games and the Korean Open, and why it’s becoming more common to see United States athletes compete for other countries at cadet and junior levels. We unpack the reasons we keep hearing: confusion about the process, uneven support, parents chasing early World Championship experiences, and a pathway that can look clearer somewhere else. We also ask the harder question: what does that do to the U.S. development pipeline long term?
From there we tackle the competition reality everyone argues about: the electronic hogu scoring system, inconsistent sensors, and how “world class” matches can turn into six minutes of nothing or into wild swings that don’t match what you’re seeing. We connect it back to leadership and standards, including how selection, funding, and protected lanes can reduce the pressure that used to force growth.
If you care about Olympic taekwondo, coaching culture, and building athletes the right way, this one is for you. Subscribe, share this with a coach or parent, and leave a review with your take: what should be earned again, and what needs to change first?
Satire On Fake Credentials
SPEAKER_05Oh no, the green, the brown. Lang it on. Printer hot. Crank the laminator. We handin' out kings tonight. Oh no.
SPEAKER_04Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.
SPEAKER_05Here come the paperwork. Green in the pocket and the brown all over the work. Oh no.
unknownOh no.
SPEAKER_05Oh no.
SPEAKER_04Oh no.
SPEAKER_05Oh no.
SPEAKER_04Oh no.
SPEAKER_05Look, coop sign the scroll. The mailbox, a logo, and the man with zero control. The green is what he's selling. The green is all he knows. And the lineage, that's brown, and it's fixed where it goes. Oh no, no. Ain't the governing body, it's a souvenir act with a crest. Oh no, no. You ain't built a thing, homie. You just rented it. That's the stress. Nine stripes on the belt. Eight of them came in a sleeve. Certificate, still curl, crushed the cheek, ink bleed, brown belt, brown story, brown stores, brown bluff. Smell like old socks and dust. Got his dad off a website, click paint now done. Five of school as an LLC and called himself one. Never made a bracket, never sat through a burn. But the wall in his lobby look like it's trying too hard. Learn. Who stabbed that? What federation? What wrong? It's international, cool. A country name it's Zoom. Goes way too low. Cause the deeper daddy folds, the less you see nobody ever showed him what he sold.
SPEAKER_04Oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no.
SPEAKER_05Here come the paperwork. Green in the pocket, then the brown, all over the work. Oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no. Look, sign a scroll, a mailbox, a logo. And the man with zero control. Bought a ticket to the games, nosebleeds, third row. Came home singing coach, like he carried the whole show. Oh no, it's the fire. Oh no, it's the brag. Develop champions, the name one don't drag, can't disclose. Oh no, yeah, that's cute, that's flick. Funny how the corner is empty when the cameras click. Photo with the medalist, dropped himself half in, talks big in the airport, like he's been where they win. Where's the jacket at rush? Where's the jacket at night? Where's it like a bat when he never saw the fight? Somebody in the crowd said who and moved on. And that right there, bro, is the host. Hotel ballroom, folding table, stale, coffee bad. Like 250 got the door, and you leave with the title tonight. Green at the entrance, green at the exit, green at the air. Only thing certified in that room is the hustling air. Six hours, one weekend to prevent. Nice jokes. On the cheeks, snap the pick, take the laminated smoke. Ran a tournament with 11 kids, so 40 goals, undefeated, national champion, printed right on the fold. Built the little circuit so his students can't lose. Crowned himself the president and picked the news. New stash, every season, new fee, every fall. Built the staircase to nowhere and called that protocol. But here's the part that ain't funny. So I'm gonna slow it down. Somebody's kid is in that room. Somebody's daughter drove two hours. Somebody's parent worked the double for that tuition. So a man who never had the answer for a bracket can handle a lesson and quicken and call it discipline. That's the death, not the green, the years. Oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no. Real ones got receipts a roster, a bracket, the date and the name you can read. Ask him for the draw, ask him for the flow. Ask him for one athlete that eat the birth of them before. Papers just paper to the mats, where it lands. And the green don't buy a decade. So keep your hands off my hands. Train to teach, learn to earn it. That's the only way you get in. Everybody else just bought a jacket. Everybody else, pretend. Take the lanyard off. Oh no, oh no. Now who are you? All names, federations, and acronyms herein are invented. Any resemblance to persons living credential or self-credential is the nature of satire. Oh no.
World Cup Hangover And Hellos
herbThis is the warehouse 15. We are back from all things world cup related. And I'm not talking about taekwondo, I'm talking about the World Cup. I'm talking about the world's largest sport. We're in recovery mode. We're in depression mode. We're in. I wish I had more mode. I actually had to watch the MLS versus La Liga All-Stars today and watch Sun take everybody to school. But then La Liga, as they usually do, were pressing, pressing, pressing, and they got it to four to three. But anyway, enough of that. How are we doing today, gentlemen? I'm good. I'm good.
SPEAKER_03Chilling just um actually got it.
SPEAKER_00You okay, DJ? You're looking like you got that triple A card or whatever they do, and then you get me hit that big four O R V four. Oh happy birthday.
herbDid you get your card, Mr. Happy Birthday? No, I didn't get no card yet. I'm waiting for it in the mail, though. I keep I keep sending mine back. I keep sending mine back. They keep sending it to me, and I refuse to look at it. But uh congratulations, you have crossed a boundary. You have you have crossed the beauty of life. So happiness, happiness, and joy for you, my friend.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's cool. I'm I'm having a good time. Uh, I took a couple days off. Actually, I was about to tell you I got to go watch some serious, high-level, competitive cornhole, yes, a couple last couple days.
herbI think I told you that off camera. I said those words should not escape a man's mouth. There is no man in the world that says the word corn and hole next to each other. You could say I had some cornbread and there was a hole in the wall. You can say a lot of things, you can say all of that, but you cannot say the word. I won't even say just this building was space.
SPEAKER_03Huge, huge building. I think there had to be like 150 plus uh cornhole board set up. But like, I mean, these people are insane. Like everybody's playing everywhere.
herbLike more kernels or more teeth. That's what I want to know. More kernels of corn or more teeth.
SPEAKER_00But TJ, what it was it like uh like a dome or something like that, or what did they have it?
SPEAKER_03It's the it's it's the ACL headquarters. So it's like a big wide open gym, basically, and they just split it up and they had a bunch of boards on one side, a bunch on the other side. But I mean like so many cornhole boards. It's is there in their facility? Yes, it's like I guess is that's where their headquarters are run out of. They had um there's a restaurant in the front, and the other side had um another cornhole area that was like set up with like bleacher seating inside, uh, filming stations. It was it was crazy. It was crazy. Vendors in the middle selling all the cornhole bags and hats where I got my cool hat from. But it was it was crazy, and they were there all day long playing cornhole, talking about cornhole, buying stuff. It was they were yeah, I bet they were talking about it.
herbYeah, I mean, there you go. You keep getting deeper and deeper. It's good to put one foot in your mouth, but now you got both. But that's okay. I I respect your ability and I don't want to get canceled, so you just do you, brother. You do you, so you cornhole it up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was fun.
herbIt
Loss, Mentors, And Perspective
herbwas definitely fun.
SPEAKER_03What's up with you, coach?
SPEAKER_00I'm chilling, man. I uh I had a uh a good weekend and a little sad weekend for me. My first uh my first instructor passed away. I always tell people that I had I've had three like major, you know, uh people in my life as a for as it relates to the martial arts, my first instructor, my first coach, and then my Olympic training center coach, and each one of them played a a really important uh part in my development. And I always give credit to all three. And I know it's like some people, actually, it's funny because at nationals we were talking about somebody that I don't know, for whatever reason, is just denying certain people's uh contributions to their success. But yeah, for me, I've always said anytime I've done the interview, anytime I've people have asked me about my my first instructor, because there's some misconceptions about it. Some people, for example, you know, one um grandmaster from Wisconsin, uh uh Grabmaster Perez, that, you know, because of his lineage, people thought I was his student. I had nothing to do with him ever. His student was my coach, but I had nothing to do with him. But anyway, my first instructor was a gentleman by the name of Jerry Cook, Gerald Cook. And um, you know, I walked into his school and you know, he changed my life. You know, that man literally changed my life. I wouldn't be talking to you guys, I wouldn't be sitting in this house, I wouldn't have these kids. Not my whole life would have been different. I don't know if it had been better or worse. I I don't know, but I know it would be different. So I have a tremendous amount of respect and and love and admiration for him. And he got sick, you know, about two months ago, and I was lucky to fly in to see him just for a day. And, you know, we didn't know how long he would, you know, hang on. And he hung on for about another six weeks. And this weekend was the celebration of life. So I was uh super happy that my my weekend was open and I got a chance to go and see his family and some old friends and left you know, people from the school back in the early 80s, late 70s. And yeah, I got a chance to speak a little bit on it, you know, and and and talk about some some memories. So it was uh it was a little tough, but at the same time, I I choose to to see the good and and and remember the happy times as well. So that was for me to be uh there'd be doubter today, but that was uh it was actually a good thing. I I really enjoyed it. I just it made me appreciate everything that that uh that I have and that I am because it was because of him. So yeah.
herbYou gotta appreciate and remember where you came from and honor those who came before you. You know, as we know, we're we're all getting closer to the place where, you know, I went to a wedding for one of my students who was just a kid, served on the city council with his dad. You know, I brought his dad into the fold and he became a member with me, and we were just talking about and you know, so those are the joyous moments to I got to share with him, you know, the beginnings, and you and you unfortunately or fortunately did get to share the ends. And so that's there's nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's gonna be the crazy story. I was in Chicago and on on Saturday and we went to a bunch of these festivals and stuff like that. The city had a whole bunch of festivals, so it was really cool for me to just kind of get on the streets. And uh on Sunday, Sunday was a celebration of life, my buddy's girlfriend was getting off the train. You ready for this? She's getting off the train and and at one stop. As she's getting off the train, another train's coming. She watches this girl, 20-year-old girl, get smacked by the other train, dragged like right in front of her, like and die. Like crazy. 20-year-old girl, headphones on, going to a concert, not paying attention. I'm not even quite sure. I I didn't really want to ask the lady exactly, like, what you know, because she was on the on the you know, the the the platform. So I'm not quite sure how she got hit, but anyway, I guess he dragged her. I'm like, man, just like that. Life is like that. So it was a wild weekend for me when I think about those kind of things. So yeah, crazy, crazy, crazy. But I
Americans Competing For Other Countries
SPEAKER_00don't know. Anyway, I I don't know about you guys, but uh, you know, TJ, there was uh I don't think we talked maybe we talked a little bit about the Korean Open last time. I know we we to we took the break last week, and and then uh also they had the Central American games, which is never been important to me, you know, but now that I work for you know other countries and stuff like that, there's these Central American games and South American games and Bolivarian games. They're very important to these these countries. And um one thing that struck me kind of uh it struck me a little bit was how many, I'm gonna say this, I'm trying to be respectful of the people, but how many American people are when I say American, I mean United States athletes are fighting for other countries. And I think if I counted there's like seven of them. I thought about that, like those are seven people that could be in the pipeline in the United States. And two won gold medals on the female side, one won a bronze medal, and I was just like, man, these are talented athletes right there. I mean, those ones that I'm mentioning, they're they're good. You know, I'll I'll say the name, JC from Costa Rica. She's good, man. She's tough, 46, and she won. And Jessica Lee, 62, tall, strong, aggressive soccer player like your son. She's you know, they're gonna play Division I soccer as well. Like, she won. Like, you know, and you have Ava, who's got a silver medal at the paint in games before, lost to Cuba in the semis and won a bronze medal. That's like that's pretty wild when you think about those three girls. Imagine they're in the American pipeline and an American national team. That's like a huge upgrade, probably at those specific weights. You know, no disrespect to anyone that's fighting right now for the team USA, but those girls are good. Those girls are proving it. So I just thought it would be.
SPEAKER_03It's happening earlier and earlier. Yes. You know, that transition is happening earlier. People are just choosing to say we'll just fight for another country and I guess work our way up to being ready for the events that they're already invited to. You know what I mean? In some cases, like from the kid that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00What do you think? What do you think? Why are people leaving earlier? Like, listen, I mean, I was thinking about this, and TJ, me and you were talking about it this morning. I mean, I think back in my day, when I was competing, I don't remember anybody like going to another country. But then I know when I started coaching, I know there was a couple people that that left. And for the reasons that they left, I'm not quite sure. But now at this cadet level, junior level and early entry, senior level leaving. Like it's interesting to me. Do you or do you what what do you think? What do you what do you think about it?
SPEAKER_03I I'm always shocked that it happens at a cadet or junior level, or we're, you know, the national team for this country at a junior level. I just it it's weird that we're not in our system and they're not willing to be in our system or choosing it. Is it easier? Or is it is it um, I don't know, a clearer pathway, like okay, I do this, I get to go here, this, and this. I don't know if there's a confusion amongst all of it, but it's it's it's it gets tough to watch it at the lower level of the sport. I know, like you were saying, when we were when I was growing up, when I was fighting, uh, you had people do it towards the end of their career sometimes where they had to take you know one more shot to change for the country to get another shot at the Olympic Games or the qualifyers, something, whatever the case may be. But they were high-level and like proven people within the system. That's when you saw it, maybe, you know, for the most part. Um, so seeing it happen at the junior level is just I it's weird. I don't know. I don't know. I at best it's weird. I mean that they should be in our system, they should be a part of our system, they should be growing in in our system. But I I think, like you said, other people are shooting easy.
SPEAKER_00I think there's probably a couple, there's probably many reasons, and you know, everyone has their own. But I I would say that number one, let's make no mistake about it. I think that people feel disenfranchised and confused of what the process is and the lack of of support. So they're kind of like, I might as well go somewhere else. Instead of dealing with all this stuff, I might as well go somewhere else. Um like I said, the lack of understanding what the organization has to offer them. I'm talking about this organization here in America. Um, I also will blame parents. I also blame parents that they want their kids so bad to go to the world championships and and not not respect the process. And even if you do everything and you fall short, it's still the right thing to do. The less the easier isn't always better. Let's not make any mistake. Sometimes and a majority of the time, it's easier to shift and go somewhere else than to stay here and take the chance of losing. I had somebody recently that was talking about fighting for another country, and I'm not lying, they're they're they're a state level athlete. They're they're just they're nice, nice people, but their athletes are state-level people. They're just getting into it. They just kind of got into formalized training. They came from another system, just got into formalized training. And the thought process of the family to say, you know, we can get citizenship over here and and because that's where we're from, and and get our kids a passport and let them fight at the cadet or junior worlds. I was like, for what? Just to go? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I don't even know if they can make it from that other country, but when I heard that, I it kind of made me disappointed. Like this is a parent thing, too. It may not, I mean, kids are we always want to go places, we always want to, you know, see if we can take a swing, but like that's parentally driven, in my opinion. So that was just a a weird thing. But we could talk about the the games themselves.
Broken Scoring And What Counts
SPEAKER_00Did you get a chance to watch it at all?
SPEAKER_03I did. I watched a bunch of it actually, what it was. I know they were showing one ring at a time, kind of flicking it back and forth, but I saw a lot of matches. I mean, I don't know. I again I know we're talking about it a little. We always talk about it, and I keep saying it, but like the hogu, I don't even know what you do with the hogus at this point. Horrible, man. We complain about the same thing every single time. The Hoguus are are. I mean, you're watching one side score, the other side not even not even move for the same shots.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, I know. She's not like a broken record. I know we talked about this last podcast with you, something with you 13 years ago, and I'm just watching this shit, and I'm just like, blue cannot score. Red is just think. I mean, the kid, the other guy is looking around, and I'm yelling at the TV like to the coach, like can't replay it. Like, you know, or IBR and try to try to ask for a tech, look into this somehow, somehow. I mean, it was just wild. I mean, good players just getting smacked up by average players. Well, I say good players. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start smacking myself every time I say somebody's good because I'm just gonna say they're they're relevant right now in that tournament. Good is not it's not it's not an accurate statement. You know, I'm I'm I'm I'm the other day I was watching, you know, SportsCenter here and they were talking about basketball players and and I'm sitting there how they were grading them and stuff like that. I said, I'm gonna I'm gonna start talking about Taekwondo players like that because I say good relative to the tournament or great relative to the tournament. But I'm gonna bring that back down. I'm gonna stop saying that people are good. I'm gonna say that they're okay, I'm gonna say that they won. But I'm just like, I am not impressed with a lot of these people. And I'm that doesn't mean they can't win. That doesn't mean they can't beat people that I coach and people that I work for. They might, but it doesn't mean that they're good. You know who's good? You know who's my new favorite guy? Abu Fazzi, that the dude from from uh uh Iran. I I know we talked about him, the 68 or 58 dude, but you know, this dude is we don't want to talk about dynamic and people jumping and doing things. This guy can do all that, and his taekwondo is clean. His Ranos kick is fast kick, his double kick, it was 360 down a bottom. It ain't choppy, it's like spin o' kick this. I mean I've been watching this dude's highlight things and training videos, and this boy fights like you stole his lunch money. That boy lived like throw shot. Yeah, he and not only that, if you watch this fight, for example, at the Korean Open, you watch it's like this, he's like young, he's like point, point, point, point, and you see the other guy like I have no answers because he just his his scoring percentage rate is so high. Like when he kicks his horse, you know, other people do a lot of shit and there ain't no points on the board, which brings me to that man's heavyweight at the Central American games. I mean, first round, zero points, second round, zero points, third round, zero points until like the last 15 seconds. I watched three, I watched six minutes of world class taekwondo, and nobody scored a point. I don't know if that's system or athletes, because you know, I I'm a big fan of Carlson Sorce. I'm a big fan of his. This dude's got what world championship and three world championship medals. Like he's the real deal. But I don't know what's going on right now. I've seen this guy in two finals and not score a point. That was strange for me. Strange.
SPEAKER_03So I don't know. You blame it on the system, but then we were just talking about the Iranian boy who scores at will. Like he just does not miss. He scores often, different spots, different areas, different lengths. He don't like to go back, he'll stand there in front of you. Like it's everything everything does very it seems very purposeful, you know? So I I I I I get it. But the the heavyweights, it's gotta be a mix between is the system, I think obviously, but I don't know. I I don't know what you do. Like again, I
Central American Games Takeaways
SPEAKER_03I can't imagine the hogus being bigger and they work any better than the smaller ones, if that makes any sense, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'll tell you what, this this event was was I mean, I think like the the parental favorite in this region of this tournament is Mexico. Right? You have Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Venezuela, those are like the big countries. And you know, mind you, there's only People in every category. So if you lose your first match, you wait to see if you get in the rubber charge and fight one match and you get a bronze. So it's not a big tournament, it's not a high-level technical tournament. But you would think that Mexico would be like finaled up. You know what I'm saying? But they had I think they had four gold medals, two on the men's side and two on the women's side. I don't know if that was what they thought was going to happen or if that's underperforming, but it seems like it would be a little underperforming. I thought Cuba did pretty well for them not getting out in the world as much. They they still make a lot of like strategical and match management errors, but I just that's just because they don't get a chance to fight. They don't get a chance to travel. You know, they don't have money. I heard through the grapevine that there's quite a few Cuban athletes that are just like leaving the village. I mean, if they did that back in the A Day of Cuba, yeah, think about that. When Cuba was Cuba and they were a powerhouse in sport and they had a decent quality of life, people were leaving. So can you imagine now when things are so tough over there with electricity and food and water and resources and internet, like those kids are just jumping off. That's what I heard. I mean, obviously I'm not there, but I have a pretty good source that told me that that was the case. Uh, maybe even with a couple Taekwondo athletes, but I don't know. I just didn't uh I didn't see anybody stand out. I didn't see anybody. Actually, I would say Jessica Lee was probably the one that stood out the best. Actually, the the 63 guy from Venezuela, he fought at the Olympics in 58, uh TJ. He's the one that they joke for, did that back kick spill kick on. Yeah, yeah. He actually fought pretty well in 63. He did pretty well. He he looked he looked good.
SPEAKER_03I think it was a big thing they did all eight weight classes, though. It's a great thing. You liked it or you think it was better the other way?
SPEAKER_00You think the Olympic weight classes are it would have been way more. I mean, for that region, it would have been way more like higher level. You would have just had a more of a condensed group. Yeah. But listen, I'm a any type you can have all weight categories. I'm not hating. I think that's the way it should be. I've never liked the four. It's just it's not fair to 54s, it's not fair to 63s, it's not fair to 74s, not fair to 87s. And the women's side, same thing. It's not fair to the Finn, Phantom, light, and middleweights, because they're forced to fight basically heavy. I know you could say, oh, well, a lightweight can go down to featherweight, but that's asking a lot, you know, if a guy's going down or a woman's going down. Same thing as young, it'll be like you. And if you were middleweight, hey, you gotta go fight the heavyweights now. I mean, you're gonna fight guys 30, 40 pounds heavier than you. I mean, it's not impossible, but it's just not probable. And then you're gonna say, oh, I'll tell you what, you know, you're middleweights, middleweights don't lose 20 pounds to get down to weight. That's what featherweights do. You know what I'm saying? Like lightweight guys do that. Middleweights are heavyweight, they don't lose 20 pounds, you know? So it's unfortunate. But so for for that to have all weight categories in a multi-sport game, I love it. I think it's great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but I think like you said, it's a very prideful game, games for them. Like that at the production value, I like the the setup, the mats, everything looked kind of clean and crisp from what I saw on on video. You know what I mean? Um, I I think the production value obviously is there, but this is a very like prideful thing for them. These are these are big medals, the ones that go and win the whole thing, you know. We like you said, there was a couple weird upsets that you think the divisions, especially on some of the Mexico sides that the probably should have won with their eyes closed, you know, and they're they kind of get in the finals and they got a couple um one on the guy side through the opposite way. But um, I just I the finals were okay for me. Everything else building into the finals was a little bit slow. Some of the bronze medal matches were like wonky. Um, obviously, we saw that one of the heavyweight matches. I mean, hate it or love it. I think that was uh that was a tough heavyweight uh bronze medal match to watch.
SPEAKER_00That was horrible. I hate to say it means it already shaved me, body shame me and stuff like that. But I I don't know how that guy qualified and stuff like that. I felt bad for Moisens because Moisens is a class act, you know. He's a uh a champion for Dominican Republic, and he, you know, he fought that first bronze medal match. And yeah, it is what it is. But yeah, it looked the production did look good. I heard the village was great. I heard the opening ceremonies was fabulous. I heard the food in the village was really good. I mean, that was the early on reports from Coach Lee, Coach's Haitian team. Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know what, like I said, I just I wasn't overwhelmed with uh with the level. And but I do know there's a lot of pride that goes into that kind of stuff. And when those, you know, when people win that medal for the country, it's big in those countries. It's it's really big. Like again, as Americans, we don't really understand that. But you know, I I learned that when I coached um Bruce Acosta, you know, and she won a Panam's Pan Am Games gold medal in like hero, like hero stars. I was like, what when I started coaching with Brazil and they win Pan Am Games, I'm like, what? You know, I it's cool. You know, I won one I'm not my prize accomplishment, but in those countries, in South America and Central America countries, probably everywhere other than the United States and Canada, it's huge. You know, all those multi-sport games is huge. So congratulations, I guess, to all them.
unknownYeah.
Social Media Hype Versus Substance
herbSide on a side note, I had to school and scold one of your friends. I won't mention him by name, but I made a comment about what he was teaching, and he said, Oh, you know, that's what happens when a non-world medalist says something, and I was like, Oh, okay, now let me uh let me school you, son. I I uh I have a better record than your dad. I certainly have a better record than you, and here's my medal list. So I'm still waiting for the apology. I'll tell you who it was offline, but uh hopefully he's listening. He I think he's coaching for the US team. It's it was on a very small post on Instagram alongside my you know my uh the fake Korean brother that's always uh talking about how good he is. And the reason he's good is he refuses to give up even though he sucks. So that's I think that's that's the program he's selling uh in his uh furious attempt, no pun intended, um to uh to make a business for himself. He's more TikTok wick walk than he is content and and finishes. So um we ran into a bunch of those guys back in the day. Those were the almost had, would have had, could have had, should have had. I had an uh interesting conversation today. I was walking with my father-in-law as I was taking him for a daily walk, and one of the gentlemen came up to me is a detective in town, and he's like, Oh, how you been? You know, I'm like, Hey, it's good to see you, sir. He goes, Can I forgot to tell you something? He goes, Joe Rogan is always talking about you. And I'm like, Oh, and so he kind of tells me all these nice things that Joe is uh saying so, um, because he came up from back in the day, and we've talked about this in the past, but um, those are my three beautiful moments today. There was an interesting Buddhist colon I heard as well, and it caused me to think about something, and uh, and a stoic quote. And the stoic quote was actually interesting. It wasn't by Marcus Aurelius, but it might have been, it might have been by Zeno. And they said, uh, the Stoics actually, you know, ancient philosophers, Roman Greeks, whatever. And um, he said, you know, your your opinion of yourself, you always have a high opinion of yourself as a person, yet you allow others' opinion of you to matter more than your own. And I was like, man, that's deep. You know, I've never suffered that problem, by the way. I I let my opinion matter more, but that's something we all should remember. You know, that was a really it was a really interesting quote. I'll send you some of the other ones, but those are my three zen moments for the moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's I when I was talking about my instructor this weekend, one of the things I said was, you know, I was like, I said, look at this room, look how many different people are here. I said, you know what? I go, I'm I'm in a I coach and mentor a lot of people, and you know, I get angry or frustrated at politics or or people or family or athletes, and I bite and I I let it go and I get out there, curse, or say whatever. And I was like, you know, talking about my first instructor. I'm like, you know, that when I was flying up, I'm like, I don't ever remember that dude getting mad. Like, like would he like I don't remember even I don't remember him even scolding us. Like he always found a nice way to say things or a serious way to say things or a philosophical way to say things. And and don't get me wrong, he wasn't some kind of bootish kind of guy, but I'm like getting tell you this guy's a professional, right? He he he he worked for Chase Manhattan for years, but like he would he loved Rodney Dangerfield. He would like bring out a Rodney Dangerfield, you know, you know, comic line. He loved the three stooges. Like I just like and I remember say I told everybody I was like, you know, he'd come up sometimes with a a funny joke in a serious moment, and sometimes I'm like, I'm not sure that that's appropriate, not appropriate, bad, but appropriate, like this is a serious thing. But that was him. Like he just he found it. So I mean, when you say that, like it's it's true, especially in the day and age of these damn phones and this shit that we're like, I can't believe he said what? What do we who cares? Why are we letting that person really affect us?
herbYeah, and I I think that's an interesting thing. You know, I was thinking about it a little bit because I was like, and I'm not just you know, I'm not hating on any of these individuals in general, but you know, I've been watching, I get a lot of this feed on my various um social media things, and there's this one where it's a girl who's obviously not that good at taekwondo, and she makes up for that by wearing a bra top instead of a uniform. And so she's over there, and this is how you do potachuggy, and here's how you step, and here's how you close, you know, and I'm like watching this, and I'm like, so we've now, and my problem is the public in general. I don't mind, listen, go out and sell yourself, prostitute yourself however you want, whether you're a man or a woman. And this isn't gender-based, right? There's a taekwondo prostitute using a fake Korean accent to sell product to sell a business product. There's a taekwondo prostitute going out there and calling himself, you know, the furious five and hasn't won anything but yet wants to tell everybody how to win. So when I watch this girl, she's just one in a long line of people that is out there using this beautiful thing that has been created, not by us, by the way. You and I borrowed it. It's been created before us. We took it to the next evolution. And fortunately, the three of us were in the generation of performers where you had to perform to be noticed. Now you don't have to perform to be noticed. All you got to do is talk loud enough. You got to scream loud enough. You got to put a uh a sports bra top on, like Brandy Chastain for you people that may remember her. And that's how you get looks and views, and and then you you drink, uh, you drape a pair of shoes around your neck instead of winning something and try to make that the thing that matters. And I'm like, I guess, I mean, I don't know. It's just not what we did. Um, but don't prostitute and bastardize and and minimalize the thing that we created. You know, honor it, do something with it, make something better than we did. And if you want to argue what you're doing now is better, whether it's TikToking and wick walking or foot fighting and foot farting and all that, I mean that's a debate.
SPEAKER_00The problem is, yeah, it it's I mean, obviously, listen, it's like you said, people could do the weirdest thing in the world and go viral and become famous and make money. And so everyone, everybody has an opinion, everybody has a has a social media account, so that's what everyone's trying to do. And you know, it's it's funny, but you know, it it it even again, let's just look in our sport, even within our sports, you know, with the two organizations here. I mean, that's you know, the the propaganda that they put out, you know, about training camps, about ID camps, about development, or about you know, national team selection type stuff. I mean, it's just it's it's copy and paste, it's it's you know, overuse of uh of AI, you know, it's it's there's not not a whole lot of thought put into it, just a lot of copying. And yeah, I know there's an event this weekend, and I look at some of the logos and I'm like, that logo looks very much like a crest in a thing that's used in the other organization. Like, you can't even have an original thought, you know. I mean, it's just that's where we're at right now. So if it comes from the top, I'm just again, I'm talking about our sport. If it comes from the top and that's what we're seeing, of course the athletes are gonna do that. And TJ, you mentioned it time and time again. It's leadership type stuff, it's real, you know, type of leadership. And I don't know about these other people because organizations are not responsible for that.
SPEAKER_03I was having a conversation with someone about that as well. Just kind of like again, it goes back to standards, though. I think there still has to be a standard. I don't care what generation we enter. I know we do have a lot of access to social media very fast. Everything is about clicking, liking. I mean, you got highlight reels, you know, constant, constant, constant, constant, constant. Like you said, you don't even have to win anymore. Post something because I don't think that's why people post it. I think they just posted to again get those likes, get their, you know, their instant gratification from someone saying, that was cool or that was awesome. I I think we've entered a world where I I don't get it. I I try like it's uh I try to understand the social media aspect of some of it, but it it like you said it goes back to leadership. It doesn't align with some of the it there's still again, I keep it standards. That's what it was. It's just that's it's just standards. There was it had to be a certain way. It was had to look a certain way, it should feel a certain way. You're representing a a country or organization, I don't know. But I think this is a sport, in especially in the United States, has turned into a very individual sport. I think it used to be more we kind of had a group, even though we had our this, you know, our disputes and this team versus this team, but the culture of it was, I think, in line to that to a certain extent of like the fighting and development and what was good and what was bad.
SPEAKER_00Do you think that's because we are being taught right, or because there's no social media or a combination of the both?
herbBecause you don't have any leadership. So, like, think about why think that's it. Think about what we had. We had people that we stepped sideways, they yelled at us, they hit us, they they they did whatever is necessary, or they threw us out, or they didn't let us in the room. Now you don't guys don't bow, they don't do this, they don't do that, they don't have anybody, they don't wear belts, they don't wear uniforms, they don't they don't have they don't have the part of the the thing that made us different, which was the culture. And you know, it's not a Korean culture, it's just a sport culture. And soccer has it, by the way. Soccer has a culture. And you know, you know, if you like my son's playing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00All I mean, uh not to the you're right, soccer has it, and so does baseball, and so does football, and so does hockey, any team sport where people get together, there's a leader, and there's someone that that that that that controls the practice and that that goes and talks to the coach and then goes and talks to the team when they're screwing up, that goes and talks to the team when they're not they're not they're being held accountable. That's almost all team sports. And I know we're an individual sport, but what made us unique is that we had a team environment. You do have a team, you have a USA national team. You don't have a just USA member, you have a national team. You have eight men and eight women, ten boys, ten girls on the junior cadet level. There has to be some kind of leadership. If it's not from the athletes themselves, it has to be from the coach. If it's not from the coach, it has to be from the administration. Somebody has to keep things in line so that we can build. There's nobody teaching that, and so you have a bunch of stuff, you have a bunch of things, whether it's talent or not talent. I'm not talking about that right now, but you got a bunch of stuff, and that's not good enough. It hasn't been good enough, and it's not being good enough. So I don't know where that changes or when that changes or how that changes.
Making It Hard Enough To Matter
SPEAKER_00And believe me, getting four people to the Olympic Games by virtue of non-qualification only because it's in your country is not gonna do that either.
herbIt's not gonna do that. Sorry, but you don't you don't have any you don't have anyone, you know, just just to say uh probably more clearly, you you don't have anybody on the current coaching staff that ever had the experience of working as hard as humanly possible to reach the top of the podium. And when you don't have that on the coaching staff, the two coaches that are coaching, they don't value it themselves. They can't value something they never had. They didn't have a culture because they didn't get to a place where it mattered. Not until you've sacrificed and bled and and given everything up and couldn't pay your rent and lost your car because you didn't have $17 for the down payment for the not for the down payment for the payment, and it got repossessed while you got the world championship, come home and you're on a bus. Not till you experience that moment. Do you have something to talk about? So that's you know, that's my um, you know, 10 seconds on that idea, but you know, that that there's truth in that. There's some real truth in it. So it has so it has to be tough to matter. If it so think about it yourself, and I just say this, just think about it for a second. Does it have to be tough to matter? I don't know if it has to be tough to matter, but I tell you, it's gotta matter. And the only way it's gonna matter is if you make it matter, and and the way you make it matters, you gotta care more about it. You gotta, and we've talked about this before, but let me let me say it again so it's said at least. You gotta hate losing. You gotta hate the feeling of doing all that work, you gotta love the feeling of winning, hate losing more, though, and then you won't allow someone to denigrate the experience. When we didn't let people wear our um uniform, the reason we didn't let them wear our uniform, the USA team uniform, was we earned it. And if we didn't learn it and earn it, then we wouldn't have valued it either. If we had just showed up on the team and there was no hierarchy and you got what you wanted, and when or lose, you went home and whatever else. If you lost the first year on the team, they didn't expect to see you next year. They started treating you differently. In fact, they didn't want to see you next year. If you won, you gained a little respect. You worked hard in practice, you gained a little more respect. When you finally get to the place where you win something, whether it's a gold, a bronze, or a silver, you go to the Olympic Games, you remember what you did to get it. You remember the value of it. And then when you communicate with someone else about it, you communicate in two ways. One is you explain the value and what's necessary to achieve it. And I've always told this story, and you've heard me tell this story, but I'll tell it again. Here's the story. Every time, and you've all had it, you meet some kid, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed kid, and he comes up and he's like, Sir, I'll do whatever's necessary. I've been waiting for this opportunity. I came to this seminar to meet you personally. What do I have to do to win? Tell me and I'll do it. No matter what it is, you tell me and I will do it. Okay. So you start to tell them. Then their eyes glass over and you see them start looking, and their mouth starts to tremble because you tell them what's necessary. And you just wait because you know what the next step is. You finish, and then they go, I said, and then you go, so that's what you have to do. Any questions? And they go, but but but I have to go to school. But I I said, the moment you say but, there's another guy somewhere else in the world, somewhere else in the country is not going to say but. You just, you just failed. If you don't do any, if you do everything you believe possible, you still may not win. You still may never make a team. But until somebody has that real conversation with the shoe guy around the neck, the fake Korean accent guy selling memberships, the other guy, you know, telling people it's okay to suck, but I still matter, you need to have, you need to have that conversation. But anyway, I'm on my preaching thing again.
SPEAKER_03Nah, I get it. I mean, I was just asking. I think it's it doesn't feel like it it matters sometimes. Our process makes it feel that way. From the the the qualifiers to the way we do it within our country makes it feel that way sometimes. I mean, again, the one thing we did have, and I feel like I always had was a shot to go and make the national team. It didn't matter how good this person was internationally and what they did, like they had to come back home and be in front of the best.
herbWhere did you get that feeling from? Like, in other words, you so tell me tell me a little bit about that and tell I tell the listeners about that. What's part? Sorry. What you just said. The part, the part where you're talking, tell me what you just said, and tell me where that feeling came from.
SPEAKER_03That you you had to earn your spot and you had to come back and you would defend your spot? You had a feeling, you had a feeling you could make the team. Where did that feeling come from? I mean, I had a had a chance to make the team. I mean, I believed I could go make the team. I had an opportunity from from what?
herbFor no reason? For where did it come from?
SPEAKER_03Oh, obviously, no, obviously, my coaching, obviously, my my coaching from you.
herbYou trained hard enough, you did the work, you had good coaches, and you did the work. You had a right to have that. Feeling. Now that's where the feeling starts. Where does it where does it manifest itself after that?
SPEAKER_03I mean, uh like I was saying, for for me, it's always small.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yes. Small vocabulary.
SPEAKER_03But always thought I did enough.
herbSay it. Say it. I want stuff. That's it. Don't be embarrassed. You you want stuff. So you get an opinion. Be clear. You believed because you trained. You had good coaches, so you believed. Your coaches told you you were good, you believed. You started winning stuff, you get the right to believe. So that when you finally get to the end of that journey, you make an Olympic team and win a medal, you value that because you bled for it, you you you sacrificed for it, you did everything humanly possible for it. And you should. Now, when you teach, I'm gonna guarantee you, just like Coach Moreno, you teach in a certain way. Why? Because it ain't free. You don't get it for free. You don't get my instructor, he didn't teach people. He, if he didn't think they were worthy, he didn't take them. See full visio, he didn't let you came in the room, he threw me out. That's the way old school was. You had to earn the right just to be in the room.
SPEAKER_00EJ, so you said about being you does it have to be hard, like her to does it have to be tough, does it have to be hard to mean something? I mean, I I I would say yes, I would say every single time it has to be hard. Even if either for some reason you won pretty comfortably, the training had to be hard, the commitment had to be hard, the sacrifice had to be hard, right? I mean, I it can't be easy, but I think I think that that's been lost.
herbI think you could act you could talk to some people and why does hardly let me ask you both a question. Um and it's just a question. Would you rather have a talented athlete or a hard-working scrappy scrappy athlete?
SPEAKER_03Hardworking, probably. And there's a reason.
herbDo you know why? Because a talented athlete is talented, and unless he does the hard work, when he gets in trouble, he's gonna fail. So we both know I don't want to mention his name because he's a friend. There was an incredibly talented athlete, incredibly talented. And he worked pretty hard, but he didn't work hard enough. He didn't win. When he got in trouble, he fell apart. If you're not as talented, you have to work hard to learn your craft. You pay attention to detail. So when you get in trouble, you know what to do.
SPEAKER_00But that's my I guess that's my that's where I'm going with this. I I I don't think it's as hard anymore, TJ. I think because and you could say, well, but I got a certain ranking, and so that put me on the team. But that was a series of things, right? Series of non-pressure things, like I could win here, I could lose here, I could win here. But when it's all put together, it allows me to get there. I don't think that was hard. I think that even going no matter how good you are, everyone knows you could lose on that day. No matter how good you are, some the chest pressures might not work, unfortunately. No matter how good you are, you could tweak your knee. And that's for it. And I know people say, Yeah, but don't we want the best person over the whole year? But again, the point of this was to answer your question. Does it have to be hard to mean something? And I think it does. I think when you you said, How many times did you go to team trials early on when you were young and you lost? You look you were looking up to those those those big dudes, and you you took your shot and you fell, and then next year you said, I'm gonna get them, and they knew you were hunting them, and it was a matter of time. Now there's no chance for the 17 year old Juan Moreno to go to the Olympic trials and see what happens. There's no young TJ going after the big guns that won world Olympic medals. There's because the system has kind of changed that. I don't want to discount because again, listen, I work for an Olympic committee, and sometimes I try to um look at a selection procedure that won't mess up our investment, right? If we've invested a lot of money in somebody and they're doing really, really well, we ought to make sure that they have a you know a level playing field. But you know, we have to balance that stuff, but there's always a chance for that other person. There's always a chance, you know, and if if athlete A is so good and happens to lose, that's sport, my friend. They don't they don't protect LeBron, they don't protect Michael, they don't protect Tom. You silly.
SPEAKER_03I think it went at one point. At one point, it was because we didn't want our high-level athletes fighting with people that were low level. And I remember you know, I was going around, oh, they could hurt the the bad guys that don't know how to fight could hurt these guys and they got to travel to the pre-next week or they got to do this and this and this, and like all these reasons behind why they were trying to separate it. Now it moved on to the area where we're we're getting kids into their system and we're removing them from that basic system at ages 19 and 20 years old when they should probably still be getting tested within the United States of America, even if it's just that layer to go, like you guys just said, I proved that I am the best. Like, you know, I think there's certain situations that need to be, I don't, I guess, I don't know if the words reevaluated, looked at, because you're you're taking, even if it's top higher uh top-tier talent, you're taking it off of there and moving it to this secret pile over here that gets to travel and do their things again. Granted, right, wrong, not talking about that right now, but it that separates that that that young person. You don't you don't get to go and try to fight her or fight him at at our team trials. We've always, you know, if you end in top 10 or top 15 or top five, you automatically make the national team. And I think I started a little bit before them, to be honest, when it when when all the ranking started to become kind of important, but that's what it is. It's them protecting whatever their investment is, you know. That's all their money going.
SPEAKER_00But I think I every country is unique, right? And and in America, we should have our our our talent pool should be big and it should be, you know, plentiful and should be tilted, you know, and that you know, those people should I I don't know. I think you I think you gotta let people test their test their, you know, take their shot. You know, I I I know wrestling is is is just well known for, you know, they win a world championship and they're back at the nationals the next year. They're hitting the they win Olympic gold medal and they're right back in there. That's how it was. And I know USA, we have a little bit of buffer room. Okay, you don't have to go to states, okay? You don't have to go to nationals, okay. You go to set a team trial. So you gotta skip two steps. You know, they were unnecessary for our top-level guys. They don't need to go to a state championship, they don't need to go to national championships, but they should have to fight off with the with the four other people. How however, I mean, they're doing it a little wacky right now, but historically, the other four you know, people that won at the nationals. I think if you start to put some pressure back on certain events, it makes it hard, TJ. It makes it worthwhile, TJ. It makes it matter. It makes that all when you look around the national team, like we all did that same shit. We all went to the nationals and placed, we all went to team trials and beat everybody. We have that common bond, at least for that day. There's not like, well, you had it this way, you had that way. You got funding, right? I mean, right now you can look around and be like, the only reason, and I I'm gonna say this the only reason some people are uh are above in the ranking and and and making the national team is because the organization has decided that they're gonna fund them because they're in that room and they help them go get those points. That's the only reason. And I would have less of a a problem if I said give them all the money, give them all the resources, give them the best training. I'll see them in the ring. And then I can't say shit. If they whoop my ass, I can't say nothing. But if I whoop their ass and I make the team, you know, it is what it is. It is what it is.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's like you said, that's what's missing. That's the that's the that that little window that's been blocked off or changed from when we talk about development, we talk about having an actual pipeline. Good or bad, I think gets better over the time. I mean, when we had 80 was our biggest division in the United States, and we had a five-time world champion in that division, and you saw six, seven good people show up with team trials every single year. You know, getting his ass and trying to get, and that's and but that's what it felt like. Even for him, even a guy that excelled to that that that level had to still come back and fight tournaments in the United States of America, you know. I I and especially and that was even a different time where we didn't have uh a need for all the funding and to go to all the opens and G1s and G2s. It was just uh, you know, nationals team trials. You do the event, maybe you go to some opens, but it wasn't a it wasn't a ranking thing.
SPEAKER_00You couldn't we couldn't really talk about people lining up for events. I mean, just a quick little side, like I don't know, we're gonna hear, we're gonna
Team Trials, Participation, And Access
SPEAKER_00see. I mean, because tomorrow the the competition starts, but there's that that that team trials that's gonna go on starting this weekend. And what's it ah man, for that organization that we don't belong to that because they got rid of us, I don't even want to say their name, I don't want to give them, but they uh again, I don't I don't know because they didn't see, but somebody told me in a message that there's like 21 senior matches or 31 senior matches out of 16 divisions. And it if I'm not wrong, it's a round robin tournament, right? I think so. It usually is. I mean, if it's a round run tournament and there's 31 people out of all senior divisions, men and women, that's not good. But again, we'll we'll we'll be able to confirm or deny next week. But I'll throw it out there. Speaking of the old federation, I want to say a happy birthday to Ryan Andovich, master Grandmaster Ryan Andich. This is his birthday. I did see that. Happy birthday. One of our good friends, Grandmaster Sutter's daughter. I don't want to put her name out there because she's a minor, but congratulations to her. She turned 16. Happy birthday, TJ. Grady, shady, grady. You got some gray hairs? My yes. You have some gray hairs in your chest.
herbStill shining. Still shining. Yeah, no, it's by his cornhole.
SPEAKER_03That's crazy. Have you ever seen the game? Have you ever watched it? I did play. I did play. I played in the Armed Forces one. They have an Armed Forces uh competition every year out there. It's pretty fun, man. I don't know. It's like old school horse shows. Can you drink? They drink, yeah. You can drink. There's beer inside, and uh mostly just beer though. They get anybody get mad? That's that's a couple people arguing back and forth, you know, making a little bit of beep with each other. Yeah, it was it was funny to watch some of the younger guys and talking 18, 90 years old or like calling like the 35 year old and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, like old, that's why he went and still.
SPEAKER_00You should let her play because he got those gorilla arms like he I have I I have played cornhole. You have not played cornhole.
herbI've not the kind that he played. I played the one with the the bean bags and the and the bag thing. So yeah, I played that.
SPEAKER_03Do you play like at the beach or like a cookout or something?
herbUm no, I play the you know, when you go out here, that's this California, so they have all sorts of stuff you can do.
SPEAKER_03Oh, like the parks and stuff.
herbYeah, so you know, you just you know, you got bars, yeah. You just do your thing, but it is what it is.
SPEAKER_03It's a fun game. I like it. I like it.
herbSo yeah, I tease about it, but it is fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, those guys got like the special bags where it slides and sticks and the boards are certain, it has to be regulation, and they come out with new bags every year that are regulation. It's it's it's a whole nother world of craziness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's they're and just like any of those I don't know what I don't want to call it a sport, what I call this, what activity, whatever. Those guys are good, man. Those guys know how to conversation about that if cornhole was a sport. Yeah, I mean, it's it's like golf sport. I know, I I love this debate, you know.
herbLet me let me let me tell you something so I can just save you guys both some time.
SPEAKER_00Just high hand to eye coordination.
herbNumber one, number one, Armstrong, the cornhole thing, just so you can understand. I saw something that I I fought. So the Olympic committee, I was on the board of directors and all that nonsense, and I was on the membership credential committee where we would review sports, yeah. Yeah, I was I was vice chairman. You know all that nonsense. I know that so they would send sports to me to review. One of the sports that came was chess. And we're like, I I told the story chess a game. I asked them chess a game or a sport when you're growing up. They said, a game. I said, You call yourself an athlete or a player? Say player. I say next. They say we're willing to play it on ice. They were willing to put a table of ice and play. So I said, That's not it. So, what do I see on TV the other day? Yes, thank you. Chess boxing. Yeah, sorry. You saw that chess boxing? I didn't know they were doing like a round of 15 minutes of chess. And then at the end of the round, they gotta sit and play a chess game. I'm not lying. No, no, I took a picture and sent that to my friends. Chess boxing, and the guy's so happy. He's like, Yeah, we wanted to be in the Olympics, and you know, we're gonna be in the I'm like, chess. You saw boxing. In in in the Central American games, they have artistic, I'd watch that before I watch current Olympic tycoons.
SPEAKER_00I'm I I don't even know what it is.
SPEAKER_03I'm assuming it's like like ice ski, you know, and they're doing all that stuff, but I was just kind of like you've seen the ones where they like have to tag each other, like it's a whole I'd like that.
herbThat's not an Olympic sport, but is it a sport though?
SPEAKER_03Is it a sport? They're chasing each other, jingle over bars, sliding, sport.
herbNo, no, that's it. I'll give it a support. No, it's a sport. I'll give it a sport. Yeah, I'll give it a sport because it's it's athletic. Now it's a game, it's a kid's game. That's like playing Johnny on the pony. But this is sport.
SPEAKER_00So so I mean, I guess we're getting way off topic here, but that's cool. So, like, okay, then what isn't a sport? Like archery, you know, is darts a sport? And you're like, no, it's a game. Well, is our what about archery? What about shooting?
herbYou know, what about archery is archery archery is not a sport. Sorry. Archery goes, shooting shooting goes, shooting goes.
SPEAKER_03Shooting is or isn't it goes?
herbShooting's not a sport. You ever see the fat bastards that do shooting? That's not a sport. Well, you don't have to do that exercise to do that sport. You gotta sweat, it's gotta involve danger, a ball, or or danger or a ball, or athleticism. The only way shooting becomes a sport is if you stand across from another guy and you shoot at each other. And that's what they should do with modern pentathlon, right? The same thing.
SPEAKER_03Don't give up the ideas.
herbIt'll be like laser draw, Olympic laser draw. Five, four, three, two. Yeah, that's it. Now you got a sport. And you know who the real winners were because the other ones would be dead. Man, tied me up. What about bowling? Bowling has never been a sport. Never. Nope.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, have like technical aspect. They could break a sweat. I mean, they call it a game. And it doesn't involve the ball. It has a ball, it has a ball.
herbIt's a game. I gotta be I got bad news for my friend Sean O'Neill. Ping pong, it's a game. No game. Ping pong table. And it's all table tennis, sir. Tennis is not tennis. You got it twenty. Tennis is different. Table tennis.
SPEAKER_00Table tennis is tough, man.
herbThose are nice reaction. Pickleball in the Olympics.
SPEAKER_03I wouldn't mind it. It will be. I wouldn't mind it.
SPEAKER_00I think it, I think if you get a bunch of at like high-level athletes playing it, tell, tell me out, tell. We're talking about we're talking crap about other sports, and we look what we have at we look what we do.
herbI know. I gave up on Taekwondo. Taekwondo's not a sport anymore either. You didn't ask me that question.
What Is A Sport Anyway
SPEAKER_03Hey, did you see the change? Real quick, did you see the change between the Central American games and then did you watch any of the team fighting clips?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03They're just jumping around. You watch all the team fighting? Bro, the clips I saw was a lot of like doubles and triples and back kicks and spin and jumping around. Like, was that was that the overall vibe, or is that just the first round?
SPEAKER_00The first round was a little bit more conservative and stuff like that. But then you know things got a little out of control with the scores, and guys were just kind of chucking things and stuff. But again, I don't know if the referees were pushing the buttons or we don't know. Sometimes they I mean they they choose, you know, but it there was points flying up for teams. I'm just like, I don't know what's going on. It looked like the the matches. So I I couldn't tell, but I mean that was pretty sloppy, pretty ugly. But it's it's exciting. I mean, that at least that's at least people are just going at it, you know what I'm saying? They're not like I saw one dude just grab the sh grab him. He's like, oh, but the referee is over there, dude. He's like you could see it on TV, but he did not let go, man. He was ripping that guy's hogoo. I was like, damn. Damn, damn, damn.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, holdings legal now. You can hook your leg, grab the hogoo, grab the back, wrap your arm.
SPEAKER_00Uh on a business uh thing, I'm I I sold out my camp like a couple. I saw that.
herbYeah, congratulations.
SPEAKER_00It's like it's like three and a half, almost four weeks ahead. Like, I was just like, yikes, man. And honestly, I mean, truth be told, I mean, you know, I I the fast camp series, the you know, to keep people my mind, but one of my models is of this camp is that it's a smaller number of people, um with more attention to detail and stuff like that with the people. So I like the time with them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I like the number. I like the number.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, I mean, that's what I used to do, but this number just got it, it went over the number I normally do, and I just like I just had to shut down the the site. So, you know, I've had people like close people, people that are are part of the peak family, and they're like kin so-and-so. I'm like, I can't. I got you know, you should have got in when you could have, you know. I mean, it is what it is, and so it's been pretty funny that not funny, it's it it's it's pretty flattering that it that it popped up and waited. So yeah, yeah, we'll have a little bit of a stretch of taekwondo with uh after the camp straight to uh the president's cup camp president's cup. You gotta camp afterwards, like go to Wuju for the Grand Prix.
SPEAKER_03There's two tournaments that week we're actually doing there's a there's the President's Cup and then some other tournament like later on that week. You can do both Pet 212. Yeah, I'm there with my kids, so I might as well just stay in the net campus after that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I gotta leave on that Saturday, Saturday night.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we'll be there. We'll be there. I like I like Peru. I like the venue. This the the venue's not bad. Uh the seating's good. The whole air is a little bit wonky, but the seating's always good.
SPEAKER_00Nah, it'll be a good tournament. It'll be I mean they they I give Peru a lot of credit. They've been they've been stepping up their game and stepping up their venue, stepping up to their their props and how they run the tournaments and stuff like that is pretty pretty professional. They like I told you, I I was lucky enough in January to go up there doing a coaching presentation and uh an athlete uh program for I think four days of athletes and two days of coaching. It was uh I was impressed with how professional they were, you know, and they're obviously they're building and their new coach. They have a Cuban coach that's I think doing a good job there. Like I see his impact on the way people are competing. I think I talked about that, you know, in the Pan Am Championships and stuff like that. So to go to uh Lima and uh for the President's Cup is gonna be pretty pretty good. I uh you know we got a couple weeks to talk about that term coming up, but it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I don't know. Not too excited about it right now. But it's 30 extra points, so I know people are gonna need it, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean it it it's become one of the I mean it is one of the biggest point ones, but it's like it's an important one. It's kind of like that one that's it is extra, you know. The ones that are at the head of the game, they can go to other other events and the grand prize and stuff, but that one's uh a little bit of bonus and icing on the cake, but uh it's smaller field and hopefully a little bit more tight. But we'll see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds good, it sounds good. Well, I know this one was uh a little bit of a hodgepodge.
Camps, Peru Travel, And Wrap-Up
SPEAKER_00I used that word before. You guys joked at me. Hodge podge of of stuff, but uh fun talking guys. Like, well, you call it a day, I want to say again, happy birthday there, young. I can't call you young anymore. 40 years old is like legit, you know, 35, 38, you're still there, but 40, that's that's legit old.
SPEAKER_03Like crazy.
SPEAKER_00Like when you were when you were 20, you were the king of the hill, and you were hanging out on the on the block, and everyone, some 40 year olds say, hey man, can I hang out with you? You'd be like, hell no, get your ass out of here.
SPEAKER_03Now I think I got to I got to Miami around what, 21, 20, nine, uh 20 or 21? When I moved to Miami. That's a long time. It's crazy, huh?
herbYeah, thank you. You're good, you're back, and the the uh you're you're happy and the life is good, and that's all that matters. And you don't look 40, so that's good too. Well, you're 40? Thank you. Oh, Jesus. You're 40? Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. 40 40 or zero.
SPEAKER_00Time five.
herbMay you rest in peace.
SPEAKER_00How much you want 73? What do you 78? What do you know? Kilos?
SPEAKER_03I'm so old. I'm so old. Oh, he didn't know how old. Oh no, no, no. I don't know how many kilos that was. I was like 70, 84 and a half. 66. 66.
SPEAKER_00Maybe 6'7, next week 6'7. Oh my god, that's the next one. I got I gotta tell you a funny story. So I'm in Chicago, I get in Chicago, I take the train, I take the L into the into the city to see my uh I'm staying at one of my my my friend's house. He lives right in the city on Western. And uh I'm going there, I'm talking with Camille on the phone, and I'm like, I don't know if I should do it. She gives me this sign with her hand to kind of make like a heart sign thing, but it's a legitimate gang sign from where I come from. And I'm like, What I'm like holding my phone looking around, like, you're trying to get me killed. She's trying to get her dad killed. She goes, it's a heart. I'm like, show me that again. She's I'm like, Camilla, that's a that's a gang sign in my in Chicago. That's a legit gang sign. It was so funny, man. She's like, no, Papa. She's showing me a love. I'm like, it was like a half of a heart. So you're supposed to put the other half of like, nah, Jack, that's a gang sign, man. The straight up catchwork.
herbJust hang up with the phone. As crazy as people are now, you gotta be careful, man. Chicago.
SPEAKER_00That's why they call us Chirac for nothing, man. They lost their minds. They lost their mind. I'm messing nobody over there. I just keep my head straight.
herbJust mind your business. Just keep your mind your business. I don't have a gun there.
SPEAKER_00I can't.
herbAll right, gentlemen, it's been a good, good, good run today. We got things to go, places to be, people to see.
SPEAKER_00Let me see if you're young. Don't don't don't cry. You know, I know your son is leaving for Cornell in a couple days. The next time we get here, I don't want to see this.
herbI don't, I there may not be a next time. I may be moving to I'm gonna open a school in Ithaca. I'm gonna bring some real taekwondo there. He's on his way. He's on his way. Ithaca, Ithaca, Taekwondo. Actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm actually I'm gonna open a Korean karate and Kung Fu Academy.
SPEAKER_00How far is Ithaca from like Albany? It's connected.
herbThere's nothing near Ithaca. Ithaca is like, I checked everywhere. Syracuse, it's like 70 miles. Albany, I think, is still pretty far.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because my boy has uh well, he's in the suburbs of Albany. He's actually opened his third school, he's doing really, really well.
herbTell him to give me a call. Tell him to give me a call. I'm looking. Well, you can you can teach at a school. Dude, he wants to I'll be there. I use a gig. I need a reason to be out there.
SPEAKER_02All right. I can do the accent too. All right. Uh you cannot jump a higher hire, jump a high. No, you are not very good. Uh oh, no. Look at the scene. You're gonna look uh like you're Korean. You know, my name is Mr. Oh. My name is Clinton. Oh, oh, give me your money.
herbOh, give me your money. You fools. Keep giving that clown your money. All right, we out. That might be the right song. Actually, that's