Define "Deserve" w/ Brandon Collins

In this latest episode of Authenticate, Kate McLeod invites on Brandon Collins, a wearer of many hats—comedian, producer, writer, cultural critic—but the thread running through all of it is his ability to keep building, even when the blueprint falls apart. In this episode, they get into what it means to shape a creative identity without permission, what success feels like when imposter syndrome tries to rewrite the story, and how to keep showing up in rooms you’re not sure you’re allowed in.

This conversation moves through early trauma, internalized doubt, creative discipline, and the risk of fully owning your voice. And in it, Kate asks questions that push us toward a deeper understanding of why we do what we do—and how we keep doing it even when it feels like too much.

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"Fear is excitement without the breath." –Fritz Perls, a founder of Gestalt Therapy 

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Transcript

Define "Deserve" w/ Brandon Collins

[00:00:00]

I grew up on Hanson's, which is like the non soda, soda.

Brandon Collins: Ooh.

Kate McLeod: So now when I have a real soda with the real sugar, the full blown ness of it all, I am like, this is the best thing.

Brandon Collins: Oh yeah.

Kate McLeod: Ever.

Brandon Collins:Yeah. 

Kate McLeod INTRO:Welcome to the latest episode of Authenticated with your host, Kate McLeod. I am intrigued by people, people watching. I love people learning. That's where I'm insatiably curious. I'm interested in the why and how of the creative minds pattern of thinking. The subtext to the creative thinker or in its more conscious and malleable form, the creative conscious.

Because when you are so clear on yourself via the triad of consciousnesses, then you become reflective to others. Meeting yourself is an infectious practice because what feels good is infectious and something I think we could all use a good dose of. So join me in conversations with a diverse arsenal of creative thinkers, from artists to entrepreneurs, to serial thinkers ready to optimize their creative conscious with me.

Self-made and self-proclaimed creative entrepreneur. [00:01:00] Sounds hot, right? 

Kate McLeod: Brandon Collins, welcome to the podcast.

Brandon Collins: Hey. Hey.

Kate McLeod: How you doing?

Brandon Collins: I'm excited.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. 

Brandon Collins: This is dope. It's been a, been a long time coming. I'm excited. 

Kate McLeod: It has been a long time coming. I think we started talking about this, what, like three months or four months ago? 

Brandon Collins: It was pre-recession eminent. I believe that. 'cause we were at a coffee shop and I was just like, man, I'm gonna order like a bunch of coffees, maybe a pastry. Like I was feeling good, feeling good about money. And now I'm like, man, I could really use that $7.89. Damn. Why did we have to meet for coffee? 

Kate McLeod: We could have just gone for a walk.

Brandon Collins: It's all right. I mean, we did, uh, 'cause I had to walk off the calories, but yeah, like a walk would be way more, uh, pocket friendly.

Kate McLeod: Yeah, it would. No. Okay. Yeah. So we started talking about this a while ago, and ever since then I've been familiarizing myself with your work. Ah. And what's so crazy is not crazy at all actually. But I had a hunch about you. Okay. When you reached out to me. Yes. And I was like, when I looked you up, I was like, man, Amanda's a lot. Yes. And I was like, what's going on? I've been told that. Yes. Yes. And then when we met and started talking, I was like, 

This guy is as much of a chronic, this guy is as [00:02:00] much of a chronic doer as I am. Like holy shit. Yeah. So.

Brandon Collins: It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Um, I'm pretty sure I have ADD at this point. But yeah, I've always been like drawn to so many different things and like I'm- since I was a kid, my grandfather was always like, give yourself options.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm. 

Brandon Collins: So I kind of was like, let me learn as much as I can about everything.

I'm in a place now where like being a master nun is a little bit challenging, but I kind of know what I wanna do for the rest of my life. Like, I'm finally settling in on that and feeling comfortable saying that.

Kate McLeod: but yeah, for a long time, especially when I was younger, I was like, why not do this thing? Like, what's the worst thing that could happen? As long as like, I don't face bodily harm or like, get into financial debt. Why not do these things? So I've had random opportunities come to me where I'm like, yeah, I'll try that. Even if I don't like it, I'll just not do it anymore. Don't you think there's a mastery of doing all of it?

Brandon Collins: I mean, because I'm not great at everything, but I know how to do certain things, but there's a lot of things I don't know how to do, which I'm very forthright about though.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. But you enjoy it when you know something.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: When you know how to, yes. Okay.

Brandon Collins: I think anybody does, like, when they feel like that satisfaction, like, uh, kinda a sense of [00:03:00]accomplishment, maybe even acceptance depending on what it is.

Kate McLeod: Wait, can I push back on that a little bit?

Brandon Collins: Sure.

Kate McLeod: so you say that you're not great.

Mm. But is it about being perceived great or is it about feeling great?

Brandon Collins: Oh, it's just me in my head.

Kate McLeod: Okay. Okay.

Brandon Collins: That's me in my head. Like, I, like I work through therapy on

Kate McLeod: Stunning.

Brandon Collins: Every week, but, um, yeah, I'm constantly putting myself down constantly. Just, that's the mental anguish from being like, bullied a lot of my life just because I thought differently or like I saw the world differently.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And got teased. And also I was like a black kid, like the only black kid in a lot of my classes. and I just was different. I was like a nerdy kid. I liked off obscure stuff. So that's just like when you get that so much and then like you're embarrassed to talk about at home, you just reinforce the negative thoughts and stuff.

and I've been like working really hard to like be positive about myself and like remind myself I deserve to be in this space. I deserve to be in this room and like be talking to these incredible people that are doing amazing things that inspire me.

'cause for a long time I was like, ah, it's the imposter syndrome, but even like worse.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Because imposter syndrome's like, oh, people are gonna find out I don't know what I'm doing. But like, the [00:04:00] feelings I have sometimes are like, not only they gonna find out you don't know what you're doing, but like, you shouldn't even be in this room. Like you shouldn't even gone in the building. who do you think you are?

kind of thing. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: You say deserve. What's your definition of deserve?

Brandon Collins: Hmm. That's a good question. For me, it's like someone that's worthy of taking space worthy of other people's time. Mm-hmm. I'm very big on that, like making sure I'm respectful of people's time, making sure that anything I have to bring to you, like hopefully benefits you in some way. 'cause I want people to like me, that's like a big thing, like being an only child and like 

Always kinda looking for positive attention. Like, I always wanted people to like me, so. Yeah. That's the thing.

Kate McLeod: That is interesting to hear. I'm intrigued by that because so much of your work amplifies so many other people. Yes. Whether they can speak for themselves or they can't.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: You have a conversational, ongoing oral history. That was my conclusion of your work. Yeah. As you know, there's a lot of worlds coming in there. So is that a, about other [00:05:00] people-ness, is that internal or is that external?

Brandon Collins: Um, I think that's internal. Uh, I think I'm always looking for like a mentor. I'm always looking for guidance on what not to do and things like that.

Um, and so that's why I love talking to people. I love picking people's brains. and like I said, I love just learning new things, so I'm constantly As long as I'm, during the day, I'm learning something new. Mm-hmm. At least once, like, that's a good day. 

Kate McLeod: you say talking to other people and like hearing what not to do. Mm-hmm. So if you're listening to those ones, what does your voice sound like? what is it the master of?

Brandon Collins: That's a good question. I'm not sure. 

I've never been asked that before, so.

Kate McLeod: Well, I'm so curious because you, not only do you do so much mm-hmm. You have so much proof of it, like yes. You have live events

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: But they're recorded.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: And they're on multiple streaming platforms. Mm-hmm. You have multiple businesses, multi-facets of your artistry.

All of it has evidence out there letting the world know you do it.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, that's true. Are, are you like my therapist daughter? Like, this was like a session with [00:06:00]Alan right now?

Kate McLeod: No, I just love creative people. I just like, that's good. I, I just love creative people. Okay. And even like reading all your websites, they're all done perfectly. The verbiage is great.

Brandon Collins: Oh, thank you.

Kate McLeod: Your use of language, like you don't say writer, you show that you write. Mm. You don't say comedian, you show. And so I'm just really curious about what the navigation system is of all of that.

Brandon Collins: I mean, I've always loved writing, um, since I was a kid. Like, I used to write screenplays on a typewriter, uhhuh, because that's before we could afford a computer, 

and like the one computer we ended up getting after that wasn't much better than the type writer so I still mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I love writing 'cause it's a great way for me to express myself like sometimes, um, because I was the only child and, you know, my family made it known that like, I shouldn't have pushed back on too many things as you, you know.

Mm-hmm. Deal with whatever they tell me to do, and like, don't, you know, don't question it, and things like that. And so I had, I never really spoke up for myself and so mm-hmm. [00:07:00] Like verbally. And so that's why like when bullies would come at me, like I never really snapped back or anything like that, but I found writing was a great way for me to express myself, to express my anxiety and my sad feelings towards, being the only child having a single mother being, living differently than others around me.

so I always excelled in English. Like, English classes I always did great at, um, I could write a paper, like even if it's a specific topic or anything like that, I could write a paper pretty quickly. Like in college, I was like notorious for finishing my term papers, like a day of, because I was just like, yeah, it's easy for me.

Um, and I would get A's, it's like, it was just like weird how me putting my thoughts on paper just like came natural to the point where I thought I wanted to be an English teacher. And then I realized I suck at teaching this. it's so natural for me. It's hard for me to actually articulate the different steps to understand how

to express yourself on a page. So I ended up pivoting towards history and then, yeah, that's the whole thing.

Kate McLeod: That's so cool. So maybe it's not even an internal voice, maybe it's just like the language you write with, or, or put down on paper and then read from someone else.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: [00:08:00] Like I assume you're an avid reader?

Brandon Collins: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: I, I don't read as much as I should. but that's just 'cause like my attention span is like, it's really challenged these days, uhhuh between this device and just things around you. in New York and LA you have to keep your head on a swivel, so it's hard to fully concentrate on the books.

Mm-hmm. But, um, I also read books like, in hand. Okay. So

Kate McLeod: Question about the typewriter. Yes. Do you think having the typewriter is your first source of communication or being heard or whatever that was for you? It being a permanent and a very. Slow sort of device.

Do you think that helped with your intention or your pace or believing what you write?

Brandon Collins: I think so. I think, I definitely think so. I, I definitely remember being very, like, cautious when I wrote, um, you know, 'cause ink is like expensive. Yeah. I hated using whiteout. I thought it looked so bad on paper.

And so I was very like, deliberate. I would lose my shit if I like, had a typo or like the keys went crazy or something like that. Like, you gimme anxiety thinking about it.

Kate McLeod: Sorry.

Brandon Collins: Um, but I, I remember like writing a lot of [00:09:00] stuff and I sometimes I have to share with my mom. Sometimes I would like keep it to myself. sometimes like if I really bought it I'd share with my grandmother who, even though it's just complete madness on the page, she just was so encouraging.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: And stuff like that. But yeah, I, I have a typewriter now. Like, I don't, I barely use it, but yeah, I just, I just love typewriters and that's like my origin. You know,

Kate McLeod: it is your origin story. It feels like you should always have a typewriter Yes. In your home. It all, it's like how some people have a piano.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, yeah.

Kate McLeod: Like you need a typewriter. Exactly.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Is it away or does it have a special spot?

Brandon Collins: Uh, it's away right now. Um, my old apartment, um, before we gotta our house, which is ironic 'cause we have more space now, but it bit better like in the aesthetic. So like the typewriter is out and actually when I've had parties I would put a piece of paper in it and so people could type messages.

So there'd be some wild stuff on that paper at the end of the night after some drinking.

Kate McLeod: Do you keep all of it?

Brandon Collins: No. No. Oh no.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, I'm not a psychopath. Um-huh. But um, I mean I guess it could've kept it, but if it was just goobeldygook it was insanity. Yeah. Know. 'cause people are like few shots in and we're not talking like high shelf stuff.

We're like early twenties, like double spring [00:10:00] vodka and like maybe fireball of someone that had a promotion at work. You know what I mean? It wasn't great.

Kate McLeod: Maybe Fireball is a special occasion.

Brandon Collins: Exactly, exactly. When we're feeling like, you know, wanted to celebrate a little fireball. Yeah. Maybe absolute uhhuh.

If you want to get really crazy Uhhuh, that's about it.

Kate McLeod: Talk to me about, uh, drunk black history.

Brandon Collins: Uh, yeah. So that's a show that started, uh, about six years ago now, actually, maybe seven at this point. Um, I initially started with another comedian named Gordon, and it came about from, he was like, you know, born and raised in Newark, New Jersey.

I was born and raised in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And we both had completely different experiences like learning black history throughout our lives. Like, 'cause I grew up in the suburbs with mostly white suburbs. Mm-hmm. Like, my black history was very limited. Like the curriculum was very limited. And like my grandparents and my mom were black Republicans, so they were very much like, you know, pick yourself up by your bootstraps.

And so they found a lot of- my interpretation of how they thought of black history was, it was very, it was all about oppression and like, so down that they were like, I think [00:11:00] if I received it from their perspective, they tried to like, kind of hide some of that negativity and like, um, self-deprecation away from me that they felt like they saw in, in art.

And so that's why I didn't, I wasn't encompassed with it much at home. Like I learned about like. Prince and like Jay Brown, like Michael Jackson. Those were like, you know, and Sade. Yeah. Those would be like the only black people I really learned about consistently throughout my upbringing.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: And so, um, the idea of the show was like, we were drinking at this bar in Queens and it was at a venue where they always let you do random shows if you wanted to shout to the creek and the cave.

And um, I actually just did a show in Austin, Texas. Yeah. Drop life history there. And we did a show and it was well, really successful. A lot of people came out and it was like snowy, like the weather was terrible. Yeah. But like, people still came out like, it was like a late Thursday night and, uh, yeah.

And then started, I just started putting like together really good lineups, started booking bigger venues. Then the pandemic happened and because like I worked in an environment at [00:12:00] my day, my day job, we had a hybrid working environment, so I was familiar with Zoom. Mm-hmm. And so basically I was like, we could do a drunk black history online.

And at first I was kinda resistance towards it, but my wife was like, I think people need, this. It's June, 2020. I think you should do a June team show. And so hosted an online Juneteenth event. Hundreds of people from around the world joined, um, it was incredible. And did a, did another one later that year.

'cause you know, still restrictions and stuff. Then slowly started bringing the show back live and New York. And then that's when it started getting even more attraction. And then, um, long story short, my uh, co-host and I, we split up because he did some pretty egregious things regarding the brand and the show itself.

Um, that actually I thought compromised the show that compromised integrity, the quality, and I take producing events very, very seriously. Like I was the producer for the show, um, as much as he tried to say otherwise. Like, I've been doing this since I was high school, in high school producing shows. Um, and so.

It was really hurtful. It was a, it was a [00:13:00] tough time and for, for a moment, I thought I wouldn't do Drunk Black History anymore, but through the encouragement of a lot of folks who attended the show, a lot of people who have been supporting me for years, like, whether in the podcasting world or just in the comedy world, where like, you should pick it up, do it yourself.

And it's so scary because I always have a co-host. I'm, I'm so afraid to be on stage by myself. Mm-hmm. I feel like I just, I'm not worthy of that kind of attention. I'm not worthy of, I'm not, I'm not strong enough to hold Yeah. Hold people's attention for that long. Um, but I started doing it and occasionally I'll like have a guest co-host and things like that, but start producing it on my own, executing my own vision. And since then it's been incredible. I've been getting amazing sponsors, performing a bigger, bigger venues. They've been selling out. New York Times, just recently wrote about us. Um, we were featuring New York Comedy Festival.

Um. In talks with some comedy festivals for, you know, later this year and stuff. It's been incredible.

Kate McLeod: Congratulations.

Brandon Collins: Thank you. But it's just really hard for me to be like, oh yeah, I did, I did that. But like, you know, it's just like, oh, it's a whole Community. And then my wife's like, what [00:14:00] community? What're you talking about?

You did all this. Like, she's like, I didn't help you market. I didn't help you do this stuff. No one else did. I'm like, oh yeah, that's true. Yeah. So it's been great. Um, I'm incredibly thankful that there's an audience for it, that people are enthusiastic about black history. Um, and everywhere I go people are like, please come back and go to these cities.

Like they need it. They want it. it's incredible.

Kate McLeod: That's amazing. And I also can't wait for you to listen back to this and also have the video footage of you saying that I think you should keep listening to yourself say that that is, that's so big. I mean, that's like evidence that so many people would qualify as like platinum.

You know what I mean? Like Yeah. That's, that's big stuff there. I am so intrigued though. Something I heard.

Brandon Collins: Okay.

Kate McLeod: Is- so you grow up in a bubble with your mom and your grandma.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: You have your perspective of life.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: That you, 'cause you have your experiences, you meet someone who has the spectrum of the opposite spectrum.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: And that has to be intriguing as someone who is

Brandon Collins: always- that's how I moved to New York.

Kate McLeod: Yeah, exactly.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. I was like, I, because you know, when you grow up in Ann Arbor, like a place like Ann Arbor, it's a [00:15:00] college town, like upper middle class. Um, so people have very specific perspective. It's very liberal leaning, which is, which is fine, but like, it was also weird to be in a very liberal place and you're growing up being raised by conservatives, you know, like

I've always been intrigued to learn from about different people and different perspectives because I had to be understanding towards what my, my family was like. You know, why they had those political leanings. I didn't always agree with them, but I, like, it helped me understand. Um, but at the same token, my grandmother introduced me to the L-G-B-T-Q community through movies and television stuff and was very like, supportive of it. So I've always been like, let me just get to know about this other culture or these other people and I'll decide if, you know, I wanna continue pursuing that relationship or continue learning more. 

Kate McLeod: I think that that is just like such a good frequency that I think would be so fascinating if you believed in for yourself. Mm. You know, for being the vibe, just being like going all the ways, like trying to figure out all the things because you're not really a [00:16:00] teller person.

You're like a show or person. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, and I've seen that a lot. And you talk, you just said that you don't like being on stage by yourself. How do you do comedy as a comedian? 

Brandon Collins: how do I do comedy as comedian? Uh.

Kate McLeod: But you don't like being on stage alone?

Brandon Collins: Well, that's a, that's a new thing. Oh. I think, I think it's, ever since I got to the bigger stages, like when I came to New York, um, I mean, I was, again, I get in my own head and sometimes that, especially in my early twenties and stuff like that, where I was right outta college and kind of trying to figure out what the hell I was gonna do.

Um, I was performing a lot of standup comedy and doing a lot of standup comedy, and I was just bombing a lot. So I think that kind of got into my head Mm. A little bit of like, oh, I don't deserve to like, command the full stage for myself. I need someone else that balance me. Because I'm not like, you know, immediately like, you know, first impression, but the most charismatic or the wittiest person.

like, kind of like, I need to bounce off things in order to be witty and snappy and stuff. I play off people very, very well.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: Like, that's one thing. Um. With Drunk Black History when I started the podcast again. I used to record the [00:17:00] studio and every episode the producer would be like, bro, no matter who you bring in here, you like connect with them. Like you like have such good chemistry with whoever. And like sometimes I even know the person like fairly well. Yeah. But then others like, we're like in passing, like supporting each other via Instagram. I'm like, Hey, you wanna come do Drunk Black history? Like you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and like maybe you could have a good discussion.

It's always been great 

Kate McLeod: what do you think that is?

Brandon Collins: Um, I could say it's intuition, but I've been shown like I don't have the best judgment sometimes. So I would say it's just natural curiosity, honestly.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: I think, I think that's what it is.

Kate McLeod: And do you, where do you think the natural curiosity comes from?

Brandon Collins: I think it's just from being an only child and um, being fascinated by people. I love people watching.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: It's one of my favorite things to do. Um, and I dunno, I just love hearing how other people navigate the world. Because sometimes it's, I, especially as an only child, it could feel like the world just works this one way because that's how you see it. And there's no one really around you to like [00:18:00] affirm.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Or like you know, um, con contradict your thoughts.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And like how you're perceiving things. And so I just love to talk to other people so I can like, get as many perspectives as possible. Um, and that curiosity has helped me a lot.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: It's me, like, build relationships and even in like, you know, I might meet someone and like may not mean anything, but then years later they remember me for, you know, some opportunity or like, you know, a friend of theirs reaches out because, oh, well so and so recommend I, I reach out to you about this thing 'cause you did this. And I'm like, who the hell? Like, I haven't even talked to that person in years, but, all right.

Kate McLeod: Isn't that evidence of like, impact on people?

Brandon Collins: I don't like to give myself that much credit, but like, yes. My, yes.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Obviously, you know, um, that's so weird. Like, I'm always like, uh, like I didn't make an like, you know, I don't, no one's gonna remember me. Like no one cares. And then people, yeah. Things will just happen where I'm like, oh, I should feel possibly affirmed by this, but then I just, yeah. Take it to my, like turtle shell. Oh, I don't deserve that. Or I don't, I don't need that shine attention.

Kate McLeod: What do you think [00:19:00] happens if you know you deserve it?

Brandon Collins: Oof. Um, I think sometimes I worry about fully accepting, like an achievement I've had I've made, or like a, a goal I've met and then it gets immediately taken away. Like, uh, you know about the Shane Gillis SNL controversy where Shane Gillis was his comedian, he got booked on Saturday Night Live, like wasn't even really trying for it, but then he got fired like immediately after the announcement.

'cause he had said some problematic things in a podcast.

Kate McLeod: Okay. I, so I did not read into this, but I think I did read breaking headlines.

Brandon Collins: That is like one of my biggest fears. Like, not that I would like say anything crazy on a podcast, but they, like, I'm a gift the thing. Mm-hmm. I want, yeah. It's immediately taken away from me.

That's like a huge fear of mine. Um, just because, you know, I had a. Very traumatic thing happen to me in high school, um, where like, it kind of ODed my trust in a lot of things. Like, you know, I, I went from having a very stable home life or like what I perceive to stable, to basically sporadically living in a motel [00:20:00] throughout my senior year in high school to not knowing if I'm gonna be able to afford college, to finding out I can't afford college.

But my grandfather would step in to help because- even though people had stolen from 'em- and like all these things happened, um. They were just terrifying and, you know, just gave me a lot of anxiety about control. And I think I just was always hesitant after that to kind of set myself up for the biggest goals I had in mind.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Because I was worried that it would be taken away immediately, or like things would go sideways and just destroy the whole thing. And You know, I, that's just trauma that I'm still working through it took me a long time to talk about it. Um. It was just, it is lot. And like, you know, that's probably one of the reasons why I do comedy.

Yeah. And I write, you know, a lot of comedy, um, to kind of address that trauma, but like in a, in a way that's palatable for, for people.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. Is that, I was gonna ask, is that 'cause of, like, of course you would feel that way, that's a massive shift in your entire world. Um, is comedy the way of dealing with that?

Brandon Collins: 'cause comedy has punchlines for sure. I mean, [00:21:00] comedy is just such a good, like, you know, just provides so much relief for, for you, for the audiences and stuff. Yeah. Like, I remember I got into comedy, I went to go see, um, so in Ann Arbor, Michigan, there's like several high schools. Um, and there's uh, two big high schools pioneering Huron.

I went to Community high school, which is basically like third, one of the first charter schools basically. 

Kate McLeod: Okay. 

Brandon Collins: Uh, it's called an alternative school, but it's a charter school, right? Mm-hmm. And um, that's where I took all my classes, but then I would go like to shows and like do extracurriculars at Pioneer.

So Pioneer, I rode Crew, so I did like sports for a little bit. Um, yeah, it was, it was crazy.

Kate McLeod: Wait crew's crazy.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. Crew is crazy. And it's also a sport my people were forced to play. It wasn't a good, I don't know why I did it. I think I was just trying to be, you know, attention and stuff like that. I'm like, let me think of the one most random thing a black dude could do. And it was crew. And it sucked. 'cause when you do crew, like no one told me that it's mostly just running, you're conditioning your body for endurance. And I have asthma. Like, well, I if found later on [00:22:00] I have like a genetic disorder that like replicates things of asthma. It's, yeah. Not exactly asthma, but yeah. Man, that sucked.

Kate McLeod: Oh my God.

Brandon Collins: It's a nightmare.

Kate McLeod: It's so funny. Those are two. Sports I was interested in. Okay. I didn't do crew because they only kept telling me I could be a coxswain. I was such a tiny little human.

Brandon Collins: That's what my coach was trying to get me to do before I, I quit.

Kate McLeod: Oh my God. I was like, I, I have to run the whole, I have to do all the conditioning.

Brandon Collins: You have to do everything with them.

Kate McLeod: And then I just yell numbers. Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And you steer and you steer a boat. But

Kate McLeod: yeah, no,

Brandon Collins: it took me a while to get good at it. Like my coach is insisted on me being a coxin. 'cause he was one, he was like, you fit, you know, size wise, Uhhuh. It's perfect. Uhhuh. He was like two, like, and this is what he saw my mom on.

He is like, there's gonna be a lot of opportunities scholarship wise if you stick with this. Um, I kind of took that for granted, but I was also like, I got the, the theater bug. Mm-hmm. Um. Yeah, but I, I was actually getting pretty good, even though I almost did crash, uh, the woman's uh, uh, varsity team when I first was like, I got distracted and I was like, steering. I steer our boat into them and it was a, it was fucking crazy. [00:23:00] But, um, yeah,

Kate McLeod: it was, was so short lived.

Brandon Collins: I mean, I did it for, uh, two and a half seasons. Mm-hmm. I did it for a full year and a half.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. I did all freshman year and then half of sophomore year, and then I saw, um, a musical. Like, I forgot a musical.

It was, and my friend, my friend Billy was in it and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. Like, maybe I'll audition for musicals at Pioneer. Like it's, you know, I'll just go there after school at community. And so I started doing theater and then I learned that, uh, the budget for the theater department was so big.

They hired, uh, like a local comedian to teach high school kids sketch, improv and standup comedy. So there's a comedy group. And so I went to that show and I saw this guy, Sean Gray, shout out to Sean. He's one of my best friends, uh, still. Um, I saw him before him. He's like this light skinned dude with a big afro.

And I thought he was the funniest dude on the planet. And this is a guy like, you know, I grew up on SNL Yeah. Like Eddie Murphy, Chris Rocks and embed and stuff. So I love comedy. I've always loved comedy. I've been. I never thought I could perform it.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: I never, you [00:24:00] know, I, I have funny thoughts and I always make my NA laugh, but like, I never was like, I want to do anything like this. And I saw that. I'm like, I gotta, I gotta join this club. And so I found out when the rehearsals were, I went and met the, like, you know, the guy who ran it and I met Sean. I was like, dude, I'm gonna write so many sketches for you. And I, and he, he's like, who the fuck is this dude

Kate McLeod: Uhhuh?

Brandon Collins: Um, and he still brings that up 'cause he's like, he tells my wife, he's like, Brandon knew exactly what he wanted to do.

Um, so long story short, during, uh, the year, senior year in high school, like, so I was doing sketch comedy, learn how to do standup and stuff. My senior year we were like the pop most popular kids in school. Like, I'm, I'm gonna write a movie about this. And uh, the guy who was a local comedian, he got like insane. And he basically was like, all right, so we're used to you guys writing your sketches and performing them yourselves and doing standup, but for this coming show. I'm gonna write everything. There's gonna be no standup, no extra stuff. I'm gonna write it and you guys can perform it. And it was like, think about like a 50-year-old man in like 2003 writing like a, a one at play [00:25:00] about like reality tv, but it's like the most corniest, low hanging fruit jokes. And one, and one of the like, uh, comedian, like, you know, kids, they were like supposed to be some kind of creepy pedophile, almost like a Beavis and butt. It was really weird. And

Kate McLeod: this sounds like a slow moving car crash.

Brandon Collins: It was so bad. It was. And. Nothing will ever compare to like bombing for an hour and a half in front of like your peers and like your girlfriend and in the audience. And so, yeah, and my mom. And so it was just so bad. Yeah. And so we all quit like all like me, Sean, the co-president. 'cause at that time I'd been promoted to co-president 'cause I was a senior in high school. We all quit 'cause we're like, that was a disaster and fell into a deep depression. 'cause I'm like living in a motel. I don't have my comedy outlet anymore. Um, my college prospects were weren't great 'cause I didn't do the best on the SATs. Um, and so like, I just had like a weird like re like, you know, not a resume, but what's it called when you submit portfolio or whatever the college is like,

Kate McLeod: oh, um, applications.

Brandon Collins: It was like, I'm just very involved in extracurricular activities. I had glowing recommendations, but my grades were shit if it wasn't [00:26:00] English, like it was all over the place. Right.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: And so I'm like, what the fuck am I gonna do? And then, um, community high school had a theater that they never used. And I remember one day we were in there for like a assembly and I'm like. Did I do a show here?

Kate McLeod: Oh, so you're like a producer. Producer.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. One of my teachers were like, yeah, like you in theory you could rent it out and like, you just gotta get like an adult to su supervise. And I was like, okay. And so I just got the comedy group together and like reassemble and we did our own independent show.

It was the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life to this day. But that was the beginning of me, like producing and getting into to comedy. I don't know how I got into this, the story.

Kate McLeod: I don't mind. I heard some great things. Can I reflect something back to you?

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: So biggest rug pull from your creative life, right? Rugs pulled out from under you. Everything changes.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Go into depression. Feel the feelings. it's a deep Well.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: Then you get up the courage to find another option for yourself [00:27:00] that leads to the rest of your career. And you're still worried that you can't-

Brandon Collins: I know.

Kate McLeod: -Get yourself. No, no, no!, but I just- so artistically um, it's hard to be an actor.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

It's hard to be an artist. It's hard to be someone who puts your humanity on the line for other people to witness just to see their own. It's like a selfless act. Right?

Hundred percent.

Kate McLeod: To like, do something like this. Um, but there's also the business side of it, which is capital F Fucked.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: And so we are all now like reinventing - and you are too - spaces of like how these things work in a way that's actually meant to like support artists.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: Right?

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: There's something I believe in, in an artistic life that there is like artistic karma and the moments in my life when the rug was ripped out from under me and I was afraid I would never do my art again.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: Those were so deep, I think I've paid my karma.

Brandon Collins: Okay.

Kate McLeod: You know?

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Where it's like if someone told you that the karma, the artistic deep hole, it costs $10 and you believe me, and then I say, give me [00:28:00] $10 and you've paid it off. would that change your confidence at all towards moving forward?

Brandon Collins: I think I'm getting there.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: I definitely think I'm getting there. That's why I listen to, if I'm not reading, I'll listen to podcasts usually.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Um, I listen to a lot of music when I'm writing, but I've been listening to a lot of PO podcasts lately of like creatives that have like had, you know, a lot of ups and downs in their careers or people you wouldn't think have had downs.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: And hear them talk about their hardest moments and toughest times. And like, I interview a lot of like actors and creatives and I always ask them about their, you know, toughest days on set

Kate McLeod: mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Or things like that. Um, and so hearing those stories has helped me realize that there's going to be a rebound period.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: There's gonna be ebbs and flows. That's just the acceptance of

Kate McLeod: mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Being in the entertainment business. Right?

I think after that, you know, senior experience, I had a hard time allowing myself to, to deal with failure, to deal with pain. 'cause it's such a scary thing, especially when like, you feel like you can't control what's happening to you.

Um, and I grew up somewhat naive. I [00:29:00] was a little sheltered, I'm not gonna lie.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Growing up like, you know, the way I was raised, um,

Kate McLeod: hey, that's what comes with the suburb. Like, you know what I mean?

Brandon Collins: Exactly. And, and so like, uh, it took me a long time to kind of realize, okay, life comes with pain, life coats with unexpected events, and you can't be scared every, all day, every day because you're never gonna meet people. You're not gonna do the things that make you happy. Um, so like now, like I, when I have those feelings, um, I know what they are, I know how they're manifesting and I'm able to reinforce positive thoughts, positive thinking to,

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: To get them out and, you know, remind myself like, you deserve to be where you're at and things will work out.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: You know, I told my wife at the beginning of this year, I'm like, I need you to believe with me that like, things are gonna work out this year. There's gonna be a lot of shit that's thrown at us. A lot of shit we're going through. We're going through a lot of stuff right now. I'm like, we're gonna get through it and we're gonna be even more successful than, you know, we have been in the past.

Kate McLeod: There's something about a partnership of

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: Believe- hood. You know?

Brandon Collins: For sure.

Kate McLeod: Like, lean into my delusion. my [00:30:00] fiance and I, I said something, about, like my perception of reality, right? I was like, I need you to be delusional with me. And he's like, I'm a realist.

I said, great. Change your perception of reality. Like, yeah. Just bend it a little bit. Um, and I think that-

Brandon Collins: that's funny. That's funny.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. It's like, I'm a realist. Okay, cool. What's real?

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm. I think- that's funny because I, I became a realist when all that shit happened in high school.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. Survival.

Brandon Collins: Before that I was a fan. Like, I remember my friend Sean used to say, like, he's like, you're, you're not on this planet. Mm-hmm. Like, you live in a different atmosphere. Um, 'cause that's where my ideas would come from. And I'm like, the only child I was raised on movies and television, like

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Always thinking fantastical. And then my reality came and hit me in the fucking face, uh, when all that stuff happened senior year and it was like back to back, like betrayals and just fucked up things that happened to me where I had to become a realist.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Because I'm like, can't keep my head in the clouds anymore. Um, and that kind of, you know, killed my inner child a little bit and I've been getting it back. I mean getting, you know, 'cause I realized that like my creative ideas, like [00:31:00] whatever the stream conscious that comes out, that's what makes me unique. That's what gets me these opportunities that I've been having. Um, and as much as I try sometimes to stifle that, like that's what I need to bring out even more.

Kate McLeod: Because it feels better. Right?

Brandon Collins: Absolutely. It sucks 'cause it's so vulnerable.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: It's so, like, like I did a show last night and I was finally doing some weird stuff that I've always wanted to kind of try out and like, I was just being silly and it just felt good. People were laughing like with it. I'm like, oh, okay. Like, this is okay.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: I didn't, I can be myself.

Kate McLeod: There was. So I forget, I'll have to tag it in the show notes who said this, but, um, fear is excitement without breath.

Brandon Collins: Mm.

Kate McLeod: And I'm reading, I've read that out of a book yesterday called, uh, the Big Leap. Okay. Which I'm reading. It's by oh my gosh, so bad with names. I'm just gonna have to tag those.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. I'm terrible with quotes.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. But it's basically saying, I'm, basically what he's saying in this book, in the introduction at least that really struck me, was that, um, we have all these nerve endings and these systems in our bodies, [00:32:00] um, to detect fear and just to keep us, like a, literally as a species just to keep ourselves alive.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Like a whole nervous system and all these feelings to detect these things so that we know to protect ourselves and stay alive.

Brandon Collins: Fight or flight. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. So as we can hear from outside, we live in New York City.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: Right? So like we don't need those primal instincts anymore, but we still do need an intune-ness with our body.

Brandon Collins: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: And so we actually aren't in tune or very in tune 'cause we're evolving to be. And so we're just at the start of this.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: With the nervous system within us that makes us feel good. Which is why we have a threshold of when something is good. we don't practice or participate in having an abundance of feeling good because feeling bad keeps us where we are.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: And it's just a biological thing that we do that we just have to like, break and go to. So what is your threshold for feeling good?

Brandon Collins: My threshold for feeling good. It's, uh, ooh. It's getting, like I said, it's getting better every day, but if I had to hold like a [00:33:00] hot pipe in my hand.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. Uhhuh

Brandon Collins: right now I'm at like, for a threshold for being positive on myself. Uhhuh, it'd be a hard five seconds. And then I'm like, all right. That's, that's, it's, it's still very fleeting.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: It's, um, but it is getting better. And you know, I think what. What's weird about, it's like, you know, and especially in this business like you, when you get praise, you have to accept it. Otherwise you make it weird.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And I'm trying really hard not to make it weird. 'cause I'm having like pretty important people now giving me praise.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: And I'm like, be weird about it. And my wife's like, stop being so fucking weird. I'm like,

Kate McLeod: be excited. Be weird. You acclimate like we acclimatize all the time, right?

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: Like that is just like every new circumstance we adapt to, we are just like little creatures of adaption.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: And so be weird and then don't be weird.

Brandon Collins: Well, yeah, I know. But it's also like, I kind of like doing my own thing. I think it's the only child

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Syndrome. Like, I don't mind making people feel awkward. It's almost like they're not uncomfortable. Cause sometimes I think that's funny, but also 'cause people make you feel awkward. but I [00:34:00] used to do, I used to do Irish exits.

Kate McLeod: Just leave. I'm the queen of those.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. I used to do those and I love them. 'cause people would be like, where did Brandon go?

And eventually it's like, oh, like we'll see Brandon tomorrow, or something like that. cause I'm just like, if I, if I'm over a place, like I'm just kinda like, ah, I, I'll go. I'll head out and stuff and I think, um, I like still having that independence. That's where I feel very centered.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Where I'm still able to do my own thing. Um, I dunno how that's gonna work when like my wife and I finally start having a family and stuff like that.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: I think it'll be fine. I think it'll just be about I wanna be around my kids

Kate McLeod: I can't wait for you to listen to the Dave by episode 'cause he talks about dad.

Brandon Collins: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Which I think is so amazing.

Brandon Collins: Okay. Okay.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. About being a dad in the industry.

Brandon Collins: Awesome. Yeah. I'm like, that's, well that's what's interesting is like, when I moved, moved to LA my wife couldn't go for the first like five months or so. 'cause she was doing, um, she was preparing for pretty extensive surgery. Right? So she couldn't go, uh, she had, 'cause she had to do a bunch of pre-op appointments and things like that. And so it was really tough being out there by myself. And mind you, I've been with my wife, basically every day except for like the off week, once [00:35:00] the pandemic led up, like, starting in like April, 2020 when like things locked down. Like, 'cause we were together every day Until we could not be. and so it was really tough just being away from her, being away from my friends and stuff like that. And LA's a pretty lonely place if you don't know anybody.

Kate McLeod: Yes.

Brandon Collins: It's like I knew some comedians, but like they're all in different places. I'm in the valley, which apparently like no one ever goes out to the valley

Kate McLeod: as a native Californian. Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. And so, um, I remember like telling my wife, I'm like, yeah. So if I'm like going to do like a movie, like you and our kids are coming with me, like I can't be away from y'all.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Like this is a Yeah. That's not just gimme a heads up. That's gonna be our life. And she's like, I'm all for like, she's fine with that. Yeah. Um, 'cause she also likes to travel and stuff, so. Um, and we're educators, so like the homeschooling thing, that's not a problem because that's just, I need, I need, I need that community. I need at least you around for this stuff.

Kate McLeod: LA can be lonely when you don't know anybody because you spend so much time in the car, New York, you spend time on the subway. That's the biggest thing I've noticed the difference of like two and a half hours by [00:36:00] myself in the car. I love that time. I can luxuriate in that time.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: But I also can feel, you know, alone if I want to and shut off on the subway. But I also know that there's people like all around me.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: So people catching onto your success and people catching onto your artistry that you already know about.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: Why is that weird?

Brandon Collins: I dunno, I'm just so hard on myself. I'm like, no one, no one should be paying attention to you. And also, you know, occasionally, like I get RA and stuff where people are like, oh, Brandon's such a, you know, a dork. Or you know, he has such weird thoughts. But then like I have, people are like, yeah I think that shit's funny. Or like, you know, I, I think like Brandon and stuff.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: It's just so weird to me.

which is so ironic 'cause I got into this business. and when I initially like wanted to be in entertainment, I wanted to be an actor when I was a kid, I used to dream about being on all that and having my own show, like Kenan Kel and doing things like that. And then, I did theater and I was kinda like, this is really weird.

There's a lot of weird people in acting. And then I got into comedy and I'm like, oh, this could be a thing. But then everything that happened at the end of high school [00:37:00] happened and I moved to New York and my grandmother was always like, I thought you were just gonna go, I thought you were using college as a like opportunity to move outta Ann Arbor, but then you were gonna do that full-time.

I didn't know you were really gonna get your degrees. She's like, I love it for you. But I was like, in my head, you know, my grandfather always told me like, give yourself options. And so the realist to me was like, you should get your degree. You know, like do the at and comedy stuff, but don't fully invest in that.

Get your degree so you have a backup plan. And then of course when I graduated undergrad, that was 2008, economic downturn, everything's falling apart,

Kate McLeod: fun.

Brandon Collins: So I immediately went for my master's degree. So it was like, let me get some extra safety on top of this degree. And um, I. Yeah, it was, it was weird.

'cause like I was only had like one toe in being like a full-time creative and like doing the comedy thing full-time. Um, not saying like, I regret not doing it earlier 'cause I had a crazy network. I've met so many people on becoming, doing my thing part-time in comedy. But, um, [00:38:00] now I'm kind of like in this place where I wanna do the creative stuff full time.

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: But the way the world is right now, that's not really viable. So let me, how do I balance that with trying to go back into doing education, full-time, corporate stuff? But then Neiman, that's a different landscape now, so.

Kate McLeod: Okay. Well let's forget viability.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Viability for terms of this conversation don't exist. Okay. So you wanna take this full time?

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: What does that look like? Viability doesn't exist.

Brandon Collins: What's that look like? Okay.

Kate McLeod: Um, like and viability into your business

Brandon Collins: Understood.

Kate McLeod: Is what I mean.

Brandon Collins: Understood.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Like, I mean, um, being able to do this full time, it means producing, hosting events constantly. Like I want to have an event every week to be able to do, whether that's Drunk Black History. I'm working on some new show ideas, things like that. Like I, I kind of just wanna constantly be busy. Um, and then writing and developing films. my end game is to be a film producer and director. That's my end game. That's the dream I've had since I was six years old and I saw Jurassic [00:39:00] Park. Okay. You know, and I've, I've took me a long time to circle back to that. 'cause I always just kinda like, that's not possible. That's insane. And then, um, I remember I started like, this is a, this is a story I tell a lot on podcasts when I was in the Universal Writers Program.

Kate McLeod: which thousands of people applied for- Yes.

Brandon Collins: Yes, yes. When I was in that one day, I was waiting for a meeting with an executive, and this gentleman comes up to me, this older gentleman, he says, Hey, yo, man, do you know where I can find a bathroom? And Jurassic Park's my favorite movie of all time, right? And I'm like, I immediately recognize this gentleman. I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, I'll show you where the bathroom is, sir. And I'm walking him down this hallway at the end of the hallway. It's a Jurassic Park poster, and the gentleman showing to the bathroom is John Williams. And that was the moment where I was like, oh, shit. I'm kind of doing it. Like, I'm like, I have my foot in the door now. Like I'm actually, I have this opportunity. I've been incredibly thankful. Mm-hmm. And I'm constantly remembering that moment because it helps push me forward and know that I'm eventually gonna get to that dream job I want with the [00:40:00] director and producing and stuff like that.

Kate McLeod: Before I continue,

Brandon Collins: yes.

Kate McLeod: I need to say this to you. Please, for yourself

Brandon Collins: yes.

Kate McLeod: On your typewriter, write that scene where literally your realist

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Meets your creative.

Brandon Collins: Mm.

Kate McLeod: Like literally the man stepped out of the poster and was so mundane as you showing him the bathroom while you're waiting to meet an executive. And you just got into this writer's program.

Brandon Collins: Yep.

Kate McLeod: Sir.

Brandon Collins: This is, it was pretty insane. I like, I remember finishing my first draft of the script for Universal. I was in the conference room and I was staring at a poster of Jaws and Spielberg's my favorite director, and I'm like,

Kate McLeod: of course.

Man, this is fucking, you know, like that, that program wrapped up in like kind of unfortunate circumstances, but like, I, I would do it all over again. Operating my life in less than a month, quitting my full-time job. Like I would do it all over again. Like, it was incredible. Do you let things be incredible 

Brandon Collins: It's pretty fleeting. It comes back, you know, it ebbs and flows and stuff.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Um,

Kate McLeod: sorry,

Brandon Collins: but I can, I can't be a Debbie Downer, so that's about my own success.

it's weird.

Kate McLeod: I'm a middle child, so I have both older sister and younger [00:41:00] sister energy, and I feel like my younger sister energy is like on right now, like poking.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Where I'm like, do you? Yeah. I just, I hope you, when you listen back to this,

Brandon Collins: I know.

Kate McLeod: Listen to yourself. The hype is real.

Brandon Collins: I appreciate this.

Kate McLeod: Oh no, of course.

Brandon Collins: I appreciate I, um, it's funny 'cause next week I'm going to meet up with a bunch of old, like former direct reports like that I used to manage at this coding bootcamp. And they used to tell me that I was very, like, I was a very serious boss, but they always could tell I cared. And that when it was time to kind of like, not let loose, but like be rewarded for hard work. I was very generous with that. I was always caring about the team's wellbeing and how people worked with each other, and trying to be as mindful as possible about creating, you know, fostering a positive working environment. And I remember like, being like so uncomfortable hearing people praise me like, like that.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And like, it was so uncomfortable. But now, now I'm like re like, you know, positive energy every day, positive reinforcement. I have a lot of like, mantras in my, my basement, you know, a lot of positive reinforcement and like quotes and [00:42:00] all kinds of stuff. There's one from Tyler to Creator. It's like, it's like motherfuckers always gonna think you're weird and like that you do weird shit until you find other people that like that weird shit.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: You know? I mean,

Kate McLeod: and also think, just,

Brandon Collins: I'm paraphrasing, but, but the

Kate McLeod: think of the way that numbers work, like there are so many people in the world.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: You'll find your tribe. And we have the internet.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Thank God. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Like, you'll find your vibe so long as you just like keep being true to it.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm finding success now. Like, especially like outside of just drunk black history and stuff like that. Like as a writer, as a, as a host, like I'm booking- started book, like corporate gigs and stuff as comedian and things like that. You know, things are moving in the right direction. They may not be as a world uhhuh, um, which is sometimes how I found success. Like 2020 ended up being a very like, successful year for me. It was a very bizarre mm-hmm. Like, you know, we're all locked down and like terrible things are happening During a pandemic. Um, and also like with racial justice, um, and things like that. But, you know, I, I got a lot of opportunity like being you like kind of working through [00:43:00] a virtual world, so to speak.

I became part of the African American Film Critics Association 'cause like I was just looking at other opportunities where I could, uh, just find community or something like that uhhuh being Monroe joined it and within a month of joining the membership, they were like, Hey, do you wanna interview, uh, Samuel Jackson? And I'm like,

Kate McLeod: yes,

Brandon Collins: of course. Yeah. I'll do that.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Um, and then I found other, like, like-minded, like black film critics that love movies as much as I do and like nerd out about like really specific facts and trivia like I do. And that was incredibly fulfilling. And then I just got closer with my wife. I got closer with my, my friends. Um, it was just a very, very positive time year from me. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: That's good. I'm glad. Just make that cocoon for yourself when you can and give yourself those things, whether it's like you're giving it to yourself now or to your younger self who needed it more.

Brandon Collins: A hundred percent.

Kate McLeod: You know what I mean? Um, I wanna go back to the dream.

Brandon Collins: Okay. Okay. Or end game is the, the end game.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. That's what I'm calling it because I, [00:44:00] you know, 'cause I like to do so many different things.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: I'm like, what's the one thing I could do every day for the rest of my life?

Kate McLeod: Okay.

Brandon Collins: What's something that would make me feel a hundred percent fulfilled?

Kate McLeod: Let's call this the frame.

Brandon Collins: Okay.

Kate McLeod: Then it's a big picture and you can just move the frame. Got it.

Brandon Collins: Okay.

Kate McLeod: So it's, call it the frame. A show a week. Writing, developing films, directing?

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: The show a week is whether that's,

Brandon Collins: it's just the scratch itch of performing uhhuh, um, you know, exercising, flexing that muscle, um, and just engaging with people.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Again, I love being around people. I love it. Like talking to people, learning about them and stuff like that. Very inquisitive.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. I can, I can tell. Is that the only child?

Brandon Collins: Uh, yeah. I mean, I think it's also just like, I want to like be around people.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: You know, like, I remember I used to have friends come over to my house and when they'd leave, I'd be emotionally devastated.

It was so bad. Like, and like my mom would just raise her eyebrow, look at me like I'm tearing up. Like, I guess my friend Derek's driving away and shit. And even now, like when I, like, I have a big [00:45:00] friend gathering or something like that, that I'm excited about. And after it's done, I'm like. Little sad.

Kate McLeod: Oh yeah.

Brandon Collins: When my friends are going home.

Kate McLeod: Oh no. I'm always the one at the end of the night too, who's like, no, I wanna keep talking. And I was like, no, what's up? It's like, alright, fine.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: Um, what kind of team supports you doing this? This is not a one man show. How many people are supporting?

Brandon Collins: I mean, my wife, hands down. Um, she is my number one cheerleader supporter. she encourages me to do things that terrify me. Mm-hmm. Um, even for the writer's program, like the prospect of moving to LA in less than a month, like she was so into it. And it's funny because. She's like, why am I more excited than you? You clearly thought you might get it because you've been saving for like a year.

Like, I legit had like money saved for a year, like

Kate McLeod: wow.

Brandon Collins: For this transition. But yet still, I was like, I'm not gonna get it. And so my wife's like, we're gets to go to la and I'm like, yay. She's like, be, be excited. And so, um, I love her. She's amazing. She, she reads everything that I do. She's the first to read it. She's the last to read it. Um, she's there with me, backstage at Drunk Black History. [00:46:00]She's reading the audience. She's constantly giving me suggestions on how to make the audience experience better. She's kinda like that. She's my perspective of the audience at all my shows I've been doing since 

You know, we started dating in my mid twenties.

She's known me a long time. She's seen me as a performer in theater. Like we both did theater shows together, like We were actually in a dance. We were in a few dances together. 'cause there's this annual dance show at St. John's. and she was in one of my dances, which was actually about like, the different women I was dating at the time.

It was to like Justin Timberlake. It was so

Kate McLeod: That's really funny.

Brandon Collins: So, oh my God. I still think about it. Um, but she was in that dance and so she's, she's known how my mind works for a long time.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And so I always trust her judgment, her opinion when I, you know, ask her to critique things or, okay.

Kate McLeod: So she's like,

Brandon Collins: gimme feedback.

Kate McLeod: She's like, she's like your sole support. Then I. I, and I'm soul. I mean, I mean your soul. Yeah. You know?

Brandon Collins: Yeah. I would say, I mean my, um, my god, my God, kids who are a close second. Mm-hmm. I love that. Um, NAS, uh, Yella, Isaiah. Um, but yeah, [00:47:00] she's, she's the number one for sure. She's the first mention that any awards, recognition, stuff like that.

Kate McLeod: As she should be.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: That's what you deserve. but when I say support I mean If you're producing a show a week, if you're writing, if you're directing, if you're developing films, you're doing all this. Um, what does the support, I mean, like who, how big is your team? Do you know what I mean?

Brandon Collins: Oh, uh, yeah.

Um, I think it depends on what the project is. I mean, I have some people that I frequently collaborate with or that I, you know, I trust, you know, in regards to like who I might, um, want to shoot something or like, you know, uh, be on like the lineup of a show

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And things like that. Um,

Kate McLeod: but like for the frame, if you were like, in your ideal frame, you're like, this is what it looks like to be able to sustain all this and do all this.

Brandon Collins: Mm,

Kate McLeod: mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, I mean, I would have to have like a lot of people I trust in regards to helping me find content, helping me find talent and stuff like that. There's a few people I trust in the industry that like I could ask 'em like, Hey, who's a good comedian?

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: I should [00:48:00] check out or, uh, 'cause I do that now, like, for, for the tour dates.

Kate McLeod: Yeah. You already do that.

Brandon Collins: like, I have a Boston Drunk Black History show coming up, so I'm reaching out to folks who've done the show before and be like, Hey, you know, any people in Boston that I should consider for this show?

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Um, 'cause I don't wanna just go blindly reaching out to comedians that are like, you know, radio personalities 'cause I need to know what I'm getting.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: At this point. Especially 'cause, you know, as. Great. As the show has been going and as much acclaim as we've been getting, it just takes one bad show to kind of torpedo that goodwill and um, to sour people's opinion on the show. 'cause I take it very seriously 'cause it is important of it's black history, right?

Kate McLeod: but you also are allowed to have a bad show too.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, I know. Like I, in Austin, like we had, like, I had, uh, some trivia and I got like, I guess, uh, the information I got online, like had a different local spot and so there was like one factoid that like really bothered some people and I was like, I mean, I've just started doing trivia, but I, I hear this feedback, I definitely absorb it.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Like, I'll make sure to Crosstrek and triple check all the, the facts I put in the [00:49:00] slideshows and the trivia

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And stuff. Um, so you're right. Like sometimes you, you make a mistake or

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Something happens.

Kate McLeod: It's not the end, it's not the end of the world

Brandon Collins: exactly. But, um, I'm just very precious about it. I'm very like, of course, I, I always want people to have a good time to make sure that they feel like they weren't robbed in regards to any, like, you know, shortchanged in any way. Because I've been in so many shows where you could tell the audience is like, what the hell was happening? Or like, I just bamboozled, you know, they feel bamboozled, you know?

Kate McLeod: But do in your heart of hearts believe that it's possible with you being as precious as you are, that like people could feel bamboozled? And if they did, would you necessarily agree with them?

Brandon Collins: I'm, I'm getting, I'm accepting that too.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Like, you know, especially like when you, when you do things that reach thousands of people, like you have to accept that some people are just not gonna like it for whatever reason.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Especially in an internet age.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: And so, yeah, like I, you know, there might be one or two people, I, no matter how much I'm thinking the show is killing it. They're like, this is this, this ain't it. Or this is, you know, whack or something like that.

Kate McLeod: That just makes me think, my [00:50:00] career as an actor. I was in the training phase, and um, I had been wanting ever since I had become an actor, and I still have this little voice in my head. I wanted someone to come outta the woodwork and tell me that I sucked. And to say, you're never gonna make this, you're never gonna make it here. You're not talented. I wanted someone to just hand my ass to me. And I kept saying that in school. Like, no one's ever done that. No one's ever done that. Finally, I'm studying in London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts, and this professor comes up to me and she gets right in my face, like in the middle of rehearsal, and she tells me that I'm not talented and I'm not pretty, and I look, and the second part was just mean. Um, but I looked her dead in the face and I said, you're lying.

Brandon Collins: Mm.

Kate McLeod: And so I think of this anecdote because when I do have that imposter syndrome, and I think, you know, okay, so what if someone does come to me and say, you're not talented. You're not gonna make it in this industry. Okay? So it happened, and literally in that moment I was like, you're wrong. Like, that's not right, you know? 'cause I think that's just the manifestation of anxiety is

Brandon Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: And [00:51:00] control.

Brandon Collins: You have to be assertive too.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Like you have, like, you know, it's, um, I definitely tried like, you know, practicing what I preach.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: 'Cause my initial instinct is like, that's, that's what you should be doing. Should be doing.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: You know, standing up yourself.

Kate McLeod: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: Right. Um, 'cause sometimes I'll watch like Top Chef and a chef like that's in the bottom will be like, yeah, it just wasn't good today. And I'm like, don't do that!

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Like stand by it always. You know what I mean? Like, bless you.

Kate McLeod: Ah, thank you much.

Brandon Collins: Um, maybe things don't work out, but, um, I'm definitely like, I'm better at that now. Like that's something that I've greatly improved on the past year, I would say.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: 'Cause um, yeah, 2023 was a mu 2023 to early 2024 was really rough.

Kate McLeod: I bet.

Brandon Collins: Um, for a while. Um.

Kate McLeod: I, I don't mean I bet. Like I know. I'm like, ugh, I could could see it.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. It was just, I just went through a lot of transition, you know, the Riders strike happened, like

Kate McLeod: mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: And that actually disrupted the end of the rider's program at Universal. Like we couldn't have a formal ending. And I had a few meetings booked up at studios and stuff like that for pitches.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And it all went away overnight. [00:52:00] Um,

Kate McLeod: oh my gosh. So just traumatizing you all over again.

Brandon Collins: Yeah. But at that time, like, it was, you know what that was, and this is where sometimes the realest in me can really fuck in my head, is I can sometimes see a car crash, like a train crash coming, like now because of the things that happened in high school, I kind of look at if, if my gut is saying like, this doesn't seem right. Or like, I think this might pan out bad.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: I've been, I've been proven more right on that than, than not, like for instance, like, uh, the coding bootcamp I was telling you about

Kate McLeod: mm-hmm.

Brandon Collins: We were acquired by WeWork. I remember the first meeting we had with like the founders in WeWork. They came into our school, like I met Adam Newman and like Miguel and like all that shit. Jared Lettel, spot on, by the way, his performance of Adam Newman. Um, and they're talking about WeWork and I'm like, guys, I used to do real estate randomly in grad school. Like, this doesn't make any sense. Like they, they rent, they rent out office space and then they rent that space into smaller pieces and they're like, we're a tech company. I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. Why do they want a coding bootcamp? And everyone's like, Brandon, you're just being a naysayer, being so pessimistic. [00:53:00] Two years later, that shit crashed to the ground. It was imploded. Right?

Kate McLeod: I think it's totally safe to use that If you have that sensory rod up already, use it when you need to you just don't need to use it all the time.

Brandon Collins: Well, I headed with the rider strike. Yeah. I was like, mm-hmm. I'm like, I'm talking to people I know in the industry. I know a lot of comedy writers. I'm out in LA at this point and I'm like, I'm going to, 'cause I'm also gonna screen 'cause I'm a film critic, so I'm going to different studios like on the weekends and I'm picking people's brains from what they were hearing. And everyone's like, yeah, it's probably gonna be a strike. And then I'm like asking our like, program directors. I'm like, what should we do if there's a strike? 'cause that's like, potentially gonna be towards the end of our program. They're like, don't worry about it! You're being so negative! And like even the meeting I had scheduled at Paramount, they're like, ah, don't worry about the strike. It's not gonna happen. And then,

Kate McLeod: and then what happens?

Brandon Collins: Shut down for months.

Kate McLeod: Months.

Brandon Collins: And so for me that just, that just remind me like always give yourself options. Like always have things, you know, just always have a way to pivot.

but now I'm trying to think of ways to pivot, but stay within the industry.

Kate McLeod: Yeah.

Brandon Collins: Because back then I'm like, how do I pivot back to full-time corporate ed tech [00:54:00] work?

I think I've been proven, especially the past, like few months, like that's not really viable anymore. Like, 'cause the EdTech space is just in such a weird place 'cause of the economy, because of automation, AI advancements and stuff. And so now I'm like, I think the, the world is telling me to just stick with entertainment.

I think that's just the universe telling me that. Right?

Um, and that's incredibly scary.

it's not financially stable and, you know, because of everything in high school, like, it's so scary for me to be in that kind of precarious financial space.

But like, you know, I was walking here to come do this podcast with you and I'm like, what? This is an incredible life. I get to just talk to a friend about life in the creative mind. And then later today I'm gonna watch, you know, a movie with my Medium Popcorn fan base and make fun of a 1989 movie with Fred Savage.

There's a hell of a lot worse ways to spend your Friday.

Kate McLeod: And also you're creating, and you're, you're people and you clearly, you so clearly need people, right?

Brandon Collins: Yes. Yes.

Kate McLeod: And that's great. And that's great to know. And the thing is that's also great is that you have them, so you have [00:55:00] this massive network.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm.

Kate McLeod: So you already know, 'cause I just asked you, I said, okay, so the frame, you know, or the end goal, um, a show a week, writing and developing films, directing. And then I said to you, okay, so what would your support team look like? And you started saying, okay, well in this network I have so and so and so and so, and I'd ask them.

So what that says to me is that you already have the tools that you need to make this happen because it's already all happening. Or the pieces are there. You just haven't like, assembled them the way that you, uh, you haven't assembled them the way that gets you here.

Brandon Collins: I haven't. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: So what are you gonna do? What could you do moving forward? Like if you, just to like, I'm sad this is over 'cause I'm really enjoying this. But, um, uh, tell me a couple actions that you could take that come to mind right now when I tell you all these pieces are already here.

Brandon Collins: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kate McLeod: what happens?

Brandon Collins: so I have a few goals in mind, especially by the end of this year. One is to get to a place where I can financially afford, like my own creative [00:56:00] space.

that will allow me to do a lot of ideation to do live podcasting similar to this space that will allow, be like, be a multi, um, use space, right? For my production needs and everything like that. And then to use that to then begin curating talent, um, because I also wanna support other artists that wanna do shows and stuff like that.

So,

Kate McLeod: of course

Brandon Collins: my wife, you know, she's always kinda dreamed of having a performance venue. It's been our share dream, but she really is passionate about it. And so the idea is for her, like us to get to a place where the production company has a performance space. That she, she oversees. That's where I would do, you know, Drunk Black History or like, I would basically do a Hannibal Burris model where I, I buy space for me to perform.

Kate McLeod: I'm like, you literally are about to support all of your creative ventures. Yeah.

Brandon Collins: And so I do that and then I do the money like raising that I need to do, to be able to, uh, begin filming my, uh, my life story, my origin story about the sketch comedy. Like that's my dream first film. I [00:57:00] already have the goal to be in pre-production by the time I turned 40, which is a year and a half from now.

I am gonna go back to Ann Arbor. I have enough connections where I think I'll be able to make that happen. I've been working on the script cautiously for the several years. I now fully know the vision of how I wanna tell my story, but it's scary as hell.

Kate McLeod: Of course it's scary.

Brandon Collins: 'Cause it's me confronting all these anxieties, all these fears. But I'm ready. I think I'm ready.

Kate McLeod: You are ready.

Brandon Collins: I'm ready. It's just,

Kate McLeod: and don't, don't disqualify it after saying that.

Brandon Collins: So what I'm trying to say is I have, I have the roadmap in front of me of how I wanna do it. The only thing is, you know, just the instability of the economy. It makes it hard for me to determine financial, like financially, what's the best route for me to go? 'cause I do have some very successful friends, Who I could reach out to and be like, Hey, would you like to invest in this production company? These are my plans. This is like the, the business plan. Or do I, you know, wait out, hope the economy turns around where I can maybe get a bank loan, business loan, things like that. Or do I get a full-time job to support fi- I, like, I have a bunch of different avenues I can go. [00:58:00] I'm just trying to make sure I am

giving energy towards all those so that one of them pans out. I'm not just trying to sit around and wait for, for things to happen. I have a plan.

Kate McLeod: You do have a plan and this man does things. He does things, he gets them done. So I look forward to like this being. Done. Like there's no doubt in my mind that it will happen, but if I can, as myself.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: Just keep telling yourself you're doing it. You're not trying. Thank you. Because you have so many options, you're just figuring out which ones they are.

Brandon Collins: Yeah.

Kate McLeod: And it's so nice to hear. How many options are around you and like, 'cause you've done it for yourself. And so I think that's just like, you've given yourself the life that you want and just remind yourself that like it's, it's happening.

Brandon Collins: Yes.

Kate McLeod: You're already happening along the way.

Brandon Collins: Yeah, it's happening.

Kate McLeod: It is happening. You've made so much happen. Um, I know you have a show tonight with this obviously won't air tonight, but do you wanna talk about anything you wanna plug anything? Where do we find you on social media?

Brandon Collins: Yeah, sure. Folks should follow me at @frodo_blackins on Instagram and Threads.

That's where I'm at these days. [00:59:00] frodoblackins.com for show dates. I've got drunk Black History shows coming up, uh, starting in May in Boston. And then in June we're doing shows in Brooklyn, Detroit. And we're working on a bunch of future dates, uh, that are going into the fall summit comedy festivals. Some are just gonna be different states, uh, primarily the Northeast.

So, um, just follow me and keep up with that. And I talk movies on Medium Popcorn, which is a movie review podcast. It's a lot of fun. Best podcast theme song in the game, I have to say. And uh, yeah. Thank you so much for having me on.

Kate McLeod: Thank you for being on. 

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