Finding Life by Facing Death with Whitney Pipkin (Mark 16)

I can't believe it's our final episode of season 3! And I have a very special episode for you with guest Whitney Pipkin as we discuss the final miracle in the book of Mark. Together we'll learn:

• Why this miracle is easily the biggest miracle of all time.
• How death is a central theme of the Christian's life (and that's not a bad thing!).
• Why avoiding the theme of death may be holding us back.

This one's deep, y'all. I hope you find it as encouraging and edifying as I have. It has been a joy to study with you this season and I can't wait to study with you again. Until next season, go read your Bible, friend!

Links:

Find Whitney Pipkin's  book on Amazon: We Shall All Be Changed

Whitney Pipkin's Instagram: @whitneykpipkin

Whitney Pipkin's website: www.whitneykpipkin.com

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For more resources visit www.whitneyakin.com
Find my book, Overlooked, on Amazon, B&N, and Christianbook.com
Find me on Instagram @whitneyakin

**Sign up for my newsletter + get a free resource HERE!

***Join the Hanging On Every Word Bible Study Group on Facebook HERE!

Transcript

Whitney Akin (00:01.605)
Well, welcome back friends. have a very special episode today for a couple of reasons. First, it's the last episode of season three. Second, we get to talk about the greatest miracle in the book of Mark, really in all of the Bible and really in all of history. So that's kind of a hype up for today's lesson in a miracle. But we want to also, last but not least, welcome another Whitney to the podcast. This is Whitney Pipkin. Welcome Whitney. I'm so glad to have you on the show. Yeah.

Whitney (00:23.534)
Mm-hmm.

Whitney (00:27.367)
Thank you, Whitney.

Whitney Akin (00:29.755)
Whitney Pipkin lives with her husband, three children and a dog named Honey Bun, which is super cute in Northern Virginia, where she works as a journalist and an editor. And she's also the author of We Shall All Be Changed, How Facing Death with Lovelines Transforms Us, which released in 2024 with Moody Publishers. And I've been reading through your book, We Shall All Be Changed. And I just want to tell listeners just how beautiful the book is. I mean, the writing is fabulous and the content is so rich and

I think that the message of the book is really unique and really needed. So could you just kind of give listeners your elevator pitch, if you will, your low pressure elevator pitch, just kind of what is the book about? Where did it come from? Why the subject for you?

Whitney (01:10.126)
Yeah, so I came to it as anyone does to the subject of death, know, kicking and screaming perhaps. My mom had cancer for most of my childhood, so middle school through 2020 when I was an adult. And it's not until she died of cancer that I realized we'd been operating under its shadow all these years, under the shadow of death and really with an unexamined theology around it, one that was mostly avoidant, unhealthy in a lot of ways.

And after walking through her final week with her, I realized that this place, this shadow of death was actually a place of God's nearness, as he says it would be in Psalm 23, and a place that he desires to teach us and shape us and transform us. So I really, you know, had to grapple my way back to God, wrestle with him through writing. And that's what I share in the book is kind of developing a theology of death and why I begged the reader to have one before they think they need it because

We will all walk through death with others and ourselves one day. And it is such a benefit to be prepared to have thought through a little bit how God might still be good when the worst happens because He is like that and that's what I testify to.

Whitney Akin (02:26.723)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I want to talk to you more about that. But I want to listeners to kind of know a foundation of what your book is about before we start into talking about our miracles, because I think it might apply to our conversation and Mark today. So Whitney has graciously agreed to help us walk through our final miracle in the Book of Mark together. And it's found in Mark 16. I'm just going to read verses one through eight for us here.

It says, when the Sabbath was passed, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome brought spices so they might go and anoint him. And very early the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb. And they were saying to one another, who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb? And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back. It was very large. And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side dressed in a white robe. And they were alarmed. And he said to them, do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth who is crucified. He has risen. He's not here.

See the place where they laid him, but go and tell the disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him just as he told you. And they went out and fled from the tomb for trembling and astonishment had seized them. And they said nothing to anyone for they were afraid. Okay, so I'm gonna be honest with you, Whitney, when I started studying through Mark and looking at the miracles that I wanted to talk about, I actually didn't include this one for some reason, which like what am I thinking?

Whitney (03:45.462)
Mm-hmm

Whitney Akin (03:47.459)
And when I went back, I was like, yeah, I probably should put that in there. But I think it kind of leads us into a good conversation about this final miracle, because when we look at the resurrection, obviously it's a miracle, but it's very different than the other miracles, like the healings and the casting out evil spirits and the forgiving sins that we're seeing throughout the book. So can you kind of help us identify, what sets this miracle apart from the work that Jesus has been doing in the rest of the Book of Mark?

Whitney (04:10.829)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I think we see from the woman's reaction that it was unbelievable. Like it was literally unbelievable. They are told this by an angel and they're told to go tell other people and they don't because they're afraid. He tells them, don't be afraid, go tell people. And they're like, we're not going to because we're afraid. And then everyone who is told doesn't believe it until they see it themselves. So it's that unbelievable. Even though these are, you know, his disciples, those who followed Jesus saw him do.

unbelievable things, including raising Lazarus from the dead. I don't know who exactly was there, but we know that some of the disciples were there and some of the women who followed him were there. And yet, it was so unexpected and they struggled to believe. And Jesus, when he does appear to the other disciples later, tells them, know, scolds them for not believing basically, like, blessed are those who do not see and yet believe.

which would be all of us, right? That we get to not see, but believe. And we have the help of the Holy Spirit now to believe in this unbelievable miracle that changes everything.

Whitney Akin (05:22.075)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Totally unbelievable. And Jesus, like you said, had told them, and yet it's just they're seeing it with their own eyes and they can't process what's happening. Every gospel gives us an account of the resurrection, and in all of them, they have different details. But all the gospels tell us that women came to the tomb first. And we know that our boy Mark, as we've been studying through his gospel, he only gives us the details that he thinks are really important because he's not a real detailed guy. He's a real action guy.

Whitney (05:48.078)
Mm-hmm.

Whitney Akin (05:50.733)
And he definitely tells us about the women and he gives us their names, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Siloam. And then he tells us that they're bringing spices to anoint Jesus's body. So what do you think is significant about this burial ritual that these women are planning to do to prepare Jesus's body?

Whitney (06:07.938)
Yeah, I wish I could, that question makes me wanna go and like research it more deeply, because I'm sure it's one that you could just really plumb the depths of it. But it does remind me of the spices that Jesus was given or that Mary, his mother was given at his birth or really two years after by the wise men. So the gold frankincismer, we know some of those were used traditionally in burial. And so me and you wonder if she saved it all this time, you know, or.

or how familiar, you know, people who have walked through death or experienced it, there are certain smells. I mean, for many, it's like just the hospital setting is where many people die. But just how, how much all of our senses are involved in that process and in what really is a thin place where God shows up in death and at the graveside. And so to think of how

you know, they would have been preparing these spices and even these cloths to go and serve the body of Jesus. And that that would have been a ritual they had done before. mean, in ancient times, really until our very modern times, everyone was acquainted with death and was something that people would, it was a hands-on experience for them. And so it would just be this ritual that signals a period of grieving and mourning.

that they would be preparing for both physically and emotionally by heading to that tomb.

Whitney Akin (07:40.411)
Yeah, I, it's so loving, you know, and so personal. And I remember hearing, it was actually Leo Strobel who wrote the case for Christ Came to Our Church. And he was talking about the importance of recognizing that Jesus was really dead. And I've never thought about that before, but that a lot of people casting doubt on the resurrection might come back and say, well, he was never actually truly dead. but we see that these women are purely convinced.

Whitney (08:08.43)
convinced.

Whitney Akin (08:08.987)
first years. And so they're playing out like you said, this ritual that's been done, you know, this is something they would be used to a normal and something they were doing for his death.

Whitney (08:16.578)
Yeah. The only problem they foresaw is like this big stone. They were not like, maybe he won't be there. Like maybe we had a prank pulled on us. They're like, he is dead. They stayed, you know, they stayed and saw him die, the women were still there because Jesus references, marry your son and I think to John, right? And then John, your mother. So we know that they witnessed him, you know, to the very end. And so they...

Whitney Akin (08:20.872)
I didn't cross that line.

Whitney Akin (08:43.161)
Yeah.

Whitney (08:44.702)
There was a lot of things to doubt and unbelief, but him that he was dead was not one of them for them.

Whitney Akin (08:49.851)
Yeah, absolutely. And that kind of brings us to this next question because there's kind of obviously the miracle here is the resurrection, but there's some other really miraculous things happening in the scene. And one is that stone that you just talked about, their concern on the way. How are we going to get the stone moved? We know that this is big, huge, heavy stone. We're told in Matthew that was sealed with a Roman seal and that the Roman guards were also placed there. And so there's great links being put in place to make sure that Jesus is not getting out of that tomb.

And yet when the women come up on the tomb, they're just really surprised because the stone has just rolled back. And we also see the southern miraculous moment where there's an angel just kind of chilling inside the tomb and they go in and they're alarmed, Mark says, which I mean, I think I would be too. And it seems the angel is just kind of waiting for them to come and he has a message for them. And this is probably silly, but it makes me think of like, if you had a meeting and a room and they changed the room last minute and someone stays behind, it's like.

Go down the hall. The meeting's not here anymore. You know, just kind of waiting to let them know. And so I want to talk about the significance of what the angel said to the women. It's in verses six and seven. I'll just read that really quick again. the angel says, do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth who is crucified. He's risen. He's not here. See the place where they laid him, but go and tell the disciples and Peter that he's going before you to Galilee there. You'll see him just as he told you. So what is the significance of what the angel is like telling the women?

Whitney (09:46.05)
Yeah.

Whitney (10:15.113)
So, do not be afraid seems to the thing that every angel tells everyone when they appear. They must be kind of terrifying on their own. I'm not an expert at all of that, but they need to be told, do not be afraid. And the same instead of every time that they interacted with God in the Old Testament when Moses is speaking with God, do not be afraid. So, it's intuitively fearful, this presence of an angel.

Not only are they surprised, they're just really disoriented. Like you said, like someone showing up to a meeting and the person you're supposed to meet is not there. And you have someone instead who is just has a very surprising appearance. You know, they, I don't know, I would just be, and then you see the women, like you see Mary Magdalene or Mary and her in the other tellings in the other gospels that she's just like, where did you put him? That's like her main concern is like, where is he? It's so important.

to care for the body and to do what she'd been prepared to do, that she just distraught over not knowing where he is. So the resurrection has not occurred to them yet at this point. And the angel, I mean, he said he's not here. It's just not, they really don't get it yet. And I especially love Jesus's interaction with Mary in other, is it in which gospel? I use this combined one.

the four gospels in a single narrative. Have you seen these yet? So it's like a pretty...

Whitney Akin (11:46.299)
No. Nice. Okay, that sounds really neat.

Whitney (11:49.368)
found, but it has disoriented me about like where it, cause it, it, it's cool for reading through, you know, the resurrection or some of these accounts because it, it syncs it all up. but it has confused me about where stuff is actually. but Jesus's response to Mary, you know, when he says her name and then she's like, rebel and I, and knows. And so at that point,

It reminds me of the conversation they had in John 11 about her brother, Lazarus, and the way that Jesus met with Martha and Mary about their brother and the way that he was this calming presence. When they were fixated on, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. And that's like the thing that is fixed in their craw. As we all have, we bring to God something that we're like, this is the thing that needs to change in order for you to be faithful.

And Jesus instead says, I am the resurrection and the life. And that's what he says here to these women. They're like, we need his body. We need to care for him to the very end. And it's not there. And they're still kind of stuck on like, where's his body? What's going on? How can we be faithful? And Jesus says, you know, her name, you know, and all of that would come flooding back like, he did tell us this would happen. He did say.

I am the resurrection and the life. And he raised Lazarus. Why am I surprised that he has done this? mean, the disciples say in several places, like, at the time we did not get it. Looking back, we get it. And they see how he was caring for them and giving them a heads up that this was coming and that he was truly who he said he was in a way that they really underestimated.

Whitney Akin (13:21.838)
I'm

Whitney Akin (13:28.09)
Yeah.

Whitney Akin (13:38.937)
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. And so true for us still, because I don't know about you, but for me, I mean, it's so easy to forget what God said or what He's promised in His Word. And just like you said, fixated on whatever thing I feel is important and to be reminded of what's true and what He says about Himself. And the resurrection of life is still so impactful to change our perspective.

And I think you're talking about your combined gospels. I think Mark might probably give us the least amount of details about the resurrection. so I, I'm sorry, lost my place. Yeah. So you're talking about the combined gospels and I think Mark might give us the least amount of details about the resurrection, but it does go on to say that he had these eyewitness moments. He appeared to Mary Magdalene.

He appears to two people in the country is what Mark says, and then to the 11 disciples where he gives them the great commission. And so I was just thinking about the eyewitnesses. And as you have thought on the concept of death and eternity, these eyewitnesses, they've seen Jesus's physical death. talked about that with their own eyes. And then they see his physical resurrection with their own eyes. And I just wonder if you could speak to like, what would this change for them in knowing this and seeing that?

Whitney (15:03.362)
I I remember, I don't know how deep to go here, but it's a very hard to describe, when your loved one dies and just their body is left, the affection you have for them still, like for their body, the thing that you would think is so weird, like I would wanna run from that room.

suddenly becomes just the only place you want to be because there's just, it's so much of who they are. It's so much of your connection to them is as an embodied person. So even though they have gone and you are grateful that their suffering has ended, I mean, if you're caregiving for someone who's in the process of dying, you are relieved that their suffering is over and that you are done with the physical and emotional marathon.

of that season. But the daydreaming about what that reunion will look like begins. There's a song by Grey Havens, I Always Knew You Could Be Like This. I saw glimpses of it before. And so to think of not only the ways that their bodies are redeemed, but the ways that each of us will be what we were always meant to be. And the things that were hard about our relationships with one another will be fully and totally.

redeemed, we'll celebrate exactly who God made us to be. We'll still be ourselves, we'll be recognizable. mean, the disciples needed help to recognize Jesus, but they did, he was himself. He still had the scars of what he had done for them. they, you know, they did not run from him. They were, you know, invited, Thomas was invited to touch him and to...

know that he is this one they have known bodily has returned. So it's a huge deal that Jesus had a body after he was resurrected. I mean, that is the biggest glimpse we get of what's to come for us also. Okay, he was recognizable. He looked different in his resurrected body, but he was still himself and someone that they could know. And so that—

Whitney (17:26.508)
you know, the way of the Savior will be the way of us, those who trust in Him. We will follow the same trajectory. And so, I mean, it's just, there's a ton to think and imagine about when it comes to the resurrected body, but it's a big deal that Jesus had one and that He showed it to so many people and was not like, it was not smoke and mirrors. was not the Wizard of Oz, you know, trying to hide. It was like, come and touch.

that don't cling to me because it's different. Like I'm not who I was, but I still am the Lord that you followed and everything I taught you is true.

Whitney Akin (18:02.039)
Mm-hmm. That's so good. Yeah, absolutely. As I've read your book, it's kind of made me think about how Christianity, know, sort of the central theme of Christianity isn't just about life, because I think we think about that a lot, like the abundant life or, of course, eternal life. And it's also sort of centered on the idea of death. And so how does this idea of Jesus's death and resurrection, this big concept, sort of play into our very normal

mundane everyday lives in 2025.

Whitney (18:34.454)
Yeah. Well, I think it's telling that Christians don't love to talk or think about death. Not only like the actual end of a person's life, but also, you know, the Christian story is not just about that part of death. It's about daily dying to self and to our desires. And we just re we really don't like that part. Like we really kind of want comfort and

But spiritually, comfort is often the enemy of our growth and maturity. so, eternally, spiritually, to die to self is the very best thing God could ask of us and want for us, is to come alive to who we're meant to be instead of who we are and who sin has made us out to be. the, I mean, death should be defining our daily life in that way. I like the book, The J Curve by Paul Miller.

He talks about going down into suffering and up into resurrection and that being a daily path of, you you can go into many J curves or big J curves. like when he watches his disabled daughter, so his wife can go out of town, he is going down into, you know, many suffering so that she can go into resurrection. And just the ways that we're invited to die to ourselves, we may not know when the resurrection is coming in that circumstance or in the end, but we know that it

that it will, that every time we go down like Jesus did, when we choose to be humble and go toward the place of dying to self, that there will be a resurrection to come in those circumstances or in the lives of others and ultimately the capital R resurrection to come.

Whitney Akin (20:21.485)
Yeah, that's beautiful. And it's motivation toward perseverance that, like you said, there's always a resurrection coming. It might not be when we want it. Usually it isn't, but that's, I never heard of the J curve, but now I'm going to go look that up. That's really cool. I want to kind of switch gears now from looking at the resurrection to kind of just asking you, would you share with our listeners your journey toward biblical literacy and just sort of developing a love of

Whitney (20:31.128)
Mm-hmm.

Whitney Akin (20:50.786)
word. How does that look like in your life?

Whitney (20:53.326)
Well, it started when I was pretty young, probably middle school. I started reading my Bible on my own. We had a great mentoring program within our church, kind of not really even a program, but it was just women who we were the counselor, especially when I was in high school, and we were the counselors for their middle school daughters, and they started pouring into us. And I'm still connected. I'm going to go speak at a retreat with a lot of those women later this month. And I'm just...

It was such a gift to have it modeled. Because I think that's the value of discipleship is like daily Bible literacy and reading is really not thrilling. doesn't actually necessarily even impact that day. It doesn't like make you a super Christian or something. It's the long game that it makes a big deal. So when you can catch a vision early on for how it forms a person,

And I want that, whatever I have to do between now and then to get to that point, to get to be someone who can endure X, Y, and Z and still say that God is good. That's what I want. And then all the struggles, all the years of making it legalistic and then having to repent of trying to earn God's favor, earn a good day. And now it's seasons of

I'm trying to read through the Bible holistically, interrupted, interspersed with seasons of doing Bible study at my local church and seasons of diving into something I'm writing or something like that. So I'm far less legalistic about it. And I use the audio version a lot more than I used to. I know. And I really do.

Whitney Akin (22:48.015)
Thank God for the audio version.

Whitney (22:51.554)
I mean, different people are different. I really do absorb what I listen to. It almost like washes over me in an interesting way. So yeah, just like the long game, the steady growth. mean, we're just, you know, we just got back from our women's retreat and we're just, you know, whatever it just do it, just do the thing today, whatever, whatever it looks like. even like the first, the study we're doing, I like timed.

I was like, the first day took only 12 minutes. You guys can do it. 12 minutes a day, you know? But also that accountability is huge. Like nothing makes you do your Bible study, like knowing you're going to have to lead a discussion on it. You know? Right.

Whitney Akin (23:35.909)
That's true. Yeah. That's why I started this podcast. This is going to make me have to study and so, and hopefully encourage other people. I teach ninth and 10th grade girls at church and I try to tell them the analogy. Maybe it's a terrible analogy, but that the Bible is not like a debit card. It's like a savings account. So you go to it, not to draw out from it, but to deposit into it. And like, you're just, it's, you said it so well, it's the long game, but to see that modeled and to know like that's, it's going to be worth it when I invest into it.

Whitney (23:41.015)
Yeah.

Whitney Akin (24:05.357)
is so important and so good. And in that arc of legalism, I think might be the arc that every church kid follows and diving into legalism, coming out of legalism. Yeah, that's so good. Thank you for sharing that with us. the podcast is really, and the goal of this podcast is really to help listeners become consistent and confident Bible readers. And so if you could give us just like a practical piece of advice, maybe something that's helped you.

in your own Bible study or in time with Jesus and that consistency that you're talking about, what would that be?

Whitney (24:42.318)
So, I mean, having a place, having a spot that you're gonna do it and having your stuff ready. Also deciding the night before what you're gonna do first. you going to? Because I'm always battling between like, should exercise, I should read my Bible, which one am I doing first when I first get up? And so just having that plan the night before and then knowing and telling myself even if I don't do it first thing, I'm still gonna do it.

So then it may swap into audio book while I walk the dog or audio Bible while I walk the dog. But I'm not going to go, well, I'll just start tomorrow because something is better than nothing. And that, so that has been my trade off instead of waiting for like the perfect idyllic. And I think, you know, Instagram does not help us in this category of we're like waiting for this idyllic situation.

This is why I'm not a bookstagram influencer, because the ways that I read books are not pretty. They're just crammed into the cracks of life. Maybe Sunday afternoons it looks nice, but usually it's like while I'm brushing my teeth and I'm holding it open with one hand or I'll walk the dog with a book in my hand. It's not super safe. Would not totally recommend it. No, I do not actually.

Whitney Akin (25:58.651)
That's great. You must have a good dog who doesn't.

Whitney (26:05.686)
So sometimes it results in some sanctification of, you know, she darts across my feet and I'm like, blah, you know, while reading the Bible. Yeah, so I think just doing it anyway when it's not perfect, not waiting to arrive at some perfect plan. I mean, I'm on year three of my one-year Bible reading plan right now. And I'm going to set it aside again because we're about to start our spring study and it'll be okay.

And if I want to dip back into Joshua, can, but I don't have to. I'm just reading something all the time.

Whitney Akin (26:45.979)
Absolutely. Yeah, it's the saying is perfect is the enemy of good Yeah, that's so good So let's let's go back to your book a little bit We've talked just a little bit about what it's about and and we shall be changed and in it you talk about navigating your mother's death And I found my I'm still reading it But I find myself feeling emotional as I read it even though I have never At this point lost a parent or something equivalent to that yet in my life and I think it's just that the emotion comes from the

Whitney (26:49.774)
Mm-hmm.

Whitney Akin (27:15.223)
reality and the reminder that death is just inevitable. And can you share more, you kind of alluded to it before, but about our culture's avoidance of the reality of death and why that might be a bad thing for us.

Whitney (27:18.03)
Mm-hmm.

Whitney (27:30.776)
Yeah, listen, I I lived it like my sister. It's kind of hilarious that I wrote this book because I was very, I really thought that dealing with what mom was going through was in opposition to me doing my life well, like getting through the day and being present for my kids and being the mom I thought I needed to be, like a happy mom. I really struggled to go there and really wanted to protect myself from having to go there.

so that, mean, I've distanced myself from her because it was like the, the physicality of her dying over all those years that the chemo treatments mentioned out here for the last like seven years. And so just, it was so obvious, but it was so, I was so good at like avoiding it in all these little ways. and yet when it, when it, so I think what I've learned is that when you look at

how Christ handled this. It says in several places that his heart went out in compassion to people. And those going out in compassion, those were not, like often he was going to do something very good. Like he's supposed to go and heal the centurion's daughter, right? And the woman with the bleed, it touches the hem of his robe and he's interrupted. And we see that tension, we feel that tension.
you're good. I do this all the time.

Whitney (29:23.756)
So he's able to go out in compassion toward people and then come back to his central purpose. And none of that is a distraction, right? So it's almost like he's grown these ruts of compassion. And I think that when you become willing to go there with people or with your own pain, the fear is that you won't be able to come back to joy. But what actually happens instead is you build these ruts back and forth between sorrow and joy. You get this like rubber band resiliency that allows you to go back and forth and be present with people in their sorrow.

But as quickly as you go there, you also go more quickly back to joy. So it's something that through rehearsing and through overcoming the fear of going there with people, I've seen, it actually does become easier the more you go there to both hold sorrow, but also to hold joy. almost like carves out more capacity for both as you're hollowed out by the grief that you interact with with other people.

So it's just been interesting to see how that's changed me. you you see somebody crying or even my husband, there's somebody crying outside the office the other day and like he watched several people walk by and you know, they all have things to do. They're all busy. But he's like, I just didn't occur to me to not stop and you know, minister this person, ask how they're doing because it's a habit of going there. And I think it starts with being willing to go there with your own pain and your own facing of death.

and then it enables you to go there with others.

Whitney Akin (30:55.387)
Wow, that's really insightful. I don't think I've ever thought of that before, but it's encouraging to know that it's scary to dive into, but it creates a resilience. That rubber band, that's really beautiful and encouraging. I feel like I haven't walked through that season yet, but I think even not walking through death doesn't mean you can't walk through that idea of turning aside and compassion and having time for people and their struggles. That's really encouraging that that...

that grows something really beautiful inside of us. I think this message, I mean, obviously it's very personal in the book, but I also think it's like, obviously universal because it's death and so none of us escape it. So I just wonder what has been most surprising or maybe most impactful as an author stewarding this message into the world.

Whitney (31:48.994)
Yeah, I think it's surprising how valuable our testimonies are. you can really, I think, for any writer, you can talk yourself out of writing the thing because someone else could do it better. Someone else's story is more dramatic. Their suffering is more intense than mine. I lost my mom. Lots of people lose their parents. It's pretty basic. And so who am I to write this? But I've seen through writing it that once there's something powerful about the written word, and especially when it's talking about

God and His word and that something I write down takes on a life of its own. while I would never like in an elevator if somebody said, I just lost my child, I wouldn't be like, I know what you're going through because I lost my mom. Like I would never do that. But somehow the book can do that. It's crazy that the book and that our stories, whether it's through a fictional novel or through a testimony at church can speak to each other by the power of the Holy Spirit.

he can use it to minister to people that are in very different circumstances. So that's been really humbling and surprising. And when people are like, would you recommend it for this person? I'm like, probably never. But I've heard from people in that situation that they read it and it ministered to them. And I'll just, take their word for it because I would never feel qualified to speak into some of these circumstances. But I do think that any suffering

Whitney Akin (33:01.145)
Yeah.

Whitney (33:17.838)
really makes us more ready to enter into all types of suffering with people. So I do think it's somewhat of a lie to think like, I haven't been through that, so I can't speak to that person. I can't comfort them. I mean, that causes us to really stay away from the hurting, which is not what they need.

Whitney Akin (33:33.487)
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well, that's just a perfect segue into this question because you're telling us that it's reached people you maybe didn't think it would or people you wouldn't assume that it would. So I think that you need to tell our listeners how they can find it because I think it's gonna speak into their situations, whether it's grief or like you said, kind of the preemptive idea of studying what this is like.

Whitney (33:50.2)
Mm.

Whitney Akin (34:02.071)
even before you experience it is so valuable. So where can people find your book? Where can they connect with you? Tell them how they can find you.

Whitney (34:11.074)
Yeah, my ultra hope is that people would read it before they think they need it. You know, when you go, I don't know if you live near your family, but for me, it was always like, you go home at the holidays and you see just how much they've aged or something. And you don't really have a category for how to deal with that. And this book is an invitation to go there and to really face those thoughts that are kind of running like below the surface. Yeah, so you can find it anywhere books are sold.

I also read the audiobook myself, so that was really hard work, so I would like people to listen to it. So it's on like audiobook.com is the cheapest way to get it actually. Yeah, so and that's I think also I wanted that to be a gift for people who do need it. Like they realize I need this now, but I don't have the energy to open a book. But yeah, I would love for people to read it.

You know, it could be for Lent as well. I know we're coming up on Easter to read it before they think they need it. That's my gift to my friends that read it because they know me they have to is that they will be better prepared to walk through this than I was.

Whitney Akin (35:20.631)
Yeah, definitely. I think that's so valuable. I mean, I've experienced that just in reading through it myself. It just opens your eyes to a different perspective that you just don't think about that often. And so how can they connect with you if they want to find you on socials or websites?

Whitney (35:31.426)
Mm-hmm.

Whitney (35:37.716)
Yeah, I'm at Whitney K. Pipkin. I'm on Substack. I'm overdue on all the things right now on newsletters and being on the internet, but that's Whitney K. Pipkin. He's my middle initial for Christian writing. Otherwise, you'll stumble into my journalism side and be very confused about all the things. So yeah.

Whitney Akin (35:45.059)
Thank

Whitney Akin (35:56.891)
Okay, Whitney K. Pipkin. Well, thank you so much for being a guest. This has been a beautiful conversation and really insightful. It's given me some things to chew on and think about. thank you too for your beautiful insight on the resurrection. It's been really nice.

Whitney (36:15.214)
Thank you so much for having me Whitney.

Whitney Akin (36:17.113)
Yeah, and I think this is like a really beautiful way to end season three. I really can't think of a better way. And so I just want to say thank you, friends, for studying through all the miracles in Mark with me this season. And I can't wait to study with you again. OK, I'm going to stop recording.