Funky Chord Progressions in CCM with Natalie Layne

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Welcome Natalie Layne, to The Worship Keys Podcast! Natalie opens up about life on the road, her early days in music, and how she went from indie artist to signing with Centricity Music. We talk about everything from her classical roots to her creative songwriting process. Natalie also shares about her journey on social media, the story behind her new album All Joy, and what it’s really like carving a path in today’s music scene. Plus, she gives us a taste of her favorite tracks live—don’t miss out on this episode.

Natalie Layne
Free Gift Grateful For
Free Gift The Long Way

Transcript

Speaker: 0:08

Natalie Layne was on that list. So honored for you to have be here in front of me in person here is incredible. Love it. So, thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. It's gonna be kinda like a hybrid of an episode. Guys. We got. A lot of good conversation, but also a lot of good practical music theory tips. We got the keyboard out in front of you, Natalie, because this is probably where you're most comfortable. Oh, totally. This is my seat. Best seat in the house. Yeah. Yeah. Surrounded by the, we got a real CRO, Baldwin, behind us here. That's the piano I grew up playing. Oh, cool. But we got the keyboard here so that people ce the notation and the MIDI stuff. But we're gonna be talking about music, a lot of music theory today. Oh yeah. But Natalie Layne, you're signed with Centricity Music. Yes. Which is awesome. So crazy. You were an independent artist for a while. You went to Belmont. Okay guys. She has a master's in piano. I don't know if we've ever had a guest with a master's in piano. That's scary. A lot of pressure. So, guys like this is pretty awesome. A lot of people who teach themselves or maybe did classical lessons for a while, got a lot of gospel peopan seele on the po, but she's got, you have a ton of influence with jazz gospel. You're in the CCC M world. Yeah. But I love, okay, I gotta mention this too before we get going again. Like I said, there's a lot to say with you, Natalie. There's so much and so much to say. And you haven't even lived most of your life yet. So that's incredible. Yeah. Wow. There's a lot more, so much to say. So you've been on a handful of podcasts, so I gotta say she's been with Rita Springer on Worship is My Weapon podcast. Rita's the best. Yeah. How was that? Did you like that? Oh, yeahodcast too. She, we've been friends for a couple years now, so it's fun when you're just like talking with a friend. We were like, this is like when we're at coffee, yeah. We're just like hanging out. But she's amazing. She's such a like. Spiritual mom to us too. And so she's amazing. Everyone should listen to her podcast. Absolutely. In Generally, worship is No Weapon Podcast. We'll probably link that one, that episode that you were featured on her page. But about a year ago, she, great conversation with you. Talked about industry stuff talked about worship in general. Talked about a little bit of, your upbringing and your your internship, your how you shadowed Bernie. Crazy. Which is amazing. Natalie Grant's husband, Bernie. Yes. Who's just a powerhouse, also an amazing keys player. I. Yes. One of the best. Yes. Like you'll just watch him and have your mind blown. It's crazy. Absolutely. And organ. And on the organ too, right? Oh, he's the best. Yeah. It's awesome. It's crazy. So that was really cool. Also, you were featured on a podcast. It was Stained Glass Kids, right? With the Yancy. Yes. And it really, you really talked about your family. Your church life growing up. And you love the church. I love the church. Yeah. Yeah. And she has, you have a brand new album. It's been out for a while now, called Months All Joy, couple Months, yeah. And you've been touring that? Yes. How much fun has that been to to tour that album? Oh, it's been so much fun. It's crazy 'cause we wrote those songs like two years ago. Like the songs feel a little old to me, like we wrote those a long time ago. But to then tour it and play these songs for people and for people who have been listening to them and like the songs now mean something to somebody else. Is like always gonna be wild to me. So yeah, that's been the most fun part is to like, look into people's faces and be like, oh, we know the same song. This has meant something to both of us. Like what a gift it is to sing it together. So that Awesome. That is awesome. Guys, we're gonna talk a lot about music here, but before we do, I do wanna talk a little bit about your. Beginning days learning the keys. So share with us a little bit Yeah. Of how, when you were three, four, and five years old and the influence of your grandmother. Oh my gosh. Okay. So my family is very musical. My parents, my grandparents everybody plays something just for fun. Yeah. Nobody's ever done it for a living, like nothing like that. But everybody's volunteering at church. They're on worship teams, all that stuff. And so my parents were really smart with it because I think they would've made me take piano lessons. Like they would've totally been those parents to be like. You will take piano lessons for 10 years or whatever and Yeah. But instead of doing that, I was a first kid, so this is their first rodeo and I think they nailed it. Oh yeah. Yeah. But they just bought me a little, the kind of toy keyboard when I was. Three years old and they just didn't say anything about it. They just put it in my playroom and I like discovered it all by myself. One day I was like, what is this new toy we found? And I started playing these little melodies and I just thought it was the coolest thing ever. And so teaching myself from the beginning learning these melodies, things that I had heard that I could now play and. It's crazy because I, I think in those beginning days a lot of people talk about learning the piano, and for me it didn't feel like learning it, it felt like I was remembering how to play. Like it was like somehow in my bones that I love to play piano. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was doing all that kind of discovering music and then I was like, mom and dad, do you think I could like, take piano lessons? And they were like. What a great idea you had all by yourself. Good job. When really, I think it was their plan all along to get me to fall in love with it. But it worked out great because my grandma was a piano teacher for 30 years. Like she had a studio thriving piano studio of all these kids and, she has trained up some of the most amazing worship keyboardists. There's a guy named John Larson who is oh wow. Yeah. Amazing. And she taught him how to play piano from the beginning, like just wow. All these people. And she retired. I wasn't teaching anymore. And then I was like, grandma, I wanna learn how to play piano. So she came outta retirement for me, which was very nice. So I was her only piano student for a while. We just were always learning together and she taught me how to play by ear. And classically, we were always learning classical stuff too. So that was my upbringing and then started playing in church when I was like 12, which was crazy. I don't know amazing why they trusted me to do that. When I was like, this is probably a bad idea. I'm like a middle schooler. I don't know about that. But just had some really amazing mentors and. I grew up, yeah. Playing in church. And you grew up in Colorado, right? That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Grew up at a church called New Life there and just loved it. So awesome. Yeah. And one of my favorite artists and worship leaders, Corey Asbury. Who, which. People joke about this if, when they know me personally, I love always including reckless love in a worship set. Great for a few reasons. For one, that bridge is amazing. For two, it's a little controversial, and I like that. Perfect. It's great. Yep. So you're a supporter of The Reckless thing. Oh, I am very much a supporter of this and I love his. It's like the, it's like unforeseen or sloppy, right? Kiss's. Loppy all the time. I'm sloppy. We too. Okay. And reckless. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And so you actually gr when you were growing up, you were in that same church that Corey Asbury was in, right? Yeah. But you didn't know he was like a Yeah. So an artist of some sort, or, he had a record out, but Reckless Love wasn't out. And so Yeah, when I was a teenager, my worship pastors were like, Corey Asbury, Jared Anderson, John Egan. That's cool. They, I had no idea that people knew who they were or like they were, like, in the worship world, I, they were just my friends and my pastors, and yeah. But growing up, like watching them lead and leading with them was very formative. You just watch those people navigate the presence of God and yeah. How to lead people into that. And so it was very formative to. Lead alongside them, write songs with them. Like it just, I didn't know what a blessing it was until after I left. I came to Nashville and people were like, oh, like talking about them like my friend Jared. Like Corey, yeah, Corey's crazy. What are you talking about? Which he is. His personality is so funny. He's always been. The way that people see him online. That's just Corey, you, right? Yeah. He's hilarious. He's so funny. I love how he makes fun of himself a lot, or leaders. It's perfect. But he really does Yep. Love God and love worship. Yes. Yes. And he's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. It was just sweet to be like mentored by those people when I didn't even really know, that they had influence and yeah, just really sweet. There's still so much that I. I learned from them that I think of now or go back to now. And so it was a gift. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. And then you eventually went on to Belmont University, you won the Belmont Christian Showcase. Yeah. And that's what eventually led to your signing of, or is that not Yes. To centricity music? Tell us about that. So the showcases at Belmont are. Essentially American Idol. Okay. In Nashville. Okay. Yeah. It's, it was it's a big deal. Big deal. It was a big deal. A big deal. I auditioned one year and did not get it. Wow. Got cut pretty early. Wow. They, the judges are all people in the industry, so it's always interesting to hear their feedback. The first year we got cut, the second year we came back with the same songs and same thing, and they were like, this is amazing. I was like. I, this music is so subjective. It's hilarious. Oh wow. So right place, right time. Yeah. And it must've been that. It must've been the, like that was the year. But yeah, we came back and ended up winning that showcase and it's crazy. It's like a big deal on campus. Like it's in the arena at Belmont, like all the students come to it. What I didn't know is that record labels also come to it. Okay. I didn't know that. It was like a scouting thing. Oh, okay. Yeah. Which was good that I didn't know that. 'cause that would've freaked me out. But Nashville, you can always expect that mean, I guess it's Nashville, but I was just a young college student. I don't know. But it was my senior year and I, so I had been playing with my band for a long time and we were like, we felt ready to, take those next steps. And so after that showcase, I had all of a sudden meetings with every label, like just was meeting with everybody, starting to. Kind of decipher what I wanted to do because I had released some stuff independently, was loving the independent artist's life. Like I thought I might never sign. I was like, this is so fun. We can be so creative. And you'd produce your own music too, right? A producer? I was producing a lot of, yes. Yeah. People know that. Yeah. Which I still get to do some of It's so much fun. I like, I produce three tracks on my record and that's awesome. Yeah, just get to be in and out of that, but. Yeah, I was producing my own stuff with my band who I had met back in Colorado. We started playing together when we were 13 and they're still my band that travels with me and Oh, that's awesome. So we were having so much fun just making music together. And they still travel with You still travel with me today. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Even after you get signed. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It's fun. Just fun to do with your friends, but we're meeting with all these labels and I met this one that I was like, okay, if I ever were to sign I'm not saying I'm gonna sign, but if I ever were to sign, it would probably be with them. They're just so genuine and like a small label that felt really family oriented and everything. Thought I might sign with them. Then COVID happens and shuts down all the plans. Like I was gonna go on my first tour, I was graduating college. Wow. I was gonna release my first record, like maybe sign a record deal and all that stopped, man. Yeah. And so just like a really confusing time of when I thought the Lord was. Starting something up. Sure. And then it felt like all the doors were slamming in our faces and Right. I know a lot of people felt like that, but it was especially weird in the music industry when all of a sudden you can't travel or tour or any of that. So I. I just reevaluated and was like, what else would I do if I wasn't doing this right now? And I was like, I'd love to, I'd love to teach music someday. I'd love to be some sort of a music professor teach at the college level. And so to do that, you need a master's. And I was like, what else am I doing right now? Let's go get a master's in piano. So that's ended up doing that. Kept talking to that label though, on and off and signed with them four years later. Wow. So we were talking for a long time, but amazing. It's been a dream to work with them. Okay. Four years later. So what happened from that beginning point until when you were signed? What did it take for them to say yes? What did it take for you to say yes? Yeah. What are the steps there? Just, I know it's probably a very long conversation, which you and Rita Springer talked about that a good bit in her podcast. But tell us briefly that those four years where you were in the in between, what did that look like? Yeah. And it was from both sides. It was like them deciding and me like submitting to what the Lord was doing there because Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just thought that I was gonna live the independent. Artist's life and yeah. So a lot of surrendering my own plans and what I thought, but no, I was just in the practice rooms for two years really while I was getting my master's and that was also very formative for just my keys playing. I was writing songs all the time and it was such a weird time in the world 'cause you couldn't really do anything else. And so I was literally. On my grind, yeah. Yeah. I was just like trying to get really good at my craft and so I feel like those years were actually really necessary. When I didn't know that was how it was gonna go, but Right. So I was doing that for a long time and then I was also begrudgingly, this is a theme of my life is what I'm realizing. I'm like, Lord, I don't wanna do this. And he is but let's try, let's try. He leads you into things you don't know that you were meant to do. Yes. But I remember during that time he was like, I want you to start posting some of your songs online. And I was like, I don't wanna do that. I wanna delete all my social media actually, I don't wanna get away from be on it more. Yeah. And I just remember him saying, no. I want to be where people's eyes are and their eyes are. On TikTok right now. And so I want to go there and give them songs to sing during hard days or whatever. Yeah. And I was like, okay. And so I started posting these little clips of the songs I was writing. Yeah. And during COVID, a lot of people were doing that. TikTok had just started up. And it was cool at first, like nobody was seeing my videos and then a few more people were seeing my videos and it just turned into this like. Collaborative thing. Like I would play some song that I was writing and be like, what do we think of this? What should come next? What do you think the chorus should do? I love that. And then all of a sudden it was like this giant online co-write or something like people were, that's fun sending in ideas and saying what they liked and didn't like and just blew up all of a sudden. Wow. And and so that was a huge catalyst into me. Having an actual career right out of school, which I also never thought would happen, but all of a sudden I was getting asked to come play shows and so I had a career. Wow. All of a sudden, you are right. Which was awesome and was totally the dream. And so that was the first thing. And then, the labels started seeing that and, okay, now we have something to work with and here's the songs that people are loving. Just gave us a lot of like actual evidence that like people also connect to what we're doing. Absolutely. And so just started talking through that. There were some songs that had gone viral and we were like, we need to get these out and how is the best way to do that? And so what was the first song that went viral? Or one of the first ones, the first might have been a song called Steady. Okay. Yeah. I'm playing a little bit of that. Sure. Yeah. It's four chords the whole time, but they're, you're interesting. It goes from e minor to a minor, a little B seven, and you play with it. It's just fun. I don't know. Yeah. So this was me like. On the internet just playing these few chords. Sometimes I snap with it, you do a little snap in your add a little percussion. Yeah. It's, I was just playing that it's fun. Yeah. But people started finding that it started ministering to them, like a little snappy song. That I never thought would do that, but. That's awesome. Yeah, that was one of the first and so that I was in process of releasing, released that independently and went pretty well, kept talking. And then the label invited me on this songwriting retreat that they do, and it was amazing. I got to know them a lot better and we got back and the next day they were like we would be silly not to offer you a deal. And I was like. If it's the right deal, let's do it. That's awesome. So it was sweet and a long process that I didn't know it was gonna happen, but God took care of it, so praise God. That's awesome. It's cool. I think labels can be very empowering and beneficial for artists to help you record, get your music out, help with touring, help with logistics. Yeah. Sometimes obviously, I think. Even now, more days, people really know about some of the bad deals that happened. Totally. And so they're very aware that, oh my goodness, I need to be very careful. And I think labels are also coming, they've come to terms with that and how that can be. A little tricky. But you've mentioned a little bit with Rita Springer too, how you are able to keep a lot of the same independence of, Hey, this is my style. Yeah. This is what I like to do. I'm not gonna be this cookie cutter CCM thing. Talk to us a little bit about that. And again, we're gonna hear. Hear you play some more and sing. Her voice is incredible. Y'all, if you don't already know that, most of you probably yeah, I know I listen to her music. But talk to us a little bit about how they allowed you to not be cookie cutter and allowed you to have independence. Yeah. That's so important. I feel like, because you're right, the. The bad stories kind of surface these days especially. And we see lawsuits with labels. We see a lot of people just talking like they're very unhappy with their label, which makes sense. Like, it's gonna be hard, especially I think as believers like. We're trying to marry these things of we're doing music as ministry and it's also business. And that is always gonna rub, that's always gonna be hard. And so on, on premise, it's difficult. And so when you add people and personalities and creative styles into that, it's just, it is a lot. It's a lot to work with. And that's why I felt like that specific label that I got in contact with was like, they're so unique and I'm glad that I took the time to find who my actual people were. Because I think some people jump into the first thing that they get offered. Yeah. And that can actually be really dangerous. But. Yeah, these people specifically were just like, by the time that we were seriously talking, I had built a thing already that they were into and so that's good. I remember our early discussions of them being like, we just, we want to roll with your vision. And other labels had said, here's our vision for you. And so it was so refreshing for me to hear we wanna roll with this vision you have. Like we really love it. Like it's amazing. Obviously it'd be great, if we had a song that could do well on radio or a song that could do well here, but we just wanna let you run wild on your record and see what happens. Yeah. And I was like, no one has ever said that to me. No one else was saying that stuff. Yeah. And so it's finding the right people I think and still like I'm two years into my deal and I still love them. Like we, that's awesome. We just work together. Really well and creatively it's worked out, but it's just rare and I know that it's rare and so I'm trying to like, I'm trying to appreciate right, what we found here because, oh man. Because I think it's possible, to have a really healthy relationship with your label and if you've, if you have the right people and. Are listening to each other and helping each other and trying to serve each other and and not fight for your own thing all the time. It is. Of letting people into your creative process, which can be difficult. But it's helpful if you're making music for a lot of people. You want For sure. You want it to be helpful. Absolutely. Yeah. It's worked for us and I think a lot of people these days are very anti label. And I just want. People to know that it's possible. It's to have a healthy situation. That's good. I love that because you already had your own vision. God's already led you down this one path. Hey, I'm gonna post this stuff. I'm gonna create this my own kind of community and connection. That a label's Hey, I'm gonna back that up. 'cause I love that. Yeah. Some people, if they don't have a direction or a vision already going, yeah. Maybe sometimes they feel like they have to push on that. Yep. And some labels feel like they always have to have a vision for an artist, but if you already have your vision so strongly and they recognize that in you, that's incredible, Natalie. So yeah, it was sweet. Yeah. And I feel like even that was the early days of the vision. I have more now. Yeah. Than I had, but for sure we had some direction, so it helped. That's awesome. Yeah. So a few things I wanna talk about, and again, I wanna hear you play and sing more. I don't wanna just talk, we definitely wanna hear you play more, but a few more things. So when you were younger, taking lessons with your grandmother with your grandmother and grandfather, they're still alive and well and doing great. Oh yes. Yeah, they're in their eighties. That's amazing. They're doing great. Yeah. That's awesome. So I want you to talk about your piano lessons. So I think most of everyone understands the classical realm of things like Mozart, Beethoven. Totally. You're reading the sheet music. You gotta get everything down note by note. And that's pretty clear. So we don't have to talk about that. But when you're talking about ear training Yeah. What exactly did she do with you and how did you train your ear to be what it is today? I gotta go back in the recesses here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like trying to remember what I was doing when I was young. I think, it was really rare to have a piano teacher who did both of those things. And because we would even talk to other piano teachers around town who either taught by ear or taught classically or taught note reading. And so I think it was really rare to have both. And I think she put them together in a lot of ways. Like I was doing my scales. Yeah. And at the same time I was realizing that the numbers of that scale are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and even that connection to have a c major scale and know that this is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and that all those notes like as you're playing your chords. If we're in a diatonic mode, like we're here and then the two is this, and then the three is this, and then the four is this. Like all of that, putting those connections together at an early age was huge. And so I think because after I took from her, I taught piano for a long time, and so putting that together for young kids was like really big. If they could understand that numerically this scale. Was what it was. They could do a lot more by ear if they had that from the beginning. That's good. And I think it applies to other instruments too. I think if people can learn that on the piano, then you can see it on the guitar. And you can see it. You can hear it on the saxophone or whatever. Yeah. And so I just think that's really vital for young musicians. So it was that. And then I remember us learning. How to read chord charts. We started with a lead sheet where I could see the melody and see the chords above it and was just playing really simple three note chords. But she didn't let me stay there for very long. She was very into voicings and I am very into voicing to this day. Yes. Come on, Natalie. Come on. It wasn't ever this for very long. She was like, Ew, I don't like the sound of that. So then we practiced. How can we voice those chords in a way that moves the notes as little as possible? Absolutely. And so that's a lot of what I would teach as a piano teacher too. If we're going from here to a minor how do we change the least amount of notes? We're gonna go from here to here. Yeah. That kind of stuff was really helpful from a young age, and then I got to play around with it from there. And you make it your own if you're just right. Discovering music. I just think that's so important for us to be having fun discovering for sure things and discovering our own musical style. How do you play keys? Yeah. Yeah. And so it was a lot of that too. It was a lot of just hearing what I thought was cool and for sure. Yeah. And then my grandma was awesome because she also pushed me to write songs while I was learning how to play keys and Love that. So the first song I ever wrote was a assignment for my piano lesson. Okay. My grandma was like, I want you to write a song this week. And I was like. That seems hard. I was 10. You're 10. Wow. So I was like, that seems very difficult. I don't want to and she said it's actually really easy. I said, enlighten me grandma. How is this easy? And she said she said, I usually take the words from scripture. So she said, pick a psalm or pick something. Use those as your words, and then you're half done. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. And then you add your own melody and chords to it. I love that. And so I wrote a song from. The Psalms, let's see if I can remember this. Yeah. It was just like, I'll not fear because God is my I'll not fear because God is my strength. So I'm writing that, oh, come on now. It's not bad. Be worse to church. Could be worse. But because like I had those. Those words from scripture, it really helped it, and Wow. And still, I write songs from scripture a lot because I just, I know that those words will never return void. Like we have that promise. And so that's where I started. That's still where I am. I love that. And so it was all that together. Wow. That I felt was such a gift that she was teaching me. Yes. And that now. I still pull from, I'm still teaching myself in that cross-collateralized way. Like it's everything coming together and making connections that makes it so impactful. I love that. I love that at 10 years old you're writing and she gave you permission to say, Hey, yes, you can do this, and practical tools, that's pretty awesome. It wasn't just write whatever you want. It was like very practical. That's awesome. No, I love that. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about your album a little bit. Okay. So you said you produced a few songs. Which ones did you produce? Because I, oh God, no. Which ones fun did you produce? So yeah, I produced the live stuff. Okay. So I, okay. I love more live production, so if we can be in the studio with the musicians, like at the board. Yeah. Talking to people, calling shots, like it's, that's so fun to me. And you have piano versions too? Of songs? Yes. Which I love, which I, yeah, so I produce those. And yeah. Just so much fun to be in the studio with actual musicians these days I feel like. We do less of that, especially in Nashville. You can send it off to get guitars, you can send it off, yeah. So being in the room is what I love, so that's good. I usually get to produce those and alongside my other producers, like I'm always in that process with them. But yeah. I love production layers. Thanks. The Since I found you. Yeah. Sounds like it belongs in a Bruno Mars Thanks album. What a compliment. It starts off with that bass syn. Yep. That's awesome. Thanks. And we gotta talk about chord progressions now yep. You're not just doing the four chords you might have, you do have some songs that are the four chords. Yes. But you're doing some. Extra things in there. Some stuff that's Ooh. Yep. What are you doing there? That's not as sim simplistic. Maybe it is the common thing for in the gospel world. Yep. But not as common in the CCM modern worship world. Yep. And so would love to talk about that and your philosophy on that and why you choose these. These chord progressions. Yeah. For one thing, is it your choice? I'm sure everything is your choice. 'cause Yeah you're leading this ship here. Even though you're a signed artist, I don't want people to think. Some, sometimes it is the case that you do have a huge team and the artist is just the spotlight person. The face of it. Yeah. But you from what we know you are writing this stuff and doing this, and then your producers are taking it and making it incredible. Of course. Love it. I'm like, man, I'm listening to this stuff, and it reminds me a little bit of the latest Jonas Brothers album. Oh, cool. Yeah, like John Bellion type vibe. Love John. And it's the production's incredible for one thing. Thanks. So they're doing a great job. You're doing a good job. So talk about a little bit of the ranging the chord progressions. Talk us through specifically since I found you. Grateful for sure. Some of those fun progressions. Those are fun progressions that you get to play. Yeah. I think even some of the philosophy behind it, I think, people think we can either do four chords or we can make it crazy. It's like a very, I don't know, opposite ends of the spectrum. And I've wanted to find somewhere in the middle that would be accessible, but still interesting. And I, I studied a lot of jazz when I was at Belmont, and so that kind of gave me some of the language to navigate chords. Awesome. Which is awesome. And I love people like. Sometimes I think about Charlie Poth. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Of course. Of course. He is a jazz trained pianist. Yeah. And he makes these pop songs that are like, when you listen to him very, sometimes they're four chords and they're catchy, but they're interesting. And so I wanted to find that middle ground and the voicings and the court extensions is what does it to you, right? Yes. I think so much of it is about voicing and how you navigate. The chords that you're playing, I think you can make four chords. So interesting. Yeah. Yeah. If they're navigated the right way. So yeah, even with, since I found you, like I, let's see, what key are we in F Sharp guys? I hate F Sharp. Can we talk about. My voice loves it. It's so unfortunate. But it, nothing fits in your hand, as a keys player. Okay, so even this is the chords are like four in F sharp, one over three, four, and then major three. But we're gonna do an inversion of it. Six, and then we have a bit of a two five, so we're gonna go minor 5, 1, 7 and then back. So we go. But a lot of that is the voicing up here. I'm keeping my hand in this place. Two, three. Yeah. And then you just add little things along the way, I think another interesting thing, like in the, yeah, I just I'm, he's doing a little St effects. I'm ready. I love it. The dissonance. The clip, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it, to me in the gospel world, it's like we're trying to play 10 notes at a time. Like it can be very, that feels like a lot. It can be very overwhelming. Instead of playing 10 notes at a time, maybe we can play four. Yeah. And the voicing can make it interesting. So here. If I do, if I'm playing the four chord, but then I have the major seven and then the three, five, then maybe I can just move those notes a little bit. Yeah. Like almost all those are four note voicings, but it may, it's interesting because of where the notes are placed. That's good. And then like later in the song, I'll move that up. I'll go something like. Something like that. I love that. Yes, like it's not that many notes, but it's. Interesting the way that it's placed. So how did you learn that style and why'd you start incorporating it in your songwriting? Jazz started it. I was learning so much from just like looking at the real book, like yes, looking at chords, figuring out how melodies fell over the chords and, but then it goes back to what my grandma taught me. Like I'm playing this same chord in all different voicings. Yeah. Yeah. And then just and then that two five comes from jazz. So it's a little bit of. Lots of places that I've learned from, I think. Yeah. But it's also what's interesting to my ear which I think can change for different people. What's interesting to your ear, absolutely. Maybe that doesn't interest you. Maybe you hear it a different way and you should play it that way, so but also all the music that I grew up on kinda leans that way. I grew up on a lot of gospel stuff yes. I love it. I love it too. I love all of your music. And your chord choices. So my favorite one, which I want you to sing and play if you don't mind. Sure. Is the Long Way. That's my favorite song. Oh, thanks. Off the whole album. Which I love the fast stuff too. And the groovy stuff I like since I found you. 'cause it's so like funky sounding. Yeah. Love it. And grateful for love that progression too. Yeah. Kind of similar vibe. Similar thing. And then the All Joy, which is the title of the whole album. That's fun. And you hear a little bit more flat sevens in. Yeah. I guess today's CCC m totally music. A lot of the flat became very popular. Yeah. Jesus. What does Clark say? Jesus loves the flat seven. Yeah. Jesus loves the flat seven. Yeah. Yeah. Which he does. I think he loves music too. Yes. Clark Beckham, y'all. He's amazing. Love Clark. And in all joy you use the flat seven. Yes. You're in the key of sea for that. Yeah. We start and see, okay. Oh, okay. We don't end in sea. Talk about that. That song is for.