The Lifelong Influence of a Good Piano Teacher with Tim Abel

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Carson sits down with his childhood piano teacher, Tim Abel, for a heartfelt conversation full of music, memories, and ministry. They talk about the power of playing by ear, the journey from trombone major at JSU to worship leader, and the real stories behind leading worship. Tim shares practical tips for key players, from the basics to creative improvisation. Plus, Carson pays tribute to the amazing legacy of keys player and artist, Keith Green, who passed away in July 1982. 

Tim Abel

Transcript

Speaker: 0:08

Y'all welcome back to the Worship Keys podcast. Today you guys are in for a treat because I am with my childhood piano teacher, Mr. Tim Abel, legend, incredible keys player. Really loved this man right here. He's just amazing and your whole family. So welcome to the podcast, Mr. Thanks. C All I was was a seed Soer Carson, as a kid, you just soaked everything up and sometimes you get that student and you recognize, Hey, this, this guy's gonna use this stuff. It's not just to take up time on a Saturday or something. So I appreciate you so much for what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. You were, always an inspiration to me. You were so creative. In church. Our families go way back into church world, back in small town Alabama. And you were the Minister of Music there at Victory. And I loved hearing you play and speak. You spoke at chapel services at school and, you were a storyteller. I remember distinctly you always had the mic right here on your chin just speaking and, just, and anyway, took lessons from Mr. Tim for about three years before you guys moved outta town. And I remember when you guys were moving, I was so sad to be losing you as a teacher, because you were the first, I did take a few lessons from a few other people, but you were the first person that taught me the value of playing by ear. Mm-hmm. And. Actually understanding chords, inversions, scales, how to use that pentatonics, all these things that really changed how I approached the piano. Yeah. Was it, that's the secret. Carson, I, a lot of people know this, but I don't read music. Right, right. I was a music major in college, but back in those days, believe it or not, I was a trombone major. Okay. And, you went to JU went down to JSU, was in the marching southerners playing that trombone and played it for a couple of years, but, you know, every one of those practice rooms had a piano in it. Yes, yes. And, I would go in those and eventually I started putting the trombone down and sitting at that piano and playing and writing. Yes sir. And, uh, it was during that season when I was writing those songs and stuff that I met my wife, Ms. Terry. Yeah. And Terry is an awesome singer. She was also a music student there at, at Jacksonville, and she started singing my song. She could sing 'em so much better than I could. What a great way to start a relationship, you know? Right, right, right. So we were worshiping the Lord together and got the opportunity to travel and do some concerts and to travel to churches and do some youth retreats together. But it all started right there in those practice rooms at Jacksonville State. Wow. And to this day, I really don't read piano music. Now I know how I understand the theory, I understand the names of the notes and the stabs and all that. But as far as actually that, that connection that lets me look at a page and put it onto the piano, I know you can do that, but that's not something to this day that I can do. I've always depended on being able to play by ear. And even when I was teaching the theory, I was teaching the numbers, I was teaching the fingerings, you know, teaching the inversions and how to hear things and the baselines and all that. And a few people like you. Really absorbed it and have taken it on, and I think those, that skillset is uniquely great for what churches need these days. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Absolutely. And actually, I brought my notebook that you No, I would, uh, yeah, I went to lessons and used this notebook and you wrote in it, and this was the very first lesson. I believe the first day, maybe the second, second lesson or something. But one of the first ones. And you're talking Build a cage. Build a cage. You're talking about hand position and building a cage. You would draw, you're a great artist, so you can, you can play music, you can play, piano and sing and write, but also Mr. Tim is a great artist. You're and some of your family members, I think everyone draws too. Does everyone draw on your family? All the, all the kids do. I don't think Terry does. Okay. I was like, yeah. But, anyway, you would draw and illustrate things. You literally have a hand, and then under that hand is the little chick. And he would say, don't let the little bird, the little chick out of the cage. You don't wanna squash it. And you don't wanna let it out either. Yeah. You got the cage right, but you don't wanna squish it. Yeah. So, yeah. And you don't wanna let out. It's a pretty good analogy. I like that. I may have to ring that back. Yes. And, and then you were teaching me about, about quat. Now I was, it was right after Christmas when I was nine. And I turned 10 that year. But you were teaching me about chords for the first time, and then I just, just flipping through, you know, you were, you would, we were practicing CG and Ave just going through scales, chords, and you started writing out chord charts For me, the first ever song I think I remember playing was Give Thanks to the Lord. , pray As Good As Love Endures forever. Okay. And you were teaching me about the, the two chords, and that was the first time. It's like, Ooh, that sounds different. It sounds nice. It's not bland. And I remember doing that and you were teaching me, you're like, okay. Take that FI think you did that for a while. We did F and then you put in the two in there. Yeah. And yeah, this, can you demonstrate that? So there's an f Yeah. And there's an F too, right? Yeah. So it it has a little bit of lushness to the cord. Yeah. Yeah. And that was amazing. I was like, oh yeah, that sounds way better. And just, we started doing inversion exercises, root first, second. Well, you've even got rhythm up there. Yes. Even wrote out the notation. Yeah, you were, you were. It was amazing. I could sing of your love forever. I started putting the melody with it. And it really just got to the point of practicing scales, inversions, and then songs with it. So you are my king. That that was a good song. I can sing you love forever. You're my king sing of these dates up there. Oh yeah. 2007. I need to take some pictures of this. You wrote out Jesus Lover of my Soul. That was great. I loved, loved playing that. And I even think, I remember trying to trans, excuse me, transpose it to other keys too, when I was like 10 thinking, oh, what would it sound like in this key? Or whatever. Yeah, inversions. Yes sir. This just brings me back down memory lane. I'm a friend of God. Remember that song? Yes. Just the titles of these songs stake you back so far. 2008, because those were the songs at the time. Lord, I lift your name on high. Lord I lift your name on. On high. Yeah. Yes. How great is our God, we did that as well. Probably wrote in a few things too, but it's mostly, it's mostly you writing these different keys with the fingerings for the thing. Yes. You remember the rules for the fingerings and all that stuff? Are you talking about for the black notes? Yeah. Well, right. Yeah. And then that's what I always did, right? We did two and three. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what other people do, but yeah, that's what I always did. And that's what I think. That's what, yeah, that's what you taught me. No, when you're doing the scales, you would start with Yes. So those three would kind of lay right there. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. It was great. , I think he printed out some charts too, and we go home. Sweet, sweet. But this was when I was 9, 10, 11 years old, y'all. And he would just sit down, we'd learn scales, learn chords, chord, inversions, and then you would even, I remember you playing back some music. In the lesson two and saying, can you hear any of that? And I don't think I could at the time, exactly hear it, but you would start to like, oh, well you, you should be able to, eventually you'll be able to hear things. And, eventually I grew to be able to do that. Mm-hmm. You know, by, I don't know, 12, 13, 14, I was hearing the, the hearing, the progressions. Once I had the tool set and know, and I knew what to do and what to listen for. I remember that. 'cause you could do that. You could, you could listen back, listen to a song and then play it. 'cause you understand the chord structure of it. Yeah. Um, but I loved lessons with you. It was, it was my favorite thing and I've, I've held onto that for a long time and, um, it's amazing. I'll just, I'll just, it is just, it's just, it's amazing to me. Um, I just wanna keep that forever. 'cause I, I enjoyed the lessons, I enjoyed the, um, all the illustrations, things you wrote, you did. And I was just like, well, you know, that was my journey. And, um, I think some of us, I. Can have that a similar journey. How did you learn piano, by the way, when you were, well, not, not so different, I guess. Yeah. My mom growing up was the church pianist in a little Baptist church down in rural Alabama, down in Walker County. And, uh, for years I sat next to her on the bench while she played and started picking it up then, so five, five or six years old. And that's been, how old am I now? Did I say 66? So that's been 60 years ago. Goodness. Especially 60 years ago. But that's where the seeds were planted in me. Yes, sir. And, uh, and like I said, I, I believe seeds were being planted in you Absolutely. Back in 2008. Absolutely. And, uh, so I can't thank you enough for, for teaching me that. And then going on just, um. Um, I've always like, oh, if I could just play like Mr. Tim Abel one day, that'd be so awesome. Come on. It'd be so much fun. 'cause you would just, you would do the runs up and down. You'd do it so fluently and you would demonstrate. And I was like, oh, I wish I could play like that one day. And, um, so thank you for that. Well, you've so far surpassed food. Yeah. So I don't know about that. Don't about that. Such a blessing to hear you play. Now I don't know about that, but thank you. Um, I want you to talk a little bit about, uh, the Victory Days. I know when I was a kid and you were ministering, um, and you were doing a lot of creative things. You did things with the Kids's Choir and you, you wrote, okay. You wrote the, uh, songs for the books. Uh, books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus Numbers. I remember, I know the whole books of the Bible. Uh, forward and backwards Back Revelation, Jude Third, John. I know all that because of the, you know what that song is called? What? That's called sc l Bib. Oh, it's an actual song. You can just redid it. Sc l Bib is. Bible books backwards. Oh, oh, okay, okay, okay. That's funny. That's funny. I don't know. I thought the kids, you know, the Bible books backwards and forwards. Why not? So why not? Yeah. He, he did this, uh, you would make these, at that time, I guess it was Cas, it was cassettes you would make. And, uh, what, what years were, was it like 2003 ish? Mm-hmm. Two. It had to be, I guess that's when I remember early two thousands, I guess. Yeah. Early two thousands. Um, you know, late nineties, early two thousands, two. And you would produce these cassettes and it'd be the kids' choir at church. And, but also, and a lot of your kids would sing the solo. I remember, uh, first Corinthians 13, when I speak with the tongue, the man and of angels, I would sing that over and over again with all with your kids singing and Colin, Evan Chandler. Um, and I remember, I, I learned scripture that way and Well, that was the, that was really the intent all along. Yes. That time, that time of victory was such a blessing to me because it afforded me an avenue to, uh. To write lots of music, to work with lots of kids. And, uh, I wrote three or four musicals during that time. Recorded two or three albums with that kids' choir and almost all of it was with the intent of getting them to memorize stuff. And uh, and to this day I'll have people contact, Hey, can I get a copy of the Bible book song? I won't play it for my kids. You know, that's a blessing to me to hear that kind of a legacy going on. Yes, sir. But that's, that's the whole thing about that time at Victory, you know, it was really, I had, I had that office set up back there behind the, uh, behind the main auditorium. Mm-hmm. And it was, it was early days of recording and stuff on your own, on your own equipment. I had an old Roland digital studio. This was not software, right. It was not a keyboard. Right. It was a standalone digital studio that actually burned CDs, you know, so it was multi-track and it could record it and, and. Even digitize the mix, you know, as you're going master the thing from start to stop and, uh, did several CDs from right there in that little office. Wow. And a lot of the times, I had to admit, it would've been so much better if I'd had real guitars and uh, and real drums and a real bass player and all that. But a lot of times late at night, I would sit in there and I would, I would pro, I would sequence in the basses and the drums and Right. And all that stuff. And then, and mix it down. I listened back to some of that recently, and I told Terry, I said, this sounds so nineties. It's just, it's just a nineties sound, you know? Right, right. That words to it. And, and she said, well, you know what? It was, it was the nineties. Nineties. So, well, it, it did, it served its purpose because I learned so much scripture that way. And literally, so many Bible verses come to mind. Psalm 23, 1 Corinthians 13, the fruits of the Spirit. Mm-hmm. Um. I mean, uh, what is it, Psalm 90? Is it Psalm 91 or 19? Oh yeah, yeah. Um, 91. Right. He the dwell in he Bad dwell D in the Secret Place. Yeah. Yeah. That was a good one. That was, I always tried to put a little groove on it, you know, for the kids. That was fun, man. That was fun. I loved that. We, we played that music over and over in the car and at home. You remember the Lord's Prayer after this man are there for our father. Father Who, heaven. Yeah. That's it. That was good. That was good. Yeah. Uh, so many, so many good tracks. Um, so you recorded, so yeah, what was the recording process on that and how did you. How'd you do that? Was it pretty complex? Like, was that Well, as far as the mu the instruments went, like I said, I sequenced it all. It's all, the keyboard was all, it was either the keyboard or the modules. You know, I had, I had synth modules that, um, that I controled with the keyboard. What, what, what, what equipment and what, what were your go-to stuff back then day? That, that keyboard was not too dissimilar from this one. It was a rolling, I don't remember the exact number, but already something. Mm-hmm. Uh, I always liked this because I liked the action on the keys. It feels pretty realistic and it has some pretty good samples of grand right here on it. So in those days, that was huge, you know, especially for a guy who had, had spent a lot of time on the road traveling to little churches and having to play on the piano that they happened to have there. Right. Even bought a CP 70, I don't know if you know what, a Yamaha CP 70? Oh, yes, yes, yes, sir. I bought a CP 70 to carry with me to those little venues so that we could. Have, you know, a dependable piano, right. 'cause you never knew what you were gonna get in those places. Right. And uh, and we would carry a band with us. And in the earliest days had a band of, of guys that I met in college, and they traveled with us. And I can remember Carson sitting, sitting up in those little rooms where the whole auditorium was just a little bit bigger than this little office, you know? Yeah. Small venue. And then we've got this guy with these drums and he had this, you know, Emerson Lake and Palmer Drums, you know? Oh man. And we would literally have to set him up in a Sunday school room and run a snake back there to him and mic him up and put him into the mix because he would overwhelm the room. Yeah. The guitar player literally left his amp in the car in the parking lot, and we ran a mic out to the amp and miked it into our mix because he wanted it loud and crunchy and he wanted some distortion and stuff, you know? Right, right. And of course, you can't do that in that little room. Yeah. But, uh, that is so funny, those road stories, man. And you, so you and Ms. Terry, y'all lived in Nashville for about three years. Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? You were riding a lot mm-hmm. During that time. Yeah. We moved to Nashville. That would've been 86, 85 or 86. And, uh, yeah. It was, was my, my vision honestly was to be a songwriter. I wanted to write, you know, and, and have him recorded and played across the country in, in ministering to people around the world. And, you know, I really, really wanted that and was blessed to, to sign early on, at, uh, at Bill Gaither's label Star song as, uh, as one of their stable writers, you know, and they would, they would show me the list of what people were looking for, and I would write toward those albums and things. And, uh, I, I wrote music for about three years and I probably made a total of about, I. 37, 30 $8. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was just, it was hard. It was hard, you know? And, uh, and eventually, you know, we, we went a different direction, went into computers and all that stuff, and, and never left the music. Of course. You know, I still led worship and, and churches and stuff like that, but I, I was no longer pursuing, actively being a songwriter by trade. Mm-hmm. But it still kind of beats my heart, you know, to this day. Yes, sir. To write the music. And did you ever, you'd eventually start writing with Ms. Terry, or would you always write it and she'd just sing with you? I would write it, yeah. She was the singer. She was the voice. That's awesome. Yeah. She was the voice. And later on we did record albums that were just stylized for her voice. We have one beautiful voice, one that we did called Be Still and Know where I took a lot of the Psalms and set 'em to song and it's really almost new agey. Yeah. Honestly, you know, it's, it's uh, uh. Uh, not quite ambient, you know, but she's got that sweet voice and she would sing those psalms in there. And it was, uh, and, and again, to this day, I'll pull that one out sometimes when I really need to find a place of peace. Yeah. And just relax in the Lord and soak in those promises and soak in the Lord. And, and, uh, that was, that was the intent of that, for it to carry that anointing. And, you know, I've always believed, you know, you read about how David was used of God, the anointing on his music. And you know, I think we overlook that sometimes. You know, that old demon possessed king was in there and he couldn't find peace at all until God's anoint, anointed man came in and played the songs, played the music, and the demons. Couldn't stay there. Yes. It drove out the demons, just the anointing. Yes, sir. That David brought with him, with that music. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and I believe today as worship leaders, what an awesome privilege it is. He gives us to lead worship and come in and sit down at a keyboard and lead the, lead his body into worship. Because there's an anointing there. It does something. Yes. And those people that have been out in the world, you know, with all the worries and all the cares and, and financial problems and sickness and you know, all the stuff that people deal with, the arrows and the rocks that the enemy throws at you continually, when they come into the sanctuary, it should be a place where they can come in and enter in to the presence of the Lord. In his presence, there's, there's fullness of joy. His right hand there pleasures evermore. Yes. And uh, you, you know that I always think about. When David, when Jesus rode into, into Jerusalem that day and the children were crying out, Hosanna and, and all that, and the Pharisees fussed and stuff, and Jesus replied to them, uh, if every tongue were stilled, the the praise would still continue because have you not read out of the mouth of babes and sucking, you've ordained strength. He equivocated what they were doing to strength. Mm. The praise that was being lifted up out of the mouths of babes and sucklings you've ordained strength. And he's quoting from a psalm when he says that. And if you go back over and read where that psalm is, it says, out of the mouths of babes and sucklings, you have ordained strength to paralyze the enemy. To still the enemy. Yeah. And I believe that's what praise and worship does now, because when, when we start lifting up that, that praise and that worship entering into the presence of the Lord, it does what happened when David was doing the same thing paralyzes the enemy. Yes. So, you know what a, what a great tool God has equipped us with to face the enemy, to face life, to face every decision. Just to go in and, and praise him, and worship him, and invite that presence of the Lord, uh, in that fullness of joy. That's all, that's, that's a promise that we can, that we can grab onto, I believe. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Absolutely. What has been your most meaningful project that you've ever worked on in your whole life? Like what has been your favorite thing that you've ever worked on? Probably that be still and know that I just mentioned the one that I recorded with her, uh, because I dug deep. For those, for those songs, of course, you know, the lyrics are all right there, right, right, right. You fill 'em out, uh, be still and know that he is Lord, and that that album, believe it or not, also has. Psalm 91 on it. Okay. But it's not he that, it's not that version. It's, uh, he that dwell in the secret place, you know? And it's more, more lyric. But that's my favorite psalm. You know, there's so many promises that Psalm 91 is so rich with promises, uh, shall abide in the shadow of the Almighty. And I will say of the Lord, you are my refuge and my strength, my God, and you will I trust. And, uh, and just like the Bible book song, those verses flow out of me because the music has sewn them deep in my heart. You know, once the, once they're attached to that music, to the melody, it, it becomes something that you can come back out with. Just like singing the ABCs, you know? Right. You the ABCs with a song. Yep. You can learn the, the word of the Lord with those songs. I love that. I love that so much. Um, it is right now, uh, at the time that this episode is coming out, it is the anniversary of Keith Green's death. Mm-hmm. He died in 1982, July 28th, 1982. It's been a, been a little bit now and I talk to people, you know, in their twenties, teenagers, people in thirties too. Oh yeah. I'll mention Keith Green sometimes. Who is that? Some people have forgotten to, I don't even know Keith Green, 'cause it's been so long, um, since he was around in, in Christian world that the brief time kind of, that he was playing and singing. Keith Green was one of my favorite, artists. And I, I want you to speak on this a lot more than what I'm gonna say, but he, I, I wasn't, uh, alive to, to see him perform live or anything. I watched videos, I listened to his music. My dad bought me two Keith Green Songbooks when I was. In seventh grade or so, seventh or eighth grade, and I started playing his music. And of course his, his songbook has the notation and the chord charts. It's mainly playing the chord charts and just trying to copy exactly what he played because he would play some pretty complex stuff on the piano and to see it all written out and try to match it and do it was fun at 13 years old. But I want you to talk about Keith Green, the legacy that he left his life, his music. Um, you, you have seen him multiple times, right? So I, I think you're the perfect person to do a tribute to Keith Green and to, maybe even perform and play a song of your choice here of, of his. And what would you even say to someone, um, who doesn't know Keith Green, and what would you say about, about his life and his testimony? Yeah. Well, I can only only speak from my personal experience and it hit me in around, the middle of my college years. You know, I was a music major in school and ironically I was in the Party School of the South, you know, back then it was known as the Party School of the South. Yeah. And I went to school and intersected all together, different group of people who led me into the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I got fired up about the Lord like never before. I mean, so fired up that it even scared my family. Is he okay? You know? Uh, but a big part of my coming of age spiritually during that time was Keith Green. Keith Green was writing those songs and singing those songs and touring and doing those concerts and, uh. I did get to see him several times, uh, live and heard him play, but maybe even more importantly, heard him speak. Because a lot of times when a musician gets up in the middle of a concert and goes to the microphone and starts talking, everybody's like, oh, great. It's, it's time to go get some popcorn or something. You know? Right, right. We get take a little remission while he talks, but that was not the way it was with Keith Green because when Keith Green started talking, everybody leaned forward a little bit, and his message was so inspired and so anointed, he had a way of just reaching into your heart and saying the things you needed to hear. And a lot of times it was stuff honestly that your flesh didn't want to hear. I don't wanna know that. Why, why are you telling me that stuff? But, uh, he burned with a bright fire. He burned so bright and he never backed down. Yeah, he was, he really, truly lived that that gospel that he preached. And, uh, for instance, he would, he'd go into those concerts and out in the, in the lobby of course, you would see those tables set up with all the CDs for sale and the albums for sale and the tapes and, and all that stuff out there. And during the show, Keith would say, look, go out there and look at those things in the lobby, and if you see something that you want and you can't afford it, just tell 'em you need it. And, uh, they'll give it to you. Wow. He would give it away. Wow. Yeah. And uh, and I, I remember one night there was an album out there that I really wanted and all I had to, my name was $5. And so I took that $5 out there and I said, could I get that for this? And they said, absolutely. Here. And they gave me that album for $5, you know. Yeah. Uh, but, but. Beyond even what that music on that album did for me was the message that he preached by giving it away like that. You know, he, he let me know, Hey, I'm not just talking, I'm not just singing. This stuff is real. And because he had that attitude about it, so many people I think followed hard after that. Yeah. And, and realized, hey, there is a way to live this. Like Jesus intended for it to be lived. And, uh, gosh, I, I wish to this day I could, I could regain some of that fire that he had to, to rekindle that flame that Keith Green brought to the church. It was just awesome. That's awesome. So, for background context, he, his testimony was. Crazy. He was in the hippie movement. Mm-hmm. And he was involved with, um, a lot of, I mean, he was even signed as a, as a kid or teenager to Decker records. Mm-hmm. Um, he was in Hollywood. He was already in the music scene, in the secular music scene and playing in bars. And then whenever God just got ahold of him and, and totally transformed his life, it's funny 'cause apparently he continued to sing in those same bars, but just this time it's Jesus music. He took it to him. Yeah. Took it to him. And he didn't, he didn't like, you know, water down his music at all. It was still just as, uh, full blown on the, on the piano as, as his other stuff. But, um, and just a whole different message and, and then would basically fiery preaching, uh, the goodness of the Lord and just, um. That, you know it, but it was, his music was intense and his life was intense. Yeah. But, what is a song you'd like to sing or play for us? Keith Greens. Listen, I told Carson when he talked to me about recording this podcast. I don't sing anymore, so I'm kind of an old man now, Carson. Oh, no, no, I'm mainly in the background playing my keys, you know, but Yes sir. There's one of his songs that we did for years and still do sometimes, in a worship service. And then probably a lot of folks recognize this. They may not know that Keith did it. Uh, but it goes to same. Oh Lord, I see. Your Grace a. To me the. That bird with fear I wanna and spread, but first have me, just you and when I'm doing well, help me to never the crown for my glory to you. And Keith would go, oh, such a good one. Such a great song. Oh man, that was great. Sweet song. Yes. And he wrote so many songs that I encourage people, if you haven't heard of Keith Green, you're not familiar with his work, go ahead and get some of that stuff. But some of the stuff is so acrobatic. Yeah. Yeah. Some, some of the piano songs, Carson, I think he's better than Billy Joel. Yeah, I think so too. I think he's, if there ever was a Christian, Billy Joel, it would've been Keith. Yeah, yeah. And he would write these songs like The Prodigal and things like that. Absolute. Where he would take you on a story journey. Yes, yes. And the piano became an orchestra for him. It was just amazing. He died way too soon. Mm-hmm. Uh, how old was, I think he was like 28 or something, or I remember around 30 the day that he died. I heard it on the secular news. I think it was like on CBS evening news or something. Wow. That, uh, that Keith Green had died in a plane crash mm-hmm. And had some of his kids with him. Yes. And he was taking, a guest, I think around the area there. That story on the evening news that said Keith Green had died in a plane crash. It was like, how in the world could that light be snuffed out so quickly? Mm-hmm. But to this day, there are so many lives like mine that had been touched, impacted, and, and carried hopefully some of the same seed that he was sowing with him. So That's amazing. I wanna back up a little bit because as you were playing too, I was remembering, you were bringing me back a little bit, just being here with you in the same room. I remember, again, just looked up to you so much as a kid. And I remember one of the plays you wrote and did at Victory. I think it might have just been the, it might have just been the, the Charlie Brown Christmas mm-hmm. Play or something. But I remember being one of the kids that was like throwing the snowballs or something. Yeah, yeah. And I think I was like four or five. Wow. Sweet memories. Carson. Like, we just got there and I remember my parents tell this story, I don't remember, but they think it's hilarious. They're like, I never, I'll never forget when you came running up to us and you're like, Hey, hey, hey, Mr. Tim Mabel, Mr. Tim, Mr. Tim Mabel gave me a fart in the fle apparently. I said, and I used to stutter a lot. I kind of still stutter now, I guess sometimes, but I was, I was like stuttering and then, and then I spit it out and said. Farting the play instead of parting the play. Did you have a speaking part? No, it was just the running out, just throwing this. So really, I really didn't have a big part in the play. But those, those are sweet memories because a lot of those parts were the kids at Victory that recorded all that. Charlie Brown, another one of those blessings of working down there in victory was we would do those big, big productions of things, you know? Oh yeah. We would bring the Charlie Brown Christmas to stage. We brought how the Grinch Oak Crisp. We changed it to how the Grinch got Christmas. 'cause he got saved at the end of ours, you know? Hey. Yeah. But we built Whoville in that, in that auditorium it had this big auditorium. Yes. And we'd, we would do things like the Charlie Brown thing and I would bring those kids into my office and we would record them singing the, saying those parts. Yeah. All those lines. And we'd dress the adults up as the characters and they went on stage and did all the arm motions and pretended they were the voices, you know? Yeah, yeah. And, uh, a lot of, a lot of fun. One of the reasons we would do those things is 'cause there were so many people involved. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, when people come together with a vision like that to create something and, and to bless their community and to take a, the gospel message, I think it's, it's an, an impactful time. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. And I loved how I, I look back on that time and even now too with Modern Church World and everything, You know, I don't see that creativity a ton in churches nowadays. You kind of see one facet of one thing in a lot of different churches that it's just kinda like this one similar thing of the two to four song set list. Mm-hmm. And similar style preaching. It's evolved over time. And then you might have, may or may not have a response time, and if you do, it might be two or three minutes. And then, and that's like the pinnacle of the church creativity nowadays. I mean, of course you got production, lighting, everything like that video world, that's creative too. But as far as, I don't know. I just didn't, I don't see a lot of what you did back at Victory with the. With the writing and the, the arranging and the recording with the kids choir. I'm sure it does happen. I'm sure it happens in a lot of places, and if it does, let us know in the comments. What you're doing if you're doing a ministry like that. I don't know. What would you say to music ministers nowadays when they're ministering and especially along the lines of how it got everyone involved. do you have any, any advice, anything to say anything to speak on? Sure. Uh, on the creative side of the church world and music world ministry? Yeah. Well, again, I can only speak from my own experience, but my goal was always to replace myself and, uh, you know, if people like you, if I could sow those seeds in there, then you know, when I'm outta here, Carson's got gonna be taking, taking this on, but. Part of that chapel experience there, you know, victory had a school still, still has a school, I guess. And one of the blessings I got was to work with those kids in the school who weren't necessarily all church kids, but uh, you know, most of them went to other churches if they didn't go there. They were churched kids, but maybe not from our church. But I got to pick and choose some of those kids out of there who had, who had some music in them. Yeah. Yeah. Found me a bass player, found some guitar players and lots of drummers. And over the years, every week we would have two or three chapel services with that chapel band. And I got to spend time in there training them on how to do what we need done in worship teams and things like that. Even beyond just the music taught them the etiquette of it. You know, a lot of times, and I still hear people do this, I, I imagine you run across it where you have a really good musician in on the church band and he wants to make sure everybody hears it. And so you have this awesome guitar player who solos continually through the song, you know? Yeah, yeah. And keyboard players who are just all over the place doing all this fancy stuff. Right? Right. And I tried to teach them early on, if anybody notices you during worship, you've messed up. Mm-hmm. You messed up. You know, what you're doing is framing the picture. You're not the picture. Right. You know, you're framing this thing out. And I tried to teach them how to, how to create stylistically the palette for the Holy Spirit to move in there and do his work without us getting in the way. And so many times, you know, I, I catch myself doing it, you know, oh, there's a cool lick right here. I can, he's not gonna go into turn. Right, right, right. And I think, wow, that, that was impressive. What? And the Holy Spirit is on my shoulder. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Did you enjoy that glory? You know? Yeah. Uh, because it's what brought the enemy down originally, if I understand correctly. You know, he was a worship leader in the throne room of the most high God, Lucifer was originally. He was in there doing his music and got to looking at himself and saw himself and magnified himself to the point that he thought he should be the one on the throne. Still kind of think to this day. It's one reason people in the music industry are attacked so heavily by the wiles of the enemy, you know? So e even more than just about any other vocation, you'll see musicians and artists who are under siege by the enemy and drawn into a world, even if they were raised in church. You know, sometimes that draw can be so strong that the enemy. It has designed and you see it destroy lives and all that. But so it's so important. You know, I think as we're teaching young ones teaching, teaching kids, bringing up our worship teams, training people to do what we do, that we teach them to make sure that light is always focused up, focus it up and don't get in it. You know, there'll be opportunities where, where that gift needs to come out because it will add what needs to be added to the service at that point. But it shouldn't be a continual, so solo, a continual look at me kind of show, I don't think. Absolutely. Talk about what you do n just a little bit about what you do now. Yeah. When we moved to Virginia years ago mm-hmm. , it was for my wife to go to law school and she had homeschooled all of her kids. Yeah. Yeah. And, that was a blessing. It was a hard thing. Mm-hmm. And if you've got a mom who homeschools you go hug her right now and tell her you love her. Because what they're doing is taking that block of their lives and they're investing it in you. You know, they're taking time that they could be doing something else altogether and they're giving it to you. And she did that for my four kids. And I so appreciate that about her. So love her. But we got to the end of that season and she said, you know what, what am I gonna do now? I'm almost done with the homeschool thing and , I'm too young to be finished, what can I do? And she decided on law school. Wow. Amazing. And so she wanted to do it at Regent University in Virginia Beach. And I said, Terry, there are law schools right here close to us in Alabama. You know, you could go, you know, we don't have to move to Virginia for that, but I want to go up there. So we went up to Virginia Beach for a visit and sure enough, you know, God was directing us in that direction, which meant Carson, that after 13 years over there at Victory as a worship leader, we had to pull up our roots. Yeah. And we had some deep roots. When you live in a community for 13 years, you know, people like you, your family and all those connections, they become real. And, uh, we had to disconnect all those things and, and pull up all those roots and move away to a place where we didn't know anybody. And honestly, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I assumed I was gonna find another pl place to lead worship. I. And so I began reaching out in those directions, but I couldn't find, they all had worship pleaders already. They didn't need what I was doing. And, uh, it's kind of intimidating to be out there in the, in the cold not knowing what you're gonna do. Right. And I've got my family still, you know, I've got some, some of the kids still living with me. Yeah. And, uh, and I kept telling them, God's going to show himself strong. He's gonna answer this prayer, he's gonna bless me and it's gonna turn out to be a good move for me. And, um, after several weeks, I still couldn't find it. I put in job applications all over town and stuff, but I had some experience, uh, with computers. In fact, I had a computer degree that I had earned while living in Nashville. And I had some experience teaching and training people, and I. God made a way. And I'll never forget Chandler, you know, my son said to me one day, dad, why, why isn't God answering your prayer? Because he saw me kind of falling free, falling. You know, why isn't God answering your prayer? And it just kind of got all over me. Carson and I, I said, y'all, come here. Come here. And said, I got all of 'em around, got the kids in, got Terry there. And I said, listen, I'm gonna pray and I'm gonna pray specific, and you're gonna see God show himself strong, on your behalf here. And I prayed a prayer, a real specific prayer that God would provide me, a job that would provide me financially what I needed, would be something that I loved, where I could be in a ministry position and be close by, be convenient. I didn't wanna drive two hours to find something. You know, it was and I wish I could tell you the very next day it all came together. But I did see this, this posting for a job unavailability at the Christian Broadcasting Network, which is headquarters in, in Virginia Beach, uh, pat Robertson's ministry. And they needed somebody, as an instructional designer, somebody who understood computers, somebody who understood teaching and training. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I applied for that position. And long story short, he answered that prayer. Wow. He showed himself strong. And again, I wish it happened overnight. Right, right. But, uh, that morning I had gone to, I had gone gotten up and got my phone out and gotten some paper and I'm gonna start putting in some more applications. And I was so discouraged. You ever get to the point where you're so discouraged that I would rather just go back to sleep and miss all this And I literally, I. Put all that stuff aside, went back and got on the bed and tried to go to sleep because I was just tired of dealing with it. And as I was about to drift off, my phone rang and they were calling me from CBN in the Christian Broadcasting Network. And it was like God said, I'm here. You ready? Wow. And it became a whole nother adventure. And God opened doors there at CBN for me. And I've gotten, like you said, to lead worship for them at several things. Got to do the instructional design thing with the computers, and uh, got to do some writing for scripts and, and stuff, you know, and God gave me that creative outlet at a place surrounded by Christians and a place where I was able to minister probably to more people than I ever had in my entire life. Wow. And some of the work that I got to be involved with touched more lives than anything else I had ever done. That's amazing. So what an awesome God he is. And I've stayed there and up through COVID and they said, y'all, y'all need to take your computers and go home. We'll call you when it's time to come back. So we took our computers and went home and here we are. Yeah. This is my, my office. You know, these computers are CBNs computers and I'm still working for C bn. Yes. From home. And I'm in Knoxville now. That's awesome. Yes. So he just continues to make a way That's awesome. He always will A little closer to family. Yeah. Yeah. I have a daughter that lives here. That's awesome. Three grand babies here. It is precious. It's amazing. Well, God's blessed you and it was cool how, um, you are able to still be creative in that role and do what you love to do. So. That's incredible. I do want to get your best tips for ship keys players as far as playing goes. You taught me well when I was, you know, just for the two or three years we were together in lessons, uh, when I was a kid. But I wanna get your best practical advice Okay. Um, from you at this point. And if you guys are still listening in, thanks for being a part. And I do believe that this next section's gonna be beneficial, for the keyboard wise here as far as in inversions, voicings. One thing you were saying before we even began, uh, recording this was that kind of, we overcomplicate things. Mm-hmm. And I would love for you to, to dive deep into that as far as church world and, leading from the keys player or just being the keys player to the pianist. I've been doing this for over 40 years now. Yeah. And, hopefully I'm a better keyboardist than I ever was 40 years ago. Right, right. But the one thing that I've learned that may be the most important is this is not hard. It's not, it's not hard. And there are so many, like small local bodies, little churches that probably need a keyboard player who listen to the music and they think, oh, I can never do that. But you can. It's, it is not hard. Yeah. I mean, it used to be back in the seventies, you know, sixties and fifties songs had lots of chords. Lots of chords. These days, if you can get four chord, you can listen to the first four chords of a song. 95% of the time you've got the whole song. Yeah. So true. Yes. So,\ let's make it easy. Make it easy. Let's make it easy. So I've thought through this. The most, the easiest hack is open fifths. So let's say that I'm gonna play a song in the Key of C If you know where C is, you can find two of them and put that fifth in the middle. You're just about ready to play. Everything. Right, right, right, right. I mean, so I, I've got a few pulled up right here. Uh, I love goodness of God. Yeah. I love you, Lord, for your mercy never fails me. All my things, I've been held in your hands. From the moment I wake up, till I lay my hand, I'll sing of the goodness of God. Now, do you notice I've, I hadn't pled anything. You have not even moved over here. All I'm doing is fifths. Yeah. I mean, I haven't changed any chords at all with this right hand. Right. How hard can that be? Right. If, if I can look at a baseline and play that with my left hand, I've got this song down. Yes. All my life. You have been faithful all my life. You have been so, so good. And you're saying. Could that work for any other songs? I trust in God he will never fail. Blessed Assurance. It's all right there. It's all right there. How hard can that be? Right, you are here. Move. Add a little pad to it. Sweeten it a little bit. Moving in this place. I worship you. I worship you. Three notes. Three notes. Yes, you are way maker. Miracle work promise keeper. I mean, you know, you notice a lot of churches will actually throw a pad onto a a track. Right. That is nothing but a drone playing these things I'm doing by my right hand right now. Right, right. Now it's not fancy, but it doesn't have to be. I'm not looking to put on a show. Right. I'm looking to usher in the spirit of the Lord. Yes. Um, is it working other keys, Carson worthy of every song we could ever sing worthy of all the praise we could ever bring, um, as that course go holy. There is no one like you. There is no beside, and, and you know, there's, there's reasons why that works, but we don't have to go deep into the thing. If you ever wanted to, to go deep into it, there's. You could begin to understand the numbers and why those two notes would work together for almost every chord progression in a key. Right? Uh, but they do, you know, now you can get into some harmonic stuff where you could get into trouble with this. You know, if you're gonna kind of go into stuff that includes a black note somewhere, you know, that'll. That could mess you up. Right? Right. But how hard would it be just to drop that note down to that plain note, you know? Yeah, yeah. So if you need to, to alter it a little bit, you, you can certainly do that. But start So good. Start with how easy this is. Let's go to the key. Be flat. I just want speak the name of Jesus over every heart and every mind, because I know there's peace within your presence. I speak Jesus. Now, there's lots of other sweet things you could do with the keys. You could do some fillers in there and do that nice little lick that they do on the album. You could do all that. Yeah. And, and learn that in your time, in your time. Go in your practice room and learn all the little licks that go with it. But don't let the intimidation of playing the songs keep you from letting the Lord use the gift that he's placed in you. That's good. I mean, just learn two notes. And move the baseline. Absolutely. You can do so many things already. So good And good advice for if you are a vocalist and you kind, you wanna learn. The piano so that you can lead and sing. You already can sing. Kind of play. Just make it simple on yourself for being able to lead by just playing those. You never even have to look down, right? I mean, just that, that hand always knows where those two notes are. 'cause it never moved. You got, you've got 'em. If you know the names of the notes and you can look at a court chart and move, move your left hand, and on the base you can do that. Absolutely. One thing, it might've been you that taught me this, or it might've just been me on my own, but I, I think it was you. So if you take that so you get and see, you know, you get your fifths mm-hmm. Octaves. Mm-hmm. But if you take that and make the fifth an octave and make the one in the two, and then you can start doing this, add those colors in, and then you can do that over any of your baseline. Oh yeah. So, you know, if you learn to do these eighth notes like this instead of just. Those three notes do maybe, you know, four notes there and do a, just a pattern back and forth. Yeah. And practice that. And it's really that C two chord, but that fifth being the, the octave that is beautiful. And, and, and especially in slower ballad songs, people are like, oh, wow. It's that little beautiful thing you're doing is just those Yeah. Some magical stuff. Yeah. That's what you call an oto, you know, oto, that's those little repeating patterns that just go through the whole song, you know, and you can, I, I loved it. You can do it a minor one. Yeah, of course. We're getting more complicated with some of that, but, but yeah, I, I love the ado. Yes. Now I'll show you another trick. Let's say you don't have a chord chart, but you do know the song. Yeah. Can you play, I'm gonna show you a trick that, that I learned your, so this works especially well for hymns, usually. Yeah, for hymns. And that is grab your two notes. Okay. And the bass. And just walk the bass line down. Just walk it down. And in like, amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a rich like me, I once was lost, but now I'm was blind. But now I see. And you just walk the base line down and all of a sudden you've got a whole nother song in your repertoire. That's great. Uh, something like Rock of ages Cliff for me, just walk it down. Let me hide myself in need. I don't know the words, you know, just the, the colors that you can develop just walking in out, experiment a little bit with it. There is power, power working in the blood of the lamb. There is power, power wonder, working power in the precious blood of the lamb. All those colors were pretty, you know? Yes, yes. I kinda lock the stuff that sometimes you kind of run across some random things you think, you know, that that works really well. Right? Oh, how I love Jesus. Oh, how I love Jesus. And you know, it is really kind of a poignant, poignant, is that you say that word, uh. A song like that, uh, you are my sunshine, my only sunshine's, the happy, happy, holy truth. And this, you could make that into a whole nother feeling mm-hmm. By adding that moving baseline. And you get, you are my sunshine. My only sunshine adds depth to this. You understand what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. So a little experimentation is not hard, what I'm doing, just about anybody could, could learn to do that. Um. I'm sorry. Do you have No, that's great. Other directions. Go ahead. I love all of this so much. I, I do wanna ask you, a question that's not, not just a playing thing, but, um, all of your kids are pretty creative. As you guys were, y'all were musical, you're very creative. How did you foster that in your own children? What was your, what's your best advice to parents well, I, I'd say if you can, I. Give 'em the tools. Yeah. Create an environment where it's easy for them to get to a keyboard. If you can't get a piano, you can finally, you can, you can get a keyboard these days with little speakers built into it. Right. Right. And just about anybody can have a keyboard in their room, make it possible for them to get their hands on it. Discourage this could be hard, discourage so much video game that they don't have time for the creative stuff, because video games are great, you know, everybody enjoys a good video game. But what you're doing is tapping into somebody else's creativity, took a lot of creativity to create all that video game, all that music and all that programming and that art and all that fun stuff. Why don't you be the person who does that? Mm-hmm. You could be the person writing those tracks for what's the one with the beautiful soundtrack? Um, there's one that the boys used to play that I would just hear the soundtrack and I think, oh, that's just, it could have been Skyrim, I don't know. Really pretty music. Probably Parchman, Jeremy Soule I think wrote it. Okay, okay. Yeah. Beautiful. Just a not familiar, amazing tracks, you know? Yeah. But given the tools we bought, you know, there's, I've got guitars, I've got violins, I've got keyboards and stuff. A lot of the stuff that I bought when the kids were little. Yeah. Just so they would always have access to the tools and computers, you know, let them start working on the computers early on. But Chandler, for instance, I came in one day and Chandler said, Hey, hey, listen to this dad. And he was probably 13, 14 years old, you know, listen to this. And he had sequenced the Harry Potter soundtrack. Really? With all those sweeps of the strings and all that stuff, he had listened to it and gone in and sequenced and tracked it out. Wow. Yeah. Uh, I think it was garage band he was using, but I was blown away. I mean, it sounded legit. And so you've got the, you got access to stuff we were talking earlier. Yeah. Uh, in my day, getting studio time to record stuff was golden. I mean, it cost so much money, much less to hire the musicians that you needed to pull stuff off. Right, right. But these days, you know, with garage band and a computer and, you know, a, a keyboard, there's a whole new world you can create. Right. That it's a world. Right. So give them those tools, but, you know, create that creative space for them. My kids grew up watching us do it all the time, you know? And I was continually writing, continually working on this production, continually doing stuff and involving them. Those, my kids were involved in that chapel band, you know? Yeah. Chandler would play drums or guitar or what? And they grew up, those chap, those chapel boys, by the time I moved to Virginia Beach, not that I'm bragging Okay. Bragging a little bit. Go for it, man. I had the best worship band in town. Those boys were just killer musicians. Yeah. Yeah. And they were good. They understood the concepts, they understood what we were doing. They loved the Lord. And, uh, what a blessing to see kids come up through that kind of training and use the tools. Yes. I love that. I love that. Mm-hmm. And you have a 1975 mogue, is that right? I do. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Some of you guys will know what I'm talking about. It's the mini mogue, you know, the one that actually folds up and you prop the thing up. It's got all the knobs and all the, the stuff on it. Played that thing right toward the end of high school and the beginning of college, you know, when it was cutting edge stuff back then. I graduated from high school in 1977, believe it or not. And I grew up listening to Prague Rock. You know, I listened to a lot of Yes. And Rick McMan was playing those keys in there, and he was using things like the Mellotron and the Moog and, and when I had the opportunity to go to a pawn shop and buy a Moog. You think I'm passing that up? You know? Yeah. So I was scrimp and save and get a, get the moog. And, and of course, you know, digital keyboards have made those things obsolete years ago, but it's a sweet keepsake. Know I've got a CP 70 as, it's the Yamaha Electric Grand Piano. You know, that literally has strings in it because when we were traveling, we needed the piano. , I could take that thing and it comes apart into two pieces and both of 'em weigh about as much as a car. Right, right. And it takes a, an army of people to move it all in for you and set it up. But you had a nice little grand piano. I still got that thing out in the garage too. That's awesome. I should probably do something with it though. It's just collecting dust now. I was there when the DX seven was born. I remember the DX seven coming out and many of the keyboard guys will know what I'm talking about. It was, it was kind of a landmark digital instrument that made it possible. It was the one that Chicago used on those, except they used that tinkly, uh, electric piano sound, you know, and all that. The DX seven came out and I spent hours programming the DX seven because it was a programmable instrument. You could create your own instruments, create your own electric pianos, and I created a lot of sounds and. Eventually, Carson came to the point where I realized I was spending too much time, too much time on the programming because there were a lot of people better than me that were already creating the best sounds available. My time would be better spent practicing my craft, you know, playing, playing the music and learning to, to do the songs right than learning to make the programs. They didn't need me doing that, but it was so fun, you know, it was so fun to actually have a, an instrument, a tool that, that gave you that ability. That's amazing. Well, God's not done with you yet. Are you still playing piano in, in church now? Are you still leading, are you guys still singing together? What, what does God have for you in the future? Yeah, yeah. It's, I'm not the worship leader at a church anymore, but I do play keys every, not every Sunday, but a lot. I'm in the roster now just to be a, a keyboard player and it's a blessing to me to do that, to, to get, to be a part of what God's doing these days and I hope that never goes away. I hope I always have at least some venue to use the gifts that he's given me and maybe some venue to, to pass the gift along to some other people. Well, I wanna thank you again for, the impact that you've had on my life. I, you're a hero to me, and, just so excited to feature you here on the Worship Keys Podcast. It was great to talk to you and likewise, see you again in person in the flesh. Just God's blessed you so much and, just thank you again for, welcoming me here to your home. Me and Holly are here right now, visiting you guys today and a random tornado warning today, which was interesting just before we started. Yeah. We were like, oh, there's a tornado today. That's strange. But thankfully everything I think is, is okay. I have to tell you. We have a nice grand piano. A nice Yamaha Grand in the living room. Yes. But Carson wanted to use the keyboard. No, no, no. It's true. It is true. The room is too small for a regular grant. Just take up the whole thing. Mm-hmm. You don't need the furniture. Yeah. But anyway, guys, thank y'all for tuning in. If you made it to the end, congratulations. I hope you guys enjoy the rest of the week. Again, if you have never listened to Keith Green music, go listen to it. But do you have any last words to