How to Produce Demos & Multitracks in Logic Pro X with Roger Ryan

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In this episode of the Worship Keys Podcast, host Carson Bruce is joined by the renowned eight-time Grammy-nominated producer, singer, songwriter, artist, and professor, Roger Ryan. Roger dives deep into his creative process for building multi-tracks from scratch using Logic Pro X. He shares his experiences from working with various music production tools over the decades, tips for creating a dynamic production environment, and the importance of listening and orchestrating for worship services. The episode also includes practical demonstrations of Roger's techniques and insights on how to improve worship key playing. Perfect for musicians looking to enhance their skills in music theory, gear, industry insights, and ministry.

Check out Roger Ryan Music's website

Transcript

Speaker: 0:08

Welcome to the Worship Keys YouTube channel. My name is Carson Bruce, so glad you're here. We talk all things music theory, gear, industry and ministry for your worship keys playing. If this episode is beneficial for you or you have any questions as you continue to watch, feel free to comment below and I'd love to hear any feedback that you have along the way. So let's get into today's episode. A hopeless case. An empty space, if not for grace. Amazing grace. How sweet the sound. I once was lost, but now I'm found a hopeless case, an empty space, if not for grace. A hopeless case, an empty space. If not for grace. If not for grace. Ladies and gentlemen, back on the podcast today, eight time Grammy nominated producer, singer, songwriter, artist, professor, and I'm just so grateful to call him friend. Mr. Roger Ryan, welcome to the Worship Keys Podcast. Thank you, Carson. Absolutely. It's good to be here. And thank you for allowing me to come back to your home studio. Those of you who are watching on YouTube, or if you're listening on podcast, glad you're here as well. You'll probably wanna switch over to YouTube for this episode, I should say, because Roger, you're about to show us on the computer, open up some secret sauce that you do. So Roger, a few months ago we did an episode on How to Build Multitracks, and it was our first episode on how to do this, and it went really well. People were like, Hey, we'd love some more content like this. And I knew we had to get you on to get your perspective on building multi-tracks from scratch. And that's what we're gonna do today, guys, with Mr. Roger Ryan here. You've been in the music industry for decades now. And now you've been a professor through Berkeley College of Music, but in Abu Dhabi, I'm not really a professor. I'm more of like a clinician. Okay. Okay. I'm honored to be there. I just don't want to get the wrong information. And I'm a part of a wonderful program called The Pearl Program. Okay. Performance Arts and Leadership. It's 12 weeks. Very intense. Very fun. Four, no more than six students, one-on-one with them. I'm responsible for the first leg, which is the songwriting and pre-production arrangements, so to speak, primarily on the songwriting part of it and the structure of it. I do some master classes on rehearsal techniques, turning your feelings into songs. I do a group songwriting session, which for the last few years when we write the songs, we actually perform them at the educational symposium that we have at Berkeley now with, with all the teachers in the region. So it's been fun, but I'm not a professor. Okay. Okay. At all. Clinician. Clinician, I always say I love music and I love people. And that's definitely, that's really it. I mean, don't let the order confuse you people first, obviously music, uh, after. But those, that combination is what has always been my, my motto for quite a long time. Absolutely. And it's apparent that you love people. So you're a returning guest. Roger is a returning guest to the OR Keys podcast. You've probably seen him before. But I wanna thank Roger for being one of my first 10 episodes. You're on number six. Episode number six. So if you want to actually learn more about Roger's upbringing, how he just learned the piano by ear. He was at the piano, sitting down, just picking out notes at the piano. His parents were like, oh, I guess he can play piano if you wanna learn that. See where he went to college actually in Alabama in the United States. How his career kind of progressed influences his colleagues' journey with the people in Take six and CC Winans and the list goes on and on of people he's worked with, um, and been friends with over the years too. If you wanna hear all about that episode number six. check that out. I can't believe Roger, we're on 70 something episodes now. That's 'cause you're a boss. No, no, it's not because I'm a boss. But also thank you for, connecting us with Mr. Ralph Lofton and Mr. Virgil Stratford. Oh, when we had our organ specific episodes. Roger, the super guys wants to thank. And, honestly, that whole series was, uh, thanks to you, um, for that. Because you got me connected with Marcus Perry. Oh, one of my sons. And Marcus is amazing. Yes, he is. And we're gonna have Marcus on the podcast. He's, I told him, I was like, we gotta have you on the podcast. Gifted, talented, humble, probably one of the, one of the underrated musicians in this town. He's an amazing musician and probably more of an amazing person than he is musician, which is. Incredibly wonderful. So, absolutely. But thank you, thank you for that. Today's episode all about multi-tracks, all about, studio world really, and that translate into church world. We have a lot of church musicians who are watching the podcast every week and wanting to get inspiration, you know, edutainment education and entertainment, both. But before we jump in to you actually building your multi-tracks from scratch, which we're gonna get to, by the way, don't skip ahead too far, uh, too soon. But, um, a few questions for you, Roger. And by the way, we have a, a Christmas specific episode, episode number 35. So if you wanna hear him, re-arm some Christmas songs, check that out too. So some questions for you, Roger. You use Logic Pro X now? Mm-hmm. You love it. You've used it for years. You love Yamaha pianos. I wanna talk about gear for a second. Digital audio workstations, tell us when you started in the nineties. What were you using then? What was the technology? What was the standard? And take us through. Yeah, let's just start there. What were you using then? I'm laughing because it was the Dark ages. The dark ages. I was working in a studio in Bedrock. Yeah. Where the Flintstones are from, well, there was a program called Studio Vision. Okay. Which doesn't exist now. Um, and I ran that on, an Apple two ci Okay. Which I think ran 33 megahertz or something like that. Really? Okay. That was, oh my goodness. Yeah. And then I, I still have my Quadra six 50 in my storage room. Okay. Which was an upgrade and I thought I was doing something and I had a screen. It was this big. No joke. Big white monitor. Yeah. The curved screen and it was green. Oh, wow. And that's what I was running, that's how I started. Amazing Digital performer. And you're doing multitracks on that. Oh yeah. It had multitracks, it was MIDI intensive, you know, and you had to have the MIDI time piece. Now you have USB and you can plug it directly into your computer. Right. And go right to work. yeah, back then that was the way to, um, to run stuff. I had a, a rolling JV 80, which I ended up giving to, one of the folk at the church I used to direct music at, they needed a keyboard, and eventually I just gave that to them. Yeah, that's what I used. I think after vision, I started, using Digital Performer, which was a crazy, huge upgrade. But I think before I got to that envision, we were dumping music to eight ads, so we would sync the computer up with the eight ads. Now, the sounds really, you really old, however, the converters on the a ats. Actually sound great. And they still sound great now. But they're high-end broadcast. And so the machine had a front load and you popped them in just like, like a VCR, however, the kind of tape on it was different. It was broadcast. Gotcha. And so if, depending on how many machines you had, you could have each machine ran eight tracks so you could run, you know, up to five if, if they sync up without causing any problems. And that's how you'd have, you know, 40 tracks. Or, you know, if you ran four, you know, and you have 32 tracks and you know, back then you, um, you write the tracks out. I, I had track sheets, I made custom track sheets and then printed them and you wrote all this stuff down. Now it's software and Right. And you save everything and people still don't label and they got software. They still send stuff without labeling, which is crazy. Um, and then after vision, the major hall was, you know, faster computer. The towers started coming in then and, um, digital performer. Okay. Digital performer is actually a really great program. Um, it did midi and it did audio easy, you know, you had to learn it, but it, it really was an upgrade as far as your work, your workflow at the time. Unlike logic now you had to create audio files to, to bounce midi. Okay. So like, if you'd worked on a song, you had to actually record the midi as if you were recording vocals. Got you. You know, logic, you just bounce it and it bounces the media's audio. Right, right, right. Completely different. Yes. So it took a little longer, but we didn't know any better 'cause there wasn't anything else doing that yet. I started using Logic, but I was programming music and logic, taking the two track mix into digital performer. 'cause I was faster on the recording side, cutting the vocals, cross fading, you know, almost his naturalist breathing. I was doing a project in Trinidad and Tobago and they were a logic room and I actually even tried to upload, a ditch performer, but it just didn't work internet-wise or system-wise. And so I ended up learning Logic on the fly. Mm-hmm. The audio side of logic. Okay. Which made me better at Logic and made it at Logic when I came home. And so I just completely, I still have dig on my computer, but I use primarily use, uh, logic. Some of my older files that were digital performer, I converted them the ones that I could, because there was a very weird proprietary audio thing that digital performer had that logic didn't, and it, it got weird. Now everything is all waves, you know, wave files. Right, right. But even the standard MIDI files, you know, some of them I saved and some that I didn't. They're just gone. I'm actually working on a project now with a friend of mine, Deanna, she lives in Vegas now. She's from Berkeley. And, doing this pop record, it's. Traditional pop. So we're taking big band, we're taking tunes in kinda like a female Mike Bule. And we started a while back and I, the midi files are gone. So I'm actually replaying the piano on these songs. Oh man. 'cause we're about to, to do something with it. Really cool project. We got Mark from Take Six singing on it. We've got, you know, really cool songs. I'm Your Baby tonight. Back in Baby's Arms. Patty Loveless, just a girl. Gwen Stefani, Kings of Leon used somebody it could live strings on it. It's really cool. A song called Skirt Chasing. And there's one other which I can't remember, it's six of 'em. But, yeah, fun record. I've had to recut the piano on the ones that I've decided I need piano on. Just Dance Lady Gaga. Okay. So now I'm in Logic World. I do love Logic. I have tried some of the others. Unless it's really earth shattering and it's gonna make my workflow better and make me make everything so, so much better, I don't wanna learn nine different, you know, digital audio workstations just to say I know how to use 'em. Mm-hmm. They have to be beneficial to what I'm doing, my workflow and for me, logic has been primarily the one that works the best. That's awesome. Yeah. Even with the take off of Pro Tools from over the decades, you still just bounce down your way files, send it over to Jeff Pitzer for mixing that doesn't have any issues. Do you ever wish you did have Pro Tools for certain projects, maybe, or No, no. Pro tools, you know, to me at the time was, uh, recording software and mixing software, which I think is. Great. adding MIDI to it. I don't know if that, you know, I, no disrespect to them. I wouldn't have, you know, maybe I would've added enough MIDI for, you know, like if there's a person using digital piano and they want to trigger that and then trigger their stuff back. But the programming, the intense programming of it, I'm not sure what that move was. I don't know if it had to do with commerce, you know, being as viable. I think Pro Tools became very, user friendly and relevant when they allowed people to use their own audio interfaces as opposed to the proprietary DSP stuff that they had that was just so expensive. Nobody was buying it, you know? Right. Or only certain people could buy it. I don't know that MIDI has made the Pro program any better or worse. Most of my work has been mixed in pro tools, probably 90%. And then I have engineers, you know, like Marcelo Pinnell, who is, he's a guru and he mixes in, , logic and mixes the heck out of it. So I think it's still the driver. It also depends on what kind of car they like to drive. Right, right, right. So, um, yeah, uh, nothing against Pro Tools. It's beginning of my production career. Like my very first record, big record was mixed in Pro Tools, you know, and and everything after that. Mainly Pro Tools. So. Awesome. And recorded in Pro Tools. So guys, whether you're getting into Pro Tools, Ableton Live, FL Studios, logic Pro, like what Roger's gonna be working in today. How we're recording this podcast right now is through Logic as well. Love Logic. Pro X comes with Apple Products. If you already have a Mac, MacBook, you're ready to go with Logic Pro. Whatever you're using though, same concepts for building your multi-tracks and midi iss. So good. And logic's. So user-friendly and easy just to pull up a new track. I think it is, it's, I think it's the most user-friendly than anything. Just like pretty much all Apple products, right? Your iPhone, your MacBook Logic is gonna be all intertwined. And the new updates are incredible. Have you updated recently? You know, I've been gone. So when I got back, I, I just did the update. I had a little glitch with one of my interfaces, but, power cycled, it spoke with the folk and, you know, we're up and running. I mean, I have a, a number of interfaces I used for different reasons in the studio. Everything's running fine. That's awesome. Yeah, and I'm really excited to see what you're about to play here from scratch, so I don't wanna take up too much time. So am I. So am I. This is completely from scratch. It's all original. I was kind of picking Roger's brain and seeing like what he might do and he is kind of showing what he, where he might go. And this is gonna be completely original, if you know Roger. He, he loves to actually create, it's, nothing's ever cookie cutter or predictable with you, Roger, which I love. So, um, anyway, our, if you're ready, Roger, let's just, let's just get into it. I will be still. I will be still. Yes. I I'll be still. I'll be still. Yes, I will. I will be still, I will be still, I will be still and know, you know you are God. Right. Stuff that I, for me, yes. Okie dokie. Welcome to my studier. And so when I'm working on production, if I'm not cutting it live, and if I'm cutting it live with players, that's a totally different situation. Sometimes I like to control, so to speak, the arrangement, and then I will still send it to players. And I never tell them what to play. I just send him the tracks. And the guys I love to use Anton Nesbitt, a bass player. He thinks like a producer. Just an incredible bass player. And he's an incredible person, more than he is a bass player, which is a great combination and I love working with him. We've been working together for a number of years. I love to work with, uh, a number of drummers, Steve Brewster, my brother and my friend for so long, I. 25 years, if, if not more. And, he's played on so many, projects with me and for me. And, I let him produce and I follow him. He gives me advice and I follow him. Um, Joshua Lutz, Michael Gaines, incredible creator and programmer, producer genius, the world has yet to hear more of. So I send this stuff to them. Sometimes it's a click track and it's a, a midi file with an idea I think works. Mike might send something back drum wise based on what I send him. And then I go back in and I start playing everything over. Same thing with Steve and even with Anton. When those guys play on the stuff, I go back in and replay everything. 'cause it's no longer in my head. It's out of my head. And now I'm actually hearing the idea I had for the drums and for the bass and what harmony he plays against what I did key wise. And then I go back in and I play that stuff over. To the band, if you will. Even sometimes when I hear back from Josh, depending on what he's done, sometimes he doubles what I've done. Sometimes he does something cool. I'm like, that's cool. So I'll change the chord or maybe double his line or double it with something else. I'm always listening to everything else. It's never this, for me, with the production, it's always this, and I don't sit in the room and, Hey, can you play this line? Can you play that line? I'm really hearing this, I don't do that. I feel like these guys, they're so great at what they do. I'd be cutting their hands and cutting the hands of the arrangement to production, telling them exactly what to play. They're such great players and they have such great facility and interpretation of the music, any kind as it turns out, that it would be kind of stupid for me to stop them, you know, unless I need an exact line. And if it's something that's doing that in the song, they actually do it anyway. So, you know, um, I, I don't know that I've ever asked for anything back except maybe play more because they're so tasteful and they really help make what I do special. Uh, nothing without my team. And then Jeff Pitzer, the mixed guy. He is one of my best friends and an incredible engineer. And as it turns out, so Michael is one of my best friends and brothers, and Anton for sure. These are people that we have deep conversation besides music and it's all love, you know, which is what this is all about. Anyway, so, all right, so I have this song new friend, artist that I've met out in Dubai. And she has this song that she did, some years ago, a song called Tolerance. Very interesting, the way it's con constructed, I actually put it into the BPM meter to get a tempo. And it, it's so inconsistent. It gave me something that I didn't like. So what I've done is I've come up with my own tempo, but I'll play a little bit of it so that you can kind of hear what's happening. I'll move into where I want the rhythm to happen. Um, see, we different, but we all smile the same it from the heart. Hope is never in pain. Church, not color, but see the world by we all cry when we bleed. Okay. So the first thing is I'm listening to the chords, which. Like they do in those TV shows where they do cooking. I prepared a chart already, so I just wrote some chicken Scratch My Chicken Scratch is for me, it's not one that I'd give to somebody else. It's not conventional. I put things in there and probably things I'm gonna change that I'm changing already as I write it. And so I'm listening to this and the first problem is it's rebato, which is not a problem. But I like to get people's attention almost right away. So the first thing that I want to do with that is, you know, get a tempo kind of thing. That kind of thing. Right. And then there's a rhythm that happens. It's interesting as well prove that love stronger, let the head away. So it's got this almost som thing happening. It's, it's cool and, but it's saying something really strong and it's in minors, which is fine, but minors sometimes makes things feel sad. And this is talking about loving people stronger and love being stronger and that sort of thing. So then I'm gonna fortify that with the rhythm. The first thing I'm gonna do is maybe speed it up a little and give something a little more, rhythmically involved and more world music. 'cause you can tell she has an accent. So she's from another country. Uh, I think France is where she's from originally. There's more I can tell you, but I won't. Really, really wonderful, um, person and human and really great to, to actually make her acquaintance, um, so I went into stylists. Which is one of the, one of the go-tos I like to use for just starting arrangements. Sometimes I'll go in and find something that I like, and I'd still use it for certain things if I need congas on a song, groove elements, different things like that. I do love battery and I have kits and customized kits. My brother, Randy Ryan, who is one of my production partners, lives in New York and we, you know, he makes those really cool kits that come out of New York to, to keep me relevant. However, for this particular piece, I decided to use this. So the chorus will have this groove when you're listening to this immediately, there's movement already happening. So on the chorus, if I start playing this, and I'm probably gonna either do, probably use roads on this part. So going to the second verse, you know, maybe, but this groove just does something for me. So decided to use it I'm definitely gonna do piano at the beginning, and probably not bring this in right away. I'll have to do a little movement on this part. I'm gonna forget this piece for a little bit and work with just the piano. Sometimes when I'm doing stuff with the piano or anything, I like to make a metronome. I like to use snaps for my metronome. This is a, a custom kit that my brother put together for me. It's got all kinds of really nice goodies in there. It's definitely not a generic kit. These are all custom and I could tell you where some of these samples came from and who he's worked with, but I won't. So these are, this is a really special situation, but these snaps are cool, and if you have battery, obviously you can turn the volume up. The other thing you can do is if you have any kind of, device, like I have the MP D two 18, you can have full volume. You can change the volume here and have even a, a better attack if you're gonna be using it depending on what you're using. And of course then, you know, you trust your engineer to, work with that, but we're not using the snaps necessarily for that. For this particular piece, it's part of my metronome. That way I'm doing two and four and that way I'm not rushing. I like to try to be in the pocket sometimes just a little bit, but behind be if I can without rushing, which is a thing. So that the rhythm actually really sticks out. So we'll do some snaps first. Yes, I do have a British accent from every now and then. Let's hit a flat. All right? And then when I get that, of course it's not. As even as I want it to. And the strength, I bring it down to 50, sometimes 49, and then I quantize that so that it's more uniform, but I have it at 50. So it's not this strict thing, it's more natural feeling, if that makes sense. And then your logic guys, I'm sure you have all your various shortcuts. This is sort of mine. Make sure that it's behaving so now we've got snaps. So I'm gonna use this just at the beginning, just for the piano part. I don't know what I'm gonna do through the intro yet. Keys Scape is an incredible program. And I love it. So these are just different settings that I've used for my settings. So it's, it's primarily a piano, but the studio piano, I probably changed a couple of the dynamics. I probably tweak the compression, the EQ so that when I come up for this one and it's nice and warm, so, you know, but yeah, it's a cool, you know, so I, I have different settings. I have Roger's piano. I have a Rhodes that I like sometimes I name it by the artist that I'm working on. I actually have a piano and a Rhodes mix that I like, which is, you know, owed to David Foster that's, uh, stealing home. David Foster did the soundtrack, Jodi Foster and Mark Harmon, and I went to see that I was on tour and outta college with a group called The Heritage Singers, and we were somewhere in Washington state. And of course I went to see the movie because David did the music and, turned out to be a cool movie. But the music. Anyway, and you know, David made this sound very famous in a lot of, you know, so, um, really, really great sound. And I have tons of others, but for today I'm thinking I'm gonna use the studio piano, and if not, then I'll, I have a soft pop that I like to use, some with verbs, some without. I have all kinds of stuff, just depends on the, the song and depends on the project. And I also think about the voice and what will actually feel good against the voice. Eventually. This song will definitely have acoustic guitar. I'm old school, I like to use real acoustic guitar, so probably gonna be working with Josh on this piece eventually. But the beginning part, as I was saying, the snaps, what happen. I'm not sure what I'm gonna play, but. You know, and then the verse comes in, I'm gonna change her phrasing as well. Maybe something like that. And that's just a first idea. Sometimes I don't even do an intro. Sometimes I'll just go right in, right? The snaps make me feel like this might still be a little fast. I don't want it to drag, so I might take it down from 75, 76 to 75 beats per minute. Um, and this is all still experimentation as I am developing this idea. Alright, so here we go. Oh, no intro this time and this time it made. I felt like stopping this time. It feels a little dark to me. The piano. What do you think, Mr. Bruce? So I'm going to try something a little brighter. Just a little brighter, and maybe. Right now I'm getting a little more adventurous. Just thinking something a little different. And the whole idea with this thing is actually a simple situation. So I'm not trying to make it, you know, like we're not trying to do that. We're staying true to what's happening. So space is a dynamic and so I'm going to leave space for the other elements. Right, right. Intro and then. Right. So that's where we'll probably bring the drums in. So we'll move these over. Um, and the way to move stuff over, of course you can use ticks, you can use beats, or you can just yell at it, which doesn't work. And let's see where that ends. Okay. All right. So from here is where I'd probably use roads maybe the second time or you know, and then, or space, right? Dunno yet. So I'm just gonna pop in the roads there. So applied acoustics, I'm one of the sound designers on their latest, lounge lizard. And so I may end up going back and using one of their roads. Who knows, maybe I'll pull it up right now. Yeah, I just did that actually while I was in Abu Dhabi. And. Um, it was actually cool, to be amongst some really great players and, make a library. So here's Roger's Library and it's on acoustics, so sound designers. Me. Yay. And uh, yeah, I've got different, those are daily tines, Roger's sauce. I might use this. It's actually kind of nice sounding okay. And it actually sounds cool. Meed with, uh. My other roads that I created. So, so sometimes yes, you can layer stuff and, um, that's actually fun. Okay. All right. So we're going back here and keep this as simple as we can. Okay, so when I'm listening to this, I'm thinking strings already or like a pad, right? Sometimes I'll do it in sections and start putting ideas down. Definitely a base. In a case like this, I like spectrasonics and I like trill. And I like the Fretless base, even though this is an interesting possibility. This, upright John Patitucci base. Depends, right. Um, I like the fret list 'cause it's more flexible. Even in some songs I'll use both basses or two or three different bases depending on what section of the song is, just to get the effect that I want out of, you know, out of the, that section of the song. So just trying different things that, okay. Really, I'm wondering about the harmony more than the groove right now. All right, I'm gonna keep that for now. And so I'm kind of arranging as I go along. So now I want a little symbol swell action leading into that. And symbol swells don't always work for everything. I want to use it in this case because the kind of vibe on the song feels like. Yeah, it would work for this song. Sometimes it's cool for a transition. Sometimes the transition can happen without it. Um, and these are actually real samples. They're really quite groovy. They're smashing, they're switched on. They're a little bit of all right. Huh? How about that? All right, so we've got a little symbol swell still not really sold on the base yet. All right. More sounds. So, pads, I have a lot of pads I like in Omnisphere. And then I, I use UVI, I use Falcon. Sometimes I use combinations of them. There's this crazy thing with chords. I don't know why I like that. I just had to play that. Okay. Some of these I, um, so now they're a little bit above what's happening, so it kind of, all right, so I'm probably gonna pop this in here. Now that space on the top leaves space for strings. So. Um, did you guys hear that? I rushed it. Okay. And it does have that somber serious message, even though you don't want it to burden people. Then I'm gonna start obeying sonically what's happening, and I like to use Fifth Vox, and I have it actually edited it. Yes, as the name suggests, it's in fives, however. When I use it, it's not always in fives 'cause I have it edited, so, you know. All right. So primarily just for vibe. All right. And maybe another note, maybe hold one and it, it flows into that. Just this is just, you know, for demonstration and put it back here. And then there's a nice desert flute that I like to use sometimes is, this is all kind of, you know, happening in here in my head. So coming out of this, we already know what the verse is gonna sound like with the rhythm 'cause we know harmonic what's happening. I guess that's one thing to point out to when I'm working on this stuff, I'm always singing in my head, thinking about the vocalist and going after. Their voice and the things that I hear them do and the things that I'm thinking they can actually do. So some of the phrasing I've already changed based on what I'm playing. And so I'm gonna change the phrasing and then guide the artist. When we get to a vocal demo situation. So important on the vocal production thing. You know, don't just hear what you're playing. Always be listening for the singer and be open to changing things for the singer, that's what production is. Um, you know, this sing here, sing here, sing here. And then I'll just chop it up and fix it. That doesn't actually help a singer become even a better singer. They don't chop up when they sing. Live better to get sections if you want to, and maybe have them sing all the way down and, and then go into certain sections and. Give your suggestions and such and such, gives them better continuity, um, and gives you a better sense of what's going on. Yes, it's going on in here, but it's not about you. It's about them. It's about communicating to them and getting out of them the best and getting them in bits and pieces may not necessarily always be the way to do it. Doesn't mean sometimes you don't need to. Just an idea. Right. So back to the second verse. So I'm. I'm kind of re harmonizing that. They should do that at the end of the second verse as opposed to their, and the second time, maybe now double the Melly, maybe with another instrument, you know, leaving it open. So let's see how that works. We're punching everybody together here. I. So both mates are playing space. Okay. I can't remember what happens after that goes to the bridge or there's a breakdown, so we'll just kind of stop there. Okay, back at the top. I am not sure what's happening there, and I think that's a two chord that I played there. Coming outta that right there. Let's go past that. Go back. Okay. So. It's gonna stop there and then just pedal backwards. Some, one of the string sections I do like to use and I've got like three or four edits are the power strings. Yeah. So, um, yes, I enjoy. Strings as a vel, of course, in this case, more like a or just two, and that will be a different sound altogether with the high strings. This is the first chorus, so I, so here, probably go back with the pad and there could be a transition there with a sound. You know, it could be guitar, it could be maybe an arp. I don't know. I like the space. So we leave the space for where the vocal leads us back in. Okay, so now we have. A pad thing there. And then on the second one, we're bringing the string here. Right. Um, I'm gonna do that again. Listen to another edit. All right, one more time. The reason I have edits is because Jeff wants me to take certain effects off of the string so that he can actually deal with it and mix. All right? So trying to decide at. Which, how do I want to play this? I don't wanna be up here too much just yet, but you know, maybe here, especially if the roads is not gonna be there, then this kind of takes. Place in that space of where the road's playing those low nos in. And, uh, okay. Um, desert flutes. No, not you's. Kind of a cool little. Arabian is great. So here is like idea, right? And that just adds a really nice little layer. So this is LA scoring strings and I like using them for high strings pits. You can create your own presets and then save them. For example, this one is gonna be just violin pits. That feels a, okay. So I would probably do this with, a cello. And do an octave. Now I'll have a little more character. Hi string. All right. So how about, hello Cello? So like, there's never like a final answer. You know, I, and most guys who are out there, you know, you producers, I'm sure you've already experienced, you know, you get to, to mastering and mastering, isn't it? You go back and, hey, you know what? Don't master yet. I gotta go back and do this, or let me call my engineer and get a different mix on this or a different level. You know, it's not all the time, but sometimes something happens and you feel like you need to do that, right? So, like here, I'm arming this now, but I'm using pits for the, so I'm gonna use the lower stuff and I'm gonna call this low picks and I'm saving it. So now I have two different things now. Now I have the low pits. Usually when I'm doing my string octaves, I do it right, so, you know. And so it just grows from there depending on what you want to happen. Now I'm thinking about the vocals. I saw something that said Middle Eastern and Perk, so like, I'm curious, what did I use that for and what does that sound feel like? So am I going to use it on this song or am I not gonna use it on this song? You know? So yeah, I mean this is primarily what I would do. Like if I was gonna add a high string line, maybe I would, you know, in the second verse while the, this is happening. And another thing I like to do sometimes is do the unconventional. So, so the Doobie Brothers, the Powells out of, Connecticut, they have this wonderful plugin called Peculiar Sounds. It's just so soulful. It's so cool. So with something like this, I might like, so I might drop out the, the roads here, for example, like on the second verse, just for variety sake. Let's do a little chopping, not to be confused with chopan. I just wrote that. Thank you so much. All right. So, uh. For example here. Right. And these are just experiments to see if, if it vibes with what you're trying to do. So, you know. And then, um, let's see where the course starts here. So, so now I'm gonna do the same thing here. I'm gonna move this a little wider and then chop, move out the way please. Thank you. Nothing to see here. We're walking, we're walking. Alright, I think that's safe enough. And then here, same thing. And then what I'll do is the second verse, I'll just mute for now, maybe, right? And then maybe a different sound. So now when this pits is happening in the second verse. All right. And I might, I might mute these guys and bring them in back later. So now I have space and maybe it works. Maybe it works, maybe digest, just threw some cords down. I like to use Plugin Alliance to bring a little life to some of my sounds. They have a nice tube synth widener that I like to use. Right. So now it'll give it a little different view. Okay, let's, let's fix that cord. Those last two. They little, I don't mind the dissonance. However, I'm also thinking about the style. I'm thinking about the artist ante, so. I can change that and use the same notes, right? So, you know. All right. Now we have a whole different kind of element happening here. Right. And then transition. If I'm using a, a live drummer, then he'll do do. Yeah. So he'll give me that kind of stuff, knowing what's going on after I get a scratch vocal and say, Hey, this is, you know, and if I put markers in here, which I didn't, then the markers will say, Hey, verse, chorus, bridge, you know, that kind of thing. And that, that's also a cue to your, your drummer. The cool thing with, with one of the cool things with working with Marcus, it's just to highlight everybody would be hard. Like, you know, lately some of the things I worked on with Marcus, Marcus uses logic. So I don't have to bounce files. I just send him, I send him a logic session and he plays into it. Yeah. This is it for today. I would love a acoustic guitar here. Now here comes the verse. Right, and there's no piano on this kind of open. They don't be jazzy, that kind of stuff. Maybe not now, the new section. Without everything, I might put a string there, or maybe the desert fluid come in early. There maybe. Yeah. So, and the real thing of this that made this cook is instead of me doing this with a snaps or metronome is the actual loop, the groove that I use from stylist sets. So it kind of sets a little bit of the tone. Um, and, and then you, you go from there. This is one of a young artist that actually was in my kids' choir. I've known her since she was five, and she's working on some r and b stuff, which is actually cool. This is the actual track that I got first, which is actually crazy. I got this, and that was a YouTube track. Okay? So that was a YouTube track, and then when I started to work on it, I started using this track. So I started playing to this. So I made a, a drum track with one of my guys, and then this is the track down here. Yeah, yeah. So I have this track. So, so I didn't really like what was happening, so it didn't have any moments to it. So I had this loop, but no moments. So I went in and I cut live to it and I'm missing the. Guitar at the top of it, but I cut live on it and now it has a totally different vibe to it. It's not mixed yet, but it's still in production. So you get to kind of see, you know, what my crazy brain is thinking. Now we have an intro verse, right? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, yeah, so, but that started with. With that loop bass. Oh, I hope you guys are listening to some good bass. This is, um, from Peculiar Sounds and it's a sign bass, g sign. It's, um, the Powell Brothers just go to, is it Gospel producers and check out their, their stuff. It's, it's amazing. And we stand on their dad's shoulders. The Powells are just an amazing music family out of the northeast, um, honored to, to know them and to, to play with their sounds, chorus, more and energy now, and that that's a part of her melody. So I have a loop and I. Have a live kit happening at the same time. It should be fun for Jeff to mix, right? So as you can tell, there's more happening here. Now, second verse, just kind of moving over a little bit. Same si, same formula I used on the last song. I like this pad and these PCOS together. They just feel good. All right, so there's, there's one quick example. Not mixed as yet. One of the. Most recent is a song I did for my friend Lucrecia in Trinidad song called When It When It Rains. Totally different, , kind of song. So the approach is different, but it started off with, you know, start off with a loop. It always starts with, uh, a, a loop and a a, you know, piano arrangement and then something else happens, you know, as we, as you sit and add and work on, different things. So, play a quick synopsis of that. I think she's releasing this this month, this song talks about her mom and, um, very special and dear to her. I grew up with these folk in, in Trinidad, you know, so to work with Lucrecia, who actually sang on Lisa Henry stuff and a ton of the work that I've done, she's, she's sung on it. Um, you. Talking about my, my friends who have met opera stars and everything, she sang backgrounds on tons of stuff. And she just did the whole choir thing in Trinidad for cc. Oh wow. So the whole concert, she had 150 voice choir, something like that. Gosh. And she was conducting it and doing all the arrangements and such a beautiful person. Humble, gifted, talented, Lucretia Harrell. So this song started off here's the demo. I don't even know if her vocals on here. Silence. Yeah, it is. I can hear my he beating. Never thought that I can ever live to like you. So piano and vocal gone away. My everything else I have to imagine afterwards through the pain sting of death when it heaven. You see, know the picture of my life. Darkness feels this broken light. Okay, so this is the end of the chorus here. I try to see past me. I know I trust you, but it's hard. Alright, so simple piano, demo. And now this is, this is what, this is what I'll come up with. And this is not mixed yet. And, and guitar is gonna fill this spot here. Probably acoustic, you know. Silence feels room. I could feel my he beating. Never thought that I could ever live to. Once this is released, I'll probably be able to do the away. Yeah. My pearl of only four times. How do I make it through? I still have. Couple when it, I'm gonna use some kind of the, this frog, I try to see past where I'm, I know, trust you. But second verse, drums in the beautiful and strings dreams, eyes. Long forward, so I've left space for the highest. You see the darkness. This, I try to see, pastor, I'm, I know I trust you, but it's, I hope of knowing in your love that everything is working for me no matter what lives, journey brings me a trust in you. Break everything back down and modulate. I see. Anyway, so totally different journey to where this is. Right. So, you know, that's one of those, you know, kinds of things where, you know, you, you start with that kind of demo and then you come up with something else. So yeah, this song is a whole other. Thing, and loved, you know, what, what we came up with on this as well. I'll just go to the chorus kind of here, you know, 'cause, um. So this is the verse. Definitely different. Love gave you, gave you love. And this is before the mix. I have a mix, but just showing them, you know, I keep. There's nothing like you and her voice is so beautiful and warm and unique. Chorus is, you can see all these tracks. You know, we had so tons of comps, getting the right moment and all that. But you know, going after, you know, like a concept on it. Concept is a big part of it. Also, surrounding yourself around the person's voice. Roger Ryan on the Worship Keys podcast. Thanks so much again for taking your time, pretty much your whole half day to share with us. Share with me. My pleasure. It's an honor to be on your podcast, Carson. I mean, I don't, everybody knows I've known Carson since he was 12. Um, and, uh, he's a dear friend, his family, um, he is family and, uh, it's just an honor to be a part of your podcast. Ah, well love you man, and, um, love you too. Um, what you just did right there was awesome, super cool to just see you do it. And I know it's really just like a pre-production type thing. This is kind of where the demo starts. It's not a finished product. No. It's always a starting place and yeah, two days from now I'll probably listen to it and go, what was I thinking? It needs more cowbell. It needs more cowbell. Absolutely. But I, I hope this was inspiring to you guys, educational. If you have any questions, let us know in the comments. I'll make sure Roger can see it as well, if it's directed right to him. If I can help, we can help on the worship keys page too. Help you guys any more, any more, any further, just let us know. One other question for you, Roger, before we go, what is your main advice right now for current keys players? Be a listener, be a listener, and following is leading. I think sometimes we wanna play nine chords, 20 chords behind, uh, something that's happening. And if you are playing for someone while they're speaking and creating an atmosphere, depending on whatever it is that's happening in the service, take your time. Listen and orchestrate the words that are happening as opposed to being in your old world own world, just doing a bunch of stuff. What you do actually has an effect on the service. And then if you're listening, depending on what they're saying, you might come up with a song that that's well known that you could play softly in the background of what's being said. So now the audience is engaged in two ways. They're engaged in what was being said, and now they're humming something familiar, and you're actually helping to create the right atmosphere for whatever's happening at that point in the service. And if you're on stage, same difference. It's the same thing. It might not be a cover of something, but it needs to be something that actually motivates or changes the atmosphere in the venue, wherever that venue is. And it could be a cover because depending on who you're playing for, they might know the song and they might start humming it or using that before going to one of their songs. And I've seen that happen many times with the artists that I've been fortunate to play for. So, awesome. Roger, thanks for sharing and thank you guys for sticking around to the very end. 'cause most people don't stick around to the very end, those that start the video. So glad y'all made it to the end. Thank y'all for following subscribing. Follow Roger Ryan. Producer Roger. Producer Roger. Yeah. At producer Roger and