Worship vs. Performance: Church Production with Tyler Wester and Andrew Sharp

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Let’s sit down with Tyler Wester and Andrew Sharp from Church of the Highlands for an honest and uplifting conversation about worship, creativity, and leadership. Tyler talks about how his passion for worship production has grown over the years, while Andrew shares his musical journey, his go-to keys tips, and the mindset that keeps him grounded. They also dive into the balance between performance and true worship, share behind-the-scenes moments from Highlands’ upcoming Christmas production, and add a few laughs along the way. After watching, tell us what part stood out to you and what you’re bringing back to your worship team this week.

Tyler Wester

Andrew Sharp

Transcript

Speaker: 0:08

Welcome to the Worship Keys YouTube channel. My name is Carson Bruce, so glad you're here. We talk all things music theory, gear, industry and ministry for your worship keys playing. If this episode is beneficial for you or you have any questions as you continue to watch, feel free to comment below and I'd love to hear any feedback that you have along the way. So let's get into today's episode. Guys, welcome back to the Worship Keys podcast. Today I am at Church of the Highlands with the one and only Tyler Wester and the one and only Andrew Sharp. If you know these two guys, let us know in the comments. Um. Speaking of comments, you, you've had some interesting comments lately, Tyler. Uh, but first I gotta intro you guys. Before we get any further into this little episode here, Tyler Wester, you've been on, you've been on staff at Church Highlands now 10 years. Yes. Full decade. Yes. And some of you might remember him from episode 47 and 48. He shared his story, how he learned keys, um, some mentorship he received, how he got connected with Church of the Highlands, going T Town, and then similar. Similarly, Andrew. Now you're from Florida, right? Yes. What part of Florida are you from, or Ormond Beach, Florida. Okay. So it's like south of Jacksonville on the coast. Okay. East Coast, yeah. Awesome. And we've had some guests on around the Jackson, Florida area. Yeah. Recently with Max Whiting and J Dub, Jonathan Williston, great guys. And they're actually Jonathan's j Dubs at the church you came from. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I grew up in Ormond Beach. My parents actually planted a church when I was. Very young, like 1-year-old? I think. So right there in Ormond. So I, I grew up, uh, there going to church with my parents obviously. But, uh, when it was at some point, you know, during my schooling, I think during the sixth grade, um, I went, started going to a Christian private school called Calgary Christian Academy, which is connected to another church in the area called Calvary. So naturally I started getting involved in, in their stuff too. Um, I did. Uh, national Fine Arts, which if it's Assemblies of God denomination thing. Yeah, yeah. For, for young people, you know, trying to grow in their gifts in a lot of different areas. And then, you know, when we weren't having. Midweek services at my home church or if the days, you know, were, were different. Like we would have a youth service on Friday nights and they had theirs on Wednesdays. I would, I would be involved at Calvary as well, so, yeah, I sometimes, I wasn't there when J dub was there. Yeah. Yeah. I just missed him, but. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. And you've also been around Highlands for 10 years total. Maybe not full-time on staff, but yeah. You've been with Highlands for about 10 years from you. Were you in Highlands College? Is that how you got connected? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I, and you're multi-instrumentalist, by the way, guys. Yes, he plays, he plays it all. He the best at everything. Wow. It's annoying. I don't about the best, but No, no. He's the best at everything. I love it. I love it. It's annoying. Annoying too kind. I did. I came, I came here primarily playing guitar, having done piano lessons. Uh, I actually did also take some drum lessons growing up, but um, when I moved here to Birmingham, I was playing electric guitar. That was kind of, had been my main thing for. Many years and came, got involved in the church doing that, started a music director from the guitar, and then Awesome. You know, one thing led to another, ended up at a, at a location that was just short. A bunch of people, lots of transition. Oh, we need a keys player. And then, right. Naturally I'm, I'm thinking, okay, I took some lessons and, you know, played in church a little bit growing up. Lemme try to give it a go and that's awesome. Yeah. Here, here we are. Now it's kind of my. My main thing. Incredible keys. In fact, I'm thinking you've probably played the most things on stage out of anybody. So I'm going over the things he's played. He plays, he's played bass. Guitar acoustic, guitar, acoustic and electric. So that's three you've sang, right? Yeah. Yeah. Played drums, organ aux keys. Md. Yeah. Regular keys. That's nine positions. and run tracks. That is kind of crazy. 10. 10. One new, one New position per year. You've been here, right? Yeah. Right. No one else. That's wild. It is wild. No one else. Yeah. That's amazing. Wow. Many man, many talents. The drums, the, yeah, the drums were only emergencies and they were rough, but. Crazy count. Right, right, right, right, right. Electric kids only, it counts. Yeah. And you're up on stage, like at the motion conference and, and everything like that. And you're at different campuses here. Church of the Highlands. Yeah. By the way, for those you who do not know, church of the Highlands located, uh, based out of Alabama. There's 26 campuses, maybe 27 soon or ish. Yes. So 26 right now. 27 coming next year. Okay. 20. They said 26, there's 24 of them are in Alabama. I think 26 includes online campus. Okay. So 23 of them in Alabama, two in Georgia, and a new one coming to Prattville. Okay. North of Montgomery, I think. Coming to a city near you, right North. North of Montgomery. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's the Church of the Highlands Takeover. Ah, yeah. Crazy man. And if you wanna hear more about Church Highlands, you can also check out that episode number 47 Tyler talks more about the church and everything. Um, Chris Hodges, uh, did some transitioning to the college and yes. So that he's transitioned into the founding pastor role. Okay. Which is a, I don't even know if that's a role anywhere at, at another church, but essentially he's still involved in the church. Okay. But he let Mark Pettus and like brought Mark Petti up to be lead pastor, and now he is at the college. Mostly and also running Grow Leader, which, uh, helps empower lots of other churches and pastors. Help them with systems and other things that can help them grow their church. Awesome man. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so both of y'all have platforms as far as Instagram, a little bit of YouTube, a little, just a little bit of behind the scenes kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, and we're gonna do some content with, with these guys here. Um, my son is so country when I say content, but we're gonna do some content. Alabama. Alabama, we're gonna do some production run through, um, a little bit about. Christmas, a Christmas production that you've kind of done in, in past years and talk about that. Yeah. Um, really great arrangement. And I won't go, I won't, I won't spoil it too, too much right now. But y'all do that. And also a lot of you guys ask for a full keys rundown of what, uh, Andrew Sharp is using and he's gonna, he's gonna do that. Uh, don't worry. So stay tuned, but maybe not this episode, but. You have the OB six and you have Ableton, and you have all these wonderful sound libraries. The Corg nano controller, which I, we have not, I think I've even forgotten about the co nano controller, which is right on the other side of where you're sitting right now. Um, you had that taped up, you've got that mapped out on Ableton and, uh, you use the mid fighter, don't you, Tyler? Yes. Okay. And you like it way better? It's, well, it's what I started with. Okay. Okay. So it's like if I, if I had started with that, I might have stuck with it. Oh, that's what, that's what you started with. That's what happened with me. Yeah. I started with the cork. And then I used the mini fighter, and now I'm back. I saw, um, Ben OV from Hillsong using it, and I said, well, I want that. Okay, that makes sense. Well, which one's better between the two? What's, uh, you're the only one who's really used both. And why the best tool is, is what you have. But for me, like fades and you'll see later. Yeah, I, the mini fighters, only knobs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's hard to like. Twist multiple things, right? I can do five faders at one time. You know, if you are, you are doing that. I've got a lot of different channels. See, I, I'm, I'm, I'm not using it for ox, I'm using it for Maine, and I use the buttons though, and that's what helps me because I've got different, like you can press them and that's how I change sounds. But also I can turn on Yeah. Other plugins. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, it's way better technology, but. For me, the chord. And you can change the colors for sure. You can change colors. If it had a screen, like a OLED screen that, um, that gave, yeah, man, I words totally. Right. If it had the ol screen saying what each thing was, each parameter was, it would be goaded. Absolutely. I, I will say with any, any controller like that, that has an endless encoder that just will keep spinning. What was awesome about using that is that I could scroll through my whole Ableton session just. Oh, with one turn, you know, I could have like, you know, three or four days worth of set lists. Yeah. And then just go from top to bottom, bottom with one twist, which is awesome. You can't do that with the, my session's gotten so big now with sounds that it lags every time I scroll down, so I could imagine doing that and just waiting. Couple business days. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, totally, man. Well, with your platform online, you've been doing a lot more tutorials lately behind the scenes. Yeah. Um, a lot more. You're Ming on stage and you're talking on the talkback Mike for those unaware, you, you guys are fully, you know, got click tracks, got MD. And you've received some funny comments online. Oh, yes. And, um, feel free to share those at this time. Yeah. I'm there's some funny comments online, maybe y'all have been a part, we've all been maybe contributed at some point. Hopefully not, but maybe, um, but lots of posit positive feedback, but also some interesting others. Yeah, I'll give just a few. This one, uh, is probably the, um, favorite running favorite. Um, I don't even remember which video this was. Actually, I think I do. I think it was, uh, one of the ones from 21 Days of Prayer. Okay. And she says, don't like it. I think they could have done that. And even better without the talker. The talker. The talker. The talker. So I'm gonna adopt that, right. Uh, here. This one I liked how short and to the point it was. Algorithm lacking. Hmm. And this one, oh, we'll do two more. So this guy serves as mediator of the Holy Spirit. Right? Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that one. Uh, this one. Wow. I'm amazed at how much can be accomplished without the Holy Spirit's help. Just a schmuck barking out orders. Yikes. So, wow. Schmuck, mediator of the Holy Spirit. The talker. Wow. those are. uh Names I go by now. That's crazy. Oh, and I remember from our first time Uhhuh doing an interview last time. Mm-hmm. That someone roasted me for saying like too much. Oh yeah. So many likes. So that is something I need to remember as we talk right now. Absolutely. And you're doing a great job. I'm trying. You're like behavior modifying right now. Trying to Oh yeah, because I kept saying like this, like that and she called me out. She did. Dang. It was hilarious. She was right. That's like, that's like, fix your posture. Oh, you know? Right. I'm on this swivel chair and I'm like doing this and I'm, I can't say that though. Straight your back. Let's talk about Highland's Christmas because I absolutely love Highland's Christmas, my family. Originally from the PE city, Alabama area. If you know Alabama, um, maybe you know, PE city, maybe you don't. But anyway, here at Highlands Christmas, you guys go all out. I mean, we were called the, the infamous, uh, baby grand that tilted almost 90 degrees and it sounded incredible wild. Yeah. Um, the tracks and all the production that go in that are involved every year is amazing. So tell me what's new this year in 2025 of Highlands Christmas and what you guys got planned, which by the, by the time this comes out. Um, we're in the middle of Christmas, but, uh, what do you guys have planned and what's new? What's fun? Well, uh, as of a mixture of today and last week, everything is. Penciled in. Okay. Okay. So, uh, there's no set set in stone. It's like, it's like set in stone, but it's like, uh, it's gotta get final approval. Okay. From now, pastor Mark. Last year was almost all orchestra based. Okay. This year we're incorporating orchestra, but I, I would say more of sectional. Okay. As Andrew talks about, we here at the broadcast campus, we'll have eight string players and eight, um, brass. Um, cannot remember exactly what all they are. Pretty sure on the brass side, it's just two of each thing, including two saxophones, which I'm really excited about. Awesome. Um. But I was saying was last year was all orchestra. This year there's a lot of band and so it just took a massive swing. So it's got kind of a little bit of every style, which I'm pretty excited about. So you'll get some, uh, gospel Motown esque flair on some of the carols, and then you'll get, uh. Obviously the King of Christian Christmas, Phil Wickham. Hey. That's right. That's right, that's right. Uh, and uh, we're, we're throwing another tommee profitt one in there. Okay. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Um, y'all had Clark Beckham sing last, last year, right? Yeah. Yeah. We couldn't get Jordan Smith. Okay. But it's his song. Okay. And instead of having only a guy sing it, we have a girl singing the same thing in the same key. 'cause that's what his range is. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I mean it's really great. I think this is a very thematic Christmas. It's actually more of a, um, Easter kind of theme. Okay. So, um, it's really focusing on your sins were, uh, like scarlet, but they'll be white as snow, white as wool. Which is really cool. Yes. In terms of Christmas, so I'm pretty excited about that. And we're trying to make everything a little snow or something, right? Yeah. The white snow, uh, well, it's a white stage. Oh wow. Yeah. Okay. So I can say that since, no, it's not gonna be a surprise to anybody. Y'all rolling out a, a white grand piano. Oh my. Oh my gosh. If only. I don't think so. I don't, are you guys hidden? This, you know, I didn't like the band being hidden last year. I couldn't really see the two. I couldn't see. No, we're not. So it's, um, the stage design doesn't matter about me, but stage design, if you, uh, if you were able to go down there right now, the stage design is staying the same. It's a massive LED wall. So instead sometimes we go with different designs. This time it's just more of just. Full wall. Okay. And then risers and all the band is across in, just in just a row. And then there's a lot of room for the vocalists. But the cool thing is, in the middle of the stage, there's a way to lower and spin. Um, last year it was blow through LED, which means that you can see through it. It's the same thing this year, but it's in the middle and it will move. Okay. So that's one of the cool things On the production side, there's the design side, and then there's the practicality side of does this actually work? Right? Yeah. But it's possible that someone's. Going inside like drums that are almost like 3D. Andrew's one of them. I'm just, I'm learning more and more about this as the day goes. Yeah, Andrew? Well, Andrew's gonna be what I said earlier. He is playing every instrument. Come on now. Whatever we need. He's, he's not like including a, he's not the ox keys player. Okay. He's the ox. Player. Okay. Which means he'll probably end up playing guitar. Right, right, right. All the things, man. Yeah, it's the whole workstation over there. We'll see how much I can work in to it. Yeah. It'll be fun just to see, especially as like as the music keeps panning out stylistically, like what we will need per song and absolutely what can be. It's always fun, you know, to play as much live as you possibly can. Totally. Without. Only filling in with tracks, so 100%. Yeah. You guys do things with such excellence, which I applaud. And one comment that you got on one of your videos was, um, and I, I think it was more of a negative comment and sarcastic comment that, uh, supposed to be like a convicting comment, um, was. When they quoted the blood lyrics by Bethel. Oh yeah. Right. It's like its Andrew. Got it. It's never been about, oh, was it your comment? No. Yeah, it was on your video. I wasn't really sure. I wasn't really sure about it because, and the comment was, it's, it's never been about performance. It's never been about performance, dot, dot, dot. And it could it's dot, dot dot. It's a.dot. It's the ellipsis. Yep. Genuinely. Could have been either way. Okay. It could have been like, it could been like, y'all should have done this song. Like you should have like run into the blood. Or it could have been like. Performance. It's never been about performance. Performance, my guy. How do y'all, how do you, I just wanna ask, you know, 'cause a lot of people do have that perspective of megachurches, especially mega church to the size of Highlands, and we talked a little bit about this last time. Mm-hmm. But when there's such a huge level of production and money spent into it invested, how do you balance that? Like theologically, um, internally, and obviously it's not about sounding correct or like the PR of it, but the heart of the matter. I want people to hear your hearts, um, as they see you guys, uh, talk about production and talk about the Christmas coming on the white stage and all this stuff. Talk about the heart of production, why you do what you do. Um, and yeah, like does that, is that a little convicting when you're like, it's never been about performance, like do you ever feel like. Well, maybe it is a little bit about like Christian Tam right here. Like, how do y'all grapple with that? Grapple with that, grapple with that? Is it apple? Apple with that? Grapple, grapple, grapple, grapple. Yeah. I think, you know, if, if you're, if you're doing what you're doing unto the Lord, um, and a lot of it is about, uh, heart posture and like it's, it's impossible to judge. Really, you know, it's impossible to judge someone who is up there playing or singing a song and say they're just performing or they're not performing it. truly, it truly is. And um, as far as the production and, and the lights and the white stage and all that, you know, you could see all throughout the Bible that God is, um, concerned with beauty, you know. Um, even in the design of, of the temple and, you know, there was roses on the wall and obviously creation, we can see beauty, uh, wherever we go. So I, I personally don't have any problem with creating things that are excellent and beautiful. I think, um, there's a very clear shift, you know, from doing, doing these things unto the Lord and doing them to be. For people to see, you know, what you're doing or, or to, to, to view you a certain way. Right. You know? Right. Like it for me, if this production that we're putting on that is gonna be put in front of a lot of people, you know that a lot of people are gonna come to across many locations, um, and see if it is pointing them towards Jesus, which that is our ultimate hope and goal, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, then. I see zero problem with that. If it is pointing people towards, um, a church brand or a pastor personalities brand, or a worship leader's brand or, or you know, I say brand 'cause that's just, that's the word you say these days. But, you know, essentially if we're drawing the attention to like what we're doing for the sake of building ourselves up instead of pointing to people towards Jesus. That's where things, you know, turn and, and get dicey. But for me, um, I'm all about, you know, redemptive art that points to Jesus, whether it's a Christmas service, whether it is, um, a short film or a novel or a, a, a painting or a, or a music, you know, uh, art that is glorifying to the Lord. And, and you know what we're doing. At Highlands Christmas is, or Christmas at Highlands. Which one is it? I know one of them's the official one. Christmas at Highlands, Christmas at Highlands. I had to think about it. We was, it was flip flopped. Yeah. For a long time. Yeah. The whole purpose and the goal is to draw people to Jesus, you know, and, and to be putting on this, um, really excellent production unto the Lord. So. Yeah, that's, that's kind of my personal views on it. Love it, man. Tyler? No. Um, going on that, uh, so going back to the performance side, I think there's two sides of that. 'cause I think when it says it was never about performance, I don't think that means you performing in front of people. I feel like that's more of a, uh, if you look inward and you look at. Are you striving for people? Are you striving for God or are you not leaning into the grace that has been given to you? Um, so there's kind of this idea of humanity as like depraved as depravity. Um, actually did a devotional on this just the other day. And, um, this idea that essentially at my best, I'm a sinner. And like that's. That's what I am because of the fall, but because of God's grace, he has set me up and views me as perfected because when he sees me, he sees the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. So I don't have to worry about how I'm performing in like a way of almost think of it as in school. Like it's not for a grade, it's not for whatever. It's just I am. What he made me. And I'm going to be sanctified every day and grow closer one step at a time. So it's not about how I'm performing, it's not about how I'm doing in that moment. Now, on the other side of that coin, the performing as in a performance at a church, I actually kind of disagree with what a lot of people say. I, I think if you even go back to when all of us took piano lessons. When you got done, you did a piano recital, which is a performance you played in front of people. So no matter what we're doing, we are performing. I don't care what you say, you can put a different label on it, but it is. A performance and it's showing stuff. I think it goes into what Andrew said, it's the heart posture behind the motivation for that. And let's be honest, none of us are gonna have pure motives 100% of the time because going back to it, we are fallen humanity. That is impossible. That is perfection, and that is the performance that we should not be striving for. We should be striving for being pure. So all that to say. Yes, we are performing, but we need to make sure the motivation is pointing people to Jesus. And the motivation is not just being perfect so that we can get the pat on the back from the pastor or the pat on the back from the worship leader, the pat on the back from the sound guy. It's so that we can bring an excellent product,\ an excellent sacrifice not only to the people 'cause. That's part of it. You're bringing a sacrifice for them. But ultimately the worship is not for the congregation. It's not, it's for God and God alone. So it, I mean, it's literally like the whole point is to show people how to worship so that hopefully they will also engage. Now when it comes to Christmas, I think the beautiful thing is we're allowed to make art for art's sake. And you know what that is? All throughout Christian history, if you look at cathedrals, they were beautiful. That was art. If you look at, um, Bach, he was writing church music, but it's the stuff we study and it was beautiful. So if you just go through all of that, it's like it is. Christianity is based on this all throughout, like throughout our history. So I think people take it too far and they see production and they get scared of production. But what's the difference in us using an LED wall and someone using a bow on a violin? They're all manmade and they're all different tools. There's nothing sanctified or sacred about an instrument. What's the difference between that and an LED wall, which if, as long as it's being used as a purpose to bring people closer to God, I think it's fine. Podcast over, we're done. I mean, I understand why it's called The Talker. Thoughts. Any thoughts on that? Man? Uh, no, I love that. I don't have anything to add of that. I, yeah. Yeah. I love that. Like you said, like technology's gonna change. Um, you know, I think we're supposed to use it. I think we're supposed to engage in it. And what we have started saying this thing, I don't remember the exact verbiage, um, but Pastor Mark actually has just been talking about, um. How the church used to be, the ones pushing the boundaries of technology and advancement, you know, throughout history. And in this next season at our church specifically, um, we wanna step back into that space, you know, and not, not become archaic, you know, and old and irrelevant, obviously, like. Handling technology. I honestly, I think we were talking about AI when we had this conversation. Right, right, right, right. Um, but, but stewarding the technology and using it for redemptive purposes and using it to lead people to Christ. Not being scared of it or demonizing it. Yeah. But, but using, you know, we use tools all the time in our everyday life that, that are also used for evil, you know. Everything. Our computers, our phones, yeah. All technology can be used redemptively or used, um, for the wrong reasons. So, but I think that's the same thing of humanity. Yeah. We, we can either allow ourselves to be used the way that. God has intended for us to be used, or we can step into the way that our carnal nature naturally tends towards. I mean, you look at children, you don't have to teach them to lie. You don't have to teach them to do bad things. They just naturally do it. So naturally, we're always gonna have motives that are self all about me, about glorifying me. I mean, that's the whole reason why the fall happened. It was a glorification and a exaltation of self. Yeah. No, that's, that's good thoughts, man. I think it's interesting. With the, this past year, the Dove Awards and Frank Forest, uh, video of like, you know, I'm not attending the Dove Awards. And, uh, and then Jeremy Riddle made Avid. Did y'all see Jeremy Riddle's response? I saw the first 15 seconds and then I, I, I had to do something I haven't got, yeah. I was gonna watch it. Much love and respect to Jeremy Riddle, you know, and he, he wrote the book some years back, um, called The Reset, which was a great worship Yeah. Book. I dunno if y'all read it, but, uh, yeah. So he's kind of spoke up about it, but he's kind of been outta the industry a little bit. And, but he's been in the industry also in, in years and decades past. Um, and there's that tension and war between. Like Christian industry and mm-hmm. Church world and versus what we should do and what we should accept and what, you know, all these things. And, um, what's the, the hardest part about it is what y'all are saying, like with the heart motive is yes, you have fruit check, like by, by the way that you live and your fruit will show for itself. Um, but it is hard because there's just no way to judge the motive. The heart. And that is the absolute hardest part that it comes down to is like, I don't think the dove Awards are evil. And I think, um, that, you know, it can glorify God in, in what it does, but obviously there can be people that are there with the wrong intentions and the wrong motive. It's just like. We can all do. Yeah. Which one of you mentioned that, so one of y'all mentioned that, that we, we all kind of have, can have the wrong motive sometimes even in the midst of something that started out P as Pure think it was Tyler. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so good. I mean, I love Abby Gamboa song Pure. Mm-hmm. It's such a great song. Abby Gamboa, she's so great, so powerful. She's really good. Shout out, um, upper Room and all them just such great worship. And it's like just a constant heart check. But yeah, it's so hard because there are literally, literally the reasons why we have such. Hardcore denominational lines is because of those outward, uh, stances we take, you know? And, um, it's like, what should we do? And a lot of the Old Testament is very outward. And about our, uh, actual, like you talk about sacrifice, like it was literally about, you know, yeah. Our actual, literal sacrifice and literally, you know, our life is supposed to be lived, surrendered to Christ, who already made the ultimate sacrifice. And we're also. Let our, uh, you know, to obey is better than sacrifice and our obedience to living. Yeah. For Christ. Right? Um, so it's an interesting topic. I mean, I don't, I don't know, you know, I kind of wrestle with that sometimes with like commerciality and, and marketing and um, you know, but anyway, it's just a, just an interesting, interesting topic. Uh, no, I, it's a, it's a tough topic because like, I don't, I don't know which way it should really go and. I mean, it's hard 'cause Yeah. Um, I mean, we work for a church. That's how I, my, I pay for, provide for my family. Absolutely. That's how I'm insured. I mean, it's all the things and I'm blessed to have that job, but it's, um, I mean, in some ways that's very similar to a Christian artist. They're just making money. Off the music they've made, and they just may not be attached to a church body. Mm-hmm. So there's a, there's a fine line on the business side of it and. I don't wanna pretend that I know where that line exists. Right, right. Absolutely. But I think, you know, like, like you said, there's, there's art that glorifies the Lord and music is a big part of that, and production is a big part of that. Yeah. And that's awesome. Um, quick thing about, for Tyler, you were gifted a piano, a whole piano. Yes. Tell us about the a Steinway piano. About it. So 1918 Steinway model OI think it's five foot. 10 and like three quarters inch. I mean, if we're getting exact. So, um, I had another guy, my actual youth, my youth pastor growing up and he offered me a piano. And there's a guy at the church, his name is Terry. He tunes all our pianos. He is a piano tech. He can rebuild a piano, he does everything. Um. But he also is a volunteer on our dream team who runs cameras on Sundays. And we have five minutes before the service and we have a pre-roll. It's a video that leads us into the worship set. And I saw him during pre-roll, so obviously I don't have much time until I need to get up on the platform. And um, I saw him and I said, Hey, somebody offered me this piano, let me show it to you. And I showed it to him and he's like, ah, I don't get that. I said, oh, okay. He's like, are you just looking for a, uh, a grand piano? I said, yeah. He said, I'll find you one. So no lie, less than a month later, he sends me pictures. No context, right. Just pictures of the Steinway. And I'm like, what? And he said, can get you for the price of moving. It's like, so a Steinway, so a Steinway 1918 grand. And he said he can get it to me for the price of me paying for him and another guy to move it into my house. That's crazy. So, and he even gave me a discount on that and then he gave me a discount on the tuning of it. Funny story. Crazy. Yeah. Tuning. Tuning it. Uh, shout out to my son Aiden. He's six. And, um, Terry came by and tuned it up after it settled in the house for a minute. And, uh, I go to play it and I hear Ying. I'm like, well, what is that? I hit another note and it's, it's like two notes are getting hit at the same time, and I, I go try to find a flashlight. I'm getting a little frantic and Christine's like, what happened? I'm like, well, I'm wondering if one of the kids maybe like. Drop something in there. Maybe, maybe they put a car or a toy or something. And, uh, Terry left his tuning. Tuning, uh, like mute? No, the tool. Yeah. Well, not the fork. The hammer. The hammer. The hammer. So, and um, Aiden comes by and he's like, oh yeah, I just, I just moved some of 'em around. So, what, what are you, no, he twisted it. Whatcha talking about? No, he didn't. No, he said. Yeah, I, I just, I, I just twisted 'em a few times. No way. No. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. So how many did you do? He said, I don't know, six, seven. I'm just kidding. He didn't actually make that, but no, he probably did say like six, seven, and say eight of 'em. I don't know. I'm like, well, which way did you turn 'em? Both ways. Both ways. Did you only do the front row? I don't know. And then eventually I came to it. Nobody's ever taught him how to do that or where that tool even went. So said he just figured it out, bro. How did you even know that? He said, well, it was on top of the piano and there was only one place it could have gone. Oh my gosh. Wow. So he just started retuning the piano and like, you know, normally when a tune. Piano's outta tune. You get Coing or something like that. Yeah, it was like a fifth. My God. Like you're hitting it. And it's like, it's literally two notes. I was so confused. Yikes, man. And then I tried to go back through and eventually I've texted Terry and I've asked him to come back out, shout out to Terry. Wow. That's an incredible story. That's funny, man. And to get to get that deal. Oh, it's beautiful. It has ruined me on pianos though, because nothing else sounds as good now. That's insane. Wow. That's insane. Insane. Well, uh, we're, we are gonna wrap this episode up. Hope you guys have enjoyed just a little bit of convos. Um, I do wanna ask you, Andrew, yeah. When it comes to production and keys, sound design, um, what's your greatest tip? And we, we are gonna get a full keys rundown in production. There's gonna be tips within that as well, those segments. But, um, what's the biggest thing that, uh, biggest piece of advice that you would give to the worship keys player, like right now, currently? Yeah. With the technology, with what we have, with the videos, with the YouTube, with the culture, what's, what's the big, big picture thing that you can say? Yeah. Um, coming from a multi-instrumentalist, by the way, everything, 10, 10 different things on stage. I, I would say from, so from, from the experience of, of having learned the basics of a lot of stuff. I would say number one, just become an expert in, in what you have access to. So, um, when we dive into some of the production part of this, I'm going to jump into some features that are just built in inside of Ableton, which is the, the doll that I use, um, that were not, you know, additional purchases to what I have just making the most, uh, with the resources, um, that. You have access to. And then number two, before, um, before you can really be creative, um, at what I would say a professional level as a musician or a producer or a songwriter or, or whatever. I think the quickest way to, to kind of level up. Is to imitate things as exactly as you possibly can. This is just my personal take on it. So playing keys, I would listen to the key stem of a song, or if you dunno what a stem is, just like the soloed out track of the keys. I remember listening to, oh, come to the Altar by Elevation. Worship the Keys Track and learning it note for note exactly, and trying to match the tone with the keyboard I had. Um. You know, it's not gonna be the same keyboard, but, but learning how to get as close as you can with the resources you have. And what you may not realize is you're not just copying, uh, you're not just replicating, but each thing that you learn to replicate becomes a tool that you can pull back out. It's like getting stored, you know, in your memory for your creative use. That's good. So a mistake that I made a lot, uh, as a, uh, an early keys player and producer was just trying to get in my session. And open up the initial preset and, and of whatever software I had and just scroll through presets and scroll through sounds and try to find the right thing. But then if, even if it was 80% there of what I wanted to sound like, I didn't know how to get the final 20% even because I had no experience. Trying to copy a target. So when the target wasn't in front of me and the target is just what I'm imagining, it's even harder to recreate it. So I would say that use the tools you have to recreate your favorite things exactly. Whether that's a production, whether that's a guitar part, a piano part, whatever you do. And then utilize those, draw on those for your cre creativity, uh, I think that'll get you a lot further faster than just trying to. Make up all your own stuff from, from the jump. That's great, man. Love that. Take that tip. What do you, what do you have to say with that man? Second that you said it all. What was the que like? Remind me just what the, exactly the question was. The best, the best tip for worship keys players right now. Your one to last. I love that. Um, I would even further that and expand your bag to go to different genres. That. Uh, so I mean, in inside of worship you can go, I mean, you can go anywhere from house fires, which is more, uh, sing song like, you know what I'm saying? Like it's a group of people living room. Right, right. Right. Feel it's got the Will Reagan kind of feel to it. Um, you can do that and then you could go to Elevation, which is a little bit of CCM and gospel infused all the way to Marvin sap. Right, right. To um, and all these different things. They're. They're really great, and if you can pull from like the Marvin sap, then it helps you have that trick so that whenever you're going into an elevation song, which is pulling from that style, you're able to do it better. And so you're not just like, if elevation is as gospel as you've gone, then you really, it's not that deep. But the same thing. I'm not only talking about gospel. You could do country, you can hit EDM, you can hit old Stevie Wonder and all these different things. And if you know a little bit about everything and the, it's just gonna help you be, uh, more rounded so that whenever you do need to pull from that bag, it'll help you. That's, and so that you. You're not sounding like a hack, right? Totally, totally. You're not sounding like AI over there, you know. Crazy. Woo. Well, thank you to Andrew Sharp and Tyler Wester. AKA, the talker. Yeah. Golly muck. Thanks guys. Muck. Extraordinary. Thank y'all for hanging around on this episode. If you made it to the end, let us know. Um, also, we'd love to do some in-person stuff. Um, I know I've been talking with Tyler a lot recently about doing an in-person workshop. In Nashville, and we'd love to do that. I don't know when it's gonna be, but in 2026 sometime we'd love to do an in-person workshop so everyone else can kind of circle around like we are right here. And just, uh, yeah, uh, get, get some keyboards there, get some Ableton stuff, get some track stuff, get some sound design, whatever you guys wanna talk about with some other keys players. And we just talk about what we can, how we can use technology to glorify the Lord. And get better outta craft. So I'm thinking like a one or two day event. Yeah. With you, man. Um, and, and you too, brother. Come on, come on up as well. Wait, wait. You know, before you, before you finish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make sure you hit the subscribe button and the bell icon so that you can get notifications. Man. Thank you, Tyler. Yes. You're studying. Studying, man. No, that is very true. Please subscribe. And also, I mean, for the next two weeks, the bell icon. The bell icon right now also, just again, thank, thank you guys. Um. For being on because y'all have full-time