Mastering Worship Production with Jonathan "J Dubb" Wolliston

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We sit down with Jonathan “J Dubb” Wolliston for a practical, behind-the-scenes conversation on worship production. From his Full Sail background to years of experience in church and live broadcast, J Dubb shares real-world insights on sound design, multitracks, keys rigs, MIDI workflows, and creating worship environments that serve both the room and the livestream. This episode encourages worship leaders, producers, and musicians to pursue excellence while staying rooted in purpose, community, and a kingdom mindset.

Jonathan Wolliston

Legacy United Music

The Worship Keys Website

Transcript

Speaker: 0:08

Guys, welcome back to the Worship Keys podcast. Today I'm with J Dubb. J Dubb just felt, feels cool. I feel like I'm like, um, some kind of MC rapper somewhere, like introducing you. That's funny. J Dubb in the house. Okay. We gotta like put that in post. Yeah. Yeah. But guys, I'm with J Dubb Today. His real name is Jonathan. Woolton and we're film, we're filming here in the Church of 1122, and we had Max on recently. My brother and I know you love Max. Yep. Whiting. This episode, we're, it's gonna be a two-part episode. Um, this first episode is all about production. Sweet. Which you have. I heard not only the expertise and the experience, but you have the accolades, and you've been to Full Sail University. Yeah. You've done other things. Let's see, what is Full Sail and then what, what's the other school you went to? So I, I went to Full Sail for recording Arts back in, uh, 2006. Okay. Okay. And then, um, recently, a couple of years ago I went back for music business at Full Sail. Okay. Okay. So two, two degrees From full self. From full cell. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Um, another guest with Meta AI glasses. I love it. Shout out to Metas. Yeah. So cool. And you said they, they came out with a, a recent update? Yeah. New glasses. Um, I felt like I should have waited. Uh, recently they came out with, uh, another, um. Another version called meta display. Okay. So I'm gonna be possibly in the near future. Okay. Upgrading to those. Oh, that's that thing where you control it from your wrist and you look at the screen. Yeah. With gestures. What you're, yeah. That's crazy, man. Same. This plug meta. It's getting better and better. Yeah. Or scarier. And scarier. Yeah. But I, I, I see a lot of ways where I can implement that into what I do. You know, even with, it's funny 'cause my, um, our executive pastor text me as soon as they cut out. He was like, bro, this will be cool for pastor. And we just kept thinking about different ways he can use it for like, you know, sermon notes and all that kind of stuff. So. Absolutely. Yeah. That is super cool. And for, for music cues, I don't know if you can use it within Ableton or, yeah, I'm sure there's a way if they open it up to like developers, I think there's a way for like the music community and church community to really take advantage of that with lyrics and court charts, all the, all the things that you could think of. It's gonna be huge, man. Yeah, man, I love technology. I'm a, I'm a tech kid. I'm a nerd. I, I love tech stuff. Um, but I always, I like functional stuff too, so just being able to use things that's gonna help en enhance or. Whatever I'm doing, whatever, um, whether it be production or music and songwriting, whatever. So anyway, I can use technology to help enhance that, you know, I'm all for it. That's awesome, man. Mm-hmm. So we're filming right here in Jacksonville, Florida today, but tell us, uh, where do you live? What, um. What's your street address? What's your, no, I'm just kidding. Got it. Now, where do you live and what church are you with? And, uh, tell us all about you, man. I know you've been, you said you've been married four or five years now. Yeah. Wife coming up in January is gonna be, um, five years married. Congratulations, man. Married to my beautiful wife, Feletia. Shout out babe. Um, but yeah, so, um, I've been at Calvary Christian Center in Orman Beach, Florida for seven years now. Um, our pastors, our, uh, pastor Don Rayley, and, uh, our apostle our, our lead pastor is Apostle Jim Rayley, and they are family to me. I love them so much. They're my spiritual parents. Um, but I've been there for five years now. Um, I serve as the music director. Okay. And also, um, I do a lot of music production, all of our original music and mixing a lot of the stuff that I, you know. I've went to school for, I'm able to do that. And that's what I love about Calvary so much is like they see the potential in you and they really want you to use everything that the Lord has given you, uh, for the kingdom. So I have the amazing opportunity to produce and release music and write with our incredible team. Um, so pastors, uh, daughters, um, they also lead worship. So our, my, uh, worship director, my worship. Pastor is Courtney Rayley, which is pastor's oldest daughter. Awesome. And she's an incredible writer. You guys gotta check out her music. Um, she has, um, singles out already, but, um, she's also, um, an incredible writer for Calvary and we're releasing a lot of new music. Um, we have some new music coming out next month, so, um, Seamus Plug Sing Praise, uh, we're dropping that in November. Um, but. It's just a, it's a great, um, expression of just joy and what we're experiencing in our church right now in this revival season. And, um, we love worship music. We love worship ballots, but we just feel commissioned in this season to release music of joy and praise. And, um, it's, it's important because that, um. That can really shake off depression, shake off what a lot of people are even dealing with right now. In society. So being able to exchange, you know, that, you know that that spirit of like depression or you know, spirit of heaviness with the Bible calls the spirit of heaviness. And exchange that for the garment of praise. Come on. Yes, sir. And it, it just, it does something to you, man. And so, um, we've just been in that wave, in that, in, in that season, that river at church and at Calvary. So I love my church, I love my family. Um, but Calvary is just a great place, you know, a great place to worship, great place to grow, and I felt like I've grown so much being involved there and working there. And, um. It just doesn't feel like work. Yeah. To be honest with you. That's good. It doesn't feel like work. Um, it feels like community and family, even though it's a large church, we have multiple campuses. Right. But, um, it's definitely a family church. I love that. It's definitely a family church. So I would encourage all musicians. I know there's a lot of musicians that play at different churches, which is great, but it's important to get plugged into like the right church, a church that you can see yourself growing and, and you're not just there to, you know. You know, serve and like, it's great that you're, you have an opportunity to serve there at the church, but, um, it's great to get plugged into the church and, and serve in an area where you're not behind your instrument. Right? Right. You're actually, you know, you're giving back, you're doing outreach, you're doing other things in ministry. Um. So, yeah, that's, I love that. That's kind of my story. Like I've been at Calgary for seven years, as I said, but um, you know, prior to that I was working for TBN. Okay. TBN. Tell us about that. Tbn, it's fun fact. Uh, right out of, uh, right out of Full Sail. Um, I got the job at TBN, um, back in 2007. Okay. You know, they hired me on as an audio engineer, so that's my background with recorded arts and doing live audio. So. Nice. I was there for 11 years and, um, the first nine years was mainly focused on front of house mixing, mixing for their theatrical shows. So I got my, you know, hands wet in theater. Okay. You know, kind of learning about like live musical theater and um, you know, the three years after. Um, not three years, sorry. After my first nine year, nine years there, uh, the, my last three years there before I left, um, they found out I do music. You know, I produced music. So it took some, it took that long for them to know that. Well, it, it is funny because we would have concerts there, and then I would help set up as the tech, I would help set up the keyboard. So I'll be checking the keys. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the managers, they're like, you play. So, you know, that just opened up a huge opportunity for me to play on, um, some of the Praise the Lord broadcast taping. So I was involved, I was the guy playing background music. Oh, fun man. With some of the pastors and, you know, that opened up the door for me to, um, produce music for the theatrical shows. So, very cool. Um, God's just been really faithful to me. You know, I, I am even going. Into full sail. You know, my, my desire has always been to like, you know, learn about like, behind the scenes of, um, production and music production and live, uh, live music. Um, but I've always wanted to do things for the kingdom. Mm-hmm. You know, nothing against people who do stuff for mainstream. That's, you know, that's, that's awesome. That's great that you have those opportunities, but I've always wanted to be attached to something that has eternal value. Yes. So being able to just use my gifts and my talents, you know, for the kingdom of God. It's just. Been my heart's desire for a long time. So the fact that I'm able to do this, you know, like do this full time has just been a blessing. Totally. And, um, and it's been, I know it's been encouraging to a lot of pe, a lot of the younger musicians coming up that look up to me, so that's awesome. Um, being able to share that has just been a blessing, man. Come on man. I do want to know the story of how you got named J Dubb J Dub, because you're Jonathan Williston. But Jonathan, yeah. J Dub is not my, my legal birth name. Where did you get this nickname? 'cause it's so cool, man. Um, so it start, it's funny 'cause it started off as J Dubb Jonathan Williston. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, when I started at Holy Land, we had a bunch of Jonathans working there. Okay. My manager was actually Jonathan as well, so, um, they're like. You, do you have a nickname? I was like, let's do J Dubb. J Dubb, yeah. So it just stuck with it. It was cool. You know, and I, I, I always, you know, enjoy when I hear people saying J Dubb because it's, you know, it keeps it pretty casual. I'm not like a. I'm not a stuffy person, I don't think. I feel like, you know, I always try to lead with a smile, and so the whole J Dubb thing just makes it really casual and just makes it kind of inviting for people. I love that man. Yeah, love it so much. Okay, so you obviously know a lot about production world. You didn't just jump into church world right after everything. You took time to learn it in the classroom, academically studied, and then also you went to work for TBN, and then now you're working at church. Been working at church for a long time. Serving the Lord. Loving the Lord, I'm sure for a long time. Uh, but tell us for those listening and want to get into production for their church. Mm-hmm. What's your best advice for someone before we, we are gonna see some of your work and hear you play today, which is gonna be fun. Um, I'm excited about. But before we even jump into that, how do, how do some churches approach production if they've never done it before? Like what, what things do they need to consider? What, what advice do you think they should do? Should they all, should they all go to full cell or should they, what? What should they do, man? Yeah, what's the steps there? So there's, I don't think there's one, uh. One specific way, or there's only one way. Right. Right, right. Well, my path was going to school, but um, you know, I think the way technology is now, like a lot of churches have access to like some really great gear, right? And there's a lot of, um, industry professionals working for churches. So I think that's a huge plus. You know, compared to when I was coming up, there wasn't that many churches. It would kind of be only like mega churches, large churches that would have, you know, the capacity to have like. To, uh, top of the line equipment that I would see like coming outta school. But a lot of churches now have like, it's like the standard, having like really great online presence, right? Online broadcasting, um, mix in front of house, mixing, digital consoles, all the, all the things. So, um, my first step to or of advice to give to young, um, musicians and those who want to get into production for church is just ask questions. Like, um, if you're noticing like. The, the church that you're attending, you know, has a really good online presence, you know, the way they, um, present the gospel, um, through media if you, if that stands out to you, you know, don't be afraid to ask questions like at the end of service or see if you can show up to like a, a rehearsal. Um, get in touch with like the technical director and just ask questions and, um. I think it's a safe pace, a safe place to ask questions too. 'cause they're not gonna shut you down to church, right? Right. So they're gonna be, they're gonna lead with kindness. Like a good church is gonna lead with kindness. So they're gonna answer your questions. So I would start there, ask questions and um, whatever interest to you, and just say like, do you guys have an internship program or do you have any way we can volunteer? I can volunteer. And I would start off that way, just volunteering in at your local church and, and, um, learn. Just be a sponge. I'm, I'm, I always say this to a lot of my friends too, um, that I'm a, um, I'm a lifelong student, so even though I went to school for like technology and tech and audio and all that, like, I still love learning new things. So, and you're asking of questions to like the tech directors at your, at the churches, you know, be open to just learning new things and don't just be like. I just wanna learn just one specific thing and, and, and stay there, right? Like be open. Once you've learned that, be open to learning other things. Love it man. Love it. Okay. I wanna know, what is your typical keys rig at your church right now? Okay, so I just got, a Nord stage four. Come on. I'm loving it. I love it. I've, I had a, prior to that, I had a stage two. Okay. Which was great. Um, but I wanted to upgrade and we were due for an upgrade. So we finally got, uh, stage four. That's good. And, um, I'm using it as my main board. So my main, all my main. Piano, uh, sounds and my felt piano sounds. So that's just my go-to main piano sound. Awesome. I have a built-in, um, pad, like a backup pad. Um, but outside of that I have, um, I'm running Ableton and, uh, a buddy of mine, Warren. Shout out to Warren. Yes. Uh, he put me onto his template, which is incredible. Um, you guys definitely check it out. But that template has everything from like synth pads, um, brassy, synths strings, like all the things you can think of. Even has like a ox key section like for your bells and your lead syns and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm using that. I'm triggering that. Um. Through Ableton and through TouchOSC with my iPad. So that's my main setup. I have a top board. Um, it's an Arturia 49 key. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm using that just to run all my, like my sweet sounds and like the, the bells and the whistles and You know, transitional sounds. You know, some stabs and pulses and all that kinda stuff. And then I keep my main board strictly just for piano and um, and then for, um, I'm pretty sure like audio engineers will really love this and appreciate this, but I do my best to like separate all my sounds and not just give them a two track, a stereo track of like, um, like all my sounds. Right, right. So, um, we have a, an audio interface where we're sending out literally four. Four sets of stereo, um, stereo sounds for like my main keys, my strings, my pads, and then all my like synth brads, uh, brass sounds like everything else. So, um. So comes time for stereo. Just for keys. Just for keys. I love that. Yeah. I, I'm sending that out. But it's really helpful for like, even in post-production. 'cause we technically, our services is, it's a live recording every service. 'cause we, we multitrack every service. Okay. So when it comes time to go on back and post mixing, which I also do for the, for the ministry, I go back and mix. I have the ability to. Blend those sounds better or just take out certain sounds I don't want and replace them and in front of house appreciates that too. 'cause they have, you know, the capability of mixing that better. You know, for the room. So. That's my key setup. And then right next to my keyboard setup, I have a Hammond B three. Um, let's go man. I love playing it. Um, our church is, it's funny 'cause it's like a, it's like a hybrid of like, as far as music styles, it's like Yeah, yeah. CCM and gospel all just like jumbled together. It's so, it's like a. Pot of, of soup. I love it. Jumbo. Yeah. I'd say jumbo gumbo soup. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the jumbo gumbo. Jumbo gumbo soup. There you go. Yeah. But it's, it's such a great, it's a really diverse church and a lot of diverse and multicultural church, and that displays not just in the crowd, in the audience. Um, but also within our music, we're very diverse. So, you know, our first song could be like a uptempo Caribbean Calypso song, and we'll go into like a CM Bethel song and yes, just don't miss a beat. And it's, and it's still effective. And, um, it just ministers to everyone in the room and most importantly. It ministers to the Lord. Yes. And it's a, it's a, our true form of worship. Wow. Um, and we're not, we're not, um, stuck on like a particular sound or genre. And that's what one thing I love about what I get to do at, at Calvary, you know, all expressions of, of our worship is, you know, all our expressions are, are, um, what's the word I'm looking for? It's honored. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's accepted. Yes. And, um. You know, I just love that we're able to do that. Totally, man. Love that. And you only have two hands, 10 fingers. Yeah. Which you have three or four different key beds that you can reach. Yeah. How do you, how do you manage all that? Yeah, it's, it's a lot. There's a lot going on. Um, I also use my feet. There you go. So I have, um, true organ as far as like, yeah, so for Oregon I use the, you know, the pedals, the base pedals, but also for like, my key setup. Oh, I have um, I have a volume expression pedal. Oh, I love that. Okay. So my buddy, um, David, David Parks, yeah. Shout out to David. We grew up together, but he is just a beast. Like. He's taught me so much, but even when it comes to sound design, he, his mind is just, it's wild. Oh, so that's someone you definitely gotta talk to too. For sure. Dave is incredible, incredible musician, great heart. But when it comes to creativity and sound design, he's the one who put me on to use an expression pedal. Okay. So I use that for like my strings, anytime I want swell in strings for certain moments, especially some down moments. Yeah. Where I don't wanna necessarily just. Have the piano. Um, really carrying the moment I can bring in strings to swell it, it really enhances. Love that that particular moment. Um. And we both, we really love like, um, movie scores. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Han Zimmer and all, all the guys, you know, John Williams. Yes. So we really love that, all of that. And we try to incorporate some of that even in like a worship moment or into like, just atmosphere music for church. Totally. And it really enhances the, you know, the experience. So, um, love that man. Yeah, when you, when you mentioned about just 10 fingers, I'm like, well, I do use my feet too, so. Oh, there you go. That's not just 10 fingers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I use everything crazy, dude. Crazy. Well, let's see some of, uh, what you're doing for production, man. Yeah, let's open. Awesome. Let's start, uh, I guess you got pro Tools open over here. Yeah. Yeah. So let me, let me jump into this real quick. So I'm, I'm, and we gotta hear you play something too. Yeah, yeah. I'll jump into your sound design, play some keys. I grew up on, um, my family's from the islands, so my, my parents Okay. Are from Jamaica. Okay, awesome. Um, so they were born in Jamaica, raised in England, and then they moved over to the States. Wow. Um, but. With that background, a lot of Caribbean people, um, we, we love, uh, southern gospel music, believe it or not really. Okay. So I grew up on southern gospel music, but the harmonies locked in too, right? Yeah. So like all those hymns and traditional songs. Yes. Like I know that stuff like the back of my hand because I grew up on that and a lot of Caribbean people love. Like Southern gospel and hymns. Awesome man. So yeah, whatever I'll play today, it'll, and it'll most likely be like a hymn, something that very, oh, I love it, man. I'm, I'm all for it. Yeah. So let me, um, and we had, uh, uh, Christian Diaz talk about Latin multi-tracks. Okay. Not too long ago. And Nice. He did a Latin remix of what a beautiful name, but. He also did a, a full Latin remix of praise and, you know, the drum parts opens up with boom. Mm-hmm. It kind of, and it kind of sounds like a Yeah, like the clips will be. Mm-hmm. Yep. So he just made a full Latin remix of praise where he just went absolutely wild. I gotta show you the arrangement later. Oh yeah. I gotta check that out. It's absolutely fire. It's so good. Ooh. Good. You ready? Get up. Get up. Yeah. Right. Probably literally you can layer anything with this song. Yes. Yes. Create like a little medley this together so you hear the simplicity, but we're really pulling onto like Caribbean vibes. Absolutely. It hits. So, yeah, I could just. Yeah, man. So that's sing praise. I can talk through some of like our, or my approach to like, producing and like what I was hearing. Absolutely. Tell us, man. So the, the cool thing with this song is that, um, our team, our, our, our worship pastor, pastor Courtney and, and, uh, her sister Channing, we were in, we went to our chapel and wrote the song within, I would say within three hours. Wow. So quick, quick. It was really quick that just the ideas just came so fast. And, um, the cool thing is that we, we sang it that Sunday for the first time. So we wrote the song that, that week, early in that week. And, um, we were able to, uh, put together some quick stems and just have like a basic idea that we're able to, um, I won't say workshop, where we're able to just like, show our church, you know, um, the bare bones of a brand new song and our church just. Loved it. The church just loved its, and, um, so my approach to producing is I, I, I like to be, I like to approach it in a simple way where, um, the champion of the song Is always gonna be the lyrics, lyrical content. Mm-hmm. So I always use that approach. So I don't like to cloud up what I'm doing with a bunch of like, you know, a bunch of like synths or, you know, sound design and all that stuff is great and it's necessary, but I think it's more important, the placement of it and just kind of choosing your spots and choosing your areas where you want to put those, you know, ear candy. Right, right. You know, so, but always, you know, when it comes to. Any style of music is specifically music that has, you know, singing and lyrical content. And in our context, worship music, the lyrics are the champions. Absolutely. So you don't wanna cloud that up. So my approach to that is, you know, um, what's the rhythm? Like what, what type of, um, drum pattern or beat we're gonna go with? And I usually just take, um. Yeah. I also play drums. That's my first instrument. Love it. So I'll just do like sumit drums on, on my, on my keyboard. Um, and just kind of map out a, a basic idea. Um, layer it with some type of a percussive loop. Yeah. Yeah. Um, just to keep that pulse going. Right. So for this song, um. It's definitely given like a Caribbean vibes and like ASO vibe, so I wanted to free up our drummer to kind of play around that too. So I made sure, like the loop, lemme pull up a loop real quick. I make sure like our percussive loop is prominent and it, it, it frees up our drummer to kind of like add more kind of nuance and other patterns on top of that while still staying true to that like calypso feel. So lemme jump over here to our perk over here. Let me sold the perk. Okay, let's open that up. I don't have too much going on here, but I'll show you from here. Yeah, I'm just keeping that loop going. And that doesn't have to, it doesn't necessarily have to be that same type of loop throughout the entire song. So that's the other thing is just being intentional with, um, my different sections of the song. Right. So I break up. Every, every section of the song should have something that either lifts the song or breaks it down. So as you just heard, that loop. You know, we heard more like, um, shakers and like an actual drum, like a kick drum, like a pattern going there. When it came down to like a softer section in the song, I brought a lot of that out and it was just shakers. So even though that's kind of like minimal things, you know, it's still matters like on the overall scheme of the mix when it comes down to mixing and bringing everything in. Yes. You know, so I've learned that throughout the years. You know, before when I used to produce, I would just. Throw a ton of stuff in. I'm like, oh, that sounds cool. And just keep layering things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At that point you can't, it's like, and I'm, and I'm, I don't claim to be like a chef or anything, but like, when it comes to like cooking or bacon, you're throwing all these ingredients in and if it's too much, you're taking the whole, you can't even taste like the, you can't really enjoy the cake or the, the final Absolutely. Product. So, yes, you know, a little bit matters and a little, you know, I call it ingredients is here too. So like we're adding a little bit of like these different, um. Like elements of the song, like your shakers and just being mindful of your placements of, of every single track. Totally. Um, and also what's helped me with this kind of a cheat code, but, you know, um, with multi-tracks, you know, I study that and I just, I think like the producers 'cause you kind of, if you, you're getting multi-tracks you can download and you see all the stems. So as a producer coming up, you can just study that and just look at how are these producers building tracks? 'cause it's totally, that's the cheat code. It's right in front of you. Absolutely. So you're seeing gang vocals, you're seeing bgvs You'll see some individual stem vocals. You'll see how the keys are separated. They'll be like sometimes in multi tracks. They're like multiple keys. They're like one piano and then the second piano and there's different pianos. Squash, piano. Piano squash, piano. Yeah. Piano bells. Yeah. So that's. That's kind of been my cheat code too, um, you know, into like producing, being really intentional how I'm, how I'm approaching every song and, um, separating the guitars out and having different, um. Not having the guitar play like throughout the entire song, but he can just play for this one section. And that's it for guitar one. Guitar two is handling something else. Absolutely. Handling strumming. So, uh, guitar three is just giving some colors and just giving some ambient sounds. Right. You know, so, and I learned all that through just like. Literally just looking at multi-tracks. Mm-hmm. 'cause I'm having to set it up every week, you know? Sure, sure. So I'm like, Hey, let me just approach this and just look at it a little, little differently and just see what I can learn from this. So, you know, that's something that, um, musicians and, you know, producers, future producers can take away from that. Just kind of study stems and just look at it and see like. Kind of di uh, deconstructed and kind of dissect it and say, Hey, how are these guys actually building these songs that we love and that we play every week? A hundred percent. You know? So that's kind of my approach now is just looking at it and just seeing what's necessary. Um, how many keys tracks do you have? Keys? Oh my goodness. I have a ton of key stuff in here. Let's see, let's go to Keys. I have, um, my main piano. I have an organ on here. And, um. Is it, I had, is it the, did you mic up the real B three on the stage? Yeah. Or so I, I did it in post though. So, um, for that particular recording, it was just me on keys, on main keys and um, and I had some stems that like, that we built before we released the song. So, um, but the stems were mainly just like, um. Like synth brass and just other colors and stuff and ox stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as like my main keys that's live, um, I have that piano, I have, I post recorded the, the Hammond B three. Um, and that's micd up. So we have three mics on that. So kinda like a stereo image and then like a bottom mic for the base. The base, yeah. Yeah. So, um, what other key sounds I have, I have some bells on here. Like some, a lot of the sounds I'm using are from Omnisphere. Like some of my bells and see that OMS three, Omnisphere three, I saw threes coming. I'm so interested in that. Yeah. So yeah, I saw threes coming, so I, I most likely will get that pretty soon. But, um, um, I use Omnisphere for pretty much everything I do. Absolutely. So Omnisphere And then also I use keys scape, um, for my pianos. And another thing that, um. It's a good healthy practice for, especially if you record music at your church, um, make it a practice or a habit to midi record your your keys. Your main keys. Totally, totally. So I've been, I've been doing that and it's been really helpful, um, especially when it comes to like post-production work, when I want to go back in and just fix certain things. 'cause. Right. No one's perfect. I'm gonna miss notes. Yeah, totally. You know, I'm not gonna be like super quantized and it's not gonna, my time is not gonna be perfect all the time. Totally. So if you're just having like whether it's logic or whatever daw you have in running in the background for your recordings there, and even for Sunday mornings, just in the background, you have your laptop opened up. Right? Open up Logic, just. Start recording your midi. Totally, totally. You know, you can always go back to it, change up your sounds, run it back through the nord or whatever keyboard you're using, and then you got, you know, you got some Exactly. You got something to work with, you know. Exactly. So I'm, I'm, I'm doing that. That's like a new practice that I'm doing is just, you know, recording my midi. Um, now, you know, Ableton. Ableton allows you to send an actual audio file and convert that to midi. I didn't know that. That's sick. Have you done that? No. That's sick. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? That's really cool. Now, uh, it does. It's not as good if you have a bunch of layers and patches. It's not as good. It's, it's, it's better when it's like a true piano and when it's slower and it's not as crazy or busy, obviously it's not, it's not perfect, but it has a functionality. If any of you guys use it, let us know in the comments. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's definitely functionality. There was a. Bad recording on YouTube of something I had to play at a wedding. Mm-hmm. Uh, before the ceremony started. And it was this awful recording and the bride really wanted this particular, um, thing. I probably could have just like replayed it, but the effort of just, uh, downloading it. But you go to Ableton. Drag that file in, make it midi, then just choose a different, like the, the performance was not bad. It was the sound, the way that it sounded. It sounded yeah. Bad. It was like ding, ding, ding sounding. And we needed it to sound like an actual good piano, you know, you could just take that file and That's so cool. Create it to, uh, anyway, just in case you didn't happen to record, uh, MIDI, you could do that work around on Ableton, but not guaranteed to get everything, all the notes in. Right. Right. Anyway, keep it going, man. No, that's so cool. Yeah. Isn't that neat? Really cool. I love the guitars, man. Yeah, we have some incredible guitar players. Shout out to Austin and Brennan. Um, those are guitar players at Calvary. Might as well shout out my whole team. Yeah, shout out guys. Steve's our drummer. Uh, Ricardo's, our bass player, Tom plays acoustic. Um, Jonathan on this record, uh, Jonathan played acoustic, and then me, of course on Keys. Um, but we have an incredible team, you know? Mm-hmm. Guys, they, they can play literally anything, so good man. So, um, we're always on our toes at Calvary 'cause our pastor also sings, our apostles sings Love it. So he can go into any song. We just have to, it's gonna be ready, we gotta be ready, you know? So our guitars, were they stereo in or were they mono in? They're stereo in. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Although they're kind of hard, hard panned left. So I do that in post like I'll hard pan 'em just to like, you know, just Yeah, separate to separate them. That sounded so good. Yeah, it sounded so good that way. So it really helps, you know, with the stereo image too, not to get too technical, but like you only have take a there man, take a, you only have two ears. So when you, that's right. When you're mixing stereos, so everyone is fighting for that. You know that real estate in your ears. So, you know, being able to not, um. Not clog up the center. And like I said earlier, like the most important thing, um, in my opinion with, with songs especially that has like lyrical content is the vocal. Yeah, yeah. So the center who, who owns the center is the vocalist. Absolutely. So you don't want to cloud up the center. So with, um, with guitars and with everything else, uh, I try to like. You know, give them some separation guitars. Absolutely. Um, even with my drums, I'll pan the drums and especially 'cause we're releasing music videos as well. So I'll pan the drum. Toms like in the, the, the view of the audience. The audience. Okay. So you'll see that it's just the little, little things that you'll notice. But yeah, you'll hear it being represented as, as if you're like looking at the drummer from the audience perspective. Yeah, I got you. So, um, but yeah, and, and keys the same way too. Like if I'm, if there's a particular synth sound or a synth lead, or bells, you know, typically. I would just keep it stereo. Yeah. Like left and right, but if you want to just take advantage of the whole stereo spectrum and leave space and just like approach it where everyone needs their own little space. Um. Pan that bell to the left a little bit or to the right, you know? Right, right. Pan that synth lead that, that, that lead that you want to stick out that's being featured in, in the interlude. Totally. Pan it a little bit, you know, and just sim simple things. Simple like little audio tips would really help clean up a mix. Absolutely. Like that. So, um, I've, I've learned that throughout the years and just those things are huge. Yeah. It, it makes a difference. It definitely makes a difference. Just being able to, um, you know. Be intentional with your pan and be intentional with, you know, your automation and volume. And I, I do a lot of subtractive EQing. There you go. Um, so that's kind of been my approach even when it comes to mixing to, like, my first thing I'll do when I, when I mix a record, um, one would just listen to it, just listen to the raw audio, listen to how it sounds. Yeah. And don't just dive in and start, you know, going to my favorite plugins. Right, right. You know, just, you know, um. Take, take some time just to listen to it twice. Listen to it loud, and listen to it soft. Yeah. And then start to kind of listen for like some of those areas where like, oh, okay, that wasn't tracked too well. How can I fix that? Yes, yes. Uh, rather than just going to like whatever the latest, hottest plugin is, let me throw it on there. Right. You know, and all those things. They have their plays, but, um. The most important thing when it comes to, for me, when it comes to, um, production and like post mixing is making sure the source was great. So we always start at the source. Um, and so, and that goes back into like you. When I, when I talked earlier about, um, giving our front of house and our broadcast like separate audio, um, tracks for like all my sounds I'm, I'm putting out there. Yeah. Um, it may seem like there's a lot, man, like six four audio tracks for, for keys, but it makes sense in the long run because it gives them the flexibility to mix things Totally. You know, to their liking and for the house. 'cause you're gonna mix differently for a house that you would mix. You know, for someone who's watching online. Absolutely. You know, we may not want my, my strings to be that loud online, but in the house it feels good 'cause it fills up the room. Right. So if I had all that together and it's just a two track, you know, that'd be challenging. 'cause I have my piano and my strings. But the fact that we're able to separate everything out, I, I know they really appreciate that and they're able to boost, you know, some of my strings on the low end in the house a little bit more. Yes, yes, yes. So all that stuff plays into it, man. So, um, are you guys stereo. In the actual live room or you guys Mono Yeah. Yeah, we're stereo, stereo in our house. It's, it's true stereo. And then, um, you know, online has been great. Like we have, um, we do remote mixing. Okay. So we have a company, um, I'm doing all these shoutouts. Oh wow. Wow. My family, um, at, uh, audio Link. Those are my guys. Okay. So we, we've been using Audio Link for about two years now, and these guys. Crazy game are incredible. Are, are they mixing in pro tools? Y'all just put, y'all just send it remotely? They're, they're mixing in pro tools. Okay. And they're like, kind of what I'm doing now, remoting into my, um, my, my office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they remote in every service, they remote into our computer and they mix live. Wow. So they mix our, our online broadcast and they've been killing it, man. Okay. I did not know this was a thing. It's a thing. Okay. I mean, obviously I knew about remotely controlling a computer, but there's a company that remotely mixes your live stream. It's, it's, it's pretty crazy. And then what, so they do tell us more. They do our live stream, but they also do front of house. Okay. Boy, they can mix, they can mix your front of house remotely. Yeah. They, there's plenty of churches that they mix, um, front of house we may be running into. That's, it's pretty wild. It's, I, I don't even know how to describe like, all the ins and out of it. I understand it, but it's, it's pretty wild. I do. What if I told you that they actually are not humans and it's AI on the other side? The whole thing. They, they are humans and they're, it's actually being mixed from your glasses. Right, right now, literally. What, yeah, 10 years from now, that's gonna be the thing. But yeah, these guys, they're incredible. You know? Um, wait, are they're, they're based out of Texas. Um, okay. They hire other people just wherever they have other, you can just mix wherever. They have other sound engineers, you know, part of their staff. They have sound engineers that will mix. So we have a specific engineer for our church. Okay. Okay. That makes this, um, for us and. Consistently. Every week we have someone that mixes our, our online broadcast, and we're able to communicate with them through Slack. That's our way of communicating with the app Slack. And we, we just, you know, right now it's dialed in, but like, um, when we first started, we able to, you know, we were able to like communicate like some of the things that we want to hear more of and just kind of critiquing, give them notes on what we want. Yeah. Bro, for the most part, it's been an incredible experience and it still is. We use them for everything. Wow. All our, all of our services, all of our conferences. Do you, have you guys ever had any issues with the networking or connection or? No. And that's a funny thing that gets brought up because Yeah. You know, like, well, it's remote, so what if the internet goes down? Well, if the internet goes down. YouTube goes down the live stream, everything goes down. Everything goes down. So, and it hasn't gone down. We've been, we've been live streaming. Wow. You know, ever since I've been at Calvary. So that's kind of like the least of our worries. But in the, the event that there was something that, to go, that was to go down either on our end in the studio or even on their end, they have some fail safes. They have, they have all these processes where they even have someone that monitors, you know, like a particular church broadcast if something was to happen. So they've, they have it doubted and they have it. It's pretty crazy. That's amazing. I love it, man. And I, I get geeked out about it because, you know I have audio background. Yes, yes, yes. When, uh, when we brought 'em on, uh, to mix for our church, I was just like, man, this is incredible. That is amazing. It's amazing. Is it a monthly subscription or yearly thing? It's subscription. Okay. It's a monthly subscription. We have, um, it's a subscription. How much, like what's the range? What's the range for people, if you don't mind sharing. Do you know? I, it's, I don't know off the top of my head, but Okay. I'll, I'll put it like this. It's affordable. Okay. It's definitely affordable and you're getting. You know the saying, you get what you pay for. Right, right. In a good way, you're getting what you paid for. You're paying for quality. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're getting, you're getting stability. You're getting, um, you're getting good quality, so, and you're getting consistency. That's good. That's good. So, and that's what every church needs, you know? Right, right. And you're getting that at a high level, and you're getting it from an industry professional, so, wow. Uh, it's definitely worth it. I highly, highly recommend it. I, I've, what's the name again? Audio link. Audio link. Audio link. Okay. Check 'em out. Audio link name, audio movers, and then audio link. Mm-hmm. Okay. Shout out Tom and Brandon. That'd be guys. Man, that's so cool. I've never heard of what the, but obviously they're probably doing really well and helping churches. Yes. Nationally and probably internationally too, right? Yes. Yeah, they're, they're killing it. Definitely looking 'em up. They're out of, they're out of Texas. They're from actually upper room, so they, they're Okay. Love it. Yeah. Amazing. Great guys though. But yeah, so, um, cool. So that's, that's literally like how we've been running things, like I said earlier, like. Every Sunday is literally a live recording. So the fact that, are you guys audio over ip? There? Are you guys Dante? We're doing Dante. Yep. Okay. Mm-hmm. Love it, man. Dante like everywhere. Dante, front of house, monitor world, and then in the studio. Amazing. Are you still, are you like hardware out of your. Interfaces for MIDI stuff. Are you, are you still Dante? Are you doing Dante? I'm actually Dante for, even for my stems. Really? So we, come on man. We, we switched to, yeah, we're, man, we switched to Dante at a north stage four. My goodness. We switched to Dante, y'all. Yeah, man, God's been good. But, uh, we switched to Dante. I would say probably like. Maybe two or three years ago running stems through Dante. Okay. Um, prior to that I had like a scarlet, a focus strike it, got the job done, but I was still limited with my outputs, as you know. Yeah. With some of these, with these, some of these, uh, interfaces, the outputs, you know. You can be limited to like eight or 10 or whatever, right? Um, with this, I'm sending these guys like 20 tracks of systems, right? I'm sending them everything, which is incredible, amazing for us. Like, so for post, we have all that flexibility, but even in the room, you know, front of house has that flexibility, just like how I gave them flexibility with and options with. Um. Multiple keys channels. Yeah. We're doing the same thing with stems. Incredible. So, and the good thing is, uh, even for rehearsal purposes, it helps me and my team out. Like, say if I didn't have a base player for a rehearsal or, you know, I can literally put that base stem through the base channel, you know, instead of like the stems channel, I can just, we can have them routed through the base channel Absolutely. As its own thing. And it sound, it feels, feels live, feels like real base, incredible. We do that with everything, everything that we're sending out through, um, our stems, we can send them back in on those, um, on those channels for, uh, our live channel, our live instrument channels. Love it, man. Yeah, man. So it's great, man. Like, we obviously, like every church, you know, you talk to any musician, any, you know, tech director, everyone's looking for the next big thing, but like mm-hmm. We're just so grateful for what we have and, you know, we're, we're doing our best to like steward what we have. Love that man. Um, so. That's incredible. Very high tech and very good. Very smooth. I love it. Sounding really good. Yeah, man. Let's talk about the chord progressions for a minute, because, uh, I'll see if my ear is correct, but you know, a lot of it, it was, uh, uh, praise was like one. Mm-hmm. Four. Mm-hmm. I'll play real quick, quick. We have keys going, so on the one we're in the Q Cs in praise, I'll call it numbers two six in. Four. He is for worthy some hitting five base over the the sea. Instead of going back to the one we just wanted to do something different. Like sometimes you would hear like, I love that type of regression. I love that. I love that progression. You'll just start overing praise and praise ing praise to the Lord. Four. He is worthy praise. Instead of starting back at that one, go that five that lifted. Man, it it right like, woo. Fixing praise the. Everybody likes a fun line. Yes. What about going like that? That one over five. Mm-hmm. Down to the two, right? Mm-hmm. It could also lift it, um, but that's what you were doing anyway, but five, four. Oh man. I love when, when he goes to the one over five or just hangs on that four. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, and when we break down the song, like I'll play it by myself if we're gonna transition to worship moments, play, play for us, man. Come on. Yes. Let's get that minor in there. Yes, bro. Come on now. No, I love that. That song is super fun. When is, when does it release? So we're releasing it, um, November 14th. Amazing. So right before Thanksgiving. And it's intentional. 'cause like I said, we want to, we feel like we've been commissioned to release songs of joy and freedom, so right into the, the holiday season, it can get dark for a lot of people during the holidays. Absolutely. Um. But we feel like in this season that we're, God has commissioned us to release high praise. So good. You know, the joy of the Lord is our strength. So we're not like leaning on our own strength. So we're leaning on the strength of the Lord and he's gonna give us that joy. So, come on, man. That's what this song is, man. I love that so much. Okay. So moving into more production stuff. Yeah. Let's talk about sound design for a little bit. Sure. And we are running outta time on this first series, this first episode with you J Dub. Mm-hmm. Um, but we are gonna have another episode next week all about mentorship and, and developing musicians discipleship within the worship team. Yeah. Um, just getting your thoughts on that. We gotta know what sounds, are you using, what is inspiring to you now? What are you using, man? Well, I love omnisphere. I'm using that. That's right, that's right. Um, so doing a lot of omnisphere, doing a lot of keys scape. Um, I'll use some of the, some of the stalk sounds from, from logic, believe it or not really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Don't sleep just like the Yamaha or the Steinway or the, not, not just for piano, but just some. Their sense stuff and like sound design stuff. They do have good stuff, man. Yeah, there's some, there's some stuff in there. Yeah. Yeah, they do. So yeah, don't, don't forget about logic and their, those, those pre stock sounds. Yes. Um, I, I use sounds from, uh, gospel producers. Yeah, man. Um, a buddy of mine, um, David Owden um, he has a plugin. It's called, I believe it's called Juice. Okay. I think it's called juice, but it is in incred. It's like my, you wanna show us? Yeah, let's, let's pull up juice really quick. Let's do it, man. But it is, I call it, is it, it is a synth or? It's a synth. Okay. But I call it my, sounds like it would be synth. It's like my, uh, my, uh, Swiss Army knife. Okay. Okay. It has everything you need, all built into one plug. So, um, what up? He partnered with, uh. With gospel producers, and they released this a couple years ago, but I literally use this on everything, man. Gospel producers juice. Yep. Nice. There it is called Juice. So has looks red, so it's gotta be good. Yeah. Red. Like the Nord, we pull it up. Let's see. Let's pull some sounds. Brown. Brown. J do, right? It's funny, somebody pull up some like even like drums and bass. Oh, sweet. So if you do any type of like drum programming, like hip hop stuff, like there's drums in here, drum kits. Way down. They hit hard, you know? Yeah, yeah. They sound great. Um, epic piano sound good? Yeah. You know, some pianos in here, so Yeah. So I use juice literally for everything. It's like my go-to for. Like synth sounds. I have some really great sounds on here. A lot of the sounds that you'll hear on Sing Praise, my transitional sounds like my little synth sound, my lead synth. It's a nice little, Ooh, all those kind of those stab sounds. Sometimes it's hard to find these sounds on like some of the keyboards that are out now, but having a plugin that just has right there in front of you, it's totally, totally. It's great. So I love that. Do you have that within Ableton, I guess too as well when you're live? Yeah, so when I'm live I'll throw it into Ableton. Um, and like I said, I'm using Warren's templates, so Yeah. Yes, I can just replace some of those, some of those sounds with with Juice. Such a cool name actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally man. Yeah. But yeah, that's, that's, those are my go-tos right now, man. Um. Just using, I just got the Nord stage four, so I'm trying to lean into that a little bit more. Just using that as my main piano sounds and kind whatcha are you using for pads? As far as pads I'm using, um, or do you use pads? You don't have to use pads. I do use pads. I use, I have like a built-in pad that I, that I, I wish I had the board on me right now. Yeah, yeah. But I have a pad that I have on, um. On my stage four. But also as far as drones, I'm using drones from, uh, playback, believe it or not, not play that. Okay. Okay. I just bought a ton of drones from playback and I just use that. I have like a little mid sweet, um, keyboard. It's like a little 25 key keyboard, and I, I trigger like all my drone keys. It's specifically just from that. It's from that. Oh, okay. So I just hit it whenever I'm going to and it helps me. Transit. Transit. You've got about 30, 30 keyword. I have a lot going on, man. I have a lot going on. It's all intentional though. So like I told you earlier, like um, you get one keyboard for every patch or something. Right, right, right. Everything for me, even though I love tech stuff, like it has to have a server purpose so it's not just to have a bunch of stuff. A hundred percent. So even though I have that little keyboard, like it's sole purpose, it's to run all my drone sounds. Yeah. Yeah. So I love that. I think it, I think it's important for people to hear that because everything we do must be purposeful. Any last words to producers out there especi, specifically in churches that want to get started or, yeah. Uh, I wanna, any red flags? Any mistakes, any things that you've learned along the way that you'd get to save some time for? Yeah, I would, I would. Um, and I kind of piggyback on what you said about getting into rud of like, comparison and, and that even applies to like, producers and, you know, growing up a lot of guys would, um. I would hear a lot of guys and I would even talk about, oh, what's the best daw You know, what's the be, is it protools versus logic versus nuendo versus, and, um, I heard, um. You know, a well-respected producer and composer. He said, you know, the best DAW is the one that you're the best at. Yeah, yeah. You know, so, and that just, that encouraged me not to get so caught up on like what I'm using or what's the latest tech there is like. You know, am I putting the work into learning this, this, this gear? Totally, totally. And am I just diving into it and, and learning, you know, and does it work for me? You know? Absolutely. And if it's, if it's good, if it works for me, then, you know, rock with it, you know, be great at it. Totally. But don't go into that, uh, that mode of just comparison and, you know, just trying to see like, what's the hottest thing, you know, what's the next best thing? Totally. It's good to be, you know, be current and stay on top of like, what's. What's good out there. Right. Um, but not getting into the rut of that comparison or just saying like, what's better than this? Or who's better than that? Like, you know, it's, it's time consuming and it's not productive. Absolutely. So I would encourage like producers to just keep that in the forefront of their mind. Well, if somebody, I know that out of Nashville's an incredible producer and my friend still, I'm gonna say still, he works in, um, nendo Cubase. That's his gem. And he's like, bro, I will take session. He's a well-known producer. If I say his name, you guys would know him. Um, he's well known in Nashville and he, he uses that. He was like, bro, I will get a session in Pro Tools, dump everything out and put it into a new window because he's like, I'm comfortable. Like I get right. I move quick, I know what I'm doing. And I was like, bro, if it works for you, like the client doesn't care. Absolutely. They just wanna make sure like their stuff sounds good man. So. Right. Don't get caught up into that, you know? I love it. So that's good. It's kinda like, um. When you're talking about Bible translations, like what Bible translations should I read now? And there's so many. It's so funny. Yeah, and they're, they're, they are all pretty much good. Maybe there are a few that people will swear by that you should never read or something. Mm-hmm. You know, there's some, there's some translations maybe that people should steer away from, but for the most part, um, it's like, what translation should I read? Well, it should be the, the Bible translation that you can actually, you want to read? Come on. Yeah. Like that you can, that you can really. Connect with an an understood. It's like who care? You know, N-I-V-E-S-V, passion, whatever, like whatever kind of connects with what's your. Wanting to read and whatever you have access to, like, that's probably what you should read. That's such a good point, man. 'cause I, I was literally thinking about that the other day. 'cause I, I kind of got caught up into that. I'm like, man, which, which version should I be reading? You know? Oh, okay. Like, you know, sometimes you feel a little bit more spiritual because you read NIV or King James or New King James or the Amplified. Right, right, right. And, but I'm like, and I believe it was the Holy Spirit that spoke to me. He was like. This wasn't even written in your original, the, the original language. It wasn't even in English. Totally. So why are you getting caught up on this? Like, do you understand what you're reading? Right, right. That's what matters is, are you, is this process saying like, yes, find that version. This is moving your heart and your heart. Yes. Yeah. So that, find that, because at the end of the day, this wasn't even written in English, the Bible in English. So let's not get caught up on like different versions. So a hundred percent. Yeah. I love that. It was cool that you brought that up. That's so funny. I was literally just thinking about that. What, what, which version did you, so I am, I'm. I'm like in between three. Like if I'm doing study and Okay. Uh, I'll do amplified. Okay. If I'm just casually reading, I'll do contemporary. I'll do the, um, contemporary version. Um, and I would just go back and forth and just reference them. Okay. 'cause, uh, I'll just go to on my smartphone or my iPad. But my bible at home, I study Bible is ESV. Dude, I love ESV. It's great stuff. Yeah. But, um, it's great, man. Like, I, I really felt that that was the largest, you know. Encouraging me and telling me like, Hey, don't get caught up on the make sure you're reading. That's the whole yes point. Yes. Read. Yeah. Just read my word word. Make sure read, read the word. Make sure you're doing that. That is more important. So you kind of treat your, your bibles like you treat your keyboards. Right. Just different, different times. Different functions. Yeah. Different functions. Yeah, man. Yeah. They're everywhere. Yeah, I love it. I got a Bible everywhere, all my devices, and then my study bible at home, but you know Exactly. It's important that you're actually reading. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Yeah. Applying the word. Mm-hmm. Well, if you're watching on YouTube and you made it to this far into the episode, yeah. And maybe you didn't, but if you did, let us know. What Bible translation you are reading right now. Um, maybe you're reading multiple for different purposes. Uh, ESV at home amplified for this, the message for this whatever, whatever, whatever. And if you have any strong opinions, let us know as well. Um, but also if you have any questions on production in general, uh, Daws, how to get started. Um. Let us know in the comments too. We're happy to help you if we can. Um, we'd love to see them. Also, you can email meCarson@theworshipkeys.com. Um, I'm definitely gonna link the audio link. Please do because that is cool audio link. I want people to be able to, uh, utilize that if they, if they need to. 'cause so many churches like, I need help. I need help mixing. And it's like some of them, even they do have a budget, but they don't have that person who can do it. Yes. Uh, and this is a great solution for that. They are incredible. Please take it from me. We use them every week. You can go on online. You can go online and watch any of our services. 'cause we keep our worship up as well. Um, so you just Calvary fl on YouTube, go to live. You'll, you'll check, you'll see it. But um, they're great. Well guys, Jonathan Willison on the Worship Keys Podcast J Dub as he's known for. Um, thank you for being on the Worship Keys. Thank you for having me, man. Thank you for sharing some production tips, playing a little bit for us. Excited for this new, uh, ep, the new single, the new music coming out. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. Incredible. Well, next week we're gonna be talking more about, uh, mentorship within your music ministry. You are working on a book Yes. About, um, kingdom minded musicians. Yeah. And your, your title's gonna be something along those lines, I hear. Yeah. Yeah. So what does it mean to be a Kingdom, kingdom-minded musician? What does it mean to be. Um, a disciple maker, a disciple of Jesus, a follower of Jesus. Even within our music ministry, we get, we get so tied up in what we're doing. Yeah. You, you hit on something earlier in the podcast too, and we are wrapping up. It's got I felt like a preacher. We, we are concluding. We're gonna get outta here. This is my third closing. Yeah. Um, but. You mentioned how a lot of times as musicians, it's hard to get connected and plugged in Yeah, yeah. To the church. And when I was eating, uh, with Max, earlier, max Whiting mm-hmm. Uh, we filmed an episode and he was talking about how so many times, uh, not so many times, but one time he did see a keys player literally at the end of the worship set on at church, like unplug. At the, at the, it wasn't even muted yet. From the, from the console unplugged and just took the whole keyboard and stand and walked off the stage. Loaded up in his car and headed to the next church. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. I've never witnessed that. But I know people obviously can, you can do multiple gigs in one day. Mm-hmm. But if you have to take your whole keyboard off the stage in order, get, get to the next service, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, that's pretty intense. Yeah. But, uh, gotta do what you gotta do, I guess, as a, as a gigging musician, but for you, for the health of who you are as a person and holistically, you gotta be plugged into a church. Absolutely. You need that. You definitely need that. So, we'll, we'll talk more about that. Next week, but thanks again for sticking around and we'll see you next week. All righty. ​