What Divorced Dads Need to Hear About Raising Daughters w/ Rory Paquette

What does it look like to fight for your daughter without letting ego destroy the relationship?

In this episode of The DAUGHTERED Podcast, Oscar sits down with Rory Paquette for a real, honest conversation about fatherhood, divorce, masculinity, and the weight dads carry when raising daughters. Rory is a father, podcast host, podcast coach, public speaking coach, and mentor who helps men grow in leadership, marriage, and fatherhood.

Together, Oscar and Rory unpack the fear many men feel when becoming fathers, especially to daughters, and how unresolved wounds, pressure, and pride can shape the way we show up. Rory shares his deeply personal story of becoming a dad young, navigating divorce when his daughter was still an infant, and learning how to lead with peace, ownership, and consistency even when the system felt stacked against him.

This is a powerful conversation about what daughters pull out of us as men, what it takes to stay present through pain, and how to build a lasting relationship with your child even in incredibly difficult circumstances.

If you’re a father trying to show up better, especially in hard seasons, this episode will stay with you.

Rory Paquette

Power of Man Podcast

00:00 Fear Behind Fatherhood

00:36 Clueless to Purposeful

01:32 Podcast Welcome and Guest Intro

04:07 Why Daughters Change You

06:46 Meet Rory Paquette

09:07 Before Becoming a Dad

11:27 Birth Night Turning Point

13:33 No Playbook and Isolation

15:22 Fear of Failing Your Kids

19:55 Divorce and Co Parenting Ego

25:57 Grounded by His New Wife

30:49 When the Fighting Stopped

32:31 Custody Reality for Dads

34:48 Custody Reality Check

36:21 Child Support Incentives

38:23 Surviving the System

43:17 Owning Your Side

53:38 Blended Family Dynamics

58:00 Teen Years Guidance

01:03:47 Wrap Up and Resources

Guest Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the guests. They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the host, any organizations, companies, or institutions mentioned, or corporate entities represented by the host.

Our aim is to provide a platform for diverse perspectives and open dialogue. While we strive for accuracy and balance, it's important to recognize that opinions may vary. We encourage critical thinking and further exploration of the topics discussed.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Fear. Absolute fear. Fear of looking like we don't know what we're doing. Fear of being embarrassed. Fear of having to ask for help. Uh fear of failure. As men, we are expected to simply do. We're expected to simply know. We are expected to successfully work and provide. We're expected to successfully parent, even though we have no idea how. And we're also expected to lead, even though we may have never done that before in our lives, uh, before that moment when you have a family. And uh I think that's that's what holds us back. In a nutshell, uh clueless, um, too uh purposeful, I think are the two ways I would describe those two people. And that that journey was uh was painful. That journey was um man. Uh I learned a lot in that journey. I really did. I learned about me, I learned about being a dad, I learned about trying to be a husband in the middle of all of it. I learned what it actually took to um be there for your child. You know, it was one of those stories. I'm old-fashioned. I was like, hey, you know, we need to get married. I want this little lady to have my name. Um, it's a really good thing I did because in the fight that ensued after that, it's been playing a long game, which I had to decide a long time ago. So, you know, just to categorize that, it's been uh um educational.

SPEAKER_06 2:19

Welcome to the Daughter Podcast, where fathers become everyday heroes in their daughters' lives. Grow, evolve, and lead with love. Here's your host, Oscar Pinya.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Daughter Podcast. Oscar here, your fellow growing girl dad. Today with a friend of mine who has uh already been a mentor in the podcasting world as well as the being a dad world, um, to talk about being a dad and the experience that he's had. Rory Paquette is here with us today, and uh he's going to impart us with some of that wisdom that I know I know we're all looking for. Rory, man, how are you today?

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Brother, I'm I'm uh better than I deserve. I appreciate you having me on. It's it's an honor to be on this podcast, man.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

And it's uh it's the I'll say the least I can do if if you guys uh get the chance um to um and have the mental fortitude to hear me pontificate. Uh Rory has given me the opportunity to be on the Power Man podcast that he hosts, as well as the Podcast Nation podcast, which that one, and and you probably hear it when you listen to it. I was uh out of my uh out of my realm because as much as I've been doing podcasting, I don't think I'm still a podcaster, but we're gonna just leave it there. But Roy Man, it is a pleasure to have you on. I've been looking forward to this uh to flip the table on you and give you the stage to just to talk being a dad and and you know kind of rifting on some of these things that we a little bit that we talked about in your shows, um, some of the things that you talk about in one of the panels that you're in with other men, and I'm sure we'll get into that. Um, but I'm just I've been excited, and and I know we had a reschedule a couple times. Like, I'm super stoked to have you on and to to know that you're gonna be in in this season of the daughter podcast, man.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Oh, thanks for that. And uh I've been looking forward to it too. Um I don't I don't normally schedule stuff on Sunday, man. So, you know, you're you're special. We're recording this on a Sunday evening, and I I usually hold that day as sacred. But I told my wife, I said, you know, this is special. This is this guy, you know, we connected. I just I feel like we're you know, we're sort of like, you know, same wavelength. I really want to do this podcast, and so I need to do this on Sunday. And she's like, hey, whatever you gotta do, you know. So uh I mean here I am uh looking forward to it. And I love the fact that you're focusing on daughters, man. I really do. I love that that's what you do with your podcast. Uh my first child was a daughter, so for me, it uh you know, it it's very different. You know, everybody can talk about being a father to their boys because frankly, that's kind of easy. Um, but uh man, uh being a father to a daughter, especially when it's your first one. And uh, you know, you know as well as anybody. That's uh that's a journey, brother. Something.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Well, I mean, you you know, you mentioned that you love that I focus on daughters, but that's my lane, brother. Like I don't I don't have any other lane. And with I don't even know what I'm doing in that lane. So this is a a straight up effort to figure out you know how to be better, how to how to figure out how to show up better every day for the daughter for my daughters. And one thing that, you know, I've I've been fortunate enough now to be on a few a few shows of of other people, and they asked me, you know, what was one of the benefits of the podcast? And I'm sure you probably feel the same uh with yours, but for me, it's having this conversation that we're about to have, picking up those gems, and then turning off the camera, walking out and being like, I'm gonna implement this today, right now. And so it's it's academic into action, right? Like that's and for me as a knuckle drager, I need that. Like, I need to be able to take it and then go implement it right away. And man, it has been like so transformational for me to be able to talk to people like you on the show, steal those secrets from you, those those lessons, those experiences, and be like, I either don't want to do that with my daughter, so I'm you know, I'm gonna fix that, or I do want to do this, I'm gonna go do that now, and then implement that. And uh coincidentally, I think my daughters are probably benefiting from it. So, all right, that's the hope.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

I I think it's that's a sure thing that they're benefiting from everything you're learning. So, and you know, that's one of the best parts about podcasting. It really is is that you have people come on, they share their expertise, they share their uh their knowledge, but they also share their mistakes. And so we don't just learn from our own mistakes, we have to learn from each other. Um, and that's one of the one of the biggest benefits of of podcasting the way you do, the way I try to do, from our hearts, you know, and just trying to be authentic and like you said, stay in our lane. Yeah, this is who we are. You know, I don't talk about anything in a podcast that I don't know what I'm talking about, right? You know, that's if I haven't done it myself and had a few scars doing it, then I'm not gonna take up the conversation. You know, I leave that sword on the ground. So I know you do too.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

So well, before we get too deep into conversation, give us a little bit about Rory, right? I know you're busy, guys. Seven shows, seven podcasts that he runs. And let me tell you, I am like holding on to rocks with my nails to hold one podcast. So this man runs seven. Give us a little bit of your background, not just podcasting, but uh who Rory is, you know, your kids, you know, we already know you have a daughter, and uh yeah, bring us into your world a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 8:04

For sure. You know, I gotta give yourself a little grace, man, because I'm not active duty, right, in the armed services, and I don't have three kids at home. All right. So uh just to start with, yeah. Uh my name is Rory Paquette. I'm a podcast host, I'm a podcast coach. I coach uh men and women on podcasting, I coach men and women on public speaking, uh I coach um mostly men in leadership, you know, and becoming better fathers and husbands. Um, you know, so I I I've been doing that for a long time, and I do this full time. So when you're able to do this full time, you can have seven shows and you can figure out how to do it, right? So um I do have three uh a wonderful wife, I have three kids. Um my daughter is uh 32 and she's from my first marriage, which lasted like a minute and a half. Um then I did it not only right, but I did it better than I ever could have done it, found the most remarkable woman in the entire world. Uh she could do better than me on accident and somehow is still with me after all these years. And um I have two boys with her that are 25 and 21. And you know, they're bigger than me, they're stronger than me, they're smarter than me. I mean, it's it's everything you could ever ask for. And boy, my daughter, unfortunately, is me in the female body. And so we just, man, it as an adult to have an adult friendship with her the way I do now is um you know, as father and daughter, is is one of the best things in the world because we'll we just go at it and um it's it's amazing, it really is. So I get to enjoy empty nesting right now and pursuing you know my my best life and my dreams, which is why I have seven podcasts, man. So that's a little bit about me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Well said. Uh I I can't wait to dive into some of those those little holes you left in the uh in the story there. Let's just talk Rory. Let's talk before, you know, where where were you were you mentally and and maybe even physically, you know, before your your daughter came in. Give us a little bit of that story because I know we were talking about about this a little bit before we hit record. And it there's there's a topic here that I really want to get into, and that's um I don't even know how do I how do I name it. It's essentially we'll say traditional masculinity for now. I don't think that's what it is yet, right? But um, I'll let you tell a story, and then I'm I'm gonna bring that in because I think that's one of those things that you and I talked about before that has very good characteristics and then also has some flawed characteristics. So let's let's get into your story and then I'm I'm gonna ask you about that.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

Right on. Okay. Um, yeah, before if you just go back to before I had my daughter, before I became a father, um, you know, I was uh typical, you know, going to college, trying to figure out life, um, and uh, you know, former athlete, you know, the whole bit. Uh I did a whole bunch of uh you know boxing and stuff like that, tried out for a football team in a pretty big major college, uh, made the hamburger squad, you know, which is the team that plays against the real good guys and just gets beat up every minute. Yeah. So um, which was fun. Um, but yeah, by and large, was really kind of just trying to find myself. And um, you know, ran into this uh this young lady who had a great time, and um, you know, this was the old days, and um, you know, we got pregnant, and it was one of those, okay, you know, well, obviously we're gonna keep it because we both believe that, and the right thing to do is to get married, and so we did. Um, you know, at the time I was also uh looking at becoming a police officer and had gone through a lot of training, a lot of testing, that sort of thing. And that takes like a year and a half to get through. And um on the night before I was supposed to go take my final physical exam. And it was the physical part of the exam. So I had been training for months, man. I was ready. It was like, right, you know, run a you know, lap and a half or something and do chin-ups, and it was like it was it was nothing. I was gonna kill it. And so I was totally ready and I was really excited. And I'm at work, and my daughter's not due for another like three weeks, and uh, I'm just excited because I wake up in the morning the next day and I go right to the thing, and as long as I pass it, I'm on my way to become a state cop in the state of Indiana, right? Which really was something I wanted to do very badly. Nope. That night, my uh my wife at the time, um, her water broke and we ended up rushing to the hospital.

SPEAKER_05 12:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

My daughter said, Hey dad, you aren't gonna be a cop. That's that. And uh, it was really amazing because I mean uh my ex-wife went through a whole bunch of labor and um it was a very tough delivery. Uh only child she ever had because of that. But my daughter finally comes out, I'm holding her in my arms. And brother, I I just I was done. I was like, you know what, I I can't risk my life as a profession because this person I'm holding in my hands right now is depending on me for life. And I mean, it was if it was something out of a movie, it would have been like the light shone and the the angels were singing. I mean, it changed my entire life right at that moment, like like nothing I'd ever seen prior. And I just said, Well, uh, I can't be a cop. I I gotta figure something else out. So that's it's kind of how we got started, you know. Um was that way. I'm sitting here and I've got a wife and a kid, and I have no idea what's next, except that I've got to take care of this kid.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

So it's amazing the power that that little creature has right off the bat.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we found out real quick how tough it was to be parents. Um, you know, we weren't really strong as a couple, obviously. You know, we got together because of the baby. Um, and uh I don't blame my ex-wife, man. It's everything's everybody's fault, you know. I I definitely could have been been better at a million things. Um my uh my daughter actually just got married um in October of this year, so just a couple months ago. And um, yeah, me and my ex-wife sat next to each other at the wedding, you know what I mean? So it's it's just one of those things. Um, but you know, one of the things that hit me right out of the gate, um, you know, we take the the child home and you're you're reading books because we didn't have internet back then.

unknown 14:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

There was no uh cell phone, there was no internet to look things up, there was no YouTube to figure out how to change a diaper, you know. You had like pages that you had to read that had diagrams that weren't very well done. And um, you know, so I'm trying to figure everything out. Uh I learned real quick how tough it is to be a man in that situation, how tough it is to be put in a situation where you have no experience, you've never really been taught anything, um you don't have anybody to ask because it's just the two of us and the kid, we're all alone. Um, so unless you have really strong parents, which I didn't have at the time either, uh father was gone from a very young age, and mother was at the time dying of cancer. So I'm just sitting there like, you know, all alone. And as a man, you go, I have to figure this out. And so the pressure that you take on of not only having to provide for all of these brand new expenses, as you well know. I mean, you have no idea how much a kid costs till you have a kid, and then you're like, Woof. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Right?

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Oh my telling you what a business.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

What a racket. What a racket. But it is, yeah. So, you know, I don't begrudge anybody making money, but come on, you know. So uh anyway, but you learn really, really quickly that you need a ton of help, and you also learn that you have nowhere to go for it. So that that pressure looking back is one of the things that um you know wipes out a marriage. It's one of those things that that wipes you out as a couple, it it wipes you out as an employee trying to do anything. Um, and and nobody gets prepared for that, you know. So I I think that's one of the things that we started talking about a little was, you know, men, one of the hardest things for them um in becoming fathers is that they are just overcome with fear at every step because you're afraid of failing, you're afraid of not doing it right, you're afraid of looking like you can't do it. I there's you know, there's a million things going on in your head and no help at all. So you're not an island, you're on an island, man, when that happens.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Dude, I just had um I had a uh a comment. Uh I was it was the interview with with Dan, and he mentioned that he's like, I never wanted a daughter, I was afraid to have a daughter. He said that, right? Uh in in in that context. So guys, don't take it out of context. Here, go watch the episode. It's way more to that to that story than that. Regardless, the that comment, um excuse me, that that that clip, if you will, generated a comment. Several comments, actually. And we know the internet's full of amazing comments, just such um uh what do you call those comments? Um such value-added comments. But it said, like, men aren't afraid to have daughters, and and and at first, like, you know, your your ego gets hit, like, you know, you start typing. And then I sat and like, well, what why would we say that? Because I said that too. I agreed with that 100%. And it all the things that you just said were which were much better uh allocated than what I wrote, but it was pretty much that, right? It's it's not necessarily fear of the little girl, it's fear of what we can and cannot provide for that little girl. And that's just it's not simply roof of the head, food, um, shelter, like we it's not just that. It's what will I do that will affect her, and what will I not do that will affect her? Because everything in me is going to affect her one way or another. Yeah, and that's to me, and maybe you can elaborate on that, but that to me is the fear.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Yeah. Yeah, brother, it's uh you're hitting the nail right on the head. Um it's never about the child. No nobody's afraid of of the baby at all. You know, you're afraid of of what goes along with it, you're afraid of um you know how it how it's perceived, you're afraid of of what you're gonna do to them later on down the road. Um you know, there's another aspect to this that really doesn't get talked about either in the same topic line here, and that is that as men, we don't ever get any help or do any work on what we went through as children with our parents. So if we've had any kind of rough childhood, uh then we are absolutely petrified of any of that rubbing off on our current kids.

SPEAKER_05 19:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

And, you know, I came from a really rough childhood, you know, brutal childhood, actually. And um, so immediately I was like, okay, how do I make sure that nothing like this ever occurs with uh with me, with my daughter, with my uh with my job, anything like that, uh, with my wife, you know, uh you have to always be worrying about all that. And when you're sitting there like that and you're worrying about everything that you dealt with as a child, and then you're also dealing with everything that you're dealing with right there in the moment with your child, that's that's something that never gets talked about either. Because men don't heal. We don't get help for the old wounds, we just carry them on, and then you know, we have to deal with all the new ones on our own. So it's kind of like the double whammy, you know, for us.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Well, you almost didn't have a reason to go heal those wounds until then, right? Like you go into life and you are who you are at that point, you're doing the thing that you're doing, and then your child gets there and you're like, oh crap. Like, what do I fall back on? Well, it's it's the training I received, right? Whatever that was, now you realize I now have to figure out what that was. And that's the scary part.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah, yeah, 100%. 100%. It's brutal, but it's something that we all have to deal with, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Yeah, absolutely. So you have your daughter. Uh, you said prior to that, you know, uh you decided, hey, we should get married because that's what we that's that's the responsible thing to do. We're gonna we're gonna get married. Um you took her home. You're trying to look for the playbook, I'm sure. It's no nowhere to be found. And um I'll take you a little bit into the conversation we had about your marriage too, because one thing that I learned, um I say the hard way. I I again as I mentioned, I you know, my wife and I were together eight and a half years before we had our kid. Right? Our first child. That's that's a game changer, right? Because it's just her and I. And we know each other and we've been learning each other and we've been growing together. So now you have this kid. However, when when my wife just made a human, it inevitably changed her, and it changed the dynamic of our circle at that time. And so now you take your child home. Your wife is different, she just went through tremendous I'll say the word work just to get the child to you. So she's definitely changed. Your relationship inevitably has started to change because you now you have this child. And I'm sure from there, as you mentioned before, you know, you got together because of the kid. So now what does that look like?

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Yeah, it looks like what you would think it it looks like, you know. Um the um all of that that stuff that you bring into the relationship, then because you haven't really had a chance like you guys did, at least you had eight years to to build you, the two of you together, that unit. And um, we didn't have that. There really was no unit. We were just sort of uh there for a common objective, you know. Um, I think both of us went into it knowing it wasn't gonna last. We just didn't know how long it was gonna take. And um, you know, when you go into something like that, you're just doing the best you can. I mean, you're like you said, you're hanging on by your fingernails, you know, just sort of hoping you don't plummet to your death, you know. Um, but uh inevitably it it all blows up, you know, because you you don't have anything built, you have no trust. Um, everything is the other person's fault. And you know, you you can't blame yourself for everything because you're trying to act like you know, you're pretty sure you're right, even though you have no actual idea what the answer key says. And um, you know, so it just becomes a when you're isolated like that, you have nobody else to blame for everything you're worried about except each other. And it all explodes, you know. So at the end of it, um, I think over the years, you know, my ex-wife and I have done a pretty good job looking back on making sure that my daughter was sort of in first place. Um, but that was that was tough too. You know, I don't know how much you want to get into the whole, you know, co-parenting thing, but um, one of the big mistakes that men make is they feel like they have to win. You know, they always want to win the argument or they want to win the situation or they want to prove to their ex why they're right. And um, you know, that's where you end up with the kid in the middle of a lot of stuff. And uh it's that speaky ego, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah, that eagle will kill you, it'll mess your whole thing up. Yeah, I've always been um very into the self-sacrifice model of masculinity. Um, it's my job to take care of the people who depend on me before I take care of me, period. Um, so for me, I figured out I don't need to be right, I don't I don't need to have a fight, I need to make peace for my daughter. Now, that led to my daughter having some pretty wrong ideas about things as she grew up, but I trusted, and as we moved on, and I remarried, and you know, we started having kids, and my wife and I trusted that at some point my daughter would see what's really happening. She'd look back and understand through a different lens, and that's a really tough bit of faith to have to walk. Trying to walk that faith and say, hey, she might think I'm you know the scum of the earth right now because her mother's telling her that. But you know what, I'm not gonna get into this. Well, she's bad, I'm not, blah, blah, blah. And so, you know, with the co-parenting thing, man, that's that's where a lot of men fail to is our egos take over. We feel like we have to win. And instead of just going, you know what, I'm gonna if she wants to win, let her win. I'm gonna keep peace, and eventually my daughter's gonna see the truth. Because if you really are right, then your daughter will see it eventually. Right. And she does now. And I know it and she knows it. Some of it's unspoken, some of it's been spoken. You know, she's a lot like me, so she's not afraid to talk and speak her mind, um, which really is fun now. Yeah. Uh, because we both know exactly where we are with each other, and we're incredibly close. And that that's just so important now as I move forward in life, you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Yeah. When uh when in that process, or excuse me, when did you guys divorce uh at what age was your daughter?

SPEAKER_04 26:32

Six months. Wow. We made it we made it through through the the pregnancy and then six months. And I mean, I was that was it. We just yeah, it wasn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

And it it was a battle from the beginning?

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was lawyers and parenting time and you know, visitation and child support, and you know, I mean, all that for a moment one until I decided to say, nope, not gonna not gonna participate in a fight anymore. And that took a few years. Yeah, you know, there was there was a lot of manipulation and pain and nonsense. Um, but you know, when you figure it out, then there it all becomes kind of freeing. Yeah. And you know, then you can you can get it done. But uh the person who helped me the most with all of it, to be honest, is my wife. Um when she met me, I had a daughter. So from the from the get-go, she knew what she was getting into. Um sort of not sure she really knew.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Uh the full scale, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah, the full scale, yeah. But um, but honestly, year after year after year, even today, my wife is the one who keeps me crowned, man. And um, you know, when I get all caught up in my Italian, you know, temper or ego or whatever machismo that I think I should have, you know, my wife is the one who like pats me on the head and goes, you know, sit down, tiger, breathe, focus, you know, what what's for the better good here? She's always been that way. So if it wasn't for her, I I I never would have made it through the way I do.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

No, so I gotta ask you just because I I started to get curious. So what's her background growing up? Does she have her dad around? Her her relationship was different with her dad than obviously what you had going up.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

My current wife, you're talking about. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. She's um fourth of five kids. Um, mom and dad stay together, you know, type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So we lost both of them early to uh different types of illnesses, but uh she didn't come from divorce or abuse or anything like that. No, she she had good family, and um, I mean they ended up taking me in too and and really supporting supporting the two of us and my family.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

The reason I ask is is is when you have that rock, you're you're I mean you're saying she really you know allowed that boat to to stay in a in a level level playing field, right? Because you know that she was that person for you, but that comes from a playbook she had somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

And I think I think it's really important to point that out because as you mentioned in your in your podcast before, and I know we had this conversation, the importance of what you just did for your daughter, the importance of staying as grounded as possible, staying as level-headed as possible. Unfortunately, you know, there's probably a lot in there that I that we may we can get into if you want, but it sounds like as you guys started to get back together, she started to see the benefit of that. In my my um uneducated mind, if you will, has to assume that that is gonna carry on to her as well. Just like it carried on to your wife, your current wife, who was someone's daughter, who ho who sounds like allowed her to learn that calm, you know, um just to be that that that person to be able to help someone out in that situation.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

Yes, it's definitely already being passed on to her. Um you know, and again, that's that's has a lot to do with my wife. Um, she's a she and my daughter have a very special relationship, you know, and it's never been um, you know, being a mom. It's always been being a you know, an advisor. Um, I mean, stepmom even wasn't a word that got used a lot. It was just, you know, um my my wife's name is Andrea, and she goes by Andy, and my daughter would draw pictures in school of the family, and it would be here's my dad, uh, here's my mom, here's my Andy, here's my brother, here, you know, it was a family position to be an Andy. Yeah. So to her, it was like, Well, she's my Andy.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Well, what's your Andy? She is married to my dad, she's my Andy. You know, it was never my stepmom, or you know, there was no Mother's Day card with the word mother on it, or it was, and my wife always was like very respectful of her mom. And hey, that's that's you and your mom. You and I are different, we have a different relationship. So, again, to her credit. Um, I was very lucky in that way. And so I think you know, one thing guys want to look out for, and I've said this on my podcast probably a million times you have to recognize where you're coming from, so you can recognize who you get hooked up with.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Now I got lucky, but if I would have, you know, um met and fallen in love with a woman who came from a divorced background and abuse and all kinds of toxic other stuff, we may have fed each other into a frenzy and just destroyed ourselves. I mean, uh so you really have to you have to pay attention to who you're teaming up with when you have kids because it isn't it can't just be about how you feel, it's got to be about your children first in that way.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

Yeah. How long was that battle once you guys got divorced? She's six months old, and obviously you start to you it sounds like you want to be around your daughter. It's not like you're just like, you know, all right, fine. So what does that look like from that point on?

SPEAKER_04 32:20

Well, I to the battle, you know what I mean? I'm not sure it ever actually ends, but the uh I stopped battling when she was nine. That's when I realized, dude, you've got to stop your part in this mess. You know, um, and I realized that, and things changed instantly. So, because you know, my ex-wife would call up and want to scream at me about stuff, and I just wouldn't participate. You know, I'd be like, okay. Okay, okay. And she's like, is that all you have to say? And I'm like, Yep. It's nothing else, you know, and that was oh, it was tough. Okay, I mean, again, that's really tough. But um, I think it my my ex-wife really didn't stop fighting until my daughter was probably in her 20s. She just kept on, you know, kept kept coming with fists flying. Yeah, so you know, now it's over. You know, I mean, that was one thing that her wedding really cemented for everybody was that it's over, we're fine.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

It's were you able to get custody of your daughter right away? Like did you guys have 50-50?

unknown 33:28

No.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

When I guess when when did the legal battle, it sounds like the um interpersonal battle continued for a while. Right. Right, but when were you able to I I don't know if I don't know if the the word is when, right? But when were you able to get to where you can see your daughter more regularly?

SPEAKER_04 33:47

The legal battle started on day one, and um in Indiana they have something called parenting time, and that is you know, it's all laid out. You get, you know, like one day a week. Uh for us it was Wednesday, and then you get every other weekend from Friday night to Sunday evening, uh, with which is two nights, you know. That that's what you get.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

So is that dad parenting time? Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_04 34:08

Yep, that's dad parenting time because there is no custody battle. Um and to be honest, it's and no offense to you, you haven't been through it, thank God, you know, for you. Um, the only people who think that there's any kind of custody fight or anything are folks who haven't been through it, you know, and so you just don't know what you don't know. That's fair. Anyone who's ever been through that, men don't get custody.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Well, that's where I kind of I I want to take it a little bit there because you're right. I uh thankful that that has not been my my lot in life. Um I have I have several friends who've had to go through the custody battle. And man, it just this is obviously the unpopular conversation, right? Like it's almost like the the governing laws make it to where it's hard to be a dad in that point when in reality we want the dad to be involved. We we have all the data, dude. The data is in, like the more involved the father is in a positive manner, the better the child is, therefore, the better the adult is, therefore, the better the society is like it's like this whole thing that that's mapped out and people still try to argue it, and yet when I hear a story like yours, when you know, when I'm with friends who are just fighting, and I say custody again in um ignorance is bliss, right? Like, oh, you're fighting a custody battle. No, you're fighting to just be a father, right? Because the one that cares wants to be a father. I mean, how much of that? I won't even ask you how much is frustrating because that just sounds frustrating to me, and I'm on the outside. Um, that's gotta be draining, brother.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

It really is. It's um it's it's horrible, you know. It isn't just the money that leaves all of a sudden. Um, you know, because uh child support's unforgiving, you know. I mean, different states have different rules, so I'll say that first. Um, I know a lot of different states. Uh I also, since since early on in the Power of Man podcast, I uh I got very involved in the um, you know, father's rights movement. And I've done a lot of work with a lot of those guys out there and had a lot of them on. Uh I've interviewed a lot of fathers and talked to them about their struggles. So different states do have different rules and different things you have to go through. The in Indiana, I'm I'm blessed because Indiana's just so cut and dry. And so my lawyer was very simple. He's like, There's no way you get it. There's no point in fighting for it. It's already written, here it is. Wow. You know, you have to prove that the mom is like beyond a shadow of a doubt of a doubt, incapable of. And there's really no way to do that. I gotta be honest with you. And that sounds defeatist, but it's just true. So it happens a lot, like when you're talking about guys you may know, is that their lawyer says, hey, we can try for custody, let's give it a shot, and they go, All right, let's try. And thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars later, they land right where the lawyer knew they were gonna land with you know, visitation and no custody. That's just how it goes. A couple of states have tried to do the 50-50 custody thing, but they're not willing to get rid of child support yet. And there's a big reason for a lot of that. So, and I don't know how much you want to go into that, but the bottom line is and and people who hear this and have a problem with it, I dare you to look it up. Judges make commission. That's real.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

What?

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Yep, you heard it. And I'm telling you right now, there's when I first heard it, I went, no way, until you look it up.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

No, there is there are um benefits paid back for to the um the different precincts, to the different judges themselves, based on child support that is awarded through the court because they want the children cared for. It's not even a joke. It's really awful. It blows your mind because you're like, there's no way that's true, until you look it up. And it's true.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

I am legitimately speeches.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

Like, I don't even tell me, you know, and and and and I've said this before on my podcast and had people go, oh, you're just bitter. I'm like, did you look it up? Well, no. Well, then don't talk to me. Go look it up. Wow. You you can Google it, it's it's there. Now, different again, again, different states, different things, but um, it's not in anybody's interest. The entire system is operating on the father paying. The more the father pays, the more everybody in the whole food chain makes. You know, if you go in and you settle everything with a mediator, then the lawyers don't get to bill you thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Right? If you you you agree on, hey, we're just gonna split custody and nobody has to pay anybody, well, then there's no money changing hands in the court system.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Yeah. Someone can say, wait a minute, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Billions of dollars going through the court system.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Billions. And you also got to figure that it goes in, it's held, then it gets paid. Well, while it's being held, interest is being made. I mean, this is just simple, you know, money. Um honestly, it's the worst money laundering scheme you're ever gonna see in your life. But that's that's a whole other episode, man. It really, really is.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Yeah, at the end of it, it's the dad just trying to have the kid for Father's Day. You know, and and that's that. And when you have a an ex-wife um who is savvy, who understands the law, um, who gets it, then they they go, well, if I just don't obey this parenting time, he really doesn't have any recourse. What's he gonna do?

SPEAKER_03 40:04

Dude, it's like a double-edged sword. Because if you know that the system works that way, and you don't not that you have an option, but let's just say you don't partake, right? Right? You may hurt the system, yet your child is like, you don't care about me. Or that's the way they use it, right? But then but then you have dads that are like, I'll do whatever it takes. So then the system benefits, and yet it's just an uphill battle for a father to be a father.

SPEAKER_04 40:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you honestly, I I counsel dads when I talk to them, like, you know what, pay it. Do your absolute best in the time you have. Right. Because the more you fight it, the more you come closer to false accusations, to you know, um, oh well, he you know, hit me or he did this, or whatever. And brother, you're guilty before you're innocent in every single case. And and then you're you risk not seeing the kid at all. You know, so I I tell dads, look, pay the money, consider it that you're ransoming your kid from the state until they're 18 years old and move on. Because you know what? This is this is what you have to pay for making that mistake in who you chose to marry, and that's just that. It's brutal, it really is.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Those words hurt even more. Yeah, you're you're paying ransom to have a time with your child.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

We had some unique stuff come up because I took that attitude of, you know what, I'm I'm gonna just make sure I I keep as much of my time as I can have. I'm gonna make the absolute most of it that I can make, and I'm not gonna fight what I know I can't beat, okay, over here. Because why why give you know, on top of everything else? You're you're spending thousands of dollars uh on you know, giving away to give it to child support, then you also have to figure out how to you know pay rent, take care of your, you know, your wife, your new family, everything else. Nobody cares about that. So you get into those situations, and the last thing you can do is spend three to five thousand dollars on a lawyer to sell an argument in court. It's like it's not worth the time to have the argument in court. So I said I'm gonna put as little money into the lawyer's pocket as possible. I'm gonna spend the most amount of time I can with my daughter, I'm gonna do the best that I can to make her understand the type of man I am during that time. And that doesn't mean telling her her mom's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

It means showing her who I really am and leading by example, by leading my family, um, you know, and and and teaching her everything I could possibly teach her in that time frame. It's really tough to do because at every single step you you just want to scream at the moon. But when you can persevere like that, then you come out the other side and you get to have what I have now, which is an amazing relationship with my daughter that I wouldn't trade for the world. Yeah. But it's tough, man. It is really, really tough to get there.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Yeah, I mean, I I have a hard time sometimes, you know, disciplining my daughters in a certain way, whatever that is, right? Hey, we gotta do this, we gotta do this, and then maybe my wife not taking the same uh attitude towards a project that we're doing as me, and that's frustrating enough. But if you're having your child, I think you said one day a week and every other weekend, is that what you said? Yeah, I mean, dude, you're like you're pouring in with a fire hose, and it it's she's coming out dry at the at the other end when she comes back to you.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

Yeah, yeah, it's difficult. You know, and back then too, we didn't have uh, I mean, cell phones were fairly new when they were coming out during our time frame. Um, I know it's a little different now because you can text and you can communicate, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

FaceTime and all, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Yeah, you know, I mean, if I could have been FaceTiming my kid and texting her and stuff and communicating, you know, maybe things would have been a little easier. Um, but even then, you know, I mean, parents are still gonna stop whatever they can stop whenever they can stop it. So uh the the key is to just not inflame the situation, yeah. You know, you gotta keep your pride out of it, and no, no man can, especially at the beginning. None of us can.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

So okay, so this happens. So this I didn't mean to get you all bogged out of this, brother. I mean, I'm like this is just part of it.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Again, it you know, ignorance is bliss, brother. Like, and it's something that I would never one, I would never try to, but two, I I couldn't bring that type of information to people without having someone that has gone through it, right? And so so that's key in in the show. But okay, so um let me uh re- recalibrate to to to to the good things. Or we'll we'll still keep it real, but let's just go to the good things. So six months old, you you start obviously this this battle that has lasted for a long time. Yeah, you you fight, fight, fight, fight, because I assume in your mind as a man, that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, and you're your button heads and you're you know, probably not making it any better, as you mentioned. Right. Talk to me a little bit about the ownership portion. So at some point. You figure out I have to own some of this. And I know that for me, it's a much different situation. But for me, there was a point where my daughter is now. She must have been uh I don't know, four or five. My my first daughter. Uh we had just had our second daughter. That's what it was. We just had a second daughter, and I'm driving down, and a buddy recommended a book, and I was doing a bunch of growth, but I was still like dragging my knuckles. I was just like not, I was like listening to podcasts, I think, and and books, but it was not there was no implementation, it was just hard like to to um digest it all. And it came a time when my second daughter got to us where I was like, holy crap, like I've I have to own this and this and this, and all of a sudden everything kind of shifted. It didn't get easier, but it definitely got simpler. So not easy, just simpler. Can you can you relate to that?

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Yeah. And there's a couple things that you have to own, you know, when you're in the situation that I was in. So I mean I appreciate the the analogy. Um, because it in your case, you know, you've got to own your behavior, you've got to own what your sort of the fissure between you and your wife or between you and your kids, there is some that's on you that you have to own so you can change it and move forward, right? When you get into a position where you're divorced, um there no matter what you do, it isn't gonna change your relationship with your ex. Right, yep. Unless she decides to change it as well. So that's different, but you still have to own your relationship with your child. And again, I think that a lot of that happens somewhere around maybe that nine, 10-year-old mark, okay, where I kind of realized all I'm doing is making this harder on my kid. And I need to do everything I can to, you know, sort of own it, like you're saying. You know, I didn't look at it that way then, but you you look back and you go, that's kind of what I was doing, and I see it that way now, and say, what's in my power to change? Right, to you know, lead at least my relationship with my daughter differently.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

And I can't do anything, for instance, about what her mother's teaching her.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:46

Right? All I can do is say, hey, I know that your mom's teaching you this. Let me at least tell you what I believe, and then you can make up your own mind.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

And so she today is able to do that because I didn't say your mother's wrong. This is what it is. I said, that's what your mom believes. Let me tell you what I believe, and then you can decide what you want to do. How does that sound? As soon as I took that tact with a lot of things, um, then and and I owned that part of it, then I think my my daughter really she embraced that a lot because she really wanted to feel empowered. And when you're a divorced kid, you feel like you have no power.

unknown 48:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Because you're just getting dragged. You know, four o'clock, I'm here, six o'clock tomorrow, I'm there. Right. It's not like anybody asks you, hey, do you want to go or do you want to go home now? Or, you know, uh, you don't get a vote because everything's dictated by parenting time. So when you can give the kid that kind of empowerment, um, and and you own your part of it, and you have to own that you don't have control, which is really hard. You know, with my boys, my wife and I could sit down and go, How are we gonna do this? Well, we're gonna do it this way. All right, that's it. We're doing it this way. Right. And I'm in control. That's how it's going to be. You don't have that choice when you have an ex-wife because you could decide one thing, and then as soon as your daughter goes to back to her house, everything's back to the way it was, you know, the way she wants it. So you have to you have to own that you have no control over what happens when she's not with you. That's very, very tough stuff, but but owning it was huge.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

Uh I could control you did change your relationship with your ex-wife, whether she wanted it or not, because you owned what you could on your side. And just by just by simply not um partaking in the invitation to argue alone changes that dynamic, right?

SPEAKER_04 49:43

And so that's a great point.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Yeah, actually, yeah, you are changing the relationship because you owned what you could. You're absolutely right. You can't control what another person does, what they think, what they say. But if you control your side, you can't influence, which it sounds like ultimately helped that influence. Um, but it definitely changed the relationship. And and it takes me, because I know I'm gonna lose you because we're running out of time here. It takes me into your son coming in seven years after your daughter, seven ish years after your daughter, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Ish. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

25, right? 25.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

So so technically you're still in in this headbutting thing, because your daughter's not quite nine yet. Um, but it almost feels like for me, what a what an example you started to set right off the bat by circumstance, let's say, because of all the situation you were in. But all of a sudden you started to change your your ownership and your everything that you was around you. And now your sons are going up, not only with a man who loves their mom, right, but now you have this external a little battle, not a full war, but you still have this thing that you are dealing with, and to deal with it with that grace and that attitude, I can only imagine is the example that you want to set for your sons.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

100%. 100%. When when my my first son came along, that was something that became real evident too. Yeah. So I mean, when you put it together, my daughter being around nine or ten, my son having just got there, you know. I never really thought about that the way you just laid it out. But to be honest, I'm sure that that all was working together. You know, you're going, hey, how am I gonna lead my son now, who I do have control over, you know? Um, yeah. So I'm sure that that was a huge part of it is how am I gonna lead by example to show him how you handle this stuff? That was huge. Yeah, that was huge. That was definitely a part of it.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

And you know, obviously, obviously, no no one is hoping that their son then goes to do the same thing, obviously. I hope not, but just to be able to show them how you handle this any situation, but particularly a hard one like that. Man, like that, what an example there, right? And and it all and then it also takes me to what I've always mentioned, and it took me a long time to realize with my first daughter how much work your daughter, without having chosen to, did to get you to be the man that you are now. Right? I mean, you everything that you know about parenting obviously she taught you uh up until you got your son, and then you add on the additional stress of everything that you just explained. I mean, wow, like I it makes me happy to know that your relationship with your daughter is what it is now, because that means that one, you did a lot of things right to get to that, but that I I my relationship with my oldest is special because once I realized it, I was like, dude, you're teaching me every day. Like, I don't know how to be a dad tomorrow until you teach me because you're my oldest, and we're gonna do this, and I'll be better for your sisters, right? But for you to be able to do that through this I mean, through this craziness is again, I say it naively, so you know, throw rocks at me if you will, but you'll only break your camera. Um what a beautiful thing to have that with your daughter in in a weird way. It's just like this that relationship you have with her and how much she did to be to for you to be the man that you were when you had your son, and now have having changed your dynamic and having learned so much. Like, I don't know how else to put that. I mean that that that seems like just an amazing story to have between you and your daughter.

SPEAKER_04 53:58

I appreciate that. I really do, and I agree with just about everything you said. You know, the uh my my daughter and I, I think if you asked either one of us, we've um she's definitely taught me a ton. Uh, but we've evolved. And I think that you know, from a very young age, maybe in that nine to twelve, you know, area, we both kind of realized that we were sort of like, hey, kid, we're trying to figure this out. Yeah, it's you and me, and let's figure out how we do this. Because there's never really been a like if my boys, if you if you ask them, uh an episode 300 to Power Man, they they make a lot of fun of me, you know, about all the rules I had. With my daughter, she doesn't really have all those, well, dad said this, and it had to be this, because there was a lot of how are we gonna do this? Right? Yeah, between Sharon. And we're figuring it out, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

I'm gonna have to listen to that episode just to be able to send you an email about it. Um okay, so you have your son uh seven years later, and then you have your your youngest who's now 21, so that's four years after your middle son.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

Totally, I mean, I just I always try to look at like the whole picture like a totally different person now. Better, more, probably more stable, like mentally. You're you know, you're you're uh what do you call it? You're uh you're locked on, right? You're you figured this out. You're you're a parent. Give me some of those uh actually let me ask you this how much did your daughter integrate into um into the family really with with your sons? I know that you know you have your visitations and all these things, but at some point do you start getting her more? Is she is she close to her brothers? Like, how does how does it look in your household?

SPEAKER_04 55:50

Yeah, um, she's uh she's always been close to my older son because you know they spent a lot of time together as kids. You know, my daughter was seven when he was born, and you know, so on. So they've they've been close. Um my younger child, when he came along, it was kind of like uh you know more than 10 years after. And so then when he's you know six, seven years old and doing his really developing into who he is, right? Uh my daughter's, you know, 18. Right, you know. Um, and my daughter took off for California when she was 18 to go, you know, play in a band and did all that stuff before she came back and decided to go to college, you know. Okay. So I mean she she just was that free spirit and did that. So sh they didn't have the time together. Um, so she and my older son definitely had a a relationship, you know, that has kind of uh you know continued today. She and my younger son, they're still building it. Uh, you know, even when they were at each other's weddings, you know, over this past year. Um, all three of my kids got married in the last 12 months. So yeah. So that's where all this gray hair came from, man. I used to have a black beard, right, until about a year ago. And uh, but they all got married. And so they spent all that extra time together, too, um, in each other's weddings and at each other's receptions, and you know, celebrating life and uh the planning and everything that went into it all. And it was really cool because um, you know, that's one thing my daughter has said since the last wedding was it was really nice being able to get to know, you know, Mike, uh, our youngest. And she said, I I really want to reach out and spend more time with him and just know him better. And they both feel that way, you know. But here we are, she's she's in her 30s, he's over 20, and now they're getting to know each other. Right, yeah, yeah. That's just how life works, you know. Um you can't force that stuff, you know. So, and it was different for my boys. My older son saw what was happening with my ex-wife and his sister, knew that wasn't how things were with him, but was learning that there were two different sets of rules, there was two different lives. So he grew up understanding the hybrid, you know. My youngest son was like, Why is she this way? Why is this this ex-wife person in my life making my life harder? She just ticked off my dad, and now I have to deal with this. Right. He just he had no no patience for any of it. And was like, Yeah, no. He's like, you know, my dad's not a bad guy. Why are you saying he's a bad guy? Get out of my house when he's five, you know. So he he he didn't get the idea, and so his you know, initial Italian male reaction was, you know, hey, oh, get out of my house.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

So yeah, but they're honestly, they're they're all close now, they're all great now. And you know, brother, that's just how life happens for you, you know. So you're blessed, you have three fantastic kids, they're all close in age, you got a great wife. Obviously, she puts up with you, you know. So, I mean, I oh, but uh, you know, uh you have a fantastic situation, and and what I love about you too is that you know that you do, and you work every day at not only being better at your role in it, but making sure that life is better for all of them in it. And I that's one of the things I love about you, man.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

So well, thank you. It's uh it's literally the work in progress, right? Because um, I've said it before, and I'll say it every time I I I get the opportunity. I I owe them everything. Like I owe them what I am, what I do, everything. So um I'd be remiss not to ask you because obviously, again, these are the perspectives that I couldn't bring. Give us some I don't know what I call them, tips and tricks, okay. You're you're raising your daughter in the teen years during this immensely hard time. You only have her for a little bit of time at a at a time. Um and you and I know there's there's dads out there right now doing the same thing, just trying to be a father to their daughters, they're getting into the teen years, those are the hard, hard times to really set an influence and and and help them develop to where they need to do, uh, need to go. Give us some thoughts in that time frame um during this those teen years of you you know doing your best to be a father.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

Wow, man, that's a that's one of the tough ones. Um because as a dad, when things get tough, you hold on tighter. You know, we we try to control more. We try to get everything within our grasp because we just want to control it. And one of the things I had to do, especially when she was a teenager, because you know, my daughter was a very independent-minded, uh, gonna do what I want, period, type of teenager. And um, you know, you you think you can with my boys, the idea was get ahead of it, teach them so that they don't have the problems, and then hopefully you avoid them. Honestly, it worked really well with both of them. My daughter, we didn't have that choice. So when you go into that, you have to accept a couple things. Uh, the first thing is that you have to literally do the best you can with what you have, and you have to give everybody involved a little bit of grace. The second thing is that I'm getting a little choked up. I apologize, man. Um you have to accept that a big part of your job is not to prevent it, but to be there to clean up the mess and help heal after it's happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

You're gonna choke me.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

That's really tough. Yeah. Because all we want to do as parents is stop them from touching the flame.

unknown 1:01:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:32

And the idea that we have to wait until they touch the flame and get burned and are in pain, and then our job is to be there to help them heal and to hold them when they've made the mistake is really difficult, especially for men, I think, even more. Because we're all about prevent, prevent, prevent, you know, teach discipline, you know. If if if I do my job, this won't happen. Right. You know, if these things happen, it's because I failed, right? As a father. Um, that was incredibly tough. Having to sit back a little bit and say, I'm not gonna know. I'm not gonna see the train coming down the track because she's with her mom, you know? And um, so there's an awful lot of cleaning up the mess.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

That uh, you know, as a man, you want to walk in and go, Well, how the heck did this happen in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Right, yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:28

And you can't do that, you can't go into it that way because not only will you drive yourself crazy, but you alienate everybody, including the child. Yeah, you have to go in and go, All right, this happened. I couldn't stop it because I'm not there. Uh, because she's with her mom. I need to be the best possible dad I can be starting right now. Like, you know, click go.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

And you gotta be there, and you gotta just hold them and let them cry and try to help them heal and uh try to help them learn, you know. So there's an awful lot of that you can't stop. That's probably the one of the hardest parts.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:05

One of the hardest parts.

unknown 1:03:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

Dude, it it brings to mind like a combat medic.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

Good analogy. Yeah. He's literally standing there with a bandage and some fluids waiting to go use them. Like it's insane to think about that. But that's that's what brings to mind when you're like, gotta wait until they touch the fire, so then I can put this ointment on them and then wrap their finger and try to teach them for the next time. Like, that's crazy. And and to be and because I I feel that. I feel that as a dad right now, but to be one man, I would argue that maybe the the hardest part is that you may be seeing the train, you just can't even get to it because she's at her mom's house. And she's like you're like seeing this thing happen, you're like, how are you, you know? And so I I couldn't even imagine that imagine that because I feel that as a dad is is that fine line of stopping myself from preventing everything because that's only gonna make things worse at the end. Yeah, it it's a weird thing to say.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:19

Yeah, that's that's the toughest part, man, is uh having to change your role like that and and let go a little bit, like I said. And uh you're a dad on demand when you're divorced. You know, like I said, that you push a button and you're a dad. Um, I mean, yeah, again, you know if you start getting hate mail on this, send them my way because I mean I brother I've gotten more hate mail than I can shake a stick at over all these years. I've had four death threats, man. So I mean just at this point, it's nothing. They can say whatever they want, but blame it on the blame it on the old Italian guy who came on your show.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:53

Well, the the the show's here to get perspectives, and if you can't handle a simple perspective, we you've got bigger problems than you think. Rory, man, listen, I I know I've I've held you hostage here for a little bit. Um, I could probably sit here for another hour and discuss some of these other things. I don't need to, guys, go find Rory on all seven of his podcasts, but primarily I I you know I'm I'm partial to Power Man, which is just a great show that talks a lot about these things right here. Talks a lot about how we as men can figure out, can do things to be better every single day. And just an honor to have been on your show to do that. So um let's let's tell everybody what other things you got going on and where they can find you um all over the place um before we we let you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

Um yeah, like I said, I have seven podcasts. So if they just come find me on Facebook, honestly, brother, without wasting all your time on your show. Um I'm one of these old guys who just I host everything off my Facebook platform. Everything has its own, but if you just come find me on Facebook, um that's where I'm at. It's at RoryPocket. You know, the name's on the screen, it's in the show notes. Um, and that's it. All one word at RoryPocket. It's an open account. I talk about all my podcasts there. Uh, you can find links to everything there, and just look me up there, you know, and and we can talk about whatever it is you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Awesome. I'll make sure to put those links down in the show notes for you guys so you guys can easily get to Rory and get some learning on. I'm telling you, you'll want to go there. Rory man, I was excited for the show, and now I'm like, believe it or not, excited to go and edit this show, even though you and I know I hate the editing portion of this, but the editing portion allows me to re-listen, and it's actually been very, very much a learning tool for me. It's funny how if you ask God to help you learn, it's never like here you go, you just learned. It's all these other things that you have to get to to learn, right? And and it's just funny how that works, but this is part of that process, and um, I'm excited to listen to this again. I may have lost hearing a couple of times when we were talking because I can't I just I still can't believe I can't believe that. Um not that I don't believe you, I just can't believe the process. Um but again. Rory, your time is so valuable, and I can't thank you enough for spending a little bit with us here at the Daughter Podcast. Um thank you, man. I don't know what else to tell you. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:28

Absolutely my pleasure, brother. Thanks for having me on anytime.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

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