The Hard Truth About Fatherhood: Why Being an Engaged Dad Matters More Than Ever w/ Jon Hord

Most dads don’t miss it on purpose… they just don’t realize it’s happening.

In this episode, we dive into a realization that hits hard once you see it—the time you think you have with your kids isn’t what you think. Not the time in the same house. Not the time spent driving them around. But the real, meaningful connection time.

This conversation unpacks how many fathers unintentionally trade presence for provision, and how easy it is to give our best energy to work while our families get what’s left.

Jon Hord is a father, coach, and founder of The Engaged Father Project—a community and coaching platform dedicated to helping dads become more intentional, present, and connected before it’s too late. Through his work, he helps fathers recognize where their energy is going and how to shift toward what matters most.

This episode is a gut check—but also a reminder:

👉 You don’t need more time. You need more presence.

🎙️ Listen now—and share this with a dad who needs to hear it.

The Engage Father Project

Jon on Instagram

The Community on Skool

We talk about:

• Why time with your kids feels like it speeds up overnight
• The difference between being physically present vs truly engaged
• How your actions (not your words) shape your child’s reality
• Why most dads believe “family comes first”… but live differently
• Simple ways to start showing up better—starting today

00:00 Time Window Reality

00:59 Show Intro Welcome

02:06 Guest Background Mission

03:46 75 Percent By Twelve

09:57 Family First Audit

10:20 Childhood Playbook

13:25 Provider Mindset Trap

22:08 Career Stress Breaking Point

27:28 Leaving To Coach

29:11 Engaged Father Origins

29:58 Retirement Myth

30:08 Jenny Sparks Idea

31:38 Engaged Father Project

32:38 Energy Pie Chart

34:37 Quality Time Presence

36:02 Kids Notice Distraction

39:22 Help Without Asking

41:16 Men And Vulnerability

44:00 Handling Family Conflict

50:29 Perspective With Kids

55:01 Find John And Join

58:30 Final Takeaways

Guest Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the guests. They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the host, any organizations, companies, or institutions mentioned, or corporate entities represented by the host.

Our aim is to provide a platform for diverse perspectives and open dialogue. While we strive for accuracy and balance, it's important to recognize that opinions may vary. We encourage critical thinking and further exploration of the topics discussed.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

In reality, like the window closes before that. And there's a a you know, a jarring and kind of an interesting fact that I came across um that said by the time that our kids turn 12, 75% of all of the in-person face-to-face time that we're ever going to have with them is gone. If you stopped and you asked somebody like an unbiased person that was able to view your life, like let's say there's a camera in your house and they're recording all your all your actions for for a week, or they're not just in your house, they're following you around for your whole life. If they looked at that, would they say that family is first based off of what you're actually doing? If if you only took value in making better and aligned decisions during moments of conflict with your family, if you only got your head around that and made significant improvement there, I think the reward is massive.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Welcome to the Daughter Podcast, where fathers become everyday heroes in their daughters' lives. Grow, evolve, and lead with love. Here's your host, Oscar Pinya.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Daughter Podcast. Oscar here, your fellow growing girl dad, today with another dad who is making an amazing difference in the world of dads. Today, my guest is John Horde, and he's with us to discuss a few things that he's learned as a coach to a lot of fathers, um, but also some of the things that he's learned as a father himself. John, man, how are you today? Thanks, Oscar.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Uh, honestly, I'm excellent. And I I try to make that kind of a stock answer, I believe, and like what we say out loud, um, can affect other things, but I truly am excellent. Um, my kids had their cousins over for a sleepover last night, and we had an absolute ball. So, like they're out. I just saw one of my kids come down. They're grabbing like painting supplies, they're like sneaking down the steps to grab some things. So, like, life is truly awesome at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Awesome. Well, John has a plethora of a background, which I'm sure he can get into or not. But I will tell you is that he is a father, a husband, and also a leader in his work with fathers, and that is through the Engage Father Project. I am extremely blessed to be able to be part of that project. And guys, I am learning a ton, and I promise you we'll get into some of that as we go through the conversation. But, John Man, give us a little bit of your background and how you got to where you are with your work, and then also what got you to sit in front of the daughter podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Yeah, so you know, the Engaged Father Project. Um, when I say that, really, yeah, it could mean a couple different things. So it started out as a group coaching program for fathers to help them get really clear on the type of dad that they want to be before it's too late. And so, what do I mean by before it's too late? Like, I think the easiest metric for that would be like before our kids grow up and leave the house. Um, because not that we are done being a father at that point, but like our ability to to be a parent and to instill things in our kids, to model things for our kids that we want for them to live, you know, this happy and prosperous and fulfilled life. Like there's a there's a timeline on that, right? And I said 18 because that's a really easy marker, because for a lot of people, they're packing their bags and and going off to college. But in reality, like the window closes before that, and there's a a you know, a jarring and kind of an interesting fact that I came across um that said by the time that our kids turn 12, that 75% of all of the in-person face-to-face time that we're ever going to have with them is gone by 12. And then by the time they turn 18, that percentage goes up to 90%. And so when you think about it that way, you know, it feels like we have a lot of time, but the truth is, like, we don't. So it's about making the time count that we have.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah. On the not the first episode ever of the podcast, but our first guest of the podcast um back in 2024, um, Trevor came in and just dropped that bomb on us. And I remember that exact content of the conversation because at first I was like, whatever, dude. Like, I don't, I, you know, I'm gonna need some data because this doesn't make any sense. And then we finished the episode, and it it jarred in my brain, and I'm like, 75% at the age of 12. And at the time, I had a 12-year-old, and so I was like, all right, let's really think through this. And you start thinking, and I remember he mentioned that the data wasn't specifically like face-to-face time, it was like, and and it it could be varying, I'm sure, but it was specifically talking about actual time, so like not like in the process of driving to something, and you know, the interaction of you know, chores and and homework, and like it was like real, just like actual time where we get to spend with that person. And I started to do the math in our family, it kind of put it in in my context. I was like, okay, I'm at work from this time to this time, she's at school. Um, I don't see her till this time. I'm normally, you know, her and I are normally not at each other's throat, but like not uh interacting the way that that really we want to from this time to this time because it's chores time, or this it's homework, or something's going on, um, or we're driving here, or I say hello, and then I gotta go take her sister to somewhere else. So I started to really zero that in. And I remember talking to Trevor, and I said, bro, I think it's worse than 75%. Yeah, like and it started to hurt. I was like, dude, I already have a 12-year-old. Like, what have I done this whole time? What have I done? Um, and to your point on time, it feels like we have a lot of time, yeah. And I think for me, when I started to realize how unpresent I was at that moment, I started to feel time go faster. So that's something that I really noticed, right? It's like you talk about the engaged father, right? And we're gonna have to get into a little bit of this because for me, engaged father or my father's role was different than when it hit me that I wasn't really engaged in their life. So time may have not felt like it was speeding then, but as soon as that weight hit me, I was like, dude, every morning that they'd wake up, still that they wake up, I'm like, who are you? It feels like time is gone, and so it starts to feel like an anxiety thing. You're like, oh my gosh, I don't have enough time. Now, as of the second, I've got a 14-year-old, and I'm like, bro, who I don't even know what what happened, right? We're having a right, we're having a birthday party with uh teenage girls and like weird music and like coffee or what do they call it? Like those fancy coffee. Like, I just my mind's blown, dude. So how did we get here, right? Exactly. I I'm like taking all the time here to talk, but I just like you you trigger something that is just been since that time, it's just been going over and over. It's like, dude, we're losing time, we're losing time, and it's just getting shorter and shorter and shorter.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Yeah, it's almost like in the matrix, like when like when you take that pill and you see things like as they are, you can't unsee it. Um so it is it is a jarring statistic to throw out there, but it's really helpful because it's helpful because if we feel the urgency now while we can actually do something about it, what a gift that is. And I do have a way that we can slow our perception of time down. We can get into that um if you want to. But what a gift to have that awareness now when we still have an opportunity to to spend this kind of time with our kids instead of getting that like slap in the face when they just leave and you're like it's over. It's like I'm I'm still being a dad, but like they don't they don't live here anymore. Like they're a they're a legal adult. Like there's things that have changed to where like if I want to say something and they don't like it, they don't they don't have to listen. Yeah. So like that that feeling, my kids are still young. So I fortunately I haven't had to go through that, but I'm not willing to go through whatever that feels like because I know I I know I'm not gonna like it, but I do have you know factual proof from other dads where their kids are older that it's real and it and it hurts. And I don't want to hurt, I don't want to look back and be like, man, I missed it. I took my eye off the ball. Because in my opinion, being a father is the most important thing that I can do while I'm on this planet, right? And I truly believe that, and I don't want to mess that up. So I'm not willing to.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Well, before we get too deep into that, because we we definitely need to, um, give us some context. What was your growing up like? So what essentially we're talking about what playbook you were given, right? Inadvertently or intentionally, which whatever, whichever one that that is. And then a little context of your family. What does John's family look like?

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Yeah, so growing up, you know, grew up uh like small town in the Midwest, uh, had cornfields around me, but like in a small little neighborhood. So like uh like a good balance of things. Um, two great parents, very loving. Um, they had good jobs, you know, we were probably upper middle class. So like, you know, all all my basic needs were met, and we would take some vacations here and there, nothing crazy. But like a a really, a really good and supported childhood was my upbringing. Um now, you mentioned like playbook and things that I inherited. Um, my dad was very professionally focused. Um, and he did well for himself in business and did well for our family. But if you talk to him today, you know, I just was talking about regret a couple minutes ago. He will tell you very openly and honestly that he carries a lot of regret with him today. Um, his job would require him to travel sometimes around the world. And so there was just a lot of time where he just simply wasn't there. Yeah. Um, you know, when he wasn't traveling, you know, the hours were kind of the traditional, you know, like eight to five kind of a deal. Um, but he uh he doesn't feel good about the amount of time that he spent away. So, you know, we learn from our parents. And like that's a that's that's kind of a sobering thing to tell people. Like, if we don't get active and like get really intentional about the type of dad that we want to be, more than likely we're just going to do what we saw from our parents. And so that's not to say like that it's necessarily good or bad. We just need to be okay with that. And if we're not okay with some of those things, then like let's make some of those changes. And so, you know, that, you know, work very hard, be very dedicated. Um, one of the things I remember him saying to me as a kid was, if you're going to do something, do it right. So and he would he would say that with like, I can see all of the loving intention behind those words, but I was able to see later in life that how I internalized that was don't fail. Yeah. And so for me, ensuring that I wouldn't fail meant don't take risks. Right. Like, unless you know exactly where that foot is going to land and that it's going to be on solid ground, don't take it. And that would be like with life decisions or like even like socially, I would analyze things like risk versus reward of like this comment that I want to say. And just a lot of times I would just kind of like stay small, be like, eh, it's not worth it. So that was something that I learned growing up, and it absolutely played out in my life and into my career.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

And so then you before we hit record where you were talking about that career prior to what you're doing now. How old are your kids now?

SPEAKER_03 13:21

My daughter is 13 and my son is nine.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Okay. When did that realization for you start? Where you're like, oh, I need to be more intentional about this. And not about so this is something interesting that you mentioned. Your dad said, if you're gonna do it right, or if you're gonna do anything, do it right. I say that all the time to my kids, right? Like anything, if we're doing anything, hey, we're gonna just do it right. And I don't ever mean it like, hey, don't fail at it. What I mean it as is do your best at it. Like, don't half-ass it, right? Don't go in there and just kind of do the thing and walk off. That's where I mean it. Um the interesting thing that I that that came to mind as you were mentioning it is the word thing. Anything you're doing, you might might as well do it right, or you know, do do it right if you're gonna do it at all. I but before you go into your answer to that question, I happen to feel like that word matters because career, um, our technical expertise, whatever that is, right? Uh, whatever school you went to, whatever uh profession you get it got into is the thing in that sentence. And when I look at parenting or being a father, not that we don't want to do it right, not that our parents, like you said, didn't they tell us don't do that right, but we don't put that in the thing, at least not up front, until we realize it.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah, right. Like I think that's an excellent way to talk about it. And for the career, you know, for me, that was getting the majority of my focus because I either I learned or I convinced myself, but it doesn't really matter how I got there. I believed that my value as a dad was directly connected to my ability to be a provider, and so if I was able to provide more, that means I'm a better dad. And I and I I wasn't aware that that's how I was going about life, but that's what my actions proved. And so when I started, like when I went through a series of really challenging moments in life, that's when I was able to get an understanding of like, okay, like had you asked me, like, what's the most important thing in life, I would have told you like family. Like it would have like a reflexive answer, right? A lot of people would like it's a common answer, and I'm glad that it is. But it's like, okay, I'm glad you say that. But like if you stopped and you asked somebody, like an unbiased person that was able to view your life, like let's say there's a camera in your house and they're recording all your all your actions for for a week, or they're not just in your house, they're following you around for your whole life. If they looked at that, uh, would they say that family is first based off of what you're actually doing? And if somebody did that for me a couple years ago, they would have said, absolutely not, your work is the priority.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah. It's it's interesting you say that too, because we I think we believe that family is first. And I know I was raised that way, or like your family comes first, period. Um, and so when we say that depending on what you tie that to, as you just mentioned, is how you measure success to that, right? Yes. So it's like I'm gonna go to work and kick ass at work. That means I am providing. That means my family comes first because I'm doing it for my family.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

That's right, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:21

The the the funny thing that sometimes happens that I I know I've experienced, I've been fully guilty of it, is then you turn that backwards because you're so focused on the thing, the success of whatever that job is, the the raises, the promotions, all the things. And you turn it backwards. Or maybe, maybe we don't. Maybe I just did. So you you did this thing, right? You you family comes first, I need to provide. If I'm providing, uh, then I'm doing well, then my family comes first. So that's like the the progression. And then you turn it backwards, you're like, you know, uh, you start blaming you, yeah, you start blaming the family for having to do this other thing and write the job. So I caught myself every so often with my kids, like they're like, Well, why do you have to go to work today? Because, like, for example, this coming week, they're on a spring spring break, and I'm like, I've got to go to work. Oh, why? And I not I didn't do it this time, but I'm saying this has happened before where they're like, Why are you going? Well, because you like to eat, don't you? You like your toys, don't you? Like, like it's their fault that I have to go do this thing, right? It's weird when you think about it that way, but it depends on your feeling, like you may be serious about that comment. Like, well, you like your stinking toys and you know, whatever else you like. Like, I gotta go make money to go do this because my family comes first. But that's like it's such a weird mindset to get into.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Yeah. Yeah, and so easy to see based on that interaction on how our kids would learn from us, like, oh, families first, which means job comes first because the family needs to eat. That's right. So it is really tricky. So, like, if that's what they experience from their their parents, you know, these people that they look up to, of course they're most likely going to do the same thing, right? When they become parents. And it's easy to see why that would be true. And then there's even some some neuroscience that that backs up um that that fact about what we do as parents of of why our kids just assume that that's how things are supposed to be done. And it's because like as the as a kid's brain is forming from the age of like, you know, zero until around six or seven, like basically everything they see just gets like hardwritten as code is like that is true. Yeah, it's like what they see is true, and it's written in there in their in their database, and like the the discerning part of their brain starts to like boot up around seven, like the prefrontal cortex. And that's when they can start to question some things. Yeah, and they can start to discern, like, well, is that really true? But like that just starts at seven, it's not fully up and running. So for those early years, like you know, like the phrase of more is caught than taught. Well, that's why. Like what they see, they're like, Well, well, you know, dad's doing it. Everything I see right now is basically true. So that's just what they'll end up doing.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

In the education world, they call that law of primacy, right? The first thing that you learn, so the first instructor you ever had, well, and this is even for adult learning, but the first instruction you had about X, whatever the thing is, is like the right way to do it. And then, like, all of a sudden, you get another instructor that's giving you a different angle, like, well, he's wrong. There's no way that that's happened to me because I learned this over here. And in you know, you just mentioned it's monkey see, monkey do early on, because that's exactly what it is. I especially with my first daughter, I caught myself saying a lot to her that I don't know that I always matched in my action, and really it's the action that she would take, yeah. Right, and I'm seeing that now at 14, where it's like, oh, that's me. Oh, yeah, that's me. Oh, that is absolutely me. Like, I see these things in um it's so ironic because then it's like then it's just like sometimes pisses you off, and it's not even her, it's like she's just showing you a mirror of what she has seen and learned from you. And again, I want to point out I have my wife here. We're we're we're a great team, um, but I just take responsibility for my actions. So, yes, they're seeing other people and and other important figures in their lives, but as fathers, I think we have a big, big role in that. Yeah, 100%. All right. So, as you were mentioning your your career, you you kind of monkey see a monkey do, right? You learned it from your from your dad inadvertently or or or Directly, what what have you? When did it come to you to they to know that you had to switch the script?

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Well, so I worked for this company, it's a great company. Um, I worked for them for about 18 years, and I I went to art school um for college, and I remember being in high school, and I was like, you know, I don't want to just do business. I wanted to go on a different path than my dad. Um, so I was like, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm creative, I love art class, I want to go to art school. And so I did, and I was studying, I was gonna be a computer uh animator. I was I had plans to move out to the West Coast. Uh life, you know, changed around a little bit, and I switched major to like doing graphic design. So I graduated from art school and got a job as a part-time graphic designer for this company. Um and again, I worked there for like 18 years. And, you know, at one point I was offered a promotion to join a different team within the company that really had nothing to do with being creative. Um, but like it was sort of like the the team that you wanted to be on. Lots of people wanted to be on that team. So there was like some ego in me where it's like, oh, I get to be on that. Like that was a draw. Like it sucks to admit that, but it's true, was true. Um, and then there was more money that came along with it. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna be a better provider. More I provide, the better dad I am. So yes, like I'll do that. And so then a couple more promotions after that, and I wake up and I'm the vice president of IT, and then another project management team. And so I'd kind of come up through this project management team, so I knew that well, but I knew nothing about IT. But I was put in that position to be running the IT team because they needed me to manage the transition. The a longtime veteran that had been with the company for like 30 years was going to retire. And he basically built the IT team. So they needed somebody to help manage this transition to hire a new person, get them trained. It was going to be like a 12-month process. And they just they trusted me to handle that transition because it was so important. So here I am. I'm in IT. I decided that being in IT is basically being a professional warrior because you have to constantly be looking for threats. Like you're always on and you're trying to find problems before they show up. And you need to have a solution for that problem before it shows up because like you have to act fast, because literally, like the company could be like halted in its tracks. And this is a big company. There's over 600 people that work for this company. Um, and we covered like two-thirds of the state of Ohio. Um, so like really, um, I'm not saying that like the company's success was on my shoulders, but I felt like it was a lot. So tons of stress and anxiety. I I've always been a generally, you know, happy person, and that's always been true. But when my stress and my anxiety were as severe as they were, um, like they were right underneath the surface. And so this exterior was happy, go lucky, but then like the moment that there was some conflict or something, then this like big oversized reaction would come up. And like it could just be a kid doing something that's age appropriate. And so there was there were instances of that. I could see that I wasn't being, you know, the husband that I wanted to be for my wife. And I just I didn't, you know, I I went on anxiety medication. I had a panic attack. Like there were these series of events where it's like, like, what is what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

And like, so I'm going through all this suffering. And then I'm like, well, I'm making more money than I thought I'd ever make. I'm going on these like cool trips with like the chairman of the company. Like, I've got all these things, I'm getting these perks and whatever. I'm like, aren't I supposed to be really happy? Like, I've been working my whole life for these things. But you you've made it.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Yeah. I'm like, oh, this is supposed to be amazing, right? And then I'm like, meanwhile, I'm struggling more internally than I ever have in my whole life. So because that that gap of what I thought it would feel like, and then like my actual experience, because that gap was so extreme, it gave me or it forced me to assess like the choices that I was making, and did I want to continue going down this path? And so because that gap was so big, like or in order for it to be so big, it means that the suffering had to be so great.

unknown 26:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

So it's like, and I'm so in a weird way, I'm thankful that the pain was as intense as it was. Because if it wasn't, it would have been really easy for me to stay on that track because I, you know, I was a big security guy, and I could have easily retired at this company. Um, and like the path was there. Yeah. And I needed to reevaluate if that is truly how I wanted to continue to live my life. And turns out I wasn't okay with that. Um, and so I made a series of decisions and I started working with a life coach, and um, I ended up leaving that company um on good terms and went and got certified as a life coach myself uh because I wanted to help and support people. Because a life coach literally helped me change how I see and experience my life. And I was like, I I love being in that space, it feels good to be in that space. I want to support other people. Um, so we're gonna do it. And here we are.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

You were on your way to get the proverbial gold watch. You know, that that I can't remember when that uh phrase started, but it was definitely back in the day. And I don't know if I heard this anywhere, if I made it up in my brain, but I've always imagined the that watch that that this cold watch at the end of whatever your time is at a company. It's like, as you mentioned, it's that feeling of like, yeah, I got there, I did it. And then you look at the watch and you're like, where has the time gone? Like the time is now gone, and that watch is so bright because that's what I wanted, that it actually tells me you've wasted a lot of time where it matters. That's right. And for you to be able to get to that point to say, Nope, that's that's not, I don't want that shiny watch. I want something else that is that is very intentional and obviously engaged, you know, it kind of moving towards that direction that you're that of what you're doing now. And you started, did you start the engaged uh father project right off the bat?

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Or no, so I went this is a great question. Um, so I went through the life coaching certification process, which was like really intense. It was like a nine-month process. Oh wow, like really deep and transformational work that you kind of do on yourself, and like then they teach you how to help other people do the same thing. So went through that process, and and once I got certified, I was calling myself a success coach. And and I I was able to go out and attract clients, and they were even, you know, they would would run through a 12-week program and then they would resign. So like it was working, and and that that work was about helping people not defer happiness until later in life, right? Like, don't do all these things, don't suffer now because at this finish line of retirement, that then you're going to be happy, right? That's like it's the gold watch thing. So that's what I wanted to do. And I I was doing it. And there was a friend of mine, um, a peer that um went through the certification process with me. Her name's Jenny. And I get this email from Jenny, and she's a dear friend, and she said, Hey, I was vacuuming today and I had an interesting thought for you. Do you want to hear what it is? I was like, From you? Of course. Okay. So we schedule a call and we talk, and she goes, John, throughout all of our time of going through this whole certification process and hearing you talk about why you wanted to better yourself as a human being, like your reason why was for your kids. And it kept coming up. She's like, I don't know if you realize that, but I heard you say that so many times. Like that was the through line of why you were making these changes. And she's like, I think you would be really good at helping other dads, you know, make that change for themselves. I was like, Well, that's really cool. And she's like, Oh, and by the way, I've got a background in being an educator and creating courses. She's like, I could help you kind of work through that. And so we scheduled a call, another call, and we kind of built out a loose framework. And I was like, okay, this is cool. It was going to be group coaching, and it was going to be a back burner thing because I was going down this other path. And it's like, I was working with people one-on-one. And it's like, okay, when I want to do a group thing, we can, I can, I already have something there that's kind of framed out. And it was, I don't know, maybe 10 days later, I was doing something on my computer, and it was like just this like a light bulb moment, like this extreme burst of clarity. And I was like, that's the thing. Like in in an instant. And then I just I put 100% of my focus onto that. And that's where the Engaged Father project was born. And I mean, I I tell people that it's the program that I needed before I knew that I needed it, right? When I was really struggling, like that's who this program was created for. And and I do want to touch on, I want to clear something up. Like when I was saying earlier about the changes that I made and inside my career and going down another path, I hope people don't hear that and think, well, like I have my job. I can't just quit and like go get certified as a life coach because it's going to be better for my kids. I'm not telling people that you need to change your career for your kids. But I do think it is priceless for you to stop and just assess where your energy is going. I believe that like we only have so much energetic capacity in a day, right? Like, let's just say like it's a hundred units of energy, like just to make it for an easy conversation. If you're honest with with yourself and you kind of look at an average day about where that energy is going to like make a pie chart, if if the percentage of it that is being applied to work, whether it's like your physical time when you're at a job or when you're home and you're still mentally thinking about things and troubleshooting, like if that percentage is, if it makes you uncomfortable, then great. Like I'm glad you have that awareness now. Like, because now you can do something about it. Because I didn't know that I was doing it, but the the energetic units that I had within a given day, uh, I haven't stopped to like articulate what the percentage was or to try to come up with it, but it was it was way too high. Way too high. And once I saw that, then I was able to make the change that was that was appropriate for me.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

We talked a little bit about this in one of um one of the sessions in the engaged father group. And it's the the question really is where are you emptying your tank? And what does your tank look like when you're getting home to give it to your family, whatever is left, right? And and I want to be very clear about that. The context of each individual's life, work, family, all the things, it it matters. And um, I remember watching something by Simon Simon Sinek mentioning that there's a study that shows that it's quality rather than quantity, particularly when you're looking at what you're giving to the family, what you're giving to your kids. And the problem that you just mentioned, I think hits a lot of us is that I may leave work at three, but depending on how invested in work I am, and and I say that cautiously, like I'm not telling people to suck at their work and come home and be the best. Like, we have to be good at work to make money to come home and and do the thing. Like, I that's not what I'm saying. But if you leave work at three and you're so invested there that you're not actually at home, the quality of that time is not going to be very good. No, and so to me, that's emptying the tank out over there and leaving very little for that.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Can I say something? Can I interject something really quick, Oscar?

unknown 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Because you're you brought something up, and I don't want it to lose my mind. Um, or escape my mind. You talked about the the quality versus the quantity. So in that moment, if we're not getting high quality time with our kids, like it's a missed opportunity, right? We already talked about it. Time is so precious. So like we're missing an opportunity to do something really meaningful. So there's that. But the other thing is, like, our kids, they feel that. Like they know when you're mentally not there. If you're mentally checked out and you're and you're thinking about that email that you want to write or this problem that you might have tomorrow at work, they feel it. And so what if you like if you had to put a caption on that moment, what are you telling your kids? You're not saying anything, but what are your actions telling them? And I would say it's telling them that even when I'm with you kids, work is more important sometimes. Yeah, at least in that moment it is. I agree. So I just think that's a I think that's a really powerful thing, and I and I wanted to bring that up. So I'm sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

No, no, it's it's this is your show right now. This is exactly what we're talking about. It's I have had that conversation, particularly with my middle, my middle girl. She has told me those things. Like, hey, um, I was trying to tell you this, but you were on your phone. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

How right?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

I was trying to tell you this, but then you started talking to my sister. Oh. Uh interrupted that, right? And sure, that wasn't work related, but it's the it's the feeling that she gets when that connection is lost. For whatever reason, right? It tends to be many times our work environment for many of us. You're at work, your brain stays at work, you got a big deadline, you got a big project. For me, particularly, I'm in the military, I have you know brothers and sisters out deployed, like I'm thinking of the people that I want to take care of, and and I'm I'm home, but sometimes I'm not, right? Or they'll catch me just like zoning off. And I I've I've said this many times before. I I'm like a A to B person. Like, if we're having a conversation, just give me the information I'm asking for, right? Like it's it's it's just easier for me, particularly at work. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen with with little boys, because I I just don't have the context, but I can tell you, if you have daughters, that doesn't work, yeah, right? Like true a conversation that I think should take two minutes may most likely will take five minutes because there's this roundabout way that they're getting to whatever they're thinking and that they're thinking out loud. Um, and so I'll catch myself listening, right? Because I want to be the listener, yeah, but not actually listening. And at the end of it, they're like almost giving me the quiz. And I and I because they know. They know, they see it, right? They know, like he's not. They feel it, yeah, they see it and they feel it. That's right. It's that's such an important thing, and I think what you're doing with the group of men discussing these issues is really important. And additionally, what you're doing, not necessarily uh in that group, but what you're doing with your work and taking it and putting it on social media and putting reminders out, putting in uh I say content, but yeah, content that makes us rethink those things is really crucial. And I'll tell you one particular reason why. And this is something I found more and more as I sit in front of people and and and have these conversations. Many of us will not go ask for the help. We may go look for the help, right? But we won't ask for it. Yeah, and what you're doing is putting the help out there, saving someone's ego line, right? Because they don't have to go and call you, they don't have to go say, hey, I need help. But they're like, I kind of heard this one dude. Let me let me go back over here and see what he's got to say, because I I kind of felt that, right? Yeah, you're putting that line out there for someone to help themselves, and I think that is at least again, in my view, as I've been blessed to do this. Um, this this transformational thing that's the that I call the podcast that I didn't really like at first. It's that I want to help, even if you don't want to ask me for it. Yeah, right. Let me give you the issues I'm having because I'm I'm at the trench and I say this all the time. I'm in the trench, not in the pulpit. Like I'm not here to tell you how to parent, to tell you how to be a father. I'm here to tell you, hey, this is what I'm doing. This one worked, this one didn't work, right? Um, and I think you can attest to that. Like I gone on on a video with the guys in your group and said, Hey, this one's not working. I'm not hitting the mark here, right? Um, and it's in an effort to push that out in hopes that some dude will pick it up, even if he doesn't want to ask for the help, and use it and help them be present, help them be engaged in that moment. That's right. Because it is hard.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

And as guys, um, we're not very good about being vulnerable. Um, I don't think it's like any mystery as to why. Like, if you look at um, I don't know, like movies and things that we see growing up of like what the male, you know, the male hero looks like, you know, they're they're strong and tough and take action, and they're not like talking about their feelings, or like they don't admit like, hey, this is really hard, or like something was so hard that like I started crying. Like that's that just doesn't get talked about. Um women tend to be, they tend to handle that quality of vulnerability much differently than men do, based on my experience. Um, and so like if you want to trace that back to like I don't know, the caveman days where like if you were weak that somebody might take your food, which means you starve and your family dies, like you can see like maybe where it came from, but like things have changed and it doesn't have to be that way anymore. So there's so much power that comes along with taking our armor off. And that's one of the things that I love about doing this work in a community space because it's really reassuring to hear other people talk and have honest conversations to say, like, I'm there's times where I'm struggling, or there's times where I really question if I'm doing this right, or the hard moments of conflict are really hard and they're really taking a toll on me. I'm not trying to say like that's happening across the board for every family, but it's happening for a lot. Like, parenting's not easy. And so, like, I I love just like you, I love putting something out there for people, putting the line in the water to say, like, hey, this is this is here, if it's the right time. Like, cool. You got other people that understand this and they're willing to talk about it openly, and like there's some magic that happens when we do that.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Absolutely. Tell me a little bit about what you've learned in your work, like what are the what what are some major things that stand out to you as you've been able to work with men, whether it's in the group or individually, that that either you've noticed are kind of repeating um issues or or difficulties, we'll say. And also maybe some successes that you've seen as you have done this work.

SPEAKER_03 43:59

Yeah. I mean, I think the challenges, you know, it's handling the tough moments in a in a graceful way, I think is really common, right? Like, you know, if you take, if you got a family of four people, like there's going to be challenging moments. You have four unique people that at times might want different things. Not everything's going to be smooth. And so I know for me, something that's really hard that I still struggle with is like I want the time with my family means so much to me that I want it to be excellent quality time. Yeah. But when you've got two young kids, there there are going to be times, there's going to be fights and arguments, or you might see one kid like where they're actively going out of their way to like poke and pick at another one. It's just like, oh man, like, hey, we have this time and it's so precious, so precious, and it means everything to me. So my desire, my expectation, my hope for this time to be great sometimes gets in my own way. Yes. Because like when they start doing age-appropriate things, like if I step back and I'm honest with myself, like, how else are kids supposed to learn like social interactions and what happens like when you poke at somebody? Like they have to experience these things. So like they're doing things that will actually help them later on in life, learning how to resolve conflict. So if my desire is to like not have conflict when it happens, then like then I'm now showing up with different energy that doesn't help. Like showing up with this intense energy and just um hoping and asking for kids to like change very quickly in the moment when they don't have the emotional skills and the tactic tactics to be able to do that. Now all of a sudden my desire for things to be great is working totally against me. Yeah. So like that's because of doing this work, um, I'm able to see like kind of behind the curtain on what's actually happening. And like once I see how the pieces fit together, then I'm able to step back and be like, okay, yes, you want it to be great, but maybe it just means you have to do X, Y, and Z to let this situation go the way that it needs to go. And maybe there'll be a resolution that works, or maybe it won't. It can just be an experiment, right? We don't we're not being graded in terms of making every decision like properly, or like always giving the right answer. But when I'm able to take a step back and see that my in this example, that my desire or my intention for this time to be nothing but excellent, that it works against me. Now I have more information. And now I can make different decisions. And I've been able to do that. And other dads have been able to do the same in their life, and it and it makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

It really does. Yeah, I see that as a unsolved problem that puts dads in the back burner. And what I mean by that is you might have, and I truly believe there's most dads out there trying to you. I think we mentioned this before we started. Most dads are trying to be good dads.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Right. When you put that kind of pressure, we'll say, to say, all right, like this time is family time, it's we're gonna have a great time, and we're really gonna connect, right? And you have like this view of what that looks like. So you planned it. You use the word planning. I'm planning this, this is important, and so you do that, it doesn't go that well without the maybe the outlet or the community or the ability to talk through that and think through that, like you're talking about. I see it like as a road to then start to stop planning because it's better not to plan because you if you plan it and it doesn't go the way you wanted it, it pisses you off, and then the emotional outburst comes out, which is the opposite of what you wanted. Like it's just like this this vicious thing. So then you start seeing that's just kind of fall in the back, like they're just like, all right, I'll just um just tell me what to do, where to go, um, what we need, and I'm just here because if I don't plan, right, then there's nothing to mess up. So I think it's it's really unintentionally we're starting to disengage in that manner because of those situations that you're just talking about. Whereas if you have a community where you can this is where I appreciate your community, it's like I can go in there and be like, here's a thought for the day, this is what's going on, this is what I did, this is what they did, this is how I reacted. And all of a sudden, you've got dudes are like, Oh bro, I just went through that yesterday. Check this out, this is what I did, and all of a sudden, what I've noticed, and again, I I I have this this platform that I allows me to learn. Like, as soon as you and I shut the computer off, I'm gonna take something that I learned today and I'm gonna go implement. So it's like very quick, right? Yeah, so that's nice, but but other men can do it too, right? Meaning they can get into your community, they can listen to what you're doing, learn it, and go implement. And I think as those those other tools come into the the playbook, it allows us to slow things down, as you're mentioning, to then take a breath before reacting and saying, Oh, I see what's happening. Okay, yeah, let's just let's just uh mediate or let this go, let them resolve. Um, let me step away for a second to get some water while this takes like it it allows you to it really feels like I don't know what movie it was, but like when someone just really learned it might have been um might have been The Matrix, I can't remember, but everything kind of slows down, and then like you can actually take the shots as they're coming, um you know, weave and dodge as you need, and yes, before you know it, it's like oh we're still good. All right, it didn't go as planned, but we still got what we needed out of it, right? Absolutely, it's a hard thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Yes, it's challenging. Yeah, um, but I can say that with practice, it gets easier. And like everything that you just described to me, I would label that as like perspective, being able to look at the same thing, but from a different angle, from a different perspective, and to be able to see how things are operating, to see how we got there, to put ourselves in our kids' shoes about like, okay, like what is their experience? I was I was talking with a dad yesterday, and he was talking about how challenging it is when his kid doesn't listen. Like, hey, you know, turn off the TV because we're gonna go play outside. So, like that dad, like wants to be engaged, like, hey, let's go play outside, you know, stop watching YouTube. And like they say it once and like action doesn't happen. And then like they say it a second time and the kid's still watching YouTube, and then like a third time, like then frustration interrupts. Like, right, you know, they didn't say, but like, how funny would it be? Like, damn it, I said we're going outside to have good quality time together. So, like, come out here and have fun with me right now. Like, so and he I said, All right, so get it while that's why that would be frustrating. Because then we we we dug into it a little bit, and like respect for him is something that he values a lot personally, and so he wants respect. And and he also he arrived at the conclusion himself that he gives a shorter leash with his kid because his wife gives a longer leash, and he values respect for himself and for his wife, and so he gives a shorter leash to make sure that his wife doesn't get taken advantage of. And so, like, he was able to see all these like inner workings, and then it's you look at you put yourself in the perspective of the kid who's nine years old, and they're watching their favorite YouTube show, and they're like, This is great, this is great. And then you have this person that goes, Hey, stop doing the thing that you are really enjoying a while. And you're like, Okay, this is great, this is great. And so, like, then it's like, well, oh yeah, like I guess that makes sense why they're not just dropping everything that they're doing to listen to me because they're really enjoying the thing that they're doing. And they're nine. So they like they have this little mushy brain that hasn't fully formed yet. So when it doesn't have to be like we we are internalizing it as just like a total sign of disrespect. And like for some people, it's like I will not tolerate disrespect. So anything that sort of toes that line, like then you get like you know, the silverback gorilla dad, yeah, where it's like, no, not have and like then your presence is changing. And again, this whole thing with started, like, let's go get some quality time in the backyard, like let's go play kickball or whatever. So, like, once you're able to see how things are actually working, yeah, it's like you just have so much more information to make different decisions in the moment. And for me, like that's what it's that's what it's all about. Um, there is so much opportunity. If if you only took value in making better and aligned decisions during moments of conflict with your family, if you only got your head around that and made significant improvement there, I think the reward is massive.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

And that's part of it. And then there's like the other part where it's like being really intentional with your actions because you want to create a moment with your kid or you want to give them a feeling that you think is important. Like I want my kids to feel like they are really like seen and valued as a member of this family. So, like, I know I want them to feel that way. So, like, what could I do that would give them an opportunity to feel that way? And you can start like you've got a target on where you want to go. So now it's just like, how do I want to get there? So, like, there's two different sides, like when things are calm and you can plan, and then when things are tense and like you're in this reactive mode. But if you only were going to work on that, on that tense and conflict side, like there's just so much, there's so much benefit to doing that alone.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Absolutely. Man, we we could sit here and I've got like three, four other things, topics that could probably take us three or four other hours.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

So I know, man.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

I'm gonna I'm gonna put you on a hook maybe for for another one. In the meantime, tell us a little bit about your work, where people can find you, where they can find the community, and yeah, just leave us with a few last words for for dads out there. You got it. Dads.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

Being a dad is hard, and it's okay for it to feel hard. It's okay, guys. So just know you're not alone, right? It may feel like you're doing it alone sometimes, but you're not. Um The Engage Father Project. Uh, there's an online community platform called School. It's S-K-O-O-L. If you go there and you search for the Engage Father Project, it's free to join. It's a private community, but it's free to join. And there's about 50 dads in there right now that have all raised their hand to say, this work is too important for me to just try to figure it out on my own. I know there's value in learning from other people. Like maybe their kids are older and they've walked this path and they can help me get some of that valuable perspective, or just some accountability of being around other dads that you will start to like enjoy being around them and you start to build this connection. And now there's like some accountability where it's like, okay, like I care about these guys. Like, I don't want to let them down. I said I was gonna do this daily challenge thing. I said, like, I'm gonna set aside 15 minutes of one-on-one time with my kids. So, like, I I need I want to do it. I want to be able at the end of the day to jump back in there and say, like, hey guys, I did it. And like, check out this cool thing that happened. That's what's going on inside this community. So if that sounds like something that's of value to you, then then join the community. It's there. Um, if that's not what you want to do, and you just want to find me on social media, on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, it's at the Engaged Father Project. And I started just earlier this week of doing these daily engaged father challenges and people like the the reaction and the response to it has been massive. And it's just small little things that you can do each day. Uh so you can you can join me on on those social media channels and start to do that. And then if you want to like just do an absolute cannonball into the deep end, and you're like, I don't want this to be self-led, I want it to be like structured and intensive and scheduled. I have the eight-week program and we can do that one-on-one. You could do it as part of a group. Um, but that's like that's an accelerator, right? That's a turbo booster to like get these results in in a shorter period of time. So like there really is sort of an option for everybody. Um, so check it out. Like just whatever feels the most appropriate to you, come take a look. And maybe it's a fit, and maybe you end up changing the way that you feel about yourself as a dad. And maybe you help your kids feel the way that you know you want them to feel about you as a father. And uh don't leave it to chance.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

Like that, man. And I can tell you guys, uh, attesting to it, uh I'm part of the group on school. It's it's been amazing. So uh I would definitely encourage everybody to go there, and we'll have those links at the bottom of the show notes for everybody to get there real quick. Um, in the meantime, you can reach John uh on social media. Um, but know that the community's out there, know that we are all trying to do our best, and know that as John mentioned, and I will reiterate, it is not an easy job, and we don't have to do it alone. So, guys, send this to someone who you know can use the information, you know, can use the help and let them know there's communities out there, just like the daughter podcasts, the daughter community, the engaged father project. It's we're all we're out here to try to make each other better. And it only happens if you're willing to go find the information. You might not be willing to ask for the help, but at least be willing to go find the information. Until next time, thank you guys all for your help, for your support, and for your ears and your eyes. We'll see you all later.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

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