Why Fatherhood Should Expand Your Purpose, Not Shrink It w/ Chris Avery

Becoming a father isn't the reason to stop chasing hard things…

It's a the reason to dream bigger!

In this episode, Oscar sits down with a fellow father, Chris Avery, preparing for an incredible challenge: running 31 miles every day for 365 days around the perimeter of America.

But the real conversation goes deeper than the miles.

This episode explores how fatherhood reshapes a man’s sense of purpose, why our kids are always watching what we pursue, and how doing hard things becomes one of the greatest gifts we can model for our daughters.

A conversation about resilience, discipline, presence, and why your mission as a father should grow—not shrink—after kids. 

🎧 Dad challenge:
What’s one thing you stopped pursuing that your kids need to see you go after again?

Chris on Instagram

Chris Runs America

Donate to the Run Around America

00:00 Hardest Parts of Fatherhood

01:03 Podcast Intro and Guest

02:11 Chris Avery Background

02:42 Sobriety and New Life

03:58 Marriage and Kids

04:55 CD Player Nostalgia

05:35 Mortality After Kids

08:03 Birth Trauma and NICU

11:44 Being Present as Dads

14:46 Bedtime Lessons Learned

17:10 COVID Wake Up Call

20:06 Slow Down and Find Joy

25:23 Genius Brain Curiosity

27:48 Slowing Down to Connect

28:18 Puzzles as Presence Practice

31:19 Time Is How Kids Feel Love

32:41 One on One Moments

33:52 The 50K Every Day Plan

35:54 Pain Purpose and Perseverance

41:59 Family in the Journey

46:35 Race Not Pace Mindset

48:01 Support Sponsors and Links

51:24 Live for Your Family

53:07 Closing Thanks and Newsletter

Guest Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the guests. They do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the host, any organizations, companies, or institutions mentioned, or corporate entities represented by the host.

Our aim is to provide a platform for diverse perspectives and open dialogue. While we strive for accuracy and balance, it's important to recognize that opinions may vary. We encourage critical thinking and further exploration of the topics discussed.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:46

For me, the hardest part about being a father are are I think are two things. One is there's just there's so much confusion in the world of what a man should look like, like what we identify as and who we really are. And then the second thing is just how deeply you feel about these kids. I just never expected that before. I had kids to feel this deep about them. And so that really um is confronting. We were in the relationship for several years. I was like, I don't even care if we ever have kids. And then, you know, it was like a big debate that night, and I will say turned into a nice argument. We aren't the person that's like, we know we're having a girl. We on both of our kids, we wait until they come out and I get to announce, like, hey, it's a boy or it's a girl. And uh, so when we had the little girl came out, it was just it was a game changer, man. It literally flipped my switch, changed my heart instantly. And I just never expected that with kids. It's been uh it's been a steady incline of growth, you know, and uh understanding.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Welcome to the daughter podcast, where fathers become everyday heroes in their daughters' lives. Grow, evolve, and lead with love. Here's your host, Oscar Pinna.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Daughter Podcast. Oscar here, your fellow growing girl dad, today with another fellow growing girl dad, Chris Avery, who's gonna talk to us not only about being a father and how that's changed him, but also about what he is showing his children by the amazing feats that he's doing. And I'll let him get into that. Chris, brother, how are you today?

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Excellent, man. Thank you for having me on, Oscar. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Yeah, man, I'm I'm excited to talk. We we talked before, and I don't want to spoil it for everybody, but man, the conversation, you you left me like speechless, right? We were talking, I was like, you're doing what? And and why? Like anyway, so we're gonna get into all these things, but Chris, man, uh, before we do that, tell us a little bit about yourself, uh, introduce you, uh, your background, and what you're doing these days.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Yeah, of course, man. I'm I'm just I'm gonna be honest, I'm just an ordinary guy. I'm just trying to do something extraordinary because I want to impact the world. And I think, you know, all these men listening right now, even if it's just impacting our our kids, and that's the biggest world you're gonna impact. Uh, it's still incredible to look at what we're really truly capable of as men, you know, because we were we're really creep truly capable of something amazing. We're put here for it for a reason. Absolutely. So, you know, long story short, my background is uh grew up with a great family and then just made bad choices, you know, made a lot of bad choices when I was young. And uh luckily I did that. Luckily, I got into drugs and alcohol, and then that pushed me forward to really just feeling lost, having no idea who I was, you know. Speaking of the first question, like having no idea who I was as a man, as I as I was as a person, you know, and and feeling very uncertain about what that means for life. And then, you know, got got my late 20s and finally decided like I should probably get sober. Life would be better if I if I had a sober day, you know, in 17 years, it'd probably be a better life. So luckily got around good people and they started helping me really start to understand how to speak to myself and how to understand my neuropathways, how to reprogram myself, and started giving me a ton of good books back then because I'm old. They had CDs. There was a CD play, you know, thing. You had to, it was gas-powered and stuff, you know. But you would listen to these CDs. So I was listening to CDs, reading books, and you know, just year pass and years went on, and uh finally, man, just figured a few pieces, a few pieces of unlock and got around again. Those people led me to other good people, and then those people let some people led me to God, and you know, God and doing the personal development is really what changed my life. And then I met my wife, now wife, uh at the time, obviously girlfriend, and uh she we both lived in Phoenix, Arizona, and so she I was I'm sober, I'm doing well in life. We meet, she moves up here to Utah. Uh, she moves up here for school, I follow up here for love, and then uh we're off to the races, you know. We I move up here about five months after she moves up here, we we date, we f we fall in love, we get married, we have a couple little kids. So we got we have one little girl, like we've we you know, three, she's three, and then we have a little boy that's almost one. And uh that's really that's really what we've been doing, you know. And then just man, it having a family is a game changer. It changes your perspective on what's important in life, it changes like what really matters as a man, yeah, changes like how you see yourself and what you're doing as a man. Yeah, um, it really gives you clarity, and so that's really what we've been doing.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Wow. Uh, I want to go back real quick. For all you guys that don't know, the CD player was a pain in the ass. Because if you hit the if you hit a bump when you were walking with that thing, it skipped all the time. You remember that? Do you okay? So they re okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

So when they first came out, they had like no skip at like if you tapped it, literally, if you breathed on it wrong, it was skipping. And then they finally came out with some like I don't know, where it gave you two or three seconds of skip proof, and that was amazing. Yeah, I do remember that. Yeah, that's crazy, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

That was that was the sports edition. Yeah, yeah, it was a sports ed the yellow one, Sony sports edition.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

I loved it, bro. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah, man. Sorry, I had to had to put that out. That's it's it brought me right back when you said that. Um we were talking before, man, and you were you were discussing like the amazing, scary, and unexpected change that it was to receive your first kid. And like I I 100% uh feel that. I felt the same thing. And my um this just happened yesterday. We were uh we were watching oh gosh, I honestly can't remember what show we were watching. There was some TV was on, family were sitting around, and they said essentially what I've said many, many times, but my daughter was listening, and my daughter doesn't she doesn't know all the things that I'm doing here, right? Okay But they said something to the tune of like a man meets his mortality when he meets his children, right? And my daughter like stopped me and she hit pause and uh she's like hey is that true? And I was and I wasn't really listening. I think I was doing something with my other kid. And I said, What do you what are you asking me? Right, and um she said, Is it true what he said? And so she rewinded it, listened to it. I'm like 100% it's true. Yeah, I told her, I said, When I held you for the first time, that's when I feared not being here. I didn't fear death. I've never I just had never been afraid of it. I think it's just part of life. Yeah, but when I held her, I was like, dude, what if I'm not here tomorrow? Like, what if I'm not here five days from now? What if I'm not here five years from now? Like, how am I gonna protect her? Like, it was just the weirdest thing, dude. And I never even met this thing, right? She like came out in this bloody mess, yes, and all of a sudden she's like my girl. Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

It is an instant connection, though.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

It's insane.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

I like it.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

I questioned it. I told my wife, I'm like, why do I like her? I know how you like her. I mean, you literally waked her up and you know, popped her out. Like I did all of that. That's nine months and a bunch of work, and and you know, God bless you. Like, I couldn't do that, yeah. But I'm like, I can't, I don't understand for the life of me the feeling I feel towards her.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

For sure. It's uh I remember when so my wife was has wanted to attempt home births for our first two children, so she attempted them and they haven't uh panned out the way we hope. So we end up in the hospital, yeah. Uh which is devastating to her, but man, like the both births because they end in c sections, they've been quite traumatic, you know, just as far as especially, man. When you're uh when you're a man, you you're not like into birth, you you aren't like a woman where you're like, Man, we talk about having kids all the time. We're dudes, yeah. We're just like, cool, we'll have some kids eventually. You know, but then it actually happens, yeah, and the birthing process is far more traumatic and aggressive than I ever thought it was. Um, and it I feel far more grateful that kids exist now and that so many of them survive. Um, but man, when that like the little girl came out, it's I don't even it was instant too because like my my wife went in C-section, so she was uh past I guess they they had her drugged up, right? So she was um not like cognitive. And so when I was so I got to hold the baby for the first time, I was the first one like to hold her and receive her, and you know, I'm trying to make sure my wife's okay, but my daughter's okay. And then like soon it because it was a girl, because this uh and I can the the reason I'm comparing is because my boy had the all very similar but worse circumstances that he came into this world into, uh ends up in the NICU, but yet like I was concerned about my boy, but nothing like my little girl. Interesting, because there's just like I even said to my wife, when my little boy was born, I said to her, We were laying because we were lucky enough that she was in the hospital, we had an extra bed in her room so I could sleep there with her. And I said to her, I said, It's funny. Soon as my boy was born, I said, Oh, I'm gonna be hard on him compared to her. Just not even like no cog no, like no conscious processing of it, just instantly. I just felt like I'm gonna be harder on him. He's he's here to like thrive and crush in life, and she is there to be protected. And that was just instant, like biochemical reaction in my body, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Interesting, yeah. And your your son is is okay now.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Oh, yeah, yeah. So he ended up in the Nick U. He was there, I think, for four days, and uh, he just wasn't breathing when he came out. And you know, because of some of the tools they use, it looks like they're using car tools on your wife, and they're like, stretch it open more. You're like, I don't think you should. That looks too yeah, you have like organ sitting out on top of like I don't yeah, this is too much information, but and so you know, they got him and they're just yanking and trying, and they finally got him out and got him breathing. And oh wonderful little guy, though. But it makes you grateful for him when you see that, man. You go like, Oh wow, this is this is way more meaningful. This is this is real life, this is real game here.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Oh, for sure. Yeah, and it and it, dude. My my admiration for my wife and all three. I was like, my gosh. Like, you are a beast, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yeah, you're there's a there's a reason you're the woman and I'm the man because we wouldn't have any kids, yeah. Or we would have had one and done, you know, one and done together.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

The thing is too, because like my wife should be like, uh, she she said, Hey, I I I think I want another one. I'm like, you do realize what you did before. Like they wouldn't, uh you know, I couldn't have my phone to like video that part because it was full-blown surgery, yeah, right? And you and you you are willing to go do this again? Like, listen, I'm I just get all the fun until the baby's here. So for real, up to you, yeah. You know, uh but let me let me pull on that thread a little bit because you said something that I think I was also guilty of. We'll just say that word. I don't know if that's the right word, just bear with me here. Sure. But when before my first child, I was the same kind of mindset. My wife, my wife and I were together eight and a half, almost nine years before we had our first child.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

So it was like, yeah, okay, I guess this is this is what happens now. Like, this is time. It's time, you know, it's and we've always we've talked about having kids, but we were never ready. If you, you know, I if you you guys aren't watching, I'm putting air quotes because I don't know if you guys know, you're never ready for these crazy kids. Like it's it's just crazy. But I was like, yeah, I mean, this is kind of it's kind of time. One thing I've I've learned via the show, and I haven't been talking to other dads, is that not everybody's like that. Like you and I are are kind of vibing on that. But there's other dudes for many reasons, for for a bunch of different reasons, right? Like maybe they were having a hard time conceiving, maybe like they had other visions of of um having children or whatever, whatever it is, right? Um, but there was other dudes in the show that I've talked to, they're like, they conceptualized this whole thing. Oh, they were like thinking about it, right? Oh like they were like not just hey, I want to have a child, but like almost like and and I want to have a child that we can do this, and like that, like never like my brain never went that far.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Yeah, me neither, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, um, and I think it happens more often than not, at least maybe that's just my opinion. But I also found that to be refreshing. Like, dude, that's really cool that you had this foresight to like start planning these other things, almost seeing this futuristic look of what your family's gonna look like. I just knew it was me and my wife, and she's my ride or die, and we're just doing whatever. So if she wants something, that's what we're doing, right? Yeah, um, and I I don't regret being that way, it's just how I was wired, and and and that's how I'm here, right? Like that's just who I am. Um, I learned a lot since then. But there's times where I'm like, man, I kind of wish because of my first child and how I was, and essentially why I ended up starting the show, okay. Um, knowing that or realizing that I just I wasn't as present, I wasn't like locked in as a dad. Like I was kind of like almost like going through the motions, right? I sometimes wonder, what if I had been more uh purposeful about having my daughter? Right? And again, I don't fault myself, but I also in this learning process, I'm like, man, I think that would have been much different.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Yeah, man. So I will just share a little story to kind of relate to that. So um looking, so you know, one of my favorite quotes from Steve Jobs is you can't look forward and connect the dots, you can only look backwards and connect them.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

So, like, you know, like lessons and stuff learned. And so when my little girl was born, I loved the crap out of her. But like I didn't know what to do with her much besides like, hey, let me hold you while you sleep, and then you know, like mom kind of takes over from there, you know, and then eventually she ate some regular food. So I fed her a little bit more, but there was something called a nighttime routine, you know, and we didn't do that right away because we didn't know about sleep schedules and all the other stuff, but we learned, and then so about probably three months in, we started doing some sleep schedule, and so that means like you know, a sleep routine. She goes to bed at a certain time, we read certain books, and probably for about the first nine months of her life, like I missed those just because I didn't know. Like, I was like, Cool, you you just put her to bed and do your thing, you know. And I'd help occasionally try to put her to bed, but I was never like my brain was still like work, do this stuff, get stuff done. My brain was not like slow down, build a relationship with this little thing. Like, there is like a process, just like any other relationship where it's time and bonding, and so we're we're still very bonded together. But I I look back and I even say to my wife, especially with my little boy, I said, like, I'm not gonna miss those bed times because like now I because I eventually got the bed times with her, right? After about nine months, I jumped in fully and I they became one of my favorite parts of my day. And so therefore I go, like, oh, I'm never gonna miss those again. But because I didn't think about having a kid, uh, you know, a time besides, hey, as you said, it's just hey, this is a natural part of life, it's part of the cycle. You eventually have kids. Um, that was as far as I've thought about it. So, man, I I can totally relate to you. Had I thought about it more, it would have brought more value, especially right in the beginning. You know, like I loved her and so much, but I didn't know what to do besides love her and like keep her safe.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, yeah. You were doing what you thought you were supposed to do, right? Like I was just like, oh, and now I have to go to work harder, earn, make sure I'm earning enough money to provide. Yeah, doing the checklist items that that you know I knew to do, for sure, but not necessarily the other stuff. The the thing that I'll commend you on is you learn very quickly, brother. Like at nine months, you're like, oh, this is it. Yeah, it took me to my third kid. So my my five-year-old now, she was born during COVID, August. So it was essentially right after everything just shut down. Okay, right, and so I was forced to be home. I say forced, meaning I'm not going to work, right? I'm working, but I'm I'm at home. And I just it just dude, it just hit me. I'm like, oh man. Like I missed all of this with my first two. Because with my first, definitely my first one, my mindset with exactly what you're talking about, was all right, I just gotta I just gotta make sure I'm working good, I don't get fired, that I'm bringing in the money, that everything in the house is working, that they're getting heat, water, like you know what I'm saying? Like all the things. So I want to make sure that they're good. And coincidentally, at that time, it was just a very busy time in my military career, and I was I was gone a lot. So not only was I physically gone a lot, I mean, I missed over uh at one stretch, I missed over eight months of her life.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Jeez, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

But so I was gone physically, but then I remember now, like in hindsight, of course, right? When I was there, I was already thinking about the next mission. I was like, I gotta work, can I gotta do and part of that is because I wasn't truly, I didn't know what to do with her. Like, just like you said, like I'd be home, like, well, she's fed, she's changed, she just woke up. Why is she crying? Right. Like, what is going on? Like the checklist items are done. Like, what do you go? Yes, there you go, honey. That's exactly what I would do. Like, she must be hungry.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

You're up, me too.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah, right. And it was, you know, in hindsight, I look back, and it's so unfair because one thing I I wholeheartedly realize now is like not only is this child not getting the best of me or or the the real presence of me, but my wife is also not getting it, and she just made a human. So, like to to mentally check out sometimes what is so unfair to her, who not only is she's making human, she also doesn't know what she's doing because she we've never been parents, sure not, yeah, right? And and again, I just keep going back to the like she just made a human, dude. Like that changes people. Like that that's not that's not nothing, right? Yeah, and so it's I I always feel like almost a sense of like I wish I would have figured it out when you did. And this is not just with you, like with people that I talk to. I wish I would have uh been more purposeful about my child, you know, before my child got here. But it was more of like the that's just what okay, cool. Like, we'll just for me, it was like, all right, it's just something else that I'll have to figure out, and then we'll figure it out. Like that's it. But it's so much bigger than that.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

I mean, I mean, I will I will say the balance is so hard, you know, and trying to figure that out. Because the greatest gift I have is that I've worked, I work from home. So I've I've worked from home since they were born, right? I've been running since they were born, and I worked from home since they were born. And so I would, you know, I get to always go out and spend a little time with my kid here and there, and I think that's so valuable. And then like after the nine months, uh just she I will say almost I I screwed up in this where I went so far the opposite, where I'm just like, this little girl just consumed so much of everything I was doing that like I I dropped the ball in like business and stuff in in certain parts of it where I could have done better, you know? Yeah, but I I just was so enthralled with her after like from her nine months to two years. I mean, I still love the crap out of her, but I mean, just like you know, nine months to that two years, we were just doing so much of this stuff, and it's your first one, so you're seeing all these new things. And I said to my wife, having kids, like you don't remember your childhood. I don't remember my childhood. No, so the only childhood that you really get to remember are your kids. Yeah, it's crazy to you're living your childhood through their experience, really, because that's the only one you're gonna ever remember. Maybe your grandchildren, right? But like really this one is the biggest one where you get to go, like, oh wow, okay, kids do this. Oh, okay, like wow, she does this. Oh wow, she's figuring out this. Oh wow, she thinks this is so much fun because she's never done it before and she did now, she's done it 99 times, but she still thinks it's like the first time and loves it, you know, and you don't you never see that through your own eyes. Yeah. Like you see it in a sense through their eyes. And there's like, man, that's such a profound thing and such an amazing thing to experience. And I would suggest if you're any man listening to this and you have a a son or a daughter or both, man. When they're young, it really is time to like slow down a little bit more. Yeah. You don't have to, you don't have to drop everything that you're doing in life. You don't have to go crazy like I did. But there is a certain level of just they're meant to make you slow down.

unknown 23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

They're meant to really have you take a step back and go, like, all this stuff I take for granted or I don't think about, man, there's true like joy in it. And there's true like curiosity in them where you go like, I've seen grass, but like maybe let me lay on it and like put my face on it and put some in my mouth like they do and taste it and like get a different perspective, you know?

unknown 23:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

That's the that's the most I think one of the most beautiful things about having kids is just the slowing down, the realizing life isn't as serious as we're making it as men, and uh realize we can smile a little more. Right. Because they smile a ton at you and they they're what expecting you to smile back.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, so yeah, it's it's crazy to see almost like well, I often say that the kids are mirrors, and so like when when your child is there, the good and the bad is mirrored right back at you. And so being able to being able to be present enough as you're talking about to to learn from that, even to the level of like, I'm chewing grass with you. Let's see what this is. Yeah, let me let me do it first, though, make sure it's not gonna hurt you. Like I now joke with my daughters, all of them um have a good understanding, but I have like the dad tax shirt. Okay, like they're like, Why are you eating my food? Like, I'm making sure it's not poison, baby.

SPEAKER_04 24:45

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

But uh, but no, I mean it's in all seriousness, it is a way of really getting into their world, and not only is it helping you, as you just mentioned, but the connection that you're building with them, like you're their best friend at that point, man. Absolutely, right? And you're the connection you're building is huge, and it's something that you know you you can still make up, right? So, guys, like you're listening out there, you're like, I miss that. Trust me, I'm with you. I miss some of that, but it's the connection is still there, and the the purposefulness is still available for you to get to it. Absolutely. And when you do that, you'll just find like these weird, how do we say this? And you probably um more eloquently put it, but you'll find these weird little joys in the things that as adults you just don't think about.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

And I'm not talking about just with the little little ones. My five-year-old, although she finds joy in some crazy things, and and I found more joy with her again because I I think I was forced to be present in in that for me. I know COVID was a horrible time for people, but man, like that was such a blessing for me, right? Um, but even with my 10-year-old, she like the way that she is is these joys that brings that she brings around that. I'm just like, the hell. I was just in a bad mood a second ago, like thank you. You know, and she didn't realize she did that, but just the way that she they are. So um that presence, man, it you can't get those joys, you can't find those joys without purposely being present. That's the biggest thing, right? Allowing yourself to be like, yeah, let's go down to the grass level. F it. Like, yeah, what's the worst that could happen, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:27

For real. Like, let's go eat some, like, let's go taste some pine cones, you know? Like, let's go throw some rocks in a river and just let's eat some dirt and see what it tastes like. I mean, that that's all I care about is like just fun and different experiences. And I mean, really, the chat like one thing I learned, and I think it's just fun to know, is there's something called the genius brain. Have you ever heard that in little kids? Okay, so most kids are born, like, so the Albert Einstein quote is really true. So we're born to be geniuses, taught to be idiots, right? That's an Albert Einstein quote. But really, kids are born, that's the reason they taste everything, is because that's the way they can take sensory in at that time, and so they can't process like through like the way we can with this touch and much. And so they do like a little bit of touch, but they do a lot of taste, and that's the reason they put things in their mouth. And so when you tell kids to stop touching stuff when they stop tasting stuff, it's it's slowly um like taking the genius away, yeah, prunes down their brain, their neuropathway. So they go like, ooh, don't do that. But really, part of the genius brain is the taste and touch because it's it's the neurosensitivity and the way they're taking in life experience that way at that time. And so that as long for and it's not even just as a baby or a child, like a young child, as they get older, the more you can encourage them for like that curiosity, which just means their brain's open, so it's like an open loop and accepting more information opposed to as we get older, we're like, oh no, this is the way it is, this is the way I believe, and then we become a closed loop system. Yeah, so and and when I say that, the the the beautiful part of that is when you see that in your kids, slow down and add that into your own life, right? Because now you can open up your genus brain that's been shut down by everybody telling you to stop doing those things and go, like, man, I can just like lick a wall. And I know I keep saying lick stuff, and I don't know why I keep going back to lick stuff. I'm clearly into this, but but nonetheless, undo it at work. This modc is this audience change real quick. We're only talking to people that like to lick stuff. Um, but yeah, man, it's a it's an incredible experience because you get to see them like their brain fire, and then you get to also you know start to fire your brain differently.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah, no, absolutely. It it takes you back to just being a child for a minute, and and it's crazy to think about when you're an adult and you're heavy into all the things adulting takes like. Um, but this is not uh not research bound. I haven't found any anything because I haven't searched for it, but I'm a true believer that we minimize our own learning because of that, right? We don't we like you said we close the loop. Yep in allowing our kids to show us that the open loop is gonna be more beneficial than doing it is is key. And I'm I'm 100% guilty of that. I'm like just kind of stuck on like no no, this is I've gotta be productive. Boom, I've gotta do this. It's just like it it has to slow you down. And when I have to slow down, it's a frustrating thing for me because I'm so used to just going, going, going. Um my uh my 10-year-old loves puzzles, she loves puzzles and riddles, so that kind of makes sense. Like she she'll just come home one day and she'll tell you a riddle, and some of them are crazy easy, some of them are ridiculous. And I'm like, where did you hear this? I was just thinking about this in the car. I'm like, what? Okay, crazy, fine. But so she likes puzzles. When when we first started getting her puzzles, um, when they started to get intricate, so not like you know, the real easy puzzles, but the more intricate puzzles, she would ask me to puzzle with her, and I hated it. Oh like I like I would get anxious. You too, because I couldn't, like, I'm like, that should go there, but it doesn't. And like, where is this piece? And I and I was sure that we were missing a hundred pieces, like, like no, this puzzle didn't come complete, like, whatever. This is dumb. And I hated it, dude. I just recently had a medical procedure done that has had me at home. Like, I can't work out, I can't work right now. And my daughter had um, she got puzzles for Christmas, like 500 piece puzzles, not huge, but you know, enough. And um the at first when we started them, again, just like I would do two or three pieces, and I'm like, I just get anxious. No, I'm done. I'm gonna go do something else. And then by the end of this week, we're sitting there just puzzling, and I'm just like watching her puzzle, and I'm puzzling, not anxious, but it was almost like I had to allow myself to just do it, right? And not think of that whole I've got a hundred things that I should be doing, right? And then she'll but she'll do that. She'll be like, hey, just can we just keep doing this for five more minutes? And then all of a sudden it's five minutes is ten minutes, and I'm like, Oh, that was kind of cool. And we'll talk about random stuff. It's so weird, it's just not something that I would have placed as a connection point because I felt anxious about it, yeah. But now it's become a connection point. I love that with my 10-year-old, and she's the middle kid. So my wife and I often talk, like, are we giving her enough time? Because like a five-year-old takes a lot of time, yeah, just take it. Yeah, the oldest was we call her the first baby, so she takes the time. Like, are we giving her enough time? And so I found this I found getting out of my own head and just doing the puzzling is time. And it's time is what they need and what they want, real time, not you know fake time, like where I'm not actually present. And puzzling, if you guys haven't tried it, it will make you present. Oh, it will. Anxious first, but yeah, but it will eventually like sit you in a place and just let you focus on putting the pieces together, one piece at a time. Like it's sounds simple, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

I love that though, man. That that's that's a great metaphor for life, even the puzzle part. Um, I do one of my favorite or one of my favorite things that I remember hearing from somebody said on stage when I was in my early 20s, and he said, you know, how do how do people spell love? And he said, T-I-M-E, right? Yeah, and it is, it is about it is about time because that's what really shows that you're showing up for somebody. Like it's it's if you can send money or you can show up, show up. Like because people care more about you showing up because that really that's the meaningful thing to do, absolutely, and it's the harder thing to do to show up.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah, and I think that's how kids spell love is that time. Oh time spent together.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

I mean, I know it is like the other day. I'm walking out of my office, and I'm you know, my little girl's playing with Play-Doh, and there's so many times where she's like, Oh, can you play this with me? Can you play this with me? And you know, sometimes I'm busy, so I can't. Yeah, and uh that day I was just like, I don't even care, I don't even care how long I have, I don't care if it's 10 or 20 minutes, I'm just gonna sit down and play with Play Doh. And and you can just tell, like, that's so meaningful to her. Yeah, you know, it's crazy, right? It is, it is you feel it, yeah. And it's like in your mind, you go, like, it's 10 minutes of Play-Doh. Like, how stupid, how stupid, you know? But in but in reality, she just loves it. And it is like there's a different connection. You're both like working on the same thing, you're both getting your hands into it, you're both like interacting and commingling, and that's a far different relationship than even just hey, how you doing? You know, talking briefly. Like I took my little girl out on a date last night. And because it's just it's a funny I uh because me and my wife were talking, and I don't spend a lot of time just me with like her. I spend a lot of time with me, with her, with her mom, with her brother, or me and her and her brother, or you know, however that the duo works or the you know group gets together, the tribe carries around. But the truth of the matter is it's really fun to take the tribe members and do just like we want to take our wife on dates, like take your little girl on a date. It doesn't even have to be anything big. But like I remember one of my favorite memories is just we it was during the summer, uh like when she was, I think, was two. We just laid the on the grass, we just laid a blanket out and just laid in the sun and like we just laughed and giggled, and she was trying to like say I had a baby inside me, and so she'd act like she I was giving birth, you know, and we just like it's just light giggles and lighthearted, and every like everything around you slows down. I think that's the beautiful part. It's not just you slowing down with your with your like daughter, it's the whole world slowing. It feels like everything just slows down for you.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

It sure does, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, let's get into a little bit of what you're doing. Um you're a coach, um, but also what you're about to do. Because in talking about time, it is it is a huge um investment in time that you're gonna take your family on. But I want to get into a little bit of that. So first tell me about what you this is guys, this is what had me with my mouth like wide open. You said I'm gonna miss, I'm gonna mess up these numbers. You said it was 14 17 miles a day that you're running.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

So currently I'm running 17 miles a day. We're training to run 30 plus, so we'll run a 50k a day, which is 31.1 miles. We'll do that. So it's a 50k for 365. So every day of 2027, from January 1st to December 31st, we will run a 50k, which is 31.1 miles, and we will run around the perimeter of America. So RV, kids, tra you know, wife, kids, RV traveling around the perimeter of America and uh one step at a time, you know. And like we've been training for so we've been running for four years. So we started with a mile. So if it like to me, I looking back, I go, like, it doesn't seem impressive, but when you look at 17 miles, you go like, oh, that's a big number. But I just want to also encourage everybody, it also started so small, right? Like the year my little girl was born, a few months before she was born, I decided to start this January 2022. She's born in April, and uh, and it's been game on since. And even when my little boy was born, we figured out a way to do it. We haven't missed a day in over four years.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Bro, and talk about perseverance. We talked a little bit about this before, but guys, like he's running every single day for four years, and life is still lifing. Yep. Yeah, so tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Yeah, oh man, I'm I'm gonna be honest. If you're gonna if you're gonna go after a mission or a purpose like this, it's gonna be one of the most amazing experiences you'll ever have. It'll be one of the most painful experiences you'll ever have. It'll be one of the hardest experiences you'll ever have. Because that's the challenge, is life still life, as you said. So we we've had hernias, like where we need surgery. We've I've blown out my shoulder, slipping on ice, not even running, just carrying my little girl walking. But I blew out my shoulder, right? Like we had shin splints for almost a year straight. And the truth is you can decide if you're gonna quit because of the pain. And that's the easy way out. Because pain's temporary, right? But who you're becoming from it is a permanent thing that you carry around for the rest of your life. You'll know that. And your little kids will know that. See, because most of us, most men, especially listening to this, we are not afraid of failure. We're afraid of living a life of like quiet desperation, of not of like no meaning at the end. We get to the end, we're on our deathbed, and there's people around us, and we have and we all we do is look back with regret. And I don't and my parents told me when I was growing up, like, you can do anything. And I believe that. But I don't think they believe that. Because they didn't do anything. Because I know because we've had enough conversations now that I've gotten older, that they'd left a lot of things behind.

SPEAKER_04 38:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

And and to me, I want to like do this for for myself, for God, like to show people to show men and family members that because you have kids, it's not a reason to say I can't do something. When you have kids, it's a reason to say, Oh, I'm gonna do that thing. Because the truth of the matter is they're watching. But we and we all know this as men, we all know this, like they care more about what you do than what you tell them. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And and at the end of the day, they're not because of their age, they won't remember this. But it's someday when they get a little bit older and we can talk about it, they're gonna realize what we went through. And because this isn't the last thing we're gonna, like, this isn't the last big adventure we're gonna go through, they're gonna see it unfold even more times in front of them, right? But we'll be able to reference, like, we started with a mile. Yeah, because the truth is starts so small that it seems stupid for you not to do it, because then you do it. Because most of us, like most of it, we're not sitting around going, like, hey, I I don't really know what to do in my life. I need more information. Can somebody right? We just need more accountability and more action. Yeah, and so when when we do that, man, this run has just changed my it literally. I thought I was doing it to like run and do something big and impressive and show you know people what they're capable of and who God is. I never realized like I'd get so much about being a father from it. Like I never get so much resiliency, I never get so much like presentness, I never get so much calmness. Like, I remember when my little girl was young, I didn't, you know, I didn't know how to speak that soft. I I mean I had no idea how soft she would need to be spoken to, you know? And my tonality, and I as you guys can tell, I talk quickly. Like I just get I get revved up quick, even if it's not like out of anger, but just out of passion. But like she would get scared of like my tonality. But then I get to go run, right? And if I have a disagreement with my wife, I don't carry that around. I get to go run, I get to process it. I get to get more connected to God. Like I'm more connected to God, more present, and a better husband and father than I ever would have been had I not done this run. Like, if the run never goes around America, I still got so much value from it that it's worth every like worth every every pain, every struggle. And it is hard, man. I'm not like you know, you you your cash runs low and you're trying to grow the business, and you're then you you start growing the business, and that sucks more time, then you're like, how do the hell the heck do I keep running? Uh but I will say this just like when you have kids, the the best things in life are almost like this quick expansion or quick like stretch of who you are because it makes you grow so quickly, right? Like having a little kid, you go from no kid, and then in two seconds you have a kid. There is now a big transformation in your life. Yeah, just like these big runs and things like that, life happens, and then you realize, like, oh, I don't have to just worry about taking care of life. Like life naturally flows, yeah. But all I have to do is start to put some some rocks in the river. And maybe it's the run thing, right? Maybe it's like, how do I be a better dad thing? But like then the then the river starts to flow a little bit different, then you have a little bit more input, but the river's gonna flow, like you can't stop the river, yeah. So just realize like put the river, some put some rocks in, then make your river flow the way you want it to, and life becomes exponentially better, bigger, and just more expanded than you ever thought you could be.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Wow, what a good analogy. Uh, because you're right. Like the water's gonna keep moving, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? How do you how do you influence the water is really what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

That that is what it is, and and and you are the water, just if it's not if you're not picking that up. How do you influence yourself when you're when your wife's in the hospital for you know 24 hours giving birth and in labor? How do you get yourself out to do the run? Right? How if it's really understanding that adrenaline and cortisol are not your enemy, they're your friend. If you learn how to tell yourself and walk yourself through it, as soon as you fill that adrenaline or that cortisol, that fight or flight, that and and you know this better than I do, you're in the military, uh, right? Like literally, but like you get you slowly over these difficult things that you keep happening, these hurdles that you have to keep overcoming, it realigns. And then you go, like, ooh, adrenaline cortisol is here. That's a good thing because I'm gonna grow from this. And that's it's really what it's been, man, day in, day out. It's it's been a great challenge and it's been a the greatest transformation I've had in my life from just simply running.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah. Do you uh do you take your daughter out when you run? Like you have one of the little job uh jogging strollers, or whatever they're called.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Yeah, yeah. I I I somebody asked me this on another podcast. So I will say I should I want to do a better job of that. I'm just gonna be honest. I am not great about that. Do I take her out? Yes. Do I take her out enough? Not at all. Interesting. And I and I know I could do that more and incorporate that more, and it would make them more part of the journey too, which would be beneficial just for them, for their future, and and how we like funnel this through 2027, you know, in the final run.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, no, no judgment here. It's more like I started looking at that, and I mean the experience of being like I was I was with my dad when he was running 70 miles a day, and then all of a sudden, when we're running, you know the the uh what'd you say, 10k's, right? 10ks um every day for the perimeter, like that seems like 50k. Say again 50k.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Um that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Geez.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Um, I wish it was a 10k, bro. That'd be 6.4 miles. I'm like, man, this is here. Hold on, Iskars might be coach. It's only 10k, everybody. Yes, yeah. Where were you when I started this idea? Man, 10k would have been much easier.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

I'm just the voice uh voice of reason here, sir. I don't know how I got that number so bad. But just like you're it's gonna take 365 days, and your daughter's three now. Well, when you start, she'll be four. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

This year this year she's so she'll be four, so she'll almost be five, but yeah, she'll be four. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

So I mean, like that's kind of the stage where I I don't even know if this is accurate, because like my five-year-old has a bike and she now knows how to ride it, but I don't think she can keep up if I was running now. I'm not running 50k. That's not happening, but um, but if I'm running, like you know, I when I run with my wife, for example, we'll take her because the the pace is a little bit slower and we're working on different aspects of the run. Um, but if I'm running for training, I'm like, I if you fall over, like I'm gonna be over there and you're gonna be over here. Right, yeah. Um, and it it actually just happened not too long ago um right before my medical procedure. She went out and she uh she was just learning it and she couldn't figure out how to set the brake. You know how like when you pedal backwards and sets the brake, absolutely, and she just started going down the hill, and I'm over here, and I just hear her like daddy, and I'm like, press the brake. Because I there was no way I was gonna get this. Yeah, yeah, of course. Right? Like just press the brake, and I'm just like kind of closing my eyes, and my oldest daughter was able to grab her. They still fell, but it wasn't as bad. Anyway, either way, I'm just like, all right, like we can't do this if I'm doing this other thing. We can do this if I'm doing this other thing. Um, so no, no judgment. Like, I completely get that portion. Um, but I do see this in as you mentioned, it's not a one-time thing. Not that you're gonna run around the entire United States every year, but it's not a one-time thing. Like, this is such a connecting point, these kind of projects like this. Um, although this one's you know, way up in the uh in the level, but I just imagine, like, wouldn't it be cool to run with your daughter? Like, she ends up joining you in some of this, right? You're you got some gray, not right now, but later on, like you got some gray in the beard, and all of a sudden you're you're just trotting along with it. Like, those are the cool things that like with my oldest, she's done some things with me. I'm like, ah, that was kind of cool. I just never anticipated that that would be that um fulfilling.

unknown 46:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

That's what I'm saying. So like I'm looking forward, I'm like, dude, that'd be insane. Like you're running, you're running 17 miles for that day, and the driver's like, yeah, I'm gonna run with you. Like, like that just instantly like makes my heart go, yeah, for real. Like, yeah, let's do that. We'll go your pace.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

I don't even care. Like, I I agree, I I wouldn't care. Yeah, like do you know who do you know who James Iron Cowboy is?

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Um, I think did you mention I think you mentioned his maybe last time? Yeah, yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

So so he did 50 triathlons in 50 states in 50 days.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

And then he then he came back a few years later and just stayed in one location, but he did a hundred triathlons in a hundred days. Oh man, yeah, it's crazy, bro. Um, but when you watch his 50-50-50 documentary, yeah, his little girl runs like a 5k with him at the end of every day of the 50 days. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it's and then like I think his mom runs one with him too, and she's like overweight, so it's a big deal. But one thing I've learned, man, and I was running with somebody about six months ago, and we were talking about the run around America, and he's like, Man, like, are you just gonna try to, you know, go as fast as possible? And I said, No, man, you're missing the whole point of this. The point isn't the point isn't speed at all. I'm here for the race, not the pace. And I said, like, if there's a beautiful river, I want to show people that this doesn't have to look like a certain way. Like, if I want to sit down by the river and like, you know, pray and meditate, I'm gonna stop. And and if like, and I said to him, I plan that most often days, like, my family will come out and we'll just have like a little picnic, right? I'll take a little break, eat some food. So I am definitely with the alignment, and I and I think you are a great reminder of I can do better at that. Like, I can take her more out now, and I can also take her more out and include her more because it is it is the time, it's the putting man, it's my puzzle, right? It's me putting the puzzle pieces, and she's with because every time we've gone out, she gets excited. The only problem is I'm slow, and so she keeps going, Faster, Dad! Faster, you know. Like, geez, I'm trying to go faster. That's not how this works. You you push me. Um, you know, and I take her and my little boy even sometimes, and it's just it's fun to watch them interact, but she definitely loves every time we go out, and she has to bring her little stuffed animals and you know, get all bundled up when it's cold out and just enjoy a ride.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

So that's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Hey man, let us know how we can support you in this grand endeavor, brother. Like, I know it's not happening until you know the beginning of 27, but yeah, how do how can we support the mission?

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I mean, if if we're really getting down to it, I'm I'm looking for sponsors and I'm looking for people that want to come out and you know, because we're going to 38 states, that's how many states we'll hit. So if anybody's in a state and they want to collab, they want to come out and run with us, you know. Uh, I mean, there's a place where we're gonna we're gonna eventually connect with a charity and we'll be running for a charity. So donate money to the charity, you know. Yeah, um, we'll have several different resources. If you want to find us on social media right now, just to fall along and get to know my family and get to know me. Uh, there's Chrisruns America.com, Chris Runs America on Instagram, just Chris Avery. If you if you're looking for me and you can't find me, I'm the either the big dude with the white snow all over my beard or some other scene where I'm running with snow most likely on me.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yeah, because those are the ones we like to post, you know. Yeah, man. And we're gonna have all those links. Uh Chris Chris is gonna give me those. We'll have those for easy access for everybody to go find you. Yeah, um, I I don't like to um overpromise and under the liver. I'm saying, God willing, that I'm running with with Chris and Daughter Podcast will be there and we'll we'll figure something out. It's gonna we're gonna make it cool. So whoever wants to come out, it's gonna be great. Um more to come on that, obviously, uh, as Chris starts to plan all these things out and uh and get to the point. But um man, it's been great talking to you, dude.

SPEAKER_03 50:50

Like, Oscar.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

I would be remiss to say that I to not say that I think you're crazy. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. But crazy is good. I'm not it's not a it's not a negative remark.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

I wear is a badge of honor, man. I really like if people I've had very few people not like there's a there's a few group of people like, oh, that's awesome, or they've done something like that before. So like, oh cool, you know. But if people don't think it's crazy, again, we shot too low. I'll say that. Because like the part of it is like the part of it is I want to show people what a five-year plan looks like. Really, we started so small, one mile a day, and how we've gone, excuse me, how we've gotten to 30 miles, or I mean how we're gonna get to 30 miles a day, you know? Right. Because I want to I want people to see the experience.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Yeah, absolutely. And and again, I don't mean anything negative by that. Crazy, but extremely inspirational. I I think we we finished our conversation before this one, uh back a few weeks ago, and I left super inspired. We have such we have such potential on the things that we can do, and especially as fathers, we can't shy away from the hard stuff, right? And and also our kids can't be excuses, right? Yes, is is life gonna life? We get it. Yeah, uh, and I'm sure Chris, and I know I'm not saying, hey, go do you know 30 miles a day. But but understanding, at least for me, that you know, I work out now for my kids. Before, I could tell you there's been several times where I'm like, I can't work out because of my kids, but that's not that's not right, right? Like I work out for them because I want to be able to do the things that they need for me all the time. And doing hard things only teaches them that hard things are doable, and that's an impressive thing for them to learn, especially starting from such a young age.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

Absolutely not. Yeah, I think there's uh there's a video that I really love that I've seen on social media and I've seen different guys post it, but you know, the the little like voiceover over the whatever video the background is, it says most men say I'll die for my family.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

But very few ever say, Will I really live for my family? Yeah. And to me, man, if you're listening to this and you ask like how you can support me, if you guys are if you're purpose driven or you're you know uncertain or you're living in fear, or you're like, Man, I I can do this, I just need help and accountability. Like, message me, man. Because as Oscar said, it doesn't have to be 30 miles. That's not the point of this. The point is to find your purpose, to find alignment to that and go after with everything in your life, because you got one life to live, and your kids are watching. Your kids are watching, you use them as a reason not to do it, or they're seeing you go like, I can do this, and then they're gonna grow up and go like dad did this, I can do this too.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

So we get to choose what example we want to be because we're gonna be we get one way or the other. You get to either be an example of somebody that didn't do it or somebody that did do it, and that's your choice. And if you're on the choice of winning, me and Oscar, we're here to win with you.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Heck yeah, we are. Absolutely. Very well said, brother. Thanks. Well, man, I'm gonna get out of your uh beard hair. And I was gonna say, get out of your hair, but I don't want to spend no, I don't have any hair, bro.

SPEAKER_03 54:05

Yeah, it's all the beard here. If you if you're not watching, I have very little hair, but a lot of my faith, a little on my head. Yeah, it's aerodynamic, all right. Yeah, it is. That's that's the reason I did it, you know. I sacrifice, I sacrifice for this.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Completely understand it. Completely I'm not gonna do it, but completely understand it. No, man, it's seriously been a blast to have you on. Um the seat here is always open for you. Thanks. Um, if there's things that we wanna that you want, you know, burning in your heart to talk about, or if you want to talk about the upcoming run or whatever, man, this is this is your house. So uh I can't thank you enough for coming in, spending some time with us, and just giving us your your perspective and feedback of of being a dad, dude, and and then also doing these grand things. So again, thank you so much, brother.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Yeah, you're welcome, man. Grateful to be here and I appreciate it. Had fun.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

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