Uniquely You: Enneagram + Real Life
Welcome to Uniquely You: Enneagram + Real Life — a podcast that brings personality wisdom into everyday moments. Hosted by life and relationship coach Wendy Busby, each episode offers honest conversations, real-life stories, and practical tips for your everyday life. Whether you're new to the Enneagram or deep in your growth journey, this space invites you to explore who you are, how you relate, and what it means to live with more clarity, compassion, and confidence. Tune in, share with a friend, and keep becoming Uniquely You.
Uniquely You: Enneagram + Real Life
Passions and Virtues of the Enneagram with Wendy + Molly
Beneath the surface behaviors of each Enneagram type lies a profound emotional pattern the passion that influences how we see the world and react to life's challenges. These patterns operate largely unconsciously, steering our reactions and perceptions in ways we rarely notice. But within each of us also exists a virtue which is our authentic essence that emerges when we're grounded, present, and aligned.
This conversation offers profound insights for anyone who's ever wondered: "Why do I keep reacting this way?" or "What does growth actually look like for my type?" The journey from passion to virtue isn't about becoming someone else it's about remembering who you've been all along, beneath the layers of adaptation and protection.
Your virtue is already there intact, it's whole and waiting to be remembered. The work isn't about developing new skills but peeling back what obscures your authentic self. This dance between passion and virtue isn't linear it's a constant flow of awareness, growth, and sometimes returning to old patterns. But with each cycle, we gain more freedom to choose our response rather than being driven by unconscious emotional patterns.
Ready to discover what might be driving your reactions and how to access your innate virtue? Listen now and take the first step toward becoming more truly yourself.
Molly's Website: www.mollykkcoaching.com
Are you curious about what your Enneagram is?
Click here to buy the online Enneagram Test https://wendybusbycoaching.com/online-enneagram-test
For more Enneagram insights follow Wendy on Instagram @wendy_lifeandlove_coach
www.instagram.com/wendy_lifeandlove_coach/
Are you ready to take the first step?
Schedule a complimentary Discovery Session today!
https://book.squareup.com/appointments/9v7sg3737x3zza/location/PEAP86T00HS9P/services
Hey friends, welcome back to Uniquely you Enneagram and Real Life Podcast. I'm your host, Wendy Busby. Thank you for listening and I'm so glad that you're here. Well, today I'm here with my friend, Molly Knutson Keller, and we are going deeper, deeper into the heart of the Enneagram, and when I say heart, I mean the tender, real places where we often struggle, but this is also the place where transformation begins. So we're talking about the passions and virtues. These are the core themes that sit underneath the surface of each Enneagram type. These are the core themes that sit underneath the surface of each Enneagram type. They're not how we look on the outside, but about what's driving us underneath. So this episode's for anyone who's ever wondered why do I keep reacting this way? What does growth actually look like for my type, and how do I stop being ruled by that inner critic or fear or the desire to escape, etc. So, if you're ready to grow not by becoming someone else, but becoming more truly yourself.
Speaker 2:This one's for you. Hello Molly, hi Wendy, it's so great to be here and to see you.
Speaker 1:Molly. Hi Wendy, it's so great to be here and to see you oh so good to see you.
Speaker 2:I have not done this in a while. No, and this is such a really vital and important conversation. I wanted to just add what we always say is that perspective of curiosity, with compassion, curiosity and putting that inner critic or critics aside and really channeling that self-compassion, especially as you said about this tender. It's tender work, it's sacred.
Speaker 1:That it is All right. So let's just jump into this. But I want to start by talking what passions are. And so passions I don't mean like in the romantic sense, but in the Enneagram sense. So each type has a passion, and it's basically the emotional pattern that's hard to avoid.
Speaker 1:It's not something that we consciously choose. It sort of runs in the background kind of quietly, and sometimes not so quietly, but it influences how we react, what we focus on and how we see the world. The thing is is that most of us aren't even fully aware of it. It's really tricky, it's sneaky. It's really tricky, it's sneaky and it's not always obvious in our behavior.
Speaker 1:It's that undercurrent, that thread that goes through, that felt, sense, emotional filter that we don't really realize that we're using, and so our passion tends to control us more than we control it, to control us more than we control it. So it's not about having willpower or trying harder to go against it, it's about noticing when it's there and getting curious about what it's doing. So we cannot overcome our passion of type by just trying harder. And we're going to talk a little bit about that as well. Okay, so that's the passion, it's the emotional driver and the virtue is the deeper, truer part of us that emerges when we're grounded and present. Molly, can you talk a little bit more about what the virtue is?
Speaker 2:Can you talk a little bit more about what the virtue is? Yes, sure so. The virtues are the natural expressions of our essence, as you said, when we're present, when we're open hearted, when we're aligned and at rest within ourselves. Here's the important part. We don't develop our virtue by striving or performing. It's not a skill to master. Sometimes, that's using our passion to develop our virtue. So it's not about a skill to master. Your virtue is already there. It's already there intact, it's whole and it's waiting to be remembered.
Speaker 2:And like you said at the beginning, wendy, this isn't about becoming someone new or someone different. The work is simply peeling back the layers, clearing out the clutter that's gotten in the way and fanning that essence, virtue flame, so that you can reconnect with what's always been true underneath, before the layers of the world got piled on. Our passion pulls us out of alignment and away from our whole self. While virtue invites us back, invites us back, it's this doorway back, invites us back. It's this doorway, a gateway into an embodied and an open-hearted, grounded experience of life. The more rooted we are in our wholeness, the more available we become to the full range of human experience. That's the real transformation the Enneagram offers, over and, over and over again. This journey from passion to virtue is the heart of transformation, and it's not linear, is it? It's just a constant dance and flow and out and in, and kind of like just a flow, and from my perspective it is so fulfilling. So what do you think? Should we walk through type by type?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do that. Let's just talk about what the passion and virtue are of each type and start with type eight. Does that sound good? Yeah, why don't you start with that? Okay, so starting with type eight, who's?
Speaker 1:The passion of type eight is lust, and I don't mean this in the usual way we think about it, so don't hear that word and then get worried or afraid. Okay, in Enneagram language, lust isn't only about sexuality. It's really about intensity. It's a drive to turn the dial all the way up More energy, more impact, more power, more sensation. It's a kind of emotional momentum that says don't hold back, take up space, go big or go home. It's that big energy of the eight that we experience. That is lust at work, the passion of lust at work, and please remove what you think that word means from your brain, because we don't mean that you're lusting sexually. It doesn't mean that in Enneagram terms. Okay. So this passion, it fuels a desire to feel fully alive, and that is often through physical experiences or high energy interactions, and what this is kind of masking is an unconscious sense of emptiness or a vulnerability that the eight is trying not to feel. So, instead of slowing down and softening, it's an impulse to push harder to fill up space, to fill up space with something intense enough to make that eight feel strong and in control. So less shows up in some interesting and sneaky ways. Like we said in the beginning, our passions for every type and there's no type better or worse than any other but our passions are pretty sneaky and they can be really hard to detect. So some of the ways that less shows up in type eight is through things like power struggles or the urge to challenge authority or compulsion to right a wrong by sheer force of will. It can look like pushing hard in conversation, being excessively direct or blunt and to the point of sometimes even coming off as confrontational, while that's not their intention. Their intention isn't to be confrontational but because they're trying to control the environment that they're in and that big energy that they have, to the other person receiving the information from them it can feel confrontational and it's like to the other person they may feel like they're being provoked. But this isn't the intent of the eight. It's really about them testing truth and loyalty. There's often an instinct to raise the stakes or stir the pot and especially if they believe that something is unjust or unfair, that's really hard for the eight to deal with. Okay, so that's an overview of what the passion of eight is, which is lust.
Speaker 1:Now, the virtue of type eight is innocence. So we're going from the passion of lust to innocence. So when the eight embodies innocence, they begin to respond to life with a kind of freshness and openness. It's like meeting each moment as it is, without the weight of judgment, past hurt or expectation. They experience reality as it's unfolding, and not something to conquer or to control, but something to trust. Now, this isn't about being naive or weak. Innocence is a return to wonder, a way of moving through the world with strength and softness. It's the shift from needing to armor up to realizing hey, maybe I don't need to protect myself all the time, maybe it's okay to be impacted, maybe it's okay to let others in. So when lust softens into innocence, the eight's energy becomes life-giving rather than overpowering. Their leadership becomes more collaborative and their power becomes more healing, and they stop charging through life and they start being with life. That's what I have to say about type eights.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Thank you, yeah, and you know we always have to thank eights for starting off. When we go through the Enneagram types, we often start with eights as the body center, first one in the triad. And so thanks, eights. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's get it right away.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Nines yeah, you want to talk about type nine.
Speaker 2:All right, let's talk about nines. Okay, and I love what you said, wendy, about. There is no type that is better or worse, and that's always a great thing, because sometimes when I hear my own, I'm like whoa, that's the worst. And it is because it's at play all the time for me, because I have a relationship with it. So, okay, let's go to nine. So nine's passion is sloth.
Speaker 2:Now, this isn't sloth like laziness in the traditional sense. Nines can be incredibly busy and hardworking, but Enneagram sloth in the passion definition is more about a kind of inner inaction, a tendency to go along with life as it is, while quietly disconnecting from their own presence, from their own preferences, from even their own priorities in life. At its core, sloth is about falling asleep, falling asleep to oneself. It's also an unwillingness, often unconscious, to engage fully with your own inner world, with actual feelings, with one's own needs, with your desires. It's easier and often more peaceful and doesn't cause conflict. It's easier to merge with others, to follow the familiar routine, to avoid any friction that might come from actually asserting yourself around your own desires or thoughts or perspectives.
Speaker 2:And so sloth shows up in ways that don't always look like a problem. It might look like keeping the peace, being agreeable or focusing on what others want or need, but over time, time it creates an internal sense of stuckness, this kind of inertia, especially around meaningful or new movement in life. It can be doing everything, but you might hear it in phrases like I don't know whatever you want or we could. Maybe that's an option, without a decisive yes or no. Or you see it in behaviors like deferring decisions, avoiding change or hesitating to share an opinion until everybody has spoken first. You can see it in meetings where everybody's talking and maybe the nine isn't saying anything. They're listening, observing, and while nines don't often express overt anger, they can frustrate others by being passive or unresponsive, as in doing or not doing things that can stir up resentment. That's a little bit of that um stubbornness that we say nines have, which is by being silent, by just almost being on strike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good one on strike. That's so. That's yes, I love the point that you're making, and before you move on to talk about the virtue of nine, I just want to point out again I love what you said about that. Sloth shows up, as doesn't always look like a problem, like it's keeping the peace, it's being agreeable, it's being easy.
Speaker 1:And so nines are incredibly easy for the other people in their life and it's a big lookalike with type two. So we're not talking about lookalikes today, but there's a you know, you can relate to that like, oh, I'm just going to be easy for people because I don't want to make things hard on others, but the nine, in order to do that, they have to disconnect from themselves and so they have to kind of like shut off the connection that they have with their own, like inner I don't know inner generator, right, the inner generator of life, and yeah, so Motivator. Yeah, I just wanted to like I don't know if you want to kind of we haven't gotten to twos yet, but maybe when we get to twos you can share how that does sort of look similar, that nines and twos can really look similar. It's a big, big lookalike and there's a lot of mistypes between those two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's always about the underlying core fear and core desire, motivation. And just to add to this nine conversation, Wendy, both you and I are married to nines.
Speaker 1:We are very familiar with type nine.
Speaker 2:And they're very familiar with our types.
Speaker 1:I know I have said, I've, I've said on one of our podcasts before, and I think even the one that I did, that Josh and I did together that, um, it was like, it was easy. I mean, I got like. He just never made things hard.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And we didn't know that. Yeah, I was like this works out pretty good for me.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Me too, yeah, until realizing, oh, but he's really missing out on what he wants and what he desires, and I don't want that. And so it's been a journey of working and being patient, as he's connected with his wants and desires and his own voice and opinions and that. But it's so worth it, it's like it's just worth it.
Speaker 2:There's so much that nines bring, and you know, nines, we want to hear from you, we want you at the table. People want to know you and know the whole of you. Yeah, so let's go to right action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the virtue of type nine is what Holly Is right action.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the virtue of type nine is what Holly Is right action. The virtue is right action. And right action isn't about hustling or overcorrecting and it's not reactive. It's this grounded, embodied sense of inner alignment like a knowing and a movement. Inner alignment like a knowing um and a movement, and it arises naturally, without pressure, without resistance, from a place of connection to one's own energy, to your own truth. So it's this right action, um, yeah, and I love thinking about it, um, with people who I know, who are nines, who have shared once, they kind of have the little aha of right action. Sometimes they move into action very quickly, without hesitation. Have you noticed that, wendy, or heard about that?
Speaker 1:Yes, they explain it as it's just a knowing, just because they feel. They feel it in their body, because they are a body type, and so the body is giving them a lot of information about what they need and what is, and so when they start to listen, when they open that, unlock that and start to listen to their bodies, they can get more in touch with what we're calling well what is the virtue of right action. But it's really about what they need to do that is actually for them, and so that's the confusing part. It's that nines are not lazy, they're not busy, but they're busy doing all the things for everyone else and not things for themselves that forward their own agenda, that come from what they want, and that's where it gets tricky for them, because they can have a hard time connecting with that because they've shut it off on the inside connecting with that because they've shut it off on the inside, and so that has to be awakened.
Speaker 1:And what awakens that? A lot is getting in touch, for nines is getting in touch with anger, but that's a whole like we could do a whole podcast on nines, but we got to stay on task.
Speaker 2:Okay, we'll get on tax, yeah, so. So, like you're saying, is um back to the virtue of right action? It's fanning that flame of right action for oneself, not justice in the world, but what is right action for me as a nine? Um, when they reconnect with that, they begin to show up in life, not just for others but for themselves. They start taking meaningful steps forward, even when it's uncomfortable. They claim space, speak up, make decisions and they begin to trust which is so tender that their presence matters, because it does matter deeply. When sloth softens into right action, nines come alive. They're still easygoing and steady, but no longer invisible. They move with intention, not avoidance, and that movement changes everything, because it's not just about doing more, the busy busyness of sloth. It's about becoming more fully themselves and knowing that for themselves and then sharing that, and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, you want to move on to type ones?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should. Yeah, let's move on to type ones, just for sake of time. Okay, so the passion of type one is anger, and remember, we're talking about emotional drivers and anger is an emotion. It is an emotion and it's an emotion that people can often tap into. But for the one, it's important to understand that anger isn't always loud. It's not the fiery kind of anger, although that can happen sometimes.
Speaker 1:The underlying thread of anger for the one shows up in a repressed way, it's more subtle, it's irritation, it's tension. It's their inner voice that's saying to them this isn't right, this could be better. And when they see things that aren't right or that things that could be better, it triggers anger in them. And so when, um, anger comes up, when something doesn't match their internal sense of how things should be and we talk about the word should a lot when it comes to ones, all the shooting that they do, mostly to themselves, but also to others, depending on the subtype we're talking about for the one. So it's about what doesn't match their internal sense of how things should be.
Speaker 1:Okay, and it doesn't always get it. It's also important to understand. It doesn't always get expressed directly, it morphs, it comes out as indignation, but all of a sudden can't say the word. What word am I trying to say? Indignation, indignation, thank you, I was like I can't get the word out or judgment. It can come out as an inner pressure to fix, to correct or improve. In fact, I just did an interview with a self-preservation one who called it squeezing.
Speaker 1:It feels like squeezing and everything is squeezing in on her so you can go back and check that podcast interview out that I did with Christy Ryder but ones they work really hard to hold it all together because they're striving to do things the right way, and so some of those sneaky ways that anger shows up is in becoming critical or anxious about how things are going.
Speaker 1:They're kind of mentally scanning the environment for mistakes and that squeezing it's a tightening of the jaw. They often have very rigid bodies, like if you, if you know what to look for. They're often very rigid in their body and everything is tight. Their shoulders are tight, and their shoulders are tight because there's not a lot of room for flexibility, not a lot of room for flexibility, not a lot of room for flexibility in their body and not a lot of room for flexibility in their life, because they want things to be done the right way according to them, what they think the right way is. But underneath all of that that we're talking about is just this really deep desire for integrity, for goodness and for peace.
Speaker 2:You know, if I can add one thing here, that again that curiosity with compassion, because type ones are the most hard on themselves, they have strongest inner critics. So that's where, um, when a one comes out with a should, it's because they have done so much inner critic work inside to come up with what the should is inside that once it comes out it's like, well, I've already thought about it all you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you should be doing that too. Yeah To the other. They're saying you should be doing that. Yeah To the environment. You should be.
Speaker 2:Yes, Because it's a lot of inner critic. What should I be doing? What, what?
Speaker 1:what's the right thing so?
Speaker 2:all that to say one's such compassion? Oh, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1:So this brings us to okay, well then, what? All right. So that feels like the very negative part, but let's get to the transformational part, and that's serenity. The virtue of type one is serenity, and it's not checking out or becoming passive, it's an inner calm that comes from letting go of the need to constantly should everything, to constantly improve everything, and learning to be with things as they are. It's a calm body, it's a quiet nervous system.
Speaker 1:Serenity allows ones to release that internal grip and to rest in the truth that goodness isn't always found in perfection, but it's found in presence, it's found in being with God, with what is happening as it's happening, and softening into that. And so when they do soften, ones become more open, more flexible, and they become more compassionate with themselves, first with themselves and with others. Others. It doesn't mean that they don't still deeply care, but they don't have such a compulsion to fix, to make things right or to control. I mean, every type has its way of controlling and ones try to control by making everything be the way it should be. But when they can soften into serenity, they start to trust that things can unfold in its own time and that they can respond from a place of wisdom and not from reactivity. It's beautiful when one's shift to serenity.
Speaker 2:Serenity, yeah, uncovering that, resting in that and that essence is always there. It's there within each one of us. Beautiful serenity.
Speaker 1:Okay, Molly, you're up, Molly, our resident type two. Okay, Molly you're up.
Speaker 2:Yay, molly, our resident type two.
Speaker 2:Double whammy here.
Speaker 2:I'm type two as a two, and I know this passion so well, this pride. Type two passion is pride, and it isn't the bold, boastful kind of pride we typically think of, for two's pride often shows up as false selflessness, a deeply ingrained belief that they are more valuable when they're meeting everyone else's needs and that I'm less valuable when I'm focused on my own. And so that's, I think, a little bit where the lookalike with nine comes into play. And I wanted to say a little something about the movement of understanding our passions, like when we're exploring them.
Speaker 2:There comes a point where I couldn't stop seeing my pride everywhere. I could see it everywhere, and it was like, oh my gosh, there it is again, there it is. And that point when we get so sick of ourselves, so sick of our passion, because we're getting familiar with it, starting to know it, and that I think Wendy, you tell me what you think I think it can be so uncomfortable when we start recognizing our passion at play all the time, and it's also a sign of growth is that there's there's growth in the discomfort.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it's so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. It is a sign of growth when you start to notice it showing up in your life everywhere and it seems a bit yucky, it's. I mean, when we get to four and we talk about envy, it was like when I started what you just described of seeing it everywhere, it was like, oh my gosh, it's stolen so much joy from me. I got to that place. I'm like envy has stolen joy from me. Yeah, Right.
Speaker 1:I'm not like I don't, I'm not okay with that anymore, and so I've got to. I've got to look for this and just and that started with admitting it's always there.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's, that's.
Speaker 1:And that's a hard. That's a hard thing. It's hard for twos to admit that pride is always there. It's there.
Speaker 2:And the thing about our passion is we're not going to get rid of it. It doesn't go away. And get to a place where we arrive and the pride is gone. No, no, it's just always there and I can notice it. I can, maybe, maybe I live in it and I use it because I have choice. Other times I go oh, there it is, and well, I'm going to not, I'm going to notice that and rein that in. So it's a dance. It's like this movement that we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. We should have started with explaining that. But yes, so if you've listened to this far, hopefully get that I love your comments.
Speaker 2:Okay, back to twos and pride. Was that a diversion from talking?
Speaker 1:about pride.
Speaker 2:Okay, so twos and pride in Enneagram terms. Pride is this kind of self inflation. It convinces the two that we know best what others need and that my worth comes from being the helper or the fixer or the one others rely on, the special friend, the one who's more important. And it keeps me separate, up here from the rest of the world. Or, down here, the deflation I'm worthless. So it's this up and down movement of the pride, it's the inflation and the deflation. Under the surface there's often this hidden longing to be seen and to be appreciated and loved, just for being, not for doing, not for what I give. And deflation. Twos may build themselves up as indispensable, as the most important, as vital to someone for their own survival, almost only to crash into the self-criticism when help isn't wanted or when they feel overlooked or when someone might resent them. So there's a lot of taking things very personally, even when it may not be personal or when they feel overlooked or when someone might resent them.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of taking things very personally, even when it may not be personal. Yeah, and pride doesn't always look obvious. It can manifest in more subtle ways, like offering help before it's asked for, feeling hurt or angry when it's rejected, creating dependency by being overly involved in others' lives, or quietly controlling through care and generosity, by making things happen. I call it taking the bait. Someone dangles a carrot and I grab it and go okay, I'll do that for you. Yeah, they might not even be asking that. The truth is, underneath all of this pride movement is this desire to be loved and to love. It's about love. So into the virtue, which leads us into the virtue for type two, which is humility, and this can be confusing. Which is humility? And this can be confusing pride and humility. So just keep your mind open and be curious about it.
Speaker 2:Humility isn't about shrinking or becoming less important. It's about right sizing, as I was talking about the inflation up here, above the line, deflation, below the line of everybody else. But humility is about right sizing. I'm me, you're you, I'm in my own bubble, I can take care of myself and you can take care of yourself. It's that soft, powerful awareness of your place in the bigger picture and the deep acceptance that I don't have to be everything for everyone to be worthy of love In the body.
Speaker 2:Humility brings clarity. It helps us recognize our limits, not in this shameful way, but with compassion, and it's actually quite liberating. It invites us to ask what's mine to carry and what isn't? What do I want? What do I need On a soul level? Humility reconnects twos with the truth that they don't have to earn love. They already are love. And when pride softens into humility, twos begin to care for themselves with the same devotion they offer to others. We allow space for mutuality and to receive, giving without strings, and to receive without guilt. Sometimes that's a prayer I have May I receive. Help me to receive. I want to receive because there's a resistance to receiving. So making that conscious and presence becomes even more healing because it's not fueled by proving or by overreaching, but just by being, or by overreaching but just by being. So that's that dance with humility.
Speaker 1:Beautifully said, molly, and thank you for sharing from your own experience as it to you?
Speaker 2:Yes, it continues to be there.
Speaker 1:It sure does. Okay, so to keep things moving, let's talk about threes. And the passion for type three is often confusing for people, and so just listen and see if you can pick up on what we actually mean when we say self-deceit. So the passion for type three is self-deceit and it is all about image. It's about adapting, performing and presenting whatever version of themselves seems the most likely to succeed or win in any given context. So, whatever context they find themselves in and it's really this is the part that I need you to hear it's important to understand that self-deceit it's not about lying to others, okay. It's not about being deceitful. It's a disconnection from their own truth. It's a disconnection from their own truth. It's self If you can imagine self, like capital S-E-L-F a self deceit. They're deceitful to themselves about who they really are, what their own truth is, and it's this inner split that happens when a three starts shaping themselves to fit the world in which they find themselves and they lose touch with what they actually want, and so they have to split themselves and they're dyadic in their focus of attention. So they have this focus of attention outward, but they also have this focus of attention inward, and they can't hold the two things at the same time, and so there's this kind of split that happens. It's just fascinating to me.
Speaker 1:So how does self-deceit show up? What does it look like? It looks like chasing goals that were never theirs. It's hiding flaws to maintain this polished exterior, this put-together person. It can even look like blaming others, sometimes subtly, when things don't go their way, because failure is such a threat to them. Failure feels like dying for a three.
Speaker 1:So if they are failing at something, they can often deflect that onto someone else and it's like oh well, that happened because this other person did this thing, because it's very difficult for them to own, maybe what, um? The part that they had in it, and so it can look like um, um. It can look like what would you add Molly, the? What would you add Molly? Anyways, I think that that's a good way to put it. It's like failure is so incredibly difficult for a three that they can't even bear it, and so it must be someone else, and that's part of that deceiving of themselves. Be someone else, and that's part of that deceiving of themselves. So that's one way, one way that it shows up kind of in that sneaky way, and so they don't even often realize that they're doing it Right. It's not. They're not doing it on purpose.
Speaker 1:And that's really important to understand and that image that they have over-identified with that who they're supposed to be becomes so fused with their identity that it feels like the truth who they are.
Speaker 2:They will talk about what they do to describe who they are and it's like oh, I'm this, I'm that, I'm this, I'm that, and anyways, okay, but yeah, I think that that's all I'll say about the passion of self-deceit, yeah, and if I can add that sometimes the word shape-shifting is used for both twos and threes and it can be a little off-putting to hear that shape-shifting the other way to think about it is reading a room. So threes often can really read a room and can get the pulse of where someone's at and then adjust to it, and sometimes that's where the shape-shifting comes, and then the self-deceit can look one way to friends, to coworkers, to family, and so the challenge is okay, who am I?
Speaker 1:Who am I? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:It happens without them realizing it's happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Like all our passions.
Speaker 1:Like all our passions. Yes, again, there's not one better or worse than any other. We're all on the same equal playing field here Playing field.
Speaker 2:So the virtue is an interesting word.
Speaker 1:Wendy, it is an interesting word.
Speaker 2:Can you explain it a little bit, that virtue of three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the virtue is veracity.
Speaker 2:Veracity.
Speaker 1:Veracity, and veracity is truthfulness. It's truthfulness in being. It is kind of an interesting word and not one that we're familiar with. We don't use that word often in our everyday sentences.
Speaker 1:I don't know that I've ever used that without talking about it Right. The virtue of type three veracity is truthfulness, not just in speech but in being. It's when the body, heart and voice all align. So it's authenticity. It's the three's authenticity. It's when they get in touch with who they really are. That's veracity. Working working. It's when they no longer need to craft this shape-shifted persona to feel valued or to move through the world. I've heard it said that it's like living for the eyes of others.
Speaker 1:I've got to be who others want me to be. All to be safe, all to be safe, right and so veracity. When they begin to express themselves from the inside rather than from the outside and their worth isn't tied to the outcome or the optics, and when this happens, when a three can start to identify self-deceit and starts to shift and move and soften into veracity, they stop chasing that next win and they start asking themselves what actually matters to me. Who am I when no one's watching?
Speaker 1:What do I want, what do I need? They start asking themselves those questions. It's really beautiful.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about. It's a deepness, a real depth. Veracity is and Enneagram type threes, while we may not know it, are actually some of the most sensitive and emotional. It's not wearing their heart on their sleeves though, like a four or a two might. Threes are sometimes disconnected from the emotions, but when veracity, when that fan flame of essence and veracity gets kind of uncovered, there can be a real depth and sensitivity and connection with emotions, would you say that's true.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. And connection with emotions, would you say that's true? Yes, absolutely. And I'm so glad that you brought that up, because we didn't talk about the emotional state of and we are talking about emotions, the virtues and passions. And virtues are the emotional plane of type, and yeah, the threes are very emotional. But that emotional space, the emotional part of them, gets pushed aside for the sake of doing, for the sake of achieving, Because if I'm emotional then I can't stay focused on the task I have, and so they just kind of shut that off. And when they're in veracity, that part of them is open, it's like their heart is opened. Yeah, and they're fully veracity, that part of them is open, it's like their heart is opened and they're fully alive to themselves and to what's happening around them.
Speaker 2:Fully, authentically, powerfully, deeply. So, wendy, our next type is four, and I think that you should keep going and talk about four because that is your type. Are you okay with that?
Speaker 1:Yes, I can do that Type four.
Speaker 1:I made you do type two, so it's only fair that I would do type four and you're familiar with it Because it's where I live every day, because this is an everyday experience and the passion for it is envy. And that doesn't sound like a good word, just like pride doesn't sound like a good word to you, right? But it is so true I cannot tell you how true it is that envy is a part of my experience of life and it's important to understand that. It's not about wanting other people's stuff for the four. It's not about wanting other people's stuff. It's more of an internal ache that something is missing. That something is missing and it's a deep longing for what seems to be just out of reach and it's an emotional hunger for something beautiful, something meaningful, something complete that's always seemed to live in somebody else's world but not their own. So it's like everyone else has that thing, but I don't have it.
Speaker 1:And then an envy is triggered in that it's like I want that. So it's not about taking it from you, but it's a longing for wanting it. It's a longing for wanting it, wanting that to also be true for me.
Speaker 2:I don't have it. Something's missing.
Speaker 1:Yes. So at its core, envy is rooted in a sense of deficiency, and that deficiency story of the four is something that has to be unraveled, it has to be faced head on and it has to be spoken to with truth. It's like if I notice my deficiency story getting louder, I have to speak truth to that. I'm whole, I'm not missing anything, I've got what I need. I have to say those things to myself. And so envy, this longing for the four, often traces back and fours can identify this to an early experience of loss or disconnection. Fours can identify this to an early experience of loss or disconnection. And so it leads to this perception that everyone else has something. They have, this manual for life, this access to joy that I don't have, that the four is left wanting. Why does everyone else have this thing that I don't have?
Speaker 1:And it's tough and it's just there and so being able to acknowledge that it's just there. Envy is always there and learning how to identify it, learning how to look for it and it for me and for almost every four I've ever spoken to, it's in the comparing. It expresses itself in the comparison. If I'm comparing myself to someone else, that's envy at work. So it's noticing how others seem to have what I believe I lack. And that can show up in lots of ways. It can be in beauty and ease and confidence, belonging or emotional connection, and it can swing from feeling inferior or to feeling superior. It's both, and this is a recent kind of exploration for me. I've been really paying attention to this inferiority superiority complex that I have flowing. It's very difficult for me to find the middle. I'm either or, and so I'm working my own inner work journey. Part of that right now is to is to find where I land in the middle. I'm not inferior or superior. I just am, and that's okay, that there's nothing missing.
Speaker 2:That that is. That's so ties to the virtue.
Speaker 1:Right, it does, it does.
Speaker 2:Virtue.
Speaker 1:Right Virtue works, it does.
Speaker 2:It does. We're all here, we're all.
Speaker 1:We're all, I'm okay.
Speaker 2:You're okay.
Speaker 1:I'm okay, you're okay Right.
Speaker 2:I'm amazing, you're amazing yes.
Speaker 2:Wendy, I wanted to ask a question to see if this resonates. Just try this on. You have been doing this awesome series on story on what's the narrative, what's the story that you're telling yourself, because our thoughts are so powerful and they connect to our feelings and then our actions. And so I wonder about this deficiency story, that fours have this felt sense of deficiency. If really consciously changing the story for Enneagram type fours is especially important. We all have a story, but a deficiency story is really strong and so consciously crafting a different story.
Speaker 1:Yes, 100%. And part of that rewriting of the deficiency story is naming what is positive, naming what are the good qualities, the things that I see in other people, to go oh wait, a minute, I have, I already have that, that already exists in me, and naming it and and sort of the name and claim, but it's, but it's true. Like name it and claim that those things are true, and rewriting that deficiency narrative into I already have narrative that.
Speaker 1:I have narrative that I'm whole and I can, I can, I can be in wholeness, be in wholeness. Those have been really powerful rewrites what their own story is that they're telling themselves. You know, for you it might be. It's partly like if I'm not helpful, then I'm not loved. That is part of the story of the type two.
Speaker 1:I need to do for you, I need to do for you Right and the you know how to rewrite that to be more healing story for yourself. So, yes, so that does bring me to the virtue of type four, which is equanimity, and again, a word we don't always use. But equanimity is simply emotional balance. It's the ability to hold life's highs and lows without being overwhelmed by them. It's an inner steadiness that allows the four to stay present without needing to amplify the emotion, without needing to upregulate the emotional space. It's that middle, it's that I'm not less than or more than. Equanimity is found in the middle, and so when a four embodies that equanimity, it's not a detachment but it's a deep connection. It's a deep connection and when a four can soften into that it's, it changes from like why don't I have what they have to?
Speaker 1:Right here is enough that I am enough and I am more grounded, I'm more content, um, I'm more confident and settled. And just who I am, that it's okay for me to be me. It's okay for me to be me, that me, just as me, is the gift that is needed, and that's equanimity at work, work, and for me, it was difficult for me to understand what equanimity was. At first. I was like I don't understand that, and so when I understood the definition, it gave me ways to kind of start to look out for it, and so I started to pay attention. Okay, when are the times where I feel emotionally calm? And, and is that a shutting down? Am I shutting down? Am I numbing?
Speaker 2:or am I?
Speaker 1:okay. Am I in a state of okay and so that that was helpful to me as I started to go okay. Well, how can I start to notice when equanimity might be at play and I had to go? Am I shutting down here, or am I fully present and steady at the same time?
Speaker 2:That really resonates. That really resonates. I was just talking to someone for self-preservation for about this If I don't feel, am I shutting down my emotions? Am I not okay then? Yes, yes, actually, sometimes that is the equanimity Like it is. I'm, you know, and I was just thinking as you were talking, like the name of your podcast, uniquely you, is such a great equanimity title. It is uniquely me, uniquely you. Yeah, there's room for all of us.
Speaker 1:It's okay for me and it's wholeness.
Speaker 2:you know there's a wholeness there. That's great. Yeah, thank you Okay.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Are you ready to talk about type five, Molly?
Speaker 2:Type five. Okay, speaking of words, the type five passion is avarice, avarice, not a word we use all the time. What does that mean? It's not a word we use all the time. What does that mean? So when we hear avarice, we often don't know what it means, if you're me. But when we hear it and we're familiar with that word, we think of greed or money or material things, like avarice is greed. I want that, but in the Enneagram it's much deeper than that and more nuanced.
Speaker 2:For fives, avarice is a kind of emotional withholding, a pulling back from life and from people, even from their own needs, in order to conserve what feels scarce. So it's this withholding, this almost observation stance instead of engagement. This avarice, it's a passion that's rooted in fear, and five, six and seven in the head triad are connected with fear. Triad are connected with fear. So the passion rooted in fear of avarice is this fear of depletion or of overwhelm, of being asked to give more than they have. So fives learn to hold back, guarding time, guarding energy, guarding space, guarding knowledge or gathering knowledge, more knowledge and emotions. It's not about selfishness, it's about survival. The more I can have and hold back, the more I will survive.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I don't want someone or something to take that from me. Fives often feel like their inner resources are limited and they need to protect them in order to feel safe. And this shows up as hoarding energy, needing a lot of privacy, preferring observation over participation and staying in the realm of thought rather than stepping into messy, unpredictable experience. So often for a five, uh, they need to go, process an event, whether it's a positive or a challenging experience, by themselves. Um, because of that need to protect energy, it takes energy to um to engage in conversation about something. Indirect signs of avarice include constantly gathering information and maybe not sharing it, minimizing the value of emotional connection, feeling the absence of someone but not reaching out, not making a connection. Opposite of twos, who almost feel compulsive about texting or calling people, fives may think about people but don't reach out. And even if there's physical, even a physical contraction, sometimes especially in the chest or heart, as a way of containing the emotional world. But underneath all of that self-protection and the boundaries and the withholding, is this longing to feel full, to feel whole and to feel free. So that leads us into the virtue of type five, which is non-attachment.
Speaker 2:Non-attachment is the ability to engage fully with the world without clinging or hoarding or fearing loss. It's this natural flow of taking in what's truly needed and releasing what isn't truly needed and releasing what isn't, trusting that you are not your resources and that you don't have to grip tightly to feel secure. It's about an enoughness there is enough energy, there's enough and there's a flow. It will come. What you need will come. What you need will come, a trusting of that energy In the body, non-attachment shows up as an openness, a vital energy flowing freely and the softening of the chest, presence expanding.
Speaker 2:There's this deep knowing that all is well and I'm enough. So when avarice softens into non-attachment, fives begin to rejoin the world, not by giving up solitude it's not about introvert or extrovert but by realizing they don't have to disappear to stay safe, they don't have to do it all alone. They don't have to do it all alone and they become generous with insights and their presence and even their emotions, without fear that it will cost them more than they have to give, that there will be enough time, there will be enough space, there will be enough energy and resources. So that's that dance, with non-attachment and efforts.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, Beautiful. I relate a lot to type five.
Speaker 2:My five wing is much stronger than my three wing but yeah, that kind of contraction that happens and it's so helpful to know about this when we think about our loved ones too. And I'll just share a little story about recently our eldest moved home, who's a five and a young adult, and as the invasive nosy mom self-preservation too I had to really, um, consciously integrate the Enneagram and remember oh I, I need to stay out of their space, I need to not go into their room unless I'm invited, not that I'd go nose around, but even to go just chat, like really using the framework of the Enneagram for understanding and anyway, it's such a gift to our relationships.
Speaker 2:It is and we don't do it perfectly, that's for sure. To our relationships.
Speaker 1:It is, and we don't do it perfectly, that's for sure. Yeah, all right. So we have two more to go, let's do. How about I do six? Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So the passion of type six is fear, and fear operates in the background, in the background always, just like we've talked with every type, fear is always at play. For the six, it's this driving the need to anticipate what could go wrong and it's all, to feel safer. All of our stuff is so that we feel safe, all of it. We have to really look at that. But for six, fear is rooted in the heart's longing for security, for certainty in a world that can feel pretty uncertain or even threatening.
Speaker 1:So fear in this context, for the six, is about more than just reacting to immediate danger. It's often wrapped up in anxiety. It's a sense of unease, of tension, of inner restlessness, and sometimes it's conscious, but often it just shows up as this low level kind of scanning the environment and searching for what could go wrong. Who I can trust, who can I not trust? So it's a scan, scan, scan, always scanning, and depending on the subtype, because the subtype for six understanding it is super important. A six might relate to fear as a way of hesitating, making decisions, always questioning, always questioning, or they may like double down and go against that fear with just this kind of forceful movement of being like overly sure about something. And being overly sure about something for a six can also be fear at play, and that can be a little bit tougher to spot and that can be a little bit tougher to spot, and so it's good for sixes to start to pay attention.
Speaker 1:when fear shows up, like asking a lot of questions but being slow to answer, like always anticipating problems even when things are going well, like if things are going well and you notice that you're uncomfortable with the fact that things are going well, that's maybe an indicator that fear is at play. For a six it can look like delaying action to avoid risk or, in that impulsive reaction, to be in control. And fear for a six in the body feels like tension, especially like in the chest or shoulder and often in the stomach. There's like this anxieties, tummy going on.
Speaker 2:So, wendy, I wanted to kind of play around with this a little bit, see what you think, because it seems like type sixes get a double dose of fear.
Speaker 1:Yes, they do.
Speaker 2:They get a double dose and it's emotional and it's also it turns into a lot of mental chatter in that using the mind to figure out any problem. So it's a very, very head centered um action of fear as well, strategizing to what, what could go wrong, um looking at every angle and I think that, um, I just wanted to see what you thought about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's. I mean, that's such a good point to make. Six is to describe this very busy brain of always wondering about things. Yeah, what is the what ifs? There's a lot of what ifs. Well, what about this? Well, what about this? Well, what about this? And it's so mentally taxing, so heavy, like their heads feel heavy, like you might even notice that they lean their head to the side or something like that. They might even look up when they're talking because they're just thinking so hard about what's going on.
Speaker 2:And yet it's so emotionally tied because of the passion which is tied to the emotional.
Speaker 1:So not only are they in the fear triad with five, six and seven, but they also have a passion of fear. That fear is always at play for the sixth.
Speaker 2:Which leads to the beautiful virtue.
Speaker 1:Yes, of courage, of courage, yeah, and we always say courage isn't the absence of fear.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right. It's not the absence of fear, it's being willing to act. Even in the presence of fear. It's moving, yes, in the presence of fear it's moving, yes. So for the six, that courage really looks like, that grounded strength that says I may not know what's coming, but I know I can handle it. That's an excellent mantra for a six I may not know what's coming, but I know I can handle it. Write that down If you're a six and you're listening.
Speaker 2:I love that but I know I can handle it. Write that down If you're a six and you're listening yeah Story and changing the narrative yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So Not what's coming, but I know I can handle it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So courage is what happens when the six shifts from seeking safety on the outside of themselves to discovering that it's already within them, that they can trust their own inner authority, that they can trust their inner wisdom and that they're resilient. So in the body, courage is this kind of rooted. It's a rootedness. It's a groundedness that the body that you can move naturally in the world without panic, a steady energy, a willingness to show up and a willingness to take risk and to move and make decisions faster than maybe you have in the past. That is a sign that courage is present for a sixth, all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:To add.
Speaker 2:That's great and last but not least, is that right?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Type seven. Okay, well, type seven, the passion is gluttony. And when we think of the word or hear the word gluttony, what do you usually think of? We think of overeating, overindulgence, food eating, gluttony. But in the Enneagram it means something different. It's much broader. For sevens, gluttony is a hunger for possibility. This hunger for what might be, it's the desire to taste everything good life has to offer and to avoid anything that might feel limiting or painful or dull or boring. Boring is like a buzzword for sevens. Right, it's this passionate pursuit of pleasure, of positivity, of stimulation and a kind of internal urgency that whispers there's more out there. Don't miss it, don't get stuck, don't settle for something. That's how the passion of gluttony operates. It can show up in a lot of ways like.
Speaker 2:FOMO. You know FOMO or restlessness, trouble staying focused, needing to jump from idea to idea or experience to experience, kind of a not settling down, sometimes even sitting down. Sevens often avoid what feels negative or heavy, choosing instead to reframe it there's a lot of spinning to the positive or gloss it over with a silver lining to reframe it. There's a lot of spinning to the positive or gloss it over with a silver lining. And that's an interesting thing about sevens and twos Also lookalikes have the spin to the positive, spinning things to the positive in the reframe. However, some indirect signs of gluttony for a seven might be avoiding commitment or difficult emotions Like, say, someone invites you to the movies and you say you know I'll get back to you about that. Does something better come along?
Speaker 1:Something better might come up.
Speaker 2:Constantly planning the next adventure while missing the moment you're in. So the vacation arrives and you're thinking about the next vacation while you're on vacation, or a project you know. Name your scenario.
Speaker 1:Not being able to complete projects. Right that is yeah, yeah, Some seven. Being able to focus and finish and start something and see it all the way through to the end, the details are not as exciting. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of sevens will be amazing visionaries and planners of an idea or anything. And then the details are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it gets, because it gets, boring, because it gets boring. Because it gets boring, like once, the excitement of the new idea and the start of a project maybe, but then you have to like, do the monotonous thing to finish and see things through. Well, that's where the seven gets bored and they get distracted to the next thing because they like the stimulation of the exciting idea. And that's gluttony at play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's gluttony at play, yeah, and putting a positive spin on everything, even when something needs to be grieved or acknowledged honestly. The other thing I've been curious about with sevens lately is procrastination or important or fun, or is a kind of trivial task. Sevens often describe that they're not going to do it unless they have to, unless they're made to. At the heart of it, this gluttony is a strategy. It's a way to avoid discomfort, to avoid emptiness or to avoid pain by filling life with more and then more, and then more Adventure adventure, next, next, next. But eventually even the best experiences stop satisfying. It stops being fulfilling or satisfying if we're not fully present to them, able to absorb it in the moment.
Speaker 2:So the virtue of type seven is sobriety, and we're not just talking about sobriety from substances. This is about almost like a seriousness. It's about presence. Sobriety happens when the seven learns to be with what is, instead of needing more. It's the ability to take in just enough, enough beauty. It's the ability to take in just enough, enough beauty, enough joy, enough experience and let that be satisfying. It's a presence. It's almost stay putness and it comes with a little bit of seriousness in a good way. Seriousness in a good way, in the body.
Speaker 2:Sobriety feels grounded, proportionate, balanced. The energy is no longer scattered or chasing the next thing. It's right here, steady and focused. When gluttony softens into sobriety and that fan gets flamed, sevens begin to truly savor life in the moment, not by avoiding the hard stuff, but by allowing space for all of it. Joy deepens because it's no longer dependent on constant novelty. We're the next best, the shiny object. Next best, the shiny object. Squirrel Metaphor, great squirrel Connection becomes richer because they're actually present in it. And the irony is, when sevens stop trying to escape discomfort, they gain access to even more beauty and meaning and fulfillment, the kind that lasts fulfillment, the kind that lasts.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. You said it was a seriousness. That makes a lot of sense, that there's a seriousness to it, instead of avoiding what might be serious because that's no fun, seriousness isn't fun, but sometimes things call for seriousness and being able to be present with that. So I love that that you said that. Well, there are your nine types, there are your nine passions, there are your nine virtues and there are your nine invitations to come home to yourself. And just a reminder that this is not easy work, this inner work we're talking about, this healing that we're talking about. It's not easy and it's not quick.
Speaker 1:And it's not linear, it's not. You get on one and you path and you move just in this straight line. It's three steps forward and two steps back. It's an expansion and then a contraction. It's all the things. It's an awareness and then a coming back to the habitual way, because that's what's familiar and what feels safe. And so holding all of that with open hands, with an open heart, with curiosity and compassion for yourself, is at the heart of this work, this deep inner healing and inner just awakening of being more wholly you, yeah, yeah. So again, it's not about becoming I guess I want to say again, it's not about becoming someone else. It's about remembering who you've been all along.
Speaker 1:It's a coming back home to who you were created to be being grounded and whole's not a simple one either, and it's one that you can't go backwards from is there to move higher, to move forward to, to heal and to grow, to be more present with yourself and with others, and so um I don't have any closing thoughts.
Speaker 2:Just thinking of how hopeful it is because the virtue, it's our virtues already there. We're already this essence, this um our virtues, already there.
Speaker 2:We're already this essence, this, almost intricately perfectly created little essence and the virtues mixed in there and our passion is just the way we've adapted. It's just the behaviors and the patterns that have served us to be safe. It's not a flaw, it's a signal. It's not wrong or bad, it's just a way and so really, as we work with the passion and the virtue, it's just an expanding. It's giving us choice, it's giving us freedom and consciousness, freedom and consciousness, and that is um that, it makes life kind of alive.
Speaker 1:Yes, it certainly does it certainly does so.
Speaker 2:Wendy, I have to say, as we were talking, I had to jot down some notes cause I'm like, Ooh, that would be a fun thing to talk about.
Speaker 1:Ooh, that would you write down.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about the story we tell ourselves, what does each story tell themselves and what might be some things, and I know you've done a lot of work around that. I also think about object relations, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are all fantastic. Yeah, it sounds like we've got way more to do. Right, okay, and we always try to keep this to an hour, but I'm sure I know we went really long today, so if you're still with us, we really appreciate it and if you loved this episode, if you would take a moment to share it with a friend and leave a review.