Anne Levine Show
Funny, weekly, sugar free: Starring "Michael-over-there."
Anne Levine Show
Being Denzel
Anne is ALWAYS interested in great television and starts off this week's show with her thoughts about "Joan," the thrilling (Found on BritBox) series starring Sophie Turner. Our conversation is as lively as the show itself, with Michael Over There™ sharing his barely informed opinions of British actors and actresses and such like. Anne is interested in Sophie's impressive career while Michael includes her severed connection to Joe Jonas. Also, we chat about gripping series like "Landman" (again) and "The Morning Show."
Switching gears to cinema, we explore the authentic familial dynamics of "A Real Pain," featuring Jesse Eisenberg and Kieran Culkin. The charm of the film lies in its exploration of deep-seated family bonds. From there, we tackle "Gladiator 2" and its quirky portrayal of Roman emperors, but it's Denzel Washington's natural accent that steals the spotlight for Anne, suggesting that his performance stands out as the reason to watch this film. We also touch on the pitfalls of other accent work in films, recalling Kevin Costner's memorable struggles in "Robin Hood."
Our journey concludes with a poignant reflection on the Vietnam War through powerful literature and personal stories. Anne delves into the emotional depth of Tim O'Brien's "The Things They Carried," among other works, to highlight the complexities of war. We pay tribute to Major Richard Ayers, an Air Force pilot whose story of disappearance remains a haunting reminder of unresolved sacrifices. Join us as we remember the bravery and reflect on the stories that continue to shape our understanding of conflict and peace.
Find our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/447251562357065/
Hello, this is Ann Levine and this is the Ann Levine Show Starring Michael over there.
Speaker 1:Hello.
Speaker 2:We are on WOMR 92.1 FM in Provincetown.
Speaker 1:And WFMR 91.3, fm Orleans.
Speaker 2:And when a show starts.
Speaker 1:And we're streaming worldwide.
Speaker 2:That's true On WOMRorg.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:When a show starts with Br in pocket by the pretenders.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good one.
Speaker 2:At least when it does for me. I'm in. I was hooked into watching Joan J-O-A-N.
Speaker 1:Joan J-O-A-N. Okay.
Speaker 2:On BritBox.
Speaker 1:Okay, is Joan some unknown Joan's?
Speaker 2:name. Yes, joan's name is Joan Harrington. That is her real name and she is a very famous and in one article I read it said she's a member of the criminal elite in England. She, I don't know the whole story. I know the first six episodes, which I've been led to believe are the only episodes. Okay, although you know TV BritBox, whatever. Anyway, this is a new show, 2024.
Speaker 1:Called Joan.
Speaker 2:Called Joan.
Speaker 1:Six episodes.
Speaker 2:It's from the BBC. It's on BritBox. I don't know if it's anywhere else.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was not able to find it anywhere else. Okay, yeah, I had finished the most recent episode of Landman, which is one of the greatest shows ever, right yep Stalling, starring Billy Bob Thornton, jon Hamm, et cetera, and I have no more to watch.
Speaker 1:So you turn to this in, and so I'm scrolling around In desperation.
Speaker 2:I found Joan you found Joan Okay. And I watched a preview. And what happened?
Speaker 1:They started playing Brass and Pocket, okay, yeah, and you're like, oh, I got to do this now and I thought oh, this is what we're doing now.
Speaker 2:That makes me want to sign up for a free trial on BritBox.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I know that you have it, but I wanted to watch it on my phone in bed.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you were asleep. So I just signed up for the free trial and I knew if I liked it, six episodes would be gone super fast I do, I do, like me some brit box yes, you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love all those, uh, the old comedies and uh and like the mystery stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, this is a mystery thriller which I think you would like very much, and I think that I would like to watch it again on something larger than my phone. So, maybe we could watch it. Weird but I recommend it folks. Sophie Turner is the actress who stars, who plays Joan. I'm not familiar with the other actors and actresses. Michael probably will be, because he knows all of the Brit actors and actresses.
Speaker 1:I do not. Yeah, I know a bunch of them. I don't know them all, Okay.
Speaker 2:At any rate, I didn't recognize them. But I don't watch a lot of British television. I watch the ones that are on American TV pretending to be Americans because, there aren't enough American actors.
Speaker 1:That's right, but they do a really good job.
Speaker 2:Yes, they do, yes, they do. And it's interesting because in the show, at one point Joan has to pretend to be an American.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And of course slides right into a perfect American accent.
Speaker 1:It's very funny that you could not say American accent.
Speaker 2:It's very funny that you could not say an American accent and I thought wait a minute, Is this an American pretending to be a Brit pretending to be an American?
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Now I don't know. I haven't looked into Sophie Turner at all. I have done no homework on this, I just finished watching it.
Speaker 1:She is a Brit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, that's a bit of a relief, although I think it would have been hilarious if she was.
Speaker 1:She's married to Joe Jonas.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Was actually they split up last year.
Speaker 2:Oh well, there, split up last year. Oh Well, there you go, yeah, married to one of them, jonas brothers.
Speaker 1:Joe Jonas has a song. Oh, okay, I know, I know Sophie Turner. I knew that name anyway, but I couldn't have placed her.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2:There you go, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Big time.
Speaker 2:Okay, big time never saw it. Yeah, so you know she's the redhead.
Speaker 1:You would remember. If you saw a photo of her, you would say I've seen her in Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2:Well, I, because we watched the first season, I saw a photo of her. I mean, I just watched six episodes of her and it never and just watched six episodes of her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it never. And in fact she was wearing red hair, right? No, I'm saying if you saw a picture of her from game of thrones you would say I remember seeing that girl jane harrington, um, sophie turner.
Speaker 2:Anyhow, I recommend it highly. Uh, whether or not more episodes are to come, yeah, um, without you know, without spoilers, I can't tell you why. I think there might be more seasons coming. I hope there are, um, but it could certainly end right where it ended, at the end of season six. And I find it very satisfying when a show ends, you know when you're not waiting for the next episode or the next season. You know you may be bummed that it's over, but okay, you know it's not like. Okay, well, a year from now, like morning show, that's making me crazy okay you've never seen morning show.
Speaker 1:I've seen an episode of it, yeah that's on apple tv, yeah. Apple.
Speaker 2:TV. Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1:And that that's Jennifer Aniston and Reese.
Speaker 2:Witherspoon, reese Witherspoon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tig Notaro, billy Crudup, forgetting there's a lot of people on it and there's a lot of guest stars coming running through as well and I was not.
Speaker 2:That's a show that I was absolutely not motivated at all to watch. And same thing with Grey's Anatomy I had the luxury of being able to watch seasons one through three all at once. Now I'm just a pathetic slug on my couch waiting for season four. It's sad Waiting for season four.
Speaker 1:It's sad or season 93 of.
Speaker 2:Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 1:Well, no what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:I'm talking about the morning show.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:When it comes to Grey's Anatomy, they wore me out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think they've worn everybody out.
Speaker 2:Well, they finally got to a point where for me, it became truly ridiculous. So many of the people that drew me in initially were written out of the show.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and they've been gone for a while now. Actually, no, not, actually yeah.
Speaker 2:And even with the remaining people, it ceased to have any reality whatsoever in it. And also, now that we're in the age of Ozempic, all of the overweight actors and actresses or just actors, I guess we're supposed to say now are thin and everyone looks weird.
Speaker 2:No one looks like themselves. Two like key Grey's Anatomy actors who part of their whole. All I can say is that when you're used to an actor or an actress looking a certain way and they change dramatically, it's hard to um, it's hard to get one's mind around sometimes and I don't just mean losing weight, I mean plastic surgery, um, gaining weight, you know any kind of profound change. It's hard to you know. You know what I mean, don't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, speaking of plastic, I mean we're conditioned, you know, we like what we like, we like, you know, like the same thing. That is really. We don't like a lot of radical changes in anything. For the most part, I mean if A and B, and certainly not in entertainment.
Speaker 2:You know chaos doesn't make for a long run on a television show for a long run on a television show, If Aunt Bea had come back to Mayberry as a size four Andy well, we would not have been happy, would we?
Speaker 1:Well, no, we would have been worried about her health.
Speaker 2:Yes, aunt Bea, you know, but also we would have been confused. That's the other thing is there's no reference to any of it, you know it's okay, so here's this woman. Well, in this case I can't think of his name, I'm sorry. He's one of the big stars of Grey's Anatomy and he's been on since episode one and he's always been an overweight man, you know, not tremendous but heavy. And now he's skinny, you know he's like done the Al Sharpton and it looks like his head is a balloon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard to get used to. It's still hard for me. Al Sharpton, as far as I know for the most part, has looked the way that he looks now for many, many, many years.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's been decades since he looks like the guy that is stuck in my head. Yes, because every time I see him I'm like where did three quarters of this guy go?
Speaker 2:And that's the thing. You still are thinking that, right, yeah. And then you got al roker speaking of the other fat al right who's now thin, al roker had bariatric surgery. But here's the thing with al roker he discussed it yeah, that is true, yeah he said he was having very open thing yeah right and these other things, and I'm saying a zempic. I don't know that these people are using the fact that people show up on a show. You know, season nine out of 20 seasons in a completely different body and it's not mentioned.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, that is a little weird, the fact that there's, you know's, it really just kind of gets ignored.
Speaker 2:But oh well, you know.
Speaker 1:What are you going to do, really?
Speaker 2:What are you going to do?
Speaker 1:I don't know I'm not going to do anything about that particular situation Because it doesn't concern me enough, but Well it doesn't concern me it.
Speaker 2:But Well, it doesn't concern me, it's simply odd. I find it hard to to Esipathomercosin.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is tiny now.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, she's kind of gone both ways. Well, she is ways. Well, watch her go from rather slim to a larger woman and then back to slimmer again.
Speaker 2:Well, she is now slimmer than slimmer she's now you know, she's now hollywood thin yeah and I'm sorry, but that's never been s pay the marcuson for me and it's.
Speaker 2:it's a little difficult, okay, and there's no mention of it. You know just if someone would come on and say, hey, you look great. And she'd say something like, yeah, yeah, well, I really stuck to my New Year's resolution this year. Whatever, just some stupid little line, or I decided I needed to take better care of myself. Anyway, speaking of plastic surgery, she's 72, by the way. Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:So just so you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, good to know. By greatest, I mean biggest, weirdest, most bizarre case of plastic surgery that I know of. You know this makes Michael Jackson look completely normal. Is Jacqueline Wildenstein, also known as the Catwoman? Yeah, now, if you don't know who Jacqueline Wildenstein is, look her up now. She had, and I don't know who she convinced. I guess if you have enough money you can convince anyone to do anything. She convinced some plastic surgeons to make her look like a wild cat, and they did.
Speaker 1:Now, needless to say, I think she looked a bit more like a Ron Perlman than a wild cat, but you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Well, she looks completely insane. Well, looked completely insane, she just passed away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard about that.
Speaker 2:And she looked like Ron Perlman I think that's an insult to Ron Perlman quite frankly, all right. But I think he's more attractive than Jacqueline Wildenstein was.
Speaker 1:Well I mean, yeah, because he's that way without the work. You know she had to work to look like that.
Speaker 2:You think he really looks like her or vice versa, he really looks like her or vice versa?
Speaker 1:Well, yes, I think if you compare her to Pearlman in Beauty and the Beast, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, I mean just walking around Pearlman, not the Beast. Oh, jacqueline, well I I've got to get in touch with my brother about that because he and I have long been I can't say fan um that we were fans of hers, but certainly gawkers and she would often appear in the Post or on People. I mean any time anyone did any kind of issue about plastic surgery.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, she's like one of the poster children for what not?
Speaker 2:to? Do yeah, yeah, um, so anyhow, uh, be careful out there. If you're thinking about getting a facelift, anything more than some injectables, look at some photos of Jacqueline Wildenstein. Look at some. Anyway, if you haven't.
Speaker 1:I'm going to tell you this right now. If you're in your 20s and you're getting injectables, stop it. What the hell is wrong with you In your 20s?
Speaker 2:Well, I can tell you what they are sold and why. Why they do it. They are told to get it to prevent lines and wrinkles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just creates them.
Speaker 2:They're told that it's preventative. So there you go. It's not because they're all.
Speaker 1:Stop doing it.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more yeah, if you're in your 20s, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:I mean, that just is such a waste.
Speaker 2:A waste.
Speaker 1:Your skin is in such great shape in your 20s. Oh my God, everybody looks so much better. I got to have lip injections. Oh great yeah.
Speaker 2:I know, but well, I gotta have. I gotta have lip injections, oh great, yeah, I know I don't, uh, that's.
Speaker 1:Lip injections are not something that I understand at all yeah a lot of it a lot of it, including a cat cat lady there, boy she was, uh, jacked up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean every no part of her looks like or is anything like what she was born with.
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean she, that's radical yeah, well, yeah, yeah, that would be the definition of radical.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, but it certainly is not. Here's the thing If you get lip injections, not implants Wildenstein had implants If you get injections and you get them once, it's going to go away, that's right. Okay, that stuff does fade. If you get Botox, it's going to stop working. You know, it's not like injectables are not forever. Implants and plastic surgery are forever. And those implants, even though they can be removed if they're in long enough, they will leave you with saggy, hanging lips, yep, and you'll sound like you have an accent. All right, I've been doing a lot of reading.
Speaker 1:But, well, first let's talk about a film that we saw called A Real Pain.
Speaker 2:Which was oh, that was Jesse and Kieran. Yeah, yes, jesse Eisenberg, kieran Culkin, Jennifer Gray and it's about Jesse Eisenberg and Kieran Culkin, who are cousins, who go on a trip to Poland to see the house where their grandmother was born and lived the first few years of her life before she escaped the Holocaust. And I'm not sure and this is the house they went to is Jesse Eisenberg's actual house, grandmother's house. So, knowing that part of it is cool. Basically, though, the film is about the relationship between these cousins, and they're like brothers and they're both so good. They are both so good, they are both so good. They each play a very distinct character, a very distinct type of person.
Speaker 2:Jesse selected—Jesse did the casting. Jesse Eisenberg's amazing. He's a wunderkind. I never knew that. I mean, he wrote this, produced this, directed it, he did this whole thing and he casted it. Or do you say he cast it? No, he cast it, it was casted by. Or do you say he cast it? No, he cast it, it was casted by? He, him, and what an incredible talent. And I'm sort of the last person to know. I guess, based on interviews and things I've heard, I didn't know that he was so fully talented.
Speaker 2:At any rate, it really is a fantastic look at the relationship between two men who they could have been playing brothers. They were playing cousins, but very, very close cousins, and and it was just so touching and so interesting that relationship and the differences between them and I sort of felt like I could see where that would be me and my sister. I could see where that would be me and my sister. I could picture and feel and understand what that's like, that sibling or sibling-like relationship. So I do recommend it. I think it is really worth the watch. Did I mention Gladiator 2?
Speaker 1:No, I mean when Today no.
Speaker 2:No, I meant last week.
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Okay, I watched Gladiator 2. All right, I did it. Michael said he didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2:I didn't like the first Gladiator, so I didn't either, but I was bored and I wanted to watch something, so I dialed it up and I watched it and it is so weird, it's just so weird there are, there are these sort of stereotype characters that play these emperors, these Roman emperors, in gladiator 2. It's these twins, these twin brothers, who are all like kind of vaguely incestuous and overly effeminate, and they wear white makeup and like gold laura leaves their hair and green eye shadow, and you know they're all thumbs down all the way okay, yeah um, from me also to them.
Speaker 2:But they're all about, oh, kill them, oh, you know, just tittering weirdos, and so there's a lot of that. There's a lot of having to make up a whole new thing for there to be Gladiator 2. So any resemblance to actual places and times in history that existed in Gladiator the original don't exist now in this one. So it's all really stupid, uh, and of course it's got Paul Mezcal and what's the other one's name.
Speaker 1:Denzel.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, denzel. There's another one too that I can't think of. At any rate, denzel is the one thing about the film that I really liked. I really really enjoyed him. He plays a Roman senator and he's himself, so he doesn't try to use an English accent to make himself seem Roman. You know he doesn't do that. So many actors I don't know if they come up with it themselves or if they're directed, but so many actors like, if you've got to have a Nazi villain, they always have an English accent. You know. So many villains.
Speaker 1:It's a movie trope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:It's been around for decades.
Speaker 2:Exactly Actors in this film. Oh, lior Raz was in this movie too. Who's this major? If you've ever seen Fauda, you know this actor, major Israeli heartthrob, and it was just so interesting to see him in this movie. He, of course, did not have to put on an accent, he just used his home base accent, which was the. He was the only person that sounded authentic. I mean, he's got an Israeli accent which sounded like at least he was in the right kind of segment of the world. But Denzel didn't do that, he just. And when he does Shakespeare he doesn't do that either. He doesn't put on an English accent.
Speaker 1:Well, no, and for a specific reason.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 1:He was hired to be Denzel. Oh, in what? In whatever he's been hired to do, see, he's playing a character, but he still has to be Denzel, because Denzel sells tickets. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Well, sure, but I mean, there are plenty.
Speaker 1:So you don't put on fake accents in these movies, because that's not Denzel.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:He doesn't do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there are plenty of actors who are very famous and people go to see plays and movies that they're in.
Speaker 1:that do that uh-huh, most of them get laughed at. Oh well, anyway, most of them can't, can't do accents. Well, that's the. That's the problem with americans doing accents they don't do them very well. I think of, uh, robin hood and uh, I think of Robin Hood and the. Who was Robin Hood, the guy from Dancing with Wolves?
Speaker 2:Kevin Costner, kevin.
Speaker 1:Costner was Robin Hood and he had the worst accent that came and went throughout the movie. It was either there or it wasn't. Or it was there or it wasn't. Oh, it was awful, and that's what I hear when I hear American actors putting on accents most of the time I see.
Speaker 2:Well, I never saw that, but I hear your point At any rate, denzel. Best thing about it, because he was himself and he was doing a great acting job. You know that's what was. You know that's what was using an accent was not something from his toolbox that he needed or that would have worked really.
Speaker 1:Right because he stands out.
Speaker 2:So he seemed precisely like the character he was playing, which was not the case of some of the other actors. Now, given that there were no great roles in this movie there was no great. There was no great dialogue, no great speeches it's a really bad movie. Did I mention that it's not a good movie? But Denzel was fabulous and even though he's not in it as much as I wish he were, I would say once it goes free, I would say this is not worth buying on demand. I regret that I have buyer's remorse, but, denzel, thank you Denzel. You gave me my $19 worth, so gotta mention that.
Speaker 1:Tell me about great films about Vietnam that you know, about Apocalypse Now, uh-huh. Anything else I don't know. Hamburger Hill, I don't know Name a war movie that's been made in the past 30 years that isn't saving Private Ryan, and it's usually about Vietnam Tropic Thunder. There you go, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, comedy.
Speaker 1:At any rate, we know a lot of Good Morning Vietnam.
Speaker 2:Right, the Deer Hunter, the Deer Hunter. At any rate, a lot of good morning vietnam. Right, the deer hunter, the deer hunter. There we go. The deer hunter is something I need to watch again soon.
Speaker 1:I mentioned very hard to watch parts of that movie. Oh I know the Russian roulette part. Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, christopher Walken.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Yeah, there's a lot about that film that's just extraordinary. And you've got that cast. You've got Meryl Streep, john Cazale, christopher Walken, john Voight, is De Niro in it.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't even remember.
Speaker 2:The Deer Hunter is an extraordinary film. If you have not watched it, I can't imagine that you haven't. But if you haven't watch it, or if it's one of those things that you watched when it came, out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Robert De Niro is in it, by the way.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean everybody's in it, everyone's in that film, yeah, and it is an absolute masterpiece, and it is an absolute masterpiece and also, by the way, going along with John Cazale, won an Oscar.
Speaker 1:The movie, every movie he was in, won an Oscar.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, amazing, amazing film. I must watch it again. And the reason I asked Michael about Vietnam is because I have been reading a lot about Vietnam. I think I mentioned that I had read the Women by Kirsten Hanna, which I don't know if you mentioned it on the show.
Speaker 1:But we had talked about it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a book that I read for a book club and it's Kirsten Hanna's latest offering offering. It's a bestseller. It's called the Women and it is about the women who went to Vietnam and a lot of people said at the time, and still say, there were no women in Vietnam. Well, there were. There were something like 10,000 women in Vietnam and a lot of them were combat medics and nurses. And they say, yes, but they didn't fight.
Speaker 2:You know, go ahead and read the book or read something like what I then jumped to, which is the Things they Carried, by Timothy O'Brien, which is a fantastic book that I highly recommend, and it's like a string of memories and it's nonfiction, but it's beautiful. It's like a string of pearls, it's a necklace, it's not. Oh, this begins here and it ends here. It's just, it flows into one beautiful memoir and it's won all kinds of literary critical acclaim. From there I went to a book called Matterhorn, because I wanted to hear more and more in depth. Tim O'Brien's book is quite slim, Beautiful novel, beautiful memoir, beautiful book. Highly recommend it. But if you're like myself and you want to stay in a book for a long time, Matterhorn will be more for you. Um, and so I come to the end of Matterhorn, which I thoroughly enjoyed, and I've got to look up the name of the author because I have forgotten it and it's not the easiest. Here it is it's Karl Marlantes is the name of the author, and it is a novel and it's great. It's a great novel.
Speaker 2:Now, none of the books that I'm mentioning are easy to read and there's plenty of upsetting stuff and it's not, at least for me, and I think people who are, say, 50 and up have memories of the Vietnam War when it was happening. I mean, it ended in 1974, and it started in 63, I think it was and it was on TV every night. Jonathan Brook does a great song that says Every morning I get up and I watch the war. That's the lyric of the opening of the song and it's so true. I mean that's what we all do now. But with the Vietnam War it was the first time that it was all on TV. It was all televised, yeah, and it was horrifying. You know, every night you'd turn on your this is pre-24-7 television pre-cable. You'd turn on whatever.
Speaker 1:One of three channels.
Speaker 2:Right, one of the networks yeah and you'd hear about this.
Speaker 1:Many people died this many people, whatever it was, uh, if you were listening to a city like news broadcast, you might hear a list of names of people from the city who died.
Speaker 2:The other thing you would hear was the lottery.
Speaker 1:Right the draft lottery yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about. You know when your number came up? Literally time for you to go.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So the whole thing was broadcast. Vietnam was broadcast in a way that no conflict had been prior. So if you don't remember those days, if you're too young for that, or even if you did live through those days, those years, but you don't know really enough about it, I fall in that category. I highly, highly, highly recommend that you get on it, start reading, start watching and learning. I've learned so much in the past few weeks few weeks about Vietnam, about war, about, of course, the horrors of war, but I've also learned some really interesting things about the other side of war that some wars are necessary, conflict is necessary and fighting is necessary in some cases. So nonviolence works for certain things in certain ways. Violence works for certain things in certain ways. I never thought I would hear myself say that or that, I would believe that or that. I would understand that, and I can say that I understand that now, even though I've been reading about one of the most horrendous things this country has ever been through and has ever done, and we've done some really bad things to other countries and other people. And, oh my God, the napalm and the ugh, all of that stuff, the brutality, it's just incredible. Starvation, and then what happened in Cambodia and in Laos and so on. The whole thing, and war in Southeast Asia, in Asia, is horrific. My great uncle ended up never coming back and he survived. He lost a leg, um, but he stayed Um, and and this was not Vietnam, he preceded that. He ended up staying in the Mariana Islands and then ultimately moving to New Zealand, but he couldn't get out. And there are many, many soldiers in many wars that can't get out. The Vietnam veteran is unique among them because those veterans were abused when they came home. They were abused by people on the street, by passersby. They were spat on, they were oh, it's just horrendous Denied work, denied work, denied help. Women were denied help. When they would go to VA for help, the people at the VA would say that there were no women in Vietnam. The people at the VA were telling them that I will hop off my soapbox, except to say that I, through the miracle of IP addresses, located a book that I thought was lost to me. So there's Matterhorn. I got to read his name because I can't remember it. Carl Marlantes author. Read it. It's excellent. Then or before then.
Speaker 2:The Thirteenth Valley by John Delvecchio is really extraordinary. It came out. It first came out in 1982. A lot of these books first came out, like Tim O'Brien first came out in the 80s, first came out in the 80s, which is about 20 years after these guys, 15 to 20 years after these guys got home and got to a point where they could do a thing or where any publisher was interested, quite frankly, and what I realized now is that they're aging out.
Speaker 2:You know this, this guy, um John Delvecchio, that wrote the 13th valley, that first came out in 1982 and has been revised two or three times as he's gathered more information, um he's 84.
Speaker 2:You know, these are our moms and dads and so quick, I say, get on it. Get on it while you can do something about it, while there are still the people that you may know and love, that were in Vietnam are still around and you can still talk to them, and while you're still around, for that matter. So the 13th Valley, john Delvecchio, the book club women that told me to read, the Women are going to hate it when I walk in with all of this other Vietnam literature under my belt. I told Michael about something that in the women there's a scene where a nurse who went to Vietnam walks by a table where these bracelets with metal bracelets in a box and it says you know, palmia bracelets, p-o-w-m-i-a. Prisoners of war, missing in action. And in the early 70s someone got the idea that they would make these bracelets with the name of a soldier who was either a prisoner of war or missing in action, and it was five bucks a bracelet and I wish I knew what that's equal to now 25 probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somewhere around there I mean it wasn't nothing.
Speaker 2:I mean it wasn't nothing. I remember I wanted one and I remember I had to ask my parents for $5. I was probably 12. And it wasn't a. You know, it wasn't. What a five-buck purchase is today, that you've just got it in your pocket, necessarily. But they said, yes, that I could get one, and gave me the $5, and I got one and the name on it was Major Richard Ayers A-Y-E-R-S, richard Ayers, a-y-e-r-s. And I am sorry to say that I did not wear it until he was located. I'll tell you what located means in a minute. I'll tell you what located means in a minute. But I never forgot his name and I was 12 when I started wearing that bracelet. I don't remember how long it was that I wore it. Anyway, when my niece Lindsay was a kid, they went to a field trip to washington and one of the things they were doing was visiting the vietnam war memorial where people etch names um that are on the wall, and her teacher said they do rubbings right yeah um, so the names are inscribed.
Speaker 2:How do you describe it? Chiseled and etched into the wall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, carved into the wall and you would make an etching you put a piece of paper over the top of it and a crayon or charcoal and you rub over the top and everything but the letters is darkened.
Speaker 2:Right. So, you have the image of their name on this piece of paper. From the wall itself yeah. It's actually pretty powerful, it is and I said, lindsey, look for major richard ayers. And well, she found him and brought it home to me, and that had to be at least 20 years after yeah, it was mid 80's that they put the wall up 82.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, I now, with the wonder of Google, have been able to find him myself online. Major Richard Ayers was a pilot. Have been able to find him myself online. Major Richard Ayers was a pilot, an Air Force pilot, and he was 37 years old when his plane disappeared into North Vietnam. It is presumed shot down. He was presumed dead. He was put on the wall in 82. But technically he's still missing in action, which gave me a very unpleasant feeling when I realized that today he was born in 1933, so he'd be what? Michael 90?, 91?
Speaker 1:91.
Speaker 2:He'd be 92 this year, but yeah, anyway, look him up. There's a beautifully handsome picture of him online. So for all of those we lost in Vietnam and for major Richard Ayers, please put a light on Mama.
Speaker 1:Put my guns in the ground. I can't shoot them anymore. That long black cloud is coming down. I feel I'm knocking on heaven's door, knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door, knock, knock, knock, heaven's door, knock, knock, knock, knock, heaven's door, knock, knock, knock and all heaven's door Ooh Ooh Ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh guitar solo Ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh.
