Altars & Creative Rituals: A Conversation with Llewellyn Skye

Daring Creatively: Unfiltered is an Australian art podcast where Sydney-based contemporary artist Korynn Morrison picks up the phone, drops a surprise topic into the conversation, and hits record.

In this episode Korynn calls Gold Coast-based contemporary Australian artist Llewellyn Skye (known simply as Skye) mid-way through her current solo exhibition Blood, Milk and Honey at Curatorial+Co in Sydney. The surprise topic: Alters and Creative Rituals.

Skye's studio is a living altar. Three walls dedicated to three energetic zones. Handmade ceramics, vintage dressers, natural-dyed fabric, inherited objects from the women in her matrilineal line, all of it feeding directly into one of the most spiritually charged and emotionally honest bodies of work she has ever made.

In this unfiltered conversation two artists talk about the courage it takes to step into a new creative evolution publicly, the altars Skye built in her studio and the releasing ritual she opened her exhibition with, pulling tarot cards mid-process, the women who follow her around the studio, how an overseas residency cracked something open that years of back-to-back shows never could, the psychic moment Korynn had walking into the exhibition for the first time, and what your 96 year old self would tell you right now.

This one will give you goosebumps. 

New episodes drop whenever the call happens.

LINKS:

• Skye's Instagram / website
• Blood, Milk and Honey at Curatorial+Co Sydney — on until May 9th
• Reference: Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés
• Reference: The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

My guest today is my incredible friend Llewellyn Skye, known simply as Skye, a contemporary Australian artist whose practice moves between painting, installation, and material exploration. Her work is driven by an intuitive physical engagement with process, where gesture, repetition, and the body become tools for uncovering meaning. Painting with her whole body, Skye creates works that hold energy, atmosphere, and emotional residue. Skye is a 2024 finalist in the King's School Art Prize and an exhibiting artist in the Here and Now Gold Coast Triennial. She's a 2021 recipient of both the Fenton and Fenton Rising Talent Award and the ALA Abstract Artist Award. She has held over 12 solo exhibitions across Australia. Now the surprise topic I gave Sky today was altars and creative rituals. And that was in direct response to her current solo show, Blood, Milk and Honey, which is currently showing at Curatorial in Coast Sydney until May 9th. So have a listen to the conversation. And if you can, go on in and see the work in the flesh. It was a really, really valuable experience for me, and I'm sure it will be for you too. Hey guys, welcome to Daring Creatively Unfiltered, where I call up an artist friend, throw a surprise topic into the conversation, and hit record. No plan, no prep, no agenda. Just two creatives having a chat. I'm Karin Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life. My guests are artists at every stage of the journey. And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear. So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us. This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered. Let's go. It does. Yeah, big congratulations, by the way, on your show. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Oh, thanks you. Um I feel good. I feel good. It was um, you know, a different process, a lot of different things um in that show. So yeah, you know, the I mean the anticipation for any show. But yeah, there's just so many cool new ways of thinking and approaching and doing. So I'm still kind of, I suppose there's a lot even for me after the show to go, well, it's still on. So during the show, but you know, once all the hardest work is done and it's up and you've got to walk out of there, um, yeah, it's just like, okay, how do I feel?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

You know, you gotta surrender to it, don't you? It's a I think it's an interesting. This is why I wanted to talk with you while your show was on, because I feel like 90% of time I'm talking to people right before their show or just after in that post-exhibition calm down phase. And so I feel like it's a very, it's kind of a different beast altogether when you're hovering right in the middle and you're surrendering to the fact that you're not in control anymore as to what happens, how the work's received. Um, and especially for you, I'm gonna get you to read that beautiful piece of writing that you wrote. But before that, I just want to acknowledge how much courage it actually takes for you to, you know, we're always growing and shifting our work and evolving our work. But I think there is something to say about when that new shift finally gets put on the wall, that it takes a lot of courage to go and really, really step into that new phase that you're walking into. And I felt like you did that with such grace the other night, that ritual that you began the show with. I thought that it was something that I really wanted to touch on today. And in way of our topic, and we can talk about my little psychic moment as well. I still can't believe that happened. I still cannot believe that happened. So I'll tell the story because I think I think I think it would be interesting that when people actually go and witness your work for the first time, whether they pick up on this too. So essentially, I can't remember the exact order that it all happened, but I managed to sneak into the the um the artist talk that you do with the girls from the gallery. And I specifically every single time I go to an opening, I make sure I read absolutely nothing about the work. Because what I love to do is I love to walk in and witness the work for the first time with really fresh eyes and not read into it and actually see what the work says before I start reading artist statements or anything like that. So I had not read anything about your show. I didn't even know how much of a beautiful shift and a beautiful evolution this new collection of work of yours truly is. So I had no idea what I was walking into. And as soon as I walked in the doors, there was like a word that landed with me. And that word was altar. Now, I said nothing up until the point that you were talking about things. And I, the question that I asked you was, I'm really curious to know whether you're the kind of person that sets up little altars in your studio. And with that, Sophie from Curatorial just kind of gave me this look and you gave me this look. And I was like, what? And Sophie's like, oh, Corinne, that's weird. You have no idea. And so can you explain to me what Sophie actually saw in your studio? Like, how did this how did this all come to be? Because it was just such a weird like thing that happened. I was like, well, that's what I'm picking up from the work. So explain to me how your studio was set up and what Sophie saw.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

It's like an out-of-body experience for her. Um well, I so this show um to me, I was thinking of three zones under one umbrella kind of thing. And so I they they're all married together, but I was approaching them with their own palettes and kind of their own energies. So I set up three walls of my studio, which has got four walls, um, and one was dedicated to one zone, for want of a better word. Um, which it's blood, milk, and honey. So, you know, for one zone, and then each wall represented the other. And it was a collection of and still is on those studio walls, a lot of writing on the studio walls, a lot of um, you know, thoughts and notes and ideas and prompts and um objects that I have in the studio that I've collected, that I've made, um, even things like towels that I'd use in my, you know, to wipe paint off were kind of growing in these altars. And so I know, and I had like yeah, like physical altars. So um, so say for instance, the milk zone is this secondhand vintage, you know, dresser with drawers that I got and I love. And the lady, um, when I bought it off her, she told me it was her mother's, and it was amazing. And I'd repainted it and it was my altar, and I had this, you know, studio drop sheet on there, and I had ceramics that I've just started to make, and all these things, and flowers, and then behind it on the wall were all these words, and so that times three, and you know, it's you know, not a tiny studio, but it's not a warehouse or anything. So when you walk in, you're in. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, and and I had my beautiful chairs in the middle, and I'd planned them because I really wanted so to, I knew that you know, she's wasn't here all day. So I kind of placed the chairs that she could just sit and kind of reflect and be in that zone and look at that. And then I mean, I didn't make her jump to the other chairs. She was walking around. She's like, What is this? I've never walked into an artist doing this before to this extent. And um, and then the other one faced one more than the other one. And when I would go in and and paint, that's how I would approach it. I was like, right, where am I today? And I'm, you know, channeling milk. What does that mean to me? How do I feel? And I would get all those works out, and the other ones would, you know, come back into the other part of my studio, it would be turned around. And I just wanted to channel that energy, and that just kept going and kept going as I created the show. So that was the thing. She walked into like mega altars.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Oh my God. And so altars. I knew absolutely nothing of this. And I will preface to say that like when I look at the work, there I don't know, there's nothing specifically in the work that makes you think, oh, this is, you know, altar. And yet it was a word that I walked through the doors and it kind of dropped into me like this little download. And then the other thing that I said to you, I said, I'm curious, have you read that book, Women That Run with the Wolves? And again, I still had read nothing of your artist statement. And then um, I think it was Victoria Wilson just said, Oh, that's weird. She just gave me that book as a reference to read. And I am such a fan of this book. I have been gifting it to every female in my life. My daughter will be read this book at some stage when I think it's appropriate, but she too will be gifted this book. And I think that the way you are approaching these female archetypes in your work, I think it's incredibly, incredibly powerful. And I would, I would really love for you to firstly, if I can throw you out of your comfort zone completely. Can I get you to read that beautiful piece of writing that is um accompanying your exhibition? Because every single time I read it, it brings tears to my eyes and it gives me absolute goosebumps because I think that it embodies every single thing that females in particular need to um come back to remembering. So do you have the do you have the piece of paper there? Do you want to read it?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

I have it here. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, I won't say anything about it. I'll just read it. Okay. And then we can chat. Everything feels playful when we're here. Remember when we thought there was no sunshine? And somehow something in us pulled light from nowhere, made the most incredible rainbow. Hold on to those moments. The ones where we walk into the unknown and laugh until we're in tears. The kind that hurt your belly, the kind that feel like freedom. We are so wild, so naive. We have such a life force. Destructive wind, chaotic power, truth, feeling, everything we need. No fear, just knowing, just fire. Our magic, it's magnetic, it's necessary. As wisdom keepers, our sacred steady knowing rises with the tides, powers like the wind, moves to the rhythm of the body. We carry it with grace. The hum of the earth moves through us, the center, to breath, to ourselves. We bleed, we transform. Tender and strong, knowing and becoming, embodied and contained, a fierce instinct beyond word. Our comfort holds us in place longer than where we're meant to stay, than when we are still meant to burn, to be held or released.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Oh, ooh, I get goosebumps every single time. And I've read it multiple times. And in actual fact, I have had this piece of paper along with the piece of material from your ritual. I have it in my hair now, and at the end of the day, so what I've been doing is I've been wearing it somewhere on me through the day in the studio, and then I've been placing it on my own art altar that I have like a little, I have a little coffee table that's got like all my tarot cards and my crystals and my palasanto and a beautiful candle, and I've been resting it on my altar at the end of each day. And um so I wanted to ask you, would you be able to explain that beautiful ritual that all the females did at the beginning of the opening of your show? Because I feel like um it was an experience. Like it's like I go to so many openings, right? And I just think that that was such a beautiful way of centering the entire exhibition and making everyone come into it with um with a very grounded presence. And not only that, but what you did through that ritual was you enabled us to then be able to witness ourselves in your work. And I just thought it was so powerful. Can you explain that ritual?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Oh, I love that. Um yeah, I wanted to do something before this show. Um, you know, it it's very feminine-based and which my work often is, um, but yeah, I really wanted to make it a special moment for women to kind of like a blessing. It kind of you know, so many words went through my mind, and obviously you've got to be, you know, very aware of what we call things. So it changed a few times to gathering, to ritual, to all sorts of things. Um, because it touches also on so many things in history that there's too many, like it's so laid. But um, yeah, so I I knew I wanted it to be personal and really intimate and also really gentle, not forced or contrived or a performance. Uh so yeah, and so um part of this body of work has involved me moving into other materials and mediums and things, and you know, clay. I've been playing with clay again and um dyeing fabric. So a big sheet that is secondhand again, so it's got all this energy, and it had been in my studio and used, you know, as a drop sheet and to wipe things and I'd ripped things off and all sorts of um moments and energies, and then I played around with natural dyes, which I've not done before. So I had all these pockets and I was soaking them and pulling it out. So I created in the meantime for the exhibition, I flew down to Sydney and um with the help of a beautiful friend of mine, thank goodness, she helped me that day, constructed um a fresh flower altar, if you like.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

And it was hanging from the ceiling. So um, so it was it was like it was levitating. So whilst it was hanging from the ceiling, the the flowers themselves were kind of hovering in the center of the room above this, what would you call it? An altar?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, it's like, well, it's a plinth, right? And you know, trying to work out what to use. And I'm thinking uh uh other things, because I hadn't had a plinth in my studio. I'd been using other objects. Um, but it just felt right. This plant was low to the ground, and on it were personal ceramics, um, a little sculpture I'd made of the figure, female figure, um, new ceramics I'd made that I'd written on um, you know, dried flowers that have been into my in my studio. So this little gathering of all these energies, and then these flowers, fresh flowers suspended over it with this tension of releasing. And that's what and like the end of I call it my letter that's that I just read. Um, like the end of the letter, you know, as we transform and go through these different energies and moments through our lives, through the month, through the week, through the day, through the hour, you know, we're so we're magical beings. Um it's a constant thing of what we hold on to and what we release, and also learning and acknowledging that because sometimes we feel like we we're holding on to a lot, you know, and and we feel like we need to hold on to things, but to grow and change and transform, we also need to release. And even just saying that word, my body kind of relaxed absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

What can I ask you in in this releasing? So part of what we had to do was we had to tear off part of this beautiful material that you had. And we had the opportunity to tie the material in whatever way we felt um was resonant to us. We had the opportunity to tie this material onto part of the altar, onto the flowers. And so I'm curious to know. I what I released when I tied my piece onto your beautiful um flower was I released creative guilt. And I think that um for many artists, but I think in particular for female creatives that carry the responsibility of parenting, of also being um the support network for a lot of people in our lives. I think at times um we can operate in the world from this place where we feel like we're almost not allowed to fully surrender to the joy of our creative pursuits. Or if we are surrendering to that joy, we then have this little part of us that often looks over our shoulder at all the people surrounding us, whether it be family or our partners or our siblings or whatnot. And we we have this little part that looks over our shoulder and goes, oh, well, there's so much hardship. Like that that this person's struggling, look at what's happening in the world, look at all of these things, look at that person, they're really busy, they're really stressed. And it's almost like this thing where we then hold back our own creative joy for the purpose of just meeting everyone else where they're at, or not making other people feel, you know, bad that we're living our beautiful creative lives, if you know what I mean. And I was curious to know because the one thing I didn't get to ask you at the exhibition was what did you have to release in order to have the courage to produce this new work, to, you know, to create something that was just so authentic to you? What did you have to release in this process?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

That's such a good question. Um I suppose when I look back on the process, which for me was a year and a half, um, because it wasn't just making the work, it was going away um on a residency and coming back, and then a lot of research, writing, thinking, doing paintings over and over, like so many things. Um so I feel like I suppose. Um releasing what would I say not old habits and well kind of I suppose like maybe habits and comfort you know like you know when you're kind of exploring your territory and I it's so much easier if I just you know didn't learn this stuff or or became in become interested in this because I could just keep doing what I'm usually do, you know? Um so I guess yeah so I guess it's releasing that safety zone and the known. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Well, this this brings me to my actual um surprise topic for you. So I was originally just gonna give you the topic of altars because I was really curious about how you create those rituals within your studio practice. And the more I thought about the topic, the more I thought about, well, it's not just about the altar itself, it's actually about the creative rituals that we form in our lives and how we can use these things as a way of stepping into our own personal power. And I think after speaking to you at the exhibition, that's what I kind of walked away with. I walked away with this perspective in what I saw in you was you really acknowledging your own personal power. And so I was curious to know about not only the altars for this exhibition, but how creative rituals have helped you step into this version of yourself. Because I think for for most creatives, there are so many iterations of us. It's like every single exhibition or every new collection of work, we inevitably have to peel back another layer of the onion, which is ourselves. And you cannot separate your life from your art. And I have come to realize that in ritualizing your life as a creative practice, um, inevitably everything becomes a work of art. So I was actually quite curious to hear more about your own personal creative rituals and how they fit into your life and how they feed into your work.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Okay. Um Wow, there have been many. So I'm well, first of all, I'm I feel so fortunate because my studio my husband might not, but my studio is our old bedroom. And I kicked us out of the bedroom and pushed us into the room next to the bedroom. And so I come out or we come out or you know, out of the bedroom, and I have to walk through my studio just to even get to the our clothes or the bathroom or downstairs. So it's under, you know, avoided. So I feel like that, and that's been for the last couple of years, so not for a long, long time, but enough time that I just love it so much. And so the first thing that I kind of hit is my studio, and the last thing I leave is my studio before I go to bed. Ooh, and yeah, and I've never thought about it, but I guess that has really been uh well, it is a huge part of of my life and my practice and the way I live daily. And but like I said, I haven't really given it much thought. Um so I'm constantly engaged in this world.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

And that's interesting. You don't see you don't you don't navigate the the taking the artist hat off because it's all essentially connected. Even when you have what happens if the work is in that really annoying place that you you well you would have to turn things against the wall all the time or you'd go nuts.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Totally. Yes, and oh like when it was our bedroom, especially when you're making a show, I used to have like all these paintings lined up against the bed. You couldn't even get into the bed, and they're large works, so they were like a wall, right? Like a little castle I thought or something, all the walls, all the bed, and then we, you know, it was bedtime, so I'd have to move them all out, and then we go to bed, and then in the morning I pull them back. Whereas now, um, you know, I shuffle them around. But yeah, that in-between stage, it's funny. I'm learning to embrace this this body of work. I'm really learning to kind of relax a bit into that stuff and let things merge more than I ever have. So, you know, those those middle parts sometimes, you know, the painting's telling us we're not, I'm not dictating the painting so much now. So before something would start to merge, I'm like, oh, it's a face. You know, when things start to come, and I would paint it out. I'd be like, oh no, no, no, I'll gotta get rid of that. I can't see anything else but that face. But now I'm like, oh, like it's a face. Who are you? What do you want to, you know? What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

So um, I guess that I've been at peace with well, not always, just me. Um, and there have been many, many in-between shifts, many for this show. Um, so yeah, there's all those tricky things. But another part of um my ritual of creating and um specifically again for this body of work is yeah, pulling cards. I haven't done that for my work before. And it you you do.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I I do as a so I usually do a card. So my ritual when I come into the studio, because my studio is separate from the house, which is a very good thing for me, my personality. I need a little bit of distance, otherwise, I just would never, ever, ever switch off. Um, but I have a beautiful couch that we got off Marketplace for like $250. It's this like corner red leather lounge. It always has a comfy blanket on it. Um, and I have my coffee table with my cards. And so the first thing that I do when I come in, I light Palo Santo or my candle, I'll pick a deck and I'll pull a card. And I'll use that as kind of like the energetic point for the day, or I will use it as kind of like a prompt to start my journaling. And I'll do the three pages, just like in Julia Cameron's The Artist Wait, um, the automatic writing. So I'll do three pages of automatic writing. Sometimes I'll hold that prompt from the card, or you know, there'll be something about it, whether it be the picture or something else that's happened in the week that it connects to, and I'll just riff off that. And inevitably in the journaling process, I essentially use that as a way of clearing the clutter in my head. Because if I don't, and I I notice straight away, if there's that little buzzy part in me, which is often there, because you know, I think there's to an extent some undiagnosed ADD going on here. Um but we're here for it. We're here for it. We're here, we're surrendering to all of it. Um, but I think if I don't get rid of the buzziness, I find myself um quite ungrounded in the studio. So I need to release all of that. And then I feel like I walk in and I'm present with the work instead of present to whatever else is going on in my head. And that's just something that I've had to learn how to do over, you know. I think I've been doing this same ritual probably for, I don't know, probably eight years now, every single day. So um, yeah, but like it, how do you start your day? Like, how do the cards come into things for you?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Well, first of all, I admire your commitment to that. Um, because I agree, and I'm sure everyone does, when you sit down and you do that and you get those three pages, and you've got to feel those three pages regardless of what it is. Um, or even just writing, you know, dumping brain dump, you do feel better. And it's something that I know I need to do it, and all that stuff, and you get busy and you don't so well done. That's a a huge commitment to do it for that long. So I'm very inspired by you.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

I've had to do my daughter too. Part of it do it with you. Well, part of it is is helping her understand boundaries as well. Like I'm a big big promoter of generating personal boundaries for yourself. And I think if I model that for her, like she knows when I wake up of a morning that I have my coffee before I do anything. I have my coffee, I sit, I let some sun get on my face. And so even that simple ritual, it's just it's it's giving her permission to actually choose herself too of a morning. Um, so I think modeling that for our kids is really important too. But yes, as you are, as you as you were.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Well, I suppose if if any of my rituals for my kids is it like I slide the door across the top of the stairs, it's like physically I am here and you are there. Yeah. But um, yeah, so with the cards, um, I, you know, have this her inherited box of things, boxes of objects and things from my mom and her mom and her mum and her mum. And and my auntie, and I've got this little trolley, and because they've all passed, and I've got this little vintage drinks trolley that I'd bought on Marketplace as well, like ages ago, and it's on wheels, and I have it's like got mirrors on it, and I have their little objects and these cards, and like I talk to them a lot. Sounds crazy, but you know, all the signs, it's and I think I mentioned it too. Like, there are a lot of women in my studio. I really I've always felt very connected to them, but for this show, like they're just like, okay, girls, like hang on, just let me get the work done, you know. Yeah, um it's yeah, and so with the cards, um it's kind of no rhyme or reason. Sometimes I'll do it more often and sometimes not for a while, and no particular time of day, but it's when I'm feeling it, and it's like, all right, come on, what what do we like help me here? Or you know, you've got something on your mind, and I'll pull it, and yeah, it's it's really fun and interesting, and you know, it's so good. Sometimes you're like, yeah, like there was this one particular time, and it really got me off that chair, and I was so motivated by this one card, it just really resonated with me perfectly at that time. And then other times, um, because I have researched and written and read and just kind of sat for longer than I ever had, because I've had time and the luxury to do that. Um, it kept saying, I kept pulling it, saying, get out of your head. And I'm like, oh. And even at one point, I'm like, if if you if you give me the card again about get out of my head, like I'm you know, and sure enough, I pulled it and I was like, oh, I just throw the cards here.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

They never lie. They never lie. And they're they're either a good slap in the face, or do you know what? Um it was interesting, like last week when I was pulling cards for myself, that exact thing happened. It was like the same card over and over and over again. It's like you can't make this stuff up. Like it would have been the like it would have been impossible to pull that same card multiple times, and yet it came out three different times across the week. And I'm like, okay, I really need to sit with whatever this is and listen, stop ignoring it. But I think that this is the thing about having the the many women in your studio, like I often um, I often have this little, you know, feeling in the studio. I don't ever feel like I'm alone in the studio. And it's like, I think that there, and I've had this conversation with multiple people about, you know, where inspiration comes from and how people navigate this, you know, like because I think really when it comes down to it, if we really think about like it it's so not just us. We're not generating every single idea. They come in and then we choose to grab onto them and run with them, or we choose to put them aside. And then inevitably, whatever is supposed to stick, whatever is supposed to come out in the work, it will nudge us, it will poke at us, it will annoy the living crap out of us until we do something with it. Do you agree with that? Does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, and and how often, like, do you like and it's so amazing when it happens, and it's it is often when you're in that zone, you know, they call it the zone, like whatever it is, everyone calls it the zone, and then you kind of step back and you're like, I don't know where that all came from, you know, the painting, like I can't explain and I can't tell you. But it kind of came from somewhere, like it's weird, it's kind of not in your control. You are, and you're obviously making the decisions, and you're just kind of you're doing it. It's not some kind of poltergeisty thing, but it's definitely from there are other yeah, weird energies, powers involved. That real like a portal, we're portals.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

We are, and I think this is why your um your current exhibition, and I highly encourage people to read your artist's statement, and I will do like a little bio and and whatnot at the start of this episode when I um record things properly. By the way, your bio is so huge. You have done so many amazing things. Um, but what I was really curious about was your recent um travels, because you mentioned in talking about this current exhibition how pivotal that was to have space away from your work in order for you to basically come back to yourself and sit for long periods of time and get back into the writing component. How did that affect this show?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Oh, hugely, and and me and everything. Um, yeah, so um having time away in the overseas residency, um, and you know, away from daily responsibilities, which with three kids and a husband and work and blah, blah, blah. There are many, like all of us. Um, but also my practice for many years has been show after show after show after show. So, you know, the busyness of life in between those deadlines doesn't allow for long periods of reflection. Like, you know, we're making work, we're obviously always sitting and reflecting and thinking that's part of the process, but the really deep stuff that kind of starts to bubble up. Like I said, I'm gonna get to your back, or you know, you just kind of give it time and then it's like, okay, all right. And so that leads you to here and there, and just kind of keeps going. So yeah, having that time to really do that, I realized how much my practice, you know, didn't allow for that. And it was nobody's fault, it was just the time constraint. Um, and I realized how important it is and how much I love it and value it. So now that yeah, and that's definitely become a part of my daily practice of not only just um, like I said, not taking the time to sit and do the journal pages like yourself, but constantly just oh, I've got visual diaries everywhere, and they're in no order at all. You know, or or even my studio wall, like just writing these things down and connecting, you know, these thoughts with with the hand. And you know what it's you know what it's like. You start to write and something else happens, and all these, it just that leads to that, and it goes deeper and deeper, and next thing you know, you think you're interested in um just say, you know, cups of tea, and then you sit down, start writing, go, oh, actually, it's not the tea, it's this memory. And then that leads to this feeling and that smell that I used to have when I sat with my mother, you know, it's amazing.

unknown 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Giving yourself a space to do that.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Yes, and I think this is what comes back to again, like this concept of ritual and how we can reintroduce ritual back into our lives. Because if you think back to, you know, right back at the beginning, that's what life was about for many people. Every culture has their rituals, their things that they do as a way of waking up, of expanding themselves. And I think, you know, in this very Western world that we live in, who, you know, we are so obsessed with getting to that next goalpost. We're obsessed with getting to the end result. And one thing that I'm constantly saying to my clients, as I'm sure you do as well with your coaching clients, is hold up. It it's not about the completion of this work. You know, the work will be complete when it's ready to be complete. But how how do we enter? How do we enter into this creative space? What is the energy that you are bringing to your studio? Are you awake or are you just chasing the completion? Because if you're just chasing the completion all the time or chasing the next exhibition all the time, you're missing the entire point of creating. And it's like sometimes it's such a simple thing to just remember that art is fun. Why did we all start creating? We started creating because for some reason the creative pursuit had us feel connected again. When so many other aspects of life are completely disconnected, they are bringing us further away from ourselves, not closer towards ourselves. And I just think that ritual is something that it might be something so simple as waking up in the morning and before you pick up your phone or you get stuck into your work, you actually sit on your lounge with your cup of tea or coffee and you feel your feet on the ground. That's a ritual, right? But I I am constantly encouraging people to have a look at the way that they enter into creativity. Not once they're there and they're in the flow. How do you enter into it? How do you start that process? Like, have you found that for you, because I mean, I'm a mum too, I get the chaos. The chaos is inevitable. And there's no way to kind of remove it completely. You just kind of have to flow with it like a river, right? And yet, we still need to somehow center ourselves um within our own sacred creative space, even amongst the chaos. And I'm curious to know because your studio is so in amongst your life, how how do you enter into that creative zone, apart from pulling that gate across that says, Mummy is here, but I am not available right now.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah, which they just come and open it, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Um I would think, because I did it before, it's kind of a bit like a deep breath or a smile and just like my happy space, you know? And it's just like okay. And and one thing that I think uh motherhood teaches us is you know, sometimes it we will only get 20 minutes, and sometimes we will have ours and it can ch there's you know you're running around after them and so you think you just get very good at being able to switch into that zone very like easily I think um because we're kind of forced to because we know that we're gonna be pulled away at any time um and for however you know the length of time. So I find that motherhood taught me to be quite productive for want of a better word but really to be able to just kind of go right free come back where are we?

SPEAKER_02 44:38

You know we're here we're here now um quite naturally yes yeah no I resonate with that as well I don't think I've ever been so productive in my entire life I think kids make you so productive they make you really value the time that you have don't you don't they yeah it's amazing what you can get done in 10 minutes. Oh totally totally 100% 100% and I guess like when you when you look at the work for this current show that's now hanging on the wall uh I'm curious to know if you know the rituals that you created with those altars the the women that follow you around the studio whispering in your ear I'm curious if at this stage midway through the show what is the feeling that you get when you look at your work on the wall well actually when I walked in um well and it's interesting because my shows are often interstate so you know I I walk in I miss you know the bump in sometimes I'm there and able to be a part of it but often I'll miss it so I kind of walk in and it's like you know it's it's obviously so different to see you work out out of the studio um and and take on another life which is what's meant to happen it has its own life now um so that so that initial like wow it just feels they they felt like a real presence actually more than I expected so that was really interesting and and great and just kind of looking around and going and they're they are here like I know that sounds weird but they're kind of these creations that it's like right we're ready we're definitely anchored to something um stronger so that's how I that's how I feel and I feel connected.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

I always feel very connected to my works and you know I remember them fondly and we're you know and if you know sometimes we are privileged to know where they move on to um sometimes we're not and so I never forget them and the moments that you feel while you're creating them and all of those that's the um it's been day oh that's okay I can't hear it I can't hear it at all. Oh god um so yeah so just you just I feel very connected to them but I also feel like they're grown up now they're ready to be released and that that was part of my ritual down there is the release of the works and the releasing of of the show.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

And what a gift and what a gift the show has been right from the very beginning with that um with the beautiful ritual and I like I just I want to acknowledge um just how beautiful it was for you to welcome people into that part of the exhibition and make everyone a part of it. And in finishing up today I I just wanted to actually come back to this um this one thing that I got when I was talking to you is that you know you are such a beautiful humble person despite all of the wonderful things you have done and your gigantic bio of which you're gonna need to shorten for me and pick out a few key things because there's just so many amazing things that you've done. But I think in moving forward so at the completion of this show I want to know about the version of you that you're now stepping into you've been through obviously many phases of life your kids are now starting to grow up your kids are a bit older than my daughter and I would like to actually know from you what lesson would you have for me being that I am slightly younger than you probably not much younger but what with all of this wisdom you've had in the industry what advice would you give me moving forward into this next phase of womanhood, motherhood, creative life? What gem could you leave me with and probably many other women who are probably at this similar phase to me where our kids have just gone off to school. So I'm at this phase where I'm watching my daughter um fully her assert her independence and you know she's starting to reach that phase where she's like Mom you can wait outside the school gate now so now that she's turned seven I'm not allowed to walk inside the school now I have to wait outside the gate and I'm like just like that. I love it I'm like okay I don't know whether I'm I'm ready for you to just you know not need me anymore. And then equally I find that life always mirrors in your art because I feel like there is again growing pains within my creative practice too with new momentum and almost my work stepping into its own independence too. I've always found it fascinating how the work kind of mimics what's going on in your life.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

But yeah what advice would you have okay well two things come to mind um first the main thing is to never let go of your dream ever or your passion ever. And you would hear this speaking to artists and and people that you're coaching all different people unfortunately I have you know with teaching over the years heard of way too many women say I always wanted to be an artist but I basically put every put on the back burner to do everything else and now I'm coming back to it. So I would I would want people to always hold on to it what in whatever capacity that is. If that is just one little one minute a day if you can but it's so like if we're born with this drive and passion um I feel we need it in a what like a survival thing as well. So never let go and just fight adversity and you know always be yourself you know that's one huge thing.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

But another little thing when I was in Sydney a friend girlfriend of mine not an artist um came to my show she was there um but one thing she said to me which I've since even talked about this morning with some coaching is um um another woman said to her what would your 96 year old self tell you how good is that yeah and she asked me and I said I think she would say to be braver to be braver yeah that's good that's that's a very resonant piece of feedback to you you know what I actually had a really interesting conversation with a an artist friend of mine the other day and um you know it was so interesting she is actually going through this phase of intense momentum like so many opportunities coming from left right and center and she was essentially coming to me and saying I I don't know how to hold this I don't know how to feel about it I I and she was almost you know I could get in the conversation I went just hold up stop it stop it and and she's like stop what I'm like stop making yourself small I said stop it I said you need to step into that and I said it's scary they're growing pains that's fine I said but you are never going to be given something that you can't handle. I'm a firm believer in that and I said this is you know the universe's way of having you step up to the plate and actually acknowledge all of this incredible power that you have and I think that particularly as females it is really quite scary to acknowledge how powerful we are and I think I think that's what I would say that's what I would say the 96 year old version of me I would say step up to the power don't play small don't play small and I feel like it's something that you you know you you're pushing people you know when you're you're coaching people you can only you can only kind of nudge them as far as they're willing to to move themselves you can't force them up the mountain you can see the potential you can see everything that could potentially be ahead of them and yet it always comes down to the self-belief that we we have in ourselves and um this is where I think your show in particular moved me so much because I think that that's what it is. It's an acknowledgement of personal power it's an acknowledgement of authenticity and like I said to you on the night of the exhibition what you are actually doing with your show is you are actually getting us to acknowledge not just the good not just the bad you're actually forcing people to see all of it and feel all of it and actually acknowledge that when when we are capable of sitting in that in the chaos in the in the good in the bad in the in the really hard when we get really good at acknowledging all of it and embracing it as our own power well then you know it's inevitable that something miraculous is going to happen. And what is miraculous is what has happened with your show. So I just want to say thank you so much for um taking the time to jump on with me. And what I will do is I will put all of the details in the show notes and um I'll do a nice little intro for you and everything as well. The work is beautiful you should be so so so proud of it. It certainly moved me as I'm sure it's going to move many other people the exhibition's on until the 9th of May isn't it it is yes it definitely is two days after my birthday which is nice of the birthday and then it closes you a Taurus as well I am are you a Taurus oh no but do you know what this is weird right so all of the people that become the closest with me all my closest friends they're all Tauruses so apparently Aries and Taurus always get along really well. I'm an Aries but my daughter is a Taurus as well and so and funnily enough my daughter and I we do you know we don't butt heads very often she's I you know I catch myself in thinking oh god she's an easy kid and then inevitably something will happen and I'll be like oh god said that um but no no that makes a lot of sense we get each other we get each other we do um thank you so much for taking the time and um yeah I'll shoot you through my my email and all of that you can send me a nice headshot and all of that sort of stuff and all of the things I'm gonna quickly get this up as soon as possible. I'm gonna schedule it to go out next week so there'll still be plenty of time for people to go and see your show. Okay thank you so much for inviting me it's been such an honour I am like in awe of you're an inspiration and thank you this has been really beautiful yes absolutely the first of many don't don't you worry I'll I'll be I'll be calling you up now going hey going through this phase help us out yep love it love it anytime absolutely will you have a good rest of your day and um yeah good luck with the rest of the show although you need absolutely no luck whatsoever the work is stunning speaks for itself and I highly encourage every single person to go and witness this work in the flesh.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Thank you so much your book have a good one see you