Daring Creatively: Unfiltered
Daring Creatively: Unfiltered is an Australian art podcast about the real, messy, beautiful side of the creative life. Each episode, Sydney-based artist Korynn Morrison picks up the phone and calls an artist friend. No script, no agenda, just a surprise topic to get the conversation going. What follows is raw, honest, unplanned talk about the artist's journey: creative blocks, inspiration, self-doubt, studio life, and everything in between. If you're an artist, maker, or creative soul who's tired of polished highlight reels and wants real conversations about what it actually feels like to live a creative life, you've found your podcast.
New episodes drop whenever the call happens.
Daring Creatively: Unfiltered
Talya Brookman on Painting, Process & Backing Yourself
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Daring Creatively: Unfiltered is an Australian art podcast where Sydney-based contemporary artist Korynn Morrison picks up the phone, drops a surprise topic into the conversation, and hits record.
In this episode Korynn calls British abstract painter Talya Brookman, based in Sydney. Raised between London, Los Angeles and Australia, Talya's practice is shaped by a lifelong negotiation between movement and stability, and a deep sensitivity to how place is internalised and carried.
In this honest, unplanned conversation two artists talk about battling a painting mid-show and knowing when to stop, the solitude of studio life and how to balance it, going viral on Instagram and what that actually means for an artist, working across large scale abstract canvases in a small studio space, celebrating other artists without competition, the untethered feeling of growing up across multiple countries and how that shaped the work, and why backing yourself is the most important thing you can do.
Talya's solo exhibition Inner Grounds is showing at CBD Gallery in Sydney from May 21st to June 13th, go and see it in person if you can.
If you love art podcasts, conversations about the creative process, or the real behind the scenes life of a working Australian artist, this one is for you.
New episodes drop whenever the call happens.
Talya Brookman Relevant Links:
Talya's website HERE.
Check her out on Instagram HERE.
Join My Inner Circle: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/mailing-list
Visit My Website: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/
Find me on Instagram HERE
Okay, okay. So before I fully introduce my guest today, who is the incredible Talia Brooklyn, I'm gonna get in here early and just say she is quite possibly the most humble and self-confessed introverted artist that I've spoken to so far. But don't let this fool you. And the reason I wanted to begin this podcast today by shouting from the mountaintop, you go girl, is because this girl, her career is absolutely booming. Now, we had this conversation, right? Which was the one that you're going to hear soon. That was all recorded. But what proceeded after that conversation was yet another phone call that we both had that went for probably another 40 minutes. Which was all about how to hold success. How is it that when we are really succeeding in our practice, how do we begin to hold all of that? And so I know that she is not the kind of girl that would ever brag about her success. But I am going to do that for her right now. So, raised between London and Los Angeles and Australia, her practice is shaped by a constant negotiation between movement and stability and a deep sensibility to how place is internalised and carried. Working with oil and ink on canvas, she builds layered surfaces through gesture and wash, allowing forms to surface and dissolve at the edge of recognition. Talia studied at the Pratt Institute of Fine Art in New York and returned to Sydney in 2009. In 2025, her painting Tether received the People's Choice Award at the Fisher's Ghost Art Prize, which is actually how we met. Her current solo show, Inner Grounds, is currently showing at CBD Gallery in Sydney from the 21st of May to the 13th of June. Now, all I want to say is you go girl. She is an inspiration to me, and she is going to be an inspiration to so many of you. And all I can say is watch this space. Let's dive in. Hey guys, welcome to Daring Creatively Unfiltered, where I call up an artist friend, throw a surprise topic into the conversation, and hit record. No plan, no prep, no agenda, just two creatives having a chat. I'm Corinne Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life. My guests are artists at every stage of the journey. And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear. So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us. This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered. Let's go. Ah, there we go. Now we're recording. There's the beep. How are you?
SPEAKER_01Uh, honestly, good having having a bit of a day in the studio, but it's all you know, it's all part of it. You know, there's those pieces every now and then that you kind of have like a proper battle with. And it's like it's like you've got something to prove with it, like I can get out of this mess if I just keep kind of tackling. Yeah. And it's we're on the fence. I don't know if we're we're winning yet, but we're gonna keep trying. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00I get that. I understand that so well. And it's like you can't you you leave the day before and you feel like you're on top of the world. You're like, I'm good at what I do, and then you come back the day later and you're like, oh wait, no, no, no, this needs a huge change. And then you then you're you're thrown, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, I I don't know if you do this. I always sort of take photos of my pieces throughout the process of of painting, and then also definitely before I clock off, I need to kind of see what it looks like and I kind of refer back to it. So I kind of got a plan the next day.
SPEAKER_00Um yes, I'm exactly the same. But do you know the other thing that I do? So if I'm really not sure about something, I move the panel to a location where right as I walk in, so it's like I get a first glance look at it, like a fresh look. And so sometimes for me, if and I do, I I do admit, I take the obsessive photos and then I analyze it in bed before I go to sleep, and then inevitably I chew on what I'm gonna do and I don't sleep well. Um, so I I do go through those phases as well. But I think at a certain point when you've been in that sticky tension resistant point with it, sometimes you gotta just surrender to the fact that you don't know where it's gonna go. And then I move it to a spot in the studio where I'll have a couple of days out of the studio, and when I first walk in, it's the first thing that I see.
SPEAKER_01I like that idea. Yeah. But you've got quite a big studio, don't you? Yeah. Mine, I've only got a couple of really sort of good usable walls in here. So it's like I kind of can't help but seeing it smack bang on my face when I walk in. Yeah. I do, I do like, I like that idea in theory. I I did something the other day where I was taking a photograph of one of the pieces um outside. And I I kind of don't usually do that, but I think that certain days, like you just don't have very good lighting, it's hard to convey, you know, what what the piece is actually doing. So I dragged it outside and it looked totally, totally different from how it does in the studio. Yeah. And I was kind of thinking that also might be a good thing to do from now on, just to kind of drag it outside and just kind of get a very fresh set of eyes on the thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you're working so big as well. So if you're in a small space and you're working quite large, sometimes that's a really challenging um position to be in. Like, do you have enough room to kind of step back enough?
SPEAKER_01I I do have room for stepping back, um, but I don't really have much room to be working on um I mean I can sometimes work on two pieces simultaneously, but anything more than that would just not be possible. Um I I am I'm I'm trying to get myself into a bigger studio. Um, so that's definitely on the agenda for the next few months. But for now, I just kind of just do do my best. I'm definitely taking up like every possible inch of of the space right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And as works are being completed, because you're you're about to have a show. When when are the dates for the show?
SPEAKER_01So the opening is on the 21st of May. Um, although I think there might be a preview the day before.
SPEAKER_00And that's at CBD, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, C B D Gallery in Sydney. It's on Erskine Street, the city. And the show runs until June 13th. Fantastic. Mmm, so yeah, very, very excited. But you're right, that's another that's another thing, is I've got a lot of work that's kind of stockpiled in here right now for the show.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh so it just kind of makes it that much tighter to actually maneuver in here.
SPEAKER_00But and are you um do you is it one of those things that you're just kind of dropping it off and they curate it, or is it a thing that you have an idea of the the curation of the show?
SPEAKER_01Well, I probably have more pieces uh ready to go than will actually be able to fit on the walls. So I do think that we'll be leaving it until the last minute. I think I'll bring everything to the gallery and then we'll kind of work it all out from there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um there's also uh question, when when's when's this when's the podcast airing?
SPEAKER_00Um, what I'll try and do is I will try and get it out before your um exhibition so it can c coincide and I'll help you try and filter some people there too. Um so what I will do is I'll make sure I get all the correct details. I'll put them all in the show notes and I'll schedule it to go out beforehand. So that's why I was like, oh, I better give you a call this week because it's gonna come around like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I feel it. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. How's the process been? Like, how long have you been um working on the work for this particular show? And um, is there like a specific theme? Because what I tend to do when I'm speaking to be, I mean, I obviously know your work quite well, but it might be nice if you explain the kind of work that you're doing and where you're hoping this show to kind of carry people, if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay. Um so the work that I do, it's all very large, abstract. I suppose they are some form of landscape, although it's not so much in a literal sense. Um when I imagine these forms, it's either looking through or from above, um, or kind of being immersed in some sort of imagined space.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, I can see that a hundred percent. That's what that's what I thought of your your work. And I I have specifically, and this is one of those things. I I mean, some people need to read in to the artist statement and everything like that. When I want to go and experience work, I actually don't want to know anything about it first. I want to go and see the work at face value and feel what I feel from the work. And I feel like in looking at every single thing you've been doing, they are so they're atmospheric, but they're grounded at the same time. And there's almost a fluidity to the forms as well.
SPEAKER_01I love it that you see that. I I always wonder kind of how the work comes across because for me, I know what my intention is and I know what I'm compelled to be expressing on Canvas, but you never really know how it comes across. Um but yeah, there's there's always that balance where I want there to be a sense of atmosphere, but I also am not looking to create something that's solely atmospheric. You know, it's trying to get the right balance of uh soft and hard lines and edges and sort of forms coming to the forefront and some receding backwards. I want there to be a sense of gravity with with the pieces. Um so there's there's usually sort of a definitive light source coming from somewhere. Um but it's it's hard to explain. I mean, it's quite immersive. Um, there's never any sort of intention when I start a piece.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's interesting. So they're quite intuitive. So it's it's like a building up of well, I've watched your videos, and by the way, you your videos are incredible. And man, do you get good traction on social media?
SPEAKER_01It's it's a pretty recent thing. Um I think that it was in January. I had, I suppose, I think it's it started with a video where I sort of shared it and a couple of accounts in the States sort of picked it up and started sharing it. And then from there there was a bit of a snowball where it just kind of went a little, you know, for me it went a little viral. Um and then from there, I think it's just helped all the other videos that have followed just kind of launch of it.
SPEAKER_00It's amazing. Well done. Good work. I mean, I mean, we all have to be careful of not like putting our worth on what our social media is doing and all of that. But you're nothing but consistent. And in watching those videos, the thing that I love about watching is how you're doing those beautiful, like sometimes soft, sometimes really transparent. And it's like every time I see you work on a painting, like over the course of time, you can just see this evolution of those beautiful, subtle layers. It's like poetry. It's like watching poetry.
SPEAKER_01Oh, amaz thank you so much. That's honestly it made made my day. But you know, you never I never know if it's you know, if it's interesting for people to watch it, or you know, are you oversharing? But at the same time, it's you know, it I think it feels like I think as you know, you know, working in a studio can be quite a sort of a solitary experience. You kind of can end up getting holed up in there and not really seeing other humans for quite a while, but to sort of be able to share it and have it be seen outside of just waiting for a next exhibition. Yes. Um, it's it's definitely like a pretty incredible tool, Instagram, to be able to use it like this.
SPEAKER_00Is there any other ways that you kind of navigate that solitude? Because I think it's something that uh I mean, I speak to a lot of artists all the time, and it's one of those consistent themes that I feel like we all battle with this balance of being alone too much and really needing to force ourselves out of the vortex to keep human connection, or we're one of those people that really don't like being on our own. And I I do think that each of us in our own way, like I know so many artists that are complete extroverts, and so many artists that are complete introverts, and even the extroverts require that that solitude time, yeah, but it can get you can go down the rabbit hole way too far, and you don't realize when you're really caught up in that creative vortex, and it takes a little bit of space from the work at times to really be able to reset and see the work with fresh eyes. Do you find that?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I mean, to every everything you've just said, yes. Um first of all, I think in terms of the um, you know, the need for checking in with other people, I'm I'm probably leaning quite far on the introvert spectrum where I, you know, I think I sometimes catch myself uh thinking, oh, I actually haven't hung out with my friends now for, you know, I haven't seen their faces for like a few weeks. Like this, I need to actually give someone a call. Um but generally speaking, like I I really enjoy um because of closing myself in here and kind of conserving as much energy as possible for for the cameras. I think especially right now, sort of in preparation for a show, I I maybe just give myself a little bit of extra leeway with um isolating. Um summertime. So I'm I'm also a little bit addicted to the ocean and just kind of jumping in the sea for a cold plunge. Like that's something that during you know, during the summertime I would try and do every day or every other day. Um so that gets me out of the studio. If I have a really good day painting and then just kind of go in the afternoon and have a good jump in, yeah, meet up with a friend throughout the week sort of for a swim. That's kind of the way I balance it. But winter I I cocoon, I I truly hibernate every winter. Yeah. Um and so I kind of give myself that permission to to go into the little cave and just keep working through it. Um but yeah, it is it is a bit of a battle. I think um, you know, I think we're all trying to sort of figure out the right sort of balance and flow, but I think right now I'm okay with this.
SPEAKER_00I think it's for a time and yeah, sorry, well sorry to cut you off. I was gonna say, like, when you're this close to a show, what it actually requires, and I think non-creative, non-artists kind of, they don't really understand how much emotional energy it takes just to to produce the work is one thing, but you also carry a lot of um emotional weight into the show. All of the not weight in a negative way, but there's almost like a current that you need to sit in and exist in for a period of time. And it's almost like, I don't know, the way I would describe it is it's like that current is like the glue that feels like it's holding everything together up until that point it's on the wall. And then you can kind of breathe and step out of the current. Does that make sense? Does that resonate with you or is it just me?
SPEAKER_01Hmm. I I I like I like the way that sounds. I like, you know, I think I like the imagery of all of that. I don't know if that's my experience with it. I think for me, it is like a even if even if I'm so happy with the work, even if I feel like yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to say, like, you know, I think you you know that you just can't sort of control, you know, that you can't control sort of so many factors in it. And there's always the the question in your mind is, you know, how is this going to be received? And um so I think when does it end? I think when do you when do you manage to sort of take that deep breath? Is it when the work's on the wall? Is it kind of after the show is over and you can kind of then just have a little tiny moment of collapse before sort of jumping back into the studio again? Um but you know, I I think this time around for me, I'm expecting it feels like a tiny bit different just because uh it's my first show that I've done maybe since there's been um maybe a few more eyes on the work than there have been before. And I don't know why it does make a bit of a difference to me, and maybe I don't know whether it feels like coming from a bit of a safer place than um than just you know pure unknown.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01So I'm I'm I'm still nervous. I think it's I don't know if it's impossible to kind of not feel nervous beforehand, but and I'm definitely quite excited about it at the same time.
SPEAKER_00And I think as well, like we met at Fisher's Ghost Art Award and had that brief discussion right at the start, and then you inevitably won the People's Choice Award, which was so well deserved. It was such a beautiful work. And in actual fact, it was one of the works that I was walking around and I thought that one deserves to win. And you know, like that, and the thing is at Fisher's Ghost, it was a really strong curation of work that that last year. There was a lot of good works, but I think the reason your work held its own there, it wasn't big. It wasn't like, look at me, I exist bigger than everyone else. And yet I think that's why I loved your work because I felt like it had so much power in such an intimate, and when I say intimate, it's not like it was really small. Like what size was it? Like a meter by it was about, it was actually about a meter by a meter. Yeah, yeah. So not a huge work, but it just so cleverly held its own power without being loud and without being um, you know, like a I've already got a name for myself. Like it was just this really beautiful, quiet intensity that it had. And wow, thank you. And so I'm really genuinely glad that your work won that award. And did that open up any opportunities from from that point, or did you already have some things in the works after that?
SPEAKER_01I suppose there were maybe a few sort of things in the works. I actually I'm I'm squeezing my brain right now, trying to remember if this exhibition was CBD Gallery was confirmed before or after the Fisher's Ghost award.
SPEAKER_00I think you mentioned, I think you mentioned to me that there was you said there's something happening. With CBD Gallery. And I said, and I thought, oh, goody, goody.
SPEAKER_01You're right now. I remember that. Yes, okay. But it all probably happened like very, very recently before that. Um I think that it probably has. I can't, I can't say exactly what else. Because because right now, I mean, CBD Gallery is is the sort of the next big thing for me. Although I don't know if I'm allowed to even mention it, but I I do believe they're bringing me to Sydney Contemporary this year as well. Thank you. Which I'm feeling pretty sort of giddy about, but I'm also afraid to actually jinx it. So um we will we will see.
SPEAKER_00I'm not sure if we'll put that into the podcast, but we can cut it out if we need to. That's completely fine. But I think that there's something to say about I think we're allowed to get excited about these opportunities. You know, you're allowed to I think sometimes we put our big exciting things off because we also there's a little part of us that worry about how it will affect other people. And I think inevitably at times in the industry when you feel you're kicking ass, there's other people really struggling. And I think we sometimes um can get a little bit too overconscious about not celebrating our achievements. And I'm really big on saying to all artists, you need to celebrate your achievements, and then we need to celebrate you. I am such a big fan of celebrating other people's practices because when we operate in a silo in our studios on our own, we get so caught up in our own heads with our own overthinking. And sometimes it's actually more important that another artist looks at our work and goes, you're doing really good things. Keep going. And we need to do more of that for each other. And without the competition, like putting competition aside, just being grateful that other people are doing really well in the industry.
SPEAKER_01You're so right. Absolutely. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think I I haven't quite figured out how to feel comfortable with that myself in terms of like heralding the the good things that are happening for me. I think it's all kind of um, you know, I think it's a little harder for me, but I I'm like you said, I think I'm such a fan of of um so many artists in this community and to be able to sort of celebrate them and be, you know, vocally excited for them and what they're doing, I I think it's you're right, it is something we should all be doing. Um Yeah, and I I and I I don't I don't know I don't know. I I think it's it's such a difficult um it's a difficult industry to to really sort of make headway in. Um, I do feel very fortunate right now to again just have sort of any eyes on my work. Um and yeah, I think that it's that balance of sort of being mindful of um of just the the different stages that everyone else is at and not wanting to be an arsehole. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that there's a very I think there's two different things. I think there's a very big difference between um celebrating wins and having a big ego, and believe me, there are both in this industry. Um, but I think that the people that show up authentically and genuinely celebrate other artists, they are actually the ones that build really beautiful connections. And it's like that has always been a really big value of mine, like right from the start, is kindness and showing up in a way that you genuinely are curious about other people's success. Because I think all of us can learn from each other, no matter what stage we're at. And in actual fact, sometimes it is those creative friends of mine who they're not necessarily um represented by a gallery and they don't really know when they're gonna have the next show. And yet those people too have pearls of wisdom that I think, God, I'm so grateful to have you in my life, if you know what I mean. And so I think it's so important to just remember that, you know, we aren't really operating on this pedestal. There isn't a great diff deal of difference between um creative people. It is, it is more that we are all genuinely just trying to figure out our way. And when we remember that, I think we can show up in a different way in the industry as well. Yeah. Yeah. How what I'm curious about, because I've been watching your work since Fisher's Ghost. That's where I started following you. And one thing that I feel like rings so true for me in your work is your consistency and your creative voice. And I'm very, very curious about how that all got started for you. And what just give us like a rough timeline as to how your how your creative life has kind of unfolded because I don't even know the background as to whether you studied, whether you didn't study. Like I am so fresh to your work. So can you can you give me like a a bit of a layout as to how all of this came to be?
SPEAKER_01So I was I was that child who would have spent sort of as much time as possible during school hours kind of hiding in the art room. Um, I always found sort of the playground a bit overwhelming. There's just a lot of things going on. You know, I had good friends, but at the same time I I would still just find a lot of the um, just a lot of the sort of the noise of school just very, very intense. And so I'd be in the art room and just kind of playing around with whatever materials were available. Um, I used to doodle a lot as a kid. Um and there'd be very uh specific shapes and patterns that I was making. It's a lot of interlocking lines and um sort of jagged edges that would sort of all fit together, and I would just kind of spend, you know, a lot of just absent-minded time just kind of drawing these things out on paper. And so it was the combination of you know having something quite specific that I was compelled to be creating, so these repeating patterns and shapes, and having um, you know, the the the time and the space to be able to be sort of consistently working on it. Um it was my art teacher in school who had suggested I go to art school, and I at the time was living in so I did all of my high school in Los Angeles. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00I had no idea.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I I lived in LA, I guess, from the age of 14, did all of high school there, and then I moved to New York for for university. So I went to uh do you know Pratt Institute?
SPEAKER_00I've heard of it, but I don't know anything about it. How does that how does the the US kind of New York style of education, how does how do you know how that differs to the Australian kind of teachings, or you don't have a reference point?
SPEAKER_01I don't have a reference point. Um I and I also don't know how it is in terms of like the after-school experience as well. So I I know that from what I understand in the Australia, Australian sort of art school system, I think there's a lot of um, you know, sort of foundational relationships that are built through school and uh there's a very sort of strong and quite sort of intimate community in in Australia, in the arts community. Am I right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I would say I studied at National Arts School, and yes, I would I would say that is definitely something that you get out of um, well, at least I did out of NAS. However, there is always like, oh, there's so many gaps in our education when it comes to art education. Like sometimes I think the thing that is skipped over completely, I feel, and still not enough taught. This is based on like what I hear from clients that I'm mentoring and whatnot, is that there's not enough um education on how the art business works, like as a whole industry. And so what that then leads to is a whole bunch of artists who are actually, you know, they just think that they're actually getting nowhere because they just don't have enough clarity around, okay, well, what is the next step for me? How do I get to that next step? And yeah, yeah. At the same time, no, uh it it's more like at the same time, I think that that is also one of those organic things that you inevitably begin to realize the more work that you make and the more people that you talk to and the more shows that you do. And I don't know how that compares to how the universities work in the US. That's why I asked the question because I'm genuinely curious to know if there is that additional kind of education there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I think you do probably um get maybe a bit more of that in in the system over there. I mean, I I won't I won't comment on all the art schools, but I I know that in New York you've obviously got access to just such an incredible sort of wealth of galleries, museums, you know, it's quite a sort of a deep seated sort of industry over there that maybe it's it's a little bit more of something that that they really kind of throw you into. Um and it's maybe I'm gonna say it's more feasible to make a career out of it over there because I I don't know. I think that it no matter where you're creating, I think it's a very competitive and very sort of tricky industry to kind of make your name in as an actual um you know self-sustaining artist.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um of of all of my friends that I went to art school with, you know, not many of them are actually still creating art as their, you know, as their sort of main drive in life. It's kind of a secondary thing.
SPEAKER_00Yes. That's exactly the same as um like I think we had our 10-year anniversary, and that was a few years ago now, and there was probably two of us, two of us that were actually in the industry exhibiting, regularly having shows, represented by a gallery. There was quite a lot of school teachers, um, quite a lot of art teachers and things like that. But I that actually shocked me because our year had some really, really talented people in it. And so I think that just that is exactly a perfect example of just how challenging the industry is and how much grit it takes to just keep showing up. Yeah. Even when you feel like you're not being seen, even when you don't have a show booked, and this is where again that community and supporting other artists is so important.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah. Agreed. I think just to know that you are kind of all in this together. And I think that like the main, the main important thing for all of us, whether we're, as you said, so have it have a show coming up or even sort of just painting with the idea of being able to get something out of your system, even if there's no other purpose for it than creating and enjoying creating and not relying on it to actually be um, you know, the the thing that sort of financially sustains you at any point. Yes. Um you know, it's it's it's a lifeblood for many of us. And and uh you know, I think that we're um I don't know, I know I feel so grateful at all all stages of it to be able to sort of have this to rely on as as a way to kind of keep me sane. I don't know if you find this as well for you, but um Yeah, it's certainly an oxygen tank, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00So you went from LA. How did you end up in Australia?
SPEAKER_01So prior to moving to Los Angeles, my family had been here for about five years in Sydney. Uh but I originally am from London. So there's a lot of there's a lot. There's a lot, there's been a lot of bouncing around. And I I think to be honest, you know, when I when I think of the work that I'm making, I think a lot of it really feels quite like rooted in in the kind of traveling and bouncing that I've done, this kind of feeling of being quite untethered and looking for ground, sort of searching for ground, searching for sort of recognizable terrain. Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. That's really interesting. Yeah, because as I suppose as there's not that much um grounding me in any of these places. You know, there was, you know, there's the friends that you meet, but your environment is constantly shifting. So as well as moving countries, my family was moving house a lot and I changed schools a lot. There was a lot of just a lot of flux. And so I I like to, I think, yeah, I think I like to sort of paint these alternative environments that still kind of stay quite consistent in the way that I'm viewing them, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Now that I now that I know that side of your life, I can see a hundred percent how your your works almost become like this um, it's like a safe place to land. That's that's how I would describe them. I think that's what I was trying to get out before with that Fisher's Ghost Award. Like how they don't have to be like loud and look at me and look at me, but they are so beautiful and so subtle.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think some some probably I mean, they I suppose there's such a a variance two of them. And I feel like the ones that I feel the happiest with are the ones where I sort of don't force my opinion on them too much. And there's always that sweet spot of knowing kind of just where where to stop in a painting. And you know, I think sometimes I feel more successful at it than others, but you know, I don't know, I don't know if you find this, but it's sort of for every piece, it might even sound trite saying this, but I I do feel like I learned so much from every painting that I do, and it's not necessarily learning in terms of, oh, you know, this this colour worked well here or this form worked well there, but it's like learning learning about myself as well and um and also sort of working through. I don't know if this is something that you've experienced too, but with like perfectionism, I actually feel like your work would be so perfect for like someone who is a perfectionist.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm not. I'm uh I'm actually funnily enough, it's one of those things that I'm a bit of a I have a bit of rebellion against perfectionism. I am probably the polar opposite of that, and yet I am a chronic overthinker. So what I tend to do is I murder my paintings over and over and over again. And I have, do you know what? Before I was even building up layers of paint and excavating, what I was doing was covering things over. And so there's been this consistent thread of overwork my entire existence. And so my entire process has actually become like this thing that was developed through my need to overwork things because the the way I build up the paintings, it's like painting a painting 50 times and then covering it over and saying goodbye to it, and then literally attacking it and not knowing what's going to happen when you hit it with the sander. So So when do you know that you're done? Ooh, a question. I hate that question because I like it is so hard. It is so hard. And I battle with it with every single work. Um, and there are works where like at this stage, I have a pretty good knowledge as to what the colours are gonna do over the top of one another. Colour is not a challenge for me, like it used to be in the early days. Like I know what I'm trying to get out of the painting. When it comes to the sanding part and not overworking it, that is where I hit real sticky spots, still to this day, all the time. I would say that there's about 30% of my work that um just gets sanded off the panel completely. So I could build it up for five months, six months, and then I will sand to a point where I find something that excites me. So whether it be like an area of contrast or just like a collection of colors that are really beautiful together. And then from there, I'll kind of keep sanding out from that central point. And then at the end, what generally happens is I look at it and it's either working or it's not working. And so if it's not working, then I inevitably keep sanding and I can potentially keep sanding and sand it all off. And then I have to basically start over and build up areas again with more texture and the process kind of starts. So it is push-pull. It's push-pull constantly. It's like a dance between like control and surrender because you're like, I want to see what's in that next layer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. But then you just know that you could go that tiny bit too far and then it's all over the thing.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, they have a they have a voice of their own. Like I know when something's done and it's good. Like, so what happens is usually after that initial sand. So I'll do basically like a sand to essentially explore the terrain, and then I'll look at it and I'll go, is there substance here or is there no substance? And if there's substance there, then I'll kind of look and I'll go, okay, this area is working well, this area needs more sanding, and I'll kind of be a little bit more strategic about where I sand.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so you won't let yourself go somewhere where it's obviously things are going well, we're not going to push that one over the edge.
SPEAKER_00So it's self-control, 100% self-control. Um, and then I will hit like a day in the studio, potentially like what you have had, where I just feel like yesterday it was working really well, and today I just don't know where it's going. And I've had to learn to walk away and not keep sanding just for the sake of it.
SPEAKER_01Can you give yourself a couple of days or is this one? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I get obsessive. I do get obsessive at that stage, and I don't like leaving anything in that messy stage. So I kind of I kind of dabble. Like I'll dig at little areas and I'll be like, oh, there's something exciting there. Okay, I don't have to stress too much. I can let it sit because there's the potential of something being there. I swear, I've thought this before.
SPEAKER_01I would just love to like look over your shoulder and just watch your work. It's just such a like just incredibly interesting and visually just gorgeous way that your works come together.
SPEAKER_00You can come in anytime. You are welcome to come in. Yeah, yeah. Really? I would I would love to.
SPEAKER_01Like, you've no idea. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I'll tell you where I'm sending the US works, and you can come in for the initial sand, and then you can go, oh, stop, stop.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. I'm totally taking up on this, by the way. This isn't one of those, like, yeah, yeah, this is happening.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we are, yeah, we are doing this. I have artists that float into the studio all the time. I love it. I love it. I love that. It's noisy and gets a bit dusty sometimes, but I don't the sand is reasonably good. Like it sucks up 90% of the dust.
SPEAKER_01So it's also just so fun for you being able to kind of work on these, like these tools as well. I think it's like a very, I don't know, what's it what's a word? I mean, it's it's more than tactile.
SPEAKER_00It's oh, it's grit. It's like I have this little part of me that just loves a challenge. And loves a bit of struggle and loves like the nitty-gritty, like the hard, the hard way of doing things. And so it's like, I must be the only crazy artist on the face of the planet that wanted to paint a painting like 50 times and then waste all the paint and sand it all off. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01So I'm not doing it the same way as you, but I have to say, like, I've I was just thinking to I've wasted, I've wasted so much paint today. Oh, have you? In a similar okay, so you're using a sander to kind of remove your layers. I'm I'm I'm I'm basically wiping off so much of what I'm actually putting on, just waiting for like little remnants to come through. Yeah. But there's there's there's this is something that's actually been sort of in more of my recent works versus um, you know, versus the older pieces. In fact, I think the piece you would have seen in person at Fisher's Ghost probably had like none of that. But the recent works is there's a lot of that happening where it's using sort of solvent mineral spirits to kind of wipe away the layers of oil. Yeah, yeah. Um and yeah, I keep thinking like thinking about how much how much waste there is going on, but I don't know, you've got to find those layers underneath, just trying to kind of pull them out and see what speaks to you and try to preserve the bits without then getting carried away and you know, and ruining it again.
SPEAKER_00Oh, look at the end of the day, if we were all standing around in our studio worrying about whether we're gonna mix up another series seven colour and waste half a tube, like none of us would make anything if we were that terrified. Like you just think you've got to like like I think, oh probably I think because my process has always cost me so much money, um, it's kind of one of those things that in a way I've just had to surrender to. And so I try not to overthink about any of that anymore. Because otherwise it'd just destroy me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. Um, I don't know if you're a fan of this as well.
SPEAKER_00I I I do like to sort of paint over canvases as well. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, nothing, nothing ever goes to waste with me. And because I work on panel, um, the more substance that's on the panel, the more exciting the painting can be. So the history that's there often informs like some part of the composition. So I'm a really big fan of um sanding old works and um yeah, seeing if they can almost be a starting point for something new. Yeah. Um yeah, no, I always use my panels. Like I look in my storage area at the moment, I'm like, okay, I have about $7,000 worth of panels sitting here with previous work that I just need to sand and paint over again, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So we don't waste, we don't waste that money.
SPEAKER_01No, we do not. I and I I think that panels are probably you're right, like a really sort of forgiving medium to be able to sort of do that with because you can kind of you can like you can erase pretty sort of deep into it. Um I I I feel a bit uh it's a bit trickier, I think, with with oils, I find.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it is. It is. And it's also dependent on um your mediums too. Like I think in the past when I was working in oil and cold wax, some of those panels I can't even use anymore because the wax I have to literally paint strip if I'm gonna put acrylic paint on the top. So there is like a handful of panels that you've got to be careful what what things you're putting over the top of another, because it can become like a you know, you can unstable. Yeah, it can destroy a body of work. But with yours, yours is so um so large. So with this full show, how many pieces in total are you gonna have for the show?
SPEAKER_01Well, I've so far I've I've set aside 15 pieces. Um I think there's 15 pieces on the kind of catalogue preview. Fantastic. So, but that being said, like I've I've got I've got more that I might I might we'll you know, we might be sort of shuffling things around. I've got I've got some more. So we'll we'll see. We'll a lot of it depends on um on the gallery walls and what's gonna fit. Again, my pieces are quite large. Um the gallery is is maybe a bit of a snug spot. Have you been to C B D Gallery before?
SPEAKER_00No, I haven't. I haven't because all I've seen of C B D Gallery has been at Sydney Contemporary. Um, no, but I haven't come to the actual gallery before, so I'm really excited.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So yeah, so look, we'll we'll see, we'll see what actually fits in the space. Again, I'm just gonna bring, you know, those 15 plus other ones that we want to consider and then we'll see what ends up kind of making its way there. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're doing a great job if you've got extras. Like that's the ideal scenario to get to a show and have have choice and not feel like every single thing has to go up on the wall. So you're absolutely killing it. Go girl. Thank you. Yeah, it's been um it's been really interesting actually to hear about that history and you moving around and all of that. Are you um are you rooted now, like in Australia? You're not moving anymore. Like, do you feel very sticky? Are you here now?
SPEAKER_01I do feel very rooted and secure here. I've got family here, I've got my, you know, a lot of roots now that kind of make me feel very, very much tied to this place. Um that being said, there's kind of the the bug in me always that kind of wants to keep sort of bouncing and exploring. And I think also with with art, there's other places that I'm hoping to exhibit and um sort of seek other opportunities. So I'm I'm hoping to sort of spend more time in the States again and you know, and back in London also. But in terms of where I'm living, there's nowhere else I'm you know, I don't actually want to be sort of living in general, but I do want to be out exploring a bit more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the beautiful part is when we make art, we have to allow our art to lead us. And it's like the beautiful thing is our art can be traveling all over the world and creating connections for us. And so true. It's um, I mean, it's a whole adventure, this art world, isn't it? And wouldn't it be amazing if you ended up having that full circle moment and having that work overseas? That'd be awesome for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think that's yeah, that would be a bit of a dream. You've got your tell me about your your show that you've got coming up. You've got works going on overseas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I've got currently a pallet of work sitting downstairs waiting for pickup that's going off to Canada, and that's just like a little collection. Um, both places overseas, it's kind of like a first kind of test of the market. So there's part of me that's like over the moon, jumping out of my skin, and there's another part of me that's quietly shitting myself because the international shipping, it's like huge financial risk. And you just think to yourself, well, am I going to allow this to be a barrier and quit? I'm like, oh hell no. No, you go, I'll find a way. And that I that is what I've been navigating is finding the way of doing that. And so the Canada works are going off probably next week. So that's really exciting. And then I've got two new reasonably sized works that'll be going off to the US. And I won't talk about the gallery yet because I don't know if I'm allowed to, but they are going off to the US, and that's really, really exciting. And I just think um, you know, I mean I'm so grateful. I'm so, so grateful for the opportunities. And I just I've kind of been operating with this quote on my wall all year that's been universe, show me how good this can get. And so I've seen that.
SPEAKER_01I've seen that in one of your posts. I love that so much. Yes. I'm so about that.
SPEAKER_00Trying to just stay optimistic and open and the battles that come, like the international shipping, like I've learned so much in negotiating this first um palette of work going over. And I think, you know, all of these battles I just see as um growing pains and opportunities for expansion. And I just think, you know what? If something doesn't work and it ends up not being a good decision, I'm not gonna turn around at the end of the day and regret it. I'm gonna say, well, at least I tried. Like at least I gave it a go. Look at what I learned from it. So I'm curious. I'm just genuinely curious to see what happens and whether the new markets um, you know, respond to the work. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01I I think that's that's the best approach. And I think too, you know, with with your work also being able to sort of reach wider audiences, again, talking about Instagram as a tool, um, you know, I I'm not sure if you find this, but there's there is such a kind of a lot of interest you know, of these kinds of works coming from overseas that just to get the get your work over there and you know, the plan B is not that we need to talk about plan B's, but your work will be there and there'll be other galleries that would then also want to take on the opportunity if this one for some reason doesn't turn out to be like the perfect one.
SPEAKER_00Well, they're seeds, they're all seeds that are being planted, and I just think you you just don't know. You don't know how this adventure is gonna turn out, and all you can do is just show up as your authentic self, keep making good work or work that you're the most proud of, and you know, get it out there. And if people are willing to give it a go, and it's it's so much risk for an international gallery to take on an Australian artist in particular because of the shipping. I mean, we ship it there, but if something doesn't sell, they've got to ship it back. It's financial risk, and we're so far away. So, I mean, I just think, wow, what an opportunity. Someone believes in my work so much that they're willing to give it a go. And that's what I'm grateful for. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01No, it's I think it comes down to also just backing yourself. And I think the more you can do that, the more you back yourself, the more other people sort of come to the table as well. I'm a strong believer in that. Um and your work's incredible.
SPEAKER_00And oh, thank you. I believe the same in you. And I think I think uh I think this conversation has but just been a perfect example of like um the both of us just kind of meeting the industry where we're at and just genuinely navigating it from a place of curiosity. And I think there's something to be said about that. And you know, I think it's really important to not think, oh, I get this now, because every single time I feel like I understand this new portion of the industry, another layer of the onion peels off, and I'm like, oh, I have no idea what I'm in. And so it's just it's just arriving with every new opportunity going, wow, really grateful. I wonder where this is gonna lead. And staying completely open.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think that's yeah, and I think that's there's so much that again we have no control over, but I think just staying open and staying sort of I guess supportive of of your own process and you know, but what is it? I'm I'm a big fan of a bit of bit of hopium as well. I think all of this stuff just kind of I don't know. I think the universe does sort of provide. I think that again, the more you back yourself, the more these things kind of seem to work out in the end.
SPEAKER_00And do you know what? There is something to be said about um, you know, no one's coming to save you. You know, you can't just expect to sit in your studio making beautiful work and not then step up and show up for your beautiful work. And I think that's the way I think about it is that this work has changed me as a person. I honor what my work does for me on the inside. I honor how it has changed me for the last decade. I honor how much my work has gotten me through hard phases of my life. And I think when you honor your process in that way, it forces you to step up to the plate and go, well, if my work is expanding this much of me, how can I show up for it? And it might be as simple as just starting to attend some openings and having conversations with people that you would normally be a little bit scared about talking to. But it's just like one next step. If we wanna, if we wanna change people through our work, we have to be willing to take that one next step forward. And it doesn't have to be a leap or a bound, it just has to be the next logical step for you. Um but I think if our work is leading the way, like I'm a firm believer that our work is 10 steps ahead of us all the time. It already knows, it already knows what what's gonna come of it. And I I always say, because I feel like this is what inspiration does with me, I feel like it it kind of drops in and it pulls me and it's always ahead of me, and I'm constantly chasing where the inspiration is leading me. And so then I think, oh, I've painted this before. A future version of myself has painted this painting, and the the current timeline that I'm standing on has to expand a bit more to be able to finish this painting, you know? I love that. I love that.
SPEAKER_01That's a really yeah, that's a nice way of thinking about it. I like it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, well, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you, and um, we are definitely gonna continue this conversation, and you can come into the studio anytime. We'll do a we need to do a studio swap day where we where I'll come to yours, you can come to mine. And um let's wait until we get to a struggle point. Let's wait until we get to that point that we're like, oh something's not working, how do I fix this?
SPEAKER_01Honestly, I actually feel like I would love to get together with you over a over a drink one evening and like to talk all these things. So I feel like there's actually so much more I'd like to chat to you about.
SPEAKER_00So we can do it. We can do it. Absolutely, 100%. Send me an invite and I'll be there. Done. We'll do. Oh, thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to leave anyone with, like a final thought or anything?
SPEAKER_01Um, ooh, that's a tricky one. I mean, honestly, uh I got I I I can't think off the top of my head, but um, I don't know. Corinne, thank you so much for having me. And it was so lovely chatting with you. And if anyone does happen to want to come to the CBD gallery uh exhibition, it's called Inner Ground. And would love to see you there. And you can hopefully see Corinne there as well, right? I will, I'll be the one in pink.
SPEAKER_00I'll be the one in pink. Good, beautiful. Okay, awesome. Well, um, send me all the details for the show notes and a nice headshot, and I'll get this recording uh ASAP. I'll edit this one next so it can like go out quickly. Um yeah, yeah, and send me all the details. I'll text you my ink. Okay. Will do. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01All right, thanks so much, Corinne. Have a good time.
SPEAKER_02Bye. Bye bye.