Beneath the Facade: Diana Miller on Intuition, Creative Life & Breathwork

Daring Creatively: Unfiltered is an Australian art podcast where Sydney-based contemporary artist Korynn Morrison picks up the phone, drops a surprise topic into the conversation, and hits record.

In this episode Korynn calls Byron Bay-based abstract artist Diana Miller, painter, collagist, wall assemblage maker, and someone whose entire practice is built on the beautiful tension between intuition and control. The surprise topic: the moment intuition won the argument with your mind.

Diana's most recent solo exhibition Facade was built around a radical idea, working back over unsold and returned paintings with carefully planned geometric layers, creating a conversation between the intuitive backgrounds underneath and the more controlled shapes on top. Korynn visited this show three times and got something completely different out of it every single time she stood in front of the work. That is the kind of show this was.

In this unfiltered conversation two artists talk about the push pull between intuition and control in the creative process, how Diana's graphic design background secretly underpins everything she makes, the importance of honouring the post exhibition lull and why doing nothing after a big show is not laziness but necessary, her brand new journey into breathwork facilitation and how she plans to combine it with her art practice, moving 31 times and what that constant upheaval has done to her work, Human Design, creative guilt, and joy as the thing we all need more of.

If you love art podcasts, conversations about the creative process, or the real behind the scenes life of a working Australian artist, this one is for you.

New episodes drop whenever the call happens.

Diana Miller Relevant Links:

Diana's website HERE.

Diana's recent exhibition at Curatorial + Co. Sydney HERE.

Check her out on Instagram HERE.

Join My Inner Circle: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/mailing-list

Visit My Website: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/

Find me on Instagram HERE

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

My conversation today is with my dear friend and spiritual sidekick, Diana Miller, a Cape Town-born abstract artist now based in Byron Bay, working across painting, collage, and wall assemblage. Her practice is an optimistic negotiation between intuition and control, chaos and order, balancing gestural freedom with geometric structure and building compositions through layering, cutting and recomposing. With a background in graphic design, Diana rejects pictorial representation in favour of open emotional inquiry, creating immersive fields of experience where meaning emerges through the viewer's perception. She completed her contemporary art studies at the Byron-based School of Art, has held nine solo exhibitions across Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne, and has been awarded prizes including the Lethbridge 10,000 and the Little Things Art Prize, with commissions completed for clients in the UK, Sweden, and Japan. Now the topic I gave her today was actually more of a statement. And that statement was the moment Intuition won the argument with your mind. So grab yourself a cup of and let's dive in. Hey guys, welcome to Daring Creatively Unfiltered, where I call up an artist friend, throw a surprise topic into the conversation, and hit record. No plan, no prep, no agenda. Just two creatives having a chat. I'm Corinne Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life. My guests are artists at every stage of the journey. And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear. So grab a coffee, get into your studio, and come hang with us. This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Good morning. How are you? What's sunny Byron like today?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Uh it's sunny, but it's it was raining overnight, so it's a wet. Is it still like humid up that way? No, it's actually cooled down quite a bit. This morning I was a little bit chitty. Oh, yeah, the humidity's um cooled out all frites.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Yeah, it's the same here. Like the mornings are real cold, but I've been really enjoying them because I've been um trying to get into a habit of waking up at the same time every morning. And so I've been waking up around that four o'clock early morning mark. I know I I like I thrive off an early morning. It is early, but I find that if I don't wake up early, I actually am really unproductive. So if I allow myself to sleep until 6:30, I think it's because in the morning when I wake up, like I have my morning ritual where I'll grab my copper, I'll sit with my journal, I'll do a little bit of meditation and journaling. And then this morning I woke up and I've, oh God, I've needed to get out in nature so much lately. I think it's because I've been in the studio so much and I've just had this like real intense pull to get back out in the dirt again. Um and so I've been waiting. So I'll get up in the morning and do my little ritual and then watch the sun come up and then I'll go for my walk. So then I'll get back and I'll feel like I'll feel like I've started in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

How was the gym? Oh, it's time. Hey, can you turn that music down a little bit? It's oh it's gone. What music? Are you talking to me? Yeah, there was just really loud music playing in the background. No, I've got nothing on in the background.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Oh, that is so funny. I have Instagram open and then Oh so it's it's you, not me.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

It's me, not you. That's funny. I was like, that music's really distracting. Oh, that's so funny. That's so funny. Oh classic sorry. Okay, I can hear you. I can hear you better now. Now that I don't know. That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Congratulations on your on your big commission. I wanted to say that before we get into our um chat. Are you excited?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yeah, I'm really excited. I haven't really made any work since my show, so or since pre-my show. I mean I finished my show in like October, September, October last year. So I really haven't s made that much since then. And I've been so busy with all other things in my life that um yeah, it's been you know fine. But now I'm like itching to get back into the studio. So I think it's natural.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

It's natural to have that post-exhibition lull. I think we need to like recharge out of after every show, you kind of have to go through that phase where you reflect, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

And you're just also creatively wiped out sometimes. You know, you just you put so much into it, it takes such a long time to put it all together. And then you do, yeah, you just need a you always need a break afterwards, at least a few months.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

So I was actually looking at all of your um all of your work like over the last like since we've been chatting backwards and forwards, sending voice messages to each other. I have been like looking more intently at your work because like I said to you, like when we first started chatting, Shannon and I like it was it was actually really nice to have the time with your work at your show because I went in three different times. Three different times, and I got more and more out of your work every single time I stood in front of it. And it was your titles as well. Your titles I thought were really beautiful, and in actual fact, I feel like both of us are um we're really navigating quite similar waters in our work, but just in a very different way. Like the intuition versus control polarity is something really interesting to negotiate. And when I was thinking uh about our surprise topic for today, I thought I had so many ideas. I had a whole list of them, and I've had to I've had to hone them down. So the topic is actually more like a statement. So it is the moment intuition won the argument with your mind.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Oh my god. The moment intuition won the argument with my mind.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Well, I just want I all I want you to do is use that as a starting point, and then we can let the conversation flow from there. Because the reason I landed with that is because when I was looking at your work at your show, the beautiful, organic, abstract, um, there's so much movement in the kind of the background. And then you've got those real structured, like negotiated, can more controlled shapes on top. And when Shannon and I were having discussions about that, we were like asking each other questions, like, oh, I wonder what would happen if like that more structured part was like underneath, and then the more abstract organic part was on top. So we got held in this really intense conversation about the control versus the surrender. And that's why I think I landed with that little statement, because that's kind of what I think about when I see your work intuition versus what our mental state tries to do in the creative process to like control the situation, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

I do. I mean, that's that show was equal parts complete surrender and intuitive process. And then the overlaying of those facaded more, you know, those organic but controlled shapes, those were of the mind because those were pre-determined and they were um they didn't just come organically. I planned those.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Oh Say more, say more, say more, say more. I'm really intrigued.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Oh well the whole idea of my show was around the idea of faciding, you know, and the fact that we grow up with all these layers and all these fronts that we learn to to put to put on ourselves to you know, basically protect ourselves from getting hurt, um etc. And so I actually had a lot of paintings, return paintings from from shows or works that hadn't sold. And the whole idea behind the show was being able to rework a lot of my old you know, which is a huge part of my practice. Works don't sell, or if there's things lying around the studio that um, you know, haven't been resolved. I thought this is a really great way to combine this um this idea of working over these existing paintings with these facaded layers that I did pre-plan and yeah, overlaid over these backgrounds, and you'll see the shapes in the in these facaded uh foregrounds. You will notice that the shapes repeat and echo each other throughout the body the body of work. Yes, yes, I did notice that. Yeah, and I do have a background in graphic design as well.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Wow, that makes sense. That makes so much sense now.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

So this so that show really combined me as an me as a painter, which is completely intuitive. I don't really engage my mind at all. But I'm not I'm not necessarily calculating what I'm gonna do. It just my r my work really does just flow out of me as I'm as I'm doing it. Um and then these these layers that I placed on top of those organic intuitive backgrounds, they were more of the mind. They were more calculated and more, you know, they're almost like the design, it's they're almost like a design element that I've overlay over this over this background. So it really is a marrying of of the two. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

And what I what I found fascinating about it is like the other thing I was doing when I was standing in front of each work, and I'm going to put um the link to all of this into the show notes as well, so people can actually look on and see what we're talking about. But what I ended up doing was I kept going around to each work and I kept like kind of holding my hands up like a cropping device, and imagining tiny small elements of your work as finished paintings. And what I was what I was able to do was it was like, and I think that's why every time I came back to view the show again, I got more and more out of it. Like I, it would be like the bottom corner of something would have this, this tone or this transparent layer that I hadn't noticed the first time. And then you you kind of put your hands up and you cough and you think, oh, like that's a painting in of itself. And so, and that's what Shannon and I were doing. We were walking around, we were like acknowledging all the tiny little sections. And so I think it was a perfect example of a show that requires the viewer to really take time with each and every work. And there was a lot of works in that show. That was a huge undertaking for you to put together.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Um yeah, there were 22, 22 works, so it was a big, a big 11 big ones and 11 small ones.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah, there was a lot of big works in the show. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. And I know that it's I know that it's one of those things that you finish and you kind of like you go through that lull and you you have a little bit of a reset for yourself before you kind of rethink what the next step is. But what do you think that um from making all that work, like it's inevitable that every show changes us in a way, or at least I feel like it does. I feel like, you know, we learn about more of those parts or the facades of ourselves with every single like big undertaking that we go through. And even the polarity with finishing and, you know, even whether it's the highs or the disappointment, the contrast in that actually teaches us a great deal about ourselves. And I don't know, like, is there something that you kind of took from this show that you're going to use moving forward? Do you feel?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Oh, golly. Um, I've actually been sitting with the idea of moving more into sculpture. Oh, I could see that with you. Yeah, and I and I do do a bit of I mean, I don't really do sculptures. But I do do three-dimensional, yeah, I do think all words. Yeah. And looking at a lot of those overlaid facided shapes, like there's so many shapes there that I could extrap extrapolate and and pull out and actually turn those into 3D forms. So that's that's an idea that I guess um has crossed my mind. I'm just I am kind of in an interim phase now when I'm just I'm not making a lot of work and I am just I don't know, I'm doing other things and I but it must my 3D work is something that I really would like to explore more. And I'm not sure what medium um that would be, but uh yeah, I guess that's one thing that's come out of it. And I have made I have made one more work actually. I've made it a new work for um our our house that we've just uh renovated. So and that was in that in the similar theme to my show. Yeah. Yeah, really great, I actually really uh it's a really nice, I really love it that painting actually. Uh so I don't know whether I'd yeah, I don't quite know. I don't think I would repeat that theme again, obviously, but perhaps elements of it would carry forward and it might I might move might move more into perhaps using those white and more neutral elements and maybe moving away from colour for a little while. I don't know. That's an interesting challenge in and of itself, isn't it? Yeah, because I've always worked with a lot of colour. And I know, I'm thinking like, you know, what what would my work look like if in the absence of colour? Um I'm I have been looking at maybe even doing a show just purely in white in using just uh you know three-dimensional forms, war works, white paintings, whatever. Yeah, so that's an idea of you know from those white overlaid white shapes, and they weren't all white. But a few of the paintings had that white kind of whimsical, um textured, almost um transparent overlays. So yeah, thinking of maybe moving it to something where I'm more purely working with white and form and three-dimension, yeah, three three-dimensional form sculpture wall pieces and the absence of colour. So yeah, those are the kind of things I I guess I'd have to be thinking about.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

I think the other thing is once you finish a show, I think sometimes we get we totally get stuck in this um this idea that we need to be producing. And I think at times we we really do need a reminder that you don't have to be producing constantly. You don't constantly have to be on this cycle of pushing work out there. And I had a very wise person say to me a few weeks ago now, just in passing, um, a creative in the industry who really shook me up in the best possible way. And she kind of said to me, Why do you feel like you've got to be so relevant all the time? And I was like, Yeah, so relevant. Why do you feel like you have to keep producing? And it was one of those questions that I felt like, hmm, after so many years, I don't think I've ever had anyone ask me that. And it seems quite obvious. And I I said to her, You've got me. And I said, Well, I guess it's like a habitual pattern. And we got down this rabbit hole of talking about how, you know, how whether your work, you know, holds more value when you actually create a lot less of it. Because we were talking about um, we were going down the rabbit hole of pricing and how much works costs to produce and just navigating the art market and um you know, just the decisions that we have to make as artists in order to keep a business alive and still feel passionate about what we're doing and not doing it just for the sake of doing it, and actually going back to the why behind the work. And after that conversation, I must say I have taken a great deal of time for myself to sit and go back to almost like a thesis mode where I'm thinking about the bigger picture as to why we do what we do. Why is it that we produce these works? Because realistically, or at least for me, my purpose for creating work is not so that every single person can own one and have it above their lounge. That's not the market that I consider my work going into. And yet, I still felt this pull to just constantly be pushing out new work. And I thought that's just society. That's just that's just the need to be constantly busy, you know, showing everyone that you're doing new things. And I wonder now that you've kind of gotten through the show and you've had some quiet time for yourself, what have you been doing to kind of nurture that, that sacred space for yourself? Because you were telling me that you were doing some breathwork and things like that. And I'm so fascinated by all of that. I definitely want to be a guinea pig, by the way. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I'll do a session on Zim with you. Yes. Yeah. So I uh I have been doing uh breastwork probably for one and a probably well since I moved to Byron Bay, which was 10, 11 years ago. And I didn't grow up in a spiritual household by any means. I mean, spirituality wasn't part of my life ever really until probably until I moved to Byron, I suppose. And I kind of uh kind of just stumbled across um breathworth. And it's just been one of the most incredible transformational practices that I've ever done. More so than any therapy, any not that I've really done therapy, but you know, I've done a lot of uh I've been to a lot of gurus and I've done a lot of healing work and I've been you know kinesiologist and all the all the different the healers and the this and the that. You know, I've always um been curious about that stuff and very I'm very into you know self-development and um you know kind of just become the the best version of myself, which is the very cliche saying, but you know, it does hold truth and truth. Uh so yeah, so breath work. I just I just fell in love with it. And I had the most incredible teacher she was actually she used to just teach at my gym, in fact. So it was very accessible. I could go to classes, you know, a few times a week. And then I kind of fell out of it. She left the gym and then I just um I would go to a few of her uh retreats or sessions. And then about six months ago, and then she's then she offered a course in facilitation. And I don't know, just it just uh it just grabbed me. I was like, and I've never taught before, I've never I've never coached, I've never done anything in that space before, and I've never really done yeah, done anything like it. But in the null after my show, I was just like, I've got space now to explore other things. And so I just I just jumped in and I and I just said it just felt like a yes, and I didn't quite know why. I just felt like it was something that I needed to do. So I signed up for the course. I actually finished it's a 12 week course and I finished week 12 this Monday. And then we have a bit of a break. And then we do a three day retreat, a four-day retreat um in Byron actually. And then I qualify as a as a breath facilitator. Wow. So it's yeah, so it's it's been the most incredible course. I've really, really loved it. And you know, it's challenging and it's uncomfortable because I have to uh I have to obviously now start doing you know practice sessions, you know, just with my friends and my family and that. Uh but it's it's a very different space for me to be in. And but it's been yeah, it's just made me realise that I can I can do it. And I just uh I'm I'm not sure in what capacity I'm gonna use it. I feel like it's going to be something that I'm going to incorporate with my art practice, um, more so with other people. So bringing people into my space, I actually um manifesting big time that I'm gonna get this um this warehouse space this year. So I yes, so in some form or another, I'm going to be combining creativity, art, being slowing down and just nurturing people's nervous systems and bringing people into a beautiful safe space where we can just breathe together and then create together. So that's that's my plan.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

Like absolute magic. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Oh, thank you. I mean, we're all just so busy being busy, like it's just ridiculous. And you know, I'm in my 50s now. You know, I've my 30s were ridiculous, raising kids. My 40s were ridiculous. I I've just and my husband's, you know, he's a bit manic and he's he's just non-stop go-go-go. And I think I've kind of over time my nervous system has kind of um is kind of regulated to his to his frenetic kind of state. So I have always felt like I need to function and be at the same and output at the same pace that he does, which you know, I get me to be. But but you know what I mean? Like I feel guilty if you just lying down because he's you know, he's he just never stops. So there's this kind of feeling that I need to be as busy and productive and doing, doing, doing, doing. I mean, I've just been doing and doing one stop for different decades. And you get to a point where you're like, what am I why am I just doing all this doing? I'm just never even being. And so the last two years, I've really especially the last year, um, and you know, we've I've moved, I haven't lived in City One Houses since I've lived in Australia. And we move all the time. My husband's a designer and we build it, so yeah. You know, I'll pack up houses and um yeah, it's just been constant. So it's just been a lot. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

In all in your in everything that you're saying there, I feel like oh god, we always attract our opposites, don't we? Like my husband as well, like he's got a very busy business as well. And same thing, he's a go, go, go. Um, like I've been tapping into human design a little bit, and so now you've got to have a look into it. It it makes so much sense to me. It's like one of those um, like uh Richard Rudd's The Gene Keys. So I read that first, and then I've kind of gone down this rabbit hole of human design. And as soon as I understood my design profile a bit better, so I'm a mental projector. Um and my husband is a generator. So and it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

My husband's a manifesting generator, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

Yeah, so my daughter's a manifesting generator, and I'm 100% sure that my entire family are generators and manifesting generators, and that is why I have constantly felt like the odd one out. But with my husband as I'm a mental projector, so I'm a projector, a projector, but I'm a rare type of projector because I only basically have I'm only defined from the throat to the head. So I have nothing below that, which essentially means that I have to talk things out with other people to get them to basically inform me on a lot of things. But being a projector, what we do is we absorb a lot of people's energies and we're like the wisdom keepers that have important things to say and really good advice. Turnly get that about you, yes. Yeah, and we but the thing is we have to wait for the invitation. So we can't just go spitting out all our wisdom when it's not invited to do so. Otherwise, it leads to really bad things. Now, my husband being a generator, he is exactly the same by the sounds as your husband, slightly different. Man of many gens and generators are slightly different, but he has this um this system on him that can just keep running. And I have constantly, and not only with him, but my whole family, my entire lives, I feel like I've always been looking at them going, why the hell do I not fit in with society? Why don't I fit in here? Like, I cannot do what you all do. I cannot have a nine to five job. I cannot stick to a structure that is not in alignment with my energy. Like, and I get tired quickly. So I'll have these bursts of energy. Like, for example, getting on the phone and having these phone calls. I absolutely love it. It gives me so much fuel, but I only have the capacity to hold space for one person at a time. I could not just book my whole day up with interviews where I know some people, that's how they would operate. And so with him, there's this thing I call creative guilt. And I think I've spoken about it in previous podcasts that are now non-existent. Um, I've spoken about the story as to what happened with the podcast recently. It's a whole big thing about my bank account getting spammed and all of this sort of stuff. Um but one thing that I have spoken about before is this creative guilt that we all called. Well, we look at what other people are doing and we try and align our energy or our frequency up with how everyone else is operating. And the creative life doesn't work like that. Like, especially if we're wired with a slightly different design than the generators and the many gens. Like it would be interesting. Oh, you have to give me your birth time. I've got a I could I could tell you what you are. Yeah, tell me your birth time, your birthplace, and your um date of birth. Because I reckon I I have a feeling you might be you could be a projector too, based on the conversations we've heard.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

I'm quite um I'm quite prolific. Like when I when I make, like I can I can make a lot, like I generate I degenerate a lot of stuff, and I think that's is my natural I don't know. I feel like that's my natural like I can get a lot done in a day and still be energized. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. See, I can't. I do have a capacity to um to yeah, to output a lot.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

I think it's personality too. Like, see, it's like whilst I'm like a complete rainbow unicorn and I love all the social stuff, and I I just I thrive off human connection up until a point, and then I reach that point of going, okay, I got nothing left, and then I retreat and I essentially go into this cave and I have to recharge on my own. And it's like I have to like let my husband know now at what percentage I'm operating at because he he his energy takes up a lot of space in a really good way sometimes. But when I'm at max capacity, I have to say to him, hey, I'm maxed out today. I can't, I can't feel myself anymore. So I'll ask you tomorrow about all the things going on with you. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

And he's like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I mean, I think that's great because you've got such an awareness of you, because often I don't think we check in with ourselves. You know, we just go on autopilot. And sometimes we do, we just go until we've got nothing left. But we're not really we're not really tuning in and realizing that. Like I'm I'm not super in tune with myself. I don't stop and do a check-in. I tend to kind of just go, go, go until I literally fall fall over. But yeah, but that's what I'm trying not to do anymore. I'm I'm I'm mindfully slowing myself down. I'm making myself lie on my bed, do nothing, read a book, yeah, do my breath, do my go for a slow walk, all those kind of things because you know my nervous system has just been on like a hamster wheel on you know, on sprints for the last my whole life, really, especially my adult life. Um and it does have it does have to be a choice to say no more. And I think when you do get to your fifties, you do I mean it's different for everybody, but I think um, yeah, when you get to your fifties, you you care less about what other people think and you and you do prioritize yourself more. And you you know, your kids are growing up and you do have a little bit more space for yourself, so you can put those things into place.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Yeah, it's a balancing act, and it's like I'm navigating that kind of still the phase where my daughter's quite young, and um, although she's growing up way too fast, and I'm like, slow down, I'm not ready.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

I'm not ready for you to be a teenager or go through that hormonal phase yet. Just stay, stay little for a bit longer.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

I know it does. And and I think the thing is like because she's young, I think it actually forces me to uh switch off a bit because you know, you can't be you you have to be present with kids, otherwise they're a nightmare. Like if like 100% love is spelt time. T-I-M-E. That's how they spell love. And so the thing is if you're not being actively present with them when you're with them, you're you know, they're they're going to they're gonna inform you of that. And the one thing that I see with her is like she really has taught me. I needed her to come into my life. You know, I needed her beautiful little soul to shake me up because oh man, it was so hard my transition to motherhood. It was oh really, oh my goodness. It was learning how to surrender because I'd been, I had this. Um, like I used to be uh an ex-gymnist, and so my entire life I dentistly I used to compete for Australia and do all of that sort of stuff. I feel like it was a lifetime ago now, but oh my god, I had no idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then I went from training full-time my entire life to going into becoming a coach and being quite a high-level coach and then running a gymnastics club and having all the students that I used to coach, and some of them I coached from when they were two up until they were 15 and 16. So they were like my kids. And so it was in it was my entire life. I was their psychologist, their hairdresser, their, their, their boyfriend advice giver, their parents would call me at all times of the night, you know, because I used to see their kids sometimes more than they did. And so it was a whole identity that was associated with Corinne the gymnast. And I had to um, I couldn't find a coach to replace me. So essentially, what I had to do right before I gave birth is I had to give all my programs over to other people. It was really emotional and really difficult.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

And um it was my boss at the time. She kind of, I was just on this rat wheel of always doing that. And she was the one that actually had to pull me aside and go, um, Corinne, you need to pause. Your life is is gonna change, you know, when you have this baby, you're not just gonna be able to bring her into the gym every night until eight o'clock to eat coaching. And it was like I'd gone through my entire pregnancy avoiding thinking about that and just thinking to myself, oh, everything's gonna keep going as planned, and blah blah blah. And she was the person that said to me, Stop it. You need to go and you need to leave this part of your life behind now. And I still, I still remember this. Um, like it makes me emotional even today because I remember the feeling that came over me in the day that I realized I had to make the decision to leave the industry completely because it was all or nothing for me. And so when I left to have my daughter, I literally left this whole identity behind. And I was always doing art on the side, but I hadn't yet kind of identified with the fact that I was, you know, an artist or whatnot. And so the thing is, the moment I had to make that choice, it was like I didn't know who I was, and I was really lost for a really long time. And and it took me a really long time to surrender to this idea um of just being present in the now. And she was this absolute gift that just changed my entire life, rocked me to my core, forced me to really look at myself. And because of that, I got forced to actually look at my art and make changes to my life. And it's like from there, I feel like my life actually started. So it was really interesting that transition. And I mean, have you got kids that are grown up now, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah. How old are they? I've got two girls, 19 and 20.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

That's that's still a fun age. That's a fun age. Oh, they're great. Great kids. I mean, one's overseas, so I don't see her at well, I see her on the phone. Um, and my other daughter's still at home. But yeah. They're great ages. They've gotten over that kind of s you know, that girls 14 to 17 are really hard. Yeah, and then they kind of come out come out the other side. Yeah. Start talk start talking to you again.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Yeah. They remember that they love you. Yeah. I all I still have conversations with my mum about what I was like around that stage. And um I was such a wild card, like, and definitely could never be told how to do things. And so my parents had this really unique strategy with me when they could tell I was like going off the rails a little bit or, you know, going down the wrong path a bit. They'd have this really subtle way of saying to me, hey, we are always here. We are always your safe place. If you tell us the truth, you will never ever get in trouble. But just remember, actions have consequences. And whatever you choose to do, there will be a consequence. And providing you are willing to deal with that consequence, go and experience life, basically. And it must have taken my parents a great deal of self-control to not step in and try and control me. Um, but it's the one thing I uh I'm 35 now. Wild. I was pretty wild, I was pretty wild. Like I think I had to, I was I've always been one of those people that's had to test the boundaries with things and try things for myself. So I need to know how far I can push things before it gets too much. And so I feel like I have experimented with that way of being my entire existence. And I do that with my art as well. Um, however, since my daughter, or since before my daughter, but since she's come along, I think it's become less about let's see how far I can push to the edge and more about following where my energy is actually pulling me and following that. So what used to be a challenge is now an intuitive kind of breadcrumb that I follow. It's quite interesting. Like this is why I need friends that are a little bit older than me that have already had like this wisdom and are at this different phase. Like I ask Anna Young all the time. Anna Young's like my my art atlas. And um, we'll have these, we call them business meetings now. They're quite funny. So ahead of all the openings and stuff we go to, we always go and we just have a margarita, or we sit and we just have some salt and pepper squid at our favorite little restaurant, and we have a business meeting about all things, and I get so much wisdom out of her, and she always like has this way of explaining something to me where I just go, Oh, I hadn't thought about that. And it's like every phase of our lives we go through, it's like you have some extra as you get older, yes, you definitely do. Yes, but I love that you're getting into this phase for yourself where you're um you're being more stubborn about setting down your roots. I get the gist as well. You want to stay still.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I still don't have that yet, but yeah, we're working on it. The husband, no more houses. You know how many times I've said that? Like, I I don't even tell my friend now when I move into a house, I don't ever say anymore, this is my actually, I did it in my last house. I'm like, I'm never moving from this house. It's literally went on the market yesterday. So, you know.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

Oh, I have an idea. I have an idea. So you need to go and get, so you you need to manifest this factory, but you need to manifest it in a way that it's like a living. Yeah, so you need to like pitch it to him as this is a creative design, like dream potential thing that you can build from the ground up, like go and get like an old um silo and turn it into something crazy or um has has he done any tiny homes? Has he done anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

No, he does he does big scale stuff. He doesn't uh tiny tiny home. He's done a lot of stuff. Uh but I know I know the I know the the I know the warehouse I want to buy. Oh, they're good. They're being they're being built at the moment. I'm gonna get one. Yeah, do it. Um do it. Your turn to make the decision. It's just all about it's just all about timing, but um I've I mean the vision in my head is so clear that I feel like it can't not happen.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

So Oh well that's when it's already happening. Yes. Our future selves are ten steps ahead of us, aren't they? That's it. I will be definitely one of those people that come up and do one of these breathwork creative sessions. I cannot wait to see how it all um pans out for you.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I'm hoping that the ideas will all uh so in my in when I do my retreat for three days, that's when all the when you're in those um elevated states of consciousness, that's when the ideas drop in. So that's what I'm really looking forward to, is because I feel like I'm gonna consolidate all the yeah all the hours and what I'm gonna do and what it's gonna look like. I feel like that I feel like that could potentially all drop in during that weekend. So that's it. We do do a whole we do a whole module on on business planning and yeah, and how we're gonna incorporate the breath into um you know what it's gonna look like for for each, you know, for the different um there's ten of us in the course, and you know, obviously we're all gonna do something a little bit different with it.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Yeah, that's fantastic. And you're be you're in the best part of the world for it. I mean, you're so lucky up there. In actual fact, I'm um I'm heading up your way very soon. I actually, do you know what? Well, this is the thing, my b my very busy husband, he every now and then needs me to get on the tools with him. And I feel kind of terrible because I've been so in my creative vortex and I haven't been helping him out with installs for like, oh, we're going on a few months now. And I think he's starting to feel the pressure of doing everything on his own and all of that. And he's got like a job up in Coff's Harbor, and he's like, Uh-huh, do you, do you, do you want to come? I'm like, bit spirit. I'm like, you're pausing. I know we it's like, oh my gosh, I need to make sure that it's like anything when you're in the creative zone and you get busy being busy, and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm so sorry. I haven't helped you with anything. I'm like, of course I'll come. So we're gonna do a road trip up to Coffs, and I'll help him with a couple of jobs up there. And how far is Coffs from you?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Um, I think it's either two or three hours, it's not far. Come up to Barn. Just you can dive. So you just come up for the day. I know, I know. It's close enough. It is. Yeah, that's they fixed all the highway now, so it's actually super quick. It's a two and a half.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Yeah, well, the last time we We were up there, we were visiting friends who were like around that gimpy region. We were camping on their property, which was really lovely. Yeah, so it's not that far. So yeah, yeah. And we did. We stopped in Byron on the way there and stayed in a little motel. And every time I go through there, I just think, oh, this is such a dream here. Every time I come here. That's what I keep forgetting to ask you. How was Byron Bay School? Because I Byron Bay School?

SPEAKER_03 44:31

The the School of Art. Didn't you study at Oh the Byron School of Art? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Oh, incredible. Absolutely incredible. I just had an absolute ball. Like I only do I went for two. There's a three-year course, but because I had prior um experience, I went into I I just did second and third year. Honestly. Um the tuition was fantastic. It's but it's all like you don't because they don't um they're not um what's the word? They're a private. They're a private source. There's no accreditation. I don't uh like it's not like a case where you have to do all the health and safety and all the you know all the rubbish. Sorry, not not rubbish, but um yeah, all that stuff you don't have to do. You purely are learning about art. And you get just get exposed to you know, a world of artists that you just never knew existed. Um you just learn how to see the world in a completely different way. And the people, I mean the people in my cohort were I think there were 11 of us to start. I think a couple of young ones dropped out, so I think we ended up with nine. Oh, how good's that? People, yeah, and but people from all different walks of life at all different ages. And we had people in their late 60s or even seventies down to I think the youngest probably ended up maybe being in their 30s on that. And when I first when we first got together, I I was just you know, in judgment, going, Oh my god, I have nothing in common with these people, like this is gonna be terrible. And I just you know, you could you just it's just such a lesson, like you just cannot judge people. And um we just became so bonded so quickly because you know, a few of the people in the group had, you know, really confronting health issues, and um, yeah, we through our quick sessions we just all broke down. I mean, it was it was basically two years of therapy ring. You realize when you go to art school it's really it's like life therapy as well. Yes, yes, it is, isn't it? Because and you're so vulnerable with each other, you know, you're really bearing it all to these small group of people, and they're becoming your family, and we just uh we just had the most incredible experience. Are you still in touch?

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Are you still in touch with a lot of them?

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Oh with our group Well Shang, we actually have no, we've we have drifted.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

We we're really good about staying in touch for a few years and then COVID hit and then it's kind of uh yeah, we had the WhatsApp group going. I still do keep in contact with a few of the members. Um but and then you know, I bump into some people every now and again. But now unfortunately we have we have um drifted apart as a group. Yeah, it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Like I found the same, like I went to national arts school and our cohort, I mean so many different ages of people, right? But like some of the people that I was the real closest with, they were and they are so much older than me. Like they come back in their late 50s after they'd retired to kind of, you know, do something a bit different. And do you know what? The relationships that I have kept through national arts school. Like I had people that came to my wedding a couple of years ago that are still like, and you know, one of the beautiful ladies, Annie, um, she lives in Kangaroo Valley, and uh we don't speak all the time, but every time we talk, I feel like it's a big warm hug that's like welcome home. And keeping in mind, I was like little wild, completely wild 18-year-old. And she was like, she was retired and she was like this steadiness, and she was an art therapist and a wig maker for the opera. So she was, oh my god, she was the most she she still is the most incredible human being. And um I still remember the really subtle way she used to like nurture me and and and stop me from having like opinions that were just young, arrogant opinions about about things. Like if I could do my time over again, I would go back. I would go and travel the world first and not go to university until later on. Like you I feel like I miss some really you do, you really do. And it's like I think now on like it's been go back again? Oh I've thought about I've thought about going back and doing my masters, and in actual fact, because I've been doing so much writing and I'm back in like my conceptual framework now. There has been a few times where I've thought, will I? And then I think like timing, my daughter's still young, and I just I feel like I've got all this momentum happening at the moment, and I'm just not ready to I'm not ready to kind of put things aside to kind of refocus on that just yeah, yeah. But it I I'll never say never. I'll never say never. Yeah, well, it's been such a pleasure to actually talk to you, not on like little mini voices.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

This is the first time I've actually spoken person to person, yes. Yeah, what's oh, where are we at with the moon? Where are we at with the moon? The moon, it's it's um it's new at the moment. I think it's nearly half it's half moon this this this weekend. Why?

SPEAKER_04 50:11

Oh, well, because the last time that we were talking, we were talking about all of the crazy things that were happening. So you know what happened with the car in the end that broke down.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

It smoked off of that huge full moon, yes. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Yeah, yeah, the car broke down. It's still in. We can't get it fixed until after the 18th of May. So I have no car. I'm I know, I know. And that that wasn't the only thing that happened. So that was one thing. My husband's car got this gigantic crack across the windscreen. Right. And I got home that night, I'm like, give me a match, give me a match. We had to break the third third match. I'm like, we can't have anything else happen. It's crazy. And then do you know what else was really funny? So last night I was um doing like a little card reading before bed, and out of the cards I pulled, because I was asking the question, I was like, give me some guidance as to this conversation that I'm gonna have with Diana Miller. And that's what I'm thinking about. I'm shuffling the cards. You know what came out? The full moon. It's like there's no way, yeah. And I was like, you cannot make this shit up. It was so funny. And I had a little giggle to myself, and I thought, of course, of course, okay, right on track. Thank you, message received. Uh so I think um you let me know when you're ready for me to play guinea pig with your f your with your breath work because I've never done it before, and I really, I really do want to give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Um I'm doing a session tonight with three uh three girlfriends who've never done breath before. So that's gonna be interesting. And uh, but I do have to do two practice sessions on Zoom. So if you're up, which is a good one. Oh, I'm totally up. I'm totally up for it.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Yeah, let's do it. Oh, such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

Oh, such a detail for you. Now, before we go, is there anything you want to leave anyone with? Is there anything um you can send me or I've got most of your links anyway, but if there's anything specific you want me to put into the show notes, um send me that. And I need a nice headshot of you as well. Um but is there anything else you want to leave people with? A final thought.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Oh golly.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Uh put me on the spot. A final thought. I mean joy. That's uh I need more joy in my life, and I think everybody needs more joy in their life, and I think we all need to create space to make more joy. People bring me joy. Yeah, and I know that yeah, I'm a I'm the person that brings all the people together. But I don't know, I just think sometimes people get I I feel like I'm the only I'm the only person doing it, but I'm the only person bringing people together. Everyone else, I don't know if it's an Australian thing. But I just think we people need to be with other people more. Yes, because people we all light each other up. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Just be kind. That's another thing.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

I think there's I think kindness goes a long way. I've had a lot of conversations over the last couple of weeks with people, and I think you know, the one thing I will say, I must not attract horrible people. Like, I must purely just attract beautiful people around me. I don't know anyone. Yeah. But that's it, and it's like I think all the people that are around me, they're genuinely kind people. They genuinely want to celebrate other people. Like, and I think joy, celebration, coming together.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Um, it's such a simple thing to do, you know, it doesn't take much.

SPEAKER_04 54:13

Oh, and on that note, you have a joyful rest of your day.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Lovely chatting with you.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

Yes, yes. Let's chat again soon. Um, and good luck with your gigantic commission. I cannot wait to see um that unfold. That is super, super, super exciting.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 54:37

Thanks, Corinne. Thanks. All right. Have a good one. Lovely chat.