Releasing Resistance in the Creative Process: Residency Debrief with Phoebe Stone

Daring Creatively: Unfiltered is an Australian art podcast where Sydney-based contemporary artist Korynn Morrison picks up the phone, drops a surprise topic into the conversation, and hits record.

This episode is a little different. There is no surprise topic today. Phoebe Stone and Korynn were both at The Corridor Project residency together recently and this is their debrief — the kind of honest, unplanned conversation that only happens when two artists have just spent a week making work side by side in the middle of nowhere.

Phoebe Stone is a Sydney-based artist known for her expressive, intuitive depictions of domestic life. Through urgent and immediate mark making she renders the intimate and the everyday, translating feeling and memory into form with a desire to hold onto beauty and fleeting experience. She has exhibited widely across Australia and internationally and has a solo show opening at Hake House on July 11th and work heading to Paris in September.

In this deeply honest conversation two artists talk about what the residency cracked open, the one sentence Phoebe said to Korynn that she has not stopped thinking about since, what happens when you release all resistance and just play, working intuitively with no plan and no agenda, frottage on rocks and happy accidents in the landscape, why raw unfiltered mark making carries a pulse that polished work sometimes doesn't, accidentally becoming an artist after leaving interior design, the pressure artists put on themselves to produce cohesive bodies of work and why that can get in the way, and what it actually feels like when you give yourself permission to just show up and respond.

If you love art podcasts, conversations about the creative process, or you have ever felt resistance creeping into your practice and wondered how to release it, this one is for you.

New episodes drop whenever the call happens.

Phoebe Stone Relevant Links:

Phoebe Stone website HERE.

Phoebe's Instagram HERE.

Solo Exhibition at Hake House 10 July - 25th July (Opening event Saturday July 11th 1-3pm).

Tappan Collective Group Show "Tether"

Join My Inner Circle: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/mailing-list

Visit My Website: https://www.korynnmorrison.com/

Find me on Instagram HERE

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Now, today's episode is a little bit different because Phoebe Stone and I were away at the Corridor Project Residency together. And I wanted to take the time to have a little bit of a conversation, which is more like a residency debrief. We kind of meander our way through many topics in this conversation. And, you know, I left the phone call and I thought that was exactly what I needed to hear today. She's kind of one of those really authentic, intuitive wisdom keepers that just give you permission to speak your truth. And that's exactly what this conversation ended up being, I think, for the both of us. Um let me tell you a bit about Phoebe. She's a Sydney-based artist known for her expressive, intuitive depictions of domestic life. Through urgent and immediate mark making, she renders the intimate and the everyday. For Phoebe, the act of creating is as significant as the finished piece. A meditative process of translating feeling and memory into form, underpinned by a desire to hold on to beauty and fleeting experience. She has exhibited in numerous group and solo shows and is represented in private collections both in Australia and internationally. She also has a solo show coming up at Hake House, which opens on July 11th, and will be exhibiting work in Paris in September. Now, you really do need to get a cup of tea for this one. I am I think this conversation's gonna be really relatable for many people. And um, I know it's one that I'm going to listen back to time and time and time again. So let's dive in. Hey guys, welcome to Daring Creatively Unfiltered, where I call up an artist's friend, throw a surprise topic into the conversation, and hit record. No plan, no prep, no agenda, just two creatives having a chat. I'm Karin Morrison, Australian artist, cup overflowing personality, and someone who genuinely gets way too excited talking about the creative life. My guests are artists at every stage of the journey. And the conversations that happen when nobody's performing, those are the ones that we really need to hear. So grab a coffee, get into your studio and come hang with us. This is Daring Creatively Unfiltered. Let's go. This call could not come at a better time, actually. I was like, I've been in the studio since early this morning, and I've been playing around with a whole bunch of these residency kind of theories for the first time, big. And I was just getting to that point that I was starting to tighten up. I'm like, okay, tools down. Time to call Phoebe.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Well, that is good timing. You're so good. I have not done anything but go down to like my little workshop and spray artworks with fixative. That's about as creative as I've been this morning.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

So yeah, but you're so close to your show now. All the work must be. Is it all done now? Most of the work?

SPEAKER_03 3:38

It's done. It's all done. It's just a matter of um some of the the couple of bigger pieces that I've got in there. Just it's like one that basically just still needs like a bit more fixative. Like it's just there's like a patch here or there where the pastel was thicker and it just hasn't dried yet. Like I need to get those pieces to my framer that I was hoping I could do today. But I think I need another day, just a couple more coats just to cover those like thicker patches. So it's just hard, it's a little unpredictable. It's sort of like because pastel never truly dries. It's not like you wait for it to dry and then you apply like a few coats of fixative and you're good. It's sort of like you just gotta keep spraying until you know when you touch it, it doesn't smudge or come off or anything. So yeah, yeah. Like pretty much every other piece is fine. It's just this one piece had like a few more layers. It was a bit thicker in parts. And anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

That's so what when you say big, what's big for you?

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Because you usually don't work huge, do you? Honestly, it's small. You would it's not big, but it's big for me. So the the bigger pieces I tend to do would be like 60 by 90, which seems huge for me. Every now and then I'll do like a 1200 by 800, but that's rare. I tend to work on a much more intimate scale. Um 60 by 90 is like the biggest piece I'll usually do, or more commonly do perhaps. Like there might be a little outlier here or there.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Makes sense though with the oil pastels. Makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

My goodness, do you go through a lot of them? And they aren't cheap. Um, the bigger you work. And it was funny, actually, something I realized on the residency um was that I tend to work in a format that's um what's that saying? Basically, like I work very quickly, intuitively. I'm moving and I'm constantly sort of scanning a piece. And whilst I may be drawing something from life or reference photo, it sort of becomes its own thing when it's on the board and when I'm sort of starting to make all these marks. And like I might just all of a sudden like notice it's like it needs this color here or this texture, and I want to instantly do it, and I don't want to have to move too far. Like I kind of like to feel at arm's reach, and I've realized that's just how I like to work. So I think that might be one of the things that's always fed into the um size of the works I make. Like I feel like complete sense that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

I don't know, but is that strange?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Because I'm often not at all sitting, often sitting at my easel. Um, and I like to kind of just quickly, you know, move and like I don't like it to be further away than like an arm stretch. Um look, my studio is also reasonably small, so I think that adds to it as well. But I think there's just that sort of like very intimate, sort of like human scale to it as well, which I think I'm interested in, which attracts me.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

So and they're so intimate your pieces as well. Like when you when you go into the detail of your works, they do feel like such beautiful, intimate objects. I almost I think you would lose a lot of that intimacy when you, if you were to try and do what you do big. However, at the residency, you were playing around with a lot of solvent and whatnot. And I'm like curious to see what happens here now.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah, yeah. I have been doing that for a little bit. Um I sort of, it's funny, I always say what I do is drawing. I'm like, it's bascals, it's drawing, but I actually have over the last sort of year or two introduced sort of solvent and I'm working with brushes as well and moving the sort of pigment around the board. And um, I really enjoy that. It also just sort of helps with the layering. I think I sort of started doing it accidentally, really, when I had a piece that I just decided wasn't working for whatever reason, which is so rare for me. Like I'm very, like, I'm so happy making art that I'm so I'm really displeased with what's there because I'm just it's enjoying the process for me. And like usually like that just gives me so much that it's like, yeah, great. Look, I've done this, but I'm not, I'm not striving for a masterpiece every time I'm making art. I'm just like so thankful to be making art. But there was a piece one day where I was just like, do you know what? Something's like off and I wasn't feeling it. And I think I sort of, you know, got the soundpaper out, got the solvent, stripped it back as much as I could. Um, and then probably a few days later, I actually just kind of picked that up and I was sort of like, I've got this sort of like really interesting like layering here. And I was like, I quite like how washy and light this has gone with that solvent. So I just sort of built on top of it. Um I started doing that a little bit more like intentionally. Like I've got so many little scraps and nubs of pastels that I was just getting them and sort of just like dragging them across the board and creating colour and then washing them all out with solvent and then layering on that. And then I'd even start sort of yeah, mixing like solvent and you know, running the brush over different parts of the built-up image. Um and I just really like that because I think for me, a lot of what I'm working on a lot of the time, it's sometimes imagery that's sort of right there in front of me that sometimes it's sort of working from memories, or it might be a photo I I took and now I'm removed from it. So it's like, how did that make me feel? It's like not everything's really clear, not every detail. So I like the way that when I'm sort of doing thinner layers and washing and taking back and putting over, but it's not as in focus, it's not super sharp or clear. And for me, that really relates to me trying to grasp at that feeling and that imagery.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

But I find it interesting that you say that because it's like when I look at your works, the one thing I really love about them is that they have this ability for you to place your own story in them. And I think like a lot of the compositions, whether they be figurative or more still life, or like those, the ones that you put up of the internal space of the room at the residency. I just feel like there's something um very universal about your work. Like you're not honing in on so much detail that it doesn't leave any room for people to create their own story and like that. Absolutely. That's what I really pull from your work. And I think you do it in such a successful way without trying to kind of make a painting or make a drawing, so to speak. And I think that speaks so much to exactly what you were just saying there about like your level of curiosity when you approach your process. I feel like I have so much to learn from that because I am a striver. Like I'm one of those people where it starts off really curious and really playful. And I mean, this is why I wanted to have this conversation. And there is literally, I didn't even write questions down because I knew that me and you are just gonna sit here and riff on what we got out in the residency. But there were so many one-liners that were just little bypassing conversations between me and you that I felt like I got so much out of. And one of the things you said to me that has, oh man, it penetrated so deep. I went and I wrote it down and I have not stopped thinking about it. You said it was after our crit session with the incredible Lucy Stranger. And it was fascinating how for me, the tiny little thumbnail sketches that I just have always done, and I literally think nothing of them because I haven't put enough effort into them. Like they've been way too fun and free and fast-paced. And, you know, they're not me trying to do anything. They're me literally just absorbing the world and putting it on paper. Now, literally, this is what I educate people on all the time, right? So, this is the exact conversation I speak to other artists, and yet I struggle so much in way of loosening up and keeping that, um, keeping things not rigid. And so what you said to me, and it was, yeah, it was after everyone went, oh, those thumbnails are really beautiful. And I'm like, oh, really? That's really fascinating that people think that. And then you said to me, Well, what if what if you don't have to excavate anymore? And it was after we'd had a lot of sit-down tarot readings and we'd done a lot of investigation on our little internal patterns. And one of the things that I have, I'm constantly guilty of is this constant pursuit of making something better, constant pursuit of self-growth. How can I dig down further? How can I be more of myself, you know? And in this one statement that you said, what if you didn't have to excavate? What if you'd already arrived? And I was like, ooh, it just hit on such a soul level. And then to come full circle after you said that, it was really interesting the timing of the whole residency because I kind of had these two US works that were on the panel, they were like in that um home stretch state. So I knew exactly where they were going and what more I had to do, but I had to put them aside while I went on the residency. And so I came back after the residency with all these juicy, fresh ideas and perspectives and that one line of sentence that you left me with. And it was really interesting. I was standing in front of the panel and on the wall, right next to it, it said, be here now. And it was something that I'd already written on the wall like a long time ago, but it just stood out. And I got to thinking to myself, okay, what if it was already done? You know, this statement dropped into me. It was like, what if this painting had already been painted on a future timeline? Like, how would you show up today to this work looking at what's already here, knowing it's already done? It's already hanging in someone's home, it's already gotten itself to the US, they put it up at the fair, it got heaps of exposure. Like, what if I took that attitude into this painting versus me trying to force it to completion, trying to go, how can I make it better? How can I excavate further? And literally in the moment that all of this was brewing in my head, I looked at it and I went, Do you know what? There's not that much more to go. I think I'm gonna just sand a little bit here, just a little bit here. And the normal things that I would so rigidly kind of fuss over, I immediately just knew to leave them. And it was just this really interesting thing, and it was because of exactly what you said. What if you'd already arrived? And so ever since the residency, when I've been showing up in the studio, and I did a big moving around of everything. So I moved, um, like I've got this really long table that's always sat kind of at the end of the studio. I pulled it towards like kind of the middle of the studio, and I've set up this little works on paper area to kind of force myself to kind of take the works on paper a little bit more seriously. And um yeah, I've made a lot more space for some more bigger work, and I just thought, well, I don't know what's gonna happen here, but I'm gonna take that attitude into everything that I'm doing. Like, what if it's already done? What if I don't have to just keep it at something? What if it's what if not everything needs to be excavated? And so literally yesterday I started this big, like I just pulled out the biggest panel that I've got in the storage back there. And because I never ever ever feel like working small. It's the one thing that shits me up the wall. I'm like, I just want to go big and then I want to go bigger, and I want to go bigger and bigger and bigger. And so I pulled out the panel and I looked at all the drawings, I just scattered them all over the floor and pinned some up on the wall. I thought, which one kind of speaks to that immediacy, that there's something in it that was just so perfect exactly how it is. And I pulled out a couple of drawings and I just started um yeah, going to town on this big panel in the same way as what I would those little thumbnail sketches. So yeah, and now I'm excited to see that. Oh, I I'm gonna do an accountability post. I will I'm gonna post something up because it's really interesting what's happening. So, like literally the exact same way that I was approaching those tiny thumbnails, I've done on the panel. But of course, when you size things up, it forces you to think outside the box because where I was pulling things off the gel plate and working plain air and rubbing things across the surface of rock, it's like all of those little things. I'm like, okay, well, how can I do that at scale? So there's a lot of like how-tos that are bubbling over.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

I think, I think, and this is for me, it's like no how-tos, no figuring out how to do it before. Yeah, just do it on the thing. Like it doesn't have to be a final piece. It is the process, it is the experimentation, it is the learning. Yeah, that piece. So I work so I mean I work so differently to many artists in that I don't really do preparatory anything. Like I don't do preparatory sketches, I just kind of launch into it and see where it takes me, I think. So I like I don't keep a sketchbook. I want to. It seems so dreamy and romantic. And your sketchbook, oh my god, I was in love with it. Like I would have just bought it because as a beautiful coffee table book, but also just like, oh, so it was so beautiful to be in there and the immediacy and the life in those tiny little words were just like, you know, they were so big because of how powerful they felt, even though they were so teeny tiny, like they were a thumbnail. This wasn't like an A5, this was a tiny snippet. That's so powerful. And like even listening, like I'm so interested to see how you translate that way of working to a bigger panel. I'm also like, why are we translating? Just yeah, do take some small, loose pieces of paper out and do that same thing, and then come back and frame them.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, no, I'm in a way as well. I know, I know exactly what you're saying. And it's like I got the ones there from the residency and I am gonna frame them. And I was looking, so what I've got, because of the way I've set the studio up with the works on paper table, I'm gonna go and get like some like slightly larger sheets of paper, but still have the same sized thumbnail and grid it all up and just keep working on the big piece of paper and then yeah, definitely use that for sure as a feature.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

I'm not saying don't translate to panel. I think because I think I'm always just about exploring. So it's like do the thing, see where it takes you. Who knows if it's gonna work or not, or but do it, like do both and play with that. But I'm not a big I just I think I chatted to you guys about this on the residency. I'm like, I am so good at overthinking my entire life. Like, you know, I've got young kids, I'm you know, working, you know, full-time working as an artist as well. And I have a sort of little secondary art business, and I and I'm doing all these things and juggling, and I'm like, and I overthink tremendously. And I'm like, when I'm making art, I can't think. I'm done with thinking. I'm just like being and playing and exploring and just like letting whatever emotion I've come to the studio with that day find an outlet. And so it's funny, my work, you know, I've got this solo show coming up, and you can sort of look at the work. Um what dates are those? Technically opens on July 10. The opening sort of celebrations uh is July 11, one till three in the afternoon, which I think is really nice in winter because it's hard to go out at night when it's dark and cold. Yeah. So it'll be nice little one to three afternoon thingy, which will be lovely up at H in DY.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

But it's funny. I feel like you can really like see my moods and like how I was feeling or what I'm responding to with the way colour palette shifts and the way I've played with focus. Some things are a more sort of detailed and there's a bit more clarity. I mean, my clarity is always like a bit muddy and organic and sketchy. Um, but some like I've really, like, I've really wiped back and they're almost barely there. And I was really some days, I was really just like playing with these memories I could barely hold on to like spits from when I've traveled in the past, and like, oh, like remember there was this villa like in this really dense wood in the distance, and we're trying to get to it, and I couldn't quite remember what it looked like. And so it's uh it's funny, things are coming so sort of meandering in and out of focus in this show. And I was sort of laughing. I'm like, oh my god, like is I this is a like does this have to be a cohesive body of work? I don't know. I'm like, I I rarely work like that. I just get into the studio and I'm like, who am I today? What am I making today? Who knows? Let's pick up a puzzle and see what it does. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So it's interesting, but I think I've actually, funnily enough, I'm looking at them and I'm seeing these sort of groups of narratives. Like, I want I wasn't really intending it, but I'm looking, I'm like, oh, look at this sort of like house I've drawn here. But then there's this sort of still life scene. But I'm like, oh, that scene lives in that house. And it wasn't what I intended to do, but I'm like, oh, but it does. And then this is later in the afternoon. And it's like, it's funny. I've got all these funny little narratives going through it that just sort of appeared. And I'm like, I must, was I making these works around the same time? Because obviously I've done this over a few months. So yeah, it's funny the way they connect, but it wasn't intentional. Like so little of what I do is intentional. Bar like sometimes I'm like, oh, I saw this really good thing the other day. I've got a photo. I'm going to go back and look at it. I'm going to that's what I'm going to be drawing today. And it's more that I have like the way I approach it is I'm like, I have a need to draw. Like I need to go to my studio. I need to pick up my pastels. I need to just draw. And like I said, just like whatever emotion, let it find a way out. Um so it's sort of like sometimes I get down there, I'm like, right, what am I doing today? No idea. And I might look through photos, I might look through magazines, I might just sort of scan my brain for memories of something that I've stored away there that was sort of just visually pleasing to me. And I'll start doing it.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

That's sort of how I work. And I guess I don't, like I said, I don't really plan and I don't think I ask anything of my art. I actually, this is gonna sound like so silly, but like I'm not asking anything of it. I'm not asking it to be anything, I'm not really asking it to do anything. I honestly sit there and I'm like thanking it. I'm like, thank you that you're a part of my life. Like, thank, thank you that I get to come sit down here and spend time doing this. I'm like, this is such a joy for me, and this is what I need. Like, I'm ruined. I can't go and do anything else now. Like, this is my night to five. I need to get up and I just need to be in the presence of my materials and be in my studio and just have that beautiful moment where it's just my hands moving across the surface, and there is something coming to life. Um absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I think you are thinking everything that I like all the lessons that I really, really, really need to hear exactly at that point. And I knew that this would happen when we had our conversation, our beautiful little intuitive um uh little newfound friendship that we've we've now got. And then I did I actually pulled you a card this morning, which you can't make this shit up, right? Okay. So my sign for like the spiritual people in my life, like when you know, beautiful connections and things happen is a white owl. And of course, I right off the top of the bat pulled the white owl for you, and I was like, yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

You know what's so funny. I was drawing with my son last night, and we he was doing this thing where he did a little shape, and then I turned it into an animal, and I did a white barn owl. Oh my god, you're kidding.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

No, oh, that's so weird. I've got okay, I've literally got the deck here with me. I'm gonna read it to you. I'll read it to you. Please do. Okay. So I thought, I was thinking to myself as I um as I pulled it, hmm, this card's gonna be for Phoebe. Okay, what what is gonna come out in regards to Phoebe? And it's victory, glory, and triumph. Six of Wands. Victory is uh imminent. If you've been doubting yourself recently, you'll soon see that this was time wasted. People in power will notice your efforts and reward you properly. Lovers will declare their feelings of affection and dedication. Stars will align just so and shine generously in your direction. Bask in the glory, dear one. You have been through many tribulations, and now it's time to enjoy the triumph. This card signifies that you have earned this place of success and you will ride high for quite some time. And in interestingly enough, I feel like every single time I had a conversation with you on the residency, I feel like you are one of those people that gave me permission to just be me, exactly how I am, without forcing anything, just actually being able to arrive. And so as I was like reading that this morning, I just thought that could not be more perfect and more accurate for the kind of person that you are for other people as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

I'm such a believer in that though, because I mean, like we've all struggled with that, with you know, trying to live up to some expectation we've set for ourselves and constantly worrying what we're achieving. And I just think, gosh, what a waste! And like I'm so guilty of it myself. It's so funny. I had um I had a bit of a realization this week. Like I think I was at the beginning of this week, I think, like just oh my gosh, PMS going so hard. And I was just feeling so flat. But at the same, like I had this morning just trying to get the kids out the door for school, and it was just such a stress. And anyway, they got to school. I went and I was like, do you know what? Like, I'm just gonna go have a nice long, relaxing bath. And I came out, and I just had this moment where I was like, Why have I been telling myself I'm not capable?

SPEAKER_02 27:41

When? When was that when have I ever proved that to be the case? I was like, what? I'm like, I'm so capable, I'm so ready for more.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

And I think, you know, since becoming a mother, you know, I think my daughter's seven um and my son's four, but I think, you know, a lot was really there was a lot of upheaval when I had kids and when I was going through that process of matrescence, which was such a thing. And I really shook up a lot of ideas I had about myself, but also probably narratives I was telling myself about what I wanted and how I should be and what I should be achieving. And that was really shaken up. Then of course, COVID shook that up further. And that's when I left my job as an interior designer and I started pursuing art. And by say pursuing, I didn't even think I was really doing that. I just started making time for art and it just kind of overtook everything else. And I was just sort of making more and more and spending more time on it and taking less sort of freelance design jobs. Like I always joke that I accidentally became an artist, but you know, I was working at it. Um, but it wasn't like I'd sort of set a goal for myself to go and do it, which is a lot of what I'm saying. I'm like, what are all these goals? Like, whose metrics are these? Why do I need them? Like, why can't I just be? But, you know, a lot of that sort of had shaken my confidence prior to sort of doing that. And even then in the sort of art world, it's sort of like, you know, am I showing regularly enough? Like, you know, is my art to a standard? Am I impressing the right people? And then I'm like, why do I even care? Because all I really want to do is just go sit down there and make art. And half the time I don't even really care what I'm making. Like as long as I'm responding to it and I am enjoying the process and I'm just creating something for me that feels just beautiful and light and you know, not weighed down by God, all the forces it be that just feel so heavy at the moment. Do I really want anything more at all? And yeah, I think, and you know what? Like, God, there's just a level of exhaustion with motherhood, isn't there? Like, you know, oh my god, isn't there some days I've got time for the studio, but I'm like, I'm so shattered this week. And so I think I had this little voice that crept in, being like, Oh, you're not ready, like you're not capable, and then just snapped this week. And I was like, I've been telling myself that I'm so capable. Give me more. Like, I've I've got heaps of stuff I want to do and can do, and let's just do it. And I actually, funnily enough, I pulled a card for myself at the beginning of the week and trying to get into more of a habit of being like, all right, like what's my message for the week? And I pulled the chariot this week, which is like an important achievement, self-discipline, willpower, public recognition. So very in line with the card that you pulled for the funny that it just came with this moment that just honestly came out of nowhere where I was just like, wait, why have I been telling myself I'm not capable? I am of all sorts. Like I just, it was so funny. It was such a moment of clarity, and I've been really writing that for the rest of the week, actually.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

But it's because you gave your permission yourself permission to have space, and I think that speaks to exactly what um, you know, what you're giving other people permission to do, even by speaking this is actually just like release the oars, people. Stop fucking rowing all the time. Like just calm your farm and embrace the fact that you're you're creating because it's fucking fun.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Like it's so good. Like just like nothing feeds my soul like that. I mean, apart from my beautiful children. Um, nothing feeds my soul the way that does. And I'm like, I couldn't, couldn't go back to doing anything else. Like, I need this in my life. And I truly think this is actually my purpose, really. Like, I am meant to do this. This is what feels so in alignment for me, and I haven't felt that with anything else. Even when I was really, really good at it, like other jobs, everything, so good at it.

unknown 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

It didn't, it didn't feel as aligned as this does. And I just think that's so important. But we really get time to sort of really check in with ourselves and feel like, like, what are we aligned with? Like, what is it that we need? We we're so busy being productive all the time that we don't have that space. And I think the residency was so good for that. Like, I I turned up with no agenda. Like, I, you know, Marissa Belle reached out and asked me about it. I'm like, I've always wanted to do a residency, but I am just like, I would so never organize that for myself. I probably like I'd like, you know, this this narrative that I've that I've had that I'm like overwhelmed and just can't, like, I probably could have, but I would have told myself, like, oh, that's probably too hard for me to figure out right now. Yeah. So it almost fell in, it fell in my lap. And I was like, that's really good. I will time that with the ending of the works for my show. And I went with no agenda. Like, you know, I'll be the first to say it. I'm not really a landscape artist. And when I when I do do landscapes, because that's what I'm, you know, craving in a moment when I'm in the studio, it's if anything, it might be a bit coastal because I've kind of grown up on the coast of Australia. It might be, you know, something from a coast overseas. I am very drawn to water. I mean, I'm a cancer, after all, very drawn to water. But the Australian landscape has seemed out of bounds to me before I can do that. Like it is so expansive. It is so daunting for me. I'm like, how do you put, how do you translate that? There is so much depth. There is history, there's so many elements of beauty and life. And there's so like there's so many pulses running through it. I'm like, I whoa, like I have no idea how anyone does it. And I'm always flawed when people really capture that, when they capture it beating. Like I need to see things that are alive. I don't care what what marks are being put down. I'm not into any particular sort of stylistic aesthetic genre of art. But like when I see something that manages to sort of carry a pulse through it, I'm like, oh, like that's good, that hits. But I'm like, I can't, I can't do that. Um I came with no agenda. I was like, I just want to see what, like, let's play. Let's do that. I'm always working on shows. I'm almost never not working on a show. And I was sort of just like, oh my god, I can just go play. I can't. I didn't even, I almost didn't even think I would even try and touch the landscape. I was like, it's a beautiful space. I'll probably just do some interior scenes, some still lives, you know, maybe I'll do some people in the interiors. But like, I was so drawn into that landscape. It was like, you know, picnic and hanging rock vibes, the way it was just sort of like drawing me in. And I I just enjoyed it so thoroughly.

unknown 34:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

And it gave me, I'm sorry, go.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

I think I've lost my thought. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Go on. Sorry, I was all I was gonna say is, and I think like I think it's also that we're so we're so in our vortex of motherhood and just going through the daily rhythm. And when you can create a rhythm that is so different from your regular rhythm, you have no choice but to really sink into it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You were you were on that back deck. I actually I might use that photo of you. Do you mind if I use that photo of you? You know the one that I took of you while you were standing on the back deck?

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah. Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

That might be a good podcast episode. Um yeah, I'll use that photo. It's a really good photo of you, actually.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Um I can't remember it, but good.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I'll I'll send it to you for approval first. But I found it really interesting how even the way that you're approaching the landscape just speaks so much to this level of curiosity that has resonated through this entire conversation. In watching you kind of, you were you you were drawing on the different coloured papers, and then the way that you were just placing the paper on top of each other almost created its own thing. And then you were putting the rocks to hold the paper so the paper wasn't blowing. And then we were all saying, Oh wow, those rocks feel like they need to be there. Like I know, I wish I could have taken them. So good, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 36:10

No, well, I mean, I think like I'm I'm just curious. Like I always have been, and like I'm so like there's so many ways you can make art and approach art and do art. Like, how amazing. Like that, you could wake up every day and do something different and just like never run out of approaches. And it's I love learning and just seeing things and learning by doing and playing, and I love happy coincidences and just you know, when you just do something, you're like, oh my wow, that's beautiful. Like, I love I love what's happened here. And I had no intention to attempt to make it, but there it is, and it's it's everything that was needed here. And you know, I didn't, I don't have formal art training. Um, you know, I went to like a special arts high school at Mossman High and I did, you know, additional art during the week, but I didn't go to art school. Um, I studied interior architecture instead. I was way too scared to like try and follow a career in art. Like, you know, that narrative is so pervasive. Like, oh, it's impossible to make it in the arts. Like, don't even try. Like, even if you've got talent. Um, and yeah, like I wasn't, I wasn't bold enough to do that. So I didn't. But you know, I I never stopped making. I just didn't ever take it seriously or think it was really anything of value. It was just something I did for myself. Um, you know, even you know, I'd have friends who were like, oh my gosh, that's so lovely. Could you do something like that for me? And I'd be like, Yeah, sure, like give me an excuse to be making art. Um but so I think like I've always had to do by just playing. Like, I was so funny when I think I was out that first day and I literally had no idea what to do. I was like, right, here I am. It's like I have no fun. And I just like grabbed some paper that had been in my studio for like this beautiful handmade paper that had been in my studio for like four years. They took that out. I was like, right, okay. Well, I've got my little box of pestels, I've got this paper. I'm like, I might just go for a walk and just stop every now and then and draw something that I like wherever I am, and just like, you know, just overlaying it over each other. And then, you know, when it was like drizzling with light rain and it's kind of it was it felt very adventurous. And then I at one point I just stopped and I was like, ooh, like look at this rock with its lichens, and I like, you know, I was like, I know what rubbing is, so I went down. I was like, I'll do some like rubbings, or you know, I lay it down on the rock and I was doing that, and I think I might have posted a picture. Someone lovely, it could have been the gorgeous Emily Heath. She's like, Oh, you've been frottaging?

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Oh, and I was like, Yes. I was like, what is that? Fritaging, proteaging, and I was like, fruitage. I was like, I was like, what am I doing? And this art school thing, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

I put the face on the rock and I rubbed it. And she's like, Yes, that's it. I was like, oh, well, there you go. That's what I'm doing. Uh like I had no idea, but I had a lot of fun doing that. Um so it's like I always just have to like, it just has to be curiosity and play because I'm like, I don't have any like formal sort of like this is what you should be doing, or this is and it's like I also have no interest in having that. Like so many people that are like, Oh, I really want to learn how to do this.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

I'm like, hmm, just figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

I could, but I'm like, I just like I can't be bothered and I don't want to like as soon as I have to do something a certain way, I'm like, not interested. Like, so I just have to kind of figure bits and pieces out. And doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in something, like it was so great having Eve there. I'm like, oh, I got a jelly plate, and I tried to do it, obviously with zero instruction or bothering to look anything up, and it wasn't great, and so you know, I got her to sort of show me the process. I was like, oh, okay, that makes that's yeah, I can see why that works for you. Yeah. Um so I was like, right, I will note that and I will try and do that next time I decide I want to play with a jelly plate. Um, but that's just like how I like to do things. Like I wait for a need to come up, or if there's something I'm trying to capture and I'm not feeling that it's like, you know, hitting the mark or whatever, like, and then if I I just have to, yeah, I just keep playing until it just needs to be where it is, really. There's really no other way to describe it. But it's so good because so many other aspects of our lives have to be, you know, I can't really take that approach to um, you know, things. Parenting, like, I kind of need to know when I've got to sign permission slips and what to pack and when and you know, actually help my daughter prepare her topic talk. I can't just be like, just get there and make it up. Like, you know, I've got, you know, they've got to be a bit more organized in like the day-to-day existence. And I'm like, it's so nice to step away from that. I'm like, you know, who says I have to do it any other way? And I think for a while when I first started, because it was just like it was so unexpected, that I was kind of, I was a bit worried. I was like, oh, what if someone finds out I'm doing it like this? Yeah, imposter syndrome. Do I need to be doing this a different way? Like, what if someone finds out that I'm just I'm just actually going to my studio and having fun? Like, maybe I need more intent. Like, you know, and it's like even with shows, like when I first like had a solo show, I was like, all right, I've got to come up with some sort of theme and make this cohesive body of work. And it's just not naturally how I work. I mean, the shows are beautiful, and like to anyone else, like great, beautiful, cohesive show. But I'm like, it's just not naturally how I am as an artist. So I'm like, so why am I forcing it to be that? So I have, you know, for this upcoming solo, really embraced the fact that I have a very curious, wandering mind that likes to do different things. Yeah, amazing. I think why mark making's always there. You know, it evolves, it has different elements and layers to it. And sometimes there's more of one approach, and sometimes there's more of another in a piece. But I'm like, that's who I am. Like it if you're into my art, you're kind of gonna be down for that a bit.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah, 100%. And I think that's why your work, you know, is all over the shop, not the work itself. Like, I mean all over the world now, because you've got you've got um when do you leave for Paris actually? Oh Paris is that's that's September.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

So okay, so you got a little bit of time before then. I've got a little bit of time, a little bit to organise before then. But yes, I am in Paris in September, and I'm getting to exhibit a body of work with um Shop Object, which is a design trade show, actually. So like a very beautiful sort of luxury design object-based trade show, and they have a show in Paris in September. And what this beautiful, beautiful company does is they pick an artist of the season and basically invite them to it's the shows around in New York and Paris, and invite them to be their artists of the season. They use their artwork for their visual identity and you know, a lot of the um like set the length, you know, the like the vibe of the show, visual identity, all that sort of thing. But they also give you a booth where you have the ability to sell art. They don't take a commission, they also give you an exhibition space, they sort of promote you, and yeah, they you get to go. And so out of nowhere, I got this invite to come to Paris in September. And I'll be running workshops. The fair's on for about three days, I think. And I'll do workshops, um, I'll have work up, I'll be making art while I'm there, and I am so excited.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Oh, it just sounds like what an opportunity! Oh, amazing. It couldn't be any better, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:39

So like it's just I'm just like that. I'm look, I know it's not at an art fair um or at a gallery there, but I'm like, oh, this is still me taking work to Paris and like showing work in Paris, and also it's an opportunity to be back in Paris. Um I'm really thrilled for that. So I'm sort of working. On pieces for that on the moment. It's all works on paper just because it would have been way too much to bring. Um I I work on board a lot and that just would have been a nightmare. So it's all works on paper.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Um so I've got that. I've just I think almost Is Tay Pen the Tay Pen show still on Japan that so when I work with Japan at the moment, I basically send them like a selection of works.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

So I think I sent them 15 works. When was that? For April. And so some of those works were put into two different shows, two different group shows, I think. And then in general, the that the other work is just sort of there in the space online, and that's all sold out. So that's been really good. And I think I will do another release of works with them, is scheduled for January next year.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Oh, amazing. They do such good social media marketing. They're um everything that they put up is like, whoa. I'm like, wow, their events, I would be getting the most severe FOMO if I was you. Every time they host an event, I'm like, oh my god, they look unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

They look beautiful, like so much effort put in. Like, I think it's a very well-curated gallery. They've been really like their communication's been excellent. Um, so that's that's been really lovely. Um, so yeah, it's so funny. I think back to sort of when I started and when I started showing and just being like, I remember when I had my first opportunity to show works um with Michael Reed and the Northern Beaches, and when Amber had contacted me about it, and I was just like, oh, a real gallery. So I'd just been selling works on Instagram prior to that. And honestly, I'd only been doing that for about three months. Yeah. And then sort of got this site message like, hey, would you be interested? We really love your work. And I was just like, oh, why? And like I was so shocked. I was like, really? Um and now it's like, you know, I show every year, you know, within Australia, there's a few galleries I work with. I'm yeah, sending works off to LA now. I've got this sort of event in Paris, and I'm like, whoa, like that's pretty amazing. Like, this is my art doing all of this.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

And you haven't forced a single thing. You have literally shown up as your curious self every single day. These opportunities like this is a perfect example of releasing resistance. Like a perfect example of that.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

I I don't, I have like I always sort of say it. I've had like a really sort of lucky and very fortunate sort of run so far where, like, you know, I I haven't approached galleries, they usually approach me. I haven't chased anything, but it all comes back to this, I think, this sort of stance that I have that I haven't, you know, formulated. It's just that I'm not asking anything from my art. I'm not asking anything from each individual artwork. I'm not really asking anything of my art practice in general. Like, you know, I so love when things happen. I'm like, oh, this is amazing. Like, this is beautiful progression, like this is so good to see. And I'm like, you know, and there are things I say no to, there are things that don't always feel right, right. And it's taken me a while to just know that. And the only thing I know is like, I just go with my gut now. And like, yeah, I've learned to really listen to it. And like, I think I think with everything in life, the more you're like really desperately trying, like there is this almost, there is this resistance. And I just think I've just let go of it all. And things seem to come along. Like, that's probably a pretty scary way to exist for some people. Like, up until I don't know, a couple of days ago when um Japan contacted me and was like, right, when can we do the next release of works? I had no idea what was happening in 2027. I know some artists have it like a couple of years booked in advance, but I was like, oh, I had nothing booked, nothing planned. Like, who knows? We'll see. Fingers crossed, I can still make and sell art.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Um, I think we just get really good at kind of wading around in the unknown space. And it's like, I think that that's where a lot of creatives have a bit of a gift, you know. I think it's uh it's a superhero cape if you can learn to um just be okay showing up and you know, allowing enough space for things to come in when they when the timing is right. Like I'm such a firm believer in that everything happens in perfect timing. And if that's one thing that I think um motherhood has taught me more than anything else, is that at a certain point you just gotta, you know, kind of move with the river a little bit. There's no point trying to force the stream in a different direction. You can have, like, for me, I am one of those people where, you know, I have my goals, but I am not holding on to them as tightly as what I would pre-children. Pre-children, it was like me being a shark. And if I wasn't moving, I was freaking dying, you know? And now I think parenting has just taught me, well, you have to surrender. You have to sit still.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

Yeah. And I think I think you can have those goals, but I think it's also taking the time to make sure they're your goals. Yes. Like 100% in a picture. Like it's not someone else's metric, it's not what you think it should be. It's like, this is actually what I really want. And like really sit with it because sometimes I think we find that we don't really want the things we do. Like what ourselves we want, and sometimes we don't. So I think it's like let yourself be a bit uncomfortable and like sit really sit with what you think you want and figure out if that is in fact it. Um, and I try and do this regularly because it's very easy to get caught up in things.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you know what I love about this entire comp conversation is just the pure simplicity of it? Like how how simple and yet how challenging is this concept, yeah, is this concept of just um showing up, not taking things too seriously, just having a bit of fun, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Just who are you today? Respond to that, let that come out. You don't like have to force yourself into a pick particular and like in art as well. It's like you just you know, you may make a certain style of art, but you might want to get in a studio and you just want to do something completely different, or you're not in the like I think a lot of people are like, I've got to make this kind of art because this is my art that sells. And that may still serve you, it may not. You may be ready to move on, and it's hard because you get pressures from galleries and things. I mean, I've been very lucky to pretty much have zero pressure from galleries, but sometimes that's there and they want a certain thing because they've been marketing you as that. But sometimes you have to give yourself permission to just be like, I need to respond to me and now and make that. And yeah, that can be really hard to do. Um, but I think I could I couldn't do it any other way. Like I'm just yeah, it's so it's just so a part of how I make art that I just I've just gotta respond to whatever's going on in my day or in my life. And it and I'm not saying that I'm sort of um it's not that I'm making imagery that's necessarily being like this is a documentation of this, but it's just it's gonna come out somehow. Like, you know, my color palette might shift, the haziness of something might shift. Like, you know, it's just there. And if I was trying to work to some sort of formula, like it wouldn't work and it wouldn't be the same. And I think people can see that in art. Like, I think that's what gives it like you know, the pulse and that sort of life that I was talking about earlier. And I think because because it's honest mark making, it's an honest reaction, it's you as you are arrived, sitting in front of your your surface, your canvas, your board, your whatever, and putting down marks that haven't been filtered through a framework of how you think they need to come out.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

That is exactly it. And again, that is exactly something that that I needed to hear right about now as I am sitting literally in my armchair looking at this painting. So thank you. It is, it's a thing, you like I I just think okay, I'm gonna speak for myself here. Go for it. So, like my excavated landscapes, they are like there is a lot of freedom in them because everything is risk, it gets covered up, it gets removed, like it's not a thing that I'm really, really rigid or anything like that. But it's interesting how even though within that very organic process, you can get boxed in. So my boxing in is me thinking that building up and then having to having to sand. Like that's my box. And so for me, I'm looking at this work now and it's like in no way like layered up. It's got like one layer on it. Um, and I can see some semblance of like abstract, um, very immediate, like immersed in the landscape, like it has that energy about it. And already I'm sitting here thinking, okay, how I need to keep that, and yet I also want to excavate because there's something about the building up and then the digging for buried treasure that I just I can't step away from it, even if I try. But I'm like, how would these components actually sit next to each other? Why have I never tried that before? Why have I never ever just let some marks be what they are and build up other areas? And this is my my curiosity coming into this panel is I'm like, well, what areas are actually interesting just as they are? I'm gonna let them live. What if like these few key, you know, structural areas that are, you know, obviously at the time that I was doing them, the you can definitely pull in the form of trees and whatnot. I'm like, well, I love excavating trees. I love layering up trees. I'm like, okay, well, what if it was, what if it was just the trees, like some of the trees that were layered up? And it's just interesting how I'd never even thought about that before up until this point. I'm like, why have I never tried that before? So I'm like, I'm just gonna try it. I'm just gonna try and see if it works, you know?

SPEAKER_03 55:15

And I think so. Right now you're having like this whole dialogue with yourself, you're having this sort of this questioning. And that's you as an artist. So, yes, you're someone who excavates, you're someone who works within sort of these landscapes, but you're also someone who's questioning why and the process. So it's like, how interesting would it be to have almost like a diptych of pieces where you have one that's excavated and one that's not, because there's a conversation there. Why am I excavating? And I think that's something so beautiful to explore in artwork. And I feel like it's like every sketchy thought has a reason to just exist and be and to show that to people. Like this is you and an art as an artist having a conversation about excavation, why you do it, what it's seeking, what it's looking for. Are there times when we don't or you don't need to excavate? And like that's a conversation in itself that can be put out there as art. Like stuff that hasn't been excavated because that was a question worth asking. That is a way to do it. So true. Like that's so interesting as well. Like it's been a big part of your process. But what happens when when you don't? Or how does it how do and you ask yourself, how does it sit next to something I have excavated? And I think enjoy seeing that. I think the art we make, like so much times it's almost like a uh like a finished product, and it's so separate from the process, and people can talk about the process, like this is the process of this product I made, this artwork I made. But sometimes like I just I want to see that on the wall. Like, is that was the whole process not the thing we're meant to see? Yeah, like the the artworks had a lot, like and and both both are totally relevant, right? You can do both, but I as a person am so interested in knowing that this artwork had a life of being made, like it's not just the final image. Like, I find that so fascinating. And I love when we can see like the conversations, the queries, the dialogues artists are having with themselves in the studio late at night, and like, oh, like what is this? What is this tension here? And it's like, ooh, like I love seeing that. I love sitting them, seeing those things sit together, like put that up on the wall. Like, I love it. Like, and I'll just even even your sketchbook. I'm like, oh my god, put that in a show. Like, don't translate it, don't filter it any further. Like, that is so beautiful and so fresh, and it's so full of like that instant reactionary mark making. Like you've seen, you've processed, you've felt, you've put a mark down. And it's like I can feel all of that immediacy. Like, I love the rawness of that. Like, I really love raw artworks, I think. And I mean, I can totally admire super polished finesse, like absolutely, you know, labored over and thought out artwork. So you can just you can just see something like, oh wow, that's like that's stunning. But um, I think something always hits me when it's a very raw artwork.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

Um, yeah, absolutely. And I think like this just comes back to this the importance of like going on things like residencies and nurturing connections like this and just having very, I mean, this is why my podcast is exactly how it is, because there's something to be said about just allowing yourself to sit with what really you actually need to speak out in front of another person, which isn't planned, which is just something that you're chewing on in your head. And it's like I think that's one thing that I got out of the residency. I didn't actually realize how much of this stuff I recycle in my own head and never speak out loud. Like, like I always knew that there's something really exciting about my thumbnails, and yet the part of me that just wants to layer over the top and over the top and over the top and keep reworking and keep killing and killing and killing and killing won't even let those little things be seen or won't even talk about them and won't even acknowledge them. And it's like, oh my God, not only does this like literally it, you just you cannot remove yourself from your art at all. Like this is my my complete mental state, my complete, complete um internal patterning that I'm constantly trying to work on. And I that is the thing that you pulled out in that sentence. You're like, what if it, what if you didn't have to keep working? Like, what if it wasn't about trying to constantly make it better? And it's like, that's the way I treat myself as well, constantly trying to make myself better. And so I put aside all of those little immediate things, all of those things that were just fun and playful, and I go back to the struggle. Um, and so like every single thing that you have said through this entire conversation was just something I really, really needed to hear. So you have no idea how much I value this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

And I know I know so many on the residency, like so many of the residents. We did everyone who was there, and I'm like, do you know what? A group residency is like honestly, everyone needs to do one. At least once a year. Like it was so good. The little insights from just when you weren't expecting it, or for someone to say something you hadn't been able to articulate about what you were doing, you're like, oh yes, like thank you. Like it was so good, but um, yeah, I loved that. Like, yeah, that was such a beautiful thing to do. And I think it's so hard sometimes to remember that just you know what? Some things just are like you just you just do it and that's it, and that's all it needs to be. And it's so worthy of like having an audience as well. Yeah. Like I think ev everyone just wants something that has some humanity in it. And the most the place where humanity exists the most is in those raw, unfiltered reactions where we haven't curated, constructed, tweaked, refined. It just it was just a moment of like honest expression of who you are and how you felt, and we're seeing that through the way you've interpreted something outside of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Yeah, 100%. I think that is I think there has been so many microphones in this conversation. People are gonna get so much out of this. Um, so your next thing that you're doing is your your show. So that's coming up on the 11th of July. What time was the opening again? One o'clock, did you say?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

Yeah, one o'clock. But obviously, I will um have that all up on my Instagram and my website pretty soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

Yeah, yeah. You can send me, I'll do an intro for you. I'll do like a proper intro for the episode. So, what I'll do, you can just send me through your bio and statement. I'll roof off that. Um, we'll put all of the details in the show notes and all that jazz. But thank you so much yet again. Um I'll see you at the opening anyway. If you're sure it'll be good. It'll be good.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:31

Oh, I can't wait. I know we need some more chats. We do in our live.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

I know I might have to backpocket a little mini deck that we can just subtly get. Right. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

You have to you have to send me the card you picked. I will give it away.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

I will. I'll take a photo of it right now. It's absolutely beautiful as well. Um, yes, I will. I'll send that to you right now. But you have an amazing day, and congratulations for finishing all your work and yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

It was such a breath of fresh air, as always.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:06

Thank you. I can chat all day too, I think. But yes, we better get back to the studio. Yeah, we better get back to work. I'm feeling very full of inspiration now. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Thank you so much. All right. Let's talk soon. I'll see you at your opening, but if we don't chat before then, I'm sure I'll chat with you. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

All right, have a gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Bye.