Death By Adulting
A podcast focused on helping you make decisions today that you won't regret tomorrow. Hosted by Dr. Steve and Megan Scheibner. The Scheibners share wisdom and advice regarding marriage, parenting, dating, communication and even sex.
Death By Adulting
Getting Real: Ditching Digital Drama for Authentic Interaction
Ever find yourself tangled in the web of modern communication, wondering how we got here? On this episode of "Death by Adulting," we unravel the evolution from letter writing and phone calls to the quicksand of texting and email. With humor and wit, we share our personal escapades of adopting our kids' texting habits, only to find ourselves hilariously uncool. Join us as we spotlight the irreplaceable value of face-to-face interactions for clarity and conflict resolution, along with practical tips for nurturing meaningful connections in today's digital age.
Why do men rush to fix problems while women, though natural fixers, need to step back? Dive into the dynamics of listening and problem-solving within relationships in this riveting segment. We discuss the importance of providing space, asking insightful questions, and practicing silent support—crucial for parenting and helping children develop their problem-solving skills. Hear us extol the virtue of just sitting and listening, allowing others to express themselves without the immediate urge to offer solutions, thus fostering stronger, more understanding relationships.
Misunderstandings can wreak havoc on any relationship, but we've got you covered with effective communication strategies. Discover the magic of repeating back what you heard, a technique that guarantees clarity and accountability. Whether you're navigating parenting challenges or simply trying to find the peanut butter in the pantry, these tools will enhance your interactions. Plus, we introduce essential techniques from our book "The Eight Rules of Communication for Successful Marriages," proving that listening and gathering facts are fundamental skills for any successful relationship. Tune in and transform the way you communicate!
On this episode of Death by Adulting. Yak yak, yak. Honey, you just talk too darn much. The texting trap, how to avoid being misunderstood. Plus, what can toddlers teach us about fighting fair? I want to hear this one Learning to listen. Plus, much, much more Roll the intro. I wish that I knew what I know now. Us much, much more.
Speaker 2:Roll the intro. Do you ever wish you could ask older you whether the decisions you're making today are going to turn out okay tomorrow? Welcome to Death by Adulting. You know, in this crazy world of adult living, sometimes the only thing we know for sure is that we don't have to like it, we just have to do it. So if we just have to do it anyway, why not do it? Well, that's what we're here for. We're Dr Steve and Megan Scheibner, and we're your on-demand personal old farts, here to help you make great decisions today that you'll be proud of tomorrow. Well, how are you doing, dr Steve?
Speaker 1:You always introduce me as an on-demand old fart and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Well, I'm going to defend myself and say you came up with that term, you know. You didn't have to throw me under the bus like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wanted to call myself like a queenager.
Speaker 1:A queenager? Yeah, is that a thing? That's what I am.
Speaker 2:It is now. That's what I am. I'm a queenager, I'm well and I'm excited about this topic because you and I we've written on communication. We travel speaking about communication. When we do do counseling, all we do is communicate, and now it's time to talk about it to a different audience. Absolutely so. Uh, you know, communication is an interesting thing because we in this culture have a lot of different ways that we communicate, don't we? Yes, yeah, so like what? How do you most often communicate with other people?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, texting is probably the most common one now these days. A little bit of email not as much as I used to. I think email was more of a kind of a 90s, early 2000s thing. But for official business, yeah, because you want to have that paper trail. And then I still use the phone, but again, that's kind of out of date too, so you know, like me I'm out of date on a lot of things. But those are the big three for me, but probably texting is the biggest one.
Speaker 2:Okay, and there is still letter writing. There are letter writers.
Speaker 1:I'm a letter writer. Yeah, I can't remember the last time I wrote a letter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny when you call me, I'm more of a texter now than a phone talker and so, like when I'm ready to get off, I'll be like, well, okay, and you always say so, you're hanging up. Well, that's your sign for oh, you go, Alrighty then Alrighty, then I'm like, okay, she wants to get off.
Speaker 1:That's like that's like the equivalent of the thumbs up emoji on a text right, that means we're done talking.
Speaker 2:How about a nice text, really? So we do. We have a lot of different ways that we communicate and and you didn't- even list really the most important one, which is face to face, and, and not just the most important, but the the best, I believe, to avoid conflict. Face to face communication is clear communication. Conflict face-to-face communication is clear communication. Um, when it comes to texting, it's a dangerous communication, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yes, it is. You know, it's interesting because that's, you're right, that's the one that most people do the most of is they talk face-to-face, but I would, I would add that's that one is diminishing. There's less of that and there's more of this, uh, uh. We once watched our, our older teens go out on a like a date, a double date, and all four of them were heads down and they were doing this as they were driving out, including the driver, which we talked about that afterwards, and I said well, who are you guys texting? They go, oh, each other I know, that's so weird in the car.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, you can't talk to each other in the car, I. And then so we, we kind of capitalize on that. Now, mom and dad, here's a little pro tip for you. If you want to kill something that your kids are doing, uh, you don't have to just confront it straight on. Just start doing it yourself in front of them. That'll make it so uncool They'll never want to do it.
Speaker 2:That's why Facebook is for old people now.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Our kids started using the word dope, now dope's not in anymore, but I'm talking about 10, 12 years ago. And they would go everything was dope man, that's so dope. And what did we do? We started using the word dope and, about a week into us, using the word dope.
Speaker 2:First they told us not to there. Please don't ever say that again. Why? I just think it's so dope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we would be. You know, we'd all sitting around maybe watching a movie or doing something in the living room and you and I would get our phones out and we would start doing this. Right, and then pretty soon they'd pick up that we were texting each other and they go what are you guys doing? I go none of your business. And and mom would look at the her phone, she'd go, oh, and then she'd text me.
Speaker 1:And it was probably like you know, let's get two percent milk or something, but they thought it was you were doing. You know that stuff and there's nothing grosser. There's nothing grosser than that right yeah, that's that stopped the texting while we were all sitting around if we're all gonna sit around.
Speaker 2:Let's talk to each other so there's a little pro parenting tip. We still say if we had gotten tattoos, they wouldn't have we missed that boat yeah, yeah, we did miss that boat.
Speaker 1:We probably should have gotten a discreet tattoo, and then the kids would have never gotten one.
Speaker 2:They would have been like oh, I'm not going to have a tattoo.
Speaker 1:My parents have that.
Speaker 2:But actually that's probably why you didn't get one.
Speaker 1:Probably. Yeah, my mother had tattoos, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it isn't just that we have different ways of communicating in this culture, but we also have different relationships that we communicate with, and some are. Some are those email communications that you talked about. If I'm, if I'm um setting up an event that we're going to go to, or I am communicating with someone about one of the books I've written, I I email them because, like you said, we do want a paper trail that I can say, no, no, we talked about that, right, um, and then I've got um, you and I text some, but we do talk on the phone more, but I text the kids. I definitely text them, and some of them I only communicate through um, instagram reels and memes.
Speaker 2:Um, that's a different type of communication, but, if you think about it, how we communicate is really contingent on who we're communicating with, and so we want to learn how to make our communication most effective. So for the next few episodes, really, we're going to give you some tools for better communication. That is across the board. How you apply it is going to be a little different, like this first one that we're going to talk about learning to listen. How I listen to you is different than how, honestly, how I listen to the grandchildren, which is more of an uh-huh, uh-huh, right, but these tools are universal.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, that's what in the intro I did. You know the funny yak? Yak yak you know, honey, you just talk too much. Uh, that's an old joke, but but sometimes people do talk nonstop and they're not really listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not just women.
Speaker 1:We know some men that do that too yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's the ones that you hesitate to answer the phone because you're like. I don't know that I'm ever going to get off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you see their name on the phone. You're like, oh, this is going to be a long investment.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, exactly. So we want to talk about the communication and we want to start with. It seems so basic, but really the foundation of communication, before we even talk about how we speak, is that we need to learn to listen.
Speaker 2:And we're not a culture of listeners at all. We are a culture who is spring-loaded to speak, whether it's our turn or not. We're ready to give our two cents worth. And the Bible has some interesting things to say about our communication and especially about our listening. In James 1.9, we're told that we're to be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger. And I would say that as a people, we've got that turned on its head that we're slow to hear, quick to speak and quite often quick to anger.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And why do you think that is?
Speaker 1:You know we jump to conclusions. We don't give the other person the benefit of the doubt. There's a lot of reactivity. That's just natural in us and, like you said, if you're not a good listener, you're wanting to get your point in, so you're. You just interrupt and cut off the other person before you even hear what they have to say.
Speaker 1:And hearing is more than just with the ears. Yeah, hearing is is here as well. That's why, talking directly to somebody, you get get their eye contact, you get the emotion that goes with it. Texting is two dimensional. I think we talked about that in another episode, but it bears repeating here. It's flat. You don't know the emotion behind it and that's why people will send emojis every once in a while to you know I'm laughing right To let you know that that was just humorous because you could take it the wrong way. It's less likely that you're going to take it the wrong way when you're talking to somebody directly. But again, if you want to get your point of view across or you want to get them to come around to your way of thinking, you're going to interrupt them before you've even listened to what they had to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I for me. Sometimes I assume I know what they're going to say, so why do I have to listen?
Speaker 1:Well, we absolutely judge the other person all the time with. Well, I know what you mean by that, or I know where that's coming from, and and uh, most of the time you don't. You might be right every once in a while, but it doesn't make any difference. You still have to listen to the person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about it with the kids. Now our kids are grown, but when they were younger and in the home and and I would say, why didn't that get done? And before they could answer, I I assume they were either going to say they forgot or they were going to give me a lame excuse and so I would just keep talking, and sometimes they needed to say something. Like you know, I fell down and cut my knee and I was in the bathroom putting a band-aid on it I had to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we do, we need to we, we need to learn to, to listen. Um, I was something you said prompted this for me, but we talked in a in a previous episode I think it might have been the last episode about how much we hate conflict and texting is a coward's way to avoid conflict, and I'm thinking about the young people we know that have been broken up with over text.
Speaker 2:Now breaking up with someone was always difficult. It was never easy, but when it was time to do it, it was time to do it. You'd muster your courage and you'd have to look them in the eye and say I'm really sorry, but I just don't feel that way about you and we're going to break up. And now you can do it from behind a screen and be and not have to. It's, it's a coward's way. You don't have to have the courage to care about the other person enough to do it well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we know people that have been broken up with. The way they found out was they checked their other person's status and it went from interrelationship to single yeah, or in one day it went from interrelationship to it's complicated to single. I know it's like a red light, yellow light, green light.
Speaker 2:I know people have been laid off from jobs. Let go from ministries yes, by text.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's wrong, that's, it's cowardly yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2:so we're to be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger, and we do the opposite. Now I think a legitimate question is does God listen to us? Do you feel like God listens to us?
Speaker 1:I do yeah Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean through prayer, but I think he also listens when we're not praying.
Speaker 2:He's attuned to us? Yeah, I think he's tuned in all the time. Jeremiah 29, 12 says this, and this is talking about prayer, but it says you will call upon me and come and pray to me and I will hear you. And I looked up the hear there. I wanted to know okay, there's hearing and there's listening and there's just various levels of it and there's connecting yes and what and there's listening, and there's just various levels of it and there's connecting.
Speaker 2:Yes, and what does it mean? And that word here in the verse means God is listening with action in mind. And so when God hears us, he's thinking how can I act for their greater good? And I think for myself that was really convicting. Do I listen with a hard attitude of how can I act for this person's greater good? Or do I listen with how can I make sure my point gets across or I'm protected or my greater good is taken care of? And that's not how God listens. In fact, if we want to imitate God in Psalm 116, it says he inclines his ear toward us. It's like he leans in, and that's beyond just hearing what's said.
Speaker 1:Right, so you listen. If I get this right, you listen with wanting to be a blessing to somebody in mind, Like, how can I bless them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. How can I act on their behalf?
Speaker 1:And maybe the blessing is just listening. Bless them, yeah, yeah. How can I act on their behalf? And maybe, maybe, the blessing is just listening to them?
Speaker 1:You don't have to do anything. You just. You know, some people just want you to listen. You don't have to fix it, you know you. You helped me with that a lot, cause I think early on in our relationship, I felt like I had to fix you all the time. Or if there was a problem that you're sharing with me, I'd say, well, here's what you have to do. You know, do this, this and this.
Speaker 1:I treated you like another man, you know, and that didn't always go very well. Uh, and then but after a while you helped me with that you said, steve, I'm going to share something with you right now and I don't need you to fix it. That was very helpful, cause I could just fold my hands and listen then. And then at the end of it I'd go, okay, thanks for sharing that. And then maybe you'd come up to me another time and you'd say, okay, now I shared that with you, what do you think I should do? But you invited me in, I didn't force my way in, right, and that was more of a blessing to you, just to listen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's an interesting dynamic that I don't really, when you share things, think how can I fix it? That's just not something. I don't think women do that as much.
Speaker 1:Oh, I disagree with you.
Speaker 2:In the husband wife relationship, but if it's their children, if our children shared something, I was like I'm going to fix that and you're never going to talk to that person again and in fact I hate her forever, right. And and moms get that way with their kids, but almost we need to give our kids, especially our older teenagers, the freedom to say hey, can I share something with you and will you not try and fix it?
Speaker 1:I'm going to disagree with you completely on that. We're going to have an on-screen disagreement. How about that? I think young ladies are all wired to be fixers, because women fix things more than men do. If you think about running a home and having children and the seven or eight or nine plates that a woman spins, as opposed to maybe, the one plate a man spins at a time, they are natural fixers. And how many young girls got married to a guy that had problems? He was angry, he was over controlling, he was lazy, he was whatever. And they thought I'll fix him. And you know, are good enough and then, they.
Speaker 1:Then they go into the marriage thinking I'll fix that in him. And that never goes well, because unless somebody asks you to fix them, they're going to push back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm thinking more, not not, you don't, you didn't try and fix me so much. But if I came to you and said, you know, this friend, you know, talked behind my back and then I found out that she and my other friends were out together, in the beginning your temptation was to say, well, you don't need that friend and you can find other friends. And if you come to me and you say, well, this happened at work, I don't naturally go well, here's how you're going to fix it. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:Men are more abrupt with that. They're like, well, it just cut off that relationship, that's enough of that. And they want like, well, it just cut off that relationship, that's enough of that. And they want to put it in a compartment, yeah, and get rid of it, and but everything in a woman's life is connected. So, again, a woman is less likely to sever a connection than a man is.
Speaker 2:A man is just going to say well, just you know yeah, you know, because boys punch each other that's how they result girls torture each other. Girls torture each other and that's the connectedness.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, the torture is going to go on forever. Boys, just get it over with and then they move on yeah, well that listening to not fix.
Speaker 2:You know, for the dads who are listening to our podcast or watching this podcast, be careful with your daughters. You know that you don't just rush in and fix it now. Ask them good questions, help them come to resolution, but they need to know how to fix things on their own.
Speaker 1:It's an important parenting tip at this point of Megan's, describing when your children, boys or girls, open up a window of their heart to you. And many times that window gets opened up, like at bedtime, when you're tucking them in, and they'll say, hey, daddy, what do you think about? Or they'll say, you know, daddy, if I liked a boy, a boy, you know. And when they open up that window and you look and you see the furniture inside, don't rush in to rearrange the furniture. Let them invite you in, yeah, but don't. Don't tell them they're all wrong. Don't tell them they're all messed up, they're going to slam that window shut and they'll never let you back in again. Be gentle, look in, ask some good questions, but don't rush in to change. Rearrange the furniture.
Speaker 2:They'll put up a piece of plywood and nail it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to kind of segue back to something you said. You said sometimes the best listening is not speaking at all. And, um, you know, people know we're counselors, and a young lady came up to me last night and said you know, I just need your help. Help, I have a friend who's heartbroken, and how do I help her? She told me some of the things she'd been trying to do that weren't getting the the um result she was hoping for. It was making things worse, right, and I said you know what? I think she just needs you to sit. She just needs you to sit and listen to her. She doesn't need you to try and fix this because because it making it worse. So sometimes the best listening is with your lips zipped.
Speaker 1:Yeah, learn to listen.
Speaker 2:So we want to learn to listen, but there's some tools that can help us do that, and you said in the intro you mentioned how do toddlers teach us to fight fair, because sometimes the hardest communication is when we're having what we call heated fellowship right.
Speaker 2:When we're going at each other and we don't agree and and you know, you're going to do it my way and you're going to do it my way, and you know it's well, I want to hear what you have to say about this Cause I, when I think of toddlers, I don't think of fighting fair, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a tool that we teach toddlers that will help us learn to fight fair. Toddlers don't fight fair, they are so self-centered it's. You know, it's crazy how self-centered a toddler is, but one of the things that we teach toddlers and I teach young moms to teach their toddlers is that when things are out of control right, when there's too much going on or a toddler has to wait too long for something, or they're confined to a car seat or they're somewhere they could touch someone that they shouldn't touch we had a couple of those kids that we teach them to fold their hands, because folding your hands is a focusing technique. You have to think to fold your hands and it takes what's out of control, which, for an adult, is going to be this right, our mouth is going to be out of control and you have to think about folding your hands. So that's kind of tool. Number one is fold your hands.
Speaker 1:So you're not talking about just, you're talking about adult students.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we teach toddlers, but it transfers to adults just as well. Teach toddlers, but it transfers to adults just as well. Because our well, while out of control for us doesn't look like there's toys laying all over the floor and there's too much noise although you moms know sometimes that is it, it's just too much noise and I lost my mind. Um, when we're having, when you're having communication with anyone, that is a higher level of anxiety is the way I'm going to put it Like there's some angst involved in it. Folding your hands helps you kind of slow down and focus on the person and the problem, but on the person.
Speaker 1:And that's also a huge tool for your kids that have ADD ADHD. It helps bring the world that's spiraling out of control back into control.
Speaker 2:Because you have to think about this Right, um, and and it's interesting Our kids knew if we were having a struggle, uh, a fight. I'm just going to call it what it is If we're having an argument we're having an argument.
Speaker 1:We always hold our hands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they would come in and they'd be, like you can hear, the sentry went back to the others, like they would send out the one to check and they'd go yeah they'd go. Mom and dad are having a fight. How do you know? They've got their hands folded and dad's knuckles are white Right, so they would know. So fold your hands Now for you married couples. If folding your hands isn't enough, hold hands. It's really hard to fight and hold hands.
Speaker 1:It's not fair. You can't fight, you can't continue the fight while you're holding hands Right and don't squeeze your wife's hand at all but just hold hands, all right.
Speaker 2:So there's a tool for you. Here's another tool Make eye contact. Because when you make eye contact that's why texting is so detrimental, especially if you're having any type of disagreement you can't see the other person's eyes. We want to see the eyes because when you look into someone's eyes you see the heart behind what's being said. I mean, sometimes it may be they're crying, it may be they're glaring and you go boy, they are just really angry and we're not going to get anywhere till we come down off the peg. But you need to see the eyes. So look into the other person's eyes. Do you remember how I used to look into your eyes?
Speaker 1:your angry eyes, my angry eyes or I'd roll them I was an eye roller, eye rolling. Yeah, that was another one yeah yeah, your mrs potato had angry eyes.
Speaker 2:You know the ones with the cat eyeglasses that were like this yeah, yeah and honestly, sometimes when you look into your partner's eyes and they're rolling their eyes, that that's a nervous reaction to things. Right, there are people that roll. The day we got married I was really nervous I don't know about you, but I was pretty, pretty nervous down there at the end of the aisle and I rolled my eyes the whole way down the aisle. So all of our pictures. I have no eyeballs, right, but it's a nervous reaction. But if you're not looking at your partner and they're, they're nervously rolling your eyes and you're like across the room doing something else but yelling, you know you're not going to see that nervousness that's being caused. So you're gonna fold your hands, you're going to make eye contact and then this is kind of a strange one, but it's really helpful. It has been very helpful to us and very helpful with our children and I suppose we're going to start doing with our grandchildren too. But anything, any communication that you have with another person, when there's a chance for misunderstanding, repeat back what you heard them say and and um, now, not word for word, cause you're going to be sarcastic and we'll hit sarcasm in another episode talking about kind of how detrimental to communication that is. But when you repeat back what you heard someone say, you get it right. Um cause, often Steve has said something and when I summarize it back to him, I've gotten it wrong and he can say no, you added something, I never said that, or did you forget that? I said this, and then I can get it right Now.
Speaker 2:Another parenting tip we'll throw in is, if you have kids that really struggle to follow through on your instructions, have them repeat back exactly what you said and make them do it until they get it exactly right. That is the one time to do it exactly, because you want to make sure that they understand what you said. And when they repeat it back to you word for word, you've got a contract. You know that. They know. There's no doubt. If they don't do it, then Because so often as we're training our children and having to discipline them, we have doubt. Did they know? Was I not clear? Maybe I didn't say what they needed to hear, right? If they can repeat it back word for word, you know, they know.
Speaker 1:If you have children that aren't taking the initiative, maybe older kids or younger kids that are just downright not obedient to you, give them clear and unambiguous instruction. Make sure you don't phrase it in the form of a question. Tell them exactly what you want them to do and then at the end of it, say repeat back to mommy what mommy just asked you to do, and then they'll get one out of the three things you know go upstairs, brush your teeth, put in your pajamas, get into bed now that sort of thing. And they go. Go upstairs Okay, no, let's go upstairs. And what else? Brush my teeth, yeah. And stairs Okay, no, let's go upstairs.
Speaker 1:And what else? Brush my teeth, yeah, and what else? Put on my jammies and what else. And get into bed Okay. Now repeat that to me yeah, brush my teeth, put on my jammies, get into bed. When they do that, like you said, you've got a contract with them, and now their chance for success just skyrocketed Right, and now the acrimony between you and that child just diminished tremendously. It's a little tool that you can use as a parent. That is helpful to the child, but it really brings the temperature in the house down, and it's it's so effective.
Speaker 2:Yeah and and be um, be wise in how many instructions you give them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that. But that's an incentive to them. When they're really good at two instructions, you say, hey, you know what, you are so good at two instructions, I'm going to give you three, and it's something for them to kind of bump up to. The older kids get four or five. But you're on your way, I'm going to give you three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll give you an example that will resonate with you. Think of how much your husband is like a child. And when you send your husband to the pantry, you don't give him three or more things to find in the pantry, you give him one. If he's in the grocery store, you don't send him for three things, you send him for one, right, because he can't handle more than that. So, again with your children, just like your husband, give them one instruction, maybe two, an exceptional child, maybe three, but that's, that's the limit but what happens if you just all you ask for is the peanut butter and he still can't find it?
Speaker 1:You know I break into a cold sweat because when you send me to the pantry to find the peanut butter, it's just a thing. I can't find it, and I think you do this on purpose.
Speaker 1:I think you either turn it backwards or you put it behind something or you move where it is or something, or there's just like a little. There's a little peanut jar shaped blind spot in my eye and while I'm looking straight at it I can't see it. It's just the most humiliating thing when I've been in there for like eight minutes and I'm sweating like this and she reaches over and goes Steve, it's right here, oh.
Speaker 2:I have a confession your daughters and I were discussing how should I pass away? You have to get married again because you'd never find the peanut butter.
Speaker 1:And they all.
Speaker 2:They all knew the answer. They're like, yeah, dad's going to need a wife or he'll never get to have peanut butter again.
Speaker 1:That's true, and younger women are better at finding peanut butter.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah yeah, you're lucky, I have your list, you're in good health.
Speaker 1:Let's move on.
Speaker 2:Yes yes, I have your list of who you can marry, so, all right, so we've got that's three, three good tools. Fold your hands, make contact and repeat back a brief summary. But if we learn to listen, you could be a listener and still not know what's going on. If you aren't listening to understand Correct. And so you and I were talking about, kind of the next step is finding out the facts, because you can listen and still not find out the facts. So you need to find out facts or you're going to get in a deep world of hurt in your communication.
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely. And that's again the more you learn to listen, the more you're going to find out the facts. I'm the kind of guy that I want to jump to a conclusion right away. I think I know what the facts are already and I'm not very good at slowing down, listening effectively and then actually, like you said, hearing and connecting with the other person. So, yeah, find out the facts is huge.
Speaker 2:So what's that look like? What's it look like to find out the facts?
Speaker 1:I'm blanking.
Speaker 2:You're blanking. Well, you have to ask good questions, don't you?
Speaker 1:Well, you have to ask good questions, don't you? Well, okay, so one of the tools I think that's effective with learning how to find out the facts is something we've been employing for years, we've taught audiences for a couple of decades is dialogue questions. And a dialogue question is wonderful because it's whatever you want to say to the other person. Phrase it in the form of a question Many times and this happens with couples all the time but you'll say something that you think the other person needs to hear and they instantly become defensive.
Speaker 1:Right? And there's two reasons that people become defensive. One is you've assigned a motive to their behavior. So if you use the word always or never, or you're just like your mother or father or brother, that you can expect them to put up the dukes, not literally, but defensively. And now, all of a sudden, you're in a fight and now, three minutes into it, you can't remember what started the fight. All you know is you're upset with each other. That's one reason. The other reason is that they're wrong. They've they know it, they've done something wrong, they're trying to cover up something, they're guilty about something already. And you just touch that raw nerve of they're wrong and they will become naturally defensive. And then you say, wow, I just gave you a compliment and all of a sudden we're fighting. I don't know how this happened, uh, but they were wrong and you touch that raw nerve.
Speaker 2:We have a special way to describe that here in the South.
Speaker 1:Yes, bless their heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're in the flesh. They're in the flesh. Bless their heart. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so that's the two reasons that people become defensive. The dialogue question sidesteps the defensiveness. That's the beauty of it. Phrase it in the form of a question. Whatever you want to say, put who, what, when, where, in front of it. Don't use why, why is not really a good dialogue question? Cause, why is kind of a a critical sign, almost kind of a whiny question? I've learned over the years that when something happens at work and I go, why'd they do that? Well? Why'd they do that Well? Who made that decision? Well, hold on, that's. That's not what we're talking about with a dialogue question.
Speaker 1:For instance, years ago we were just newly married. We had to have money for the weekend to spend and they didn't have ATM machines all over the place back then. We had to cash a check at the bank, so I was out in the yard doing some work. It was about 10 minutes before the bank closed. I had forgotten. You come running out the front door with a checkbook I do and you said Steve, we got to go to the bank and cash your checks. We jumped in the car. We're running to the bank as fast as we can. We're going to get there with about two minutes to spare.
Speaker 1:I'm, I daydream in the car, and so we're about to go by the exit and you just sit next to me. You just wanted me to turn, but you just said bank, just like that, and I was offended by the way that came across. I thought it was disrespectful. So guess what I did? I just kept my foot on the gas and we drove right by that exit and we didn't get to the bank and we didn't have money that weekend. But we didn't need it because we fought like cats and dogs all weekend over how I took offense to you just saying bank. So now, how could that have been said better and I could have received it better?
Speaker 1:That's the whole goal with this is to avoid that instantaneous defensiveness. I still do daydream in the car, but you've gotten much better at and I'm good at asking dialogue questions now too, when you say, steve, isn't this your turn here, or didn't you mean to turn at this exit, or don't you want to take this exit? See how that dynamic is completely different. I feel like I'm taking ownership of it, like it's my idea, right? That's the brilliance of good communication, in that way.
Speaker 1:And so we sidestep that defensiveness and now we find out the facts. So now I can data gather much better and I can come up with a better decision. But once you get wrapped up in that defensiveness, you're never going to find out the facts. All you're going to know is that we're upset with each other and the whole thing just disintegrates quickly. And is that we're upset with each other and the whole thing just disintegrates quickly, and it may last for days and weeks. So it's pretty awful stuff. We want to sidestep the defensiveness, phrase it in the form of a question and the other person is going to. You're going to be heard and you're going to find out the facts.
Speaker 2:And any relationship that we have, dialogue, questions, work with, because I think of you know our youngest is not married yet but he's had roommates that just left the sink full of dishes all the time and and it was a constant fight. They were always at each other, but when he was able to stop, slow down a little bit and say you know, um, what's your plan for getting your dishes done, Well, here's, here's the universal dialogue question.
Speaker 1:This is a good one, it fits almost any situation and it goes like this Help me understand and then ask the question and then whatever it is.
Speaker 1:So with your children, with your spouse, let's say you rubbed each other the wrong way. Something got sideways. You say, help me understand what happened just now, or help me understand why you made that choice, or help me understand why you hit your sister in the head with a brick. Whatever it is, help me understand. It diffuses the situation. But it's also a universally easy dialogue question that will get you into the conversation without the defensiveness.
Speaker 2:I just about destroyed my relationship with the oldest four kids because I taught them to drive and I shrieked all the time where, with the younger ones, I'd say you know, how do you feel about your speed? Or uh, what do you think about that curb on the side?
Speaker 1:of the road or whatever. How do you feel about your following distance right now? Right right, all those sort of things, good dialogue, questions now instead of you know, slow down you're gonna hit that car in front of you, yeah, yeah they're like I don't ever want to drive with I never have to teach anyone to drive a car again.
Speaker 2:No, hallelujah, all right, that's really good, that's really good. So. So there's two, two tools to help with communication, learning to listen and finding out the facts, and some of these they just take, slowing down a few minutes right.
Speaker 1:Right, and those, those first two rules, are from our book called the eight rules of communication for successful marriages. So we'll and it could be successful relationships. It doesn't have to be marriage, but they really work. So those are the first two rules. By the way, if you're at this point in the video and you've listened this far, would you do us a favor and hit that like button and subscribe so you don't miss any of the great content, and even if you can share this with your friends on social media?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you share it with your friends, they might ask you dialogue questions. Think how good your relationship will be then. All right, well, this has been some really good stuff, and so learn to listen, use dialogue questions. I know you're thinking a dialogue question right now, which is help me understand, megan, what's coming next? Well, we'll be back next, next episode, with two more tools to help with communication. Communication is the foundation for all our relationships, and so I'm excited to come back and share two more with you. So I'm Megan Scheibner. This is my co host, dr Steve, and remember, when it comes to adulting, you don't have to like it, you just have to do it.