Death By Adulting
A podcast focused on helping you make decisions today that you won't regret tomorrow. Hosted by Dr. Steve and Megan Scheibner. The Scheibners share wisdom and advice regarding marriage, parenting, dating, communication and even sex.
Death By Adulting
Breaking Free from Immature Relationships: Recognizing and Remedying Arrested Development
Why do so many men seem to get stuck in a perpetual state of adolescence, treating relationships like conquests and shirking responsibilities? Discover the root causes of arrested development in relationships as Megan and Dr. Steve Scheibner explore this pervasive issue in our latest episode of "Death by Adulting". We delve into the mindset that keeps some men trapped at a 19-year-old level of maturity, leading to toxic behaviors like love bombing and blame-shifting. Through real-life counseling experiences and societal analysis, we highlight the seven signs of immature relationships and offer strategies for recognizing and addressing these harmful patterns.
But it’s not just about the men. We also contrast this arrested development with how it manifests in women, particularly after marriage. You’ll hear about the struggles women face in balancing personal ambitions with household duties, and the damaging impact of unrealistic self-expectations. We discuss why the mentality of "I can change him" often fails and the importance of assessing a partner’s maturity and past relationship behaviors before committing. Megan and Dr. Steve provide insights into embracing responsibilities joyfully and breaking the cycle of immaturity for more fulfilling, mature relationships. Listen in to learn how to foster healthier connections and grow beyond arrested development.
On this episode of Death by Adulting, arrested Development, why Some Men and Women Never Mature Past Age 19, warning Signs to Look For Next. Why I Can Change Him Never Works and why Guys Never Think, oh, I Can Change Her. The Wash Rinse, repeat Mentality plus much, much more. Roll the intro.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Death by Adulting. I'm your host, megan Scheibner, as always with my co-host, dr Steve Scheibner, and this topic that we're going to talk about is fascinating to me, so we're going to jump right into it. And Steve, you mentioned arrested development and we see that over and over again. So why don't you? Why don't you jump us right into the topic?
Speaker 1:Well, when we talk about arrested development, we're talking about you know you and I are counselors, so we sit down with a lot of people young, old in between, every every age you can imagine and we see a common theme with it's probably more in men than it is women, but it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I think it just shows up differently. In women it shows up differently.
Speaker 1:Let me put it that way where, uh, 30 something males, 40 something males uh stopped maturing and developing at about age 19. They got stuck in that mentality of a senior teenager, right right on the cusp of turning 20 the mindset towards the opposite sex, the mindset towards relationships, the mindset towards life, politics, you name it, just about everything. They they just sort of stop maturing and developing at age 19 and get stuck with a place marker right there. Then, as they chronologically get older, they continue then to act like they were 19. They approach a maturing world around them with immaturity. Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting to me because when we were parenting our kids, we talked about Peter Pan syndrome, which was more that 7, 8, 9, 10, 11-year-old boys weren't making the transition to teenager, because they liked having mommy take care of everything and they liked that they could still be, you know, babied in a sense. But then they became teenagers, they kind of liked the taste of it and matured into young adults. It's just moved forward now.
Speaker 1:It's past Peter Pan and into arrested development Sometimes the manifestation of what I'm discussing looks a little bit like the Peter Pan syndrome, in the sense that, uh, a 20 something might still live at home and have mom cook for him and do this wash and so forth. Um, that that's one manifestation of it. That's not the primary one I want to talk about. I want to talk about the guy or the gal who's already launched. They're living on their own, they've got a professional job, they're making money, they're paying their own bills. All of that stuff is in place, and so that fits with the age. They are in their late twenties or thirties, or even forties, but they're failing to take on the responsibilities relationship wise and that's really what we want to key on the relationship responsibilities that a 30 or 40 year old would take on. And they got stuck in that 19 year old mindset and they, they're constantly in this cycle of repeating the same behaviors over and over and over again.
Speaker 2:And not really seeing that it's a problem. I mean, that's a big part of this.
Speaker 1:Correct? Yeah, absolutely so. Why don't you talk to us about the female equivalent, for the ladies, of what arrested development looks like?
Speaker 2:So I think for females, arrested development happens a little later. It happens more when they are married, and so women, generally speaking, mature a little bit quicker than men. Um, and that's not just our opinion, that's all the studies show that. And then they step into a marriage and arrested development looks like.
Speaker 2:I deserve my free time. My time with my girlfriends is just as important as these other priorities I have at home. Um, it's women who would go yeah, my husband's sick, but it's my night out with the girls. Um, I have to have my hobbies, I have to have my. I still go do the sports I love to do and and things that would be my responsibilities at home. They'll get done sometime, or they don't need to get done at all, which makes for a chaotic household, and so so they develop to the point of marriage. But then, once they get married, it's like they revert and honestly, I think as moms and dads, we have set this generation up for that a little bit, because we tell our teenage girls you can do it all, you can have it all, you can be it all. You can be in every sport you want to be in, you can be in every club you want to be in. You can be in every activity.
Speaker 1:And there's no time at home to learn those kinds of nurturing homemaking skills, correct, and if there was like 28? Or 30, hours in a day. Maybe you could do it all, but there's only 24. And so you you know the mindset of you can do it all or have it all is really selling you something that's false.
Speaker 2:And it ends up with a very selfish person, right, yeah. And so there's the women. There's a simpler actually than the men's. The men's is much more complex, yeah, it is more complicated. So let me, let me launch into arrested development for guys.
Speaker 1:Cause that's really where we want to go with this. Um, we're seeing more and more young ladies in that, stuck in that 19 year old mindset. But guys have been at this for a long time, they've turned it into kind of a profession and, uh, when we are counseling couples that are married maybe they've been married five, 10 years Uh, many times the issue is the guy never matured past age 19. And he's still approaching his relationship now with his wife in this committed, long-term relationship, as though it were almost like a dating mentality.
Speaker 2:Can I throw one in? It just came to my head but this falls into the women's category. But women look for good-looking men and part of growing up for a woman is looking beyond the looks to the character. And so we know when couples come in for counseling we look out our window as they're coming in, because we don't meet people till they get to our counseling center and if it's a Ken and Barbie look, we're like oh no, here we go.
Speaker 2:Because couples that gravitated to each other for looks often deal with how he makes me feel, how she makes me feel I'm so lucky to have, he's so lucky to have me, she's so lucky to have me, she's so lucky to have me, and that is part of a woman's arrested development is is women we have to get beyond that to look for. Is this a man who's going to love me and going to love our children and going to be stable and provide the environment I hope for? But if I grab somebody who doesn't provide that environment ahead of time, he's surely not going to do it once we get married.
Speaker 1:Well, there is a fair amount of science behind what you're discussing. It's not just anecdotal and there were studies done over the years. As part of my doctoral work, I looked at and read some of those studies about attractiveness of the opposite sex and you think about it. The expression we use is he or she was out of their league, right?
Speaker 1:We're usually talking about somebody who was better looking than one. Rodney Dangerfield used to tell an old joke, and he used it over and over again. It was funny. He'd say we need to talk about the character and the inner person and the stuff that makes us better human beings. He said, for instance, how many of you are familiar with seeing a tall, handsome, good looking man with a short round fat girl? Oh, I've never seen that, have you?
Speaker 1:And he'd make that joke, and it's true. You just don't see that People tend to size up what they think their league is and then they look for somebody else in their own league and when you get to the Ken and Barbie league that we're talking about, these are two beautiful people and most everything in life has come to them and they didn't have to work for it Because they're beautiful and they didn't have to develop the stuff on the inside because the outside attracted stuff. So they tend to be about an inch deep and trying to get an inch deep person to break that mold and go deeper is very, very difficult.
Speaker 2:And girls especially go. Well, I really want the inch deep person because he's so attractive and I get so much attention, but I really hope once we get married he becomes this serious, sober-minded, great husband and it just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1:And you girls in high school that overlooked the guy that was average or below average and looks, and now he's the CEO of I don't know Amazon, and he's a gazillionaire and he's a very, very attractive to you now. Well, you passed on me All right. So it's your fault that you missed all this right.
Speaker 2:All that.
Speaker 1:Sorry, sorry, I just had to get that in.
Speaker 2:All right, let's talk about arrested development guys, we have wandered off the trail All right, let's talk about this guy.
Speaker 1:Stop maturing at 19. Now, not all, but a lot of them do, and that's the mindset that I want to hit on. There are seven things that go into this stopped maturing at 19. Mindset Number one is this to them, women are a means to an end. They look at women as objects, they objectify women, and the means to an end for them is getting her in the sack, getting her in bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's unfortunately true, Christian or non-Christian.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, that's very true and that's kind of his end goal, his mindset. That's number one. Number two is this it's all about the conquest. It's all about the conquest, the challenge of pursuing that next female. That is elusive and she's not quite yours yet and so you, uh, you do a number of things to get her to be interested in you, but it's all a challenge. It isn't about the depth of the relationship, it's about the conquest of the next relationship. Number three this guy uses charm to disarm, charm to disarm. He's quick to say I love you to her if it works right. If it doesn't work, he'll never say I love you. It's like pulling teeth from this guy to get him to say that.
Speaker 2:But if he has to, he'll go nuclear yeah, I would say if it's necessary, if it's necessary he'll, he'll go nuclear and he'll say I love you and that's what she's been waiting for.
Speaker 1:And then she starts picking out the curtains and thinking about walking down the aisle and having a family together. He's not on that same page at all, ladies. He's a 19 year old male in a 35 year old body and he's thinking to himself. I'll say what I need to say to get to my end goal and end to means. His object all right, and that's you.
Speaker 1:Number four soon shows signs of disinterest once he gets what he wants. Now he shows signs of disinterest. Um, sizing up his next conquest. That's what he's really doing. He's begun to look at the menu again and so he made his order. The order was you, he got the order, he ate the meal and now he's back to looking at the menu again. And if you're wondering, why is he so? He seems disinterested. I don't know. He was so interested a while ago. Now he's, he's kind of lost interest. He's sizing up his next conquest.
Speaker 1:Number five occasionally, occasionally, love bombing to keep you on the hook. So if he, if he feels you slipping away and you starting to become disinterested, he will. If he feels you slipping away and you starting to become disinterested. He will love bomb you, he will overwhelm you. He'll get your cards and letters and flowers and take you out to a nice dinner and tell you how much you mean to him and he's just. He's just backfilling, right. He's just re reinforcing that relationship with you Cause he doesn't want you to slip off the hook.
Speaker 1:Don't mistake that for wanting to have a long-term relationship. He just hasn't landed his next conquest yet and so he wants to make sure that you don't slip away. So he's like in between dates. Okay, so that's the love bombing. Number six lets you do all of the work of keeping the relationship alive. And, ladies, if you're at that point where you're feeling like man, I am doing all the work in this relationship and he just doesn't seem engaged and he doesn't want to seem to do his fair share, there's a reason for that. He's sizing up his next conquest. He's probably well down that road already. He's lost interest. He'll let you do all the work to keep the relationship alive, but as long as it's on life support, he's probably okay with that, because he's pretty close or he's already over the edge with his next relationship.
Speaker 2:And I think there's an easy, maybe temperature to check on that one, which is if you're always texting first or you're always calling first, that's an indicator.
Speaker 1:Right, you're always calling, you're always texting, you're saying I love you.
Speaker 2:And he says K K.
Speaker 1:And you don't get anything back in response or you get something tepid and lukewarm. Okay, he's already at number six, he's letting you do all the work. And finally, number seven takes no responsibility. Let's you take the blame for the end of the relationship. He'll either turn it all back on you or let you take the blame for it, but he doesn't really care anymore. This is a guy that doesn't take responsibility in any part of his life. He is the wash rinse repeat mentality of a male age 19 in his heart and his spirit and his maturity. He might be 35 or 40 years old, but he never matured past age 19. And he gets in that wash rinse repeat mentality because he loves the latest conquest and you were the last one, and so he just kind of let you go. So there you have it. All seven things that kind of describe that guy that stopped maturing at age 19.
Speaker 2:And I think there's two questions that that guy asks, and the first is well, what's in it for me?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, Do I have? What am I going to get if I put anything into this relationship? What am I going to get if I take her to this event? What am I going to get if I take her to this event? What am I going to?
Speaker 1:get if I buy her this gift?
Speaker 2:And the second question is what's the path of least discomfort for me, what's the least I can do to keep this girl hanging around, Because it's not that I don't want her around, it's just that I want to have a kind of a multiplicity of choices here, and the scripture really talks to this. And it talks women. You're not exempt from this. But the scripture says this in first Corinthians, 13, 11,. It says when I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. And and if you're looking for a long-term relationship that lasts male or female, you want someone who's not just willing but eager to give up their childish ways.
Speaker 1:And I always tell people that if you're looking for a relationship that lasts, a relationship with Jesus Christ is the only one that really lasts. Now, you might not want to hear that and you might think well, why are they too religious all the time? It's true, and that's what we're trying to share with you. Here is the truth about life. Relationships between human beings are fickle, and I just gave you seven reasons for why they're fickle with men Not all men, but a lot of men. But the one man that will never be fickle with you is Jesus Right, and that's the basis of our relationship and that's why our relationship has lasted 40 plus years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we truly do believe the word of God has all we need for life and relationships. Um, there's one thing you mentioned in the opening I think we need to touch on, and that's that I can change him mentality, because that's his oldest time. Right, but why doesn't that work?
Speaker 1:Well, okay. So women are wired to be fixers and God kind of made them that way. Why Cause they can juggle more things than a man can. They can put food on a table, they can do wash, they can grade a paper, they can deal with a child's boo-boo, they can listen to you, they can start a multinational corporation, you know, they can fill out the paper. They can do all of that at the same time. I can't even find the peanut butter in the pantry. That that's like maxes me out ever.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you for that. And, uh, that maxes me out. So men are very myopic. They can do one thing at a time. Women, they're multifaceted. So with that mentality, a woman looks at a relationship with a man and says, well, yeah, there's some faults here, but that's no problem, I can fix it because I'm a fixer and that's what I do. And so, in a hopeful, almost a naive kind of way, they think I'm going to. I'm going to fix that guy. It's a form of manipulation. Guys usually are resistant to that. And if you see any or all or most of those seven markers that I just laid out for you, ladies, run away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't walk.
Speaker 1:Don't. You can't fix that. You're not going to get that guy to all of a sudden, at age 35, decide he's he's done being a bachelor. Now he's going to sit down and be committed to you. He doesn't have the equipment. He doesn't know how he's gotten so, uh, invested in that 19 year old mindset he's going to carry that out for the rest of his life. That's why he's that age and he's still single. He's not a catch that just slipped through the cracks. He's a guy that there's a reason that other ladies passed on him in the past, because he's got a wake of destruction behind him and you don't want to be the next. You know, check on the block in his uh, on his belt and so pass on that guy.
Speaker 1:The guy that you really need to look for is the guy that takes on his responsibilities and he doesn't demand his rights. He demands his responsibilities. One of the things here's a huge marker that you're going to look for. This is a guy that tells you he wants a committed, long-term relationship with you. He's willing to wait for you and he's also not wanting to jump in bed with you. This is a guy that says to you that's going to wait until after we get married. When you get a guy that's committed to that, ladies, that's the guy. That guy is committed. He's going to put the horse before the cart, not the other way around, and he means it Now.
Speaker 1:Don't say, well, just because he said it, now that's the guy. Let's jump in the sack together. No, that doesn't work that way. This is a guy who's going to put parameters and safeguards in the relationship to make sure that you are secure, you're taken care of, you're thought of, and that guy has already been doing that up to this point in his life and he's going to continue to do those things after you get married. He's not going to be the guy that you somehow fix to get to start thinking that way After you get married. A woman thrives on security. When you see the markers of security, for instance, he's patient, he's going to wait on you. He's not trying to manipulate you to jump in the sack with him. None of those things. He's committed to the Lord Jesus Christ and he loves God more than he loves you. When all those markers are there, that's the guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just want to say that there are guys who will say I want to, I want to protect our relationship, I want to make sure we stay, uh, pure, we're not intimate before marriage, who then continue to put you in compromising situations and they don't mean what they say, and so you have to take them at their actions, right?
Speaker 1:Not their words. Not their words.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's really really important.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, absolutely. So again, this guy might be rare, he might be, but he's out there and you got to go to the right places to look for him. You're probably not going to find him at the local bar, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right yeah.
Speaker 1:That's not that mindset. So, uh, why? Why can I the change in mentality, ladies? It's just not gonna work.
Speaker 2:Let me throw in a real quick parenting tip. If you have an older teenage daughter and and you're like why can't she see that these guys she likes are just no good, why does she? Why is she always so hopeful? It probably started when she was a little girl. And so those of you with younger daughters who have brothers as siblings, if you see them continually trying to change their brothers, telling their brothers how they need to live, telling their brothers how they need to act, telling their brothers what is and isn't appropriate, teach into it early. You are only responsible for yourself, you're only responsible for yourself. You learn to do what's right and they'll carry that into when they're ready to start looking for a mate of. I can't change him, I can only change me.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this question now. So you said the mentality of a woman many times is oh, I can change him. Why do guys this is my opinion why do guys not get into that mindset? I've never heard I don't know too many guys that go, oh, I can change her.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. Why is that?
Speaker 2:not a male.
Speaker 1:Thing.
Speaker 2:I. I think it's laziness Cause, I think they go. Eh, I'm not going to work on changing this one. There's lots of fish in the sea. So I, where women are women, are more loyal at the beginning of a relationship. They're like oh, I dated, I'm dating this guy, I kissed this guy, I must marry this guy, Right? They go down that road where guys are like eh, we'll see.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so it's much easier to just go. Well, I'll try again with someone else, Cause this is gonna be a lot of work to change this one okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, that that makes more sense like bring some clarity to that topic. So, ladies, what I'm going to say in this episode is watch the wash rinse, repeat mentality with guys. Dig a little deeper, get to know them on a character level, on a spiritual level, not just the glossy he's a good looking guy, he pays attention to me, he says all the right things level. He might be a 35 year old that stopped developing at age 19. Look for that. Dig a little deeper, find out what his history with other women has been. How long did the relationships last? What did they look like? Did he start to do any of those seven markers that we laid?
Speaker 1:out, go back and rewind this episode and watch those seven things again and say, okay, the guy I'm dating right now, he's got five out of the seven, okay, well, there's a indicator for you of where he is and what his mentality is. So, having said that, watch that, wash, rinse, repeat mentality You're not going to change it.
Speaker 2:Right, you're not going to change him. And, ladies on your part, when you get a good guy, grow up, it's time to grow up. That scripture is just as clear for the women as it is for the men. It's time to take on our priorities and not take them on begrudgingly but go. Hey, this is the new time of life and this is who I am, and there is joy and fun when you can do that.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely All right.
Speaker 2:Well, this has been death by adulting. Uh, remember, when it comes to adulting, what doesn't kill you, just makes you tired.