Death By Adulting
A podcast focused on helping you make decisions today that you won't regret tomorrow. Hosted by Dr. Steve and Megan Scheibner. The Scheibners share wisdom and advice regarding marriage, parenting, dating, communication and even sex.
Death By Adulting
Parenting with Compassion: Teaching Respect and Rules
Is it possible to foster obedience in children without resorting to overbearing methods? Discover the answer with Dr. Steve on this illuminating episode of "Death by Adulting." We promise you'll gain powerful insights into why teaching children to obey quickly, completely, and without complaint is not just a demand but a crucial parental responsibility. Through practical examples, such as the potential hazards of a child running away in a busy area, we highlight the real-world implications that underscore the importance of immediate and joyful compliance.
Building emotional and spiritual security is another essential topic we tackle. We address the pitfalls of overbearing discipline that can lead to insecurity and emphasize how kindness and communication build trust and safety. For single parents grappling with this task, we offer hope by discussing how a parent's relationship with God can provide the needed stability. By comparing parents to the unwavering walls of a building, we illustrate the necessity of consistent rule-setting and mutual respect, especially in divorced families, for the well-being of children.
Ever wondered how your child's personality affects their approach to obedience? We dive deep into understanding different child obedience personalities—thinkers, feelers, and doers—and offer practical advice for guiding each type effectively. Learn how to navigate differences in standards, like media consumption, without breaking fellowship and understand the spiritual importance of teaching children to respect rightful authority as a foundation for obeying God. By the end of this episode, you'll be armed with the tools to foster emotional security, spiritual growth, and a strong moral foundation in your children, equipping them to face life's challenges confidently.
On this episode of Death. By Adulting, train your child to be obedient. It's not a four-letter word. I did what you asked. Why are you upset about my attitude? Is mere compliance enough, or should you expect more? Why do I have to clean my room? Your room is a wreck too. Dealing with double standards and inconsistency plus much, much more. Roll the intro.
Speaker 2:I wish that I knew what I know now when I was younger. Welcome to Death by Adulting. I'm your host, Megan Shifer, here with my co-host, Dr Steve, and that was a lot in the intro, you know. We got a lot of ground to cover today.
Speaker 1:We're jam-packed in this episode.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, we are jam-packed so we're going to jump right into it. And you mentioned that obedience is not a four-letter word, although I would say many of the young couples we talk to kind of feel like it is.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, because we're opposed to obedience right.
Speaker 2:So we kind of take our attitude towards obedience. We didn't like it when we were kids, we don't like it when we were adults. We're kind of averse to any sort of instruction or authority in our lives and so we impose it on their children. So so somehow we feel like we don't have the right to ask for obedience and we're here to tell you you absolutely, it's not just a right, it's a responsibility to make your children obey.
Speaker 1:It's a privilege, right? Remember, we talked in past episodes about the difference between having to do something and getting to do something. You're the parent you get to. You get to train your children to be obedient, and it may just save their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we'll get back to that in a minute. So what is obedience? Because we want to make sure that how we're defining it is how you define it right. You may have a different idea, but for the from the death by adulting table and Dr Steven Megan, here's our definition of obedience. Obedience is children obeying quickly and completely, without question or complaint. That's a really easy little acronym to remember, right? But we want our children to obey quickly and we'll talk in a minute about why that's so important. Completely right, like all the way with their obedience, because half done obedience really isn't obedience, right? Um, I just lost my thought.
Speaker 2:quickly and completely without question now there's going to be some pushback against that. There does come an age where your children can say I don't understand this instruction, why do you want me to do this?
Speaker 1:but they earn that right to ask that question and that's, and that, the way you put that, that's very nice. That's different than why? Why?
Speaker 2:do I have to do that. Nobody else around here has to do it.
Speaker 1:That's, that's an attitude. Right, we'll deal with that, which gets us right into the final one which is without complaint, right, right.
Speaker 2:they need to learn to do it with a good attitude. Another way that we set it around our home was I would tell the children especially when they weren't quite in trouble yet, but I could see them beginning to boil with disobedience. I would say raw, very simple, and they understood what I meant by that, which was right away. I need you to obey me right away, all the way. For example, when I say to put your clothes away, it's in the drawer, not on the floor. And the happy way which really, as a Christian, should be the joyful way, but it sounded weird but the happy way is you know, it's a privilege to obey, it is. There are children with disabilities who don't have the privilege to obey, and, as adults, it's a privilege to obey God and that's what we want to teach our children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that concept right there. It's a privilege to say it again. It's a privilege to obey God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a privilege, yeah, To obey God, and the unsaved world doesn't have that privilege. By their very nature, they cannot obey God.
Speaker 1:I wonder how many of us feel like it's a burden to obey God. And it's not, it's a privilege. You're one of the King's kids and, having said that, wow, what a privilege to be at that place, right when you can have a God that you obey.
Speaker 2:But we begin teaching our children that when they're two years old, maybe 18 or 18 months even. We're teaching them that and so. So that's what obedience looks like, and and I will tell you that if it's not right away, delayed obedience is disobedience. If it's not the happy way, we're to do everything without grumbling or complaining. There's tons of scripture to back up these concepts. But why, in a practical sense, is discipline and obedience so important? And really, there's three reasons why. I'm going to say them real quick and then we'll go back and teach them. There's a physical reason obedience is important. There's an emotional reason that obedience is so important. And there's a spiritual reason that obedience is so important. And, steve, do you want to kick us off with the physical reason?
Speaker 1:well, the physical one, uh, might not be as obvious as you think, but let's say you've got a child. That is that child that when you call them or you want them to follow some instruction, they giggle and run away. And maybe you even train them to do that, because maybe you're the kind of dad that's always chasing around the kids trying to tickle them and tease them, and so you've kind of halfway trained them to run away from you in a sense, or they just simply won't comply. There's that child too, and you call them and they tear off the other direction. Most of the time that's no big deal. It is a big deal if you're near a busy road and you're trying to go into the doctor's office you're going to, you're in a parking lot and you're going into the mall and, uh, and you see a car coming. You see the danger that lay ahead, mom and dad. You see the danger that lay ahead and your child is not holding your hand at the moment. There may be at a distance and you say, junior, come here now. And that child turns around, giggles and runs away. They could run into the car, they could run into the traffic. They around, giggles and runs away. They could run into the car, they could run into the traffic, they could run into the danger. They could run away from you when you're at a mall and you're in a public place.
Speaker 1:We had this happen when, um, our oldest boy was three years old. Uh, he wandered off in the mall and I called him and called him and he was out of earshot at that point so he couldn't be obedient. But he he. We had told him to stay with us right now. I wasn't going to hold his hand the whole time, cause you know it's like you're shopping and you're holding a hand and they're, they're kind of like. You know, come on, I want to go do this. I said you need to stay where around us while he wandered out in the mall and we were in an absolute panic. I can't tell you what that 10 minutes was like.
Speaker 1:It's horrible to think that somebody grabbed your child and they're out the door and they're in a car and you may never see that child again. So it's that serious. That's the physical side of the reason that you want your children to be obedient. It's not a matter of if it'll spare their life, it's a matter of when there's going to be some episode in the life of that child when they're in danger and they need to obey you instantly, right away, all the way, the happy way, without question or complaint. And if you haven't trained your child to that standard, it may put their life in jeopardy. I'm not trying to overstate that, that's just a fact.
Speaker 2:Well, on the next episode we're going to talk about responsibility. Well, on the next episode we're going to talk about responsibility, but there's this segue with obedience, where obedience for an older child begins to look like following instructions, because they've developed this heart of obedience Right, like, for example, a driver Right. You know what's it look like for a 16 year old who has a brand new license, and there's freedom involved in going, but there's still a following of instruction.
Speaker 1:So how does the obedience paradigm that we're trying to teach translate into something a little more nuanced, like they're not a little child anymore? Right, I just stated why we want a little child to be obedient because it may save their life by running into traffic. But now your kid's older, they're a preteen or a teen. They've got some wisdom and knowledge of their own. They're not going to, hopefully, run into the road, into traffic. But now they've got their driver's license. Now there's a secondary responsibility. We'll talk about that in another episode. There's a secondary responsibility and that responsibility could be life or death. I mean, a car is a very dangerous thing. It could be their own peril or somebody else's. So every new driver is just that they're new, they're inexperienced, they don't know as much as you do and they don't see all the threats that are around them when they're driving a car.
Speaker 1:They don't even know to be afraid, Right? So you spend your what 30 hours teaching them how to drive at least in North Carolina we had to do that and you want them to be obedient when you're not in the car. Now, they've got to follow your instructions when they're in the car, or they're never going to get to the elusive driver's license right, Because you're not going to sign them off. But when they're out on a solo and that's an important time because they gain a lot of confidence and so forth but you want them to follow the rules. Like you know, maybe you said don't turn the radio on, absolutely don't be texting. If you're going to text or email or whatever, you pull over and stop the car first.
Speaker 1:You, you want to make sure that they're not doing those things when they're at the lowest level of experience in the car. That's a derivative of obedience. So we want our kids to be obedient in those moments, even when we're not around, and that's the key to obedience. The key to obedience is they're obedient even when your back is turned and you're not right there watching them. You know, if they're obedient when you're there watching them, great. But the standard needs to be bumped up to.
Speaker 2:they're obedient even when you're not there and this physical level, I think, is one that we need to not trust like oh, I bet my kid would stop from running in the road. I'm pretty sure my child would stop if I said stop. If you aren't absolutely confident, you got to spend time training into that. Say to your children we're going to practice saying you're going to learn this because this is so, so important.
Speaker 1:Well, most parents' philosophy of parenting is this I keep my fingers crossed and hope it works out Well. That's not a very consistent philosophy of parenting, right? How about some assurance and some security in the life of the child, rather than oh, I'm pretty sure when push came to shove they'd do the right thing, right?
Speaker 2:Would you want to bet their life on that? I wouldn't. And that's that again falls into that we get. We have the right. We have the right to make sure they're obedient. A middle schooler who has access to the internet. I don't want to cross my fingers and say, well, sure Hope they don't go to any dangerous sites. I'm going to check their history because bad things can happen.
Speaker 1:What a tragedy when you've got that, that philosophy of parenting that hopes everything works out, when in your heart of hearts you know that they're not obedient, that they're not compliant, that they're kind of foolish in that way, and you're just hoping that they don't ever run into a situation where their foolishness will harm them and have a permanent consequence.
Speaker 2:How about?
Speaker 1:doing the extra work, mom and dad, to make sure that they're obedient in those situations. Yeah, I understand it's more work to get them to comply, but it may just save their life and there's nothing more important than that.
Speaker 2:And that leads really naturally to the second important step, which is this Obedience provides emotional security.
Speaker 2:Yes, it does step, which is this obedience provides emotional security. Yes, it does. Um, when children know the parameters of obedience, I can go to the fence, but I can't climb over it and go in the neighbor's yard. Um, I'm allowed to be out until 11, but if I get home after 11, I'm going to be grounded right. When they know those parameters, it provides them great emotional safety, because this is a really topsy-turvy world, and not just for our toddlers.
Speaker 2:All the way up through teenagers, they're trying to figure out what's going on and who do I trust and what's dangerous and what's safe, and learning obedience gives them that emotional safety that they can take a big deep breath and go. Mom and dad know what's best. They've given me these rules because they love me and when I stay in the rules I can relax. Right, it's the same for me as adult and adult. You know, I, when I became a believer, it took me a while to look at the things God asked me to do in scripture as his loving care, rather than God was a party pooper, Right.
Speaker 1:But when I?
Speaker 2:when I turned that corner, when I, when I hit a situation that's like, oh, I'm just not sure and I can go to the word of God, I go. Oh boy, I don't have to make that decision, it's already been made for me.
Speaker 1:Well, it really, it comes down. It comes down to the philosophy of uh, do you view God as a cosmic killjoy I was trying to put his thumb on your enjoyment or do you view him as somebody that always has your best interest in mind, his glory, your good, everything he works out in our lives is to that end, and you've got to examine yourself and say really, what is my philosophy about God? Do I see him as this like always wanting to rain on my parade kind of individual? Or is it a relationship that I can have with him where he's always got my best interest in mind? Uncomfortable as that might be, he still has my best interests in mind and sometimes it works out and sometimes it's a little more work on our part. But I think the bottom line on all that is what is your thought philosophy about God? Is he a cosmic killjoy?
Speaker 2:And then how are you representing him in your parenting with your kids? This emotional one, especially if you are a parent who just do it I said, do it, do it now. You know, just that kind of overbearing, bully, um, obedience isn't going to be something your children are drawn to and it's not going to feel safe. But if you're kind and if you're communicating and if you're, you build that trust relationship where your children, if, if someone said to them why do you obey your mom and dad?
Speaker 1:Cause they love me more than anyone else on earth, right, and that really ought to be the response they have. But you build it. Well, I've said over the years that, um, children gain security, right, and if they're secure, if your child is truly secure, uh, they can take on anything that life throws at them, absolutely anything, uh, anything. And the number one security is if mommy loves daddy and daddy loves mommy, if they're certain of that. But if they're overhearing arguments all the time and they hear the divorce word thrown out in a heated argument, then it builds insecurity in their lives. Now, for those single moms, your relationship with God is that thing that replaces the dad that's not in the home, and it's got to be secure. Do they see you opening up your Bible, having a prayer time with God? Is there consistency in all of that right? Do they listen to you talk about God freely and openly all the time, like he's a vital part of your life? Those are the things that build security in your lives.
Speaker 1:The illustration I like to use is this you, as the parent, are like the walls of a building. Look around you wherever you are right now and think about the walls, especially the external walls. If you went over and you pushed on a wall pushed real hard, you'd expect that wall to stay put and not move. If that wall began to groan and move, how would that make you feel? It would make you feel very insecure, like the roof was going to fall in on you.
Speaker 1:That level of insecurity comes from when our children quite literally push on us. They'll test the rules, they'll test the parameters. They'll do that over and over again and you've just got to be consistent. Whatever standard you have for your home and your family, just be consistent with it. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. You can do that with a smile on your face and when you're consistent, that child can continue to push. After a while they'll back off and they won't push nearly as much, but they'll be secure. They'll know well, hey, when mom or dad says something, they mean it. I could go keep pushing on that wall, but it's not going to change.
Speaker 1:It also has to do, kind of with our relationship with God. It's the same sort of security. God is the same yesterday, today and forever the scriptures tell us and he's not going to change, he's not going to vary with every wind or fad of the day that comes along. So you can push on God all you want, but he's not going to change. There's a certain security and loving kindness that comes with that consistency, and so, mom and dad, we're giving our children a picture of a consistent God through our consistency with them. Sure, they're going to push on the parameters as often as they can, but you got to stay put.
Speaker 2:And just a couple thoughts with that. What keeps us from being consistent is just we're tired.
Speaker 1:You know, let's just be honest.
Speaker 2:Um, we as parents get tired and one of the things you and I did for each other is we put a smile on our face and would say to the other parent well, thank God, another training opportunity. Here I go, another training opportunity. And that little bit of humor between us gets you off the couch to deal with the issue and be consistent. But just a word to our followers who are divorced. You said the number one security is mommy loves daddy, daddy loves mommy. Now that can feel like a heavy burden, but can I encourage you? There's a reason you got divorced and we know some of the contentions being counselors that have led to divorces. But for the sake of your children, they need to see that even though we're divorced, mommy has a deep care for your daddy, right? Even though we're divorced, daddy has a keep deep care for your mommy and we love you Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can say that my my parents weren't believers by any stretch of the imagination and they were divorced when I was two years old. But one of the things I knew, my mom was bitter about the divorce, but she never let me know that at any age, especially as a toddler. But then in my really formative years, she was always consistently supportive of my dad, even though I, when I became an adult, I realized that she probably wanted to say a thing or two. But she held back from that for my sake and that was a sacrificial thing on her part. That was very important. Yeah, all these things that we've discussed just now build emotional security in our children and that's hugely important for their development.
Speaker 2:And thankfully we have a God that, whether whether we're an intact family or a divorced family, backfills our mistakes, but we need to do our part. All right, I said there was a third way that obedience is so important, and we've been touching on this third way over and over as we've been going along. But it is spiritually, because, as our kids learn to obey the rightful authorities in their life, which would be, first of all, their parents, perhaps grandparents, teachers, police officers, perhaps a pastor Now, not blindly any of those people, correct- perhaps a pastor, now, not blindly any of those people learning to wisely practice obedience.
Speaker 2:They are learning to obey God, and so I want my kids to leave my home obedient to the Lord, which doesn't necessarily mean they're going to look like me, you know, I think there are. There is this kind of I don't know false goal of parenting that says, well, when my kids leave the house, I want them to dress like me, worship like me, listen to the music I listen to, use the same type of vernacular I do read the books I like, right? And the goal is never that our children become carbon copies of us, right? I want their walk with the Lord to be better than mine.
Speaker 1:I mean, I started out late, wait what they don't have to be little clones of us. Wow, what an epiphany that was.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I you know, I know you're sharing that and I hope you can sense the experience level here between the two of us eight kids, all right, and I think it wasn't something we set out to do, but I think it was in the background. We kind of figured they'd be like us yeah, there'd be a.
Speaker 1:There'd be a pastor, you know but to the extent that now you have that many kids, you have one kid, that kids, there's going to be a lot of similarities. There's going to be a lot of things. They pick up your idioms, they pick up your speech patterns right, your personalities and all that stuff. There's lots of stuff that up, but I mean we're talking about like they should be, exactly like us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we know they should think exactly the same way we do. Yeah, and they didn't. Those little urchins, oh my word, how rude is that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know and we have here to tell you it's a train wreck. It is I don't know when the train wreck's coming, but it's coming.
Speaker 1:It is. It's borderline, abusive. It is Right. Let your kids be who they're going to be, much as this pains me to say so. Their walk with the Lord might look different than yours. It's okay. You said it in one of the beginning episodes of Death by Adulting Different isn't wrong, it's just different, okay.
Speaker 1:Now, when it comes to the word of God and they're not supporting the word of God and they're not being obedient to it, do you want to speak up as a fellow believer and say something? Absolutely Go ahead. I would do that with a friend at church or somebody else. Go ahead, mom and dad, speak up and let your thoughts be known on that subject. Just a little different standard than yours. Let's say, use the example of movies. We've said over the years we're not going to watch R-rated movies. And your kids come out and say, well, I'm going to watch an R-rated movie. Is that? Are they going to hell for that? I mean, are they not saved because of that? Well, no, it's a different standard and I might not be happy about it, but that's their choice. Ultimately, they're going to have to answer to God for the choices that they make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're God. They're God for their choices.
Speaker 1:That's fine, that's okay. Should we break fellowship over that and never have them in the house again? No, please.
Speaker 2:At the simplest level. When our kids are grown, they fall into the love your neighbor as yourself category. And there are neighbors, if nothing else, not physically. We moved an hour away for everyone's wellbeing, um, but. But we can certainly ask good questions, we can have a dialogue, but in the end they answer to God and we answer to God, right.
Speaker 1:Yep, spiritually speaking, uh, they can be different, um, and they're even entitled to be wrong, and sometimes they think we're entitled to be wrong. Yeah, there's like, oh no, there's occasionally times that they're like you and dad did what you did what? And?
Speaker 2:you go. Hey guys, it doesn't say we can't in the scripture, right all right, we want to hit one last area with this, and we touched, uh, probably three or four episodes ago, on the three personality types that help in the decision-making process, right?
Speaker 1:The thinker, the feeler and the doer.
Speaker 2:And I just want to give a mom's perspective on how these. You really begin to understand your child's personality type by how they approach obedience. And so if you're thinking, wow, I wonder if my child's more of a thinker or a feeler, look at how they approach obedience. So, if you remember, the thinkers are those people who are organized, orderly, they like structure, they like routine. I think they're brilliant, probably the best personality type. Shall I go on?
Speaker 1:Megan is a thinker of my words.
Speaker 2:It took me a while to think about what I was going to say there.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, All right but those are your kids.
Speaker 2:Those are your kids that you call them to some act of obedience. I want you to go clean your room. And you come in and it's like they're frozen and you say why aren't you cleaning your room? And they say well, I was trying to decide. Do I do the toys first or make the bed first? Should I dust my desk or should I sweep the floor? They're like frozen.
Speaker 1:Thinkers are so annoying.
Speaker 2:But we get it done when we get it done. So just help them, help them with that. Thinkers are, thinker children are prone to delayed obedience and remember I said in the beginning, delayed obedience is disobedience. So you want to really help them with that. So with your thinker kids, you're going to say I want you to clean your room, this is how it looks, I want you to put your toys away, I want you to throw the trash away. Then I want you to make your bed, be very methodical with them, maybe even write them out a list so that they can work through it. That's how you help your thinker children.
Speaker 2:And if you've been wondering, if you have a thinker child and they freeze every time you give them some instruction, they're giving you a picture into their personality. Second is the feeler children and my feeler children. I would send them to do something. I would say you know, I want you to go to bed now. They'd come downstairs they say mommy, I drew you this picture of the two of us together and we're holding hands and look at the heart around it and and the simple term for that is that's a burnt offering. You know, I want obedience quickly and completely, without question or complaint and they gave me something emotional that we could connect over.
Speaker 2:Now you know, I'm not going to tear up the picture. I'm not going to say you know, what do you think you're doing? I don't, I don't love you when you do something like this. We're not going to be abusive in our tone or we're not going to. You know, crush the child, but you do need to teach into it. I didn't ask you to draw a picture, and when you bring me something that is different than what I asked for, you're disobeying and I need you to obey. You must learn obedience. I love pictures from you, but let's do it at an appropriate time, and the real peril here is if you're a feeler parent yeah and that feeler child brings you that lovely little picture.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden you're drifting down the river, all feeling all the feels, and you look back and you go. They never really did what I asked them to do. Well, that's because you guys are adrift on the river feeling all the feels. You got to check yourself too on that one.
Speaker 2:We really only had one feeler child. I felt bad for her because she got crushed by all the doers and thinkers in the family. But but, moms of of feeler children, you need to teach into the appropriateness of a, of a time, appropriateness of a situation, over and over and over again until they get it. And then finally, the doer children. They may be the most easily identified personality because they just always have a better idea. And remember, doers are those idea people and they you. You know well, if that's good, I can make it better, right. And when you give them an instruction they're going to try and one up you and with those doer children, someday their ideas are going to be worth so much and they're going to be huge leaders in whatever they do. But you're not a good leader if you haven't learned submission to authority, which looks like in the workplace. Five of our kids now own their own businesses, but they didn't start out as business owners and they had to learn to subordinate their ideas to their bosses.
Speaker 1:And here's a producer editorial note at this moment bosses, and here's a producer editorial note at this moment Doer, children are absolutely brilliant. You should give them everything they want all of the time. Yes, it might be more expensive, but it'll pay off in the long run when they sign that major league contract.
Speaker 2:Just saying A side note from the other producer doers are exhausting.
Speaker 1:Genius always is.
Speaker 2:All right Obedience. Why is it so important? Lots of good reasons, so don't be afraid to require obedience of your children. You're going to segue into something else at some point, but if your children don't learn obedience, there are so many pitfalls ahead for them in life.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's very true. All right, that's a pretty good rendition of obedience and why it's important. And and I think we defined it fairly well, it's got. It may save your kid's life at some point. Um, it's going to build emotional security for them, for sure, uh, and ultimately it helps them be obedient to their God. And that is in the long run, long after mom and dad aren't around anymore. That dividend is going to continue to pay off, despite all the snark between the two of us. So it's. It personally affects us and our home and the quality of life and everything else. So obedient is. Obedience Isn't a four letter word. It actually is a necessity, and I guess a necessity in the life of our child and for the wellbeing of the family. And just another form of love.
Speaker 2:It is truly just another form of love, which is a foil of the word. Yes, so this has been Death by Adulting. Yes, I'm Megan Scheibner with Dr Steve Scheibner, and remember, when it comes to adulting, what doesn't kill you just makes you tired.