Death By Adulting
A podcast focused on helping you make decisions today that you won't regret tomorrow. Hosted by Dr. Steve and Megan Scheibner. The Scheibners share wisdom and advice regarding marriage, parenting, dating, communication and even sex.
Death By Adulting
From Parent to Friend: Nurturing Adult Child Relationships
Unlock the secrets to evolving from an authoritative parent to a cherished friend to your adult child. This episode promises to guide you through the intricate journey of parenting, offering valuable insights and practical strategies for every stage of your child's development. From setting firm boundaries during their formative years to adopting a coaching mindset through their teenage phase, we cover it all, ensuring you're well-equipped to foster a relationship rooted in love and mutual respect.
Our discussion doesn't stop there; we draw parallels between parenting and the world of sports. Imagine yourself as a trainer and coach, preparing your child for life's challenges while encouraging resilience and independence. We stress the importance of allowing your children to learn from their mistakes, providing constructive feedback that equips them for the transition to adulthood. It's about guiding without dictating, supporting their decisions while standing back to let them experience both triumphs and setbacks.
As we reach the pinnacle of the parent-child relationship, we explore the transition to friendship in adulthood. Sharing personal anecdotes, we highlight the tools necessary for nurturing this bond, from open communication to shared family activities like group texts or a fantasy football league. By respecting their autonomy and offering advice only when sought, we create an environment where trust and friendship flourish. Whether through daily conversations or fun family endeavors, the goal is to build a lasting connection that transcends the traditional parent-child dynamic.
On this episode of Death by Adulting, how to become friends in time with your children, how to be successful in the journey from authority to friend in the life of your child, plus much, much more. Roll the intro. I wish that I knew what I know now when I was younger.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, welcome to Death by Adulting. I'm your host, megan Shibner, with my co-host and friend, dr Steve Shibner, and friend and friend. I'm excited about this episode. This is something we talk to a lot of couples about Couples our age who are struggling with a lack of friendship with their kids, and really young couples who are watching just run themselves ragged trying to to be best friends with their kids. And there's gotta be a better way.
Speaker 1:There is and there's a progression in that place, because it's it's a good goal to want to become friends with your children, but I'm going to say your adult children.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, you don't start out as a friend. We're going to walk you through all that on this episode, um. But it doesn't start out there and you observe other families and boy, it's all over the map, right? Some families are, they can't abide each other. Their kids are grown and gone, they don't even speak to each other. And there's others that are just as tight as a nap and they just laugh and joke all the time. And he said well, what's the secret here to having a close-knit family? Not a perfect family, there's always issues in every family. We all get that. There's issues in our family as well. But a close-knit family, there's a lot of love. What's the secret on that? And we're going to kind of walk you through the various phases of how to get there from here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not that hard, but it does take some work on our part.
Speaker 1:Yep. So let's jump into where we left off in last week's episode and I want to show you the graphic that we had up last week and we talked about budding primary and secondary responsibilities. If you recall this tree, if you didn't see last week's episode, go back and watch last episode. But budding primary and secondary was all about responsibilities. Now, in tandem with those responsibilities, I want to talk to you about a progression and you can see I've got a kind of a chart here on the right hand side of your screen that starts down at the bottom with birth and goes all the way up to the adult years, and I'm going to fill in each one of these boxes and the ages that you see on the right side of your screen are General Steve and Megan.
Speaker 2:Guidelines. They're guidelines.
Speaker 1:We came up with those. There's nothing scientific about it, but we've been at this a long time. We had eight kids. I've got a PhD in parenting. There's quite a bit of science behind this, but it's not the day they turn six. It's got to be this way, right, right? So it's in general. So I've said that now. So let's go back to our graph here and let's talk, megan, a little bit about where we start out. So, birth to six years. The parent is and read that word the authority in the life of a child. What does it look like to be the authority in the life of a child?
Speaker 2:what does it look like to be the authority in the life of a child? It looks like I instruct and the child obeys and that's okay. I mean, I think there's a real fear in our culture of being the authority, like I don't want to be the authority of my child, but that's absolutely what they need In that age range having a parent both parents, hopefully who are authorities, kids security. It's the walls of security that help our children feel secure, they can trust us, they're comfortable in their surroundings. Um, steve, talk, talk a little bit about, um, uh, what walls of security do when a child pushes against it, because, although absolutely we need to be the authority, that doesn't mean our kids are going to go. Oh, please, mommy, be my authority. I love it when you tell me what to do. None of us do we don't like authority.
Speaker 1:All of us have problems with authority, and so, especially in the life of a child, they're going to push back at that. And that illustration is really a rich one, because, as you say to them, no, you must do it because mommy said so, and you give them instructions, and hopefully clear and unambiguous instructions. We've talked about that on past episodes. Don't say okay at the end.
Speaker 2:You just made it optional.
Speaker 1:You can do that Must and now are your best friends. But as your children push back on the direction that you're trying to give them in their life, it's like me pushing on this wall behind us right, the death by adulting wall is right back here. And if I went and I pushed on that wall, you would expect that wall to stay put and not to give way. But if I pushed on that wall and, mom and dad, you are the walls in the life of a child, you are the standard. Whatever standard you pick for your family, just make sure it doesn't move, it doesn't bend. And so when they come and they push back on the standard, they expect it to stay put. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Just be consistent with that and your kids will be secure. But if they push on you and they will they'll push on you all the time.
Speaker 1:They'll push on you 20 times, a hundred times a day. You know who knows how many times they'll push back, push back, push back. And if they do and you move, the standard shifts back and forth, it builds insecurity Cause why, if that wall behind me begins to move, guess what? The ceiling's going to fall in and it makes me feel very, um, insecure, right, right. And so the same thing with a child. All they need is consistency from you with whatever standard is that you set. Now you might be saying, well, if I don't set a standard, I don't have that problem. No, if you don't set a standard there, there you're really going to have a neurotic, nervous child.
Speaker 2:Just look up any of the studies. It's very interesting. You would think children who had no boundaries would be just happy, good luck. Happy as can be, but they are the most fearful children now so if you're saying consistency, that means that if something is a standard or a rule um, on monday but tuesday I have a headache and I'm laying on the couch it still needs to be the rule yes, yeah, it needs to be the rule, yeah, and, and in this age, to be the rule, yeah, and in this age, quite honestly, at the beginning, there is no why attached to it.
Speaker 2:I don't have to explain to my children as the authority Simply obeying me, because mommy, is the big why. Now, as they get closer to that upper edge of five, I'm going to begin to teach into why and here's why we do that. But on none of these age groups. When a child, when I ask a child to do something, and they're kind of belligerent with me and they say why I'm right that's not an answer that they have earned right that child, a child that does that all the time.
Speaker 1:why? Why? Why they're manipulating you and don't put up with that. That's a verbal freedom that they haven't earned. When they get to be older, there's an appropriate way to ask a why question, but it's not that there's a difference between the demanding I don't want to do this You're imposing on me why and a sincerely curious mom explained to me why you want me to do this?
Speaker 2:Why do we always do that, mom?
Speaker 1:That's different. Okay, so that's going to come later on down the road. Okay, so let's go back to our graph here now. So we started out as authorities in the life of the child. We've explained that Next. Now we're going to become the trainer, and a trainer looks different than an authority. It's not quite a coach yet. What talk to me about what a trainer looks like.
Speaker 2:Well, a trainer is, they're kind of in the game, right, they're not just on the sideline. And so in my home a trainer looked like I'm coming alongside you. You had a misunderstanding with your friend down the street. We're going to talk together and role play how you go make that right. I don't just say go get right with your friend down the street. We're gonna talk together and role play how you go make that right.
Speaker 1:I don't just say go get right with your friend and I'm not gonna go get right and I'm not gonna go right with, you get right with your friend, when the authority phase, if you got a three-year-old or a four-year-old, that gets wrong with somebody mom and dad, you might have to go fix it you may march them down and say you need to ask you need to say you're sorry, you need to give back the toy you took, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:As a trainer, I'm going to ask good questions. I'm going to say, well, how do you think we resolve this right? And then, well, tell me what you would say to your friend. Okay, great, I would add this if I were you right we're helping them. Uh, it could be as simple as a chore, it could be as complex as a broken relationship, but we're kind of in the game with them, asking good questions, helping them fine-tune how life goes. If you think of a trainer.
Speaker 1:There's two trainers I think of, like a physical therapist, and then we love baseball.
Speaker 2:So we go to baseball games.
Speaker 1:Before the baseball game gets started, especially the professional games, there's trainers out there and the guys are running and they're stretching and they're throwing the ball back and forth and then you see a trainer. He's got a guy's leg and he's like that and they're out there with them exercising these guys. It's not that the trainer's sitting. Now the coach isn't doing that.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Right. The coach is sitting back in the dugout, you know, sipping a latte, getting ready for the game to get started. The trainer is the one that's out there with them participating in it, or side by side.
Speaker 2:But that's going to change at some point. When we go from trainer to coach and if you think about it, the trainer is the one that says yeah, you probably know how to do this, but we're going to do it again. Anyway, we're going to keep doing it until I know.
Speaker 1:You know what you know right and but the trainer is also not doing it for them. The trainer is not the player that's in the game. The trainer is the one that's getting the player to get ready to be in the game. That's the role of the parent. So, mom and dad, many times we get that out of the line. We're just like well, I'll do it for you, the snowplow parent, the resume parent, the helicopter parent, I'll just do it for you. I'll, I'll write that paper for you, I'll make that excuse for you. I'll go confront that teacher for you. No, no, no. Those are not appropriate things. You need to allow your child to fail.
Speaker 1:And on the flip side of that, in this age, there's a lot of parenting. Now that is, I don't know you figure it out and they're not ready to figure it're doing what you're doing in order to get better, and so the same thing with a parent You're trying to get that child to get better at being an adult and you're going to walk them through that process. That's your role, okay, so that's very good. That's a good explanation of a trainer. So let's take a look now at the next phase, age 13 to 18-ish. Again, these are very general ages. You might have a more mature child, but now you are the coach, and the coach, as I alluded to earlier, is sitting in the dugout. They're sitting on the sideline. They are not in the game with now. Were they helping with practice during the week? Absolutely. Were they blowing the whistle on the sideline? Yep, they're not in the game with you. They're not helping you stretch. They're saying to you did you stretch? Yep, okay, if you didn't stretch, you're going to pull a hamstring.
Speaker 2:And they're yelling encouragement from the sidelines. I know you got this you know the game plan.
Speaker 1:We've gone over the game plan. When I was a trainer, we went over the game plan. Any questions for me before you go out into that big old world out there? Okay, and then the coach is going to let him fail. You watch it all the time Every Sunday at football. You know the coach is over there, he's got the clipboard and somebody on the team screws up. He takes a clipboard, he throws it on the ground, he stomps around. Mom and dad, you're going to do a fair amount of that, but you're doing that from the sideline. You're not doing that. You're not saying OK, that's it. I'm saying this, but there's a fair amount of parents that do that.
Speaker 2:Well, here's a good illustration. Think of when your child goes for a driver's test. You can't get in the car with them, but as they're heading out the door, you say to them remember everything you learned.
Speaker 1:You've got this. That's a really good example of what a coach does. So a coach has gotten the game plan put together. They've walked them through it, they've helped them along the way, but now they're going to give them the freedom to fail, and that's hugely important. Mom and dad, you've got to give your kids the freedom to fail. They will fail, but we learn more about life. We build more character from our failures than we do our successes. Why? Because we fail in life more than we succeed, and you've got to let your children fail as well. It's okay.
Speaker 2:And there are good coaches who, when their child fails or when their athlete fails, ask some questions and help some recognize where the failure came from and how to do things different. And there are bad parents and coaches who just yell. And so who are you going to be Right?
Speaker 1:So again, that's a good example. So if you're a good coach and your kid, you let your kid go out and your kid failed, epic fail, uh, that child eventually comes home.
Speaker 1:They might not want to acknowledge the failure and you say, okay, well, let's talk about that, that that didn't work out so well, what went wrong? And then you have a debrief after the game, basically, and say, okay, what went wrong? Well, all right, I taught you differently than that, didn't I? Yes, dad, yes, mom, you did okay. What are you going to do differently next time? I'm not going to do that again. I'm not going to trust that guy, I'm not going to do okay. Good, you know, it might be a while before you get the keys to the car back, but once you do, I think you're going to have learned this lesson, all right. And then, mom and dad, you got to be the judge of that.
Speaker 2:And then the next thing that a good parent does, a good coach does, is they don't make excuses for it to the public, correct. So and and you know again, we're sports fans the coaches come up after a bad game and they don't say you know, well, he had a toothache and he didn't get enough sleep last night, right? They say no, no, he needed to have his pitches. They weren't hitting the spot, you know. And so so you say you know what? You're right. Um, I'm sorry, my son really, really blew it last night. We've addressed it and I can assure you it won't happen again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you imagine saying about your 17 year old oh, he's, he's teething and he's, he's a little colicky. That's why he's he's a little colicky, that's why he's the way he is yeah, you know, we started out. Mom and dad. You started out making excuses for your kids and it didn't do you any good.
Speaker 2:And then I think about. We had a uh, 16 year old because he hadn't had his license very long, who had left for school early in the morning and about seven minutes after he left the phone rang. And that's. You know, as a parent, you're. Oh, there's been an accident.
Speaker 2:It's a dreadful phone call, yeah, and it was a police officer. And he said to Steve, you know, I have your son here by the side of the road. And Steve could have said, oh, you know, he's such a good boy, don't do anything. You know, what can we do to get him out of this ticket, out of this ticket? I don't want him to get points. And instead you did say, well, he's a good boy. But you said well he's.
Speaker 1:The police officer said yeah, I can tell that already. And I said look. I said do that cop thing man. I said you, you need to put the fear of God into that kid. I said cause he's. He's just at that age you know what I mean when he thinks he knows everything. I've talked to him about it. He drives too fast.
Speaker 2:He does and.
Speaker 1:I said if you give him a ticket, that's fine. Of course I'll pay it. I said, but at the end of the day, or maybe he'll pay, it, He'll pay it yeah.
Speaker 1:We'll work on that. I said but you do what you need to do. I said but if you could really ham this new best friend? He said oh yeah. He said that's why I'm back here talking to you right now. He said I got the whole shtick down. He said I'm going to give him the full thing and he did. Now he gave him a warning to let him off, but he put the fear of of the police into him. Yeah, which was an important developmental step for a kid who had a lead foot right where we could have stepped in and tried to make it better.
Speaker 2:There's times, as a coach, nope, you just gotta let.
Speaker 1:Got to let it happen, don't make it better, yeah, and if you can pile on, that's okay too.
Speaker 2:Nicely, pile on nicely, pile on nicely.
Speaker 1:Be a good parent and pile on nicely. All right, now we're going to end up where we want to end up. So let's go back to our graph here. We start out as an authority in the life of a child. Coach, be the parent. Okay. Now we're going to end up, hopefully as friends, and this is again 18 and above. This is the goal is being friends with your kids. A lot of parents get this backwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They get it upside down. They try to start out by being a buddy, being a pal, being a peer, and then they become more of a coach. You know like well, I feel funny about saying this Then they become a trainer. They're in the game with them, they're manipulating them when they're 13, 14 years old Because they're worried they're going to fail Right.
Speaker 1:The kids are pushing back all the time, like, leave me alone, let me have some space, and then they become the authority in the life of the child when they get to be 16, 17, 18 years old. I'm going to crack down on you. I should have been harder on you from the beginning. Well no, you should have been an authority in the beginning. That doesn't mean to be mean in the beginning, just be the authority. But you got it backwards. If you crack down on a 16, 17, 18 year old, it'll break the relationship and the day they turn 18, they'll hit the road and they won't darken your door again. So mom and dad, put this in the right way end up as friends. Now, how would you characterize our relationship with our adult children?
Speaker 2:Oh, we're definitely friends and I know that because when something exciting happens to them or something hard, we find out with all the rest of their friends. You know they text us, they text their friends. It's an interesting thing for me. I do ladies retreats at our beach house. Just follow us at characterhealthcom, you'll find out about those. But often the ladies are stunned by how often my kids call so at 3.30 in the afternoon.
Speaker 2:I have eight kids, the phone starts to ring because that's when the 3.30 is, when the first one gets off work, and then it just continues. And they aren't calling because they have to kids, you don't have to. Um, they're calling just because I'm part of their world. They aren't asking for money, they just call and tell me the funny things that went on in their day.
Speaker 1:They text me sometimes instead, but there's this open line of communication and the world of memes now has opened up that you know, uh, the fire hose of memes especially with me and the boys and you and and the boys, and they all, they're sending memes back and forth to each other.
Speaker 1:It's got to be a special one for them to send me a meme, but I'll do it sometimes it's fun, it helps us to laugh together, it's saying, hey, I'm thinking about you while I'm away, and that's really important. It's that family identity that you wanted to build didn't get built by mistake. You started out as an authority, you became a trainer, you're in the game with them, you're on the coach, you're on the sideline, you're giving the freedom to fail, you're teaching into it when they do, and eventually you become a friend with them. I want to talk just in the last couple of minutes here, this episode, about just some tools for the adult friendships. You talked about one, which is you're texting back and forth with each other. What are some other?
Speaker 2:things. So this is probably the most important tool and this is just a self-control on the part of the parent. I think all of my kids would say they know they can share what they're going to do with me or what they think, without me immediately falling back into authority mode and going oh, you can't think that way, you can't do that. Here's what you have to do instead mode and going.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can't think that way, you can't do that. Here's what you have to do instead, and that is a self-discipline. Because, because, if you want to maintain that friendship and be a friend that they'll come to for counsel, wait till they ask for it, don't shove it down their throats, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like when they were little and you were putting them down into bed and they opened up that little window of their heart to you. Mommy, do you think about? Or I, like a boy?
Speaker 2:or I like a girl.
Speaker 1:You know that that conversation. Don't don't go in and rearrange the furniture. Well, it's the same thing. When they become adults they're going to share with you stuff. They're raising your grandchildren, their own children, and they share something with you that you would be appalled by, but they think it's funny with their child and you just have to go oh well, isn't that wonderful? And just kind of not weigh in. You have to be asked in yeah right, you can't barge in anymore.
Speaker 1:You, you say, we will do this with our kids. We'll say are you asking me for advice? And I make them say it three times. Are you seriously asking me for advice? Because if you're asking me for advice, I I want you to take it, but I don't want to just give you no. Mom, dad, I want you to tell me what do you think? Okay, third time. Here's what I think.
Speaker 2:And if it's a married child, we add a question which is does your spouse know you're talking to me?
Speaker 1:Right. Right, because otherwise it could easily just be gossip, especially if it's about the spouse. Yeah Right, yeah. So you know we don't want to be a party to gossip, kind of the paradigm that it is is as an authority and even as a trainer.
Speaker 2:Our kids asked our permission and we informed them of what they were going to do. Now that we're friends, they I asked them good questions about their life and they inform me of what they're going to do.
Speaker 1:So we have a family group text. We've had that since they were old enough to get. They earned the right to have a phone, right, right. So we started the family group text and everybody's on it. Uh, and it's a riot. You know cause it? It dings all the time. I'll be up speaking at a lecture or something and my phone's in my pocket and I'll. I'll feel it, yeah it gets going.
Speaker 2:I know the family text.
Speaker 1:Something really funny just happened on the family text. The other one is we're all in a fantasy football league together and Sundays. Well, it starts on Thursday night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it starts Thursday night, but.
Speaker 1:Sundays it really fires up and I mean the trash talking is out of control. But you know what? It's fun and it's a way for us to stay connected even though we're here there and everywhere. We've moved over the years and we're not all right in the same house anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the very first thing you said is what it is. Friendship with our kids is a goal. It's a goal, it's not a destination. When they're born, we don't start there and they don't need us to start there. They have lots of little friends. I'm not a little friend, I'm your mommy, right.
Speaker 1:So be the parent and in the authority phase. That means you don't have to be mean, you just have to be an authority. Right, say what you mean, mean what you say, put a smile on your face. Don't say okay At the end. Just I'm telling you. Then you become the trainer. Now it's a little looser. Uh, let's talk about this, let's discuss it together.
Speaker 2:Here's some ideas. Why do you think that's a good?
Speaker 1:idea's, some ideas for you. Then, when you become the coach, now it's like, well, you know, you tell me, what do you think is the see how the progression has changed. Instead of me now it's, will you tell me what do you think is the right thing here? Okay, all right, and you might disagree at some time, you go okay, well, give that a try, let's see how that works out right give them enough leash to fail and then eventually you become friends and that's a free for all.
Speaker 1:It's like a free range chicken thing. That's just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:And you're friendly in all of those phases.
Speaker 1:You are, yeah, you are. This is a good episode. I like this. This is practical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for our kids, we're really glad you're our friends. Yes, I'd pick you even if you weren't my kids. I would too. This has been Death by Adulting. I'm your host, megan Scheibner, with my co-host, dr Steve Scheibner. And remember, when it comes to adulting, what doesn't kill you Just makes you tired.