SINK OR SWIM | How a Native Cosmetologist Went From Student to Salon Owner with Help from Sequoyah Fund, Inc.

In 2008,  the salon where Julie Painter worked at while she was a student in cosmetology school was about to shut down because the owner was leaving to work in education. Painter's options were to work at a different salon two hours away in Asheville, N.C. — or buy the Visage Salon where she worked and become a business owner.

"There were two options in front of me," Painter, a member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, said. "And I went with option two.” 

Painter admits that she “was in a terrible place for starting a business” at the time. She had a low credit score and no experience running a business, but she was determined.

Then she met Russ Seagle and the Sequoyah Fund, Inc.  Here's their story. 

Difference Makers 2.0 is a new yearlong series that highlights how Native community development financial institutions (CDFIs) work alongside their small business clients to accelerate change and create economic opportunities in Native communities. Join the Native CDFI Network and Tribal Business News as they shine a spotlight on the people accelerating economic change in Indian Country. Read the stories here and be sure to tune into the Difference Makers 2.0 podcast.

Transcript

Elyse Wild: 0:05

What does it take to start a business? Certainly funding a solid business plan, and according to Russ Seagle, CEO of the Sequoyah Fund Inc., takes grit. Since 1996 the Sequoyah Fund, a certified native CDFI, has served citizens of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina, with lending products, small business coaching and financial literacy training. When Julie Painter came to the Sequoia fund almost 20 years ago, looking for capital to purchase a salon, she was 25 years old, barely out of cosmetology school, had no business experience or credit, but what she did have was grit. Keep listening to learn how, with the help of a Sequoyah Fund, Julie built a thriving salon, found creative ways to stay connected to her clientele during the Covid-19 shutdowns, and gives back to her local small business community.

Julie Painter: 0:53

Hello. My name is Julie Painter. I own Visage Salon here in Dillsboro, North Carolina. I'm an enrolled member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, and I am a lived in balayage color specialist.

Russ Seagle: 1:06

And I'm Russ Seagel. I'm the CEO of Sequoyah Fund, a native CDFI serving Cherokee and surrounding counties here in western North Carolina. I'm not a tribal member, but they've been gracious enough to adopt me and seem to want to keep me around for whatever reason.Yeah, and happy to be here. Thank you.

Elyse Wild: 1:25

So Julie, we are going to be talking about your business today and how Sequoia fund has helped you grow, sustain that business and make a big impact with it. So before we get into the details, tell us where you were in your life when you decided to go out on your own, hang your own shingle, start your own business.

Julie Painter: 1:44

At that point in my life, I was, I think I was 25 years old, so I was, I was pretty young. I was on the older end of the spectrum for going to cosmetology school. Though, I think a lot of the girls in my in my cohort, were a lot younger than me. But I was 25 I had been working in the salon that I now own all through cosmetology school. My boss had taken a job with a major like hair care company, and she was going to be educating for them full time. So her options that as were presented to me were, you know, I'm either going to close the salon down, which would mean for me to work with the company that I wanted to work with, I would have to drive to Asheville, which is about an hour away from me, or I had the option to purchase her business. So I went with option two. I think, at the point where I was looking for a business loan, and did not even have my full license yet. I didn't I hadn't taken my state board exam. I wasn't even fully licensed. I was not in a great place as far as my credit score. I was not a good credit risk for starting a business. I was in a terrible place for starting a business. But I knew that I either had to sink or swim. You know, it was something that if I was going to do this, failure was not an option, like we had to succeed. We had to do everything possible to succeed. And I knew that I had the passion for the industry. I had the passion for the product company that that we had. So I had all of those elements there, but I definitely didn't have the elements there that a traditional bank would look for.

Elyse Wild: 3:27

So all that being said, what you just described are conditions in which a lot of people would not start a business. So what? What gave you the confidence? What made you confident? Like, hey, I can do this. Of the like, we gotta sink or swim, and I think I'm gonna swim. What was that factor for you?

Julie Painter: 3:47

Probably a little bit of just delusional insanity, to be honest with you, but more of just a sense that I didn't have a choice but to make this work. It was something that I wanted to do. It was something that, you know, I was walking into a business that was well established and had a really good clientele. So I knew the business that I was purchasing was in good shape. It was in good shape, even if I wasn't in good shape. So we grew together, myself and the business, we grew up together, and I was able to, you know, make it even more successful over the years, but, yeah, I think just kind of this delusional insanity that I have to make this work. We have, we have no other choice.

Elyse Wild: 4:32

So Russ, tell me when you first met Julie, and tell me as well when you first met Julie, what qualities did she have as a business owner that Sequoyah Fund looks for in people that you guys are gonna, you know, invest in, whether that be through lending products or through technical assistance and mentorship. Time

Russ Seagle: 4:54

I actually met Julie after she had gotten her first loan.

Julie Painter: 4:58

I've been with the Sequoyah Fund longer than he has.

Russ Seagle: 5:01

I came on board in early 2009 I think you got your loan. Was it 2008?

Julie Painter: 5:06

2006, I believe.

Russ Seagle: 5:09

Okay, so, yeah, she predates me by She's much older than me. Anyway ...

Julie Painter: 5:13

Hey now.

Russ Seagle: 5:14

So she had this loan, and so I met her after the onset of the delusional insanity. But right about the time I came on board, was when she was looking to relocate and expand. And so that's that was the phase where we were introduced. And you can call it insanity, if you want to, Julie, but what we look for is exactly what Julie has, and that's grit. I think grit is one of those often overlooked qualities in an entrepreneur. She didn't found the business, but this is not the same business it was when you took over. You have made it your own. She's an incredibly hard worker. When we look to lend money to somebody, we're not looking for a perfect credit score. We're we're looking for somebody who has that, what I would call the "gotta wanna" ...

Elyse Wild: 6:12

Love that.

Russ Seagle: 6:12

You know you gotta, you gotta want it more than anything. You gotta be willing to put in the hours. You gotta be willing to put in the work, and you gotta be willing to overcome, adapt and overcome, make things happen when things don't go your way. So that, I mean, that defines Julie. I think that is, that is the one thing that we look for, more than anything else. If we see somebody who, maybe, before they ever started a business, they were what we would traditionally call a job hopper, somebody who couldn't keep a job very long... kind of says that they don't have the grit to stick out the tough times, things that just don't go their way, they jump ship. And so we're looking for somebody who's got that stick-to-it-ive-ness. and as somebody who really wants it, and she just checks all the boxes. To this day, checks out. I was just, I was we were just talking before we started this interview, that she played catch up after being sick, she's been working eight days straight to play catch up and but that's what you've got to do, if it's your business, if it's your livelihood, if people count on you, if your customers need you, and it's not like, it's not like, "Oh, this store is closed. I'm going to go buy something at this other store, because my favorite store is closed." They're not just going to go down the street and have their hair colored by somebody else they want you, right? You are the product.

Elyse Wild: 7:32

So Julie, tell me about what were some of the really hard times where you did have to rely on your grit to get through. Tell us about some of those times.

Julie Painter: 7:44

Well, honestly, even the year that I started, like the first years that I started, we went through, you know, the housing market crisis of 2008 ... that hit this area really hard, because a lot of my clientele, you know, their family business was in construction or construction materials, finishing things like that. So that was, that was kind of the first hardship that we had ... trying to navigate an economic time where my my customers and my clientele were having having issues, you know, buying their groceries, much less getting their hair done. So you really have to make sure that you're you're providing a value to someone that is worth more than even the hardships that they're having. So a lot of times, even with hair like we're providing not just a hair service. We're providing, like therapy to some of our people. They they can come in, they can talk about their problems. They can escape their problems for a little bit. So really learning how to provide that kind of value that went beyond just the service that I was giving them. And then we, you know, we've navigated the covid shutdown of 2020. Of course, that was a time where we all lost our jobs for three months. We were shut down by the government. We were told that we couldn't work at all. We couldn't open our business. And that was really scary. That was something, you know, I still had to pay my bills, still had to pay my rent. I worked every day through the shutdown, running product to people who would place phone orders, or running like color kits to people just doing anything that I could to make sure I kept that connection with my clientele, not just to to make $1 but to make sure that we were maintaining that connection, so that when we did open back up, they still felt connected to us. We were still a place that they could come and not just feel beautiful, but forget the problems that were going on in the world at that point in time as well.

Elyse Wild: 9:44

Wow. I didn't think about, I know, when we had our interview, we talked about Covid. But now I'm like, Oh my gosh, and you started in 2008 like, What a time to start a business. So Russ, tell me about the ways that you guys like beyond you know the lending. So I know that Julie said you got a loan to buy a building and, you know, expand your business. Tell me about the other ways that you interact with Sequoyah Fund, and how Sequoyah Fund just supports you and has been that institution to lean on during the time that you've had your business.

Julie Painter: 10:18

Absolutely they have been instrumental. Like he said at the time, that we were expanding, not just expanding into a new building and expanding our space, but we bought a very expensive piece of equipment we started doing like mystic tan spray tanning at one point in time, and that was a very huge purchase for us that ended up being great return on investment. So they helped with that. They also helped after Covid, when I actually purchased my commercial building that we're in now, they did another, you know, remodel loan for us, so that we could make it into, you know, a new home and our permanent home. Now, I'm never moving again. They've been instrumental in every step of our business and every pivot of my business. So it's really been, it's been one of those relationships that without the Sequoyah Fund, I don't know that we really would have made it through all of the things that we did make it through, including, you know, housing crisis, covid, all of all of those things that we had to pivot from Sequoyah funders right there.

Russ Seagle: 11:23

I think you even got one or two Sequoia fund clients, right?

Julie Painter: 11:27

Oh, we do, yeah, absolutely, absolutely not just they pay my bills in other ways.

Elyse Wild: 11:35

So, Julie, I understand that you are a very in demand colorist. Tell me about where you are at your point in your career. With that I you know, Russ tells me your schedule is quite full. But also tell me about how many employees do you have at the business. Tell me how it looks different today from when you started.

Julie Painter: 11:52

So I am very, very blessed to be in demand. I book out anywhere from six to eight weeks in advance. I have a pretty healthy wait list. I am expanding into the educational realm. I'm teaching my first class for my own curriculum next month, so we're going to be teaching that.

Elyse Wild: 12:13

Congratulations.

Julie Painter: 12:14

Oh, thank you. I'm very excited about I'm very nervous, but I'm also very excited about it. But when I started, when I first bought the business, it was just myself and an assistant. So as we have grown and as we have expanded, I now have a three chair salon, but I have five stylists that split their time in those chairs. I have a assistant as well. She's not full time, but she's, you know, she's here with me and helps me manage everything from my schedule to my educational pursuits to just hands on shampooing and things like that. So we, we went from a a two-person show to six people working, you know, five days a week, six days a week. Sometimes I work seven days a week. It really seems like when you own your own business, the the work never ends. There's always something to do. And I'm just one of those people that I always seem to pile more on myself. I get bored if I don't have a million projects ready. Russ is laughing at me, but yeah, we've, we've, we've really expanded our operation and expanded our offerings, and been able to stay really, really, really busy throughout even, even some hard times.

Elyse Wild: 13:29

What I've noticed throughout just our conversation is that you strike me as someone who doesn't like rest on their laurels, like you probably could just be like, Oh, my salon is doing great. Just gonna like, wow, enjoy this. And I'm sure like not enjoy this, but I really like that you seem to want to grow as a person and grow in your career like you're, you know, from where you started to now, not like you're doing your first class next month and you're doing this and this and this. And that's that's really cool. I love that that's really inspiring.

Julie Painter: 14:01

Thank you. It's you know, part of it is the industry that I'm in is fashion and beauty and things change in an instant. Trends change in an instant, and you you have to be able to keep up.

Elyse Wild: 14:12

So Russ, tell me when I asked you when we had our first interview, when I was asking you about a client to feature you immediately said, I know exactly who. I know exactly who, and obviously it was Julie. Tell me how Julie exemplifies you know what the impact that Sequoyah Fund seeks to have on the community that you guys serve?

Russ Seagle: 14:32

I think that happens in a couple of ways. I think number one, she has really made herself an integral part of the business community. She's not only, by the way, not only run the business, but during the time she's run the business. You went and got an MBA

Julie Painter: 14:50

I did.

Russ Seagle: 14:51

And how crazy is that? And so she is such a key part of the business community. That's nuts. Anyway, she's such a key part of the business community here. And you know, her salon is, what,13 minutes outside of Cherokee. And so she's created this regional following. It's not like all of her customers are within walking distance. People come from a lot of a lot of different places to use their services. I think the other impact she had was that she just exhibits all those qualities that we look for in an exemplary business owner. That when we started to look at how was our board structured, what are the skill sets we need on our board of directors at Sequoyah Fund. We want to make sure that we have entrepreneurial representation. We want to make sure that we have people who understand both sides of what we do, not just the community development part, but also the financial part. And she's had a lot of experience with with our loans and our loan products, things like that. So when we looked at filling board seats. I mean, Julie was one of those names that came right again, right to the top, because we value that insight. We value that experience. If we're sitting around trying to make decisions, she's looking at this from an entrepreneur's perspective. She's looking at it from the client's perspective. And it's always about what's best for the client? How can we do this for the greatest impact? And we've got some board members who don't talk very much, but when they speak, you better listen. And when Julie chimes in, you better listen. Because what she has to say, I can't think of a time when we when we've sat around and said, "Oh, that's, that's great. We'll make a note of that." But we're never coming back to it is, you know, she always brings that value to the board. We know that through tough economic times that there are, there are three things that people will always do. They will always eat. Well, I mean, even in the Great Depression, if you saved your money, you ate chicken or beef at least once a week, you did something, you tried to be entertained. We try to escape that tough economic condition that we want to escape from. And the third thing is we want to look good, and people will spend money on looking good. So she started a business in a tough economic environment. She has weathered tougher economic environments. And when, when people would come to us during Covid, and they would be crying in their cereal about how things were just not good, we were pointing to Julie and saying, "Look, we've got a client who's out there. She's making deliveries, she's taking stuff to people's homes. She's doing what has to be done to keep the busy she she started doing online ordering." And you were taking phone or you just doing all kinds of things and and I think that was a huge impact, that we actually had somebody we could point to and say, be like Julie. Do what Julie's doing, because she is making it happen. She's not going to sit around and say,"Woe is me." she's been through tough economic times before, so she's, she knows how to deal with this.

Elyse Wild: 18:07

Yeah, and I really like what you said earlier about, you know, at that time, you're investing maybe not so much in, you know, people's dollars for your services. But like, let's keep a connection here. Let's you know that that being like the bottom line at that moment in time.

Julie Painter: 18:23

It was the time when people really craved connection as well.

Elyse Wild: 18:27

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I I remember during, during Covid, like the early days of Covid, I got like, a facial kit from the place, like the salon I like to go to, and like, the owner of the salon was like, you know, she had like a zoom with all these different clients, and she was like, talking us through how to do a facial. And it was like, God, it's so that's so creative. And so, you know, and just like, obviously, like, that was like, almost five years ago now almost, and I'm like, I still go to her, like, and I had just started going to her as a client at that time before Covid happened. But I was like, Oh, this is, this is cool, like she's texting me, asking me if I'd be interested in hopping on this zoom. Like she knows my name, she's she's doing the outreach, like it really left a big impression on me.

Julie Painter: 19:09

Yeah, you remember how that made you feel?

Elyse Wild: 19:11

Yes, yeah, yeah. And I'm still, like her talking me through how to do, like, a facial on my own face, whereas, if I was to go in, you know, which I love, but I still like, wash my face the way that she taught me how to on that Zoom call. Like, at her explaining, like, this is why we do this. Is Why do this. I was like, Oh, awesome. I love that. My last question for both of you, Russ, from your perspective, as you know, being in the Sequoyah Fund, someone who's worked at a CDFI for a very long time. Julie you as a an entrepreneur. Tell me what advice do you have for someone who has an idea for a business, wants to start a business, is maybe nervous, and is maybe thinking about reaching out to Sequoyah Fund, but it's like, I'm a little scared. I'm scared. What should I do? What's your advice for those people?

Julie Painter: 20:03

My advice would be, I'll go ahead and go. My advice would be, you know, make sure you have passion for what you want to do, because passion will get you through those those hard times. Passion will get you through those times that you're scared, those times that you don't want to wake up in the morning and go to work like having a real love for what you do it. I know this sounds so cliche, but if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life, and that is so true. And being your own boss and being able to set your your own schedule and set the kind of service that you want to give to people, and the kind of customer service that you want to have, like being in control of all those elements is is absolutely amazing, and I would not trade that for the world, but I would tell people that you really have to love it, and you really have to have passion for your business and put your business first. And if you're willing to do that, you'll be fine.

Russ Seagle: 21:00

And you took the word right out of my mouth. I was not going to use the word passion, but I was going to use the word why. And you know, one of the things we look for in people who walk through the door and apply for a loan is, is your WHY bigger than I just need to make some money Because if you just need to make some money, you'll find all kinds of excuses to stay in the bed, right? That is, it was a tough day yesterday. I'm not doing this again. I'm pulling the covers back over my head, and that's it. And if your why is bigger than that, you're going to be willing to tough it out. And for people who are a little bit afraid, maybe there's some trepidation there about starting a business, I would say, just pick up the phone and give us a call. Talk to somebody at the Native CDFI, because a lot of times we've been there, I've I've started a lot of businesses, some successful, some we won't talk about, and you're going to find somebody with an empathetic ear who has seen other businesses just like yours, has talked to other people just like you, who's seen the kind of fear that you have. And I'm not going to say that we don't try to talk some people off that ledge. I mean, there are clearly some people for whom Small Business Ownership is not where they need to be, and we count that as a positive outcome, if we can help them save their money, don't go into debt. I always like to say that when we tell people, no, it's not necessarily a forever, no, sometimes it's not right here, maybe, maybe this is not the right place for this. Maybe it's not right now, the timing isn't right. It's like everybody was shifting gears during Covid, trying to do something else. Well, are you really going to be able to do that? Is that going to be a thing that you continue after the pandemic? Is this the right time to do that? And maybe not this way. So not right here, not right now, not this way. There's a fundamental flaw either in the way you manage money, the way you manage your time. Maybe there's some fundamental flaw in your business plan that we need to help you work out again, it's going to come down to grit. If somebody comes in and they're a little bit fearful, but we can tell that they've got that grit about them, that they're willing to to put in the work and do what it takes to be successful a la Julie, then we can help them down that path. So I would say, just pick up the phone, talk to somebody, and let us help you take those first steps. Look, nobody wants to hear that they have an ugly baby, and so we're not in the business of people sitting around saying, you know, that's a terrible business idea. I would never do that. Maybe I wouldn't, but sometimes we help. We have to help people see for themselves, where are those blemishes? Where are those flaws? And if you can figure out what needs to be done, then you're going to be a stronger business owner. So sometimes it's just, hey, we don't know if this is going to work. Let's write a business plan and see what happens. And it's much easier to do that than to just go start throwing money at it.

Julie Painter: 24:03

And I think that's why this equipment is so valuable, because we can look at those intangibles, those things that you know, really you can't put on paper and help people with those things you know, like if they have the grit to start a business, but maybe they have an ugly baby, we can. We can direct them into something that boils down that idea, into something that's a better fit.

Russ Seagle: 24:25

And to be clear, there are no ugly babies. I just use that metaphor, but I mean nothing wrong with a baby. You Russ, you're like, there's some ugly businesses.

Elyse Wild: 24:37

Yeah, yeah, you guys. Thank you so so much for your time. Is there anything else that either of you would like to say before we sign off here,

Russ Seagle: 24:44

I would just encourage people again, pick up the phone, call the Native CDFI, talk to somebody. We don't have all the answers, but we know a lot of people we can call, and we have resources that we can throw your way and to that in the continuation of the business. If we were a bank and Julie stopped making her payments, our relationship would be in jeopardy. We would, we would start bringing things to an end pretty quickly ...as a CDFI though, our first default move is, let's throw some resources her way so you are you are never really free from the CDFI. Once we make you a loan, we want to make sure that we we give you the resources you need to stay healthy, to be successful and to keep moving in the right direction. So it's not just about the loan, it's about the relationship.

Elyse Wild: 25:36

Yeah, friends for life, once you start.

Julie Painter: 25:39

Yeah, never getting rid of us. They're never getting rid of me.

Elyse Wild: 25:45

Thank you for listening. Difference Makers. 2.0 is a production of the Native CDFI network and Tribal Business News. See you next time.