Difference Makers 2.0

FROM SMALL LOANS TO BIG IMPACTS | How Native CDFIs Empower Communities and Tribal Sovereignty

• Host: Elyse Wild | Producers: Native CDFI Network, Tribal Business News

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“If you are not at the table, you are on the menu.”

That sentiment guides Native CDFI Network CEO Pete Upton as he works to support Native community development financial institutions (CDFIs), advocating for policy and funding to elevate economic development across Indian Country. Upton always works to make sure Native CDFIs have a seat at the table when decisions are being made that affect Native communities. 

As we approach the halfway mark of the Difference Makers 2.0 season, Upton sat down with podcast host Elyse Wild to discuss how Native CDFIs are helping small businesses and creating opportunities for Native communities. They also share some of their favorite stories from the podcast episodes so far and how NCN champions Indian Country’s voice, ensuring Native communities always have a seat at the table.


Difference Makers 2.0 is a new yearlong series that highlights how Native community development financial institutions (CDFIs) work alongside their small business clients to accelerate change and create economic opportunities in Native communities. Join the Native CDFI Network and Tribal Business News as they shine a spotlight on the people accelerating economic change in Indian Country. Read the stories here and be sure to tune into the Difference Makers 2.0 podcast.

Elyse Wild:

Music. Tell me what made you confident to move forward and to, just as you said earlier, jump in with both feet and do it. That's a very brave thing to do.

Sue and Garry Raccine:

Well, who's confident? You know, I've always been a person that have, I'm not afraid to take a chance. You know, the only way you get something out of life is you gotta jump into it. You know,

Elyse Wild:

What you just described are conditions in which a lot of people would not start a business. So what gave you the confidence? What made you confident, like, hey, I can do this. Of the like, we got to sink or swim, and I think I'm gonna swim. What was that factor for you?

Julie Painter:

Probably a little bit of just delusional insanity, to be honest with you.

Donita Fischer (Cheyenne River Lakota):

Just through food. And healing through food is is just something that was really important to us, especially now that she's gone, and it's kind of like a legacy to to her, to build this in her spirit, in my grandparents and my dad as well.

Elyse Wild:

What you just heard are some of the native small business owners. We have featured on difference makers 2.0 so far this season, we've talked to restaurant owners, fishermen, salon owners, grocers and more, all native owned small businesses supported by native CDFI, whether through capital, mentorship or incubation, these businesses are the backbone of economic development in their communities. We've had a blast searching out these stories to bring them to you, and we hope you are inspired by them. For this episode, we're going to do something a little different as we approach the halfway mark of difference makers 2.0 I talked to Pete Upton, Executive Director of the native 360 Loan Fund, and the CEO of the native CDFI network, the organization that supports more than 70 native CDFIs across Indian country through policy advocacy, capacity building and access to capital. Pete and I discuss how native CDFIs are critical to building tribal self sufficiency and ultimately, sovereignty. We talked about some of our favorite stories from the podcast so far, and how the native CDFI network champions Indian country's voice ensuring native communities always have a seat at the table.

Pete Upton:

I have been involved with NCN since the grassroots movement goes back to 2011 - 2012, and I was actually elected to the first board of directors in 2012 at a San Antonio meeting that we had. And I have been involved in some capacity, one way or the other, of serving on committees or as an officer. And I am currently the CEO of the native CDFI network, and that has been since probably the fall of 2022...I believe time flies. Yeah. 2022 I believe. Yeah.

Elyse Wild:

Okay, I know you've been the CEO at least since I've been reporting in Indian country. So sounds about the same time, yeah. So Pete, tell me, how have you seen NCN and Native CDFIs evolve in your time with the organization? How have things changed?

Pete Upton:

You know, I think how things have changed is just, I mean, we've made so many progresses over the last five years especially. And I think we have a seat at the table native CDFIs have a seat at the table when it comes to philanthropy, when it comes to governmental organizations, we have a voice at the table, you know, and we live by this that if you're not at the table, you're on the menu, meaning that if you're not actively involved in the conversations that are going on when it comes to appropriations or philanthropy, giving or strategies, So many times, we are such a minority that we are often overlooked. And I really pride myself in really getting to the table as much as possible when it comes to philanthropy, when it comes to visiting with congressional leaders, serving on panels nationally, in Washington, DC, or, you know, serving on philanthropy, bank working groups, you always have to be active, and I see that more so with our native CDFI leaders nationally. We have such a broad range of great leaders locally, and they are actively involved in advocating for native CDFIs locally and nationally.

Elyse Wild:

That's fantastic. I know that you know, as someone who writes about Indian country, I'm a journalist in Indian Country, I always really appreciate meeting politicians, lawmakers, leaders, whether it's at a local level or a federal level, that have an understanding of Indian Country, because they've been doing. That engaged listening with organizations like NCN, that they're participating in those opportunities to learn, you know, because they're ultimately one the ones responsible for a lot of what goes on in Indian Country. So I That's something I've gained an appreciation for and understand how important that is.

Pete Upton:

I do see that a lot with our Native CDFI executive directors. There's so many of them, great leaders within our industry, and they have such a rapport with their state representatives, both nationally and statewide. So that's so important. And also so many of the funders, you know, great relationships with our funders. And our funders are in philanthropy. They're really reaching out to our Native leaders to find out how they can effectively invest more into Indian country. So that has been one thing that I'm extremely proud of. So we know that native CDFIs cover a lot of areas for Native communities, home loans, auto loans, credit building. I've even talked to some CDFIs that have banking programs for Native youth, which is just fantastic, but the podcast has focused on small businesses. Let's talk about why? Why focus on small businesses when we're looking at the impact of native CDFIs? I'm glad you asked that one, because it really is the core of what we do is we build communities. And you know, the native CDFI network, community development, financial institutions. So you can't have a community with number one, without homes. You can't have a community without small businesses, and you can't have a community without jobs, and with the small business owners, they provide economic opportunity for the community itself, through the creation of jobs and also with affordable I wouldn't say affordable. I think the word that I want to use is competitive wages for our native citizens within the communities, because you can't have it's a three legged stool. You can't have one without the other. You can't have small businesses without homes, and you can't have small businesses without workforce. So they really are stimulus for workforce in the community, and they really bring a lot of financial stability into the communities that they serve.

Elyse Wild:

So tell me what are some of the things you've seen native CDFIs achieve in terms of helping build tribal economies. What stands out to you and reminds you why you do this work.

Pete Upton:

You know, again, like we're up in Maine this week, as you and I speak, and we did a tour yesterday of the different tribal projects that were going on in Maine. And it all comes back down to again, building the community, you know, the from housing to small business owners. And I think more than anything, what I see is providing the community with livable wages and affordable, you know, affordable housing and the combination of what, what our native CDFIs do on a daily basis is they bring opportunity to the communities and with the the job creation that's created from small business development. The reason that I do do this work is the success that I see on a on a daily basis in the state of Nebraska. You know, we financed a female, native female owned concrete company. And when we first started working with them, they were doing maybe less than a half a million dollars a year. And over the course of the last five to six years, you know, that particular company there has skyrocketed to where they have, you know, federal contracts. Now, they have probably in excess of eight to ten million annually. So it's amazing the growth that you see within a small business. And then, you know, the other thing that it's not always the dollar volume that that we're looking at, it's just the small loan sometimes that we'll make to a Native artists, maybe a 500 to a $5,000 loan to a native artist. It's really impacting that one family of being able to maybe provide extra income on the weekends when it comes to going to native art shows. So native CDFIs, we impact on small scale loans to the large scale. A couple weeks ago, I was in Lewiston, Idaho, at an event, and we were talking to tribal leaders about $20 million loans for different community solar projects and the funding that is coming down through the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund. And two days later, I'm attending a native artist training in Lincoln, Nebraska, sitting around the table, visiting with a group of Native artists, talking about $500 to $5,000 loans. So what Native CDFIs do is they really bring affordable capital to the communities that we serve, and it's scaled to the needs of the community, because really it's the community that drives the demand for the products that the native CDFIs offer. That was the really the first time it hit me, is the importance of native CDFIs to the small dollar loans, because a $500 to a $5,000 loan to a native artist or to a native small business has just as much community impact as that community solar project at 20 million?

Elyse Wild:

Yeah, absolutely. I like the, you know, the parallel between those sound like two very different amounts of money, and it'd be a very different impact, but often it's the same. I appreciate that. All right, so now we're at the part where you are going to ask me a couple questions.

Pete Upton:

Yeah, you know, the interesting thing is, as you and I have worked on our Difference Makers 2.0 series, I guess the question that I would ask you is, with the interviews that you've done so far and the small business owners that you've have interviewed, what have you learned about Native CDFI so far?

Elyse Wild:

Oh, I love this question. So I went into this as, I think, as, you know, I used to work for CDFI so I already knew, like, how they functioned. I had an understanding of the need that they fill in communities that don't have the, you know, mainstream access to capital. But what I've really learned about Native CDFIs is really how the impact of helping someone, someone who walks through the door who like on paper, might not be like look super lendable, but has an idea and has a belief in themselves and has an understanding of their community, to the point where the CDFI will dedicate resources To get that person to a place where they are lendable, not just lendable, but very, very successful. And I've, I've really come to every single interview I've done. You know, I interview the CDFIs first, and I ask them, like, do you guys have a client that really exemplifies the work that you're doing and the impact that you want to have, and everyone always knows, like, immediately the person that they want me to talk to, which tells me about, you know, the relationships that they have with their clients. So I've come to see Native CDFIs and their clients as almost like a community within themselves. And I've really, you know, it's really inspiring to me. I've it's, I found it to be, and I was really, really meaningful and an honor to learn about. And I never interview someone, and they don't know each other really well, whether they already knew each other really well through the community, or whether it's just through the loan process or through their, you know, technical assistance, or, you know, someone being like, Hey, I am having trouble with I thought I wanted to open a food truck, but actually I think I want to open a restaurant. Can you help me figure out if that's the right move, like the way they work so intimately with people, is something I've really come to enjoy hearing about, that I really admire.

Pete Upton:

And of the small businesses that you've interviewed so far in this series. Do you have a favorite?

Elyse Wild:

Oh, I they're kind of all my favorite for different reasons, but I have to say the first one, our first episode, which was about a older couple in Montana that owns a cafe. It's called The Big Sky Cafe is off reservation, what's near the Blackfeet reservation in Montana, really, really small town, and the Big Sky Cafe is one of two sit down restaurants in the whole town, and it's become like a gathering place for the community. And I really loved interviewing the couple that owns the cafe and the native CDFI staff members who help them make it happen. They're successful, you know, they're able to make an income for themselves and support their family. But it's also like a place that is really important to the community, like, you know, people go, you know, after football games, teams go and, you know, have dinner. There people, the same people come and have coffee every morning. So that, to me, was like, Yes, this is, like a bottom line. This is really great for this family's financial bottom line, but to hear about how important it was for the community was was really cool. And the last episode we did, which is about Pacific Northwest Tribal lending and a one of their clients, who is a young dad. He's got four kids and five on the way, and he's a commercial fisherman. He's been fishing on the Salish Sea his entire life, and last year, they helped him buy his very own boat, a pew. And I don't know a lot about boats, but, you know, big boat, it's safe that he can take on the water all season, which has smaller boats, he couldn't do that, and the ability to do that, to have a boat that you could take out the entire fishing season, big enough that he could bring staff out with him, he's quadrupled his income. And you know, this is a guy that grew up in and out of foster homes, and, you know, grew up in poverty. And that, to me, was really like, you know, I don't know that to me is, I think, is like the pinnacle of a native CDFI story where, you know, help someone break the cycle of generational poverty, and now he's able to raise his family on a six figure income, and that that I found that one to be really moving.

Pete Upton:

That is an inspiration to see really what we do is we uplift and we give opportunities to Native Americans and giving everybody an opportunity to succeed. So yeah, that's really wonderful.

Elyse Wild:

Yeah, I love that one. I would love to talk about how strengthening Native-owned businesses relates to tribal sovereignty. Can you talk a little bit about the connection there.

Pete Upton:

To me, you know, it comes back down to economic self sufficiency. You know, tribal sovereignty fundamentally includes the ability to govern and manage the tribe's own fairs and including its economic development. But you know, on the same token as Native Americans, it just to me, it really strengthens that statement there, because as a small business owner, it just gives a small business owner the opportunity to really become economic self sufficient, and and economically self sufficient, and to govern, you know, to a certain degree, govern their own affairs when it comes to small business ownership. And then the other thing, It just strengthens the native owned businesses. Helps the tribes build self sufficiency by reducing reliance on external sources of income, such as federal grants funds and then just reinforcing their autonomy. And I think the other thing that it does is the job creation and community development, because the two go hand in hand. Native owned businesses provide jobs within tribal communities, allowing economic empowerment for their tribal members, and a stronger local economy directly supports sovereignty by enabling the tribes to make decisions that are best for their people, independent of any outside influences. So many times, even on a national level, we get funding from philanthropy, and there's so many strings attached to it that we have to utilize those funds under their terms, which I understand. But again, it would be nice to have independent, be able to make a decision independently on how you want to utilize economic empowerment for your community. And I think the other thing that it does, too is just cultural preservation. You know, many native owned businesses are rooted in cultural values and practices like traditional, you know, crafts, agriculture, energy projects and strengthen these businesses help preserve and promote a cultural heritage within the core of the tribal identity and sovereignty. So I think that really, to me, I place a great emphasis on supporting our tribal artists, because they are really the foundation that really is connecting and keeping us grounded as native communities. Because I think if we lose that art and that culture, we have lost a lot, so you'll always be see me peed up and really advocating for our Native artists. And then I think the other thing, you know, depending on how the tribe is structured, but you know, tax revenue successful native owned businesses contributed their tribal economy. You know, through taxation, which can be reinvested in infrastructure, healthcare, education, a number of opportunities, when, when we're talking about taxation, and then, you know, just through partnerships and influence, for me, you know, strong native owned businesses can forge partnerships with other businesses and governments, positioning tribes to be key stakeholders in the region and in the national economies. So there's a number power of a native owned business and sovereignty. I mean, it the list could go on and on, but it's so important that we keep developing native owned businesses and tribally owned businesses as well. So let's talk about partnerships with non native institutions. A couple episodes ago, we talked about ncns partnership with Wells Fargo. How can partnerships between native CDFIs and non native institutions strengthen the role of native CDFIs, the power of a Wells Fargo or a strong partner of philanthropy, you know, such as the Northwest Area Foundation, you know, that is really the core of building the native CDFIs foundation. I always refer to what we do as a pyramid, and at the top of the pyramid, on a daily basis, at the very top of it, the most important thing to me is our native citizens. But I have to flip that pyramid upside down. And if you look at an upside down pyramid, the widest point is at the base. And to me, strong partners like Wells, Fargo, Northwest Area Foundation, you know, JP Morgan, the list could go on and on, but those powerful investors of in philanthropy and grants to native CDFIs build a foundation, and without that foundational support, native CDFIs operate on a very, very thin line, and without them providing the capital to develop programs to expand our small business owners, to expand home ownership, or just to expand the programs that we offer, it just it would be a great challenge to operate if we didn't have that support, and especially for, you know, the native CDFI network and our native CDFIs on a local basis, that philanthropy support, it's a must. We have to have it. And we're here in Maine this week, visiting with a number of philanthropy national organizations that provide grants, and really what we have here is an opportunity to be have a seat at the table to develop their programs and make the programs most successful it can be by providing them input and explaining to them the the way these programs should be designed to make it the most flexible for native CDFIs to operate, because the more flexibility that we have, the greater impact we're going to be able to have on our communities. Awesome. P, I have one last question for you. This is a little off the cuff, but if there's someone listening, if there is a tribal citizen listening, they have an idea to start a business, and they're hesitant or they're scared. What advice would you give them? I would give them the advice to call their local native CDFI and set up a meeting. I had a call like that yesterday. Give you an example, and I had a community member, you know, reach out to me, and they had an idea, and we listened to those ideas all the time, and your native CDFI, they're going to guide you through the process of developing that idea, and you can have the confidence that you're not going to share your idea with anyone, and You will be able to develop that idea of business plan, maybe a feasibility study, a strategic plan, in an action plan, and then they'll also help you with a capitalization plan on how you're going to capitalize that particular business. But if you have an idea or a dream, you know, don't sit on it. You know, take action today and call your local native CDFI because that's what they're there to do, is to listen to these ideas and Native CDFIs, they never say no. They'll always say, you know that if you're maybe you're not ready yet, because we need to develop all these plans, but they're going to be with you step by step. I've never talked to a client of a native CDFI or small business owner ... no one has ever regretted doing it. No one has ever regretted taking this step to do it. So no, that's my two cents about that. Thank you for listening. Difference makers. 2.0 is a production of the native CDFI network and Tribal Business News. See you next time.